MtG: Parallel Universe Mafia (Tar's subgame): Game Over

[ChaosOmega]

/confirm

[ChaosOmega]

vote: Mastin

[ChaosOmega]

This is one of the more active games I've been in. Let me try to catch up a bit.

First, in regards to Benmage claiming, I see no reason not to believe your claim, but I'm just wondering why you would claim like that. While it's true that it deters the town from lynching you and the scum from night-killing you, I would think it leaves you up shit creek in regards to actually fulfilling your win condition, because I can't see a reason for either side to go "Hey, I can move people between subgames, I should help this person not on my side win." While they wouldn't lose, it's not really helping them win, either. This was really just a rant because I thought the idea was sub-par.

However, I think the whole business with Benmage helped reveal a scum, so let me switch my vote to bandwagon him now.

unvote, vote: Pyromaniac

Looking through this thread, the majority of the posts so far have been discussing Benmage and what to do about him after his claim threw us out of the RVS. Pyromaniac is the only person who's advocating a lynch. Others have suggested it as a possibility, but it seems like he's trying to push it.

You could be I dunno a cult.

The image in my head is you having a dartboard with various scary things on it and accusing Benmage of whatever you happened to hit. It really seems like you just pulled cult arbitrarily out of your ass to try to get people worried and lynch him.

Also, I think he could be a cult recruiter because asking for no lynching him and BPV. That would give cult an auto win.

I have already explained why I think he is cult recruiter. I don't really think he is. I am just saying that I am not buying into this shit about not lynching him no matter what. I was saying what if he is cult recruiter? Obviously you can jump universes. There could be a cult recruiter in each universe.

More cult propagating with you being wishy-washy about the whole thing. It just seems like you're trying to force through a lynch on somebody that isn't scum.

[ChaosOmega]

Well, this would be the point where I unvoted because Pyromaniac's claim made a lot of sense to me in relation to him talking about a cult. But I guess that's not necessary, now. I like the thought behind Seraphim's plan, giving him enough rope to hang himself, just wasn't expecting to see this result.

After looking through the game again, I noticed that Vino never made a post in regards to the Pyromaniac bandwagon, which was the other noteworthy event of the day. Just curious as to why.

I'd also post something about Mastin, but I feel no need to anger myself.

[ChaosOmega]

Yeah, I probably should post more. My apologies.

Anyway, in reference to the scrambling of players done last night, it looks like we lost 1 player and gained 2. Since we were the only ones in night, it makes the most sense that it was all set in motion from people in this game. So either we have a player swapper and a player taker or two takers and a giver. I'd lean towards the former for the main reason that three roles doing all that just seems a bit unwieldy in design.

I think Pyromaniac is probably town, having gone back and looked through his completed games. His erratic, terse posting style is consistent with him, and not his play as certain alignments. Also, unrecruitable townie just sounds strange to me as a fake-claim. It's possible, but I don't see it as very likely.

unvote, vote: Vino

Mainly for lack of content day 1, and because I do enjoy throwing stones in my awesome glass house.

Well, there is a difference. I've only made 4 posts up to this one. Vino has made 20. Especially with the content of some of the posts, it strikes me as active lurking.

[ChaosOmega]

I will be v/la until the 17th. I might post, but it's fairly unlikely.

[ChaosOmega]

Would you like a case, Vino? Here's one. Let's go through your posting history this game:

0: confirm
1: random
2: another random vote
3: reading other games
4: watching/Benmage
5: Benmage
6: Benmage
7: Benmage
8: DDD/quoting
9: busy/no content
10: SpryeX/Pyro/Benmage

I want to stop here for a moment. This is an interesting post for two reasons. Here's what you posted about Pyro:

In any case, I know that the prevailing winds are to lynch Pyro, and I'm not particularly against that except to play the devil's advocate. He's done a lot of scummy stuff so far and he seems like a good lynch candidate, but he would be a mistake to lynch so quickly, for two reasons. One, we'd miss out on a lot of good information to be had in this early stage, and two, well fuck I forget two, but I had a good two. Anyway it's a bad idea to quicklynch D1, so I won't be joining that wagon.

For starters, it's pretty non-committal. You're not really taking a stand on his alignment, you're just stating things, like quicklynching is bad. Well thanks.

The more interesting thing is that later, I posted asking Vino why he hasn't commented on Pyromaniac at all day 1. I'm now aware this is false, as I missed this part of his post on my reread, but he responded as though my accusation was true:

I was trying to find something to say, but I stopped understanding what was going on when the discussion turned to heavy MTG terminology, and I'm not that proficient at the game. And then the day ended so it seems like a moot point now. I'll address it D2 if it's still relevant.

That's a bit odd to me. Either you forgot about it, or you were just being extra defensive. Not really sure which.

The other reason I found this post interesting was your opinion on Benmage. You proposed he should be lynched, and I've already discussed in regards to Pyromaniac why I see that as scummy. The difference here is that Pyromaniac looks to have a decent excuse for his reasoning. With his claimed role, it makes sense to worry about a cult. Here's your reasoning:

In other words, I think Benmage is a good, safe lynch.

Do you mean a good, safe mislynch?

Anyways, back to the post analysis.

11: no content
12: response to my Pyro comment; previously explained
13: other game/alliance talk
14: anecdote/useless
15: outside game voting
16: same
17: same
18: same
19: useless
20: defensive

Let's take a look at this post. This was after both Papa Zito and I voted you. Your response to me:

Omega, I had a busy weekend, and this game turned to a lot of Magic-related technical talk at the same time, so I had not much to say. You'll notice my posting fell off in all of the games I'm involved in, so not so much lurking as having friends in town.

Interesting how you defend yourself against something I didn't attack you for. I said that for all you posted, there was hardly any useful content (as I'm illustrating with this post), which I called active lurking.

I don't see defensiveness as a scumtell, as it makes sense for people regardless of alignment to defend themselves. My problem is in the way you defend yourself. I'm having problems explaining it, but it's like you're just pulling canned responses or something and just throwing them at whoever attacks you for any reason. You don't really interact with the case, you just brush it aside.

Zito though, I don't see where your vote is coming from, care to explain?

Going back to my previous point, defensiveness is not necessarily a scumtell. However, a post like this really makes sense from you if you're scum. You want to respond to every attack on you to allay suspicion, and then suddenly, you're voted without an attack, and that bothers you. You can't refute it, but you're worried he knows something. So, you ask him why he voted for you. I can see town doing it as well, but I think it's more likely done by scum.

21: response to Zito's attack

And may I say, one of the better rebuttals I've seen in a while:

Well that's just not true.

Well I'll be damned. I'm so glad you're here, Vino, clearing up things like that for us. How could we possibly have believed you've done nothing with such a thorough and useful response?

22: concern, avoidance
23: non-committal

You seem worried about Papa Zito's persistence, like he's on to you or something. You also refuse to answer his question, which allows you to sidestep having to state your suspicions of people in the game. Your next post continues the trend of not providing substantial opinions of any player.

So how haven't you been overwhelmingly useless?

[ChaosOmega]

vote: Vino

Easy to say in retrospect. Town/mafia lovers are common, my argument was sound.

Except it wasn't. Lovers in other games compared to this one are radically different. In this game, it was their win condition to join each other, they were a neutral party. Normally, lovers have town or scum alignment, win with that faction, and die if the other one is killed. Same name, but very functionally different.

I've done plenty in this game, I've had enough content and some good scum hunting despite how busy I've been. You're just ignoring that part of my post history and focusing on the stuff that makes me look scummy.

Ignoring that part of your post history? I covered all of your posts. If you want to enlighten me to your good scum hunting this game, I'd love to see it.

[ChaosOmega]

Why does your role need to target two people? Does that ability require you to sacrifice yourself?

[ChaosOmega]

My lack of contribution correlates to me starting school. Apologies for that. I should be able to post more frequently soon.

Anyways, I'm not really liking veerus too much. Post 427 looks appeasing, like he's just trying to get people off his case. His analysis on 416 is really wishy-washy, waffling on most everybody except Papa Zito.

[ChaosOmega]

Sorry to everyone, I slacked off like a bitch. I need to reread the thread and catch up. I have work until 10 and nothing to do, so expect something in a few hours.

[ChaosOmega]

I'm getting really bad vibes from veerus.

unvote, vote: veerus

I'm assuming that the people were moved into this game via scum, because no sane town person would have these people join our game. Because of this, I think they're just a distraction. I was suspicious of veerus on day 2, new suspicious people join our game, and he latches onto one of them. I definitely see the cases in voting for the people that moved into this game, but this influx just feels forced, and veerus jumping on qwints looks opportunistic.