Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

[Xylthixlm]

One part of it or not you're still admitting to outguessing the mod.

I'm pretty good at it, actually. Particularly mods who have been

corrupted

influenced by playing with the hundreds of roles I've designed.

[Xylthixlm]

It's funny how whenever zwet does something completely stupid and useless, people assume he's town.

[Xylthixlm]

How should he word it, zwet?

[Xylthixlm]

Starbuck, who do you think is scum?

[Xylthixlm]

myk: If Kairyuu is lying, what's his actual role name?

mykonian -1 (Kairyuu)
DeathNote -1 (Gorrad)
Kairyuu -1 (zwetschenwasser)
Zwetchenwasser -1 (Knight of Cydonia)
Not Voting: mykonian, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, xylthixlm, LlamaFluff

And that person is the current L.

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

He claimed "rolecop". There's no inconsistency there.

[Xylthixlm]

He claimed "rolecop". There's no inconsistency there.

He claimed "rolecop" and then explained his ability to be that he can determine if someone is holding a death note.

and I act as a rolecop, and that helps me with looking for a deathnote. zazie didn't have one

I read that as saying that checking for a death note is part of the rolecop ability, not the whole thing.

[Xylthixlm]

He claimed "rolecop". There's no inconsistency there.

He claimed "rolecop" and then explained his ability to be that he can determine if someone is holding a death note.

and I act as a rolecop, and that helps me with looking for a deathnote. zazie didn't have one

I read that as saying that checking for a death note is part of the rolecop ability, not the whole thing.

Even allowing for that, why would he now not be able to know whether or not i have one?

Yeah, that is a good question.

[Xylthixlm]

I think everyone but Starbuck and DeathNote have already claimed.

[Xylthixlm]

It doesn't even matter. I've already been confirmed as a tracker.

I just

literally

slapped my forehead over the stupidity of this statement.

[Xylthixlm]

That claim does smell fake. I was expecting vanilla.

I find it totally disconcerting that scum are openly communicating in thread and we can't lynch them. Well, we could, but I doubt llama would do that if he had a death note.

DeathNote -2 (Kairyuu, Gorrad)
mykonian -1 (Stephoscope)
Kairyuu -1 (zwetschenwasser)
Zwetchenwasser -1 (Knight of Cydonia)
Not Voting: mykonian, Starbuck, DeathNote, xylthixlm, LlamaFluff

What do you mean by close?

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

It's also suspicious that DeathNote made such an obvious fake claim right after llama's appeal to sidoh.

Shit, now I'm WIFOMing myself.

[Xylthixlm]

^ scum

[Xylthixlm]

Yeah. I'm not buying this claim at all.

vote: DeathNote

[Xylthixlm]

UNVOTE:

[Xylthixlm]

unvote

[Xylthixlm]

I'm betting on DeathNote = Sidoh.

[Xylthixlm]

Starbuck is Misa.

DeathNote -2 (Gorrad, Knight of Cydonia)
mykonian -1 (Stephoscope)
Kairyuu -1 (zwetschenwasser)
Not Voting: mykonian, Starbuck, DeathNote, xylthixlm, Kairyuu, Llamafluff

You mean the thirteen day rule?

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

Notice how she appeared right after Llama voted.

Plus there's the whole KoC quicktopic thing.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm mostly going by the fact that Starbuck suddenly appears and tries to dismiss the DeathNote = Sidoh theory, right after LlamaFluff's vote. I was thinking "Huh, so Starbuck is probably Misa... wait, that's what KoC said!"

[Xylthixlm]

So who do

you

think is Misa?

[Xylthixlm]

He could very well be Sidoh, but he could also very well be pro-Kira.

That's obviously leading up to an attempt to get DeathNote lynched anyways.

[Xylthixlm]

Had a brainwave. If zwet is scum then Gorrad is too 100%.

Then why are you voting zwet?

[Xylthixlm]

Had a brainwave. If zwet is scum then Gorrad is too 100%.

Then why are you voting zwet?

Because the causality does not work in reverse. If Gorrad is scum then zwet could be town.

THEN WHY ARE YOU VOTING ZWET?!

[Xylthixlm]

So given two players with linked alignment, you are voting the one you think is

less likely to be scum

.

Do I have that right?

[Xylthixlm]

So given two players with linked alignment, you

are

were voting the one you think is

less likely to be scum

.

Do I have that right?

EBWOP

[Xylthixlm]

If zwet being scum implies Gorrad also being scum but not vice versa, then there must be more possibilities where Gorrad is scum than where zwet is scum, since every possibility where zwet is scum is also a possibility where Gorrad is scum but not vice versa. Therefore Gorrad must be more likely to be scum than zwet.

Or to look at it another way. Assume you think both zwet and Gorrad are likely scum, and want to lynch both unless one is proven town.

If you lynch zwet first...
* If zwet and Gorrad are both town, you lynch two townies.
* If zwet is town and Gorrad is scum, you lynch a townie and a scum.
* If zwet and Gorrad are both scum, you lynch two scum.

If you lynch Gorrad first...
* If zwet and Gorrad are both town, you lynch

one

townie.
* If zwet is town and Gorrad is scum, you lynch a townie and a scum.
* If zwet and Gorrade are both scum, you lynch two scum.

On the other hand, if you don't think they're both scum (you only want to lynch one of them), you should be voting the one who is more likely to be scum. Which is Gorrad.

There is no protown reason to lynch zwet over Gorrad if you really believe that zwet being scum implies Gorrad being scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Well, actually, if you think they're both scum but zwet has a death note and Gorrad doesn't, you should be voting zwet.

But it doesn't sound like that's your reasoning here.

[Xylthixlm]

But if you think zwet is scum, and zwet being scum implies Gorrad being scum 100%, then you should think Gorrad is scum regardless of your read on him!

IIRC I've caught scum using exactly the same bad logic Kairyuu is using here twice, and town making it once.

DeathNote -3 (Gorrad, Knight of Cydonia, Starbuck)
mykonian -1 (Stephoscope)
Kairyuu -1 (zwetschenwasser)
Starbuck -1 (Kairyuu)

Not Voting: mykonian, DeathNote, xylthixlm, Llamafluff

I'm Near.

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

Kairyuu can't refute my logic so he stops arguing. Wonderful.

But if he is wrong about Zwet being scum then that means Gorrad is clear. This is why Zwet would be lynched first.

zwet being town would not clear Gorrad.

[Xylthixlm]

However, the vibes I'm getting off of your initial question post are definitely scummy. Not enough for a vote, but something I will be keeping an eye on.

FoS: Stepho

That post gives me a baaaad feeling.

I find it hilarious that I'm trying to stop the lynch of someone I am reasonably sure is scum of some sort. Definitely liking this mechanic.

Kairyuu is town. Meh.

vote: Starbuck

[Xylthixlm]

We've got what, possibly 3 more scum out there right?

So I'm convinced that at least 2 people out of Gorrad, DeathNote and Xyl are scum, and I'm leaning more towards DeathNote and Xyl being those two.

This doesn't add up unless you include Starbuck in the 3 scum.

[Xylthixlm]

And here I was hoping Steph would come by and point out the scum for us.

Starbuck -3 (Kairyuu, xylthixlm, Knight of Cydonia)
DeathNote -3 (Gorrad, Starbuck)
mykonian -1 (Stephoscope)
Kairyuu -1 (zwetschenwasser)
Not Voting: mykonian, DeathNote, Llamafluff

Near, this is L.

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

Starbuck.

[Xylthixlm]

Someone hammer.

[Xylthixlm]

I hope the scum are going to explain what the hell happened there after the game.

[Xylthixlm]

Grrrrrrrr.

Apparently, the pro-Kira players changed win condition when they got a Death Note, in a way that wasn't written into their original role PM.

I call shenanigans.

[Xylthixlm]

What was the PM sent when a pro-Kira player got a death note? It's not in the mod notes...

[Xylthixlm]

Mildly pissed, will brain dump after I calm down.

[Xylthixlm]

I will also add that I think mykonian had a pretty difficult win condition and it seems strange that an SK (Xyl) can lose due to another faction achieving their non-mutually exclusive win condition.

That's what I'm pissed about.

There was a way for me, LlamaFluff, Sidoh, and pro-Kira to all win (at least according to the rules and role PMs as written)...

[Xylthixlm]

I did read my role PM quite carefully.

You win if you find Light and he is still alive when L, Mello, and Near are no longer in the game, or

if you are the last player alive

.

My win condition wasn't even worded "at the end of the game..." I was endgamed while it was still possible to meet my win condition. I find this extremely unfair.

[Xylthixlm]

Xylthixlm, you assumed falsely that there were no 'game over' triggers. I'm not sure why.

I had seen the pro-Kira win condition. I had seen the rules of death. I had

no

way to even

suspect

that there might be a magic different win condition that appeared when a pro-Kira player got a death note.

[Xylthixlm]

... and even if I

did

know, it would still be totally unfair. I feel like I just lynched a jester and the game ended.

[Xylthixlm]

So let's see if have this straight.

I was a Kira (due to having a death note), so according to the pro-Kira win condition in the role PMs, the pro-Kira were my natural allies. But actually I had to make sure that I killed them all before L, Near, and Mello, otherwise the game would suddenly end and I would lose. And the only way for me to find this out would have been to do a role inspect of someone

I had already inspected on a previous night and gotten a different result

.

Uhhh no. Serial killer is hard enough without secretly making it so that if X, Y and Z die before A, B and C, I suddenly lose. That wasn't a serial killer win condition. That was a

you're-fucked-and-you-don't-know-it-hahahaha

win condition.

[Xylthixlm]

Llama - why did you not want me to use my triple ability? My target last night would have been Xyl.

If you had killed me, Llama would have died, and then there wouldn't have been four people to force nolynch. (Well, if the game hadn't ended due to bastard moddery first.)

[Xylthixlm]

Okay. Here's my take.

I played as well as I could. I thought I knew everyone's role PM. I had a plan that would have guaranteed me the win. I was doing everything right according to what I knew. I even managed to convince the town that I was a miller and another player was a jester, when both of us were really scum. If the game used the usual endgame rules, where the game continues until everyone's win condition is either fulfilled or unfulfillable, I would have won. I actually lost through no fault of my own despite what I consider excellent play. It turned out that another faction had a game-ending win condition that didn't show up to role inspection, so I actually had to play around something that I had no way of knowing existed. That part was pure, 100%, bastard moddery. I'll take my loss, but I am never playing in another game of Phayt's.

[Xylthixlm]

For that reason alone I'm concerned that this game could have been broken apart via massclaim.

The lack of good safeclaims was a big problem, yeah. I got quite frustrated at one point because all the scum were getting caught out on safeclaims. All the pro-Kira had painfully minor characters for safeclaims (President Whatsisname? Really?), and mine was only a little better.

Remember mods: You need to either have unexpected role/alignment pairings, or reserve some of the major characters as safe claims for the scum.

Sorry about killing you, by the way, Vi. I realized after day started that I had fucked up and should have killed someone I was 100% sure wasn't Light.

[Xylthixlm]

And I told you all that I wasn't Misa, but you didn't listen to me.

I was trying to help you get a joint win! And it would have worked if it wasn't for goddamn fucking bastard moddery.

Yes, I am still pissed.

[Xylthixlm]

For the record, the trick with the false quickhammer attempt was my idea.

[Xylthixlm]

The idea behind the setup was cool, but I don't think it was practical to pit scum against its own allies by taking away their inside knowledge.

The scum were totally obvious if you knew what to look for... scum who don't know who their allies are get paralyzed, they're afraid to scumhunt because they might hit an ally.

[Xylthixlm]

The setup was interesting but I think it was marred by some flaws... uninformed scum is very hard to do well, the win conditions were royally screwed up, and then there's the classic blunder of putting every major character and most of the secondary ones into the setup. There was also way too much reliance on certain key roles, which tends to make the setup extremely swingy.

[Xylthixlm]

Oh yes. The trick in the quicktopic with aizawa was inspired by a player in a quicktopic in another game, who accidentally posted using the account for one of his alts and then tried to delete it... such a pity that Knight of Cydonia backed off so fast when Starbuck denied it.

[Xylthixlm]

I disliked the misa serial killer win condition. Not only would she have to make it to LY/LO, but there must have been at least 1 death note still around, L, Near, or Mello must have been still alive unbeknown to her. This seems impossible.

GRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keeping a death note around wasn't hard (I had one, and the only way I'd lose it would be to get lynched, which I wasn't planning on anyways) - but the need to keep at least one of the town's three best power roles around until all other Death Notes were eliminated would have been almost impossible even if I had known about it!