The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Saw this in Tox''s post. What''s this?Lamont_Cranston wrote:Vig Vote Tally
8am GMT June 25Deadline:
Setael-7 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)
Devastation-5 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, X)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo,)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)
Not vig-voting scum:AJ
"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
''Haastige spoed is zelden goed'' >.<Lamont_Cranston wrote:Vig Vote Tally
8am GMT June 26(?)Deadline:
Setael-7 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished, Sironi, Devastation, Zwet, Dramonic)
Devastation-5 (Stepho, Rock, Elmo, Naomi, Xtoxm)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo,)
Lamont-1 (Setael)
Pablo-1 (Tajo)
Not vig-voting scum:Zazier
"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"
(Haste makes waste)Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
That''s quite a surprise But a pleasant surprise though <3populartajo wrote:
Hi Zazie.ZazieR wrote:Hi
(Sorry Tajo... This will likely be your third game in which you are stuck with me >.< I''ll try to behave during my read and analysis)
Its always nice to see you around and comment.
If you are town obv obv.
<3Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
If scum have a roleblocker, it''s allowed to roleblock and kill the same player on one night, if that''s what you are asking.Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Please explain this.populartajo wrote: If Amished is doc, I dont think its extremely obligatory for scum to kill him.
My question goes only to game mechanics. Is it at least reasonable to assume that Mafia can both RB & kill Amished?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Lamont wrote:Now this is a whole different ball of wax. AJ will be replaced 100%. We need a replacement that is willing to re-read and make a responsible decision. I would recommend they start at least from D2 (Pg. 46) and read from there and see what they think, what questions they have etc.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Ok, starting with posts that caught my attention.
The first one is post 557 (Devestation):
Bolded is what bugs me. The given items can either help or destroy. If you''re town, you want to have an item in case it helps as catching scum comes before surviving. Also, you know your allignment. If you have an item, you know that it''s town who is controlling it. If you''re scum, you can try to get an item in case it helps town, but it could cost you your life. Which is something scum don''t want.Okay Lamont, firstly the "battle of items" is something I quoted from YOU (post 529 which was in turn quoted from xtoxm), so don't try and pin that term on me.
Secondly: I did not say it WAS happening, I said "this might happen". Right now it CAN'T happen as there are not enough items present to HAVE a "battle", but if items start showing up at a faster rate I would expect to see something interesting show up.
To be honest, I don't want to even get one of those items in the first place.
This is why I find it scummy that Devestation doesn''t want to have an item.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Next would be post 620 (NuevaVida):
Very scummy. The choice should have been based upon the thought if you think it would be good for town to use or bad. This gives me the impression that he doesn''t care. Normally anti-town. But as it wasn''t shown how he did it ''randomly'', he could have chosen himself. This seems very likely to be the case as Lamont already had votes to drink the red fluid (now known as Cho''s blood).NuevaVida wrote:DeCanter vote Lamont Cranston
I just used random.org and well i got you. I prefer random for thingsss which I have no idea what they couuld doIgnore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Next would be a post from Setael (Post 931)
In it, she votes Devestation, while she also wouldn''t mind to vote Stepho. The next post shows a VC:
So I''d like to know from her why she didn''t switch to Stepho after this VC as he already had one vote from somebody else.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Vote Count
Lamont_Cranston - 6 (Sajin, hohum, Amished, Pablo Molinero, Devestation, Stephoscope)
Naomi_Saotome - 4 (Xtoxm, populartajo, Sironigous, Pyromaniac)
Pablo Molinero - 2 (Lamont_Cranston, Naomi_Saotome)
Stephoscope - 1 (The Replacement)
Devestation - 1 (Setael)
Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Then we come at Amished''s claim (Post 1062)
I''d like to know what he had written/asked to the mod as he mentioned PM''s.
Also, I don''t like this:Due to pm's between the mod and I, I have no reason to believe I'm anything other than performing like a normal doctor. I've already asked if protecting hohum on N3 will save him, and KoC stated that he couldn't reveal that information.
I find it odd that the mod couldn''t tell what would happen to Hohum, but that he could tell what would happen if a target would be hit by an item, while both fall under the same category.Post 1174 wrote: I PM'd KoC and dayvigs or items with killing properties if picked up by somebody I protected will no longer kill. Other effects (probably *like* Lamont's posting restriction) will still take place, but dayvigs or items that kill won't work.
Therefore, I doubt that there has been any communications between the mod and Amished of this kind.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
The following post (Post 1097) makes me doubt his claim even more.
In this post, Amished ''answer'' Pyro''s question about what his flavour is. However, he doesn''t say what his so-called flavour is in his role. He tells something about Jonathan in the games.
Questions about this post:
Why did you add ''the Gatekeeper''?
Could you rephrase the part aimed at Hohum?
And what do you have as flavour in your role?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
This isn''t a very important post (Post 1196), but I do want to hear an answer from Lamont.
Why did you put all these VC''s into one post and what did you learn from it?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Continuing with post 1257:
Very scummy vote. He''s voting her for not using her claimed ability. So either he thinks she''s telling the truth, but for one reason votes her. Or he thinks she''s scum. I get the impression it''s the first due to post 1274.Sironigous wrote:
...are you serious?Naomi wrote:No I did not investigate, although I was tempted to... I decided to wait till tonight because I want the town's input on my choice...
You were basically one of the top D1 lynch candidates yet you give up the major chance to help the town in even a little way.
sick.
Vote: NaomiIgnore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Regarding Post 1368, Sir, what do you mean with:Minor suspicions -
anyone rushing Naomi lynch after she claimed.
especially...
Lamont and Zwet, but Zwet more than Lamont.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
I forgot in which post I found the following quote, but it was re-quoted by Lamont in post 1414:
If you think he''s scum, how can he be falling into a scum trap?Lamont_Cranston wrote:Also, has anyone ever heard of a dr. that protects themself as well as a multitude of other people? Especially without a scum roleblocker? How is that balanced?@Setael:Do you see here how you could be falling into a scum trap by thinking this way? On the other hand, if you are correct, how do we explain Ho living an extra day??
So what is the explanation here??Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Then came Post 1420
First he used both his vote and vig-vote against somebody he thought was scum. Now, he wants to use his vig-vote against a player he doesn''t think is scum.Pablo Molinero wrote:(well, come on, he's just useless and you know the scum ain't gonna NK him)unvote, vote Zwet
Pablo, what''s your opinion of Devestation?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
This is very scummy to me.Stephoscope wrote:
Let's answer that later. For now, let's discuss why in the world you want to make a decision about lynching when we don't even know what the vig will reveal.Elmo wrote:Why has Stepho dropped off everyone's radar after getting wagoned nicely D1?
Yesterday, there was a no-lynch, mainly because of what was discussed during the day: What to do with the fluid.
Now, he''s trying to get it this way again by trying to only discuss the possible day-kill.
This is even worse when he''s vig-voting somebody he thinks is suspicious, and then tries to ''hide'' for the previous accusations by saying we should discuss the vig kill first aka trying to avoid suspicions.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
First of all, it''s possibly a vig kill.
So I''d like to use it on a scummy active lurker. Which is why I also proposed Rock as vig target.
But if Stepho flips, we have things to work with, which we won''t have if either Deves or Rock flips.
Anyway, on Stepho:
-Devil sign argument. Pushed this bad argument really hard and even voted you for it. Yet, when the ''Post Restriction'' from Lamont comes, he doesn''t push it.
-Trying to once again discuss the item first and after discussing the lynch, which went wrong yesterday, after a player asked what happened to the Stepho wagon of day 1.
(Which I''m curious about as well.)
Actually never mind. 3 of the 6 voters are absent. Which would leave Setael, Tox and Nyx. Opinions?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Then why did you vote Setael?Pyromaniac wrote:
Lurkers should be pressured, not lynched.ZazieR wrote:Regarding Page (Yes, Page) 57:
Pyro, you called Shadow lurker scum. Now, he''s been replaced, yet you didn''t mention this after the replacement got in. Why''s this?
Also, why did you vote Setael after you realised she didn''t replace Shadow?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
But I have to leave with in a few minutes >.<
I think we should use the vig kill against an active lurker, who appears scummy, and give information to work with. To me, that''s Stepho.
Second choice would be Pablo. And third either Deves or Rock.
I might be able to come online before vig-deadline, but I''m not sure. So this is all I can give regarding that discussion.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Why did everybody ignore my question?
What will we learn if Deves gets vigged? Who wanted to kill/not kill an active lurker? Active lurking is anti-town, but is done by both scum and town.
A Stepho vig-kill gives more information as there was once a bandwagon, and he has had interactions with other players, which Deves lacks.
If players want to use the vig-kill for more information who should become the lynch, Stepho, who''s also a scummy active lurker, is better than Deves.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
WTH?!Setael wrote:2 reasons I'm not getting behind the Stepho wagon:
1- the presence of a counter wagon that might succeed actually makes me feel better about vigging dev. I would expect scum to fight it, so if it was too easy I'd be worried. Elmo we know is town but if dev flips scum zaz, pyro and xtoxm will need to be looked at. I think scum would feel comfortable about this since dev's wagon derails MY wagon so if they're accused they can point to my wagon as a sort of alibi.
2- steph's post that she thinks I'm town at a crucial point. Scum would have had no reason not to weigh in against me at that point and she wouldn't have been suspect when I flipped town. Basically, same reason I changed my mind about Lamont.
Wednesday the 24th:
Stepho has one post after this post of yours. So why the change of heart?@steph: why the decrease in activity? Elmo's right - we've been ignoring you today because you're not here. I still think you & might be scum buddies and I'm not surprised he wouldn't vote you.
And have you actually read my reasons for vig-voting Stepho? So state why it''s better that Deves gets vig-shot.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Two scummy things from Deves:
-Not wanting an item
-Stalling his list of suspicions.
Other than that, a lot of active lurking.
The way Stepho attacked Lamont is much worse, especially due to his response when Lamont was ''faking'' a PR and his response afterwards.
And that he doesn''t want to be the centre of attention during the vig discussion (Elmo asked what happened to his bandwagon of day 1)
What''s actually the case against Deves? That he''s not helpful?
So yeah, I wouldn''t mind seeing the reason of each player who''s vig-voting Deves why he''s their choice.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well youdidforget to mention that he failed to vote D1 & we practically had to drag him kicking and screaming to a vig vote...Anti-town behaviour. This doesn''t make him scum. And if this is so bad, what about Naomi?
And you also conveniently forget to mention how he slef-voted, claimed vanilla and committed atrocious defense abandonment.Since when are the first two scummy? I don''t know what you mean with the third
He definitely deserves the rope...
Rope is lynch, not vig-kill. So state why the vig-kill should be used against Deves, while players want to use the results of the vig-kill for the lynch. Wouldn''t Stepho be a better vig-kill then?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Setael, you said this:
But at the same time, you think that Stepho could be scumbuddies with Deves.2 reasons I'm not getting behind the Stepho wagon:
1- the presence of a counter wagon that might succeed actually makes me feel better about vigging dev. I would expect scum to fight it, so if it was too easy I'd be worried. Elmo we know is town but if dev flips scum zaz, pyro and xtoxm will need to be looked at. I think scum would feel comfortable about this since dev's wagon derails MY wagon so if they're accused they can point to my wagon as a sort of alibi.
2- steph's post that she thinks I'm town at a crucial point. Scum would have had no reason not to weigh in against me at that point and she wouldn't have been suspect when I flipped town. Basically, same reason I changed my mind about Lamont.
So what you''re saying in this quote is basically that those vig-voting Stepho might contain scum that don''t want Deves to get vigged. Combined with that you think Stepho might be a scumbuddy from Deves, you''re thinking that there is possibly scum on the vig-wagon from Stepho-scum in order to not get Deves-scum vigged.
If this is true, how does this make sense?
And if I misunderstood your position, please explain.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Lamont_Cranston wrote:ZazieR wrote:Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well youdidforget to mention that he failed to vote D1 & we practically had to drag him kicking and screaming to a vig vote...Anti-town behaviour. This doesn''t make him scum. And if this is so bad, what about Naomi?Naomi can't be vigged bc amished said he protected her...
My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.
And you also conveniently forget to mention how he slef-voted, claimed vanilla and committed atrocious defense abandonment.Since when are the first two scummy? I don''t know what you mean with the thirdClaiming vanilla is potentially a very scummy thing to do. Scum will hide in vanilla all day long. Self-voting can also be a scum technique to do the same as can defense abandonment but that charge no longer holds against him...
The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.
He definitely deserves the rope...
Rope is lynch, not vig-kill. So state why the vig-kill should be used against Deves, while players want to use the results of the vig-kill for the lynch. Wouldn''t Stepho be a better vig-kill then?I understand your case for Stepho providing alot of info but frankly, there is alot of info to be gained regardless of who we vig... Gosh durn it, Devastation had better post that top 3 scummy list...
Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.[/b]Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Lamont_Cranston wrote:ZazieR wrote:Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well youdidforget to mention that he failed to vote D1 & we practically had to drag him kicking and screaming to a vig vote...Anti-town behaviour. This doesn''t make him scum. And if this is so bad, what about Naomi?Naomi can't be vigged bc amished said he protected her...
My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.
And you also conveniently forget to mention how he slef-voted, claimed vanilla and committed atrocious defense abandonment.Since when are the first two scummy? I don''t know what you mean with the thirdClaiming vanilla is potentially a very scummy thing to do. Scum will hide in vanilla all day long. Self-voting can also be a scum technique to do the same as can defense abandonment but that charge no longer holds against him...
The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.
He definitely deserves the rope...
Rope is lynch, not vig-kill. So state why the vig-kill should be used against Deves, while players want to use the results of the vig-kill for the lynch. Wouldn''t Stepho be a better vig-kill then?I understand your case for Stepho providing alot of info but frankly, there is alot of info to be gained regardless of who we vig... Gosh durn it, Devastation had better post that top 3 scummy list...
Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Well, if there will be one, can we extend it till sunday? I don''t know how long I can be online tomorrow >.<populartajo wrote:I want to extend deadline for tomorrow. One day less for our lynch deadline is not going to make the difference.
I know there has to be vital information in this wagon transference.
And I do really want to make that steph reread.
Vote : vig deadline extension.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Where did Deves say you are still on his list? Because I can''t find it.
Also, the thing is, Elmo called out your wagon. Then you comment that we shouldn''t discuss a lynch yet. But when all the players vote for a lynch, you say nothing. Only when your previous wagon gets pointed out.
When this happened, it seemed that Setael would be vigged. And she, together with The Replacement (and a bit Tox), were the most against you during day 1. However, this was mainly due to her assumed scumpair: you and Deves, who also had a chance of getting shot. So if he''s town, her suspicions could have decreased against you. (This is speculation, and therefore only a thought in my mind which I wanted to say out loud).
Then there is Lamont. You attacked him when Amished said that he might have a PR as scum. You wanted to test this out.
However, later he did show a possible PR. You didn''t believe the reason he gave for this, yet you don''t ask him to not use it. So why was this?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
I can agree with you on that (Though I''m not sure if it''s forced )populartajo wrote:
Sure. I wont have the time to properly read steph until this night.ZazieR wrote:
Well, if there will be one, can we extend it till sunday? I don''t know how long I can be online tomorrow >.<populartajo wrote:I want to extend deadline for tomorrow. One day less for our lynch deadline is not going to make the difference.
I know there has to be vital information in this wagon transference.
And I do really want to make that steph reread.
Vote : vig deadline extension.
Basically I want reasons for this wagon change and why it was done as soon as you brought the Steph subject to the table. Like I said it feels forced and my conspiracy sensors are tingling like crazy. Regardless of Steph alignment, it was pretty unexpected so there must be something there.
But I''ll look at who switched and why after one of Stepho/Deves is vigged.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Lamont_Cranston wrote:My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.
Your point was about the vig-vote too.
No. I said that Deves had done two scummy things, and compared it to what Stepho had done. What you pointed out were things that are all included in anti-town behaviour. Anti-town behaviour isn''t the same as scummy behaviour.
The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.
I don't care if town do it too. That's not my point and a bad reason not to vig/lynch somebody nor is it my entire argument, just things you forgot to point out.
Once again, as said, the first two are included in anti-town behaviour, which isn''t the same as scummy. The third, depends on the context
Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.
Ya and I agree Stepho needs to start talking more because right now he is less valuable than even Deves is.
One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.
If you think he''s town, then why are you vig-voting him???Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
May I ask what your opinion of Naomi would be if Stepho flips scum?Lamont_Cranston wrote:
Because he is heavily lurking and his case needs to be explored. Part of that case revolves around Naomi. We can discuss this now as well. Two competing wagons is very helpful to the town.ZazieR wrote:Lamont_Cranston wrote:My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.
Your point was about the vig-vote too.
No. I said that Deves had done two scummy things, and compared it to what Stepho had done. What you pointed out were things that are all included in anti-town behaviour. Anti-town behaviour isn''t the same as scummy behaviour.
Right but its part of the case which you left out which was my point.
As said, I pointed two things out I saw as scummy from him. I don't think anti-town behaviour is scummy, and therefore, I didn't include these points in my list of scummy things Deves has done.
The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.
I don't care if town do it too. That's not my point and a bad reason not to vig/lynch somebody nor is it my entire argument, just things you forgot to point out.
Once again, as said, the first two are included in anti-town behaviour, which isn''t the same as scummy. The third, depends on the context
Wrong! It is part of the entire picture which needs to be examined.
What is part of the entire picture? All the above points?
Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.
Ya and I agree Stepho needs to start talking more because right now he is less valuable than even Deves is.
One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.
If you think he''s town, then why are you vig-voting him???
One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Setael, still this^^ZazieR wrote:Setael, you said this:
But at the same time, you think that Stepho could be scumbuddies with Deves.2 reasons I'm not getting behind the Stepho wagon:
1- the presence of a counter wagon that might succeed actually makes me feel better about vigging dev. I would expect scum to fight it, so if it was too easy I'd be worried. Elmo we know is town but if dev flips scum zaz, pyro and xtoxm will need to be looked at. I think scum would feel comfortable about this since dev's wagon derails MY wagon so if they're accused they can point to my wagon as a sort of alibi.
2- steph's post that she thinks I'm town at a crucial point. Scum would have had no reason not to weigh in against me at that point and she wouldn't have been suspect when I flipped town. Basically, same reason I changed my mind about Lamont.
So what you''re saying in this quote is basically that those vig-voting Stepho might contain scum that don''t want Deves to get vigged. Combined with that you think Stepho might be a scumbuddy from Deves, you''re thinking that there is possibly scum on the vig-wagon from Stepho-scum in order to not get Deves-scum vigged.
If this is true, how does this make sense?
And if I misunderstood your position, please explain.Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
I didn't respond to anything. I looked back at your reason for vig-voting Deves. It had to do with you being on his scumlist, while Lamont wasn't for reasons that can also be stated for you (The attack against the claim from Naomi). Yet, I can't find where he said that you were on his list. So can you show where he did say so?Stephoscope wrote:
I can't tell what you are responding to here.ZazieR wrote:Where did Deves say you are still on his list? Because I can''t find it.
Can you give a date since when RL got crazy for you?
Again, my personal life has been crazy lately and I haven't had as much time to read and participate as I would like. I apologize, but I've really only managed to respond to posts that are addressed to me. And, by that point, I felt that we really needed to get the vig out of the way. I was not really a candidate for the vig then...it had nothing to do with me saving myself, and everything to do with making an informed lynch, based on the vig results, without rushing.ZazieR wrote:Also, the thing is, Elmo called out your wagon. Then you comment that we shouldn''t discuss a lynch yet. But when all the players vote for a lynch, you say nothing. Only when your previous wagon gets pointed out.
The thought in my mind has gotten even more stronger.
To anyone who still thinks Devestation and I are a scum pair--please let's vig Devestation, I believe he is scum, I want him vigged.ZazieR wrote:When this happened, it seemed that Setael would be vigged. And she, together with The Replacement (and a bit Tox), were the most against you during day 1. However, this was mainly due to her assumed scumpair: you and Deves, who also had a chance of getting shot. So if he''s town, her suspicions could have decreased against you. (This is speculation, and therefore only a thought in my mind which I wanted to say out loud).
Yet, you also thought Lamont was lying. But did nothing to question his 'PR' at that time. Even though you were very positive that he was scum, before Naomi claimed due to an example of scum having to use a PR. I see no reason why you'd not question him about a PR you thought was fake.
Because I did not believe Naomi's claim at the time, and was attacking her instead of worrying about Lamont. You sound accusatory, so I'd appreciate it if you'd explain how this behavior even makes sense if I were scum.ZazieR wrote:Then there is Lamont. You attacked him when Amished said that he might have a PR as scum. You wanted to test this out.
However, later he did show a possible PR. You didn''t believe the reason he gave for this, yet you don''t ask him to not use it. So why was this?
There are some reasons possible:
-Naomi claimed Trilby. If you are scum and she's not, you want the powerrole out of the game.
-Lamont is your buddy. The first attack was used to give the impression that you two aren't scum together(bussing). But due to Naomi, you could drop your attacks, trying to save one of you or Lamont one day extra.
-Nobody was buying your attacks against Lamont, and some saw them as scummy. To not draw unwanted attention, you attack somebody else: Naomi.
Need more?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
I'm interested in the answer to 2 as well.Lamont_Cranston wrote:
1) If Trilby is a safe claim there would be no CCStepho wrote:The lack of a counter claim,plus the comments from Naomi and the mod today, are all in line with an honest townie who just happened to roleclaim really poorly.
2) What does, "plus the comments from Naomi and the mod today" mean?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
Even if she wasn't a candidate, your thought process here could give some info regarding you. So why not give this info?Stephoscope wrote:
Why are you and Devestation so keen on giving *you* the credit for the attack on Naomi's claim that *I* had so much to do with?Lamont_Cranston wrote:
I have clearly explained how Naomi is lying here. It is for you to explain what this "new info" is that suddenly brought you to change your mind.Stephoscope wrote:I am now almost positive that Naomi's claim is legitimate. Anyone who wants to say I'm scummy for *changing my mind based on analysis of information that is available* had better be able to explain.
I already said that I changed my mind and determined that Naomi's statements were more in line with an inexperienced townie than with scum. I don't feel any need to waste more time explaining my thoughts on Naomi, given that she is apparently not a candidate for vig or lynch. If you're going to act like I'm scummy, you'd better explain how my actions are in line with what scum might do.
Also, last VC, she had votes. So:
Mod- could we get a VC?Ignore the ''R''-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD
-
-
ZazieR Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 7567
- Joined: August 15, 2008
- Location: Lurking around MishMash and GD