Lynch All Lurkers Mafia! GAME OVER

[elvis_knits]

Suspicious post numero uno:

L-3 with very high tendence of L-1.

Mastin, claim or die.

Also, if youd like to survive a little more, share a scumlist with us.

The suggestion that we might let Mastin survive for any amount of time is highly suspicious.

No. It is trying to a)see if he could bring a valid point as town or b)see if he could give valid information as scum. Rolf and Xyl also did this in other posts.

You're entering the point where everyhting I do is wrong.

I can see it that way too -- as trying to get info out of a scum before they die.

I had to present it that way to see how you would explain it.

I'm not trying to see evrything you do as scummy, but you have a number suspect things about you.

Also, you were instrumental in the Malyss lynch going down before AH hit 72 hours.

[elvis_knits]

Next suspicious post:

Arg, doc claim.

Why would Antihero targetted me night one?

Oh no, a doc claim!

I was wondering why Antihero "protected" me when there were better options at the time.

In fact, the thing that he claimed doctor protecting me, do you think its more likely that scum think Im town and they hate me to the bones or that Im scum with Antihero/Masttin?

It could go either way. It's complete WIFOM.

[elvis_knits]

Next suspicious post:

Arg, doc claim.

Why would Antihero targetted me night one?

Oh no, a doc claim!

I was wondering why Antihero "protected" me when there were better options at the time.

In fact, the thing that he claimed doctor protecting me, do you think its more likely that scum think Im town and they hate me to the bones or that Im scum with Antihero/Masttin?

It could go either way. It's complete WIFOM.

Yes, therefore any argument that says that Im scum because of his doc claim is bogus.

And nobody is saying you're scum based on his doc claim, so it's a non issue.

[elvis_knits]

tajo, is this what you're referring to?

mastin's doc fakeclaim makes tajo even more likely to be scum.

I think rofl was referring to the fact that mastin claimed doc, not that he claimed you as his target.

But you could be right.

We will have ot ask him.

[elvis_knits]

Suggestion: Mastin needs to die today. Yes. But let's lynch him second. Then we see more interaction from him, and learn more when he flips one way or the other.

This was awesome.

vote image

Does this make more sense coming from a scum pov?

I could bet that scumpartners would be more pendant of Mastin flip.

Do you think image is town?

[elvis_knits]

but it should still be noted that the more vanilla and goon flips we have, the less likely a tracker in this setup becomes

[elvis_knits]

I think image is scum, yes.

I think his latest comment about delaying the mastin lynch is scummy. You can put WIFOM in there and say it's too scummy to be scum. But you could have also said that Mastin lurking for 72 hours was a very stupid thing to do, and that scum wouldn't try it. Well, they did try it. Scum did try to lurk and get an extra kill, and then he tried to talk us out of lynching him.

Scum have many reasons to try to delay mastin's lynch. One of them being that if we lynch mastin second, maybe another scum can lurk over the 72 hour mark, and we can only lynch one of them. Then then earn lurker points anyway.

But we can't know for sure that Mastin had ulterior motives, you are right. However, that does not negate the reasons I thought he was scum before. That also does not negate the fact he helped lynched malyss instead of AH.

[elvis_knits]

but it should still be noted that the more vanilla and goon flips we have, the less likely a tracker in this setup becomes

It should also be noted that we have confirmed masons and a confirmed roleblocker in the setup.

There is that problem of the masons... I guess it would be too paranoid to assume that steph, ssk, and tajo are the scum team. Also, I pretty much think steph is town.

As for a roleblocker, we do not have a confirmed one in the setup. We only have your word for it.

[elvis_knits]

Contemplate this post by image:

I respectfully disagree with DGB that THIS POST makes BMQ seem very town. He does not provide a solid defense of zwet or pick apart the arguments against him; he just rehashes a bunch of the weaker arguments and meta-based arguments, and says he is unconvinced by it. His long lurk over the weekend and week defense of zwet in other posts makes him seem suspicious to me.

It strikes me that, given the choice between lynching Steph or MafiaSSK to see if we have a scum mason, it is better to lynch Steph. If she flips town, we can take her at her word that MafiaSSK is confirmed and was lying for some odd reason. If we lynch MafiaSSK first, though, and he flips town, that doesn't tell us if Stef is a scum-mason or not. Further, if MafiaSSK is a weird day cult recruiter as Troll fears, we can make him the first lynch tomorrow if Steph flips cult. But this could be just a case of poor wording and confusion as Xyl suggests.

Unfortunately, there has been a lot of noise going on today that I have a hard time making sense of, with rofl being aggro and people getting angry at him. Still not seeing tajo as town, but agreeing that there isn't as strong a case against him as rofl seems to think there is.

Unvote.

I am quite disturbed by the utter lack of meaningful posting coming from Malyss.

Vote: Malyss

The suggestion to lynch steph instead of SSK is uber scummy to me. "Yeah, let's lynch the townier mason, and if he's town (like we think), we can believe him that the scummy mason is also town."

Followed by the hop onto malyss wagon.

[elvis_knits]

But I don't know how he went from "no claim or die, just die!" to "let's see if I can help you prove you're town."

You don't see why testing his claim could be a good idea? It's not like I made it an easy test.

I see why it could be a good idea from a town POV. But I also see that it could be you trying to help your buddy live a little longer.

[elvis_knits]

I'm trying to decide what I think of these posts:

D1:

@Troll: It strikes me as a really bad idea for Antihero to try to force a mislynch in this way. If he lets his timer run out this way, we have found a scum easily. The only way scum-AH could potentially make use of the "lurker points" is if he, and/or one (or more) of his scumbuddies managed to hammer the Malyss wagon in the time in between when his lurk timer runs out and when the town manages to switch directions and lynch him. And this would give us some obvious lynches tomorrow.

That being said, town must be very careful not to leave anyone at L-1 when a lurker hits his or her 72nd hour, unless the wagon is on the lurker themselves, as a scum in this situation could hammer immediately and guarantee a bonus NK.

We'll also need to be careful of people lurking the 72 hours before a deadline, but the first deadline doesn't come up for a couple of weeks so we don't need to worry about this yet.

We don't need to worry much about Antihero-scum being close to getting points, though; there is no threat until he actually gets the points. And then we just lynch him, and he can't ever use them or give them to his scumbuddies. Lurking near the end of the day seems like a great way to draw the lynch to him, rather than force a mislynch of a wagoned townie. I won't worry about AH unless he somehow manages to lurk 72 hours AND live through today.

D2:

@All the people who jumped on Malyss claiming they didn't want to give Antihero time to lurk: That is not a good justification. The far better play would have been to wait for Antihero's 72 hours to pass to see if he was, in fact, lurking, and then lynch him if so. Scum lurking 72 hours is only a threat to town if the town does not notice it before night.

Specifically looking at Empking 1092, Elvis 1102, tajo for weak justification & hopping on after Elvis said she would hammer (1102 + a bit), and rofl for 1114. Wanting to leave the lurker alive is

not

a good justification for dropping a pre-claim hammer.

[/url]One last thought for tonight from Troll. If Malyss be town, to a lesser degree if DrippingGoofball be town and especially if both of them be town then Antihero's lack of posting (it has been about 51 hours) makes him much more likely to be scum in Troll's opinion. Him will be forcing you (Troll no will be here to help you make this decision and Troll no be sure what the correct one will be) to decide whether it be better to lynch before his 72 hour timer comes up or wait for it to expire and policy lynch him. If him be town then him has every reason to be posting more regularly so that these sorts of decisions no have to be made (Troll thinks Troll said something about that earlier). If him be scum then him could easily be using that aspect of the rules to try to force a mislynch. If the scum can talk during the day then it be even worse but that seems like something we be unlikely to learn till the game be over.

This. Townie Antihero should have posted, even without content, to not force us into a rushed lynch on Malyss. Antihero-scum, though, could have been playing the threat of a lurk to force the town to make bad decisions quickly.

Vote: Antihero

.

[elvis_knits]

image, can you explain why you thought AH would NOT try to force a mislynch of malyss by lurking... then decided that it was scummy for AH to be lurking during the malyss lynch, and voted AH... then decided to go off in other directions and not pursue AH?

[elvis_knits]

The point about rofl hammering malyss is valid. Although I don't think rofl is scum. He can't be right all the time, nobody can. His contribution throughout the game has been majorly pro-town. At least it has seemed so to me. Many of his judgements have been like my own, so he seems to make sense to me.

However, for the sake of being thorough...

rofl: what was your original reasoning why AH was town?

[elvis_knits]

@Elvis: I thought it was not scummy because I didn't believe town could possibly be as silly as to lynch one person to prevent another from going over 72 hours. When this happened, I realised I had made a poor assumption and reevaluated accordingly; this made AH look like scum.

So why did you drop that line of reasoning on AH after you voted him?

[elvis_knits]

Next person to refer to WIH2... DIES

[elvis_knits]

I went through the player lists mostly for my own benefit but I decided to post it on the chance that anyone could help with my reads or change my mind if I have made any big mistakes.

2.

BrianMcQueso/Nuwen

- lean scum (bad math + BMQ defended Zwet)
4. Xylthixlm - turning scummy, although my gut is still not saying scum (full of cop outs, pushed malyss lynch like nobody's business)
5.

image

- scum (reasons too numerous to list here)
6.

roflcopter

- think town (although behavior toward AH, malyss lynch are points against him)
8. MafiaSSK - Utility lynch candidate
9. Empking - Utility lynch candidate
12.

elvis_knits

-
13.

q21/Kinetic

- lean town (corrected ony of my misunderstanding of the lurk clock in a pro-town manner)
14.

Stephoscope

- town (was voting DGB instead of lynching malyss)
15. populartajo - "tracker" in a game with no dead power roles
17.

ortolan

- town (was voting AH instead of lynching malyss)

This is an official plea for Xyl and tajo to stop doing scummy things if they are town.

I would make a plea to SSK and Empking to do the same thing, but not sure that would help.

[elvis_knits]

You are calling ortolan town for voting AH instead of lynching malyss, but think image is scum despite doing the same thing. You should reconsider at least one of those positions.

image voted AH on day 2.

Ortolan voted AH on Day 1 during the malyss wagon/lynch. image was on the malyss lynch.

[elvis_knits]

BrianMcQueso/Nuwen - lean scum (bad math + BMQ defended Zwet)

The math still isn't bad. :p

My case on you is getting shelved for now, but any other mention of policy lynching people prior to 72 hours will have my head turned back to you immediately. Even if you are town, suggesting tactics that advance scum motives is bad, bad play.

CAN YOU GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD THAT I SUGGESTED LYNCHING AT 48 OF LURKING WHEN I THOUGHT THAT SCUM COULD SHARE LURKER POINTS EVEN AFTER BEING LYNCHED.

THE IMPLICATIONS OF MY MISUNDERSTANDING MEANT WE HAD TO LYNCH LURKERS BEFORE THEY CROSSED THE THRESHOLD.

I HAVE NEVER ADVOCATED LYNCHING PEOPLE AT 48 HOURS OF LURKING AFTER THAT ONE TIME, I HAVE JUST DEFENDED MY POINT BECAUSE IT MADE SENSE AT THE TIME.

EVEN NOW, YOU CANNOT GIVE THIS UP. YOU'RE MAKING IT SOUND LIKE I REPEATEDLY TRIED TO GET PEOPLE LYNCHED FOR LURKING 48 HOURS, AND THAT THERE IS SOME POSSIBILITY THAT I MIGHT DO IT AGAIN.

THIS IS FAIL. YOU ARE SCUM.

I AM VERY NEAR TO SWITCHING MY VOTE TO YOU.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote nuwen

She is trying to erode everyone's confidence in me, and make me look like a bad player by saying "that's just bad, bad play." Despite the fact that I am the most confirmed player in the whole game and pushed for both scum to be lynched. She is trying to make me seem like a bad player because I am saying she's scum.

I took a while to think about it because I didn't want to just vote her out of anger. But he latest comments to me are totally scummy.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote nuwen

She is trying to erode everyone's confidence in me, and make me look like a bad player by saying "that's just bad, bad play." Despite the fact that I am the most confirmed player in the whole game and pushed for both scum to be lynched. She is trying to make me seem like a bad player because I am saying she's scum.

I took a while to think about it because I didn't want to just vote her out of anger. But he latest comments to me are totally scummy.

I just added you to my town list - the only thing I'm trying to break down is the lead-follow love triangle between you, Rofl, and Steph. It's not healthy for the town to have three unconfirmed players trying to get everyone else to play follow the leader (Rofl's leverage over Xyl's vote is especially scary). Calling yourself "the most confirmed player in the game" does not grant you room to propose plans detrimental to the town and then call anyone who opposes them scummy. Calling yourself the "most confirmed player" isn't a good idea at all, actually.

vote: MafiaSSK

- Back to taking care of old problems.

First of all, I do not go around proposing plans that are detrimental to the town. I proposed one plan which is debatable, when I was under a different understanding of the game. Your stated willingness to lynch me for it despite putting me in your town column, shows what scum you are.

If you added me to your town list, what is your problem with me saying I am the most confirmed player in the game?

Also, you said it was impossible for rofl and AH to both be scum, so from your POV, rofl is confirmed town too.

I haven't seen you say why steph is scummy, so I don't know what your problem is with him.

The love triangle is awesome. I would be okay with you distrusting it if you had ANY legitimate reasons why any of us were scummy. The mere reason that we trust each other and believe each other to be town is not a good reason to be susupicious of us. In fact, it is only evidence of you trying to break up town consensus and throw confusion around.

[elvis_knits]

uh, i really don't see much of anything going on between the two of them, but re-reading q21 has made me question my town feelings a little bit. mostly the attack on elvis in his first post stinks.

I actually think his attack on me was not too bad. I could see myself making the same point on someone else.

Also, we were coming off of playing a newbie game where I had just killed him when he was doc, and then won as scum. So I felt there were probably some lingering feelings of dislike, a hankering for revenge. It's completely my conjecture, and I could be hella off base, but I would expect him to be more suspicious of me coming off a game where I beat him as scum.

[elvis_knits]

The love triangle is awesome. I would be okay with you distrusting it if you had ANY legitimate reasons why any of us were scummy. The mere reason that we trust each other and believe each other to be town is not a good reason to be susupicious of us. In fact, it is only evidence of you trying to break up town consensus and throw confusion around.

i <3 you

ladies and gentlemen, this is how scum are caught. i hope you were paying attention to the lesson from professor knits.

i <3 you too.

Where is steph we need to go have a threesome. I call middle.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, non-interraction is not a scum tell. It is too WIFOM. Yeah, scum do it, but not all town comment on everyone either. Also, you're wrong that they didn't interract.

@Everyone saying that the zwet wagon is "dumb": What would be a town motivation for zwet to ask about RL isssues conflicting with activity? What would be a town motivation for zwet to make this post?

I'm going to lurk for 72 hours and see what happens... Consider it a "test", so to speak.

What would be a town motivation for just about anything zwet does? The answer is that there is very often no such thing. Its unfortunate that we will probably have to policy lynch him sometime in the (probably near) future, but I have no ability to read zwet and so I'd like to get some scumhunting done elsewhere earlier in the game.

[elvis_knits]

q21 bussing AH, bussing zwet???!!!!

It's the double buss!

If you can't tell, I am being sarcastic.

[elvis_knits]

lol

Also, BTW, Nuwen voting SSK now makes me thinkg SSK is town. All the scummy people default to trying to lynch SSK when their ass is on the fire.

[elvis_knits]

I thought it was unusual. I asked a question to see if either the people I consider good and probably town also considered it unusual. The answer is "no". Fine.

I know I'm being obnoxious, but I am honestly open to discussion with you if you think I'm wrong.

DO you think the q21/AH/zwet interraction that I quoted above means anything? Does it make you reevauate? Seriously... give your opinion.

[elvis_knits]

Also, BTW, Nuwen voting SSK now makes me thinkg SSK is town. All the scummy people default to trying to lynch SSK when their ass is on the fire.

I have noted this too. However, I have more on SSK, which I'll likely reveal later although I'm giving him the opportunity to respond first.

I'm interested in this...

[elvis_knits]

I thought it was unusual. I asked a question to see if either the people I consider good and probably town also considered it unusual. The answer is "no". Fine.

I know I'm being obnoxious, but I am honestly open to discussion with you if you think I'm wrong.

DO you think the q21/AH/zwet interraction that I quoted above means anything? Does it make you reevauate? Seriously... give your opinion.

You're probably right, having three scum interact like that would be weird.

What bothered you about q21 in the first place though? Because that might have a bearing.

I'm not trying to ram through my own opinions. Okay, I am. But I don't want anyone to stop saying what they think if they really believe it.

[elvis_knits]

What bothered you about q21 in the first place though? Because that might have a bearing.

In a word: Kinetic.

what has he done?

[elvis_knits]

Stephoscope: If MafiaSSK was scum he wouldn't have to out the masons, he could just tell his scumbuddies in their QT.

I know that, but why on earth has he been acting this way?

Yeah, I don't think there's a benefit to scum in outing the masons.

Having masons come out in lategame can be really bad for scum because they confirm each other. However, if they know they are there, they can kill the masons at night to get rid of them. Also, didn't SSK say you're not confirmed?

The only reason I could see for SSK to act this way as scum is if his intention was to argue that the masons are not confirmed (and this possible lynch targets). This doesn't entirely make sense because 1)he has made himself seem like the scummiest mason of the lot of you; and 2)he could have just killed you and whoever else if he's scum.

So... I really have no idea what is going on with SSK and this whole business. I am tempted to just think he is not too smart, but I know that is a dangerous assumption to make with anyone.

I am open to ideas.

[elvis_knits]

Oh, also, let's not forget that image thought we should lynch steph to confirm SSK.

If the masons are some mix of allignments, lynching the most townish mason really only makes sense from a scum POV since it would serve to confirm the scummier mason(s).

[elvis_knits]

Oh, also, let's not forget that image thought we should lynch steph to confirm SSK.

If the masons are some mix of allignments, lynching the most townish mason really only makes sense from a scum POV since it would serve to confirm the scummier mason(s).

That was when Steph was saying he had confirmation on SSK and SSK was saying Steph was unconfirmed. If this were the situation, the only way exactly one of them could have been scum would be if Steph were scum, so it made the most sense to lynch Steph if a mason had to be lynched. Please stop bringing this up without sufficient context; this is at least the second time you have done so.

The first time I brought it up, I quoted your whole post, so the context was there. I don't see how it makes a difference. You're still advocating killing a townish player to confirm an unhelpful/obnoxious player. Even if we confirm SSK, he's mostly useless. And then Steph is dead, who actually makes some sense. That plan sucks.

---

Also, about SSK, I feel like he's playing agianst his win condition, no matter his allignment.

[elvis_knits]

2. BrianMcQueso Nuwen Tue May 12, 2009 5:44 pm
4. Xylthixlm Tue May 12, 2009 11:38 pm
5. image Tue May 12, 2009 11:03 pm
6. roflcopter Tue May 12, 2009 7:11 pm
8. MafiaSSK Wed May 13, 2009 8:17 am
9. Empking Tue May 12, 2009 11:45 am
12. elvis_knits now
13. q21Kinetic Wed May 13, 2009 7:12 am
14. Stephoscope Tue May 12, 2009 7:13 pm
15. populartajo Tue May 12, 2009 6:24 pm
17. ortolan Tue May 12, 2009 8:15 am

[elvis_knits]

I heard nuns don't wear underwear...

[elvis_knits]

I also want a clear answer from Steph about if the masons are confirmed to each other or not.

I think there has been some back and forth about this, or possibly it has been SSK fucking with us.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl has been a little all over the place this game, but he is so much less scummy than Nuwen.

Come on guys, I want to take a bath in her blood.

Then play football with her spleen.

[elvis_knits]

In case you need more reasons to BBQ Nuwen:

Neutral with town vibes:
Stephoscope
Mastin (just a feeling from the meticulous rereading, not substantiated)

Mastin was severely unhelpful after replacing. He strung us along forever, and then when he did a recap, it was this horrible list of how many posts people made and the average length, and if the posts were "stylistically consistent." Whatever the fuck that means. His recap was actually full of a whole lot of nothing.

No player in their right mind could actually think that Mastin was doing a meticulous reread. We saw no evidence of such. And I find it hard to believe that anyone would get "town vibes" from him.

Oh, and then he came up scum.

[elvis_knits]

SpyreX was obv town. so he might have been killed simply for that reason. However, let's see who he suspected. Oh right, it was BRIAN MCQUESO.

Rofl - Town
DGB - Probably Town (I don't like the repeated "I'm soo good at this game" business and I really dont like how hard she's trying to stuff rofl into a bussing-power scum move considering everything else, but)
GET THAT - FROM AN OUTSIDER BOTH OF YOU READ AS TOWN THAT ARE SLAPPING THE HELL OUT OF EACH OTHER AND LETTING SCUM SLIDE.
Elvis - Town
Steph - Town (not just the claim, but town)
Xyl - Probably Town

Now, I'm not going to deal with neutrals right now. Instead, I'm going to at the fact some of this has been allowed to slide - in no small part due to the great slapfights and /feelings.

Xtoxm - Scum. Seriously. This is where my vote is going. You'll get my case later.

Brian McQueso - Scum. He's next. Seriously "Pardon my ignorance, but I'm totally confused by this zwet-wagon." Really? REALLY?

Tajo - Definitely leaning scum. I really, really don't like not just coming out and saying "I was roleblocked". That and the bipolar shift in posting between under scrutiny and not. But, thats for later.

(my bolding, above and below)

@Brian:

Yea, REALLY. My bad for not being here to call you out on the hyper-apologetic I-better-not-step on anyones toes PS vote Rofl post that has been a focus of your sparse, sparse posting.

And confidence isn't a scumtell. Far from it. I'd rather have confident and strong players who are absolutely wrong versus tenative ohh maybe gee I dont know I can go every direction players every time.

I'm pissed because xtoxm was scum. His PM may have said town but that business was scum through and through.

I need to parse q21's last post because it gives me the creepy feeling all through my bones. I cant decide what it means in the grand scheme of things however.

[elvis_knits]

i'll bring the special bbq sauce!

ma baby's got sauce

(points for song identificiation)

[elvis_knits]

elvis: how do you feel about tajo?

I go back and forth on him. His early behavior of being super-involved but not scum-hunting/voting, I consider a legitimate scum tell. Other times I think maybe I just disagree with many of his judgements.

Lynching Nuwen will help because tajo is basically the only person she confirms as town in her uber-helpful lists. If Nuwen is scum, which I think she is, she makes tajo look worse.

If we ever have a power role flip in this game, or a mafia RB, tajo's tracker claim will make more sense.

[elvis_knits]

Family Guy Mafia, off the top of my head.

[elvis_knits]

Lynching Nuwen will help because tajo is basically the only person she confirms as town in her uber-helpful lists. If Nuwen is scum, which I think she is, she makes tajo look worse.

Funny how I think one of the reasons she is town is because she is defending me, something scum wouldnt do for obvious reasons.

What do you think of all the other points I have brought up about her?

[elvis_knits]

I also want a clear answer from Steph about if the masons are confirmed to each other or not.

I think there has been some back and forth about this, or possibly it has been SSK fucking with us.

What do you mean? Do I know whether the other two are town? No, I don't.

Post 696 explains the earlier confusion I had.

Anyway, I have nothing to share regarding my mason partners right now, but for me personally, I'm thinking Mastin wouldn't have gone for the 72-hour bonus if we all haven't been on to something.

Unvote
Vote: Nuwen

Has your other mason responded to your PM? Does mystery mason think SSK is town? Do you think mystery mason is town? What are your feelings suspicions regarding the masonry?

[elvis_knits]

Lynching Nuwen will help because tajo is basically the only person she confirms as town in her uber-helpful lists. If Nuwen is scum, which I think she is, she makes tajo look worse.

Funny how I think one of the reasons she is town is because she is defending me, something scum wouldnt do for obvious reasons.

What do you think of all the other points I have brought up about her?

They are valid (sometimes they feel like disagreeing in playstyle) but I think my point outweights them.

I really think that scum wouldn't put me in prob town status and start and wouldnt attack also someone that was prob town as the game progressed.

It just doesnt fit coming from a scum pov.

Tajo, if what you say is true, and you are town, and are being RBed every night, you are no threat to scum. They do not need to lynch you. They can keep you alive forever. They can earn town credit by arguing against your lynch. If you get lynched they look more townie for having believed you.

[elvis_knits]

I think putting Nuwen at L-1 is perfectly prudent. She didn't post yesterday despite the chorus of cries for her death. A little more pressure can only be good.

---

How many scum are people expecting in this game?

Mastin alluded to us having 6. I think that was floated as the maximum number possible. Nuwen has said 4-6 scum. I think that's just based on a 1/3 to 1/4 % scum ratio. Ortolan just alluded to 5 or 6 scum ("3/4 of them apart from Mastin").

How does having a double day change the ratio of scum?

Should we take any hints from what Mastin said or draw any conclusions based on numbers that others are coming up with?

I was thinking more along the lines of 4 scum, possibly 5. Which means 2 left, possibly 3. If there were 6 total, and 4 scum left... that makes me a bit concerned.

[elvis_knits]

Tajo, if what you say is true, and you are town, and are being RBed every night, you are no threat to scum. They do not need to lynch you. They can keep you alive forever. They can earn town credit by arguing against your lynch. If you get lynched they look more townie for having believed you.

Good point. But its not like scum are going to roleblock me forever. What if they need to lynch me?

Again, assuming you're not scum...

Until we lynch a mafia RB, or another power role surfaces, they can go on roleblocking you. They basically have nothing better to do with their roleblocker until that time.

[elvis_knits]

The only time I have played in a game with similar mechanics was Dynamite Stick Mafia... which was not exactly like a double day. One player had to dynamite another player, killing them both. So there were two deaths each day... but maximum of one scum death each day, and high probability for two town deaths.

There were 3 scum in 25 players for that game. Ironically, I was scum with Yos in that game.

No power roles.

[elvis_knits]

Am I the only person who really wants to know who the third mason is?

Is this so bad for town?

In general I agree it's good to keep roles hidden as long as possible. Like if we get closer to endgame and the mystery mason is alive, revealing him at a critical time could help to narrow the field of possible scum considerably. Except that they are not confirmed anyway... so that doesn't matter.

I would prefer that EVERYTHING regarding the masonry is out on the table because mafiaSSK has shown himself to be a problem, and there was some confusion about being confirmable before. I would like to hear from the third mason. I would just like to know the full story. To nail it down now.

Does anyone see any potential benefit to keeping it a secret?

[elvis_knits]

Nuwen failing to defend against any of my points and failing to claim, and pointlessly arguing against outing the last mason = good lynch.

[elvis_knits]

I'm a little surprised nuwen doesn't consider the possibility that the masons are really mafia even while she speculates about them being cult. Presumably because she's mafia and knows they aren't.

(if they are cult I'd say knowing another member would help town not just mafia. Nuwen's attempt to cast suspicion on that basis fails.)

As with any other game where no dead players have come up cult... there is probably not a cult.

Anyone floating this idea is probably scum. Cult is a red herring and a distraction until proven otherwise.

For posterity, should I be dead tomorrow, I think Xyl also mentioned cult, althought it might have been in response to other players bringing it up.

[elvis_knits]

That doesn't sound convincing and how do you know we are in LYOL????

[elvis_knits]

thats enough. town or scum, you knew if you lurked past 72 hours you would be lynched no matter what. we can't afford to let you live now.

unvote, vote: mastin

Problem is, you're now in lylo.

[elvis_knits]

Nuwen and Mastin have a lot in common, both seem to know when town is gonna be in lylo.

[elvis_knits]

We don't know whether was WIFOM or not and we know for a fact it isn't true because he was scum. Because he was scum if we weren't in LYOL before lynching him then we're not in LYOL after.

I know, it's just funny how they both say the same thing even after being lynched, that they are town and the town is now in lylo. We KNOW in mastin's case it was complete BS.

[elvis_knits]

Scum can definitely keep pretending their innocent during twilight. Mastin did it.

It was more in vogue when I first started playing. It's coming back into fashion I think. We used to never believe anything if the mod didn't tell us it was true.

[elvis_knits]

The fact that Elvis continues to try and draw posthumous links to further justify the lynch is frightening. Unfortunately, I do feel that she's town and just carried away with what she can and cannot say as an omgconfirmed player.

I would have self-hammered as scum; the discussion today has been light and the day ended very quickly.

If you're town, I guess it doesn't matter now, but you didn't even try to answer my points today. You just went into mason talk...

[elvis_knits]

p.s., hearing the words "if you're town" from my wagon's strongest supporter

after

the hammer doesn't make me any more confident in Elvis' omgconfirmed status. I hate casting doubt on confirmation, but her strong town actions (calling out Mastin's lurking, namely)

do

have some psychological benefit - further confirming one member of the scum team could be worth the numerical disadvantage of losing a player that would be lynched anyway on the next timer check.

The fact that you still can't believe I'm town despite all evidence to the contrary is one of the reasons I still think you're scum.

[elvis_knits]

I'm setting up the endzones for spleen football...

[elvis_knits]

I think image and tajo are scummiest, although lynching SSK is not really a bad idea.

I'd like to see massclaim at this point.

Worst case scenario is 4 scum left. 9 players, 5 town... if we make 2 mislynches today, scum win.

If there's 3 scum left, 9 players, 6 town, if we make 2 mislynches, scum make a nightkill for the win.

There's probably atleast 2 scum left, 9 players, 7 town, even with 2 mislynched today, and a NK, we still would get to see tomorrow.

Personally, I would think we have 2-3 scum left, so hopefully we are not in the worst case scenario. But it's very possible that today is lylo.

[elvis_knits]

This is who is left:

4. Xylthixlm
5. image
8. MafiaSSK - mason
9. Empking
12. elvis_knits
13. q21Kinetic - mason
14. Stephoscope - mason
15. populartajo - tracker
17. ortolan

The order I would choose is:
image
Empking
Xyl
Ortolan
elvis

Although I would go for popcorn, with image going first.

Or any other method, really. I don't care.

[elvis_knits]

I don't care but image should go first because he is the scummiest of the unclaimed.

[elvis_knits]

Sorry, am quite busy this weekend, probably won't be able to do a reread or post a real case until later Tuesday or so, although I'll try to post non-content stuff to keep my lurk timer down. Quite surprised by rofl flipping town.

Worst case scenario is 4 scum left. 9 players, 5 town... if we make 2 mislynches today, scum win.

Careful here; if there are 4 scum and we make 1 mislynch today, we lose. We may be in LYLO already.

If you don't claim next time you post, I will vote you.

[elvis_knits]

image stalling by saying he can't make a real post until tuesday is worrying to me for that reason. If we're waiting for him to make a claim first, we can't do anything until he cooperates. We need everyone to claim and weigh our options quickly.

Also, tajo needs to post.

[elvis_knits]

We have enough active players that we can probably get a lynch together if we need it, but I would rather have a mass claim.

[elvis_knits]

Wait, how have both Xyl and Elvis lived close to LYLO?

Are you scum?

[elvis_knits]

Kinetic, poptajo is male

[elvis_knits]

What the fuck is the problem with explaining what is in the quicktopic? I do not understand.

[elvis_knits]

So tajo is the only one who hasn't posted since day started. It's been about 36 hours.

My current thinking is to lynch tajo first.

I am still worried about image, but the masons are really pissing me off. I do not understand what kinetic is trying to do by keeping mason communication a secret. I don't know if screenshots are even allowed in this game, but I feel like kinetic is worried he'll be forced to post one and it'll be all "OMG GUYS WE'RE SCUM PULLING OFF A FAKE MASON CLAIM LULLLLLLLLZZZZZZ!!!!1111!!!"

Why else are the mason's so resistant to talking about their QT? Why is kinetic and now mafiassk talking about deleting the topic? Threatening to delete the topic is very suspicious to me. Getting rid of damaging information?

[elvis_knits]

If we're required to then tell everything that happens the QT becomes useless again

I don't understand how the QT becomes useless.

Reporting back to us what is happening in the thread should not change the answers that anyone gives, etc.

Regarding the modkill issues, I have pmed Yos.

[elvis_knits]

The way I feel about it is as if you were asking me to quote my role PM. Even if there was not a direct rule against it I still would not do it.

I don't understand how linking to the QT is the same as quoting your role pm.

I don't think that the QT can confirm your allignment one way or the other (unless you're all scum faking this mason claim, and there is incriminating evidence in the QT).

I do agree that we should ask Yos though.

[elvis_knits]

tajo, what do you think of the masons?

Also, why are you the only power role in this game besides a group of severely disfunctional masons?

[elvis_knits]

About the tracker thing. Massclaim is the way to go. So far we have 3 confirmed masons, 1 tracker and 1 roleblocker. I dont think Yos would be that mean to have a role distribution that would only include two roles that would only interact each other. But, in the worst scenario, would the fact that I could be the only targetting power role for town means that Im scum?

If you're the only power role after the massclaim, we lynch you.

[elvis_knits]

For skimmers: We're massclaiming.

For image: You're up! Claim!

[elvis_knits]

So I asked Yos hypothetically what he would allow for masons if they existed, and he told me he could not answer as it would depend on the role PM.

Maybe the masons can ask him themselves and report back since he wouldn't be revealing any PM info to them that they don't already have.

Am I being paranoid? Because now I am having doubts about the entire mason group.

[elvis_knits]

Kinetic, who the hell ever wanted the LINK to your QT? I agree that seems like cheating.

But I fail to see why you can't paraphrase anything from the QT. I don't understand what the big deal is. What has been the subject of dicussion? I can't see how that is against the rules or bending the rules. I feel like you're hiding something.

[elvis_knits]

4. Xylthixlm
5. image - vanilla
8. MafiaSSK - mason
9. Empking
12. elvis_knits
13. q21Kinetic - mason
14. Stephoscope - mason
15. populartajo - tracker
17. ortolan - vanilla

[elvis_knits]

I am vanilla.

Here's the official list of claims:

4. Xylthixlm - vanilla
5. image - vanilla
8. MafiaSSK - mason
9. Empking - doc
12. elvis_knits - vanilla
13. q21Kinetic - mason
14. Stephoscope - mason
15. populartajo - tracker
17. ortolan - vanilla

[elvis_knits]

Doctor - Rofl, Rofl, Elvis

Xyl, Claim.

Convenient how you protected rofl every night until the one he actually got killed.

[elvis_knits]

I say tajo and empking are scum, with image as possible third buddy if there is a third.

I am WIFOMing with myself would tajo's scum buddy be stupid enough to claim a power role. In most cases, answer is likely no. With Empking, answer likely yes.

Agree? Disagree?

[elvis_knits]

I say tajo and empking are scum, with image as possible third buddy if there is a third.

I am WIFOMing with myself would tajo's scum buddy be stupid enough to claim a power role. In most cases, answer is likely no. With Empking, answer likely yes.

Agree? Disagree?

i are not dumb.

One of my favorite sayings is:

I may be dumb, but I am not stupid.

[elvis_knits]

I dunno. There have been a *lot* of vanilla flips and claims. Empking's claimed protections are admittedly convenient, but also make sense. Why is his roleclaim so suspicious?

I'd be more comfortable lynching a claimed vanilla.

Everyone who has flipped in the game is vanilla town or mafia goon. That is the only thing we can be sure of. There is a complete lack of power roles on either town or mafia side.

That makes me think that either the game is mountainous, or that virtually everyone left in the game should be a power role, and we have been exceedingly lucky to have them all survive this far. I know I am not a power role.

18 players

Confirmed through death:
2 mafia goons
7 vanilla townie

Claimed (2-4 of these are faking):
4 vanilla townie
3 masons
1 doc
1 tracker

[elvis_knits]

I dunno. There have been a *lot* of vanilla flips and claims. Empking's claimed protections are admittedly convenient, but also make sense. Why is his roleclaim so suspicious?

I'd be more comfortable lynching a claimed vanilla.

Everyone who has flipped in the game is vanilla town or mafia goon. That is the only thing we can be sure of. There is a complete lack of power roles on either town or mafia side.

That makes me think that either the game is mountainous, or that virtually everyone left in the game should be a power role, and we have been exceedingly lucky to have them all survive this far. I know I am not a power role.

18 players

Confirmed through death:
2 mafia goons
7 vanilla townie

Claimed (2-4 of these are faking):
4 vanilla townie
3 masons
1 doc
1 tracker

So despite the fact that five power roles have claimed and you think one of them has to be telling the truth. You still think the game is mountainious? Rather than just having a below normal number of power roles?

The masons can't confirm each other, so they are not useful to us in any way. They might as well be vanilla.

Tell me what the point is of having one weak information role (tracker) and one protective role, in an 18 player game? He's not even a cop, or some strong kind of power role. He's a tracker. It makes no sense to me.

[elvis_knits]

Tell me what the point is of having one weak information role (tracker) and one protective role, in an 18 player game? He's not even a cop, or some strong kind of power role. He's a tracker. It makes no sense to me.

Are there ever multiple trackers in a game?

We have to remember that Tajo was in a lot of trouble earlier. And tracker might have been a safe fakeclaim, given that we would expect a bunch of power roles in a game like this to track, if a real tracker existing wouldn't have exposed that someone was lying.

If Tajo is scum, he was exceedingly lucky when his alleged scumteam started being picked off and they all flipped town...

I wouldn't expect multiple trackers in the game, no, although I have seen that. But I would expect maybe a stronger information role like a cop, or other kinds of info roles.

I find it very odd for there to be SO many vanilla and then two random power roles.

[elvis_knits]

Well it would make sense for him to claim a weaker info role. There's less chance of him getting counterclaimed. Like when I'm scum I have claimed backup cop. That's like the scummiest claim in the world. Tracker that gets roleblocked every night is almost as scummy.

[elvis_knits]

Tajo, why are you voting first and giving reasons later?

[elvis_knits]

Elvis, you think Xyl is town?

I don't know.

Tell me why you think he's scum. Generally. I don't care about quotes or a long windbag post. Just the main points.

Also, interested to what you said about mindscrew3 and how you think he's the same.

[elvis_knits]

vote tajo

[elvis_knits]

I am also still very suspicious of kinetic being so against paraphrasing mason conversations. :/

[elvis_knits]

SSK, I asked you before if you're scum. What's the answer?

[elvis_knits]

I could go for an empking lynch.

[elvis_knits]

4. Xylthixlm Tue May 19, 2009 11:29 pm
5. image Tue May 19, 2009 12:33 am
8. MafiaSSK Tue May 19, 2009 6:23 pm
9. Empking Wed May 20, 2009 6:25 am
12. elvis_knits now
13. q21Kinetic Tue May 19, 2009 1:25 am
14. Stephoscope Wed May 20, 2009 10:15 am
15. populartajo Wed May 20, 2009 10:57 am
17. ortolan Wed May 20, 2009 6:14 am

Just noticing kinetic and image last post within 45 minutes of each other. So we have to be careful about not letting them pull anything funny where we can't lynch both of them if they both go over 72 hours.

[elvis_knits]

What exactly are we waiting for?

I don't know.

It's sort of annoying how all the people I think are scummy are lurkers or active lurkers.

tajo is active lurking.

image came up with a big post that says nothing about hwo he thinks is scum.

kinetic has yet another excuse.

[elvis_knits]

unvote vote empking

[elvis_knits]

Inconsistent how?

Is inconsistency a scumtell? Why

Why do you single out ortolan for inconsistency rather than, say, me?

I'm thinking the answer to those things is because he's scum.

[elvis_knits]

and why.

I didn't say that- I said assuming optimal play by you you can't be scum while he is town. That is a bit of a step.

You think there was only three scum or that nobody would mention that we shouldn't claim a PR if I'm so stoopid?

Doesn't this reasoning make SSK not scum? I don't understand how empking this SSK is scum if this is his reasoning.

[elvis_knits]

Conversing with empking is painful.

[elvis_knits]

Empking, explain:

and why.

I didn't say that- I said assuming optimal play by you you can't be scum while he is town. That is a bit of a step.

You think there was only three scum or that nobody would mention that we shouldn't claim a PR if I'm so stoopid?

Doesn't this reasoning make SSK not scum? I don't understand how empking

thinks

this

SSK is scum if this is his reasoning.

[elvis_knits]

Why the fuck are you pushing Empking?

Empking is a claimed doctor. The only targetting PR besides me. My whole towniness depends of him. If you think he is scum, then I am also scum. Who thinks me and Emp are scum together? It just doesnt make sense.

All of Elvis, ort and Xyl know that he is not the best player of the world and that asking questions is not the way to go. I just learned that the bad way. What do you expect to get of him other than he is such a terrible reasoner?

There HAS to be a scum in the ort-xyl pair. Elvis, which is already obv town, is not even playing as I expect her to be playing. Im strongly leaning to Xyl here but I really need to check ort before.

tajo, if we can't ask him questions, how are we supposed to evaluate him? Are you just going to put all his bad play down as town bad play? What about scum bad play?

Also, I am still waiting for you to tell me why xyl is scum. I've gone back and forth on him several times and never really been able to feel too strongly one way or the other. So if you have a strong feeling, TELL ME WHY! I notice you played with him in MindScrew3, where he was scum. Similarities? Personally, I didn't have the patience to read much of the game and it was all weird mechanics so I found it hard to deduce anything about Xyl's scum play. But if you have a better read... speak up!

[elvis_knits]

Okay, so this is what I think now:

tajo looking townier.

empking is slow, and tunneling on SSK.

Xyl and Ortolan have forged an unlikely mind meld.

All the masons are sucking hardcore, some to all could be scum.

image has given nothing of substance today, and seems to be trying to draw his lurker count over 72 hours.

I have a couple of conspiracy theories. I know the likelihood of them being true is not great, but I cannot get them out of my head.

1)tajo and empking are scum. They're the only power roles. It's weird. Although, if they're faking, could the masons be telling the truth?

2) All the masons are scum. SSK faking a PR is bad. Them not being able to work together is bad. Kinetic not wanting to even paraphrase the QT is REALLY bad. Kinetic not contributing anything to the game besides refusing to discuss the QT is REALLY REALLY bad.

So I'm not sure if either of those is really possible, but I keep thinking about it. Feel free to tell me why either or both is impossible.

I'm thinking it's most likely that some of the masons are scum, maybe 1-2, and that image is a buddy. And if there's more that that, perhaps Xyl is scum.

I currently think that image and kinetic are the scummiest.

[elvis_knits]

unvote vote image

[elvis_knits]

Xyl and Ortolan have forged an unlikely mind meld.

not really, he is more skeptical of me than I am of him.

I'm just jealous of you because I lost my boyfriend rofl and then our threesome with steph went all to hell.

[elvis_knits]

so image is L-1... hooray!

[elvis_knits]

I think that was a good lynch... waiting to find out...

[elvis_knits]

I think one or both of SSK or Steph (yes, even though they are masons with me) could be scum.

Kinetic is probably scum. He is trying way too hard. Look at this statement of the obvious. OMG A MASON MIGHT BE SCUM??

I agree Kinetic is scummy, but I don't like your reasoning. "Trying too hard" seems too much like a fallacy, like someone being "too townie" or being "overdefensive."

Although it's possible you're just not explaining it right (whatever problem you have with him).

[elvis_knits]

I would like to know how he was "scumhunting." I understand we've had this argument before about not quoting things. But I think some sort of general statement of his actions should be okay.

Personally, this is one thing that bothered me about his recent post:

I think one or both of SSK or Steph (yes, even though they are masons with me) could be scum. I'm not sure if SSK is playing the bus on image or if Steph is playing the "stay off the townie lynch" though. Image's flip will give me a little more insight.

I don't like the second part of this because he's setting up a situation where one of them looks like scum no matter what.

Also, didn't Steph offer to hammer? So I don't think he's trying to "stay off the townie lynch." I think kinetic's framing his actions to serve his own ends here.

[elvis_knits]

God...

[elvis_knits]

Someone explain this:

10

zwetschenwasser

(

roflcopter

, ortolan,

antihero

, elvis_knits, MafiaSSK, Stephoscope,

Empking, populartajo

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

)
5 populartajo (

roflcopter

,

image

, q21, elvis_knits, Stephoscope)
9

Malyss

(

Xtoxm

, Xylthixlm,

DrippingGoofball

,

image

, q21,

BrianMcQueso

,

Empking, populartajo

,

roflcopter

)
5

DrippingGoofball

(elvis_knits, Stephoscope, Empking,

roflcopter

, Xylthixlm)
8

Xtoxm

(

SpyreX

,

roflcopter

, Xylthixlm, elvis_knits, Empking, Stephoscope,

DrippingGoofball

,

Xtoxm

)
8

DrippingGoofball

(Xylthixlm,

roflcopter

, ortolan, Empking,

SpyreX

,

image

, elvis_knits)
5

image

: ortolan, elvis_knits,

roflcopter

, Stephoscope, Xylthixlm
4 MafiaSSK (Xylthixlm, ortolan,

Empking, populartajo

)
4

image

(Stephoscope,

roflcopter

, Xylthixlm, elvis_knits)
7

Mastin

(Xylthixlm, populartajo,

Nuwen

, MafiaSSK, elvis_knits, Stephoscope,

roflcopter

)
6

Nuwen

(elvis_knits,

roflcopter

, Xylthixlm, Stephoscope, Empking, ortolan)
3 Empking (ortolan, Xylthixlm, elvis_knits)
5

image

(Xylthixlm, ortolan, elvis_knits, MafiaSSK, Kinetic)

I think the most important lynch to look at is Malyss.

9

Malyss

(

Xtoxm

, Xylthixlm,

DrippingGoofball

,

image

, q21,

BrianMcQueso

,

Empking, populartajo

,

roflcopter

)

The Malyss lynch saved AH(Mastin) from going over 72 hours and then having to die.

There are only 4 people not dead from that lynch: Xyl, q21(kinetic), Empking, tajo.

One or more of those almost has to be scum.

[elvis_knits]

As I see it the remaining plausible scumteams based on claims are:
Empking and populartajo
Empking, populartajo, and

one of elvis_knits or ortolan

xyl

A mason and

one of elvis_knits or ortolan

xyl

All three masons

Fixed.

I think we can eliminate ortolan since he was voting AH during the time of the malyss lynch. Let me know if you disagree.

I know I can eliminate myself, but I think the rest of you can too since I called out Mastin's lurking and caught him.

Xyl, I don't have any reason to completely eliminate you. Not that I really think you're scum at this point, but I have no way to eliminate you.

[elvis_knits]

According to my calculations (and I am not good at them, so I hope htis is right), if we have three scum left, we are at lylo.

I'm thinking to lynch tajo. I've wanted to practically all game, and at this point, it's sort of go hard or go home.

The only thing holding me back is the fact that the masons suck so hard. (Not really steph, but the other two).

[elvis_knits]

It makes my skin crawl that I said this:

About the tracker thing. Massclaim is the way to go. So far we have 3 confirmed masons, 1 tracker and 1 roleblocker. I dont think Yos would be that mean to have a role distribution that would only include two roles that would only interact each other. But, in the worst scenario, would the fact that I could be the only targetting power role for town means that Im scum?

If you're the only power role after the massclaim, we lynch you.

And then empking claimed doc, thus "saving" tajo.

[elvis_knits]

And you have faith that Xyl is good? Can you tell me why?

[elvis_knits]

image coming up town reduces some of the suspicion I have on ortolan.

Stephoscope, Kinetic, MafiaSSK: Scumlists. Now.

I just gave you them. Seriously?

Either way, of all the masons I've hated the way Steph has behaved all game. He absolutely doesn't want to use the thread, but the only reasons I can think of for him to act the way he is are Scummy reasons.

If you will not even paraphrase what is happening in the mason thread, I do not want to hear ONE FUCKING PEEP about how someone's behavior in the mason thread is scummy. How am I supposed to evaluate your opinion when it's completely unsubstantiated? You're the one who thinks it would be cheating and "jackassery" to paraphrase the mason thread, yet you're going to throw it up there as a reason why steph is scummy?

That is complete and utter swill.

I think one or both of SSK or Steph (yes, even though they are masons with me) could be scum. I'm not sure if SSK is playing the bus on image or if Steph is playing the "stay off the townie lynch" though. Image's flip will give me a little more insight.

I don't like the second part of this because he's setting up a situation where one of them looks like scum no matter what.

Also, didn't Steph offer to hammer? So I don't think he's trying to "stay off the townie lynch." I think kinetic's framing his actions to serve his own ends here.

So? That is how I feel about it. Steph has been acting too... something. Being overly careful but at the same time trying to act townie about it.

This is the weakest reasoning I have ever seen. Steph's acting "too something?" What does that even mean? And BTW, "too townie" is not a reason to suspect a person of being scum. "Too townie" is a reason scum give to try to attack people who are acting like, and are in fact, townies.

As for trying too hard. Bullshit. That is how I act in all games, regardless of alignment. In fact, Tar actually used the fact that I WASN'T acting like that in Mind Screw Gaiden to get suspicious of me being scum. HE WAS RIGHT.

I don't know why, but I tend to be much more active in games that I am town in, especially if I really like the game. This isn't to say I haven't been active as scum or lurked as town. I have, but its hardly a scumtell for me to be "trying to hard" as a scum. Normally, it is quite the opposite.

Please view your posts in isolation and realize that 3/4 of them have been excuses and resets of your lurker count. I don't see you as trying too hard at all. The only thing you've really argued about is that you think discussing the mason thread is somehow cheating. By your own definition of your scum play, I would have to say you're doing it!

[elvis_knits]

You have to admit that being on every wagon is totally consistent with my usual town play

I think there may be some room for improvement here though

You're on the beginning of most of those wagons. That seems more like town play than scum, IMO.


Anyone disagree?

[elvis_knits]

I'm not arguing about anything he has done in the thread, I'm arguing that he has refused to do anything.

Here. you want me to paraphrase, I'll paraphrase his entire contribution.

" ... "

Done.

That is what is scummy about it.

And what is your contribution to the thread?

And what are you trying to accomplish in the mason thread? I really don't see why you can't have your conversations in THIS thread, or at least tell us what you're talking about in the other thread.

---

TELL ME HOW THE FOLLOWING TWO QUOTES DON'T DIRECTLY CONTRADICT EACH OTHER:

Steph has been acting too... something. Being overly careful but at the same time trying to act townie about it.

I didn't say he was acting too townie. I don't think he is acting townie at all, so don't put words in my mouth.

---

The reasoning I placed is that he is acting too careful, too timid, afraid to get his feet wet or make a statement. About the only thing he has stuck on is his refusal to do anything.

I really don't think steph has played that way.

[elvis_knits]

Im pretty sure at least one of "Xyl, ort and Kin" is scum if not all of them. Two seems the right number here but they are jumping against me so easy without thinking it very much even when today could be game over.

So you think the scum are the three people voting you?

[elvis_knits]

tajo, I want to give you a chance if you're town. I am deliberately trying not to tunnel.

I agree that xyl is very scummy for throwing suspicion on steph and ort. Well, he hasn't said ort is scum, but he's said he isn't obv town. In my opinion, ort is obv town for voting AH when he could have been lynching malyss.

However, I still cannot get my head around the low number of power roles, and feel this indicates you are scum fake claiming. I don't understand a game with two town power roles and a mafia roleblocker. That seems ridiculous.

[elvis_knits]

Elvis, if this game is solved with "you are scum because your claim doesnt make sense" instead of scummy behavior, then there is not much I can do.

This isnt a normal game. Its the first game Ive played with two lynches a day, three masons and two "random" power roles. I agree it looks bad but Ive given my best to prove Im town.

You realize you had to claim on D1, when nobody had any idea about power roles?

I think it would be perfectly natural for a scum to claim a power role to avoid a lynch in that situation.

I also see no evidence that there are power roles in this game. It's not normal that all the power roles live until the end. And also, it's ver abnormal for all power roles to live until the end and not be able to give ANY results.

I know you say it's because you're being blocked every night. But all we've had flip is vanilla townies and goons. I don't even know there is a mafia roleblocker.

IF there is a mafia roleblocker, I would think there HAS to be a mafia GF. I don't understand a setup with "mafia goon, mafia goon, mafia roleblocker (and maybe another goon???)"

So if you're town... you're telling me that we are playing a game with only two random power roles, VS. a mafia roleblocker and a mafia GF, and that neither of the town power roles died OR got any results, and that neither of the mafia power roles died. Does that really seem possible?

[elvis_knits]

Your point is that this is a mountanious setup without even caring about masons, that means a game with only goons and vanillas.

I admit I have no idea how to deal with the masons or how they fit into this. I hate them so much (not steph, but the others).

The point you have to analyse Elvis is that if I were scum I would have known mafia only had goons. Tracker would have been a retarded claim. I softclaimed my role even before I was heavily threatened to get lynched.

If scum only had goons, would that make you think there's no town power roles?

Also, I dont see how a godfather makes sense in this game. Ive seen plenty of games with roleblockers and goons only.

Really? I'm not the queen of setups and balance, so I don't know. Can you give me some examples?

---

At this point tajo, I really want to lynch kinetic because he's being scummy and a huge dick. He's bullying steph for no reason that I can see.

But I am having problems seeing the setup you present as even possible. At this point, I really want to be convinced because I want to taste kinetic's blood.

[elvis_knits]

I still go back and forth on Xyl.

Your point about him being on every wagon is somewhat valid. But does it make any difference to you that he is first or second on many wagons?

I usually see scum joining wagons rather than starting them. Of course sometimes they start wagons, but I think they're usually more opportunistic, and switch their vote to a wagon already started.

Xyl has changed his mind on people a lot, but I'm not sure if I feel that's scummy or not. Town change their mind too. I guess it's the manner of changing your mind.

[elvis_knits]

But do you think this fits with the "wimp mode" Xyl said to be in?

Starting the majority of wagons does not seem like wimp mode, no.

Part of my inability to read xyl may stem from never playing with him before (except for the invitational, where he was a replacement). In the invitational, he was a very good scum hunter. He would have hammered all the scum if I hadn't gotten to the last one before him.

This game he hasn't been so good, but I don't think any player is exactly as good from one game to the next. Personally, I have games where I am much better than others.

[elvis_knits]

kinetic: suck one.

EK: How does hammering scum make him a good scum hunter? Doesn't the fact that in that game he was very late to bandwagons make you think about yhow he's the complete opisite in this game?

This is actually a good point.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, do you think a mafia RB would necessitate a mafia GF?

[elvis_knits]

So I'm trying to ignore all my setup concerns and just scum hunt. I'm trying to pay no attention to the setup and what it might or might not be.

I took a happy walking tour of Xyl's posts, and I have some very important issues to discuss.

1)Xyl thought we should not lynch Zwet.
2)Xyl leaves the door open for NOT lynching lurkers (first time when he says we "should lynch them unless you are very, very sure they're town" and the second time, when he tries to give Mastin a chance to prove his story is true that he said he thought he posted.)
3)Xyl repeatedly calls AH scum, and never votes for him (incidentally, he also repeatedly calls Ortolan scum, and never votes for him).
4)Xyl repeatedly calls AH scum while pushing the Malyss wagon.
5)Xyl has voted for people he said he was sure were town. (tajo brought this up before, so I'm not quoting anything to do with this one). Changing your mind about a player is normal, but you should have good reason to do so. I haven't seen that from Xyl.

In this game,

if someone lurks 72 hours, you should lynch them unless you are very, very sure they are town.

Even if you think you have a scum totally caught... lynch the lurker instead.

Also, lynch anyone who doesn't want to lynch lurkers.

This seems to be tough on lurkers, but really, it opens the door for perhaps NOT lynching a lurker who goes over 72 hours.

No hammer.

Yet.

This was regarding Zwet.

vote populartajo

Feels better than a zwet lynch right now.

Antihero, image, and Malyss are scum. There should be another one or two I'm missing, but that's most of the scumteam right there.

antihero is scum.

I don't remember why I decided that, but it had something to do with interactions with zwet.

I will vote Antihero once he actually passes 72 hours.

Interesting how Xyl says AH is scum three times, but will not vote him unless he actually passes 72 hours. HE would rather lynch Malyss.

Just a question to all the antivote voters?
You realize that all the poeple lurking and active lurkign, he is the least possible zet scumpartner, right?

How so?

Meanwhile encouraging hammer on Malyss.

poptajo: Have you considered the possibility he was bussing against a scumbuddy he thought was actually scummy and a liability to the scumteam?

Take a look at zwet's reactions to antihero and tell us what you think.

Current scumteam shotgun: image, Antihero, ortolan.

ortolan: Why were you voting Antihero yesterday?

Maybe Antihero should get an honorable mention for nearly lurking 72 hours.

One note: no lynching before everyone has posted. If both Antihero and BMQ end up passing the threshold, we'll have to use today's two lynches on them. Trying to rush so the whole day lasts less than 72h would hurt more than it would help.

I'm thinking that Antihero has either flaked or is pretending to (account seems like an alt), but I'll wait until it's official.

Now, let's wait for Antihero to reach 72h, then lynch him.

For someone that Xyl seems convinced is scum, he seems very resistant to voting him. He only wants to lynch AH if AH goes over 72 hours.

Xyl, why is ortolan in this list?

Current scumteam shotgun: image, Antihero, ortolan.

Partially his vote for Antihero at the end of D1, partially gut read I can't really explain.

I would like more clarification on why Xyl thought Ortolan was scummy for voting AH. I don't understand.

ortolan: you're haring off in a completely wrong direction but I think you're doing it for protown reasons, thus "stupid not scummy".

Xyl included Ortolan in many of his scum lists, and was recently attacking Ortolan, but now he's putting Ortolan's actions down as "stupid not scummy"??? Why? I don't understand that.

My read of this interraction is that you're trying to manipulate ort into changing his mind (being less "stupid"), or manipulate me into thinking ort is not scummy. It seems like a subtle protective or coaching move on Ort.

My paranoia tells me that MafiaSSK is a cult leader.

This is a red herring. Confuses the town. No reason for a townie to say this.

Oh yeah, ortolan is scummy too

Uh, I thought he was "stupid, not scummy"?

INTERRACTION WITH MASTIN:

Let's put it this way: your going over the 72 hours line shifts your burden from "preponderance of the evidence" to "guilty until proven innocent".

The fact you're even thinking of letting Mastin prove he's innocent, is REALLY SCUMMY! The idea that you *might* let Mastin off the hook here is very scummy.

I'm giving you a chance to prove at least part of your story is true here, and you're flubbing it.

Why were you helping this guy?

I understand trying to get info out of a scum before they get lynched, but your questions seemed geared ONLY toward helping him prove he's town, not toward findingout who his buddies were.

[elvis_knits]

Elvis: imagine the masons were confirmed and one had come up dead. Would you still advocate lynching a 100% town playerfor going over 72h? I wouldn't.

I wouldn't either, if they were confirmed.

Is that what you were thinking of when you said we should be very very sure someone is town before we let a lurker live?

[elvis_knits]

On iPhone, can't respond to whole post, so I'll just answer the last one. I was giving mastin chances to prove his townieness because I expected him to fail and hoped that would push some fence-sitting players to vote him.

No, this explanation doesn't fly. We didn't need more reasons to lynch Mastin. Nobody was fence-sitting. We weren't in danger of not getting enough votes to lynch Mastin.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, please tell me why you repeatedly called AH scum (for no apparent reason), yet failed to ever vote him (until AH/mastin lurked over 72 hours)?

[elvis_knits]

Well, I don't buy it.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, please tell me why you repeatedly called AH scum (for no apparent reason), yet failed to ever vote him (until AH/mastin lurked over 72 hours)?

Because I was voting other people

Why should I try to build a bandwagon on someone no one else seems to think is scum when there are other people I think are scummy who have some support

FAIL.

There were other people suspicious of AH. I remember Ortolan voting him at one point. I remember people switching their vote to AH at the end of day in in anticipation of him going over 72 hours. You thought it would be better to lynch Malyss before AH went over 72 hours. You called for the hammer. If you think they're both scum, no reason to save AH like that. You could have let it play out, at least.

Also, I have seen you start and build bandwagons on people this whole game, so why would you decide not to try it on AH?

And you still haven't explained why you thought AH was scummy in the first place. And telling me you don't remember will not work. You repeatedly called him scum. You didn't mention him vaguely one time. You said it repeatedly, so I expect you to remember your reasoning.

[elvis_knits]

3 populartajo (ortolan, Xylthixlm, Kinetic)
1 Kinetic (Stephoscope)

4 Unvote (elvis_knits, Empking, MafiaSSK, populartajo)

8 alive; 5 to lynch.

This tells me that either A) Ort and/or Xyl is scum or Pop is scum.

What do you think of my case on Xyl?

[elvis_knits]

I don't remember why I decided that, but it had something to do with interactions with zwet.

This is what you said. This is all you can remember? You can't go back and refresh your memory of AH?

I think it's strange if you can't remember why you called someone scum repeatedly.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, you have to admit that's pretty weak.

You correctly call one of the scum, with no reason for doing so, and repeatedly call his SCUMZOR, yet never vote him?

You call lots of people scum based on your gut, and go after all of them except the one who really is scum?

Huge coincidence!

[elvis_knits]

Okay.

vote Xyl

[elvis_knits]

I liked your previous judgement where you were calling me town better

If you try to work with me, I might change my mind. But you're not giving me anything I like.

[elvis_knits]

1)Xyl thought we should not lynch Zwet.

Guilty of bad judgement.

It's a point against you if that's your explanation.

2)Xyl leaves the door open for NOT lynching lurkers (first time when he says we "should lynch them unless you are very, very sure they're town"

Lynching role-confirmed people is bad even if they lurk.

I agree. However, I note that you didn't say stipulate that you were talking about role-confirmed people when you made the original statement.

and the second time, when he tries to give Mastin a chance to prove his story is true that he said he thought he posted.)

I kept my vote on the entire time. Also, he failed.

So what?

3)Xyl repeatedly calls AH scum, and never votes for him (incidentally, he also repeatedly calls Ortolan scum, and never votes for him).

Ooo! Shiny!

Being obnoxious will not win you any points with me. It only makes me want to kill you faster.

4)Xyl repeatedly calls AH scum while pushing the Malyss wagon.

Kitty! Here kitty kitty kitty!

See above. Also, it's not an explanation, but a sarcastic deflection.

5)Xyl has voted for people he said he was sure were town. (tajo brought this up before, so I'm not quoting anything to do with this one). Changing your mind about a player is normal, but you should have good reason to do so. I haven't seen that from Xyl.

This point might be valid if you didn't have meta reason to know that I change my mind frequently.

I have only played with you once and you were a replacement, so you weren't even in it the whole time.

Also, I dislike these meta reasons. I think you using them is scummy.

Let's treat this game like an island. Like maybe address my problem with you changing your mind without much stated reason, instead of just telling me I should know better?

Xyl included Ortolan in many of his scum lists, and was recently attacking Ortolan, but now he's putting Ortolan's actions down as "stupid not scummy"??? Why? I don't understand that.

I felt like the post was attacking the wrong people but for good reasons. I later changed my mind on that.

But if you already thought he was scummy, I would expect you to see it more like he was attacking the wrong people because he's scum, not because he's stupid.

what is your read of Ortolan now? I think you disliked his AH vote on D1. I think it makes him look town, but if you think differently, I would like ot hear it.

My read of this interraction is that you're trying to manipulate ort into changing his mind (being less "stupid"), or manipulate me into thinking ort is not scummy. It seems like a subtle protective or coaching move on Ort.

If you want to assume I'm super manipulative scum and read that into everything I do you'll find it. After all I'm

super manipulative

so anything that doesn't look scummy is just me being awesome, while anything that looks slightly off is a subtle manipulation attempt. I don't think anyone could come off townie under that lens.

It might be reading too much into it, but I am definitely not just assuming you're super manipulative scum and not even giving you a chance. I am trying to discuss everything with you and be fair. Also, most of my points are things that are not even up for debate... like you repeatedly calling AH scum, having no reason for doing so, and never voting him. That's fact. I am not reading you with a set mind.

My paranoia tells me that MafiaSSK is a cult leader.

This is a red herring. Confuses the town. No reason for a townie to say this.

My paranoia demanded to be heard! Does anything about my play suggest that I carefully consider what I'm saying before I say it?

I think you're not a dumbass, yes.

I understand trying to get info out of a scum before they get lynched, but your questions seemed geared ONLY toward helping him prove he's town, not toward findingout who his buddies were.

I did want to know his alignment before lynching him

Would you have considered not lynching him? Is there a scenario where he doesn't get lynched?

[elvis_knits]

You're insane.

This doesn't make me want to unvote you.

It sounds like you have a problem with my playstyle.

I don't have a problem with your playstyle. I've been relatively okay with you all game. I have a problem with some of your actions as they relate to known scum.

"Gut" is not no reason.

Gut is invisible to anyone but yourself. I don't know if you're faking it or not.

Answer me this: When is a townie who says what they think better for the town than a townie who doesn't?

Sure, townies should say what they think, but:

When you're a townie, part of your job is to try not to say things that will screw up the town by 1)Getting yourself lynched or 2)Get everyone distracted with nightmares about cults when there's no evidence of a cult.

[elvis_knits]

This doesn't make me want to unvote you.

My goal is to provide information you can use to make a decision, not to make you feel warm and fuzzy about me.

MAKE ME FEEL WARM AND FUZZY! NOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

[elvis_knits]

When you're a townie, part of your job is to try not to say things that will screw up the town by 1)Getting yourself lynched or 2)Get everyone distracted with nightmares about cults when there's no evidence of a cult.

I tend to assume that the other townies are competent enough to avoid either of those. Besides, why should I have to censor what I say? That's what scum do.

I don't know. I try to avoid scum tells as scum (obv) but also as town because I don't want to make the town waste time attacking me or lynching me, since I know that will not lynch scum.

[elvis_knits]

Did you really think there was a cult?

[elvis_knits]

You say you don't buss. Why not?

[elvis_knits]

possible scum:

Empking/tajo
Empking/tajo/Xyl
Empking/tajo/Kinetic
Xyl/Kinetic

I see Xyl/Kinetic as most likely right now.

[elvis_knits]

3 populartajo (ortolan, Xylthixlm, Kinetic)
1 Kinetic (Stephoscope)

4 Unvote (elvis_knits, Empking, MafiaSSK, populartajo)

8 alive; 5 to lynch.

This tells me that either A) Ort and/or Xyl is scum or Pop is scum.

I don't like this post.

1) No comment on my Xyl case.

2) Encouraging a possible false dilema.

[elvis_knits]

I think there could be scum in the masonry. I think kinetic is scummiest.

But I think its also possible for them all to be town and the scum has left them alive because they suck hard and provide lots of confusion. Thet's a perfect thing to leave in the game. Plus they can always fall back on "lynch fake PR SSK!" if they get into real trouble (like Xyl tried again last page).

[elvis_knits]

elvis: tajo is the one WIFOMing hard about how the lack of a dead mason must mean one of them is scum.

He might be right since kinetic is so scummy.

He could very well be wrong though. I don't see how it's scummy if he's wrong.

[elvis_knits]

I see Xyl/Kinetic as most likely right now.

if it's 2 man that's alright, but we need to insure ourselves against 3 scum remaining in my honest opinion. tajo is a better lynch than Xyl

Problem is I don't see tajo with Xyl and kinetic, and Xyl and kinetic are the ones I feel are most scummy.

Well, I could see tajo with kinetic. But I don't see tajo with Xyl.

What should we assume from the fact that tajo and Xyl are both at 3 and are not being lynched?

[elvis_knits]

I don't really see me convincing elvis here, since her argument is basically "you didn't catch scum", which is true. I could bullshit something about how my interactions with antihero/Malyss show I'm not scum because I don't bus, but I don't think that defense would convince

me

, so I won't bother.

I don't think you did buss antihero. You called him scum and never voted for him, pushing the lynches of other people. That's not bussing.

[elvis_knits]

I see Xyl/Kinetic as most likely right now.

if it's 2 man that's alright, but we need to insure ourselves against 3 scum remaining in my honest opinion. tajo is a better lynch than Xyl

Problem is I don't see tajo with Xyl and kinetic, and Xyl and kinetic are the ones I feel are most scummy.

Well, I could see tajo with kinetic. But I don't see tajo with Xyl.

What should we assume from the fact that tajo and Xyl are both at 3 and are not being lynched?

Stop concentrating on who's scummy and look at the goddamn role distribution.

What are the possible 3-man scumteams that include me that would result in a not-totally-imbalanced setup?

And for goodness's sake unvote while you work on it.

LOL

XYL SAYS: STOP CONCENTRATING ON WHO IS SCUMMY!

What?

I am not good at setups and balance, but I've been trying to outguess the mod. Nobody really wanted to help me until now, when I have gone back to plain scum hunting. Now you're all like, "forget scum hunting and outguess the mod, since I look like scum."

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, you're thinking possibles are like this?

possible scum:

Empking/tajo
Empking/tajo/Xyl
Empking/tajo/Kinetic
Xyl/Kinetic

[elvis_knits]

Sigh. I don't think I'm going to knock some sense into elvis here. Good news is that with tajo on Empking on my wagon, if we're in the 3 scum (LyLo) scenario, at least one more townie would need to hop on my wagon to lose.

MafiaSSK and Stephoscope, your call.

MafiaSSK in particular should recall how good I am at setup analysis on IRC

Every time I try to get info out of you, you give up and play victim.

Break it down for me.

What are your possible scum groups?

[elvis_knits]

elvis, have you changed your mind on tajo?

This question remains unanswered.

The answer, obviously, is yes.

I am saying I think you and kinetic are scum.

[elvis_knits]

I know I'm not scum, and the rest of you should too. Including me here is ridiculous.

Also, I think Ortolan is town. I've said many time how I think it unlikely for him to be scum since he was voting AH at the end of day one instead of lynching malyss.

So I'm crossing out eveyr possibility with Ort or me.

Okay. 3-man remaining scumgroup case ONLY. Just for clarity I think we have only 2 scum left, but in that case we have one mislynch before LyLo.

What we have to work with:
1. We can't have both a claimed power role and a mason be scum. It would leave the scum overpowered.
2. No more than one mason is scum.
3. Tajo's claim is ridiculous unless empking's is also true.
4. If neither tajo nor two of me/ortolan/Kinetic are scum, scum would have hammered in one. Elvis, in particular, could have easily hopped onto the tajo wagon and then waited for a scumbuddy.

The possible scumgroups divide into three basic sets.

Combinations with a power role(s) as scum

populartajo+Empking+ortolan

populartajo+Empking+Xylthixlm

populartajo+Empking+elvis_knits

populartajo+ortolan+Xylthixlm

populartajo+ortolan+elvis_knits
populartajo+Xylthixlm+elvis_knits

Combinations with a mason as scum

MafiaSSK+ortolan+Xylthixlm
Stephoscope+ortolan+Xylthixlm
Kinetic+ortolan+Xylthixlm
Kinetic+ortolan+elvis_knits
Kinetic+Xylthixlm+elvis_knits

Combinations with all vanillas as scum

ortolan+Xylthixlm+elvis_knits

So there are teams which involve me, but not elvis_knits or populartajo, with ortolan and a mason. Hmm. I hadn't noticed those ones before because I wasn't looking.

Hey elvis, what do you think of ortolan?

The only possibility not crossed off is tajo-emp-Xyl.

In that scenario, I can vote either tajo or Xyl, and even if there's a three-man scum team, I am covered.

Hooray!

Xyl, if you want me to believe that it's possible for Ortolan to be scum, you're going to have to explain to me why Ortolan would be voting AH at the end of Day 1 instead of lynching malyss. Even if he was scum and scared to help with the malyss lynch, I can't see him voting AH at that time.

If you disagree with my assessment, speak up now.

[elvis_knits]

You 3-man analysis looks good, except that you forgot that me bussing Tajo is ridiculous

I don't really think you and tajo are buddies either.

So do you agree that ort is town or not?

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, you're confusing me.

Now you're saying the masons have to all be town? Because of Mith's numbers or something?

I don't get it.

[elvis_knits]

Okay... keep going...

How does that mean the masons are all town?

If tajo-emp are scum, they're prob the only scum left, but why does your balance thing have to mean they are the scum?

[elvis_knits]

If I read it correctly, assuming there are only 2 scum left, the ONLY possible combination of scum in this scenario are the "power roles" because any of the power roles being true would unbalance the scenario in favor of the town.

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Xyl, is this correct?

[elvis_knits]

I'm not sure I can do this. I am allergic to no lynch.

I will look through the arguments and see if I can do it, but I am very against no lynch in principle.

[elvis_knits]

Do we lynch tajo now?

[elvis_knits]

Im sorry about my activity in all my games. V/LA until the 2nd.

Just PLEASE dont lynch me.

When people say please don't lynch me, I always think it would be funny to lynch them immediately.

But I guess we can wait until tomorrow...

[elvis_knits]

Do we lynch tajo now?

Signs point to yes.

Aren't you surprised that I went from wanting to kill you, back to "let's lynch tajo"?

[elvis_knits]

You're not obv town. I just figured you wouldn't go for the nolynch/nokill thing if you were scum.

I mean, maybe you did it to earn town points or because you were on the block, but I lean more toward you actually being town.

[elvis_knits]

tajo voted nolynch, but I think he was the last to do so. That's what I would expect scum to do, vote nolynch to get town cred when you think you have no choice.

[elvis_knits]

I'll believe you (elvis) think I'm town on gut and are looking for a logical reason, though.

You're kind of right on this though.

I have felt you were town on gut most of the game. I guess it's just the tone of your posts and the way you don't seem to run from responsibility for your actions... that strikes me as non-weaselly.

However, your actions associated with known scum look bad, which made me suspicious yesterday.

[elvis_knits]

Im sorry about my activity in all my games. V/LA until the 2nd.

Just PLEASE dont lynch me.

Oh where oh where can my tajo be?

[elvis_knits]

Did "power roles" give targets?

[elvis_knits]

Bah, too easy, lynch me and then lynch Xyl.

Sounds like a plan.

vote tajo

[elvis_knits]

Bah, too easy, lynch me and then lynch Xyl.

Sounds like a plan.

vote tajo

Im so glad you are still alive. What made you change your mind abotu me?

You sound bitter. Did you try to kill me last night?

[elvis_knits]

tajo, if you're town, we lynch Xyl.

[elvis_knits]

tajo, if you're town, we lynch Xyl.

Thoughts of Ort, please Elvis. I think Im into something here. Second lynch of the day is very probable Lylo.

I think Ort is town. He was voting AH when we lynch malyss.

[elvis_knits]

tajo, if you're town, we lynch Xyl.

Thoughts of Ort, please Elvis. I think Im into something here. Second lynch of the day is very probable Lylo.

I think Ort is town. He was voting AH when we lynch malyss.

Bussing

But at that point it was either lynch malyss before AH hits 72 hours, or wait for Ah to hit 72 hours and lynch him. I sort of think scum would rather not buss in that scenario, especially given how we had already lynched zwetscum for the first lynch of the day.

[elvis_knits]

if he, laughably is town, we lynch Kinetic afterwards.

Why kinetic?

[elvis_knits]

cause only alternative at that point is Kinetic/probably Xyl.

And you pick kinetic over xyl because?

[elvis_knits]

The masons are being very uncooperative.

If we can't lynch tajo, let's lynch a mason.

[elvis_knits]

I'm still voting him... I'm trying...

[elvis_knits]

why do you think it is so hard to lynch the scummy "tracker"? Do you think it might be because he is scum?

Yeah and his buddy(ies) aren't bussing.

[elvis_knits]

The masons are being very uncooperative.

My vote is where I think it should be. It is really time to go in a different direction here.

You've hardly said anything about why you thikn Xyl is scum though. You're just putting faith in empking. If agreeing with Empking is your main basis for a vote, that's a pretty bad idea.

[elvis_knits]

hi

[elvis_knits]

Stop concentrating on who's scummy and look at the goddamn role distribution.

What are the possible 3-man scumteams that include me that would result in a not-totally-imbalanced setup?

And for goodness's sake unvote while you work on it.

LOL

XYL SAYS: STOP CONCENTRATING ON WHO IS SCUMMY!

What?

I am not good at setups and balance, but I've been trying to outguess the mod. Nobody really wanted to help me until now, when I have gone back to plain scum hunting. Now you're all like, "forget scum hunting and outguess the mod, since I look like scum."

XYL SAYS: PTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHBT!

I chose right ultimately though!

Uh, so I like the mpking lynch much, and hoping the game is over with that one.

[elvis_knits]

FWIW, I think ort is town, and if the game is not over, if there are more scum out there, I would be looking to lynch one of the masons, prob kinetic.

I will say again, Ort was pushing to lynch AH when he could have easily lynched malyss. Also, he's been consistently pushing for tajo/emp lynches today. We know tajo was scum, and I bet Emp is too. Nobody busses to that extent. It's suicide.

[elvis_knits]

Funny thing is that after we lynched zwet, we almost lynched tajo or AH on D1. The only reason AH would have gotten it was for lurking, but still...

So the only scum who didn't get scrutiny on D1 was empking... lol

[elvis_knits]

tajo's "I'm confirmable" softclaim really lost the scum the game, it just took a while to kick in.

Score one for forcing hardclaims.

Now that I think about it, pretty much every time I've seen a softclaim, it's been from scum.

Lessons:
Softclaiming=scummy.
No results=scummy

Also, Empking should not have claimed doc. I guess he did it to save tajo, and they almost got away with it, but really it was too much of a gambit and tied them too closely.

[elvis_knits]

Yeah, DGB's self-destruct "Lynch Xyl tomorrow" was total bullshit. Xtoxm's wasn't any better. We got no useful information at all from those lynches; it's lucky that we caught the scum based on role claims so we didn't need it.

We almost self-destructed from the clash of all the aggressive players and DGB/Xtoxm suiciding on D2.

I think tajo lived so long partly because of his claim and also because we got distracted by DGB offering to die instead.

I'm starting to think I never want people to claim. If they're scummy, they should just die anyway, no matter what they claim. Although maybe they should get a chance to prove their role. But anyone claimed to be "roleblocked" the entire game should just get the axe. I know it will be the truth sometimes (that they were roleblocked), but I think most of the time it will be scum.

[elvis_knits]

Would we (scum) have stood a chance if I didn't?

Tajo would have been autolynched. I'm not sure if you could have won on your own, since being the last scum, you would have had to live through a lot more lynches.

And you almost did swing the town the other way, so I shouldn't have said it was such a bad play. It was a gutsy move, and I actually like that.

[elvis_knits]

I really had a good time playing with everyone in this game. There were a lot of aggressive players, which made it fun and exciting even when we were fighting. I didn't like the suicides, but I still love DGB and Xtoxm, and would play with them anytime.

Threesome with rofl and steph was kinky and awesome.

Sorry for playing football with your spleen, nuwen.

Thanks Yos and Ether for a great game.

[elvis_knits]

elvis was the mvp for being the most obv town and living to endgame to make the right choice

I'm a little embarassed I almost lynched Xyl after you were dead, but I blame that on my overwhelming grief upon your demise.

[elvis_knits]

Also, barring my horrible softclaim and posterior claim, did i play a good game, so-so, terrible? Where can I improve and such?

Thx in advance.

I first voted you during the zwet wagon because you were posting up a storm and not voting. It was a sign that you were active but not scum hunting.

You did a good job of manipulating me though. You kept writing these posts using my first name. It went something like this:

Carrie, why are you doing this?!?

You're so mean to your alpaca!

Which I did see as manipulation, but at the same time they still worked on me to a certain extent. I felt bad about attacking you so much.

[elvis_knits]

Xtoxm has politely reminded me that I should be mad at MafiaSSK for being a colossal idiot.

MafiaSSK, you are a colossal idiot and should never play mafia again, ever, in any universe where I exist. Go take up Parcheesi or something.

This "you are a colossal idiot" rant brought to you by Xtoxm.

lol

I like Parcheesi.

[elvis_knits]

Lessons from this game...

DO believe roflcopter (as long as he's playing to his town meta)

DON'T believe DrippingGoofball

Correction: Rofl always goes off half-cocked, and NEVER trust him in a game where he does not have something to restrain him. (i.e. WoH, no restraint, this game, elvis restraint)

I think that even though rofl is not always right, he is right an above average percentage, and that his pressure is very useful whether he's right or not. One of the things I think really helps the town is when he stops people from going in ten different directions. It forces the pressure onto one person which gives a better read on the one person, and forces everyone to comments on the one wagon.

For me, personally, it eliminates a lot of confusion (as I tend to go off on tangents). I understand how some people find it frustrating to be the target of rofl's wrath, but I think in the long run it's a good thing.

[elvis_knits]

I have a yellow lab too! I must say, she knows scum when she sees it. One time when she met this guy who sucks, she immediately threw up by his feet.

[elvis_knits]

Elvis: That yellow lab wouldn't happen to be your avatar, now, would it?

I have a black lab. He's getting old. :/

HOW DID YOU KNOW?! YES!

Let's talk about labs more. What is your dog's name?

Also... I <3 both dgb and rofl. I can't wait until the decide to end the sexual tension and just do it already.

[elvis_knits]

Isn't rofl like 12 and DGB like 30?

I'm 43. By the time he's old enough for me, I'll be long dead.

I don't see why you guys should let death get in the way of true love.

[elvis_knits]

rofl, are you really twelve? I feel a little weird about that threesome now... please don't tell the cops

[elvis_knits]

[elvis_knits]

lol... how do I always find myself in an animal sandwich?

Luckily, I have proof that rofl seduced me. Blame him:

[elvis_knits]

Stop beating my bunny.