Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3080 (isolation #0) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:38 pm

There's no reason to assume magnus started with a Death Note. In the series, he was given Light's Note, he didn't have one of his own.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3081 (isolation #1) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:40 pm

Gorrad wrote:Did NO ONE stop and think that maybe, just maybe, SSK was the /ONLY/ person whose role mentioned this group? Gods above and below...

Seriously.

Gorrad wrote:What makes me do a double take, though, is that this means Mello is a townie. Geez...well, mod knows best. Such is life. And Death. Note.

Does not follow. Mello could be self-aligned.

Gorrad wrote:I'm going to start off with a nice, solid
Vote: L_C
. You should have died two days ago.

Explain.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3083 (isolation #2) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:43 pm

Hmm... who do I know in this game...

Kmd4390, who is scum?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3086 (isolation #3) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:47 pm

Kairyuu, magnus

died of a heart attack

. If the scum had given him a Death Note, they obviously wouldn't have killed him! Either there's a serial killer with a Note, or magnus was some sort of traitor/ally role and the scum didn't know his alignment. The latter case would fit the flavor - in the series he was recruited by whatever the shinigami other than Ryuk's name was, after Light gave up his Note.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3087 (isolation #4) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:47 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote: Kmd4390, who is scum?
Vi.

Vote Vi

vote Vi

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3092 (isolation #5) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:58 pm

Kairyuu wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Kairyuu, magnus
died of a heart attack
. If the scum had given him a Death Note, they obviously wouldn't have killed him! Either there's a serial killer with a Note, or magnus was some sort of traitor/ally role and the scum didn't know his alignment. The latter case would fit the flavor - in the series he was recruited by whatever the shinigami other than Ryuk's name was, after Light gave up his Note.
One word. Shinigami. There are multiple, and one would assume that most/all of them hold notes. They are not SKs per se, since their win cons are strange, but they are not town aligned. Since he was scum, and killed by a death note, he was 100% guarenteed to have been killed by a Shinigami who still had their note. Following from that, if he
did
have the scum's note, the Shinigami who killed him would have been given the note, and, since no one can hold more than 1 death note, the Shinigami would be forced to give it away. Since Shinigami are unlikely to know the identities of other Shinigami or the scumgroup, especially if myko's comments on the matter are to be believed, the ONLY place where the Shinigami could send the note and know that it wouldn't be destroyed on receipt would be myko, the confirmed Shinigami.

Hmm, you're right. So,

if

he had a note, it's probably with mykonian now.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3093 (isolation #6) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:58 pm

Gelus wrote:
Xylthixlm replaces Sir Tornado.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3108 (isolation #7) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:18 pm

Cool!

... what, he didn't have a Death Note?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3119 (isolation #8) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:56 pm

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3121 (isolation #9) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:13 pm

No scum in their right mind would claim recruiting mason, it's ridiculously easy to disprove.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3127 (isolation #10) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:27 pm

Lamont, why haven't you asked Steph to prove his claim?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3130 (isolation #11) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:40 pm

I repeat. Why haven't you asked Steph to prove his claim?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3133 (isolation #12) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:42 pm

Stephoscope wrote:I am in a group with
Watari and the player I recently invited.

That's two players who should be able to confirm Steph's claim, if it's true.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3136 (isolation #13) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:47 pm

Steph has claimed mason with two other players, and Lamont trying to lynch him without even asking who his mason partners are.

vote: Lamont_Cranston

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Watari is dead.

He's not listed in the first post. Do you have proof one of the modkilled players was Watari?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3173 (isolation #14) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:19 am

unvote

thinking.

Xylthixlm · Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:06 am

Gelus wrote:
With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

Go!

Gelus wrote:
Rules of Death wrote:
At night, you may anonymously give away your Death Note to any player. You may also choose to destroy it.

With a Death Note, you may kill
once per night
. You may choose whether to have the player die immediately or after a certain amount of posts, and in what way. If no specifications are given, the kill defaults to immediate and death of a heart attack.

If a human obtains a Death Note and he already has one, he must immediately give it away to a player of his choice.

The same rule applies to Shinigami; however, Shinigami wait until the end of the night to give it away.

The game started with day. According to the Rules of Death, Death Notes kill at night, so there couldn't be a Note kill day 1. The day 1 kill was not from a Death Note. If mykonian claimed that kill, he was lying.

Xylthixlm · Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:22 pm

I'll take your word for it, although I don't see it.

If there was a N0, where are the rest of the Death Note kills?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3192 (isolation #17) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:46 pm

Lamont: If N0 was for talk only then its existence is completely irrelevant to my argument.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3194 (isolation #18) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:40 pm

But that is totally irrelevant. Are you just trying to be a pedant?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3198 (isolation #19) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:58 pm

So you weren't disputing my point about the D1 kill and death notes?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3204 (isolation #20) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:54 pm

Maybe we should ask Steph.

Xylthixlm · Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:13 pm

Kairyuu wrote:@zwet: You should vote myko. He's got a death note. Trust me, it's a good idea.

vote: mykonian

Xylthixlm · Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:15 pm

LlamaFluff wrote:Stop being stupid, Steph can be confirmed as L since he is claiming to have recruited two players. Why arent you just asking for someone that is in his group to say "I am in his group" or something to that extent?

Lamont_Cranston, answer this.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3221 (isolation #23) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:19 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:He stated who L communicates with.

No, he didn't. He said that he would be able to communicate with Watari, Mello, and Near once L was dead. He never said that he could communicate with L, nor that L could communicate with any of those others.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3226 (isolation #24) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:58 pm

Did it occur to you that maybe the Watari/Mello/Near group doesn't exist yet?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3228 (isolation #25) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:38 pm

Stephoscope wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Did it occur to you that maybe the Watari/Mello/Near group doesn't exist yet?
When I said no such group currently existed, which it doesn't, SSK said I was lying. He probably just screwed up, though.

Knowing MafiaSSK, that's very likely.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3230 (isolation #26) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:55 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Did it occur to you that maybe the Watari/Mello/Near group doesn't exist yet?
This needs explaining. Why would that occur to you?

It occurred to me when I read the events at the end of yesterday. In the series, Near and Mello only come into play after L's death, so it makes sense that in this game they would gain powers when L dies.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3231 (isolation #27) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:59 pm

Also, it's pretty much the only way to reconcile MafiaSSK's and Steph's claims. Steph even suggested it. I realize you have stopped reading anything Steph says.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3233 (isolation #28) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:08 pm

Have you seen/read the series?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3236 (isolation #29) » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:24 pm

Okay.

MASSIVE SPOILERS (not that you care if you're in this game)

Watari is a very, very rich old man, who runs an institution that trains young savants to be the world's greatest detective. L is the title given to the current holder of that post.

The holder of the greatest-detective title as the series starts is L (who's called that through most of the series, so that's the name I'll use here). Near and Mello are in training to succeed him. Near is picked as the next L, but Mello resents this and thinks he is more suitable.

L is brought in to solve the Kira case.

Eventually Light (Kira) manages to kill L and Watari. L's death triggers a computer which informs Near and Mello (still at the institution) that Near is now L. Near heads to Japan to catch Light. Mello also heads to Japan, intending to catch Light before Near and thereby prove that he's more suitable to be the next L.

So, Near and Mello don't enter the series until after L is dead - in fact their entrance is directly triggered by L's death.

Aiber was a character brought onto the Kira Task Force by the original L (rather late, as I recall). I don't remember what happened to him after L & Watari's death.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3256 (isolation #30) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:57 am

Kairyuu's claim is bothering me for some reason.

Xylthixlm · Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:02 am

Knight of Cydonia wrote:A quick two questions for zwet - i came across your earlier claim of Raye Penber's fiance, a one-sided lover + tracker. You then claimed it was a fake claim, then claimed it wasn't, as far as I can see.

1) Do you stand by this claim?
2) Do you know your name?

Wait what?

Xylthixlm · Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:05 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:FYI, I was a one sided lover with Mastin, though I only knew his rolename, not his identity. Because of his death I have gained the power to track people at night.

zwetschenwasser wrote:Do you know what one-sided means? If I died he would also have died, but not vice versa.

zwetschenwasser wrote:Nobody believed my fakeclaim...

zwetschenwasser wrote:Zaz wins! I did not fakeclaim.

The earlier questions:
Ok, I saw that you already stated your reason for claiming. So I'll only ask why you didn't soft-claim by stating that you think he was a tracker, or something like that?

I didn't know that Mastin in particular was R. I only knew that R was my lover.

Second question, did you already know that he was your lover at the start of this game?

I only knew that the rolename R was my lover, not the person who was attached to the rolename

Third, how did you learn you became a tracker?

Mod PM

And last but not least, since when do you remember to whom you are paired >.<?

Huh?

Xylthixlm · Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:07 am

This fits flavor.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3265 (isolation #34) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:19 pm

So... we have a claimed recruiting mason-PM cop, a claimed tracker, a claimed nighttalk-cop, and a claimed one-shot 99%-sane daycop.

Safe bet at least one of you is lying here.

Vi's Death Note didn't drop. That could be because he didn't start the game with one, highly unlikely. It could be because he passed it to a scumbuddy... there's a missing Note kill N2, so it's likely a Note was passed, but Vi didn't seem to be under suspicion so it's unlikely he would pass his Note.

That leaves the most likely possibility, that whoever killed Vi now has the Note. Call it 80%. Obviously they're scum, since if they were town they would have destroyed it. mykonian claimed the kill day 1... would he have done that if he didn't know the identity of the daykiller? Normally I'd say no, he'd fear getting daykilled the next day, but as a shinigami I'm not sure. He'd probably try to avoid getting killed because it would cost him his Note. So I don't think myk would lie there. Which means he probably is the daykiller. I am having trouble with the flavor of that, though. Call that 50%.

Together I'd say there's a roughly 40% chance that mykonian has Vi's Death Note right now. Happy with my vote.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3268 (isolation #35) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:31 pm

DeathNote wrote:Speaking of which, how many Kira's are in the game?

In the series there were four Death Notes in the human world. One was destroyed when mykonian was lynched, so I'm guessing there are three Death Notes left. That also fits the number of obvious Note kills N1/D2.

Gorrad wrote:And obviously Mello is a third-party daykiller. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he's a SK who either gets extra powers or has a WC that's note-dependant. Again, Myk was trying to out the daykiller by claiming that role. Why would a Shinigami kill constantly with bullet flavor? It's Mello, plain and simple.

This makes sense.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3269 (isolation #36) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:34 pm

unvote, vote zwet

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3274 (isolation #37) » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:33 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
unvote, vote zwet
???

You're scum.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3277 (isolation #38) » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:44 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:y?

Because you're scum.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3279 (isolation #39) » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:25 am

Everyone who has just unvoted should vote zwet.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3282 (isolation #40) » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:52 am

Starbuck wrote:So give us some reasons why zwet is scum?

Do an ISO read and look at his most recent posts. Also look at his claim.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3283 (isolation #41) » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:40 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:PR faking is a nulltell in my book. If you're a badass town powerrole I would pretend to be disabled to draw the nightkill away from myself.

No. Simply, no.

The power of being able to catch scum by finding fake claims is

much

better for the town than the power to mislead scum by faking power roles. A game where anyone can change their claim at will is paradise for scum. The town should always be able to assume that townies tell the truth, and that anyone who is caught in a lie, or anyone who changes a claim, is scum. Period. Anything else cripples the town's ability to scumhunt. Lying is not and never will be a nulltell.

Zwet was clearly trying to test the waters for possibly changing his claim if he is countered. Now we have three other claimed info roles. Zwet's claim is obviously false. He needs to be lynched.

Xylthixlm · Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:53 am

Right. By "didn't drop" I mean it didn't get publicly destroyed. So either he didn't have one, or it transferred.

Xylthixlm · Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:37 am

zwet, claim your results.

Xylthixlm · Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:41 am

LlamaFluff wrote:And full name/role claim. I just want to be sure you are really Maki

Why are you prompting him with the name he's supposed to claim?

Xylthixlm · Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:42 am

The fact that zwet apparently didn't remember his own role name is another point against him, btw.

Xylthixlm · Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:56 am

No, he didn't.

zwetchenwasser -3 (xylthixlm, populartajo, Lamont_Cranston)
mykonian -1 (Kairyuu)
WeyounsLastClone -1 (Kmd4390)

Not voting: zwetschenwasser, mykonian, Kmd4390 Gorrad, millar13, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

Justice will also be brought upon those who harm others.

With 15 alive, it's 8 to lynch.

Xylthixlm · Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:07 pm

Let's wait for zwet.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3310 (isolation #48) » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:37 am

Who else was in the SPK?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3313 (isolation #49) » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:38 am

I see no reason to disbelieve the thing about SPK, but it doesn't confirm zwet's alignment at all.

zwet, claim your results.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3318 (isolation #50) » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:30 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:I see no reason to disbelieve the thing about SPK, but it doesn't confirm zwet's alignment at all.

zwet, claim your results.
no result night 1, I forgot to send an action n2, and no result n3. I didn't get a PM at all in response to either of my actions, so I'm assuming something happened both nights.

There were only two nights. Also, you forgot to claim your targets.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3321 (isolation #51) » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:35 pm

I'm pretty sure I've seen zwet make exactly the same mistake before.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3326 (isolation #52) » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:42 pm

zwetschenwasser (day 2) wrote:I think I got roleblocked last night...

You thought you got roleblocked... but you forgot to send an action? Shouldn't getting no result make you try to remember who you targeted?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3333 (isolation #53) » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:52 pm

Vi wrote:
@mod: Replace Skruffs and zwetschenwasser.

zwet's absence is NOT scummy, and the suggested policy lynch on him has literally NO pro-Town value. (hint: he claimed a power role, so any pro-Town value lynching him vs. seeing him replaced would have is laughable)

Vi wanted his scumbuddy replaced rather than lynched.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3346 (isolation #54) » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:37 am

Stephoscope wrote:I have no comment at this time.

I interpret this as meaning he's right, because if he was wrong you would have said so and voted him.

unvote

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3358 (isolation #55) » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:23 pm

My additions are in

blue

Vi wrote:
Scum

Cuddly Bear
ortolan
MafiaSSK (Dead town)

Starbuck

mykonian

(Shinigami)

magnus_orion
(Dead neutral)

Kise
(Dead town)

WeyounsLastClone
(Prob town)

Kairyuu (please do not abbreviate this name as "Kai")
Benmage?
(Modkilled)

populartajo?

cateraction

(Dead town)

MrBuddyLee?

Town

Stephoscope?
(Prob town)

ZEEnon
Xylthixlm (Town)

ZazieR

(Dead town)

Lamont_Cranston
LlamaFluff

Spolium
ThAdmiral
(Dead town)

Gorrad? (Gorrad almost looks Town to me; I have no idea what to do)
Kmd4390

No signal, step away from the carpeted wall

Everyone else
=
zwetschenwasser (Prob town)

millar13
Knight of Cydonia (
Mod: Please update first post
)
DeathNote
semioldguy (Dead town)

Vi's scumbuddies are probably distributed between the groups (I learned this analysis trick from DGB). I expect one in the "No signal" group, one in the "Scum" group, and the rest in the "Town" group.

There are only two people left in the "No signal" group who aren't prob-town. Both of them have a good chance of being scumbuddies with Vi.

There's four people left in the "Scum" group, plus mykonian was in there, so there's at most one left there and maybe none.

That leaves four people left in the "Town" group who have a moderate chance to be scum.

So:

High chance of scum

DeathNote
Knight of Cydonia

Moderate chance of scum

Lamont_Cranston
LlamaFluff
Gorrad
Kmd4390

Low chance of scum

Starbuck
Kairyuu
populartajo
MrBuddyLee

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3360 (isolation #56) » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:35 pm

If you don't think I'm town put me on the "moderate" list.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3364 (isolation #57) » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:22 pm

Starbuck wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:I like Xyl's analysis of Vi's posts. I think I will do that & BW analysis of SSK.
Actually it was me that did the analysis on Vi.

I was wondering. But Lamont_Cranston did inspire me to do some analysis of my own, so it works out.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3366 (isolation #58) » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:08 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:
Kairyuu wrote: That said, I am considering both you and zwet confirmed town now, so I'll respect your wishes.
Why are you considering Zwet confirmed?

He isn't confirmed town, but he is confirmed tracker.

Xylthixlm · Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:53 pm

You're right. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

Xylthixlm · Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:57 pm

Why is there a color for dead Shinigami? They can't die...

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3375 (isolation #61) » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:25 pm

Knight of Cydonia wrote:They can.
If a Shinigami uses a Death Note in order to prolong the life of any human, they instantly turn to a kind of metallic, sandy dust, leaving their Death Note behind.

Yes, according to the series they can die, but according to the first post they can't.

Gelus wrote:This game contains Shinigami. Shinigami are powerful, invincible neutral roles with unique win conditions. Shinigami cannot be lynched or killed. If they would be lynched, instead their rolename is revealed, they lose their Death Note if they possess one as per the rules above, and the game continues as normal (the day still ends). If they would be killed, the same is true except that their rolename is not revealed.

zwetchenwasser -1 (populartajo)
mykonian -1 (Kairyuu)
WeyounsLastClone -1 (Kmd4390)

Not voting: zwetschenwasser, mykonian, Kmd4390 Gorrad, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, WeyounsLastClone, xylthixlm, Llamafluff, Knight of Cydonia, Lamont_Cranston

So, I was right...

With 15 alive, it's 8 to lynch.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3383 (isolation #62) » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:08 pm

Knight of Cydonia wrote:...no, DeathNote, I mean... ugh.
Theoretically, Death Note kills could be resolved before any other night action, BUT still at night. If this is true, then this is the only way a Shinigami can die in this game: by accidentally prolonging the life of another by killing a vig before that vig's kill is reached in the action resolution chain.

You are forgetting that in the series, a shinigami only dies if they

deliberately

prolong the life of someone.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3390 (isolation #63) » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:27 pm

Kmd has fallen off my radar. That makes me nervous.

Vote: Kmd4390

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3397 (isolation #64) » Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:41 pm

Lamont: Vi was killed, not lynched, so the Note goes to his killer.

Another thing... magnus_orion, pro-Kira, was killed by a Death Note last night. So either Vi was an SK, killed magnus, and was killed by magnus's mafia, or there are at least three scum factions.

Mod: What happens if the player who kills someone who is holding a Death Note is already dead when the kill happens?

This question is noted and ignored.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3403 (isolation #65) » Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:58 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:Does your definition of "scum" include Shinigami?

Yes. Anyone who can carry a death note is scum in this game.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3404 (isolation #66) » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:02 pm

Lamont: If the killer used a Death Note to kill Vi, they would get Vi's Note and then have to immediately give it away. (Unless the killer was another mykonian or another Shinigami.)

Rules of Death wrote:If a human obtains a Death Note and he already has one, he must immediately give it away to a player of his choice.

The same rule applies to Shinigami; however, Shinigami wait until the end of the night to give it away.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3418 (isolation #67) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:54 am

Lamont: If a protown player had killed Vi we would have seen the Death Note get destroyed. I think.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3419 (isolation #68) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:56 am

Kairyuu has convinced me.

unvote, vote mykonian

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3422 (isolation #69) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:07 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Lamont: If a protown player had killed Vi we would have seen the Death Note get destroyed. I think.
And you point this out why?

Vig is protown by definition. If they're not protown and they can kill, they're SK/mafia rather than a vig.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3424 (isolation #70) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:10 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Ok well I was addressing the theory that our dayvig is an SK 3rd party etc.

That was kairyuu's option 1.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3426 (isolation #71) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:17 am

Is this just a hypothetical concern, or do you think that myk is actually unlikely to have a Note?

_________________
#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net

"We should strive to make an informed decision based on the best evidence, and then act accordingly, even though the best evidence will never guarantee certainty."

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3432 (isolation #72) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:28 am

Obviously mislynching mykonian is better than mislynching a townie, so the key here is that you think mykonian won't have a note. So where do you think Vi's note went?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3435 (isolation #73) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:41 am

Normally the problem with nolynch is that it doesn't advance the game - you go right back to where you were, except the scum get a kill. But if mykonian has a good chance of having a note, then we still make progress by lynching him, and we don't risk losing a townie.

I don't get the thing about missing 2 kills at all. We're missing one kill, so either someone gave a note away -> good chance it went to mykonian; or the daykill was actually a Note kill -> the killer had to immediately give away Vi's Note -> good chance it went to mykonian.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3438 (isolation #74) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:10 am

Lamont: You are confusing Kira with pro-Kira. Kira, by definition, has a Death Note already.

Your point about 2 kills makes no sense. Why would a shinigami killing Vi result in 2 missing kills?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3439 (isolation #75) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:13 am

So, if I'm understanding this right, you think there's a pro-Kira scumgroup containing at least one person with a Death Note and one person without. The Kira killed Vi, and then gave Vi's Note to a pro-Kira player in their group who didn't already have one. Is that correct?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3441 (isolation #76) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:16 am

Huh? Why would that mean Vi didn't kill?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3442 (isolation #77) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:17 am

Lamont, I think your terminology is confused here. "Kira" just means any player with a Death Note.

Rules wrote:Any scum player possessing a Death Note is Kira. There can be multiple Kiras, even at the same time, and there even can be no Kiras.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3443 (isolation #78) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:20 am

If it helps, "Kira" is just the Japanese pronunciation of "killer". Any scum player who has a Death Note is a killer.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:51 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Huh? Why would that mean Vi didn't kill?
Are you trying to say there has been a Shinigami kill every night now?

... why would you assume there wasn't?

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:53 am

Gorrad wrote:I'm Mogi. 1-shot daycop. Lamont's town ><. I get a percentage based on how likely they are to be Kira-aligned. Lamont has a 1% chance.

If it wasn't for this, right now I would be guessing that Lamont is a shinigami who didn't kill night 1.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:54 am

Wait. Gorrad, your result is based on whether they are Kira-aligned, right? It doesn't distinguish between town and shinigami?

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:55 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well its a theory that had never occurred to me but obviously that is what
you
are saying by voting Myk; not only that, but that it was a Shinigami that killed Myk as well.

Wrong.

Perhaps you should try making your argument for why there would be 2 missing kills, one step at a time, starting from your assumptions.

mykonian -7 (Kairyuu, zwetschenwasser, Llamafluff, xylthixlm, Stephoscope, Starbuck, DeathNote)
zwetchenwasser -1 (populartajo)
WeyounsLastClone -1 (Kmd4390)

Not voting: mykonian, Kmd4390 Gorrad, WeyounsLastClone, Knight of Cydonia, Lamont_Cranston

Near...

With 15 alive, it's 8 to lynch.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:00 pm

You should consider the difference between "no lynch" and "a high chance of getting rid of a death note".

I am not saying that a Shinigami killed Vi. The point is that

all

of the theories for who killed him point to a good chance that mykonian now has a note.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:03 pm

Lamont, this whole argument started with your statement right here:

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Missing 2 kills would be if a Shinigami killed Vi which is why it wasn't a shinigami that killed Vi.

YOU brought up shinigami. You have still not explained how a Shinigami killing Vi would cause 2 missing kills. It seems like you are assuming that, if a Shinigami killed Vi, that's their first time killing. There is absolutely no basis for that assumption. If you're arguing that a shinigami would result in 2 missing kills for some other reason, you need to explain what that reason is.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:04 pm

Correction, your first mention of Shinigami was here:

Lamont_Cranston wrote:I think it is fairly obvious that Vi's note had to of went to another Kira. It couldn't of been a Shinigami that did the kill because we would be missing 2 kills. The only exception is if our dayvig killed Vi. If this is the case than all bets are off.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:05 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:What? That is outrageous. There is no "high probability" of Myk having a note here UNLESS a Shinigami killed Vi and has made a kill every night. Otherwise its 100% certain Myk
doesn't
have a note.

Explain.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3460 (isolation #87) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:50 pm

I am going to make a wild ass-guess here and say that Lamont_Cranston is a shinigami, probably without a death note, probably Sidoh.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3462 (isolation #88) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:02 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:Xyl, any reason for that or is it a true "wild ass-guess"? And if it's just a guess, why say it?

There's a reason but I have a high chance of being totally wrong. I want to see if he confirms it.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3464 (isolation #89) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:22 pm

A)

Kira killed Vi

- And then had to immediately give away the new Death Note. To who?
B)

Shinigami killed Vi

- I don't even know why this case is here, it's the same as A.
C)

Our day vig killed Vi

- And by "day vig" I mean "day killer". One Death Note kill is unaccounted for here. Why?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3465 (isolation #90) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:28 pm

I think I got the source of confusion right in this post, but you never answered it. Is this correct?

Xylthixlm wrote:So, if I'm understanding this right, you think there's a pro-Kira scumgroup containing at least one person with a Death Note and one person without. The Kira killed Vi, and then gave Vi's Note to a pro-Kira player in their group who didn't already have one. Is that correct?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3466 (isolation #91) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:35 pm

By the way, a little tip about argument in general. If you think something is totally obvious, but the person your talking to doesn't seem to get it, chances are you're working from different assumptions. I've been trying to figure out what assumptions you're making and you've been totally uncooperative, you just keep saying "it should be plain enough to see" and ignoring or refusing to answer questions that might help me figure out where the difference is.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3469 (isolation #92) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:35 pm

Yes it does. It also answers the question of where the missing Death Note kill went, or at least narrows it down to two possibilities...

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3470 (isolation #93) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:40 pm

Start of day: post 3076
Vi killed: post 3106
mykonian killed: post 3467

So... Vi set to die after 30 posts, or mykonian set to die after 391 posts, give or take.

If the Death Note kill was on Vi it probably means that there's a scumteam that now has two Notes. That's ... kind of bad.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3477 (isolation #94) » Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:39 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well that's what I've believed as soon as I could understand what Kai was saying.

So the two possibilities are:

1) Scum killed Vi and have
two death notes

2) Day Killer is 3rd party and has the death note
in addition to the daykill

Would that be correct?

Now it's correct.

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3485 (isolation #95) » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:53 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:No, Lamont was genuine, but Xyl was just playing along.

You are confused because I was acting like Lamont was a confused townie rather than possible scum. Yes?

Xylthixlm · Post Post #3486 (isolation #96) » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:02 am

Vote: Kmd4390

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:56 am

zwet: Lamont's argument that there was no chance of myk being scum rested on some questionable assumptions (which he didn't even realize he was making, so they are unlikely to be faked). What were they, and what do those assumptions say about Lamont?

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:57 am

sorry, not "no chance of myk being scum" but "no chance of myk having a Death Note".

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:49 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:I don't follow you.

I'll rephrase the question. Why did Lamont believe that myk almost certainly didn't have a Note, while me/Kairyuu/Starbuck/etc thought he might?

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:59 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:For pretty logical reasoning.

You were voting myk. Why?

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:24 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
zwetschenwasser wrote:For pretty logical reasoning.
You were voting myk. Why?
Kairyuu convinced me.

But Lamont was arguing that myk had a 0% chance of having a Death Note, exactly the opposite of what Kairyuu said. You can't think

both

of them were right.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:05 am

zwet claimed the ability to check people talking at night?

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:24 pm

Nighttalk-cop, 10% chance of alerting,

and

you don't get to start until N2? I call bullshit.

unvote, vote Kairyuu

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:56 pm

Kairyuu wrote:Mmk. I just counted up the votes, and with the new lynch count, Lamont is L-3. I'm not letting this wagon come to fruition. I didn't want to have to do this, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm a cop of sorts. Beginning N2 I get to check someone each Night to see if they're talking to anyone. I checked Lamont. He was not talking to anyone. Hence, he cannot be Mafia. This does not necessarily rule out Shinigami, but myko claims that prior to losing his death note he was able to talk anonymously with someone. If this is true, it means that, even if Lamont is Shinigami, he DOES NOT HAVE A NOTE. We're not lynching him.

Oh, and there's a 10% chance that my target will be alerted of my presence and told my identity. This does not stop my investigation.

Rolename: Stephen Gevanni. I'm a total badass.

We can lynch myko nao. kthxbai

The "beginning N2" part apparently did not sink in the first time I read this.

Kairyuu wrote:3. My claim is far more complicated than I would normally come up with on my own. I very much prefer the simple vanilla claim as scum. It's easier.

So your scumbuddies helped you?

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:02 pm

Kairyuu wrote:Why would I claim like that as scum?

So you could argue you wouldn't claim like that as scum. Why wouldn't you claim like that as scum?

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:16 pm

Kairyuu wrote:If I'm scum I've claimed with no provocation to defend someone who may or may not be scum with me

Wait, what? If you're scum you should know who's scum with you. That, and your comment about not having anyone to help you make a fake claim, sound like you're assuming that the scum in this game don't know who the other scum are ...

...

...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:21 pm

Okay. We know the scum kill using Death Notes. If there's a group of three or four scum, and each of them managed to get a Death Note somehow... game over. How would the mods balance that? Not telling the scum who each other are would work. The note about unusual night-talk might be a hint towards that.

This would also allow a full-PM cop to appear in the game without being totally broken.

Hmmmm.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:31 pm

But if you were scum you would

know

if they're scum with you, so you might have done it to defend a scumbuddy. It's no defense at all if you interpret it that way.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:12 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:One thing we know:

Xyl does NOT bus.

They both aren't scum together here. I believe Kai at this point because he has only a town motivation to claim.

Therefore they are either both town or Xyl is scum.

I have to point out here that if you start with the assumption that Kai is town, you don't need "Xyl does NOT bus" to get that.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:19 pm

Lamont, what do you think about zwet?

Xylthixlm · Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:22 am

Starbuck wrote:I was just re-reading the front page, and did ThAdmiral actually die? All it says is that he disappeared.

From the fact that ThAdmiral's role and alignment flipped, I'm pretty sure he's dead. In the series there is a character who is killed with the Death Note by having her commit suicide in such a way that her body isn't found for months.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:49 am

Kairyuu, why are you annoyed about the town essentially getting two lynches a day?

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:07 am

Oof. You're right.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:06 pm

According to the Death Note Wiki, Sayu is Light's younger sister.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:09 pm

Tajo, is your info on a living role name or a dead role name?

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:15 pm

"Nothing proves you fake claiming yet" is not a reason to unvote.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:13 am

tajo, claim.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:47 am

populartajo wrote:And in any case, it will be better if you lynch me without me revealing this information, since once its spilled, it will become pretty much uselss.

So, yeah.

Uh, no. If you're going to be lynched you need to reveal before you die.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:43 am

populartajo wrote:
LlamaFluff wrote:Why do you know theme wise of a living rolename with a note?
I know someone that is completely besotted with Light and will do anything for him. Ive found that person has an strange notebook.

That would presumably be Misa, who is in love with Light in the series. It doesn't take much flavor knowledge to guess she would have a Death Note.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:51 am

For reference, the four characters that start with Death Notes in the series are Ryuk, Light, Rem, and Misa.

Ryuk - Shinigami. Tricks the shinigami Sidoh out of his Death Note and gives it to Light. Has a Note of his own, because he's a shinigami.
Light - Human. Uses his Note to become the original Kira.
Rem - Shinigami. Takes the Note from the dead shinigami Gelus and gives it to Misa. Has a Note of her own, because she's a shinigami.
Misa - Human. In love with original Kira, although at first she doesn't know that he's Light. Uses her Note to become the second Kira.

One thing about tajo's claim... if Sayu Yagami has something about Misa in her role PM, that would imply that Misa had already met Light at the start of the game, so they would probably be a scumgroup.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:09 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Remember in LAL where Tajo fakeclaimed?

Now that you mention it, yes.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:10 am

Almost

the whole game. We lynched him in the end.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:11 am

But yes, I see your point. Thinking.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:01 am

The claim makes some sense, since Sayu did see Misa when Misa met Light (she met her at the door, iirc). I don't think she ever saw Misa with a notebook, though? I could be wrong.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:49 am

populartajo wrote:I have the rolename of a player that started the game with a death note, therefore antitown. I have already breadcrumbed the role name. That player isnt dead. Me sharing this information, for obvious reasons, is not what Im looking for.

populartajo wrote:I never said my role contains information of death notes. My PM talks about a strange notebook.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:55 am

populartajo wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
populartajo wrote:I have the rolename of a player that started the game with a death note, therefore antitown. I have already breadcrumbed the role name. That player isnt dead. Me sharing this information, for obvious reasons, is not what Im looking for.

populartajo wrote:I never said my role contains information of death notes. My PM talks about a strange notebook.
But Xyl a strange notebook is an obvious death note!

Well, yes. But you do seem to be making a useless semantic distinction. You claim you have the rolename of someone with a death note, but then you say you never claimed your role contains information of death notes... eh.

The more important question is would Sayu know anything about strange notebooks, Death Note or not.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:56 am

DeathNote wrote:Forgive my last post, I misread.

You forgot to unvote?

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:00 am

tajo: No, it's clear. It's a bit odd but it's clear.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:33 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:So you're saying she just thinks its an ordinary notebook?

I don't think she ever even sees the notebook. She's just told that Misa is bringing Light his notebook.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:30 am

12 hours to deadline. tajo is at L-1 by my (not so careful) count.

I'm thinking tajo is probably town, but I'm not sure. He's certainly better than no lynch. I'd be happier with a Kairyuu or zwet lynch - pretty sure one of those is scum - but that seems unlikely at this point.

tajo, if you've got anything else to reveal, now is the time.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:59 pm

I think that was the hammer, but if it wasn't

unvote, vote populartajo

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:30 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
@KMD:
What makes you think MBL is scummy? I know he has deliberately lurked alot, what else?

That's a role-info claim if I've ever seen one. Which means we have two role-info claims to start the day with.

Based on numbers there's probably 2 or 3 scum left... so I think we're going to have this game in the bag pretty soon.

PREVIEW EDIT: tajo was lynched, remember?

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:54 am

I'm sort of assuming we can handle the shinigami by trying to fulfil their win conditions after the scum are dead. I'm guessing that there were two shinigami with notes, and we already got rid of one of them.

Lamont: Why are you assuming I'm a shinigami and not, say, Mello? (Who makes it 3-4 left, if you assume he's the daykiller. Oops.)

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Oh btw, can we say that Llamafluff is now confirmed town? He brought a case against scum out of nowhere...

He's not pro-Kira, at any rate.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:33 pm

Kairyuu wrote:@Xyl: Did you talk to anyone last Night?

No, I didn't. I take it you investigated me.

vote: Starbuck

totally obvious.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:28 pm

Stephoscope wrote:LlamaFluff is a Shinigami, Rem to be precise. I don't know whether or not he has a death note right now, but he started the game with one.

He is a daymason with Misa Amane. He wins if Misa Amane survives.

If Misa Amane's death note (I'm guessing she started with one too) winds up in someone else's hands, Llama can instead communicate with that other player.

It's worth noting that Llama spent days one and two knowing his role information was secret, and probably all of yesterday knowing he was going to be investigated. I haven't analyzed him yet, I just wanted to get all this out ASAP in case I'm killed.

Stephoscope wrote:No. But I neglected to mention: the first instance of Misa Amane's imminent death leads to Llama dying in sacrifice to rescue her (sorry for the clumsy wording, I'm just making absolutely sure I'm not quoting role PMs)

Stephoscope wrote:Assuming Llama is a Shinigami (which is fact, and I think I've provided enough for you to know that), and Starbuck is Misa, and both apparently started with a DeathNote, what is the rationale for lynching Starbuck (which will lead to a Llama death) and not Llama? I'm not protesting anything, I just want to make sure we're all thinking things through.

Let's see I understand this correctly.

If we lynch Llama, we eliminate his Death Note, but he comes back to life.
If we lynch Starbuck, Llama dies to rescue her, we eliminate Llama's Death Note, and Llama comes back to life? That can't be right. I'm guessing he really dies, that fits flavor.

So, assuming Llama really dies when he saves Misa, that means lynching Starbuck takes care of one Death Note and permanently eliminates Llama, and we can lynch Starbuck again to kill her. On the other hand, lynching Llama takes care of one Death Note but leaves Llama alive, and we'll still need two lynches to eliminate Starbuck. Lynching Starbuck is clearly better, but either way Starbuck gets a chance to pass her Death Note to someone else overnight. Ugh.

On the gripping hand, if Starbuck isn't Misa we might as well lynch Llama to get rid of the Death Note, but we'll still need to lynch Misa twice when we find her.

Does this strike anyone as overpowered for scum?

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:43 pm

Stephoscope wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Does this strike anyone as overpowered for scum?
Exactly what are you getting at? While I encourage any and all discussion regarding who should be today's lynch, I really do believe it's been established that I am exactly who I say I am.

I'm not doubting you (well, only a tiny bit). But if you're telling the truth, I think there's something here we're not getting.

Why would Llama throw tajo under a bus yesterday?

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well actually it is two different factions but I see your point.

If Llama's win condition is to have a scum survive the game, he's effectively scum.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:58 pm

Kairyuu wrote:@Xyl: Really now, because my investigation just turned up that you DID talk to someone last Night. Want to explain to me why you lied now? Did you doubt my claim that much that you'd be willing to take that risk, Mr. Scum?

Hey look, I'm right about at least one of zwet or Kairyuu being scum.

As he points out, if I was scum I would have no reason to lie there.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:01 pm

Actually I need to check something with the mod.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:04 pm

I'm going to wait for a response from the mod before I say anything else here.

Starbuck -4 (Knight of Cydonia, Kairyuu, Lamont_Cranston, xylthixlm)
MrBuddyLee -1 (Kmd4390)

Not voting: zwetschenwasser, mykonian, MrBuddyLee, Gorrad, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

That could cause problems.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:09 am

Kairyuu, are you saying that I have a role ability to night-talk, or are you saying that I have an actual active night chat? This may be important.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:08 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Yes I was about to comment on that. I believe we can ISO him site wide and show some activity elsewhere.

Site-wide search is broken, but check newbie 815. He's definitely around. I think it's safe to say that he knows he's caught.

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Also, has anyone noticed we're missing a kill?

Yes. Two, actually, I think.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:30 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:So have you heard back from the Mod Xyl?

Yes, now I'm waiting for Kairyuu to answer my question to him.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:28 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:I'd much rather lynch Llamafluff over Starbuck.

Do you think Starbuck is Misa?

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:31 am

So why would you rather lynch LlamaFluff?

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:45 am

You have me & Kairyuu backwards.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:53 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:You have me & Kairyuu backwards.
What town aligned role/PR have you claimed?

Oh, I thought green/red meant town/scum

Starbuck -3 (Knight of Cydonia, Kairyuu, xylthixlm)
MrBuddyLee -2 (Kmd4390, Lamont_Cranston)

Not voting: zwetschenwasser, mykonian, MrBuddyLee, Gorrad, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, LlamaFluff

Kira?!

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:08 pm

I'll claim once Kairyuu clarifies his role. Breadcrumb: 5 liar ktw aha

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:59 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:I'm working on the assumption that Misa either never could or can no longer give away her death note.

Mmm. So you think that if we lynch Starbuck, we get her Death Note even if Llama's ability saves her?

Xylthixlm · Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:57 pm

I

think

that means that Kairyuu is scum. Still trying to figure out what his actual ability is.

I am Lind L. Tailor. My role ability (paraphrasing) is that I get inspected as if I was L - sort of a pro-town miller. According to the mod (paraphrasing again) this would not change results of a cop who checked for actual night-communication ability if one existed.

Xylthixlm wrote:I'll claim once Kairyuu clarifies his role. Breadcrumb: 5 liar ktw aha

If you go to http://deathnote.wikia.com/wiki/Lind_L._Tailor, the fifth line is "Light, in a rage, kills Tailor with a heart attack."

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:06 am

I don't have the ability to night talk. Kairyuu is lying.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:02 am

MrBuddyLee wrote:I'm not scum. In fact, I can prove it, but we'll have to waste a lynch to do it.

I have this horrible feeling that one missed lynch here would cost the town the game.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:12 am

It's just a hunch, but having

four

1v1s all appear on the same day is unlikely to be a coincidence. And if we add in mykonian to those 1v1s there are

at least

four nontown players alive, probably five. Combine that with probably three Death Note kills and a daykiller of unknown alignment, and chances are that if there's one more mislynch, tomorrow the protown players will be an absolute minority. At that point we'll never get majority back - our only hope would be to get the shinigami to vote with the town to help us eliminate the Death Notes.

No, I think we absolutely need to lynch scum today.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:05 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Oh in fact, I think we can definitely say that Starbuck is
not
pro-kira.

I have no idea how you're getting this.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:34 am

zwet, are you scum? Be honest.

I second the call for KoC to explain exactly what happened in as much detail as possible.

Still thinking on whether lynching LlamaFluff is a good idea.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:19 pm

zwet, how does Steph's claim fit into your theory?

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:06 pm

Xylthixlm wrote:zwet, how does Steph's claim fit into your theory?

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:21 pm

So... according to zwet: Steph, Llamafluff, Rem, KoC, Starbuck, and me are all scum or self-aligned, presumably with at least one of Kmd/MBL, making for a total of seven nontown players. This despite WLC (Watari) not denying Steph's story, and being dead and town-aligned.

I hate to ask, but do you have any actual evidence to support this bizarre theory?

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:28 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:BTW steph, there's not really any antitown tracker-like characters in the series that really matter besides Light. So I'm considering myself confirmed town now.

"I was really surprised my role pm said I'm a scum tracker because it doesn't fit flavor"

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:57 pm

No, he's a confirmed tracker. Not confirmed town. Scum trackers exist.

The problem with "this is his meta" is that sometimes he's scum, and you can't tell when.

Xylthixlm · Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:54 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:Also, I mentioned a theory earlier. My theory is that all town aligned players were weakened versions of cops.

I'm not a cop. MafiaSSK (Aiber) wasn't a cop. I'm guessing WLC (Watari) wasn't a cop.

On the other hand, mykonian (Ryuk) claimed a role-cop ability.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:21 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:No but still he could of made up a claim where he had night chat and avoided all of this...

I claimed my real role. I don't have another one.

vote: Kairyuu

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:33 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Xyl, what is Kai's motivation for coming out of the blue and accusing you? When you flip town-aligned his carcass gets rung up??

I'm guessing he has some sort of scum info role, and thinks I'm shinigami/third-party and is trying to get me lynched for town credit. Or maybe he's a shinigami/third-party with an info role and thinks I'm scum.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:48 am

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Ya but the point here is that his info role says you have night chat ability...

He's

lying

.

He probably has an info role, but not the one he says he has.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:54 am

Let's see. There's at most two Death Notes left and a protown daykiller out there. I get lynched, two night kills, and tomorrow it's 5 town vs 3 shinigami and Misa. Lynch Kairyuu, if he's Misa then LlamaFluff dies and we can lynch him again the next day, if he's a shinigami ... hmm that doesn't work as well.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:28 am

Xylthixlm wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:Xyl, what is Kai's motivation for coming out of the blue and accusing you? When you flip town-aligned his carcass gets rung up??
I'm guessing he has some sort of scum info role, and
thinks I'm shinigami/third-party and is trying to get me lynched for town credit
. Or maybe he's a shinigami/third-party with an info role and thinks I'm scum.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:06 am

Kairyuu wrote:If he had admitted to talking with someone last Night, then he would have had to tell us who it was. If he lied, then the person he claimed to have talked to would have called him on it and he would have been speedlynched. If he would have told the truth, it would mean revealing the name of one of his scumbuddies, and if either of them died, the other would be the automatic next target.

Please explain why I wouldn't go for the patented Knight of Cydonia "I have a night-talk with someone and I think they're scum but they won't tell me who they are" claim?

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:30 am

Kairyuu wrote:@Xyl: You would still have to reveal a name your way, and it would put you in a quasi 1-1 with KoC. If you were lynched, then the name you mentioned would, again, be the next target for the town.

Huh?

Xylthixlm wrote:Please explain why I wouldn't go for the patented Knight of Cydonia "I have a night-talk with someone and I think they're scum but
they won't tell me who they are
" claim?

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:32 am

Seriously, try again. We already know that it's possible to have night-talk with someone without knowing who they are (assuming KoC is telling the truth, anyways). If I was going to fake a claim I wouldn't need to out anyone to do it.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:22 pm

And why exactly would I invent a miller-like role, PM the mod to clarify the interaction, and then claim "well, I'm a miller, but it wouldn't affect your result"? You're stretching.

What result did you

actually

get on me?

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:37 pm

At the start of the day there were at least two scum alive (MBL and Misa) and three shinigami. One mislynch followed by nightkills would result in town being a minority tomorrow, and a probable scum win. Plenty of reason for scum to set up a 1-1.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:24 pm

I wouldn't mind investigating one of us tonight. I am not going to suggest who because it's pure WIFOM; let the investigator pick. If don't have any real objection to agreeing to be lynched if Kairyuu somehow comes up town, as long as Kairyuu agrees to the same.

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:14 pm

"If the investigation clears me"?

Xylthixlm · Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:46 pm

Kairyuu wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:"If the investigation clears me"?
It'll either clear me or condemn you, so I don't really see what you're getting at here.

In either of those cases I'd get lynched, obviously. If that's what you meant, you wouldn't have needed the "if". But nice cover.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:39 pm

Stephoscope wrote:I believe Kairyuu more than I believe Xylthxlm. Can someone quickly summarize why at least one of them is scum?

Kairyuu claims Stephen Gevanni, a night-talk-investigator who only starts using his ability on N2 and has a 10% chance of alerting his target to the investigation.

I am Lind L. Tailor, L-miller (I show up to investigations as if I was L).

Kairyuu claims that I can night talk. I can't. I checked with the mod and the ability Kairyuu is claiming would not be affected by my role ability.

One of us must be lying.

(It's obviously Kairyuu - he's claiming not just an info role, not just a nerfed info role, not just a double-nerfed info role, but a

triple-nerfed info role

. Our mods may be crazy but they're not that crazy.)

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:54 pm

Stephoscope wrote:In a game in which nighttalk is obviously so prevalent, I think Kairyuu's role makes perfect sense. I also think the N2 start makes sense, so that a successful investigation need not uncover a power role, but could also show a recruit to my group or any others. And it's clear that there are complicated roles in this game, given that SSK was town, it should be pretty obvious that I'm L, and yet we were both convinced one or the other was scum.

And the 10% chance of alerting the target is because...?

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:55 pm

Kairyuu wrote:You're flailing, and it's funny. I've never seen you this worried about your own skin, even as a SK in Tar's Unreal Tournament game.

Have you ever seen me get wagoned as town before?

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:15 pm

Gelus wrote:
No Longer in the Human World:

Kise,
Commander Rester
, Sniped From Afar, D2

I don't even know who Commander Rester is. I remember Lind L. Tailor clearly - he only shows up briefly but he's very important to the story - but not Commander Rester.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:28 pm

Eh. Don't remember him. I liked the Kira Task Force characters much better than the later characters... most of the later ones were kind of bland.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:30 pm

Kairyuu wrote:Given that I've never seen you as town before (SK in UT, and Mafia in MS3), then no, I haven't seen you wagoned as town before.

"Funny, you're not playing the way you do as scum. But you're scum anyways."

Kairyuu wrote:And I still haven't, because you're quite clearly lying scum here, and you're throwing up weak counter after weak counter to try to take down a cop on your way out. Not gonna work though. My position is sustainable. Yours isn't. It's checkmate. You were a worthy opponent, but you've been caught and exposed. It's over.

Well, if I get lynched, you die tomorrow. I presume there were enough scum left that you thought you could win with just one mislynch, at least until MBL got daykilled.

Xylthixlm -3 (kairyuu, Lamont_Cranston, stephoscope)
kairyuu -1 (xylthixlm)
Llamafluff -1 (Zwetrchenwasser)

Not voting: mykonian, Gorrad, LlamaFluff, Stephoscope, Kairyuu, DeathNote, Starbuck, Kmd4390, Knight of Cydonia, xylthixlm, zwetchenwasser

I'm Misa-Misa!

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:04 pm

And heeere comes the "too defensive" attack.

Obviously, I would prefer to lynch Kairyuu first, rather than lynching me then Kairyuu. It gives an extra day to find the rest of the scum. But read the answers to Lamont's question #3 if you want to know which of us is more afraid of being lynched.

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:18 pm

Kairyuu wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:And heeere comes the "too defensive" attack.

Obviously, I would prefer to lynch Kairyuu first, rather than lynching me then Kairyuu. It gives an extra day to find the rest of the scum. But read the answers to Lamont's question #3 if you want to know which of us is more afraid of being lynched.
Let's assume you town. You want to stay alive for another Night so that you can "find the rest of the scum." What can you do with an extra Night that you can't do before Night hits?

I said an extra day, not an extra night. As in, an extra day before town loses, because town has made one fewer mislynch. Twisting my words, scum?

Xylthixlm · Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:23 pm

So you agree that a townie has a perfectly good reason to want the scum lynched first in a 1-1?

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:52 am

Kmd4390 wrote:Xyl, why do you assume Kairyuu is lying? If you flip the same way as L, shouldn't Kairyuu get a result saying that you can night talk?

According to the mod, if I understood the response and Kairyuu's claim correctly, no.

BREAKING EDIT: The mod has sent me a PM about this a few hours ago

clarifying

confusing his earlier answer that a night-talk investigator would only learn about actual night talk, saying that that was a general answer rather than an answer about how it interacted with my role. (WTF? That was

the whole point of the question!

)

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:00 am

unvote

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:37 am

Lamont, I don't think I could make this up if I

was

scum.

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:50 am

Gorrad wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:Lamont, I don't think I could make this up if I
was
scum.
So long, and thanks for all the WIFOM.

Go look at Unreal Tournament or Mafia 95 for examples of me doing horrible, horrible scum play.

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:24 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:The fact that you would say you played like crap doesn't sit right with me. I mean you yourself said that you were only beaten by the RB'er and would of won if he didn't get so lucky...

That was pretty much a last-ditch effort because I was totally obvious scum by day 5. I didn't have any chance left to win the endgame fairly, so I took a gamble on trying to put the town into a no-win kingmaker situation, and failed.

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:08 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:
Kmd4390 wrote:Xyl, why do you assume Kairyuu is lying? If you flip the same way as L, shouldn't Kairyuu get a result saying that you can night talk?
According to the mod, if I understood the response and Kairyuu's claim correctly, no.

BREAKING EDIT: The mod has sent me a PM about this a few hours ago
clarifying
confusing his earlier answer that a night-talk investigator would only learn about actual night talk, saying that that was a general answer rather than an answer about how it interacted with my role. (WTF? That was
the whole point of the question!
)
But if you come up the same way as L, and Stepho is L and talked last night, shouldn't Kairyuu get the exact result he got? Why is this reason to suspect him rather than confirm his role?

Because I checked with the mod and the mod gave an answer that I read as saying my role would not affect Kairyuu's result!

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:10 pm

Except now the mod tells me that his answer didn't actually answer my question about whether my role would affect the result. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:21 pm

Kmd4390 wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote: Because I checked with the mod and the mod gave an answer that I read as saying my role would not affect Kairyuu's result!
So what is the point in your role then? You show up how L does. Assuming L is town, a normal cop sees you as town. The only thing that makes sense if this doesn't affect Kairyuu's role is that you are investigation immune. With several investigative roles running around, that makes sense.

I'm assuming that the point of my role is to mislead scum role-cops.

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:26 pm

Kairyuu wrote:
Lamont_Cranston wrote:Hey Kai could you ask the Mod in-thread here about your role and get the Mod to answer you here so we can all see it?
It wouldn't be answered, or would be answered via pm. It also could potentially risk a modkill depending on my wording, so I'm not doing it.

@Xyl: So now the mod is refusing to tell you whether or not your millerdom would affect a cop looking for Night talk? That makes me quite uneasy. He answered my question without a problem, and was completely straighforward with me.

Why don't

you

PM the mod to ask what result you'd get on my role, and see if you get a straight answer?

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:15 pm

Lamont_Cranston wrote:Umm, KMD Xyl unvoted??

Kairyuu wrote:And I still haven't, because you're quite clearly lying scum here, and you're throwing up weak counter after weak counter to try to take down a cop on your way out. Not gonna work though. My position is sustainable. Yours isn't. It's checkmate. You were a worthy opponent, but you've been caught and exposed. It's over.
Well, if I get lynched, you die tomorrow. I presume there were enough scum left that you thought you could win with just one mislynch, at least until MBL got daykilled.

Xylthixlm -4 (kairyuu, Lamont_Cranston, stephoscope, xylthixlm)
Llamafluff -1 (Zwetrchenwasser)

Not voting: mykonian, Gorrad, LlamaFluff, Stephoscope, Kairyuu, DeathNote, Starbuck, Kmd4390, Knight of Cydonia, zwetchenwasser

If things go well, this next Friday should be very interesting.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Ummmmmm. Mod, you might want to double-check that.

Copy/Paste error on Kmd's vote, fixed.

Xylthixlm · Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:21 am

Yay I got a straight answer. Let's see if Kairyuu got one too.

Xylthixlm -3 (kairyuu, Lamont_Cranston, stephoscope)
Llamafluff -1 (Zwetrchenwasser)

Not voting: mykonian, Gorrad, LlamaFluff, Stephoscope, Kairyuu, DeathNote, Starbuck, xylthixlm, Knight of Cydonia, zwetchenwasser, Kmd4390

Once is once.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Xylthixlm · Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:37 am

I got that the inspection role would get whatever they would get from inspecting L.

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:32 pm

LlamaFluff lynch is obvious. Unsure about Kairyuu. That DeathNote wagon was way too fast.

vote: LlamaFluff

Xylthixlm · Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:03 pm

I wasn't counting, did Llama just hammer?

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:51 am

I'm pretty sure zwet is scum.

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:52 am

Starbuck wrote:
Xylthixlm wrote:I'm pretty sure zwet is scum.
Why?

Just... his overall pattern of play. He claimed Steph's targets way too easily. His claim also doesn't feel right. If he's a one-way lover, I'd expect that to be in the role PM of the player who suicides. I mean, it's not impossible, but it just doesn't seem like what Phate would do.

Xylthixlm · Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:59 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:Xyl, you're calling me scum based on outguessing the mod? Please.

No, I'm calling you scum based on a gut feeling. Outguessing the mod is just one part of it. (And for what it's worth, Phate plays on Xylbot a lot - one-way lover is not uncommon there.)