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[Nuwen]

I also approve of double tracker + roleblocker today.

Also, I'm going to right now suggest that everyone do a serious read through of the setup again. There are a lot of complex mechanics to keep track of.

Vote Count 1.1.1

(0) Roleblocker-
(2) Tracker- Seraphim, crywolf
(0) PGO-
(0) Bus Driver-
(0) None-

not voting:

vollkan, crywolf, Ren Hoek, Nuwen, Seraphim, curiouskarmadog

4 to approve

Deadline for Day 1 is 6 PM EST August 4.

[Nuwen]

I never said I wasn't going to try and see if any of the people of the creative department act scummy during this stage. It's HIGHLY unlikely that any scum is going to let something slip during this phase, so my choice, barring anything extreme, is going to be basically random for today.

Wait, what?

It's extremely beneficial for scum to try and influence today's selected power roles, especially with PGO out there. A scum creative director can easily assign roles in such a way that they're neutered. Very specific example: one half of a creative team is scum, and a scum creative director assigns that team the sole tracking ability. The scum half of the creative team then submits the kill after selecting some other target to track with his or her town partner; this ensures that the night kill can't be tracked that night.

On a different note,

You have the one-shot ability to appoint a new Creative Director, regardless of whether the original Creative Director is still alive.

I'm reading to crack open our setup. This is an important ability to watch. If the CEO ever flips scum and has used this one-shot ability, I guarantee the new director is also scum. I think this switch mechanism is intended to balance two opposite factions in separate but equally powerful roles.

[Nuwen]

I never said I wasn't going to try and see if any of the people of the creative department act scummy during this stage. It's HIGHLY unlikely that any scum is going to let something slip during this phase, so my choice, barring anything extreme, is going to be basically random for today.

Wait, what?

It's extremely beneficial for scum to try and influence today's selected power roles, especially with PGO out there. A scum creative director can easily assign roles in such a way that they're neutered. Very specific example: one half of a creative team is scum, and a scum creative director assigns that team the sole tracking ability. The scum half of the creative team then submits the kill after selecting some other target to track with his or her town partner; this ensures that the night kill can't be tracked that night.

I'm highly aware of this.

If you're aware that scum will influence role decisions, how can you say that it's "highly unlikely" that there will be any evidence of of that behavior? A "slip" here does not have to mean "a careless mistake," it can be anything that leads to revealing scum, orchestrated play or not.

[Nuwen]

Also, Ren Hoek = TSQ

She's definitely not Shea.

should both tracker abilities go to the same creative team to mitigate the risk of scot being scum and the risk of 1/2 of a creative team being scum?

Probably - a double scum creative team is statistically less likely, increasing the chance that one tracking action will not be scum directed or neutered.

I can already say with certainty that Seraphim is scum. Our interaction in the QT makes it obvious:

Ren seizes Scot's "mostly random" bit.
Seraphim parrots "Exactly my thoughts. We definitely need to pursue this."
Cay says stuff.
Seraphim asks "Do you think we've caught scum in Scot?"
Cay says both are overreacting.
Ren asks if she's explaining well enough, clarifies mounting case
Seraphim: Overreacting is fun! And we can replace him anyway
Cay continues to call Ren's case a stretch.
Ren implies Cay's only reason to attack the case so hard is that Cay is scum with Scot.
Seraphim calls Ren's newer accusations against Cay a reach and is now game for lynching either Ren or Scot, Ren preferred.

Opportunism at its finest.

[Nuwen]

I can see utility is assigning PGO and tracker to the same creative team. That would prevent the risk of scum targeting that creative team for a kill, and preserve the tracker result.

options:
A: Tracker + PGO to same team (scum won't target for a kill)
B: Tracker + Tracker to same team (scum would kill one of the trackers, and the remaining partner could be scum)
C: Bussdrive Creative Director with patsy
D: Assign PGO and Bussdriver to same creative team, switch High Value Target with PGO.
E: Assign tracker to two different creative teams. Also assign PGO to one of those teams (leaves creative director exposed)

I'm wondering how important it is to preserve our creative teams - if two actions can be assigned per pair, we need four of them at most. Condensing actions to two teams tightens up result loops.

Role assignments should be kept as private as possible (i.e. between the creative director and each team, none of the teams should be aware of each other's roles). It's easier to pinpoint where information leaks are if fewer players are aware of each other's roles during day 2.

A set of tracker+PGO, roleblocker+pgo, and tracker+tracker all guarantee that we'll get

some

set of results tomorrow.

[Nuwen]

@Nuwen

How is my "oppurtunism" any more oppurtunistic than Ren's? Ren, in our quick topic and here, has accused three different players of being scum.

Gut, strongly influenced by your eagerness to sink your claws in any suspicion dropped in our QT. Right now, you're attempting to play off of Cay's OMUGSy attitude towards Ren and Ren's focus on Scot.

Let's examine that section of activity in our QT,

Seraphim

: Do you think we caught scum in Scot?

crywolf20084

: you guys are overreacting imho.

Ren Hoek

: Am I explaining it well enough in the thread?

If scotmany gives powers at random, because there is less scum than town, and more strikingly on Day 1, most powers should be in the hands on town, statistically.

If he does significantly WORSE than random, which he can do deliberately if he's scum, then he will escape scrutiny by blaming it on bad luck and his inability to find scum.

If we don't lynch him, we should shame him and manipulate him, if he's scum, into giving all the power roles to townies.

The other option is of course to lynch him.

Seraphim

: Overreacting is fun though.

Not to mention that the Creative Director is the only role that we can replace.

Ren Hoek

: @crywolf

Over reacting gets the game rolling. Why do you care so much about scotmany? Why are you bothered that we're pressuring him?

I find it hard to imagine a townie worrying about other player's over reaction to another player whose alignment this townie presumably doesn't know.

It's easier to imagine that you're scum with scotmany.

crywolf20084

: I'm not really particularly bothered, but I do think however he's not scum at this time. I haven't seen anything that he's said that has made me jump at him yet, but I will watch him with you guys.

I mean really, handing out roles at this time really would be slightly random. It's D1. Like when scot said that PGO at this time could be given to scum, its very true. We don't have a huge idea who's scum and who's not. Its the begining of the game, its like a random vote, only this has a bit more power.

Seraphim

: Yay for massive reaching! Whee!

crywolf20084

: i totally missed that you called me scum with scot.
@sera, who's reaching? me or ren?

Seraphim

: Ren accusing you of being scum with scot was total and complete reaching.

Seraphim

: Also, if one of Ren or myself is scum, Scot is definitely NOT scum. I don't think that any mafia player would try to discredit their creative director who is in such a powerful position.
Nuwen: Seraphim, do Ren's accusations against Cay alter your belief that Scot is scum?

Seraphim

: In all honestly, I think I want one of those two lynched later today. Ren is definitely reaching when he says Cayke is scum with scot.

Seraphim

: Honestly, if I had to make a choice between the two, I think Ren is more suspcious. I'm not going to state this in the thread yet though as I still want pressure on Scot. It is CRUCIAL that we make sure he is not scum.

Does anyone else see what I see? Seraphim is disinterested in pursuing each "suspicious" player for information and is more concerned with securing support for lynches.

[Nuwen]

How do you think WIHII reflected your "major weaknesses?" Your strengths?

[Nuwen]

from the signup thread:

Adel told me about these signups a day ago. The rules and roles seem a little complicated for my tastes, so I'd like to see the game run for a little while before I decide to jump into it.

/in to replace

I found the theme a bit overwhelming at first too.

Talking out finer points with Korts pulls everything together nicely.

@Nuwen: what were the finer points you talked about? What did you learn from that exchange with Korts?

My scumchat logs autoprune after they reach a specific size, lest they take over my hard drive. Korts' general gist was an explanation of the game's layout, role mechanics, department responsibilities - everything that's laid out in the setup outline, but in a more digestible format.

Yos: The only way the PGO poses a threat to the CEO is if he decides to use his one-shot ability to target the unknown PGO

today

. Since we've decided that the CEO shouldn't use his ability unless the CD dies or is otherwise compromised, there's no need for a new appointment to occur today barring the CD's death.

Presumably, the busdriver will be switching the CD/CEO with one of the mostly vanilla accounting team players. This 1) Accomplishes the goal of nixing any kill directed at our two most important power roles, either forcing the scum team to choose another kill or having their kill busdriven 2) Preserves the busdriver from hitting the PGO.

Yos, you should know better than identifying the PGO. Not only does that neuter his ability to protect the role role he's paired with (either tracker or roleblocker), it allows scum to maneuver their kill to avoid his counter-kill.

[Nuwen]

many

more details please. and quick.

That's all I've got; my memory is Swiss cheese. If Cay can find logs, nifty. Korts pitched the game in scumchat before typing up his signup thread, so we got to work through drafts and ask about little nuances like the order of action resolution.

Since no one seems to be keeping up with the fake vote count on role choices anyway,

Vote: Paranoid Gun Owner

.

[Nuwen]

Well...someone made a good point that identifying the PGO could be a problem since we won't know if the busdriver is town, and that's very valid; a scum bus driver who knows who the PGO is could lead to...problems.

How so? I'm under the impression that if the busdriver targets the PGO for a switch, the busdriver will be shot by the PGO. Scum or town, it's in the busdriver's survival interest

not

to target any of the creative teams for a switch.

Am I reading the busdriver's role correctly?

[Nuwen]

If the busdriver busdrives PGO and X he dies.
If the busdriver busdrives X and PGO he doesn't die.

I thought order only mattered for

tracking

purposes. A tracking role would only see the first target. The PGO's role indicates that any player who

targets

him will kick it.

Korts, clarification? If a Busdriver targets the PGO, will order affect whether or not the PGO's ability kills the busdriver?

[Nuwen]

How on Earth did I miss that.

Revising my diagram of doom, one second.