The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Elmo]

OMG, HI SETAEL~!

hiallwhosscum?

[Elmo]

[quote="Pyromaniac"Naomi.[/quote]YAUS, SUCCESS, YOU WINS THE PRIZE!!!

Whoa whoa whoa, Naomi's claim is really weird. She says she's NK immune and when asked outright if that's all she says yes:

{..}

So then Naomi says to Amished "So you're saying you expected a cop like role as well?" and then POOF! magically she has a cop like role as well and says she's Bulletproof/1-shot cop.

Lulz. I see she hasn't used it night 1. Have we established who she's fakeclaiming a result on tomorrow?

The votes are piling on me because supposedly I'm trying to get Amished killed

Pablo, Lamont, Pyro: Is this accurate?

Pablo-3.5 (Amished, Setael, Xtoxm, Tajo)

Quite a wagon. Roughly, why?

Can someone spell out this vig business? I see the shotgun shell, I see Lamont snapping it up, I see the ARRRGH!, then Lamont claims someone visited him, then actually no he lied, the shell is fine and he has a dayvig(?). Alongside this, Nyx has a shotgun which and Amished claims.. sorta-doc that can protect multiple people!? That's a new one. So: what does the shell do? Shotgun?

[Elmo]

Okay; I approve, but I haven't chewed through the game yet, so may I be excused for a short while? I think everyone else should, though.

[Elmo]

I think you're probably right about Naomi.

[Elmo]

hi

Real life got rocky, I'll have the game read in the next ~12 hours or so. Until then,

vig: Devastation

for the sake of voting someone. I could go for Sironi.

[Elmo]

Also, we seem to have a lot of people with only 1-2 votes on them, it may call for some kind of instant-runoff voting if we can't get decent wagons moving.

[Elmo]

I want to say this before I forget it. The liquid hohum drank is listed as "Chzo's Blood". Based on what little I know / can scrounge together of the flavour, it seems a decent assumption that the bad guys are pro-Chzo. It follows that, if a decanter of his blood was around here, they probably had something to do with it. Okay. All this leads up to:

tl;dr - do you think the bad guys knew what the decanter did? And subsequently, would avoid drinking from it?

[Elmo]

Hmm. Also - what effect would it have on a bad guy? Is there anyone here familiar with the flavour? I've only played 5 days a stranger, and that was a while ago.

[Elmo]

We all agree the claim was horrible but besides it being formulated badly I can't see anything scummy in it. Plus the fact that the claim is a very important role in the lore and no one counter claimed.

Bearing in mind the section of Setael's post that I quoted, why do you come down on the side of just "formulated badly" instead of the claim changing to suit the enquiries? She seemed to answer Amished very clearly.

The claim is "important in the lore" precisely because Trillby is the main character and therefore the most obvious fakeclaim possible, which pound-for-pound makes it more likely to be fake. The lack of counter-claim doesn't mean anything; I would be surprised if Trillby was in the game at all, and on the off-chance they were it'd be silly to counterclaim.

Nyx, that view of Naomi's claim seems a bit slanted to me. Can you walk me through how you got there?

@Lamont: A runoff would provide an easy solution to the "lots of small wagons" thing. Although it would make your life harder maintaining the count. I think we should have vigged someone by about halfway through the day, which is... today. Oh. Hm. You really need to vig vote, people!

[Elmo]

On a basic level, Trillby can't be NK-immune for "he must survive" flavour reasons because then he would also have to be lynch-immune, otherwise we might lynch him which would similarly break the flavour.

[Elmo]

Also, someone just have me prodded once all this vig nonsense is over with.

Guy. If we shoot town 'cuz you just sat on your ass, will you be a happy Rockata?

[Elmo]

I remember being assured that we actually had a dayvig. Is there some uncertainty?

[Elmo]

Rockata: What do you think of the discussion that springs from talking about who should get shot? In the abstract, as well as actuality?

[Elmo]

Tajo <3

Also, we really should have vigged someone by now. I suggest most votes kills + {dice} tiebreaker with a deadline for Thursday.

[Elmo]

Unofficial Vote Count

(Lynching)
Lamont_Cranston (3) <- Naomi_Saotome, Rockatansky, Setael
Naomi_Saotome (3) <- Lamont_Cranston, Pyromaniac, Elmo
Stephoscope (2) <- Sironigous, zwetschenwasser
Pablo Molinero <- populartajo
Setael <- Amished
Pyromaniac <- Pablo Molinero
Populartajo <- Xtoxm

Not voting: Nyx, dramonic, Stephoscope, Devestation, Alabaska J.
With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch. Deadline in 15 days.

It's 9 to lynch and I don't see suspects with widespread support yet; this game needs more shameless bandwagoning. If we have another no lynch, I will murder you all.

unvote, vote Naomi_Saotome

- anyone who can't live with a Naomi deadline lynch had better speak up; Stephoscope is #2 on my arbitrary list.

Naomi, why haven't you used your investigation yet?

I think Lamont is town and I really don't see anything to this Setael case; Amished's claim is bizarre, but I don't currently see what else is going to account for my added life expectancy (n.b. do not counterclaim at this time). And I think given we don't know much about what his role does, it's a stretch to say for sure it'd be imbalanced in, y'know, a bastard-mod game. But I can understand someone would think that, because, well, a doc who can target multiple people and self-protect? That's pretty out there. (shrug)

Why has Stepho dropped off everyone's radar after getting wagoned nicely D1?

[Elmo]

Let's answer that later.

No, let's think about that now. From my skim, that looked like a quality wagon.

let's discuss why in the world you want to make a decision about lynching when we don't even know what the vig will reveal.

Because we only have the time from the dayvig to the end of the day to react. That might end up being very short, so it behoves us to start thinking about the lynch now. Votes can be moved, but wagons are hard to form in a short time, and decent wagons doubly so.

With 9 to lynch, the point is inertia.

[Elmo]

Amished, do you have any other info/insights about the trilby clone? Any chance naomi is that clone?

There is a trilby clone?

Yeah, this threw me.

@Pyro: I'm Jonathon Somerset AKA the Gatekeeper. {...} This basically means that in the game, I arranged for a Trilby clone (debatable on whether it was the real one or not) to be taken by Chzo to save the rest of the world by keeping the God of Pain (Chzo) in the spiritual world (what happened in the last game).

My conclusion is that basing stuff on flavour is just gonna give people headaches.

I want to hear what people think about Naomi, especially from people who are mysteriously remaining silent about the inconsistency in her claim.

[Elmo]

Pyro: I thought 1698 was goodposting, actually. Curious to see what Xtoxm says.

[Elmo]

There is a trilby clone?

Yeah,

this threw me.

Fixed; sorry, I mean, that idea threw me, there may or may not be a clone in the game. We don't know.

Pyro: I too would look forward to more TajoPost, but my perception would be that posts like 1702 makes that less likely to happen. Just saying.

[Elmo]

Pyro, unless I'm mistaken, what she said was roughly "a doc that can self-protect and protect multiple people? That sounds brokenly imbalanced if the mafia can't roleblock it!" which seems a pretty understandable reaction to me. And she's been clear about it being a theory and definitely not a reason to kill Amished today; it's not like she was pushing an Amished lynch for speculative reasons. So I don't really get what you're suspicious of, there.

[Elmo]

We got a dayvig, we're voting on who to shoot.

[Elmo]

Devastation.

Start talking.

[Elmo]

I dislike Stepho independently and currently think killing Stepho > Devestation > Setael.

[Elmo]

Lamont. Would you accept a

vig: Stephoscope, Devestation

? That is, I'm voting Stepho, if Steph isn't killed at the deadline, switch my vote to Deve.

[Elmo]

What Xtoxm said, basically. This is contingent on him (Dev) being helpful in the future.

Also, Pablo, Nyx, get on a main wagon. Zwets business with Tajo seemed townish, and I don't think he'll get enough support in any case.

[Elmo]

I think it's intriguing. Eight hours 'till tentative deadline, anyway.

[Elmo]

Lamont: To be honest, I'm too tired to look back at Dev's play now so I've only got the fuzzy impression that he wasn't contributing much, but I can hope that if he's town, he'll contribute more in the future. At minimum, being this close to a dayvig should serve as motivation.

I don't mind adjusting the deadline, but I would point out we haven't talked much about who to lynch and Day 2 ends in 13 days.

[Elmo]

Pablo is voting Dev.

[Elmo]

Think the Innocent speculation should stop until we get a claimed power role in here, otherwise maybe we're yelling who's not a power role. OTOH Amised is AWOL and I think Naomi's hardly going to say the guy claiming an innocent on her is scum. Eh, this can be cleared up at a later date.

I figured Innocent was an alignment rather than a role. Not willing to base anything on assuming the opposite of that.

Rolecop is weird, but whatever, this game's power-roles are clearly weird.

unvig, vig Devestation

[Elmo]

-Sorry, but the role is called Innocent. Nowhere is there stated any allignment in the role PM. And the rules says ''Innocents''.

Rules

3. Innocents win if they destroy all Evil players. The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

That looks very much like an alignment to me.

[Elmo]

We are getting really freaking close to modkill territory. Be

careful

, aright?

There is a long argument as to why Innocent is probably an alignment but I'm too tired right now. But Innocent = Role logically implies there aren't any power roles, which would mean Amished was lying, which means no-one has an ability which leaves a question mark as to what extended hohum's life.

[Elmo]

I think I can almost hear Yakety Sax playing. I shouldn't be this amused, but I am. I love how Nyx even explicitly said "load 12 bore shotgun shell in 8 bore shotgun". Okay.

unvote

Unofficial Vote Count

Devestation (4) <- Pyromaniac, Lamont_Cranston, Pablo Molinero, Naomi_Saotome
Populartajo (2) <- Xtoxm, zwetschenwasser
Lamont_Cranston <- Rockatansky
Stephoscope <- Sironigous
Setael <- Amished

Not voting: dramonic, Stephoscope, Devestation, ZazieR, Setael, populartajo, Elmo
With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch. Deadline in ~7 days.

[Elmo]

Ooh, shiney!

vote dramonic

[Elmo]

I would happily go for a lurker lynch right now. This is one of the reasons I am not despondent over Nyx dying. I would actually go for wagoning whoever's made the least content posts per unit time so far.

[Elmo]

Actually, I guess it's possible that "Innocent" is both an alignment and a role, and non-vanilla reveals would have an annexation.

Yeah. Townie is a role that implies an alignment. Another game might be "X dies, she was a townie" & "X dies, she was a town roleblocker". I am guessing here we have "X dies, she was an innocent" & "X dies, she was an innocent roleblocker".

Elmo

, if possible, could you a full role PM claim?

I really don't know what this entails or how I can usefully do this without being modkilled. I will say that I find this

I wish to find anyone who would do harm to me "and fellow Innocents".

very interesting, on reflection.

Elmo, what's your opinion on Devestation's roleclaim?

It appears legit, from what I can briefly see.

Maybe today a watermelon will drop and we can spend the next three weeks arguing over who gets to eat it

So go make a lynch happen instead of making these posts.

Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

I endorse this.

I want to add more but I've been stalling posting this for ages, so there we go.

[Elmo]

Not editing your posts before posting even when you've seen that the mod has contradicted you since you wrote part of it is tech.

[Elmo]

I sometimes neglect to actually submit posts for a long time for various reasons. I wrote the post, then did something, then read the thread, did something else, then came back and hit submit without thinking. D'oh.

The idea of a cult has occurred to me and may well be workable. Probably disregarding that for now unless it becomes important or we have some particular indication of one.

I'm pretty frazzled, but I'm wondering about the mod implying there might be Good factions in the game in addition to Evil factions. I would be real interested in hearing from Amished, but 'course we can't do that.

Like I said, I'm frazzled, but I don't really see how Stepho is obvscum although that may well simply be me missing it at this point. Please understand that Innocent being a role does not mean it is not also an alignment, and that if Innocent is

not

an alignment we have no power roles and e.g. Amished should be next in line for the chop. And that doesn't sound right to me, quite possibly the majority of the claims are scum but I seriously doubt all of them are. I know I'll kick myself if Stepho is scum (and this Innocent business has zero capability to clear him) but I'm not 100% putting my vote there right now.

Here is a count-down, anyway, we've only got about 4 days, 10 hours if I did it right. I am no shit probably voting the worst living lurker sometime tomorrow; we need to wagonwagonwagon, please.

[Elmo]

Also, @Zazie: I am an Innocent, and appear to be what could be called a vanilla townie in other circumstances. I don't know how much more I can specifically say without falling foul of PM quoting, but it's fair to say I recognise certain things that have been posted here.

[Elmo]

o_O Interesting.

Anyway, I (personally) don't think Stepho is being caught fakeclaiming here. I actually don't think he would be. On that basis, I dislike a Stepho lynch today.

I am good with killing almost anyone who hasn't been notably vocal today. Hint, hint.

[Elmo]

unvote, vote Rockatansky

anyway.

[Elmo]

I am Janine. I am an investigative reporter, and am Innocent.

is what he said. He did not say "I am an Innocent" which I agree would = diescumdie. My point is a role PM that says "you are an Innocent" explicitly says your role (Innocent) and implies your alignment (Innocent-aligned). A non-vanilla role PM would have to give a role and alignment, which would look like "you are a reporter and are Innocent" or something.

It's entirely possible he's fakeclaiming, but there isn't any proof of that, as far as I can see. I would be liable to take a Stepho lynch over a no lynch just for sanity's sake, though.

Can everyone please get on the stepho or rock wagon.

Also, that, I guess.

[Elmo]

Okay. Why would an investigative reporter be Good rather than Innocent?

[Elmo]

Because Innocent-the-role = Vanilla Townie, yes, but he

didn't claim

to be Innocent-the-role. He said "I am a reporter and I am Innocent". To me, that is clearly intended to claim role (reporter) and alignment (Innocent). At minimum, in context, he is clearly not claiming Innocent as a role.

Rules
2b. During the night,

Good and Evil specials

have 3 days in real-time to PM me with their actions and targets, or simply to confirm that they are not using their ability.

Note that it says "Good & Evil specials". That implies there are Good players who are not special, i.e. do not have an ability.
The rules say "Innocents win if they destroy all Evil players". I would think Good players share that win condition. So I am pretty sure Innocent players and Good players are aligned together. I would currently say Innocents are Good-aligned; that is, Good = Town and Innocent = Townie.

So basically I don't see why a Good power role would be told "you are Good" as opposed to "you are Innocent".

[Elmo]

To clarify - in this game, an Innocent is someone entirely uninvolved in the struggle between any Good faction/s and any Evil faction/s, and should be considered the equivalent of a Vanillager.

Okay, no, that is contradicted by this. That would imply that Innocents are not a Good faction, but everything strongly implies that we both want to kill off Evil faction(s). Maybe Good factions need to accomplish further goals or something.

Okay. Uh. Yeah. I

think

Steph has to be lying? This is confusing. :\

[Elmo]

My PM about Naomi's role uses the term "pro-town"

What the hell!?

[Elmo]

Okay. Yes. Innocents are not Good or Evil, as per KoC's 2370, and all Innocents are in the same faction. Therefore, Innocents belong to a faction that is not Good and not Evil, which I will call Innocent-faction.

Okay, Stepho claimed to be Innocent.
If he meant Innocent-Role then he's clearly lying.
If he meant "I am part of Innocent-faction", then he's also lying, since he claimed a power role and as per rule 2b, only Good and Evil factions have power roles.

unvote, vote Stephoscope

Lamont: I mean, there has been no reference to a "town" of any kind all game. In fact the mod has specifically avoided it to keep to the flavour. I think it's far more likely he's lying about being told someone is "pro-town".

[Elmo]

Pretty sure Good are opposed to Evil.
Innocents win when they kill all Evil players.
It is possible that some Good factions do not require all Evil players dead to win (it would be a break from tradition although it's not unheard of, e.g. Vengeful) and equally they may have additional goals they need to complete to win.

So our interests are clearly aligned, albeit maybe they're not identical. I am pretty happy just assuming we're working together unless something appears to contradict that.

[Elmo]

I'm going out to eat some pizza and try and get laid.

Preferably aiming for both at the same time.

Unofficial Vote Count

Stephoscope: 6 - Xtoxm, Pyromanic, populartajo, Elmo, ZazieR, Devestation
Rockatansky: 2 - dramonic, Lamont_Cranston
Devestation: 2 - Naomi_Saotome,

zwetschenwasser

Dramonic: 2 - Setael, Amished
Lamont_Cranston: 1 - Rockatansky

Not voting: Sironigous, Stephoscope, Pablo Molinero. With 16 alive, it's 9 to lynch. Italics are V/LA. It's ironic because I typed this before Lamont posted.

It is very clear from my PM that I am a pro-town role.

How was it very clear? Did literally say "pro-town"?

[Elmo]

What are you talking about? Pablo? He's an Innocent, as in vanilla...if he's not, lynch me.

You would be happy being lynched if he were a power role?

I need to draw up a list of people I don't want to kill. Blargh.

[Elmo]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I was going to put together a care package but life has been pissing all over me recently. I support hohum replacing in now, in any case; I might get round to it but I wouldn't bet on it.

Good luck y'all!

[Elmo]

I don't have notification of anything. I don't know what that means. (shrug)