MtG: Parallel Universe Mafia (Tar's subgame): Game Over

[Vino]

/confirm

[Vino]

Random

Vote: Benmage

because he hasn't posted yet.

[Vino]

Unvote, Vote: Vino

for being blind.

Let's try again.

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

because he hasn't posted yet.

[Vino]

What's wrong with reading the other games? I figure since there will be roles that can go back and forth between games that everybody should keep up to date on all three games, because alignments don't change if people shift back and forth. I'd rather read things as they are posted then read an entire thread when someone changes games.

[Vino]

That was odd.

Still, that does not change the fact that you posted in the other topics when you didn't need to...

Nah. I was posting to get 'em on my watch lists. Easier to keep track of that way.

Benmage, do you have a planeswalker ability? If not, I don't see how much good claiming can do you.

[Vino]

How then do you expect to get over to the other game?

[Vino]

First of all, Papa Zito in FL's game brings up a good point:

1. We don't know if putting those two together will be detrimental to the town. There's a possibility of "When X and Y card are in play, Effect Z happens"

We probably don't want to test this theory. (PS FL stated in that thread that talking about other MTG games doesn't constitute a modkillable offense of talking about an ongoing game.)

Second, Benmage, what makes you think that somebody is going to give up their powers for a day just to fulfill

your

win condition? I don't really see what's in it for them. Claiming was dumb, your game should have been to try to convince the group that you needed to go

without

having to claim. Nobody's going to bother doing it now.

Third, this just illustrates my point about how we all should be reading the other threads.

Fourth, just highlighting this because it's humorous and for no other reason:

I'm for ignoring Benmage for now, but reserve the right to re-examine my decision at a later time.

@

Benmage

: Do you additionally have a Survivor Win Condition or do you ONLY win by re-uniting with your partner?

Didn't take you very long to re-examine your position, I suppose!

[Vino]

No I don't think so. It's a risky but reasonable tactic, except for the fact that now nobody will help you. Doesn't help to play the "won't get lynched or NK'd" card if playing it means that the only means you previously had to achieve your goal is no longer open to you. How did you expect to get one of you into another game if everybody is supposed to ignore you? What you're saying makes no sense. "Everybody ignore me -- except one person help me win even though it does nothing for you." Right...

[Vino]

Also:

And I'm Asuza, Lost but Seeking.

Not Phage. This is the soft claim, perhaps.

Sajin, Vino just quoted from our game already.

Yeah. This is really fun.

[Vino]

Fuck I had a busy weekend and now I have four pages to catch up on, in this thread alone. Chill out people!

[Vino]

First, I hate to comment on something happening in another MTG game, but I feel that this is important enough to be of pertinence to everybody even in this game.

my role is pretty clear about the other games having absolutely no impact on my success.

Except for the fact that, as far as I can tell, they aren't relevant except for how they alter this game - see getting rid of DDD.

Its not a function of post restrictions. My PM is very clear. I am here to win this game and bugger the other two.

The only reason I would have to care about them is if they impacted this one.

If I were in that game I'd vote SpyreX for this. Even so quickly into the game it's quite apparent that reading the other threads can provide insight into the roles and conditions in one's own thread, since many roles and conditions are dependent on things happening in other threads. The town win condition does indeed say "bugger to the other threads" as SpyreX puts it, but that doesn't mean that the town players shouldn't care about what town in other threads do. Those players may be transferred to your thread, or a player in another thread may be shown to have a link to a player in your own thread, providing valuable input on that player. Also, the fact of the matter is that while the three town factions win separately, there's only one scum faction that can day talk with each other, and most likely has members with planeshifting abilities or abilities that can affect planes other than the one a scum is in, and that will make it harder on town if we isolate ourselves. For example, if scum have a RB that can block anybody in any game (just making things up here) then if he dies in another game, he's not a threat to us here either, or if he's revealed in another game, then we know about him here too. It also prevents a scummy scum player from hopping to another game because things aren't going so well for him in his old one, and starting with a clean slate. In other words, we're all in this together. SpyreX is exhibiting behavior that is decidedly anti-town because if everybody does it, that thread will become a black hole and shut itself off from useful information, which will probably make that town faction lose. Scum wants each town faction to isolate themselves and limit information, to make it easier for them to manipulate everybody. I hope somebody copies this over to the other games so people who were thinking of not reading other games can be convinced otherwise.

(By the way, this also tells me that if SpyreX is town he probably doesn't have a role that affects the other subgames in any way.)

In any case, I know that the prevailing winds are to lynch Pyro, and I'm not particularly against that except to play the devil's advocate. He's done a lot of scummy stuff so far and he seems like a good lynch candidate, but he would be a mistake to lynch so quickly, for two reasons. One, we'd miss out on a lot of good information to be had in this early stage, and two, well fuck I forget two, but I had a good two. Anyway it's a bad idea to quicklynch D1, so I won't be joining that wagon.

I actually want to take a look Benmage. Someone mentioned in the other game that DDD has been acting fishy ever since Benmage spilled guts so much. It made me remember that technically, lovers tend to be one town and one scum. Perhaps the lovers mechanic in this game is slightly different, but I think the probability of one town one scum is still pretty high. The way it looks, if there was one scum in the mix it would probably be DDD, and he is trying to hide behind the lovers claim to get out of being scum and get a quick win ticket. Either way though, if we lynch either one of them, they both get removed, and we have about a 50/50 chance of removing a scum from our game. If the scum is in our game, great. If the scum is in their game, then we put some hurt on the scum over there, which I think can karma over to us quite well, since the scum are very well connected. If fl's game wants to take the risk to do the lynch themselves I would like that more, but I don't think it's too risky for us to do as well. In other words, I think Benmage is a good, safe lynch.

PS I'm SO glad we managed to skip the RVS so quickly, I hate it so much.

[Vino]

Wat an idiot.

[Vino]

After looking through the game again, I noticed that Vino never made a post in regards to the Pyromaniac bandwagon, which was the other noteworthy event of the day. Just curious as to why.

I was trying to find something to say, but I stopped understanding what was going on when the discussion turned to heavy MTG terminology, and I'm not that proficient at the game. And then the day ended so it seems like a moot point now. I'll address it D2 if it's still relevant.

I don't see what's so suspicious about Yosarian2? I think his logic concerning the ALLIANCE is sound, other than the fact that he can't seem to add properly (there's 4 people in the proposed alliance not 3 as has been saying) I'm not a big fan of such a concept either, and I think that particular alliance seems to be made out of a bunch of players I think are scummy.

[Vino]

Mufasa wants to join, but the proposed alliance is SpyreX, Porkens, Papa Zito, and populartajo.

[Vino]

This is the thing with Yos, that I've noticed, when he is scum and the scum team is doing well he coasts, but when the scum team is behind he is very aggressive in certain areas.

He does this as town too, from my experience with him, albeit only one game. He can get very passionate and wordy about something he feels strongly about.

My guy says he's scum, but I suppose there could be other explanations for what he is doing.

YOUR GUY?!? YOUR INSIDE MAN?!? Oooohhhh your

gut

.

[Vino]

Also, holy crap!

Too bad we're in night or I'd test to see if it works here as well.

[Vino]

Triple post for interestingness:

Will the cross-game votes show up in Tar and FL's games? Wouldn't mind a vote count in FL's game to see if that SpyreX vote shows up.

zwetschenwasser, if you can see this, what do you think might happen if a mod were lynched? Also, what made you think that might even be possible?

Also, might the mods be screwing with us by counting votes which will essentially not do anything? Like, even if we all vote on a player in another game the votes won't count towards a lynch in that game?

[Vino]

Hidden players? How is that supposed to work?

[Vino]

This game is complicated enough without that crap.

[Vino]

What? I thought Tar games are supposed to come with tea and crumpets.

[Vino]

Welcome Zito, HBD Tar.

I notice that nobody died in any of the other games. It remains to be seen whether mafia have no cross-game killing ability, or are simply not using it.

Omega, I had a busy weekend, and this game turned to a lot of Magic-related technical talk at the same time, so I had not much to say. You'll notice my posting fell off in all of the games I'm involved in, so not so much lurking as having friends in town. PS glass house.

Zito though, I don't see where your vote is coming from, care to explain?

[Vino]

Well that's just not true.

[Vino]

What is your obsession with me? I'll vote how I please and at the moment I see no cause to vote.

[Vino]

Sajin, I haven't been impressed by just about anybody in this game so far. I was particularly unimpressed with Kinetic before he died. I was previously unimpressed with Pyromaniac for things he said early D1, but no so much anymore.

Kairyuu, what case? Nobody's made any case.

[Vino]

Omega, your case is silly. Most of it is situational, a lot of it is just digging too deep and reading between the lines too much.

That's a bit odd to me. Either you forgot about it, or you were just being extra defensive. Not really sure which.

Digging. Maybe I saw no point in addressing it?

In other words, I think Benmage is a good, safe lynch.

Do you mean a good, safe mislynch?

Easy to say in retrospect. Town/mafia lovers are common, my argument was sound.

Zito though, I don't see where your vote is coming from, care to explain?

Going back to my previous point, defensiveness is not necessarily a scumtell. However, a post like this really makes sense from you if you're scum. You want to respond to every attack on you to allay suspicion, and then suddenly, you're voted without an attack, and that bothers you. You can't refute it, but you're worried he knows something. So, you ask him why he voted for you. I can see town doing it as well, but I think it's more likely done by scum.

Again, digging. The same actions make sense as town too. It's natural to want an explanation if somebody makes a vote and doesn't explain it.

You seem worried about Papa Zito's persistence, like he's on to you or something.

Digging, framing, misinterpreting..

I've done plenty in this game, I've had enough content and some good scum hunting despite how busy I've been. You're just ignoring that part of my post history and focusing on the stuff that makes me look scummy.

[Vino]

3. Vino is the most egregious offender; you are a close second. Also, the fact that attacking Vino has drawn you out of the woodwork is almost as interesting as Vino's lack of defense.

You really like to dig. Chainsaw defense is a valid scum tell, but nothing is scummy in isolation. He mentioned one idea that you might be wrong and now you're accusing him of being a scum partner? Any townie with his doubts could have done that. You're a terrible scum hunter.

Except it wasn't. Lovers in other games compared to this one are radically different.

How were we supposed to know that at the time? How do you know that they were not lying, as people are wont to do in Mafia games? Did you also forget how scummy DDD was acting? My point stands.

Along with a bunch of setup talk and speculation (all useful to town) here's two good scum-hunting posts for you.

Second, Benmage, what makes you think that somebody is going to give up their powers for a day just to fulfill your win condition? I don't really see what's in it for them. Claiming was dumb, your game should have been to try to convince the group that you needed to go without having to claim. Nobody's going to bother doing it now.

No I don't think so. It's a risky but reasonable tactic, except for the fact that now nobody will help you. Doesn't help to play the "won't get lynched or NK'd" card if playing it means that the only means you previously had to achieve your goal is no longer open to you. How did you expect to get one of you into another game if everybody is supposed to ignore you? What you're saying makes no sense. "Everybody ignore me -- except one person help me win even though it does nothing for you." Right...

I know it's not a shining beacon of pro-town activity, but I've been working 18 hour days for the past couple weeks, and you're lucky I haven't replaced out of the game.

Anyway I'm a doc. My night activities were blocked by Tar because of a mistake I made in submitting them.

[Vino]

I misread the role description so I gave him one target instead of two.

I'm Saffi Eriksdotter.

[Vino]

Beats me, I didn't even know I did until Tar rained on my parade.

[Vino]

Sorry guys. What have I not answered yet?

[Vino]

Oh. It was Yosarian, and I could target one person in this game and one person in another game, that's why I had two. Now, like I've already said, I don't have any readings on anybody in this game, so I didn't bother targeting someone in this game. Yosarian turned out to be a modkilled survivor, but I suppose it'd have been a good choice anyway since survivors need to work with town. That answer all standing questions?

[Vino]

I asked Tar about this and he says that it takes effect until the beginning of our next night.

[Vino]

My apologies for not being around this weekend to defend myself and in general, I got in over my head with this game.

PS Bah!

[Vino]

Cool I won a game for once, even though I played piss poorly in it!