Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[hasdgfas]

/moo

[hasdgfas]

vote: Empking

because he's anti-town.

[hasdgfas]

This is completely ridiculous. We should not get 4 pages in a day, especially a day where I'm literally working all afternoon and don't get a chance to check in.

@L_C, and anyone else who does this that I may have missed:

If you're responding to a quote, please don't respond in the quote tags. Thanks. It makes it so much easier on everyone.

Anyway, L_C's defense of Vino in 76(?) with no reasons whatsoever is pretty laughable and extremely scummy, as there's no reason to defend him at all.
In addition, Korlash's behavior in

one

other game should have nothing to do with this game.

FoS

Then, his post 93 is kinda weird, as "support of the wagon" is something that's always been a bit iffy. "supporting a wagon" seems like something scum would do to seem town by expressing suspicion without drawing attention to themselves by voting. Not to mention it's because he "looks fun to play with". How does that have anything to do with the reason you expressed suspicion of him earlier?

Now his post 103. Hold the phone. First you played with him before, then you didn't? Or was it someone else who said he played with Emp?
Mid-swing, lol. Honestly, it's enough contribution to get discussion started, isn't it?

Re: tss's 106: Please elaborate on your vote on roflcopter, as I don't know what you're saying here.

LC's post 107: you know, I really dislike when people say "interesting" without explaining why it's interesting. Please elaborate.

Vino's Post 110: A) Don't use sarcasm in mafia, because people can't tell it's sarcasm. And you seem way too nonchalant.
Plus:

I'm not worried about bandwagons or actually being able to find any scum. It's all finger pointing and there's way too little information to assert any scum as having been found. I love how people make such a big deal about the smallest things early in the game.

This entire quote makes me raise my eyebrows. Making a big deal out of "small things"

is mafia

. I don't know how you play mafia. Why are you so unworried about votes on you? Seems like overconfident scum to me.


And then I see that Tar has said a lot of this already.


L_C's post 114 literally ticks me off. Starting off making fun of tar, then belittling his arguments. Not really how I want to see a defense. Plus, I don't really see any defense in there other than "NO UR RONG"

And Santos's 116 is, quite literally, worse than empking's post, because santos is trying to look like he's posting content without actually posting content, and empking wasn't trying at all.

SensFan comes in and votes while giving reasons but not really.

IGMEOY

Sironigous comes in and says "I'm not doing anything LOL".

FoS

Mufasa blatantly says "wagon vote". I hate this.

FoS

Empking with a decent post :O

tss's 121 says SensFan's post is a lie without explaing why. Not to mention he

still

doesn't explain why he thinks fishy and vino are being set up for a 1-2 mislynch.

Korlash on the money is 126. tss is fosing himself.

While I agree with most of Percy's 129

Ideally, everyone should be posting once per day with critical analysis of the game. That would be awesome.

is just naive and idealistic.(I realize he says "ideally", but still) That's never going to happen.


LC, please don't multi-post like this. Either leave it for later or put it all together.

tss's 137: just because nobody has put a case on him doesn't mean he's not scummy.

Posts 141-143 are completely ridiculous and useless. No content at all, although delathi's are understandable.

Post 146 by Vino: I'm not sure why you're voting for SensFan here? at all?

personally, I'm not quite sure who to vote for at this point, as quite a few people are acting scummy.

unvote, vote Sirigonius

for saying "hi, I'm here but not contributing"

[hasdgfas]

Post 146 by Vino: I'm not sure why you're voting for SensFan here? at all?

Because I want to. I sense a subtle defense of SensFan from you, what's the deal?

I want to know why you're voting someone. I'm not trying to defend him because I seriously don't understand the reasons you're voting for him.

Not to mention, the entire first part of this post is probably the scummiest thing this game. Care about what you say beacuse the other players do, and will attack you for it. You can't just dismiss them by saying "everyone finds me scummy all the time".

@L_C:

Did you elaborate at all on the post where you said "Very interesting"? Because if so, I must've missed it. In addition, I don't recall seeing anything about how astoundingly bad your ad hom on tar was. That's seriously scummy dude.

@L_C 166:

I asked nicely the first time. Don't answer questions inside long quotes. Nobody wants to read that. It makes it much easier to quote everything if you quote what you want to answer and answer it there. I'm serious. Not to mention I can tell what's your current post as opposed to old posts.
Not to mention claiming something someone called you out on as a null tell? Seriously? First off, nulltells/towntells are not a good thing to be using. Second off, you can't claim something you said is a null tell after someone finds it scummy, especially without evidence. Have you done it as scum and town? Where? Do you have links?
Also, more ad hom, more "defense"


And Santos comes in with nothing again.


Re: LC's 174: He's really jumpy. I wonder why, with all the time he has for other posts, like responding to Tar, for instance, he doesn't take a couple minutes to make sure his vote is on the right person.
Re: LC's 175: Why is that so interesting? What does the banter about a previous game have to do with this one?

[hasdgfas]

Am I the only one noticing how LC is literally just voting anyone he possibly can, then moving on if it doesn't stick?

Nope, I mentioned that earlier this page, although not in those words.

[hasdgfas]

vote: Santos

for a reaction completely out of the blue with him insinuating I want a claim.

[hasdgfas]

So, whats wrong with claiming? Oh, the mafia are scared of claiming, forgot.

Vote: hasdgfas

there's no reason for you to just jump completely out of sorts when I keep mentioning that you haven't contributed anything this game.

[hasdgfas]

FoS: tajo

first off, we have a list of

everyone

with where he places them on a scum scale. Always scummy, because it's just so.......out there. It only helps scum. If anyone wants me to explain why, I can, but if everyone understands what I'm talking about, I'll just leave it there.

And then he decides to defend people using the "random stage" defense. Uggh, It's nearly impossible to explain just how scummy that is.

[hasdgfas]

FoS: tajo

first off, we have a list of

everyone

with where he places them on a scum scale. Always scummy, because it's just so.......out there. It only helps scum. If anyone wants me to explain why, I can, but if everyone understands what I'm talking about, I'll just leave it there.

And then he decides to defend people using the "random stage" defense. Uggh, It's nearly impossible to explain just how scummy that is.

First, I always do scumlists. Its not scummy at all. Also, what do you mean with it only helps scum?

Do you have links of games where you're town and scum where you do scumlists?
One of the main things I look for when figuring out if something's scummy or not is whether it'd help the town if the whole town did it. With scumlists, it doesn't help the town, because it tells scum who the townies think is town, and doesn't let the more townie players live to later days.

Second, about the random voting stage, do you at least know what I am talking about?

Vino and Lammont started attacking Fish, rolf, Korlash and me because we joined a wagon in random voting stage. What is so scummy in joining a wagon in random voting stage? Explain it please.

"RVS"(which is crap, IMO, and why I hate people using it as a defense, because it's still a real part of the game), is a great time for scum to let their guard down and do something scummy that they can then use "Random stage" as a defense in.

@Tar:

Try not to take Medieval as my normal play, because I was never fully caught up in that game and had to be replaced. Sure, I did summary posts in it, but iirc, you said in that game that you'd seen me do them in other games and thought me town because of it.

[hasdgfas]

1) tajo always does this

fine, then I'll drop it. If he always does it, it's a null-tell, even if it's an anti-town action.

Second, about the random voting stage, do you at least know what I am talking about?

Vino and Lammont started attacking Fish, rolf, Korlash and me because we joined a wagon in random voting stage. What is so scummy in joining a wagon in random voting stage? Explain it please.

"RVS"(which is crap, IMO, and why I hate people using it as a defense, because it's still a real part of the game), is a great time for scum to let their guard down and do something scummy that they can then use "Random stage" as a defense in.

So whats exactly scummy in RANDOM bandwagoning Vino the way rolf, me and Korlash did?[/quote]
Is there anything to your defense other than "it was the random stage"?

[hasdgfas]

hascow, please respond to this

3) if your problem is that it clues scum in on who people think are town, how on earth does that make the action scummy??

instead of ignoring it

because it only helps scum.

additionally, please answer the bolded section of this

So whats exactly scummy

in RANDOM bandwagoning Vino the way rolf, me and Korlash did?

instead of putting the burden of proof on tajo

I'm planning on it. I want tajo to answer my question first.

[hasdgfas]

I am Man with a Hat from:

XKCD Comics

Do you have any flavor as to why you are a cop?

[hasdgfas]

Well amusingly & appropriately enough, I am a 'jackass' and once a night I can break the laws of physics and peek someone.

that doesn't fit at all with the comic Vino posted.

I was referring to your claim of seeing a defense of SensFan. Where did that come from?

Thought you meant, I gave no defense to what he said. As far as him defending SensFan, it was very subtle like I said:

tss's 121 says SensFan's post is a lie without explaing why. Not to mention he still doesn't explain why he thinks fishy and vino are being set up for a 1-2 mislynch.

... an implication that tss was wrong about SensFan

no it's not. It's saying that he said something but didn't elaborate on it.

Post 146 by Vino: I'm not sure why you're voting for SensFan here? at all?

... or, "there's nothing to attack SensFan for." Or, counter-attacking in defense of a friend.

Or, "I don't know why you're voting SensFan" which is completely different from "there's nothing to attack him for"[/quote]

[hasdgfas]

He has still not explained at this stage why HE HIMSELF believes both the initiator of the wagon and the target of the wagon is town,

Because I believe the scum were steering the wagon to get the target lynched and hoping to be able to use the fact of mislynch to get the initiator lynched. If they wanted to do that, neither of the two is in their group. Nothing could be simpler.

But you still haven't mentioned why you think the initiator of the wagon and the target of the wagon are town. You're explaining that you think scum are leading the wagon to the mislynch of a townie. This is a circular argument. Your argument leads back to the original question. Why do you think Fishy and Vino are town?

I have not fully explained why I think this was a setup for a 1-2: because those "sound reason for a bandwagon" posts looked to me like they might be cop fishing. Maybe they thought that "I thought he was a cop and had a guilty! Now that he's not, I'm suspicious of him!" or something similar would help get them votes on day 2, or maybe they honestly thought he might be one. (The rofl group knows that Lamont is not one of theirs, but that in no way ruled out a rival scum group.) Now that Lamont has claimed cop, I can safely say that without worrying about putting ideas into people's heads.

So:
A) you believe Lamont. Why? Or did you say that and I missed it?
B) cop fishing? as rofl says, it's day 1. We had an NPC die, nothing else happens. How could you possibly think this seriously unless you're just floundering?

[hasdgfas]

@Has, what exactly are we discussing? You think the "random stage" excuse is for voting someone is crap. Its not. I repeat. What is so scummy in joining a wagon in random voting stage? Explain it please.

There's nothing inherently scummy about joining a wagon in "RVS". However, you can't jump on a wagon, and then later say "but it was the RVS." That just doesn't work. You have to have a reason for jumping on the wagon to make it not look like scum bandwagoning with no chance of getting called out on it because it was the "RVS".

[hasdgfas]

@Has, what exactly are we discussing? You think the "random stage" excuse is for voting someone is crap. Its not. I repeat. What is so scummy in joining a wagon in random voting stage? Explain it please.

There's nothing inherently scummy about joining a wagon in "RVS". However, you can't jump on a wagon, and then later say "but it was the RVS." That just doesn't work. You have to have a reason for jumping on the wagon to make it not look like scum bandwagoning with no chance of getting called out on it because it was the "RVS".

Kay, has I think I get your idea. I did have a reason (semidecent/semijoke but at the end a reason) to jump to that wagon. I agreed with fish analysis of Vino's first posts.

I just think that trying to find 100% serious reasons in a random bandwagon is a fruitless idea. People trying to paint these votes as a wagon infiltrated by scum eager to set a mislynch in page 2-3, and specially when it was a wagon in random stage, really bother me.

has, this is the first random bandwagon you see in mafiascum?

Not at all, I mean, I've been here nearly two years. The difference is, people usually defend with serious reasons as opposed to "it was random stage" like you did, because there are often serious reasons to jump on a "random bandwagon" because, and here's a real shocker, it's not actually random. You made a concious decision to get on the wagon, and you need to be able to defend that decision.

[hasdgfas]

Makes a lot more sense than that breadcrumb, especially with the flavor of the role.

unvote, vote lamont

[hasdgfas]

Lamont is scum.

unvote, vote: Lamont_Cranston

Retarded bread crumb.
Also, I'm the town cop.

Quints is scum that somehow thinks one scum is a gr8 trade for a town cop.

He is wrong and will be lynched either today or tomorrow.

Go town!

Unvote, Vote Quints

ha. haha. hahaha.

[hasdgfas]

vote: Vino

for "This sucks"

[hasdgfas]

Vote; Percy

- For trying to get out of the consequences of hammering the town cop.

any elaboration here? I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

[hasdgfas]

HH, please don't answer questions for other players. It's extremely scummy. Thanks.

[hasdgfas]

Stop protecting me hasdgfas I can look out for myself!!!

I'm not protecting you, I'm saying you're acting scummy.

[hasdgfas]

Vote; Percy

- For trying to get out of the consequences of hammering the town cop.

any elaboration here? I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

The "I thought he was a Day-Cop with a guilty verdict.)

could you explain how that is "trying to get out of the consequences of hammering the cop"?

[hasdgfas]

could you explain how that is "trying to get out of the consequences of hammering the cop"?

He chose to hammer the likely cop but is now claiming to have hammer'd a guilty investigation.

"likely" cop? How was he "likely" cop?

[hasdgfas]

VOTE:Roflcopter

Even with the premise of Percy being possible scum (I still don't know which way to read him yet), I disapprove of setting up multiple lynches.

Could you explain further? I mean, I implied from his statements that he was going to, you know, make a case if he needed to, so its not really setting up lynches.

[hasdgfas]

rofl

,

has

,

SC

,

populartajo

and

fishy

jump back on the L_C wagon

without saying

anything

, except for populartajo who says:

In the unlikely but still possible scenario that Lammont is indeed a town cop, the doc should still protect qwints since its very likely he is the town cop.

So I'd like to ask

those voters

why they thought that even though the issue of not being sane and not being alone had been raised, why they were willing to jump on the wagon with no discussion.

I completely didn't see this in your wall for a few reasons. One of which, if you're going to shorten my name, please use

hasd

, because then it doesn't look like a normal, accidentally bolded word. Or just use cow or hascow

Lamont's breadcrumb was so completely complex that I really thought it was something he had thought of out-of-game to use in a game for a good fake breadcrumb when he was scum. However, I was willing to see if we could figure out his alignment based on results and later actions. However, with the counterclaim, I figured that Lamont was scum.

[hasdgfas]

rofl

,

has

,

SC

,

populartajo

and

fishy

jump back on the L_C wagon

without saying

anything

, except for populartajo who says:

In the unlikely but still possible scenario that Lammont is indeed a town cop, the doc should still protect qwints since its very likely he is the town cop.

So I'd like to ask

those voters

why they thought that even though the issue of not being sane and not being alone had been raised, why they were willing to jump on the wagon with no discussion.

I completely didn't see this in your wall for a few reasons. One of which, if you're going to shorten my name, please use

hasd

, because then it doesn't look like a normal, accidentally bolded word. Or just use cow or hascow

Lamont's breadcrumb was so completely complex that I really thought it was something he had thought of out-of-game to use in a game for a good fake breadcrumb when he was scum. However, I was willing to see if we could figure out his alignment based on results and later actions. However, with the counterclaim, I figured that Lamont was scum.

Not to mention,

I didn't jump on the wagon without saying anything.

Please look at the post I voted LC. I explained why. Are you just throwing things trying to make them stick?

[hasdgfas]

Ok, looking back a bit....

Lynch Percy.
If he flips town, lynch me next, I'll self-vote.
If he flips scum - lynch Korlash.

If you are town, why on earth would you suggest that you self-vote?
If you are town, the only person you know is town is yourself(barring strange roles and such).
Therefore, you are going to want to not be lynched, and you especially don't want to push a lynch on someone you know is town(yourself).
So again I ask. If you are town, what is the town reason for this statement?

I see Percy asked you this, but you have just ignored it. Please answer now.


Looking back even further....

Threatening to replace out of the game because someone is making you cry? In my book that's called "pulling a farside22," except that it wouldn't be a town tell this time.

First off, no explanation as to why it isn't a town tell. Second off, he's missing the entirety of the issue here, that it's not a game-related issue. Seems like trying to throw anything at SensFan.
I'm going to look at Vino to see if this is consistent with what he's been doing all game.

ok, so Vino(putting this in quote tags, read the summary if you don't need to read the whole thing:

He starts by asking a really weird question about whether this is a day start game or not. To begin with, it said in the flavor post that it's Day, second, it just feels like you want it to be night, which I don't see a town reason for.
He continues by being extremely nonchalant about being voted or even finding scum(!). I missed this the first couple times I looked at this post. I'll quote it so you can all see it.

At this point, I'm not worried about bandwagons or actually being able to find any scum. It's all finger pointing and there's way too little information to assert any scum as having been found. I love how people make such a big deal about the smallest things early in the game.

Look at that closely. Not only is he seemingly unconcerned about being voted(a common tactic by scum so they can seem town), he says that he's not worried about finding scum now, which can also be read as "let's not bother looking for scum now" which is anti-town at the very least, and at most, extremely scummy. He then dismisses the attacks on him as unfounded because there isn't enough information.

He then attacks SensFan, who's not even on his wagon for being on his wagon. weird attack count: 1
More nonchalantness about being voted, then a bunch of theory, which doesn't help the game at all.

calling me out on a defense of sens. weird attack count: 2

Another interesting thing I've noticed right around here.
Vino says he can never glean anything from early pages, and yet then he comes out with a good old conspiracy theory about how fishy and one of the other people on his early wagon are scum.
I thought you couldn't get good information from the early pages, Vino? Change your mind that quickly?

blatant misrep of rofl. weird attack count: 3


we saw the "this sucks"

NK speculation.

the attack on sens that I mentioned before this isoread. weird attack count: 4

follows the town's leaning in thinking Percy is now acting strange.

Then "I can see Percy being town, but I can also see him being scum, so even though I don't really know what I think, I'm going to vote him"

"Hey, Tar agrees with me about Sens. Remember how I said that?"

so, summarizing Vino.
He has a lot of weird attacks on people, which feel like him trying to make anything stick that he can on certain people.
He stated that he doesn't think there's much to be gleaned from the early pages, but he has this weird conspiracy theory about the early wagon on him and how people are scum because of it. He even stated that he wasn't worried about finding scum in the early pages, yet he tries to find scum based on the early pages. Contradiction?
He was

way

too nonchalant about being bandwagoned, but he still tried to find scum from it. Why were you so unworried about your wagon early if you thought there was scum on it? What took so long?


Anyway, I think I'm going to do a D2 reread, looking closely at things like the Percy case/wagon to try to figure out what's going on, as I don't fully understand it.

[hasdgfas]

If Percy turns out to be innocent - I fully expect to be lynched. I've pushed his case very hard and if he's innocent then I look really bad - I understand and accept that.

I offered the deal to show just how sure I am about Percy being scum. I am very confident Percy will flip scum and I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is.

Your summary of the motivation as town doesn't include a townie who is close to sure he's found scum and is doing literally almost everything he can think of to try to get people to see it how he sees it. I've been frustrated by what I feel is an apathetic town.

Your summary (and also that of a few others, I think Sajin was one) fails to describe how my action makes sense as scum. If Percy is town, I die, which is a lot worse as scum than it is as town. If he's scum, I'm going ridiculously out of my way to bus him or there's multiple scumgroups and he's from another group and there's some ridiculous play being made where I hunt scum in a completely over the top manner. I think all of those plays are far less worthwhile than the one I'm making as town.

As much as you find the risk that we get 2 innocent lynches not optimal play,
a) I'm confident enough in my read to risk it (knowing I'd likely be the lynch anyway if he flips town) and
b) I think coming at it assuming I'm scum makes even less sense.

It makes sense as scum because you can WIFOM us into thinking it doesn't, leading us to not lynch you.
However, you're really, really quick to assume that we'd lynch you for pushing a lynch on someone who turned out to be town. Why do you think that you'd likely be the lynch if Percy flips town?

[hasdgfas]

huge

FOS: Mufasa

mentioning that you think someone is modkilled is extremely anti-town and scummy.

[hasdgfas]

First off, I don't know what the big deal about Santos is. He's obnoxious but this is the internet people. I would think you'd be a little more thick-skinned.

game attacks are not the same as personal attacks. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. Personal attacks are anything but fun.

people were concerned our prs were doing crap work.

And how does claiming with no reason help that?

[hasdgfas]

nope I clearly did state my soft claim but he was trying to find it necessary to have more information, but whatever.

you consider that a "soft" claim? Ha.

[hasdgfas]

Not to mention, I didn't jump on the wagon without saying anything. Please look at the post I voted LC. I explained why. Are you just throwing things trying to make them stick?

FoS: Has

Well, this defense could have been much less offensive - I don't understand why you said it like this...

Why is this FoS worthy? I really don't understand.

I phrased it like that because he called out 5(or so) people because they jumped on the wagon without saying anything, and I had, so it felt like Percy was trying to just throw suspicion on everyone with no good reason, since I had said something when I voted for him.

[hasdgfas]

If Sens or Tzeentch flip scum, then the other is scum as well (and Santos' replacement is pro-town). There was no reason for lurker-Tzeentch to act like Santos was causing him such grief when he's barely in the thread. So far, I don't see where Tzeentch has commented on what others have said, so... again, no reason for him to make a big stink about Santos, if for no other reason than to get Santos off Sens' back.

I'm not a fan of this, because it's really weak.
Why is it scummy that he doesn't want to deal with Santos's posts?
Even without posting, he still has to read them.

[hasdgfas]

@Hascow, what do you think of Percy's slip?

I feel like, while it is rather odd, I'd rather lynch someone else today, because I can't make heads or tails of the rest of the case, and I think Vino is scummier.


Also, Kise is now scummier too.

HoS: Kise

.

Yes, I mean it. Your pre-emptive OMGUS was the clincher.

[hasdgfas]

Ben Franklin's Clone, Dr. McNinja.

Mod: V/LA from tomorrow until August 7th. I might be able to post until Sunday, but no promises

[hasdgfas]

767 reads to me exactly like scum trying to make a stream-of-consciousness post that shouldn't be considered scummy because it's SoC, but I find that the vast majority of that post is ridiculously scummy, and he hasn't done anything this game that makes me think he's town. If people really want me to go through and find specifics, I can, but I think it's clear.

vote: Sironigous

Also, I only remember seeing "Percy Scum -> Korlash Scum", not the other way around. Can someone point me in the right direction of that if it exists? If not, I feel Percy is slightly higher on the town side of the scale at this point.

Don't like Vino's 764 either, tbh. Withholding(sp?) info from the town as well as complaining about how the kills have gone? Ugh. I'm also not sure how wanting a nameclaim is rolefishing(since it's so blatant) and why that's voteworthy, or what his other reasons are.

[hasdgfas]

You've already claimed, Vino, that's different than me claiming now. More info from you can only help the town.

[hasdgfas]

How?

well, as I'm not sure which part of the question you're referring to...

1) It's different than me claiming now because that adds info that can only help the scum, with unnecessary claims(which I could definitely explain further, but I really hope I don't)

2) More info from you can only help the town because you've already claimed, therefore, the scum already know the important parts of your role, and all info you claim gives the town more info to either find out that you're lying, or help figure out the game.

[hasdgfas]

How can it do that at a later date and not now if you already have the information, is what I'm trying to get at

[hasdgfas]

- hasdgfas (intuition says he's Discontinued; was extremely noncomittal during D2 at any rate)

First off, do you still trust your intuition after all your thoughts on setup stuff yesterday were wrong?
Second, noncommittal on what, exactly?

[hasdgfas]

Flavor of head hanchos claim fits in with one of the kill methods really really well.

Death ray'd, or something else?

[hasdgfas]

Then you go ahead and say "percy->korlash" is the same as "korlash->percy", which is immense logic fail.

no, its not. percy scum meant korlash scum because korlash was derailing a percy lynch / chainsawing against sc. therefore korlash scum means percy scum because

korlash was derailing a percy lynch / chainsawing against sc

. its valid in both directions because the best explanation for korlash's actions is that

you're both scum

.

Ok, that makes sense. I don't recall seeing that anywhere else. I'm also not a fan of Percy, because I seem to recall him throwing random accusations at people a couple times, although I'd have to look back a bit to be sure.

[hasdgfas]

Its not the post amount but rather the post aggressiveness of Percy. It does not match his town meta imo.

Links?

[hasdgfas]

How I feel about Percy tomorrow would depend to a great extent on what happens in the night.

You.

Why.

Town is in NO position to lose another power role at all, especially one that relates to non-town players.

Two HoS's: Fishythefish

WIFOM is preventing me from voting; why would you softclaim like that?

What are you talking about?

[hasdgfas]

Tar: Asking a lot of questions is how I often play, when I feel like I have nothing to jump on.

Empking. Seriously. Read Tar's post. There's a clear main point on rofl.

Sajin: What about the people on the rofl wagon do you dislike?

[hasdgfas]

Tar: Asking a lot of questions is how I often play, when I feel like I have nothing to jump on.

Empking. Seriously. Read Tar's post. There's a clear main point on rofl.

Sajin: What about the people on the rofl wagon do you dislike?

HH is voting ROFL and I think he is scum. I would perfer a HH wagon over a Percy wagon by far.

if there are two scumteams, couldn't both be scum? why does HH alone make you not want to vote rofl?

[hasdgfas]

hascow appears to be encouraging the wagon on me from the sidelines, but i can't seem to recall him actually voting. overcautious scum.

I actually don't like your wagon either, I just dislike Sajin's reason for not getting on.

[hasdgfas]

hascow appears to be encouraging the wagon on me from the sidelines, but i can't seem to recall him actually voting. overcautious scum.

The copter is correct here.

thanks for completely ignoring my post above.

[hasdgfas]

Why wouldn't we ask for a full claim? If he's genuine, scum already know he's a pr. If he's not genuine, it'll define him into a corner.

Full claim please.

disagree. I feel like there's something extremely useful for the town that's better if it's hidden in this case. Just a hunch.

[hasdgfas]

Tar is basically confirmed town for me.

I'd love to see some reasoning behind this please. Tar is nowhere near confirmed town, IMO. In fact, I'm getting bad vibes from him.

I'm definitely happy with my vote.

[hasdgfas]

While I'd love to defend myself against Tar, I can't, as I have no idea why he's suspicious of me.

[hasdgfas]

While I'd love to defend myself against Tar, I can't, as I have no idea why he's suspicious of me.

- You haven't shown any initiative this game; the players you questioned were Lamont (already under pressure at time), tss (same), Serial Clergyman (same), Vino (same), and Sironigous (same). Only clear initiative I see is a WTF towards Mufasa and a quibble towards poptajo. That doesn't look like scumhunting to me,much less to the little nagging figurative voice in the back of my head. (In particular, I haven't seen you attack ANYONE who I consider remotely likely to be scum - Lamont, TSS, and poptajo flipped town before D2, Mufasa flipped town last night, Vino and SC look very likely town. Empking's the shadiest player you've attacked, and that seems to be a direct response to his poorly-stated case on Percy.)

So basically, it's scummy to be suspicious of players who are scummy? what? Next, just because you don't consider someone remotely likely to be scum doesn't mean that I don't. Plus, while Sironigous might be considered suspicious to a bunch of people, I am currently the only one voting for him, and have been for some time. How's that for initiative?

- You've been defending Percy (and to a lesser extent SensFan and Tzeentch, in that order) since they came under fire during Day 2. Why is that? (Also note that if you flip Discontinued, I'm DAMN sure that Percy and SensFan are both Discontinued as well.)

Could you please point out where, as I don't recall defending either Sens or Tzeentch, and, honestly, Percy either, as it's more been me having no idea what the case on him is.

- Little nagging voice says that your long summary post early Day 1 comes from same mindset as similar summary post in Medieval - specifically, has-scum who's fallen behind a bit.

I've said this before, I'll say it again. Do not use Medieval to meta me. It is by far the worst game I've

ever

played, and the only reason I didn't replace out during D1 when i couldn't catch up was because it was OGML-mod. Not to mention that A) I do summary posts in every game I'm in when it involves a lot of catching up, B) I seem to remember you calling me town for my summary post in Medieval due to the fact that you'd seen me do it before, and C) It was one day's worth of posts as opposed to the lots more than that in Medieval, iirc

[hasdgfas]

hurk

unvote vote empking

he's been defending himself while analyzing much more actively than most people in this game, so I don't get what that even means.

Could you explain why that is voteworthy please?

[hasdgfas]

hurk

unvote vote empking

he's been defending himself while analyzing much more actively than most people in this game, so I don't get what that even means.

Could you explain why that is voteworthy please?

Because um, I think it makes Emp's call for more votes on Percy suspect if his reasoning is false.

that doesn't even fit with your reason.

[hasdgfas]

EBWODP: Pressed post too early.

All: Do you think I am town, neutral, or scum? Why?

why is this a useful question for town to ask, Tar? I feel like the only motivations for it are scum-driven.

[hasdgfas]

Expect a GIGANTIC WALL POST sometime between Sunday/Monday.

only if it's a good, informative wall post as opposed to a Mastin.

[hasdgfas]

I'm willing to see where this goes.

Vote: Percy

what.

[hasdgfas]

Frankly, I'm more worried about the fact that Gorrad seems to be inactive than I am about player inactivity.

This is my big issue with this game right now. We have players who haven't posted in months and a mod in MIA. It's not helping matters.

I know I have been slacking lately as well, just having a hard time caring about this game when so many others don't.

^this

[hasdgfas]

gah, empking is trying to throw dirt on confirmed town?

vote: empking

[hasdgfas]

gah, empking is trying to throw dirt on confirmed town?

vote: empking

Vote; Has

For lying.

aha. haha. hahahahahaha.

[hasdgfas]

One more thing - do you guys think that the discontinued mafia is the only mafia?

*headdesk* are you reading the game?

FoS

[hasdgfas]

Vanilla, because none of my awesomeness is applicable to this game.

Sajin.

Also, those who haven't claimed flavor really should.

[hasdgfas]

also I disagree that sajin should be able to pick who hammers him, I think we should 'vote' on it as a town, majority rules just like with a lynch.

here's the thing.
If he's town, he's the only person he knows is town, and therefore we have a town member deciding who else dies.
If he's scum, it doesn't matter who hammers him, because we'll have dead scum.

[hasdgfas]

Prodded. I'm not really sure what to add at this point - I've been finding it difficult to get a handle on this game. Perhaps if people have questions for me to answer, it'll help?

who do you think is scum?

[hasdgfas]

So you think there's only one scum team, Sajin?

Based on kill flavor I would figure there to be a SK (who erases) and a mafia team making the kills.

What do you think?

are you reading the game?

[hasdgfas]

In fact, of the three I think hascow has the meta of someone a lot more useful than he has been (no offense, just how I'm reading it - you kinda expect Emp to be Emp.)

None taken, I agree with you. This game has been pretty awful for me, actually, and I'm not sure why.

In addition, that entire post made me feel quite a bit better about SC compared to the read I was getting before. The looking more in-depth at Sajin is not really something I'd expect scum to do, although it's an extremely dangerous proposal if Sajin is scum.

Also, since I think it's more useful than an Empking vote at this point.

vote: DizzyIzzyB13

[hasdgfas]

vote: empking

been doing it all game, and this especially makes it a good idea

[hasdgfas]

sorry guys, been sick.
Still think we should lynch empking

[hasdgfas]

tubby, how many members do you think each scumteam has left? who do you think is in each scumteam?

the above questions should also be answered by sotty, hasdgfas, serialclergyman, head honcho and anyone else who still reads this thread.

discontinued:
empking
tubby

sprite:
sotty
you/HH, haven't figured out which yet

[hasdgfas]

So rofl, your theory is that the scum teams may well be symmetrical, in which case we should aim at discontinued because they have a NK-immune person.

But if the scum teams were symmetrical then sprite will still have a hitman left. So they'll be able to kill through protection.

Your theory doesn't hold up, I'm afraid. I see no reason to switch (although I appreciate your effort and echo your calls for more participation)

there's a huge difference between symmetrical and same number though. I don't see anywhere where it was implied or suggested that they were symmetrical. In addition, even if that were the case, the sprite hitman may have used his shots already.

[hasdgfas]

Hads - do you think rofl is scum? Do you think the teams have equal numbers?

i just said this yesterday, but I guess I'll say it again. I think they're equally numbered. I'm not sure about rofl yet, he and HH are my 2 choices for fourth slot.

[hasdgfas]

Still think we should vote Empking and see what happens during night.
In addition, pressure isn't pressure when you say it's pressure.

[hasdgfas]

I'm wondering whether it's the best bet to NL today. We have 5 alive and 2 dead scum of each faction. Best NL case is a double crosskill ending in probably a town win. Worst case is prisoner's dilemma tomorrow.

If we lynch discontinued:
Best case/worst case tomorrow are the same: 2/1

If we lynch sprite:
Best case/worst case tomorrow are the same: 2/1

If we lynch town:
Best case: cross kills, ending in town win
worst case: 1 of each scum faction remaining, no town.

So, assuming there's one of each faction left, each of whom have a kill of some sort, a no lynch guarantees a town member left tomorrow. Lynching scum leads to a 2/1 endgame no matter what. Mislynching could still end in a town win, but also has the chance of having no town members remaining.

This, however, somewhat ignores the possibility of a NK-immune discontinued left. In that case, cross kills aren't possible, but we can still end night with a Sprite member dead. I think it all really depends on how likely we think a NK-immune discontinued is. Ugh, I need to go look at claims again, as this may have some effect on these possibilities.

[hasdgfas]

I'm wondering whether it's the best bet to NL today. We have 5 alive and 2 dead scum of each faction. Best NL case is a double crosskill ending in probably a town win. Worst case is prisoner's dilemma tomorrow.

You just shot way up my scumdar, cow.

Great job at explaining the reason for that. Is it because I advocated for NL? It's not always a no-no, you know.

[hasdgfas]

V/LA for the rest of the holiday weekend, as apparently I need to post this to not get a prod.

[hasdgfas]

Let me get a response from Hasdgafas and Tubby on my last post and I will get back to you.

Currently leaning Hasdgafas. If he was indeed town I think he would not be advocating what he is advocating. He plays better than that.

I need tubby's response to my post.

Did you even see my post where I went over the possibilities to all of today's lynch possibilities?

If we think there's a NK-immune scum, the best choice is obviously lynching them, but if we don't think there's a NK-immune scum, we have the possibility of a NL leading cross-kill ending in a town win, if we assume one of each scum.

The real question here is, do we think there's a NK-immune scum? If we do, let's lynch someone. If we don't, let's NL. That's what I was attempting to say with my other post, not that NL is the best possibility right now period. In case you didn't notice, I was nowhere near sure about anything in my last post, as I didn't even vote for NL.

[hasdgfas]

Ok. So why should I think you are town? What protown action have you made in the thread?

This is not correct play. You need to look for those yourself, as I might think something is pro-town, and you'll completely disagree. This hasn't nearly been my best game(and is the latest in a line that's made me decide something, but that's for post-game), but here's the question. If everyone seems to think I'm scum, why hasn't scum tried to NK me? Isn't that the easiest way to try to get rid of me for the opposing faction?

You just state no lynch is better for town with no backup. I think its sided towards the scum factions. Explain to me why you want to no lynch if there is no unkillable but lynch if you do.

Please read my posts. I've said this multiple times. If there is no NK-immune scum, we have the possibility of crosskills, ending in a town win. If we have one, best case scenario is 3v1 tomorrow, with both attempting to kill each other and only one succeeding, but that's not really any better than lynching a scum and the remaining scum killing a townie.

Also of note, why is it more important to lynch the unkillable over the other faction? I think you scum slipped there.

It's not >.< I was thinking we had a way to kill the other scum overnight and then realized I was completely making that up. No scum slip, just confusing myself.

Now please, before we continue discussing this, I want to get this done:

@Everyone: Do you think there's a NK-immune scum remaining or not?

[hasdgfas]

Likely yes, but I find that irrelevant to my stance on wanting to lynch today.

So are you going to show the math for your stances or not cow?

You don't call THIS showing the math?

[hasdgfas]

its possible to have an nk immune scum left out there

well duh. Please answer the question. I had already figured out it was possible, or I wouldn't have asked the question....

[hasdgfas]

Actually I think Sotty is scum for saying that. Trying to use previous convictions to lynch him.

Why is that scummy?

[hasdgfas]

hey Sajin, can you answer my question now?

[hasdgfas]

You know, I really feel like Sajin is scum. For all of today, he's been attacking people, but not backing it up when called out on it.

Post 1503: Says sotty is scummy for lynching on previous convictions, not explaining it in any way. I then called him out on it and he told me to wait. Then, he responded to my question by not answering it at all in 1512.

Then, the whole thing with me earlier. He started calling me scummy after I was debating NL/lynch, but never really explained why, just that I "shot up his scumdar" or "wouldn't advocate what I'm advocating". Then he just completely ignores the fact that I already explained all my reasons for this.

This is either stupidity or scumminess, and I don't think Sajin is stupid.

vote: Sajin

[hasdgfas]

So Cow, I want you to state why you think I am the best lynch today mathmatically in your opinion since you seem to like that so much.

.......................................seriously? What are you talking about?

[hasdgfas]

alksdkfask.

Sajin, you already misplayed this by saying it was SS3. Of course, that's assuming you're SS. I need to reread after my exam.

[hasdgfas]

cow have you ever seen an SS on MS before? I have seen them on the IRC with xylbot.

Yep. I used one in US Election 08 Mafia.
Seen Tar use one before. Not sure where else.

[hasdgfas]

@Cow, I said I was a SS a long time ago, how did I misplay in your opinion?

By restating it. Often eager scum will forget about an SS claim due to the rarity of the role and quicklynch for town win. I was actually coming on to say "I had a revelation" and vote for you to see if tubby would quicklynch you, but saw that you two had posted already.

1st question-Can I get you guys to both restate your claims along with paraphrased flavor text if you have any? I would like tubby to answer first on this question.

I'm Ben Franklin's Clone from Dr. McNinja. There's a bunch of cool stuff about me, but none of it applies here. (I don't know what the acceptable quote/paraphrase level here is. I can check if you want more)

2nd question- What do you think the win percentage for town is at this point? I would like cow to answer this first.

There's a couple possibilities here. 66% comes to mind, because if you're scum and tubby or I hammer you, town wins. If you're town and I hammer you, tubby wins. If you're town and tubby hammers you, town wins. 2/3 is 66%. I have more to say on this, but I want tubby to answer the question as well.

[hasdgfas]

idk seeing as how its 2 to 1 town to scum i would say 30% town and 20% scum


but what i do not like is your improper play of the ss role if you are one.

first post of the day is you restating your role second is voicing your suspicion of cow. wich is an appeal to me.

so right now i am highly inclined to believe you scum rather than a true ss

In that case tubby, unvote, I'll vote for Sajin, then you can hammer him.

Also, more flavor stuff: I'm the clone of an extremely smart man and DrMcNinja is my friend, but neither of those helps me in this situation.

Why is checking what flavor claim is permissible stupid? I don't want to be modkilled for quoting/close to quoting.

I also wasn't sure yesterday whether or not you were an SS. I've been wavering since your claim because your play hasn't really fit an SS, but I could also definitely see that role in this game.

[hasdgfas]

It's more that I would've thought you'd want to be lynched, but not be so scummy in a way that all the town would want to lynch you.

However, you're now twisting my actions. I'm not trying to convince tubby that it's not legit, he's convinced of that already, and he's the one that's more certain about this. I'm still debating both sides of this.

[hasdgfas]

It's more that I would've thought you'd want to be lynched, but not be so scummy in a way that all the town would want to lynch you.

However, you're now twisting my actions. I'm not trying to convince tubby that it's not legit, he's convinced of that already, and he's the one that's more certain about this. I'm still debating both sides of this.

I do not mind being lynched. Town wanting me to be lynched is fine. All that matters is who hammers after all.

If I am scum then I will die regardless who hammers me.

Do I need to point out how scummy it is that you are willing to let the other person hammer but not do so yourself?

I am not convinced either way. I want to win, so I want to be as sure as possible. If you're an SS, whoever hammers you will lose. It shouldn't be scummy that I don't want to hammer a possible SS in this situation.

[hasdgfas]

Sajin, can you point me to your flavor claim and/or just reclaim it please? I need to check something.

[hasdgfas]

I'm having a bit of a holiday weather travel disaster right now. Will get to this maybe tomorrow, definitely Tuesday.

[hasdgfas]

vote: tubby

Sajin, what do you mean by "my position"?

[hasdgfas]

Also cow I still want you to answer this:

Also at Cow, if you thought I was a supersaint yesterday, then why did you pressure me? At 5 man, a 2x lynch off of me would result in auto win for one of the scum factions (3 man with 1 or 2 scum, entering night phase). So explain to me why you as town would pressure a Supersaint in 5 man.

I also wasn't sure yesterday whether or not you were an SS. I've been wavering since your claim because your play hasn't really fit an SS, but I could also definitely see that role in this game.

Can I get a short reason why each of you find the other person scum?

He hasn't really taken a position on anything this entire game.

[hasdgfas]

Thats not the point of the question.

First you were unwilling to lynch.

Then you relented and decided I was best.

If you as an unkillable godfather ML a supersaint with 5 man as long as its not you, you auto win....as it enters night with 3 people left and an unkillable would win regardless.

So did you ever factor the risk versus reward there? (everyone else did)

What an interesting question. If you think I'm scum(as you seem to), why are you asking me this question? You seem to have realized what an Un-NK has to gain from that situation and would have thought about making that vote yesterday.

However, I didn't fully think through it yesterday. I looked over your play throughout the whole day, really not liking it, because you just seemed to ignore what people were saying, and I didn't think about how the SS claim factored into that. It was in the back of my mind, but I didn't think about it fully, as end of the school semester was fast approaching.

well i think its pretty simple cow is scum,

i think he thought it would be easy for him to either
A) get me lynched outright
B) get me to hammer the SS

tubby, this is not a good reason at all for me to be scum. This is true for either of the people who isn't the SS. One of the two of us is going to win no matter what, so if we get either A or B to happen to the other it's best for us. You either wanted me lynched outright or wanted me to hammer the SS, otherwise why would you have voted for Sajin in the second post of the day?

[hasdgfas]

So who bussed their scumbuddy?

Cow was the 3rd vote on Empking and tubby was the hammer vote. Any thoughts?

I was pretty much voting for Empking the entire game until he got lynched, tubby basically had to be forced into it. His actions seem to be exactly like scum who isn't confident in his solo scum abilities.

[hasdgfas]

Neither of you looked it up and corrected me. Cow was the SECOND vote on empking.

Whichever of you is the townie is not trying very hard.

You're confirmed town. Why should I go check on what you say to make sure you're not lying? I knew I hadn't hammered, so I assumed that the confirmed town was telling the truth about which number vote I was.

[hasdgfas]

scum wins

[hasdgfas]

Eh well....

I was entirely demotivated this game and there was very little discussion going on.

I created some by claiming what I did, that was the most discussion we had for a long time.

Sorry town.

I should apologize more than you, as my awful play is one of the main reasons that we lost.

[hasdgfas]

I read too much in the elaborate scheming of you bussing your partner to try and ride your unnightkillability to victory.

Meh.

I just could not see the discussion yesterday coming from a townsperson.

well, like I said, this was a very, very, very bad game for me(and one reason I'm taking a game hiatus)