The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Percy]

Replacing in, will re-read asap!

[Percy]

OK guys, sorry for taking so long. At the moment I've read to the end of Day 1, and thought I should post something. I'll try my best to read as fast as I can, and I will definitely be done within a week.

Pyromaniac

Offer to drink seems designed to fail
Scum read from case on Naomi. Opportunistic.
No defence offered when attacked; defended the awesomeness of the decanter discussion (oh god reading that was terrible) but didn't want to talk about it after it was over.

Shadow Knight

Brought up No Lynch
Fairly ineffectual

populartajo

"Xtomx is probably town"
Little content generated

Lamont_Cranston

Bizarre attitude to hohum early D1
Dodges Steph's calls for him to drink it, seems very defensive about it.
His attitude towards the drink is bizarre. I don't like it at all. He also reads Pyro favourably in 683, and others were far more scummy imo.
Terrible defence to Amished's case, e.g. 748
775 looks bad, given X's flip
Calls for counterclaim with Naomi

Stephoscope

Townish read, though the Replacement makes some good points about her voting strategy.

Devestation

Opportunistic L_C vote?
Why vote L_C and then tell him not to let the "time bomb" go off?
Major scumread.

zwetschenwasser

zwet uses meta argument against Sironigous. Unpersuasive.

NuevaVida

Self-votes
"Like I said I am willing to take this potion. I hope it helps town" - scummy as hell
Possible n00b

Amished

Townie points for case against L_C and well thought out posts
Claimed doc


From Day 1, I have scumreads on Pyromaniac, L_C, Devestation and NuevaVida.
Want to hear more from populartajo and ShadowKnight.


Question to help my re-read: It seems from OP that Xtomx flipped scum. Was he sole scum, or possible buddies?

Also, is there any particular question anyone wants to direct at me as Sironigous' replacement?

*gets back to reading*

[Percy]

OK, just saw we're close to a lynch.

I would prefer if everyone waited for me. I will have the re-read done by Monday.

[Percy]

Wow, that was a long game. Here are my notes from my re-read.

Pyromaniac Day 1

Offer to drink seems designed to fail
Scum read from case on Naomi. Opportunistic.
No defence offered when attacked; defended the awesomeness of the decanter discussion (oh god reading that was terrible) but didn't want to talk about it after it was over.

Pyromaniac Day 2

Still scumvibing. In general posts a small amount, and his pushing of the Naomi wagon doesn't read town to me.

Regarding Page (Yes, Page) 57:

Pyro, you called Shadow lurker scum. Now, he''s been replaced, yet you didn''t mention this after the replacement got in. Why''s this?
Also, why did you vote Setael after you realised she didn''t replace Shadow?

Interesting questions. Poorly answered.
I find full lists of suspicions to be a fairly anti-town move. It's very useful for scum to decide on NKs. Pyro encourages this, and with especially unclear and easy to cheat "out of ten" lists.
Very scummy pseudo-hammer of Devestation. For no reason I can see, Devestation earns a 3/10 on Pyro's list. Then he hammered, quite a long time later. Looking back, he votes Dev for vigging in 1350, and then without anyone else posting puts his vote on sironigous instead.
Advocates speedlynching before deadline. However, jumps in on Steph for nebulous reasons.
Do not like his reaction to Setael's case on dramonic, at all. Very defensive.

Pyromaniac Day 3

zwet seems like town zwet, not that I have ever played a game with him.

Add that to the scummy post list.
Don't like his attitude towards the Setael post-match-claim wagon.

Pyromaniac Day 4

Jester speculation, wtf.

Conclusion: I think Pyro is probably scum. I'd be happy with his lynch. I also think he's been getting less attention than he should have been.

Shadow Knight Day 1

Brought up No Lynch
Fairly ineffectual

dramonic Day 2

"Post analysis of Rock" in 2323 seems a little after-the-fact, so I'm not sold on his towniness like others (such as Dev) seemed to be at the time. However, Rockatansky's reaction wasn't that great either.
Contradictory opinions on Setael. Scummy. Poor response to Amished's case.
Setael makes a good case in 2529.

dramonic Day 3

Really don't like 2667 - jumping on Rock's wagon.
Also don't like the way he unvotes and jumps back on Setael's wagon.

dramonic Day 4

Advocates a Sironigous or a L-K lynch straight up. Not the two obvious candidates, imo.

Conclusion: dramonic is too often playing (what I think is)

tactically

, rather than based of reads and evidence. Probably scum.

populartajo Day 1

"Xtomx is probably town"
Little content generated

populartajo Day 2

Confirmation of Dev's PM points town.

populartajo Day 4

Really fuels the L-K lynch with the doll proposal.

Conclusion: Hasn't been one of the more active players, but I had town vibes before. It occurs to me that if he was given the doll and knows it can't be passed, this would be the best play. IGMEOY.

Lamont_Cranston Day 1

Bizarre attitude to hohum early D1
Dodges Steph's calls for him to drink it, seems very defensive about it.
His attitude towards the drink is bizarre. I don't like it at all. He also reads Pyro favourably in 683, and others were far more scummy imo.
Terrible defence to Amished's case, e.g. 748
775 looks bad, given X's flip
Calls for counterclaim with Naomi

Lamont_Cranston Day 2

L_C's exchange with Amished when he was going "ARRGH" all the time gives me strong pro-town vibes. He lied, but that's a big lie to tell and had (ostensibly) good motives. Makes much more sense than scum-L_C. His post:

I just woke up and I can barely even see but I need to write this right now...

Whoever visited me last night (if you haven't already claimed), for obvious reasons, DON'T CLAIM.

Apparently I was supposed die but someone visited me last night and touched the shell. I felt a healing light and now the shell is back to warm to the touch.

...makes me not willing to completely take him off my radar. This could have been horribly misleading information down the track.
1889 is fucking impossible to read. Don't post fresh content in post tags, ffs.
1894, lulz. Straining my suspension of disbelief.
Eagerness to lynch Nyx is indicative of his desire to clear his name, imo. Also an incredible lack of perspective.
{ooc: I would love to see a game with both L_C and AA23, they'd get on like a house on fire...}

Lamont_Cranston Day 4

Why do people think he has the doll?

Conclusion: I'm happy to assume L_C is town for the moment, but this doll changing alignment is making things very difficult to keep track of.

Stephoscope Day 1

Townish read, though the Replacement makes some good points about her voting strategy.
Apologies for thinking you were a girl. "Steph" is most frequently a shortening of "Stephanie", so perhaps that's why.

Stephoscope Day 2

An OK wagon built, with some scummy behaviour identified well. Turnaround on Naomi is worth noting.
Response in 1906 reads pro-town to me.
Didn't answer the Replacement's case adequately.
Believe her claim. Scum-steph and his scum-buddies would know the Trilby claim to be accurate. If this was a scumclaim and they lynch Naomi before he dies, she looks great. If Steph gets vigged or lynched before that, though, Trilby is almost confirmed - and as unNKable, would be a huge problem later and would have to be endgamed. Too risky to claim this, so I'm going with Steph-protown for now.

Stephoscope Day 3

Reports Pablo correctly.

Conclusion: So town it hurts.

Devestation Day 1

Opportunistic L_C vote?
Why vote L_C and then tell him not to let the "time bomb" go off?
Major scumread.

Devestation Day 2

Poor contribution, IIoA and active lurking at the beginning of the day.
Post 1370 gives me bad vibes. Like he's trying to help build a case on Setael for no good reason I can see.
Agree with Steph's assessment of his play in 1363.
His claim seems pretty solid. He seriously pushed it with quoting his PM, though. My illustrious predecessor already fucking claimed for me, so unless the scum are also sent the vanilla PM, Dev is town.

Devestation Day 3

Cleared by Naomi. (Stupid investigate target, goddamn).

Conclusion: Again, town.

zwetschenwasser Day 1

zwet uses meta argument against Sironigous. Unpersuasive.

zwetschenwasser Day 2

His chainsaw defence of L_C in 1241 seems scummy. Far too quick to think L_C is so town that anyone attacking him must be stupid. zwet forms opinions quickly, but there is a method in the madness. zwet is reading scum.
After Sironigous' (good) suggestion that Naomi be left for a day, zwet immediately tries to break it up. More scumpoints for zwet.

There are very few powerroles in this game...

*facepalm*
This is just a stupid post. How could either zwet-town or zwet-scum know anything like this? But doing disruptively stupid things is something I can believe of scum-zwet.
1686 he does it again
2281 seals the deal for me. zwet is scum.

zwetschenwasser Day 3

3009 - "I'm of the opinion that Stephoscope and Setael are the same alignment." Wonder why that is. Again with the useless, mildly disruptive posts.
Votes Amished, then backs off without unvoting. Absolutely bizarre.
Votes Light-Kun fairly early on. No good reasons stated, and it wasn't a hammer. Very uncharacteristic.
Claims townie.

Conclusion: Scum. Need to lynch asap.

NuevaVida Day 1

Self-votes
"Like I said I am willing to take this potion. I hope it helps town" - scummy as hell
Possible n00b

Rockatansky Day 2

Fairly null at the beginning
1608 made me laugh
Poor response to dramonic case

Light-kun Day 4

Aside from his refusal to claim, I haven't found him scummy. I think the Rockatansky case was overstated to begin with, and I've got to say that I'm really not seeing the Light-kun case today.

Since I don't have the doll, I'll

give the doll to Light-kun

Conclusion: populartajo's forcing of Light-kun into this position was not cool. It seems a little bizarre that you could give away an item that changed your Win Condition, and I'm just not buying the case. There is no way I'm voting for him right now. I'm open to cases, as it's entirely possible I've missed something, but this wagon is scummy and not worth my time.

Amished Day 1

Townie points for case against L_C and well thought out posts
Claimed doc

Amished Day 2

Claim seems confirmed
I am very glad Amished is town - level-headed and sensible posts abound

Conclusion: I wish Amished was around more often. Lurking sucks. Oh yeah, he's town.

Setael Day 1

Fairly null read, though some analysis that I agree with.

Setael Day 2

Don't like Devesation's case against her. Also, her "slip" was nothing of the sort.
2529 is an excellent summation against dramonic. Town vibes.

Setael Day 3

lol@2751. Also, continued townvibes.

The matches are not transferable. I have to keep them and I must be alive at end game for a town win. If I'm not alive at endgame the best the town can get is a draw. The mod also confirmed that the scum do not need the matches to win.

I believed this when I saw it, given how Pablo reacted the day before.

Setael Day 4

Cleared by Steph.

Conclusion: Town. Yes, perhaps her WC might change, but in terms of non-SK-scum, Setael is not one of them.

ZazieR Day 2

Overall a very aggressive vibe. I particularly dislike her attitude towards Naomi, as well as Steph.

ZazieR Day 3

Still aggressive. Still not sure what to make of it. Signs of tunnelling on Steph, which is usually a towntell for me.
Naomi vote in 2874 threw me.
Also, her unvoting of Set doesn't read pro-town.

Conclusion: Hard to say one way or another. I'd like to see more of her and maybe do an ISO on her, but not tonight.

@Mod: Impressive catch on Pablo.

OK, so here's most lynchy through to least lynchy:

{zwetschenwasser}
{dramonic, Pyromaniac}
{populartajo}
{ZazieR, Light-kun}
{L_C, Devestation}
{Steph, Amished, Setael}

Vote: zwetschenwasser

*collapses*

[Percy]

@Pyro: You

did

vote to vig Deves, after the wagon had already pretty much reached its conclusion, with very little reasoning.

@dramonic: Sometimes voting for someone randomly and starting a wagon is good town tactical play. However, I get the strong impression that your voting and discussion is designed to eliminate certain players from consideration (such as today), or focus on a player for poorly developed reasons (such as your "case" against Rock, which seemed to emerge after you had been prodded for one).

@zwet: Yes? Is that a bad thing? Also, that's not the only reason, nice try though.
I don't understand the point of your post, except to misrepresent the case I have made against you by oversimplifying it.

Looking at the reactions of these three players, I'm more certain of my scumreads on each of them. When I have a little more time (today or tomorrow) I'll collect my thoughts and quotes on each and do some meticulous scumhunting.

[Percy]

So why did you find it necessary to vote?

[Percy]

I didnt fuel the Light kun lynch with my doll plan. I was clear enough that the plan for the day was to give the doll to the lynch of the day, didnt matter which player.

Yes, but now it seems like L-K's lynch is a foregone conclusion. If we decide not to lynch him, do we get him to pass it to someone else? Is that even a good idea?

I'm concerned that the doll can't be passed, and that L-K will be lynched for no other reason than we're hoping to kill the doll.

Also, I would appreciate it if those voting L-K would summarise what they found scummy about him or his predecessor.

L-K not claiming is tricky. @L-K: can you at least let us know if your role is confirmable in some way? Also, please clarify your "suggestion" in 3494, and why you think dramonic has a good reason to be voting you.

I didn't. I voted because I was still hoping to lynch that day (foolish me).

Hmmm...
See, you're artfully dodging the question here. You stated that Devestation would be vigged upon deadline

without

your contribution, but you wanted to contribute to

make it happen

. One of these things is untrue.
My issues are the lack of a case and your abandonment of your other convictions (such as preferring Steph) for a vote that you really didn't believe in.

[Percy]

I find it interesting that after essentially saying "The L-K case has no legs, and there is scum all over it, someone please give me a case to look at" we've had posts from dramonic (who started the wagon), L_C and zwet (early riders, though zwet jumped off a bit for some pyro distancing), populartajo (who joined later) and Pyromaniac (who wanted to hammer before I could finish my read), and only one has tried to explain the case.

Rock gave me very bad vibes with his disruptive, anti-town posts and I'm not finding that LK has changed this feeling.

So the case is "bad vibes from the guy L_K is replacing".

Everyone else on the wagon who didn't clarify the case needs to (1) say why they didn't think it was worth mentioning in the first place and (2) tell me something more compelling than this weak crap.

ISO read of Rockatansky:
His response to dramonic's case was bad, but I think dramonic's attack in the first place was pretty weak.
His vig vote on Dev was without any reason I could see. I don't like this at all.
Doesn't like L_C, which (though understandable given the scumtells he's racked up so far) strikes me as a little odd, possibly forced.

He's certainly a player to watch, and the refusal to RC

must

yield results

soon

. I'd also like for him to explain this "plan" of his, because it's not clear to me what he is proposing.

There are far stronger lynch candidates today. They are zwet, dramonic, and Pyro.

@L_C: Of those who have been confirmed or semi-confirmed as town, who do you think are still confirmed in spite of the doll complication?

I would like his [my] opinion on:

1) The chances of scum making the excellent NK analysis that you [Zazier] did at the beginning of this day

2) Your [ZazieR's] extreme PM rolefishing expedition

(Please address questions to me, I almost missed this)
1) I would say that scum-worried-about-SK and town-worried-about-anyscum could both produce this analysis. Not a scumtell.
2) This is what you said on the matter:

I'm sorry but Zaze has earned the benefit of the doubt with her hard work at scum hunting; I'm just very sick and tired of her obsession with role PM's & power roles. I think it is likely she is scum engaging in rolefishing while pretending to believe there are no PR's AND advocating the lynch of a town PR. But again, she has earned the benefit of the doubt.

I don't like how much you're wringing your hands here.

But to answer your question, I think scum faced with a confirmed self-protecting doc and an unNKable powerrole cleared by a cop may be tempted to do something about it. Her arguments don't make much sense, either - saying Amished may be scum/vanilla begs the "what happened to hohum N1" question, for example, and claiming

three incredibly powerful PRs

with

confirmable actions

would be an incredibly gutsy and probably fatal scum move. Desperate scum or tilted town are the ways I can read ZazieR, but I'll have to see more of her "live" (so to speak) before I can make up my mind.

[Percy]

YES WE LYNCHED SOMEBODY

Given that there was a lynch on Day 3, this comment seems out of place.

Note that the "giving the doll to Light-Kun" failed. We still have to worry about alignments.

populartajo was the first to suggest giving the doll to people, so may very well be the one with a changed alignment.

dramonic is a good guy. I take back everything I said about him.

As the latest result, this means one of two things: Either Stephoscope received the doll and is now on a scumteam with dramonic, or dramonic is innocent.

For the record, the hash checks out.

Sajin died AGAIN. Ugh.

"This sucks". Scummy.

As the town drags Sajin's body out to the yard for burial, you find a box of matches under his collapsed corpse. Every one of them is broken, utterly unusable.

My guess is that SOMEBODY has the matches now. And for the record, its not me.

*TURBO FACEPALM*

Sironi cleared himself with the town PM. Zazier cleared hersel the same way.

I can read that into my predecessor's posts, but I'm not going to take that leap with ZazieR. Not until someone produces a quote.

There is no way I'm voting for Pyro.

Why? Oh wait, you backtracked on that and voted for him.

populartajo pointed out L_C's interesting reaction to the vanillager claim:

Wait a minute... You're buying a vanillager claim??

This suggests that L_C did not get the Innocent PM. His defense:

Initially I didn't think to check my role PM and so I didn't catch it like some others did. As soon as it became obvious and I checked it I realized how it is a great rolefishing tool for scum and so I purposely remained silent -- even to the point of ignoring Zazier about it. I refused to cut a profile either way; that way scum wouldn't know for sure if I was vanilla or not.

...is weak, but I get a strong noob vibe from L_C anyway.

Amished, how many protections do you have

FoS: dramonic

.

Tajo's reaction to Lamont seeing logic seems scummy and I'd definitely be ready to vote for him.

QFT. Nice to see him pick up his scumhunting game after this little poke. populartajo reads mild scum.

^wishy washy scum! This ties into his attempt at making himself appear town with the shell shenanigans.

Nice try, zwet.

Vote: zwetschenwasser

.

Lynch now, please.

Pyro should be investigated.

As for L_C and populartajo, I get a town vibe from L_C, and I'm uncertain about populartajo. pop's arguments about the role PM in no way clear him.

[Percy]

For the record Pyro's claim is fail and he is also prob scum. I fail to understand why he didnt protect the claimed power roles and went with Lammont twice (wtf?). We've had some very protown players since day 1 and Lammont wasnt one of them. Also Zazie just brought flavor that incriminates this guy.

Finally zwet claim and such.

QFT, all of this. Pyro's claim seals the deal. He should be investigated tonight. zwet is still the lynch.

[Percy]

Percy's statement "As the latest result, this means one of two things: Either Stephoscope received the doll and is now on a scumteam with dramonic, or dramonic is innocent" ignores the obvious fact that dramonic could have picked up the doll, and would therefore be an anti-town Innocent (assuming that's what the doll does)

If you think this is a valid possibility, and a valid line of investigation, how do you explain your first post of the day?

dramonic is a good guy.

I take back everything I said about him.

[Percy]

What Steph wanted was me to list three possibilities:

1. dramonic is pro-town, as is Steph. Simple cop-clearing.
2. dramonic is anti-town, together with Steph. Simple scum play.
3. dramonic is anti-town because the doll changed his alignment, and Steph (who is good) knows nothing about his alignment because he gets an insane result when targeting the doll-holder. A great deal more complicated.

Now I am willing to seriously consider possibility three. What I found interesting is that Steph would criticise me for not considering this possibility, when it is quite clear that

he hadn't either

.

Summary:

Steph: "Hi, I'm the claimed cop with a good record, and I'm clearing a player, don't worry about him, ignore those things I said when I said he should die".
Percy: "Well, that means either Steph is telling the truth, in which case I'll take her advice and not worry about him; or she's lying, in which case dramonic is probably scum too".
Steph: "What about if I'm good and dramonic is actually scum? Why didn't you consider that?"
Percy: *is confused* "Well, you said he was a good guy."
Steph: "WTFFFFF?!!! I only said he didn't have a scum role, which may very well be independent of whether he's a good guy or not, because there might be doll weirdness! He might not be a good guy! You should have known that!"
Percy: *is getting really confused*

[Percy]

EBWOP: Goddamn, sorry Steph, I know you're a dude. (I got it right most of the time...)

Won't happen again.

[Percy]

How do you know there are 3 scum, L_C?

As far as I'm concerned, Dev is the only one 100% cleared by the townie PM. Everyone else came after him.

Steph's investigation is going to be very important information. I'm going to re-read yesterday and see if I can pick up on anything.

[Percy]

EBWOP: If the scum got the PM, then of course Dev wasn't cleared by it. He was cleared by Steph, but I have my own reservations about that. Need to re-read, and wait for the investigate result.

[Percy]

Whoa, lots of posts.

What stands out in my mind is a few things:

-Steph initially suspected Naomi and tried to get her lynched
-Steph then backed off, claimed cop, and confirmed Naomi's story
-After a little while, Steph voted to lynch Naomi
-Since then, Steph has cleared dramonic, Setael and Pablo.
-Steph did not clear Devestation (my mistake), he was cleared by Naomi.

I want to do some more reading and wait for her result today, but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Steph has played a truly impressive game as fakeclaiming scum. Nowhere near sold on this theory, but it's what I'm working on at the moment.

Also, L_C, can you answer my question? Why are there three scum?

@Mod: can you update the OP?

[Percy]

Lamont, let me remind you of your reasoning yesterday:

Tajo its over. You, Pyro and Zwet are scum.

Scum will unvote townies so what. That doesn't clear you.

I did alot of research much later than the post you quoted of me. Of course Vanillager claims are suspect, that's obvious.

Face it all 3 of you are done.

Your reasoning is often wrong, yet you're certain of this.

How about we wait for the investigation and try to avoid assumptions, and assess this situation properly?

Yes, I am analysing the claims of the town cop. I can see a situation where Steph has been playing a brilliant game as a fakeclaiming cop, and since we're in LyLo, we really need to lynch right or lose. Blindly believing her investigations may very well get us all killed.

You yourself looked into the possibility of the doll changing people's alignments. So what the hell are you doing declaring certain people "cleared"?

[Percy]

EBWOP: FFFUUUUU "blindly believing

HIS

investigations".

Sorry

[Percy]

Lamont, I am not scum.

If I believe your reasoning, then that makes you, populartajo and ZazieR the scum. Otherwise, something is funky with the investigations.

I'm not willing to say the three of you are the scumteam. This situation is not black and white. Repeating it over and over, before we even have the investigation result, won't make it true.

Look at Rule 13. Just look at it. Read it over and over and over.

[Percy]

We need some level heads here to work this out or its auto-win for scum.

He's catching on, folks.


So we have the following cleared by Stephoscope:

-dramonic
-populartajo

We have the following cleared (posthumously) by Naomi:

-Devestation

We have the following cleared from general observation:

-Amished

This leaves:

-Percy
-ZazieR
-Lamont_Cranston
-Stephoscope

Possibilities:

-Stephoscope is scum, playing a brilliant game.
-Stephoscope is naive, making all her results invalid. Anyone (except Dev) could be scum.
-One or both of dramonic, Dev and populartajo are immune to investigations.
-Percy, ZazieR and L_C are the remaining scum.

It occurs to me that, given ZazieR is sitting on two votes, that those voting her should unvote right now. Before you cry "OMG PERCY IS DEFENDING ZAZIE", I think the fact that she has been sitting on two votes and hasn't been quicklynched could be indicative of scum, but I'm not sure.

Swamped right now. Will catch up tomorrow evening.

[Percy]

Lamont, stop making assumptions ffs.
RULE 13. PLEASE READ IT.
For example,

At least we can be sure that Percy, Zazier and L_C are NOT GF's.

What the hell? How do you know there is only one? STOP IT STOP IT FFFFFUUUUUUU


OK, so what I decided to do was throw out the investigate results temporarily and go back to my reads.

Steph is probtown. He did vote to lynch Naomi (which I think was a really, really, REALLY bad move), but I did say this:

Believe

her

his claim. Scum-steph and his scum-buddies would know the Trilby claim to be accurate. If this was a scumclaim and they lynch Naomi before he dies,

s

he looks great. If Steph gets vigged or lynched before that, though, Trilby is almost confirmed - and as unNKable, would be a huge problem later and would have to be endgamed. Too risky to claim this, so I'm going with Steph-protown for now.

I wanted to look at the investigations, because something wasn't right, but I don't think it's because Steph has been lying to us.
Devestation was cleared by Naomi, and I'm still happy to believe that.
I looked at Amished, and his stalling of the Naomi wagon and extension of hohum/Elmo's life is pretty good evidence that he's town. Pyro's flip made me go ? on that front, but it may very well be the case that Amished is a third party or something. Not what we need to deal with today, imo.

Right, so for the moment those three are the ones I will not be voting for. It is possible that one of them got recruited to the scum, or perhaps became an SK. We can deal with that tomorrow, if there is one.

That leaves:
dramonic
populartajo
L_C
ZazieR

L_C is... I don't know. I get some townvibes (e.g. the shell stuff), though I think he's got anti-town attitudes and makes anti-town plays. Antitown != scum, but if he doesn't stop with this "THE GAME IS OVER HAHA I KNOW EVERYTHING" attitude he will get my vote.
I will ask:
@L_C: Humour me here. Forget about the investigations, and just reach for your internal scumdar. Who are the scum?

dramonic gave me scumvibes for the whole game. He asked Amished how many protections he has, I never liked the Rock/L-K case, and he jumped off that case to pursue Setael and jumped back on it after Setael died without pausing for breath. I also don't like the "this sucks" after the zwet lynch, or his behaviour with L_C today.
Now Steph cleared him, and Steph's attitude towards the clearing may have started me on my "maybe Steph is scum" thought train, but I'd like to ask:
@Steph: How much faith do you have in your investigations? Who do you think are scum?
If you had investigated someone else, would you be pushing for a dramonic lynch today?

I didn't like populartajo's suggestion of the 'give the doll to L-K', and I thought that this may indicate that he's the doll-holder. Aside from a bit of a lurk about him, I'm happier with populartajo being town than L_C.

I'm going to give ZazieR a proper read. I don't have the time to do that today, but I'll get around to it.

[Percy]

1. There must be some cognitive dissonance going on in your brain, because you said:

Yes but as I've stated, the difference here is that now we know that you and Zazier and Tajo have the VT role PM. So none of our reasoning is based on that anymore. This is why now we are certain.

Why criticise ZazieR for fishing for a role PM she already has? Therefore, it must be:
2. The only instance of "non-VT PM fishing" I could find was when she asked Steph what her flavour was. Is this what you're referring to? If so, I am unconvinced as to why this should earn my vote, and why it is "severe". It doesn't look great, but neither does dramonic asking for how many protections Amished has. So, yeah, try some evidence and reasoned logic, kthx.

3. More than one scum who is immune to investigations is not absurd.

4.

Tajo could easily be the GF here. But we aren't voting for Tajo. I think anyone that advocates a Tajo vote is scum.

Elaborate, now.

[Percy]

It has been clearly proven now that the scum have the town role PM

Where was this proven?

Zazier has been rolefishing for full page after full page over and over as she drills on the role PM in minute detail. I mean everyone and their brother has seen it. Since you must be scum I would expect you to try and cloud things here too...

Drills on

whose

role PM? Where?
I already mentioned the Steph instance, but I couldn't find it anywhere else. Show me.

Do you not see how that since we have a GF that it only MIGHT be Tajo but that it doesn't HAVE TO BE?? Therefore because only the scum know for certain, ONLY SCUM WILL VOTE FOR TAJO at this stage.

Yes, I can see that it doesn't have to be Tajo. I don't know whether there even is a GF, or if all scum come up vanilla to Steph's investigates, or whatever else may be going on in this game.
Your logic seems to go like this:
1. All the Innocents should believe that Tajo is Innocent
2. Anyone who doesn't is therefore not Innocent.
Is that seriously what you're proposing?

Also, when did I become "confirmed scum"?

[Percy]

She drills on EVRYBODY's role PM over and over specifying the EXACT words used and gauging reactions. That is exactly what she was doing; everybody saw the witch hunt she pulled it went on PAGE AFTER PAGE -- you can't possibly tell me you missed it!

If you actually go and read the game, you'll find that she does talk about the town PM a bit, but you already ruled that out.

So I ask you, once more, kindly and patiently, to show me where she PMfished a PM that was not the vanilla PM, and which was not the brief exchange with Steph about hers that I already pointed out.

Ok so you still posit the naive theory. Where is the flavor to fit that? Also if he is naive we lose anyway.

Where's the flavour in the GF theory? Otherwise, since we're already talking about sanity of investigations, we might as well analyse everything. If you want me to discard a theory, tell me why.
If he is naive, we don't

lose

. Don't be dense. If we can honestly determine that we have no way of knowing if Steph's results are at all accurate, we throw them out and hunt for scum the old fashioned way. It won't be as easy, but it's not lost. Stop overreacting.

Tajo is NOT guaranteed innocent. Tajo is PROBABLY the GF but he is not certainly so; he shares that probability with several other people that have come up innocent. ANYONE THAT VOTES HIM

NOW

IS ACTING ANTI-TOWN. This is clear because there are two players that MUST be scum that cannot be GF (the idea that there is more than one GF is insane). The time to vote Tajo (if we do) is after we get rid of the two confirmed scum:

Percy
Zazier

By process of elimination you are the only two left.

RANDOM capitalization DOES NOT make your argument ANY more CONVINCING.
You're saying that since Tajo has the chance of being a GF, it is worse to vote him? Surely if there was no chance that he was the GF then it would be bad to vote him, but in a LyLo situation where nothing makes sense, tajo is worth a look, as is everyone else.

I don't understand why you're so insistent on narrowing our search based of information you do not have or can't be bothered looking up.


3 votes on ZazieR in LyLo. I don't know how these people are so certain. This lynch is so important, and I can't see the case. *is very frustrated*

[Percy]

I strongly believe Zazie has the highest odds of being scum when compared to the two of you. She has done nothing in the whole game to make me believe otherwise.

So you're voting based on a null read?

Believe what you want but so far he hasn't been saying the right things. He should be CERTAIN of the facts. Instead he is putting on this acting job like things are just so confusing and really need figuring out.

What facts? There are no facts. Conjecture backed up by faulty reasoning and no evidence. These things are not facts.



Just did an ISO of ZazieR. I can see Zazie-scum, but I'm not going to vote until others have had a chance to weigh in.

[Percy]

He should be certain right now that I am scum

Um.... wow. Nice slip, buddy.

Vote: Lamont_Cranston

I'm no longer willing to entertain the notion that you're just pumped up on self-congratulatory, tunnel-visioned craziness.

Also, dramonic, I can't quickhammer. She's at L-2, not L-1.

If Percy was town, he'd know Zaz is scum and hammer, since if he's town Zazie and Lamont have got to be scum.

Wanting to think things through is not a scumtell, ffs.

[Percy]

The "lack of hammer" is something to consider... I doubt that several players have even checked the thread, though, it's really only the five of us at the moment. Not only that, but it's a WIFOM sandwich - scum could already be on the wagon, etc. etc.

@L_C: You're telling me that in order to be a good townie, I should be certain that you're scum. Anything else, and that's me being obvscum. What other conclusion do you want me to reach?

You're putting me in an impossible situation. You're refusing to approach this game intelligently and responsibly. You are so convinced that you're right, when in fact, you are horribly wrong. You're trying to beat me into submission and get me to vote ZazieR for flimsy reasons, when the scum probably only need one more mislynch and they've won the game.

My vote stays.

[Percy]

Zazier is a she and therefore its OK to keep your vote on her.

...

[Percy]

OK, so I just re-read the entire game from about Day 3. I can see L_C scum, but I think I got a little tilted with his utter stupidity. I can see ZazieR scum, but her reaction when Dev claimed seems pretty convincing to me. Steph is very town, I get strong vibes. I have no reason to doubt her investigations any more, and at the very least this clears populartajo, for reasons I stated before.

In short, I couldn't find anything convincing, and I'm just very confused. However, I am going to

Unvote

, and float an idea.

Also, after checking the flavour and the wiki again, one thing had me wondered.
When Xtoxm died, it was stated that the bridge was open for 1/3 as he was the body of John DeFoe. The other two parts are the spirit and the mind of John DeFoe.
The spirit is locked up inside of an idol, which is very likely the doll. The only possible exceptions is that it''s just a doll, or it''s the idol, but without the spirit in it.
However, the part of the mind is interesting. The manor contains it. In the game, the mind gets destroyed when the manor is burned down.
So I need to think if scum want to have those matches gone or not.

I want to ask this:
In the Chzo Manor game, who are the bad guys? Can someone clarify who this "Order" is?

Note this:

Story

A cat burglar named Trilby goes to a large mansion called DeFoe Manor, in hopes of an easy score of expensive loot, as the owners had died shortly beforehand. However, Trilby finds himself inexplicably sealed inside the house, along with four other people, who had come to the manor for various reasons of their own.

As the five prisoners seek answers to their predicament within the house, two of them are murdered in two different instances. The killer is found to be Trilby, possessed by the vengeful ghost of the second son of Sir Roderick Defoe, the house's original owner. Sir Roderick blamed his deformed son for causing his wife's death and chained him to a wall in the basement, regularly abusing and neglecting the boy (which Trilby speculates to have resulted in mental retardation and violent insanity.) Fifteen years later, Sir Roderick severely beat his son with an African wooden idol. His other son, Matthew, attempted to help his twin brother, but John (a name given by Trilby to the younger DeFoe for convenience) murdered both his brother and his father with a machete before dying of his own injuries.

John's ghost still haunts the mansion within the tribal idol which killed him, possessing anyone who touches it and murdering anyone he encounters, wearing same blacksmith's apron and welding mask he did when he killed his father and brother.

Trilby and the other two survivors perform a magic ritual to rid the house of the John's ghost;

they are able to force John's spirit into his remains and kill him. John's body falls into a fire and catches the house alight, Trilby and the other two escape before the house burns down

. Trilby allows the other survivors to believe he died in the fire so as to avoid the inevitable police interest and assumes that John DeFoe is finally at rest.

There is only one bad guy faction. I think the "POTENTIAL LYLO" is a mod mindfuck, and it's entirely possible that we have only one scum faction, perhaps only one scum.

This gets rid of the "Innocent role PM" issue. It gets rid of why everyone is showing up Innocent to investigates and lynches. I think it's a theory worth considering.

I advocate a massclaim.

[Percy]

Flavour analysis:

As night fell in the halls of the Manor, a dark force awoke, and cast off the skin of the poor unfortunate he had possessed prior to entering.

Standing fully 8 feet tall, the pale, faceless being raised his arms, and summoned a spear with a cruel, hooked blade

, before stalking down the corridor, towards the room of the one who called himself "The Replacement".

The creature knocked on the door softly. "W-w-who is it?" called The Replacement.
The next knock burst the door wide open, splinters flying. The spear flew through the gap, impaling The Replacement through the heart. As the world went dark, he saw the creature walk up to him, felt it tear him in half...and then peace.

On the other side of the manor, the oldest resident cast off the mantle of youth under which he had disguised himself during the day, and dragged his rotting bones to find the one he thought threatened his home.

Sajin stood no chance, as the wraith hacked him apart with a massive machete

, he head cleaved in two, his chest torn apart by the vicious steel.

So we had 2 NKs on the first night. One perpetrated by a thing with a spear, another by a wraith with a massive machete.

the second night had fallen upon the Manor, and

the creature that slew The Replacement once again took to the corridors, hunting a very specific prey

. As it arrived at Xtoxm's room, it found the door wide open, and a trail of bone-dust leading away into the east wing of the building.

Stalking down the corridor,

clawed spear in hand

, the creature followed the trail all the way to the room where Sajin's corpse had been found. Hearing a scuttling behind, it span to face the grinning wraith who had mutilated Sajin, parrying the machete it wielded with ease.

If the Body of John DeFoe had had any emotion but rage left in it, it might have screamed as the spear impaled it through

the tattered blacksmith's apron

that held it's decomposing body together. With no more effort than a father lifting a new-born baby, the pale servant of Chzo carried the second son of Roderick DeFoe to the fire in the meeting hall, and forced it in,

destroying the wraith's body

.

When the remnants of the Manor's population awoke, they found the burning bones under a message painted in blood:

"And I saw the Body of the Bridge cast into flame, and the way was

one third open

."

The thing that killed the Replacement, also a wraith, kills Xtomx with a spear. Xtomx was wearing an apron. The bridge becomes a third open.

As night fell, the corridors were oddly silent. Only one lone figure trod the ancient floorboards,

their mind no longer their own for this night

. Reaching into the fire, feeling no pain, they took up

the blackened apron and welding mask

, wiped the soot away to reveal the killing edge of the blade, and shambled to Elmo's room. The poor fellow... he was already sickly, he never stood a chance.

Apron and mask again - seems like a different kill from the group that killed Xtomx. However, now that XtomX has died, there is mention of their "mind no longer their own" - recruitment?

Sajin, Innocent, impaled with a claw spear and guts torn out by hand, Day 5

Apologies for the lateness and lack of flavour. Flavour will be added tomorrow...

Spear again, same as what killed Xtomx.

Stood in the door was

his target, and another of the housemates - now that he thought about it, they had been a little friendly

.
"Hello Lenkmann." said one. "It's been a while."
Pyromaniac swallowed as he realised why this particular one had seemed so familiar: all this time, under the false beard and prosthetics, it had been Canning. Canning, here, in the house. His eyes flicked to the other man.
"Hired muscle, Canning? Bit below Order standards, isn't it?"
Canning smiled, and his mute partner stepped forwards.
"Actually, my dear sir, we have granted you a very special honor."
The Prince shrugged off his skin, and stood fully revealed. His weapon appeared in his hand, and stabbed down once, twice, three times.
Pyromaniac lay, coughing up blood, for a good three hours before his life finally ebbed away.

Two people, one of whom seems to correlate strongly with the person who killed on nights 1, 2 and 4.



From this, I conclude that there is probably more than one scum faction. There is the DeFoe killer, who killed on nights 1 and 3, and this Order faction, who killed on nights 1, 2, 4 and 5. I would not find it outrageous at all to suspect that the DeFoe killer would show up innocent to investigations, given that there seems to be some possession going on.

I would say that, given the drink and the shotgun were almost certainly going to be in the hands of townies and cause them to die, a 17 player game which started with three scum, but would have another recruited later, sounds perfectly reasonable. I think that "POTENTIAL LYLO" may very well be a red herring.

Also this:

N1- Protected zwet. (changed at the last minute. didn't like amished assuming that there would be another doc) N2 protected lamont. you will see me saying that lamont should be inspected. N3 Protected Siro. N4 protected Lamont. I hinted that he should be investigated again. My vote for the inspection goes to popultajo or lamont, as one of them is scum.

Pyro's N5 target was a bad guy, just check the flavour. Now who would Pyro have protected last night? Perhaps Lamont, as Pyro wanted him to be investigated, just like on N4? Tastes like WIFOM, but there's something there.


Someone who knows about this game needs to help me out here. I am nowhere near certain enough of the ZazieR case to be voting for it.


I think a massclaim may still be a good idea.

@Steph: Have you received a result other than "Innocent" since Trilby?

[Percy]

I advanced the theory of there being only one scum group. This seems unlikely, as it would mean the scum killed one of their own.

However, a 2v1v16 game is actually quite plausible, especially if we need to kill the "1" faction more than once and there are dangerous items floating around.

If it's currently 2v1v5, then we could potentially be down to 2v1v2 tomorrow. Whilst it may not be LyLo, it's not looking good at all.

Of course, it could be 3v1v4, in which case it's still not LyLo, but could become a loss for the town after the night kills.


@L_C:

1. Can you put together a case against ZazieR, rather than just insisting that it's obvious and that anyone who doesn't agree with you is obvscum?

(In fact, I'd like dramonic to do the same)

And before you spout your tripe about how I'm obviously scum from the numbers game, I'll point out that yesterday you were insisting that Pyro, zwet and tajo were scum. Also,

rule 13

means you need to use your brain and that this is difficult for the town. Not only is your theory about me being scum not true, but given the nature of this game isn't even

likely

to be true.

2. Can you indicate to me why you think the scum have the Innocent PM?

(I think there is one piece of information from the Innocent PM that I believe has not been made public knowledge)

[Percy]

As I already pointed out, I was never in a position to hammer.

I think lynching someone before they get a chance to talk is always, always a bad idea.

Spin it into a scumtell if you want. It's not.

[Percy]

No.

The most votes ZazieR ever got to was 3. She was never at L-1, because with 8 players, 5 is a lynch.

[Percy]

Lamont, dramonic has already retracted that post.

Your record is not good, don't appeal to it.

You've already been saying that the only way for me to be a good townie is to say you're scum. That is, if I had been agreeing with you from the start and saying "Lamont is obviously scum!", that would make you more likely to agree with me and accept the fact that I'm town.

There are only two conclusions to draw from this:

1. You are an Innocent and, without even realising, acknowledging a huge flaw in your analysis of the situation.
2. You are scum, and slipped big time.

---

I don't see why the role PM is a red herring. As far as I can tell, Dev quoted it, populartajo unvoted, and ZazieR was the first person to confirm most of the details. Just because ZazieR-scum makes sense in you're little world doesn't make it obvious, unavoidable fact.

If it's true that the scum have the role PM, I would be more inclined to believe you

and

ZazieR are scum. Your reaction to Dev's claim is not good, at all. Whether you-as-scum have it, or you-as-town have it, it's important to note that ZazieR prompts you multiple times to look at your PM. Apparently you just forgot to look at it, and then never touched the subject again for "tactical" reasons.

The most interesting thing from that exchange is that ZazieR did not jump on you, and essentially let you not address the issue. Scum coaching other scum is a great fit for that back-and-forth.




As far as I'm concerned, the assumption that the scum have the role PM is not an irresistible conclusion. Not yet. Perhaps after this:

@L_C: If the scum have the role PM, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind providing me with the few details that haven't already been publicly aired. If you can, I'll throw out this theory. If not, why not?

[Percy]

1) He didn't retract the portion of the post I referenced.

Um, yes he did.

2) My record is perfect, yours however is the opposite.

Want me to remind you of your reads yesterday?

If you are town you should of been calling me and Zazier scum without question but you didn't and that is because you are scum. It is you who have slipped.

So you're scum?

4) The town role PM is useless and unnecessary to determine the scum...
5) I don't care if the scum have the town role PM or not. At this point it is 100% irrelevant and only a distraction to the discussion

Then if it's irrelevant, you won't mind answering this:

@L_C: If the scum have the role PM, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind providing me with the few details that haven't already been publicly aired.

ZazieR already pointed to the inconsistencies when Dev claimed. Clear them up for me, and we can dispose of the role PM speculation (make sure you clear your post with the mod first).

[Percy]

My exchange is going somewhere, I think.

Lamont firstly said that, according to his theories, I should believe him to be scum. To believe anything else is scummy. This behaviour from someone is kind of hard to ignore. The idea that I should be convinced he's scum means that either his theories are crap, or that he's scum.

Now I've given him a chance to use information he believes to be

completely irrelevant

to clear himself. He has claimed to have received the Innocent role PM, but that he did not read it when Dev initially claimed, for tactical reasons, to explain his ignorance of its content at the time.

As I said before, and as ZazieR pointed out way back when Dev claimed, there were some inconsistencies with what Dev said - clearly, it was a paraphrase, but he got the jist of it down enough to convince everyone, myself included, that he received the Innocent PM.

Now I'm asking L_C to clear up those inconsistencies from his own role PM. He's refusing to do so, using bluff and bluster to try and make this issue irrelevant. I think it's highly relevant.

If he truly believes that the Innocent role PM is irrelevant and that everyone (except the non-Innocent town-aligned players, presumably, but he has claimed Innocent) has access to the information I'm asking for, then why won't he address its content?

The only conclusion I can reach at this time is that he is not Innocent, hasn't received the Innocent PM, and can't answer my question.

Vote: Lamont_Cranston

[Percy]

@L_C: You don't have the Innocent Role PM, do you?

Wow, I'm actually surprised at how well that worked.

[Percy]

I mean if he was town he would just be voting me as obv-scum

I am voting you. You lied about your claim. You are obv-scum.

[Percy]

Lamont, you said you had the Innocent Role PM, but you don't.

The inconsistencies in Dev's claim have already been pointed out. All I've asked you to do is clear them up for us. You can't. So you die.


Also, for the record, wanting to think things through and get a handle of the situation in LyLo is the

worst scumtell ever

.

@Mod: Please prod ZazieR.

Also, could you update the OP with kill/lynch results? Thanks.

[Percy]

OK, this is what I've got, assuming NL and max possible kills.

5v3 -> 4v3 (perhaps better, as long as Steph's target doesn't get NKed)
4v3v1 -> 2v3v1 (virtually unwinnable for town), 3v2v1 (about the same degree of badness as today, and possibly without an investigation if Steph's target is NKed), 3v3v0 (game over man, game over), 4v2v1 (crosskills ftw).
5v2v1 -> 3v2v1 (still winnable, same reservations as above), 4v1v1 (one for one trade = good), 4v2v0 (somewhat less good, but still good), 5v1v0 (best ever).

Assuming max kills, L_C town+lynch, things don't look nearly as good.

I'm 99.99999% certain that L_C is scum, having lied about receiving the Innocent PM and playing like panicky scum all day. There is, however, a nagging (0.000001%) voice in my head saying that this is too good to be true.

Unvote

. I have to think on this some more.

[Percy]

EBWOP:

4v3v1 -> 2v3v1 (virtually unwinnable for town), 3v2v1 (about the same degree of badness as today, and possibly without an investigation if Steph's target is NKed), 3v3v0 (game over man, game over), 4v2v1 (crosskills ftw).

Final possibility should read 4v2v0.

[Percy]

I've been in many games where one townie makes an incorrect snap decision in LyLo and it costs the town the game. I wanted to explore all the possibilities, and see if I could come up with a solid case (rather than just trying to play the numbers game).

L_C, however, said that the game was already over. With L_C, ZazieR and myself the only "unconfirmed" players, he maintained that I should have been screaming for his lynch from the beginning of the day, and calling him obvscum. I don't understand this from a townie's point of view - if you think the prevailing theory requires you to be scum, then there's something wrong with the theory. Either that, or you're scum.

He further criticised me for "confusing" things, such as exploring the possibility that Steph is naive or scum. Whilst I have come to the conclusion that Steph is almost certainly neither of those things, I think it was worth considering.

He then started claiming that it was "proven" that the scum have the Innocent Role PM, and that discussion of the PM was not something anyone should be doing. I recalled from my re-read just how poorly L_C reacted to Dev's claim, and how he later claimed that the reason he hadn't talked about it since was for tactical reasons. I gave him an opportunity to clear himself using the Innocent Role PM (which he claimed to have received) by clearing up the inconsistencies in Dev's claim.

I will post exactly what L_C has failed to post, if that's what the town wants.

L_C has simply ignored me and told me I'm distracting everybody, when in truth it has been L_C himself who has been doing the distracting.

As I outlined above, there is a chance that NL will cost us the game - for example, if it's 4v3v1 and there are two kills, one of them on a townie and one of them on the "1" faction, the game is toast.

I think my case is strong enough, so that lynching L_C is comparably risky with going NL. I'll do a bit more meditating on this situation and place my vote in my next post.

[Percy]

I'll post it tomorrow (unless there are objections, but I think it's the best play right now).

[Percy]

Dev's claim:

The general gist of it is "your innocent, you really shouldnt be here but you are, get rid of the evil, you have a vote and your brains".

As ZazieR already pointed out,

If he's an Innocent, it should say an Innocent and not "you're innocent" and the 'brain' is called differently. All the other things fit with my flavor.

The first part of the sentence is true. There is no "brain", but there is "wits".

Anyone who has read the role PM would know this. I can't see how L_C is town. 3924 is a good summation of my case.

L_C is scum, and we lynch scum. Trying to outguess the mod here is asking for trouble, since there's so much we don't know. NL has no guarantee of making things any better, and could cost us the game. Things are still confusing as all hell, but I think it's time to do something rather than hope things will be better tomorrow.

Vote: Lamont_Cranston

.

[Percy]

Dev, can you confirm that my PM claim was accurate?

Other than that, I'm waiting on the investigate result.

[Percy]

OK, here's what we know as fact. Analysis to follow.

Innocent PM

Dev and I have the Innocent PM.
Tajo (with 99% certainty) and ZazieR have the Innocent PM - populartajo because of his reaction to Dev's claim (this could have been faked, but the odds are very low for this gambit imo), and ZazieR for pointing out the inconsistencies.

Cop clears

Devestation was cleared posthumously by Naomi.
populartajo was cleared by Steph.

Other information

Amished has claimed at least three protections, at least from yesterday.
Steph has yet to translate her hash on pop's investigation yesterday.
Everyone except ZazieR was (effectively) on L_C's wagon yesterday. The wagon was:

Percy
populartajo
Stephoscope
Devestation
Percy unvotes
Percy revotes
dramonic hammers
Amished votes

Analysis

Two PRs and four Innocents. I don't know what to make of that right now.
Steph's play is very town. I'd say she's the player I'm most certain of.
I find it a bit odd that pop only asked for Steph's prod, and not ZazieR's.
ZazieR's afk status is starting to grate on my nerves.

Mod: Please prod ZazieR with an enormous stick

.

I'm going to think some more.

[Percy]

It's an md5 hash, that's not how it works.

Why are you trying to crack it?

[Percy]

Really want to hear from Devestation, ZazieR and Stephoscope.

[Percy]

We need to figure out whether she was muted by the doll.

She flakes. All the time. I wouldn't necessarily put it on the doll, given that she doesn't have it any more.

[Percy]

Wow. Steph, what a fantastic game you've played.

He's lying, of course. I am, as I've always said, an Innocent. I'm the natural choice for a fake guilty result - in fact, I'm only one of two who haven't been cleared, and I'm the active one.

Now he tried as hard as he could to throw some weaksauce at Dev, but the "not shifting" argument was unconvincing. Why try throw crap at Dev? Because my lynch seals the deal for them, and they are saying "trust us, we'll protect you! Dev is obviously the only one left!" so either pop or ZazieR will vote to lynch me, and it's game over.

Not giving out the result until now was also never explained. I already went through my suspicions of Steph, and whilst I was ready to discard them before, turns out I was right.

Based on Amished's post above, with gems like

The shift in the video game made it so that the whole world was more dangerous.

...

I still have some power if the reality does shift and I prevent it. I still have the same powers as I do now if I allow it to just take place, which at this point wouldn't be a terrible thing.

The world becoming more dangerous wouldn't be a terrible thing?

Overall, I say that we get rid of the Prince. Getting rid of a major killing role is huge for us, and only makes us safer.

...which I find hilarious, because it's so poorly focussed - it's not saying "believe Steph", which should be argued, rather than obfuscated. It's saying "The Evil Prince is a character we should lynch, guys!", as if that needed stating. Also,

I shall vote for Percy later tonight after I look through everybody's posting that's still alive (other than Percy, of course).

More trust in Steph, and you're not even going to read my posts. Nice work buddy.

Also, I can't believe I didn't state this before, but a multi-targeting (at least three, at last count!), self-protecting doc in a game WITH ANOTHER DOC is beyond ridiculous.

I'm going to read through this game and try to get my defence ready. Don't lynch me until I've done it.

Preview edit: Oh, Amished has already voted for me. Pop, Dev, Zaz - give me 24 hours.

[Percy]

Going to quote an interesting back-and-forth from yesterday:

Percy's statement "As the latest result, this means one of two things: Either Stephoscope received the doll and is now on a scumteam with dramonic, or dramonic is innocent" ignores the obvious fact that dramonic could have picked up the doll, and would therefore be an anti-town Innocent (assuming that's what the doll does)

If you think this is a valid possibility, and a valid line of investigation, how do you explain your first post of the day?

dramonic is a good guy.

I take back everything I said about him.

WTF? All I can comment on is his role. I'm tempted to vote you right now.

What Steph wanted was me to list three possibilities:

1. dramonic is pro-town, as is Steph. Simple cop-clearing.
2. dramonic is anti-town, together with Steph. Simple scum play.
3. dramonic is anti-town because the doll changed his alignment, and Steph (who is good) knows nothing about his alignment because he gets an insane result when targeting the doll-holder. A great deal more complicated.

Now I am willing to seriously consider possibility three. What I found interesting is that Steph would criticise me for not considering this possibility, when it is quite clear that

he hadn't either

.

Summary:

Steph: "Hi, I'm the claimed cop with a good record, and I'm clearing a player, don't worry about him, ignore those things I said when I said he should die".
Percy: "Well, that means either Steph is telling the truth, in which case I'll take her advice and not worry about him; or she's lying, in which case dramonic is probably scum too".
Steph: "What about if I'm good and dramonic is actually scum? Why didn't you consider that?"
Percy: *is confused* "Well, you said he was a good guy."
Steph: "WTFFFFF?!!! I only said he didn't have a scum role, which may very well be independent of whether he's a good guy or not, because there might be doll weirdness! He might not be a good guy! You should have known that!"
Percy: *is getting really confused*

Whoa, lots of posts.

What stands out in my mind is a few things:

-Steph initially suspected Naomi and tried to get her lynched
-Steph then backed off, claimed cop, and confirmed Naomi's story
-After a little while, Steph voted to lynch Naomi
-Since then, Steph has cleared dramonic, Setael and Pablo.
-Steph did not clear Devestation (my mistake), he was cleared by Naomi.

I want to do some more reading and wait for her result today, but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Steph has played a truly impressive game as fakeclaiming scum. Nowhere near sold on this theory, but it's what I'm working on at the moment.

This exchange got me wondering.
I ended up putting Steph in the "solid town" column, essentially because I couldn't square his defense of an unNKable townie as scum. However, he voted to lynch someone he knew was town, and for information:

Setting aside the fact that I am 100% sure that I am Janine and Naomi is Trilby, I must point out that it's ridiculous to think there'd be no Trilby counterclaim, given that Naomi's roleclaim was so bad and that Amished can apparently protect, and it's ridiculous to think that there'd be a Chzo game without Trilby. Naomi is Trilby, and if we need to lynch her to avoid a Setael lynch then so be it, but it should really be clear that she is absolutely Trilby.

Oh well. She's Trilby, I tell ya, but this should allow us to be more productive and save having to get a replacement.

Unvote
Vote: Naomi

I can't see someone protown doing this. It makes perfect sense for scum, though.

Steph has yet to translate her hash on pop's investigation yesterday.

Why haven't you done this?

But wait, there's more.

Here is his reported hash:

c62a7dc2ea448ee6b41c9e5634cfe8e9

Here is what he claimed it was:

Percy is The Prince, and is Evil aligned. You're very, very welcome!

Here is that sentence in hash:

d9587989df01472c67645a59751b8e11

So, lies. How did you honestly think I wouldn't check?

Vote: Stephoscope

.

[Percy]

The problem with your theory, Steph, is that we have the following:

Amished - Multi-targetting, self-protecting doc.
Steph - Honest, sane cop.
Pyromaniac - doc.
Naomi - unNKable, one-shot cop.
populartajo - Perhaps just innocent, perhaps another town PR

against:

One SK, two scum.

Yes, the SK can jump around a bit, but there are far too many PRs in this game. This game is not meant to be easy for the good guys, but with these PRs I can't see how the town could fail to win. The setup is completely broken if you believe Steph and Amished.

Devestation was cleared by a confirmed innocent, yet Steph has spent a lot of time digging dirt on him. He's cleared populartajo. That leaves me and ZazieR, so why is Steph concentrating on Dev?

There is no LyLo with Amished around. He has three protections, so even if you guys mislynch me today, all Amished has to do is protect himself, Steph, and one other person. Even if he picks wrong, tomorrow is 2v2 and the game is a draw.

So please, everyone who isn't Amished or Steph, ask yourself this. What is more likely - that there would be two cops, one unNKable, two docs, one multi-targetting and self-protecting, and the scum were given the townie PM, or that Steph is lying scum, I'm innocent, and the remaining claimed PRs are actually the scumteam.

[Percy]

Oh well. Nicely played Steph, I'm truly impressed at how well you've played this game - you've maintained your fakeclaim absolutely perfectly. *applauds*

I think Steph is most likely a scum rolecop, and Amished is her buddy. I'm looking forward to reading the mod notes on the game!

Just in case there's a tomorrow, Gogo Team Townie Awesomesauce!

[Percy]

Can't wait for the mod notes.

Pop, how did you know that Devestation wasn't going to be protected by Amished?

Also, Steph, how did you know people's roles?

Very impressive play from Steph especially, very well done.

Thanks KoC, that was a great game.