Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

[Kise]

Same here.. Except I don't have a job.

But I'm just posting this for activity. Expect a more thorough post within an hour when I've read up on things.

[Kise]

OK... more like 5 hours...

@mod, I suggest you tell everyone the game has actually started.

I only just found it.
Reading now...

Suggestion noted. No, thanks.

My first thought is: "Holy shit, you guys just started yesterday and already 11 pages?! Mastin must be behind this."
My second thought is: "I like Gelus' first rule... I notice he has to edit a lot of ZEE's post."
My third thought is: "Yup, Mastin... Oh shit! He's trying to hand his death note to a scum player within the lynch mob! NOOOO!"

All this talk of, "He needs to be vig-killed so the death note is destroyed," doesn't sit well with me.. You guys do know there are also anti-town here? All of you could target Mastin at night and the DN will more than likely fall in the hands of an SK. Our best bet would have been for Mastin not to claim Shinigami at all, because now we're gonna have a new Kira either way... I think... or maybe the Killers are automatically given a death note(?).

From what I gathered reading the rules, if a killer takes a death note, they somehow buddy up with the Shinigami[?] Or do the multiple Shinigami in this game have their own separate mini-game where they are in a "race" to lose their death notes first[?]

(Just so you guys know, I use the [?] "tags" as a way to express my inner thoughts. It's not as if I really ask any of you to reply to it. Nothing more than reflections.)

And wouldn't Mastin be mod-killed if he was telling the truth about being Shinigami?

(Now THAT is an actual question I pose to everyone.)

LMAO @ Posts 76 & 77. If it weren't for the fact that they were less than a minute apart, I would think Mastin was being an asshole and ignored magnus' request on purpose. But seriously, Mastin, you don't need to comment on EVERYTHING someone says. Especially whenever you're not answering a concern or adding anything relevant.. It makes me feel impulsed to skim through what you post & ignore the quotes.

I get the feeling that magnus or Mastin will continue this little squabble over quote-links, quote-pyramids, etc...

Lol @ "You seem to be craving the noose more than David Carradine." I would never have expected Carradine's name to appear on MS. Ok, at this point, I feel the need to contribute something more beneficial. I could commentate on what I've read so far from up to page 5, but that'd be boring.

The way Mastin is claiming Shinigami and STILL being alive makes it blatant that he has not broken any rules, so I may be gullible by giving him a chance to still claim Shinigami. He's claimed to have been a lot of various PRs & anti-town roles.. Yet hasn't been MK'd. So you have to wonder whether any of his claims ring true if he's still able to play. I believe this is why Kai said that Mastin is obvtown. It's rather cheap, and could suck the fun out of the game if all of us did the same exact thing.. And honestly Mastin, this is the exact reason you get NK'd a lot -- You go so far to confirm your towniness. It would be a good idea for mod's to never make you mafia, since you're always in the hotseat D1 it seems, lol. HOWEVER, because scum believe you are an easy D1 lynch, I've started to keep my eye on who's jumping on your wagon and try to make sense of their reason for voting you (if possible). They are likely the best candidates when it comes to making a suspect/scum list.

I might be looking at Mastin's approach from the wrong angle.. He could very well be a Shinigami who "doesn't care for humans." In which case, I say it's a good idea for "certain" people to lynch him in order for his plan to go through (a plan I presume, anyway).

I can tell you guys right now that Lamont is a boy scout. It won't help much to tell whether he's town or scum, but being the trooper that he is, he felt the need to show the mod a possible breaking of the rules. I may have only played 1 game/day phase with Lamont, but I've read enough of his post to know that he's not going to let a violation pass by. He pays attention to detail quite often -- Sometimes he'll look too hard into things, but, like I said, it doesn't surprise me that he'd point out a MK'able offense.

BUT.. besides this whole 'wanting to get Mastin MK'd' situation, I can't vouche him for anything else he has done/said that has come across as scummy.

It sure doesn't take ZazieR long to dig in someone's ass.. Good to see ya, sister. A lot of familiar faces in this game altogether. But I digress..

What motivation would scum have to kill an unkillable player to remove a potential Death Note? Getting rid of all the Death Notes is the town win condition and I don’t know why scum would help us with the town win condition. If a player claims Shinigami, we should lynch them as that is the only way town can be sure to get rid of the potential Death Note

It's up to Gelus who he picks to hold the death note. A townie could hold/destroy it, or an anti-town player could hold it and become Kira. I don't like leaving things up to chance. Leading a lynch on a supposed Shinigami will only lure in the killers to get a chance at holding a Death Note. On the same token, it sucks that probability has to decide whether a vig or a killer win the death note if both parties target the supposed Shinigami. In short, I am saying that if Mastin WAS genuine on his claim as Shinigami, then that would only result in a new Kira by the time D2 rolled around.

[Kise]

My first thought is: "Holy shit, you guys just started yesterday and already 11 pages?! Mastin must be behind this."

Anyone notice that I typed this when there WAS only 11 pages? Lol.

[Kise]

* You may not use cryptoclaims, hypoclaims, prearranged ciphers, or any other concerted attempt to break the game.

Although it's not said whether you can be God-killed for committing "blasphemy," I'd assume that if Mastin was telling the truth about being Shinigami, mafia, mason, tracker, cop & all that other crap, he'd have been MK'd. If I am wrong, then please thoroughly explain how you know what Gelus would do.

Votecount
Lamont_Cranston - 5 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion, ortolan,

Mastin

, Starbuck)

Mastin

- 4 (Lamont_Cranston, benmage, PhilyEc, zwetschenwasser)
magnus_orion - 3 (mykonian, Seraphim, ZEEnon)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

semioldguy

)
benmage - 1 (Kmd4390)
ZEEnon - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Not voting:

cateraction

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage, Kise, Stephoscope, Spolium, WeyounsLastClone

Have you ever spoken a word of truth since you were born?

With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

[Kise]

Same thing[?]

o_O

[Kise]

I agree with WLC about ABR. It wasn't much to read, and you'd think that if he did take the time out to evaluate everything that was said up until his 1st post, he'd at least be willing to share his thoughts and pursue a case. The Jester thing? No freaking way.. I'd think Shinigami are as close to 3rd Party as we'll get.. I could have sworn ABR was a more consistent poster than this, based on what I've read from him in other games (BTW, I laughed my ass the fook off when he had that fight with zwet in the WoT game. It's worth checking out).

Oh snapz... Mastin gets MK'd for going around the rules for real. Kai' knew what he was talking about when he said Mastin was obv-town, but we must start over. Yes, people, it WAS a MK. Check out the mod-edits at the top of every page; Mastin's name is in green during the vote count because Gelus is signifying that he

has

HAD Mastin under review. No day-vig-kills here. Otherwise, we'd have entered night phase, yeah? Now, let's move on.

Hmm.. I click on Page 16 and see I have 3 votes on me. I scroll down real quick, only to see that SB is bandwagoning yet again. Why does she wait until someone else makes a case before she thinks for herself?

Lamont, are you freaking out because I'm considering you as someone to keep an eye on? It was very opportunistic of you to try and cover your ass before I came online to comment on everything that's happened between my last post & now. Matter fact... weren't you the main reason for my mislynch in our last game? Obviously my advice is not sinking in with you: You are NOT perfect when it comes to scumhunting. You are an instigator; A heckler, at best. You thought you found Mastin out as scum, but look(!), his name is green.. And your case against me is that I knew for sure that Mastin was town? Well, yeah, he tried to loophole his way into proving himself as a townie by claiming a bunch of roles. He wasn't MK'd up until that point, so it was evident to me that if he's not shinigami, cop, scum, tracker, doctor, mason, etc., then he was townie. That's my reason for believing Mastin as pro-town. Do NOT try to twist my words up and fool people into believing I said something else, as I find lies & propaganda to be a scum tactic and I honestly don't see you as scum at the moment. Just like in our last game.. I said you were a good-natured townie who looks too damn hard at what other's say. You mislynched me, then got NK'd and flipped town. So, I was right in assuming you were a town player. But I'm quite disgusted with how quickly you're trying to make a case against me based on my belief as Mastin being (obv)town.

[Kise]

Don't bold the word lynching... because I did not say to lynch those on Mastin's wagon. I said they would be the best candidates for people to keep your eyes on, I.E. watching them throughout the game to see if they say any scumtells, etc. It should be a no-brainer that you don't lynch people right away without having enough evidence to use against them.

Sounds familiar... OOH, isn't that what you're doing now???

You're wanting to lynch me based on my scumhunting technique, and NOT based on any scummy behaviour/motives.

Confirmed Asshole: Lamont_Cranston

You ad hom a lot, so it shouldn't hurt when the tables turn.

And for the last fucking time.. I put my trust in Mastin because IF he was mafia or Shinigami, he would have been modkilled for claiming those roles.

Stop saying that you KNOW I put my trust in Mastin based off a false reason of "I'm scum who knows everyone else, including Mastin, is town."

I put my trust in Mastin because IF he was mafia or Shinigami, he would have been modkilled for claiming those roles.

Get it through your thick skull and don't let it pass through that empty cranium of yours... The above quote IS the ONLY reason I agreed that Mastin was definitely a townie.

Tell me something, Lamont: If your scumhunting methods are so perfect, then how come we find out that Mastin, your previous suspect, was in fact townie? To me, this implies you have a few cracks in your SH'ing technique. Get off the computer for a second to refocus your eyes; they have failed you TWICE now this week.

[Kise]

Kise, I don't understand why you are so sure that the green meant "review" and not "town". Elaborate please. You even later point out to Lamont that "his name's green" to signify alignment.

Ahh, OK. So then you're saying that Gelus updated every page's vote count by making Mastin's name green AFTER Mastin was killed & confirmed as town? Thanks, it makes sense.

[Kise]

I checked out the earlier pages (Pages 2 & 3) and Mastin's name is green there as well. So I'm thinking that Gelus will update every page to show which players are dead/confirmed townies & mafia, and also display who they voted for.

[Kise]

My sig will do the talking for me, just in case you feel the need to

reiterate

lie again by calling me scum who knew Mastin wasn't mafia. For what it's worth, I also knew he wasn't a Shinigami. Or a tracker. Or a cop. Or a mason. But next time, I'll keep my techniques to myself, since people get butthurt when I say they're worthy of IGMOY-type posts.[/sarcasm?]

Mastin may have been seen as a terrible player, but on the same page, I'm still in a game with a terrible scumhunter.. Just saying..

And he wasn't terrible enough to the point where he neared the 14 vote threshold. If I remember correctly, there were two wagons rivaling each other with 5 votes a piece. Hai?

[Kise]

Even though I don't mention a name? FFS, now I gotta repeat myself when talking to L_C

[Kise]

So, if I want to claim scum, mod can't force me not to do that: as it would break the game. You are absolutely out of your mind if you think a claim would make a modkill necessary.

Rules are there for a reason. The rules in this game state that you are not permitted to make any kind of RC, NC, or hints that would blatantly confirm your position. But I guess it's not too blatant if only Kai(?) and myself picked up on it. Either way, I'm not changing the reason why I believed Mastin to be pro-town, because it's the only reason.

Just because you claimed cop in another game and got away with it does not mean that the same prohibitions applied in that game. It's common to be allowed to RC in most games, but HERE, in Death Note Mafia, the rules say not to do anything that will break the game.

Yes, I do find it reasonable that any form of a claim in THIS game SHOULD warrant some kind of punishment.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Lamont_Cranston, mykonian, Starbuck)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, magnus_orion, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

I've made another friend.

Yay, Light's friends are Misa's friends. Let's all get along!

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Kise]

Nah, here's the rule that states you are not permitted to do most forms of claiming. Gelus pretty much does not want you to say what you are, NOR what you aren't in this game.

Rules and Information

• You may not use cryptoclaims, hypoclaims, prearranged ciphers, or any other concerted attempt to break the game.

Here's an article that can further explain what some of this means:
Crytoclaims[/url]

[Kise]

"Any other concerted attempt to the break the game" <-- Meaning don't try to loophole your way into RC'ing.

[Kise]

Kise's posts show a familiarity with mastin's playstyle.

Something in the back of my mind tells me I should be offended.

I would ask Gelus, but he gets pestered with a lot of mod-specific questions and I'd like to avoid rule #1 (Don't piss him off).

Mod: Are we allowed to roleclaim flat-out, whether we tell the truth or lie about the role?

Yes, so long as it is not a "concerted attempt to break the game."

[Kise]

First explain how we're similar in play-style.

[Kise]

If you're saying my posts are annoying.. then yeah, I'm still offended.

[Kise]

@Zaz - I don't want to rally the sheep at all. I'm not looking to start a lynchwagon on any of Mastin's voters. What I said I would do is keep my eye on them. I've played with Mastin before, so yes, I know how any scum players familiar with Mastin as well would try to use his unorthodox style against him and lead to his lynch. And I have also played another game with Lamont, and he was a bit of a tunneler there. Again (to all) I NEVER said we should lynch those who voted against Mastin. What I said was -- because I know how easy it would be for scum to lynch Mastin -- that I PERSONALLY would keep my eyes on Mastin's wagon to weed out which ones (if any) were scum. And yes, I made a personal attack on Lamont. He did quite a few himself early on in the game to others, so blame karma. And the reason I did not want to ask if we were allowed to make RC/NM/MM/etc. before Mastin died is because I thought I knew the "no concerted attempts to break the game" rule pretty well... I didn't...

(I've only read up to Page 22. I'll post more later tonight on the remaining pages.)

[Kise]

@Mastin: Nice to see you ol' chap.

Lol... He dead

[Kise]

Um...so you do know what the green means now? This whole paragraph is a bit scummy really.

@ Kise 433 how come he suddenly became scum?

I type my posts in notepad as I read through every page. While he was still alive & while I was reading/catching up, Mastin's name was green in the vote counts, and I initially thought it meant that he was under mod-review because I assumed that any lynch/kill would have ended the day phase. But as I kept reading further into the thread, I noticed Mastin had been killed and his name was green to confirm his town alignment. I'm not sure whether I used post-preview, but I obviously did not go back to correct myself when I claimed that Mastin's name was green due to possible mod-review (or did I say everything in separate posts, orto?).

Back and forth between mo and Kise here may be contrived

Purely speculation on your part, although I admire how you scumhunt by leaving no stone unturned. Good observation, but are you implying that Magnus & myself somehow planned to have that little convo? Even if we were partners, there's no way we could communicate during the day (1) phase. I suppose it's not important/relevant for you to answer, since I don't have a reason to make a case against you (this is my way of saying you come across as pro-town), but feel free to address this question if you want.

ok here is my problem with Kise. He seems to think Lammont is town, even though he was the big supporter of vigging Mastin. I hate this Kise-Lammont relationship and I think Im into something here.

For now,

Vote: Kise.

until he explains why he thinks Lammont is town and not scum pushing against Mastin that was obvtown to him.[/b]

It's not hard to believe that two players are pro-town, even if they don't think each other are pro-town. I'm not the first person who believes/believed both Mastin & L_C to be town players. I had a townie-viewpoint with Mastin. However, L_C did NOT share my feelings about Mastin. Also, the same goes for Mastin as he did not view L_C as town the same way I did. It was basically me on the outside looking in, watching those two engage in a heated disposition. The way they were arguing looked to me like, "I think you're scum because you think I'm scum." It was a very primitive feud that only served to keep the door open for everyone else to sit back & say, "Oh, those two are in a pretty serious debate, so one of them HAS to be scum." I did not view that situation identically like some others (the ones who voted for L_C & Mastin) did, because, as I said earlier, I felt like it was a Town vs. Town argument. populartajo, why do you think that I should have automatically found L_C as scum just because I thought Mastin was obv-town?

Stephoscope -> I get an overal townie feeling of Steph. "I am getting the vibe of a bunch of townies all accusing one another" feels townie.

So it's okay for Steph to believe that both Mastin & L_C were townies, but I get your vote when I say I think the two of them are town? That's inconsistent to vouch for Steph as town based on a similar feeling that I as well had, yet I am suspicious to you. Help me understand how you ended up doing this; Did you not realize I felt the same as Steph at the time you made this post?

a)What do you think of Lammont?

b)Why do you think he is town failing at scumhunting rather than scum pushing a case against you?

a) Isn't it clear by now? I still consider his alignment to lean more towards pro-town than the anti-town simply based on his motives/reasons for pursuing lynches on players. He seems like he'll vote someone when he has a genuine concern that they act scummy... I still, however, think his scumhunting has a few cracks in it.

b) 50% meta based on our other, ongoing game. The other 50% is thanks to how he's playing in this game, which subsequently compliments his behavior from our other game, where he is confirmed townie. He's playing the same in both games, and if he was town in our last game while acting like this, I think it's likely that it could be the same case in this game. BUT, that does not mean that I would STILL think he's town if he made a scumslip.. I'm not naive, after all.

(I'm finished with page 24. I'll comment more within the hour when I get to the last page.)

[Kise]

Fos: Benmage & Seraphim

Post more substantially next time. You guys could say SOMETHING rather than not a whole lot.. Don't let everyone else get in on the action while you stay in the shadows. The playful commentary does not pack enough substance. Please add more than quips, unless you want my entire hand to suspect you next. Be afraid... Be very afraid.

Holy shit, this game grows pages like dandelions grow in my backyard. Erm, more content later.

You guys are making it very difficult to catch up to this game.

Two back-to-back posts of similar minimalism.. What's taking you so long to comment on something... ANYthing?

@mykonian - I think your initial vote against me was opportunistic, but there's no telling if it was a scum move or a bandwagoning-townie. You later got riled up because Spolium wants clarification from Budja regarding how it's foolish of a Shinigami to expose himself to everyone. Later, you say pop's post are weak because he has a smaller quantity of posts.. That is a very trivial reason to shoot down the credibility of a player's (pop) commentary. I'm sincerely willing to pardon your play based on mere inexperience of some sort; whether that be a short history of playing mafia, a psychological reason, etc. It is very hard to tell if your motives are driven by a scum-mindset or not.

Regarding Post 556 through 615/infinite --->
I personally (again, PERSONALLY) do not think it would be foolish of a Shinigami w/ a Death Note to claim because they are of neutral alignment and do not care for any others. Plus, the rules say that Shinigami cannot be lynched or killed. *hopes he finally understands the rules* Add to that their neutral alignment, and it seems like their only purpose for being in this game is to sit back and observe the "mayhem" while also helping the Kiras to kill off the other players.

In closing, myk, I think perhaps you are looking at things the wrong way. Or, better yet, from the wrong angle.. It seems intentional whenever you try to make something out of nothing -- blowing things out of proportion. But, as previously said, I have not come to the conclusion whether this is scummy behavior, or a townie with intermediate experience at best.

OH SNAP MASTIN GOT ROCKED!!

Glad he was town, that's what I was feeling and I think validates his cases to an extent. At least throws suspicions on everyone on his case (lamont, Ben, zwet, wey)

See that, people? It is NORMAL to keep your eyes on those who were on a pro-town player's wagon and inspect their motives behind voting/pursuing a lynch.

I'd also like to throw out (to see what people think) the possibility of a mass flavor-claim.

I want to say GTFO.. but first let me ask what do you really think will be achieved by us doing this?

Kmd and ZEEnon: If zwet is lying, what do you think his alignment is?

May I ask what do you think his alignment is? Myself, I would believe that he's either scum trying to find a way to appear pro-town, or he's a Shinigami that is baiting everyone into lynching him so his Death Note can be made useful IF Kira were to obtain it from him.

[Kise]

You are ruling out the possibility of scum day-talking? Also why is the fact this is day one rather than any other day relevant to whether you might be able to daytalk as scum? Also why do you find me pro-town?

I do rule out day-talking for mafia. I can't say I've been in a game where mafia were allowed to do that during day phases. And the relevance in this being day 1 is because I am trying to insinuate that we had no night zero, so scum should not have had any NP to talk to each other. The reason I find you pro-town is due to your critical thinking, and how you don't use it sparingly. You have no 2nd thoughts (it seems) when it comes to putting other players in the spotlight, so this gives me the impression that you're not watching anyone else's back.

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

It's a possibility, but not a definite. I say possibility because Mastin was killed by someone, but there's no evidence to suggest whether this was the work of a Kira or a vig. Until we are able to prove anything, it's perfectly healthy to consider the probability of scum starting off with death notes, as well as the probability that they don't start off with them. However, unless someone here is a Kira WITH a death note, then that's the only way they can be certain that Kira DO start off with death notes.

Kise

<- This guy is different to your average scummer in my opinion. I've not liked one of his posts but due to poor logic and dodging questions.

But.. I've already addressed all questions directed at me.. Check out page 27; I answered everyone accordingly.

populartajo

<- Quite quickly proves himself to be town. I like his posts so far. Town read.

Gorrad

<- Town read, hes looking towards my suspect Magnus alot.

Pop contradicts himself by saying Steph is townie for believing both Mastin & Lamont to be pro-town, but then he notices I say practically the same thing about Lamont & Mastin and I get a scum-vibe from him.. He points out similar viewpoints from Steph & I, yet he thinks of only one of us as having a town-vibe.

Gorrad has only made three posts total, with two of them being very short

opinions

/information-bits, rather than being evaluations of scum behavior. This warrants a town-read, how?

@tajo - Please do respond to my concern on page 27 when you get a chance.

HoS: Benmage

I warned you.

[Kise]

However, unless someone here is a Kira WITH a death note, then that's the only way they can be certain that Kira DO start off with death notes.

FoS

@ whoever it was that sounded so certain that Kira start off with death notes.

[Kise]

The fiance and him were really close and an important part of the story. Hes actually claimed a character that can be crossed checked or counter claimed and with the fact that Raye is in this game,

she has to be

. Its like putting salt and pepper on a dinner table.

Zwet is telling the truth.

First of all, why does she have to be in the game? Second of all, if she is, it would be stupid for her to counter claim a name.

Anyone else thinking that maybe zwet is lying & attempting to get the real Naomi to counterclaim? It would seem he's looking for someone to nameclaim, and Gorrad is looking for a way to further identify us... I [obviously] don't know how death note kills work out in this game, but now I get the feeling that they need to know something about our role in order to kill us... I'm not about to play guinea pig and give my info out though.

[Kise]

Zwet isnt lying.

He pretty much admits to lying..

And actually a counter claim would let us know Zwet or X is scum. This is something I'd reveal if someone lied about being me. Finds us scum afterall.

Or, a counter claim would mean that whoever the real Naomi is would have identified themselves to Kira, so that makes them a target for being killed, if the theory in my above is true about how Kira must use death notes.

[Kise]

Doesn't mean much to me if you think I'm scummy. You also think Gorrad is town, and he suggested we all flavor claim.. So that tells me a lot about how (in)valuable your viewpoint can be. I'm not going to ignore anyone who addresses me. That's not being dodgy.. and I do believe I asked earlier how Gorrad gets a town read from you.

1. Here.
2. Kira are not here to help the town. Kira are the killers, in case you somehow forgot. You say Kiras would help by lynching Naomi, who would presumably be pro-town? I don't think so. Perhaps you mean to say Naomi would help us by lynching the fake-Naomi(?), in which that would be more accurate. But it still doesn't help that whoever Naomi is would have identified themselves to any more killers with death notes.

Zwet admits to fakeclaiming, so he intentionally wanted to make himself a target.. Might be best if a vig gets to him first, if you know what I mean.

[Kise]

So Tajo just ignores me? Great.. and then votes for zwet, who

undoubtedly

wanted to become a target. Way I see it, Tajo is trying to get 'something' out of lynching zwet. That something? A death note, kiddies.

I do truly believe we have found Shinigami in zwet.

@Tajo - FFS, how come Steph is cool IYO for thinking of both Lamont & Mastin as townies?

Vote: zwetschenwasser

Sorry to draw MORE attention to zwet, but I feel fishy about Tajo jumping to lynch zwet, especially when I think him and I have reached a similar conclusion. Only thing is, Tajo did not give details to accompany his vote.. Not sure which is the better move, though: Lynching a suspected-Shinigami in hopes of destroying their death note, or lynching a suspected-Kira[?]

[Kise]

@Tajo - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#1710316

2. And

Kira would be doing us a great deal of help as we lynch the other person

and save ourself a night kill.

If not Naomi, then who is the other person?

If Naomi was revealed and the other was scum, and Kira killed the real Naomi that day like you said earlier then we'd simple lynch the other person like I SAID.

OK, we lynch the Kira who fakeclaimed to be Naomi.. but there are more than one Kira. The other Kira would target the real Naomi. This is what I'm getting at.

Zwet wasn't being sarcastic. Don't be so naive. Unless you're trying to NK him by yourself, I don't see how you could dismiss his behavior so easily.

[Kise]

all you people so easily jump on a claim...

Lmao, look who's talking.

@Tajo - Mastin's voters were players I would watch like a hawk. It's not implying that I think Mastin's voters are auto-scum, just that I know how (if they're familiar with Mastin) people would consider him an easy person to lead a lynch against.

@ Jebus & Kai - Can you guys please offer something to this thread, other than activity-posts? I know it can be a bitch to keep up with, but posts your thoughts as you continue to read so the rest of us can at least interact more with you.

[Kise]

Kai, read from page 25 onward to get brought up to speed. I think those pages have good enough generalizations. Plus, there's enough quoted posts that you probably wouldn't even need to backtrack. As you can imagine, with 25 players, there's going to be a lot of stuff going on.

[Kise]

@Zaz - If Mastin was Shinigami, he made it seem like he wanted to be targeted by Kira so that he would know who it was. I figured that since he pointed out how "Shinigami do not care for humans" that he was going to basically snitch on whoever the killer was and let the town lynch him. Only conflict here is determining whether the Shinigami would have had a death note or not, since that's what speculation is at the moment.

As for your 2nd & 3rd questions: As 1 or 2 people said before me, zwet did not claim at the most appropriate of times. He then would later come out and say no one believed his fakeclaim.. Obviously, he just made himself the center of attention. Do you think this is pro-scum behavior, or pro-town for that matter? I certainly don't, because this is the kind of null-tells that keep eyes on you. I think he doesn't fear death because he's Shinigami. The way Tajo jumped to vote for him made me think that I wasn't the only person who had the same thoughts,. And I do apologize for informing Kira about a [highly-possible] Shinigami, but Tajo made a very quiet/fishy vote and I felt the need to alert everyone. Why else would zwet do all of this?

I don't view this as something pro-Kira would do.. and if you all think I'm stubborn with my vote against zwet, it's only because I don't want to leave him for Kira to target during the NP. This is my first vote thus far and I strongly believe it will count for something.

@Starbuck - I already told Ben & Seraphim here, prior to my HoS, that they needed more quality in their post. Ben told me tough luck, so I gave him more than the finger.

@myk - My bad if you thought I was calling you a newb, I wasn't. Just saying that I believe you misunderstand a lot of dialogue and don't get good enough readings, plus you jump on votes a lot.

[Kise]

Zaz... do you believe that all killers in this gave are anti-town?

@Gorrad - Why did you want a flavor claim?

[Kise]

GAME*** note gave

[Kise]

Actually, myk.. there was a post Mastin did where he fakeclaimed to be scum:

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because

I'm a ticked off scum guy

who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<

*joins the facepalm-bandwagon*

Mod, are we allowed to roleclaim, name claim, massclaim, or counterclaim?

Yes to all.

Yes, we can..

I still say NO NAMECLAIMS whether the rules allow it or not.

But no, we won't..

Unvote

[Kise]

To screw with us. Why else?

[Kise]

[Kise]

I think everyone else should wait for Jebus, ZEEnon, Kairyuu & possibly Lamont to post. It's only fair that we let them catch up, since they have jobs/school and aren't losers like the rest of us, sitting around in grandma's basement. They might be better in helping this game progress, so I'll be one to wait.

But on the real.. Jebus, you better be posting tonight since it's only 4 pages, buddy. There's only 1 Jesus [Kise] around here.

[Kise]

I believe this is nothing more than people having a certain/personal criteria when it comes to scumhunting, so... I'm not touching this^ until you two get down to the bottom of what you hope to accomplish.

@Llama - I'm not ignoring your points. I've read every posts made in this thread. I also don't mind lynching myk. I haven't voted for him yet because I'll give it another day or two, depending on what else develops over time. The case against myk seems like the best choice to go with, especially since zwet continues to screw with us.

[Kise]

To be truthful, I didn't want lurking-scum to have any excuses. It'd be better to find out as early as possible whether "work and school" is really what's keeping these players from being a part of this thread, or if they're intentionally avoiding this "battle royale" we have going on.

I'm usually more subtle when it comes to scumtraps, but just thought you should know.

[Kise]

Probably helps. It's still fishy why he wouldn't vote for Mastin if he thought Mastin was Shinigami.

@Zaz - I have no clue what zwet exactly hopes to achieve with this nonsense. At one time, I thought his stunt was a way to act like Mastin and (somehow) come across as a pro-town player, but who knows.. I certainly don't..

@Starbuck - You can feel on me any time you want.

Vote: Myk

He blatantly ignores Zaz's points against him, instead choosing to comment on a later post she made about another player. For reasons mentioned here, I feel confident with my vote on Myk. I also thought it was funny (as in 'harharhar' funny) how Phily plays attorney by giving Myk pointers on how to properly defend himself. Made me think of Coach Carter for a moment.

[Kise]

I miss things, I try to keep up, but I make more mistakes.

OK, but I'm pretty sure Zaz has pointed out continuously how you ignored MO's "slip" and focused on Spolium's.

both times I feel I was forced out of what I wanted, once by llama, once by you

You did not have to be a crowd-pleaser, just

respond

to Llama & Zaz's concerns on how you made the mistake. You never admitted the mistake, so that's why they kept grilling you about it. And if you think BOTH Magnus & Spolium are scum, then it would have been reasonable for you to keep a vote on Spolium, rather than pull the ol' switcheroo.

-Magnus in one of his posts, criticises the Kise-wagon. The following post is from Myko, and only states that Magnus scored town points. Yet, he didn't address Magnus's points against the Kise-wagon, while being one of the voters.

already explained, it was about the explanation of the rules. And why would you bring this up again?

Because, despite the fact that you thought MO was right, you still had your vote on me.. Let's take a look at what MO said, first:

Not buying this kise wagon. Looks

really

fabricated. Kise's posts show a familiarity with mastin's playstyle. Therefore, being able to judge based on meta alone would be perfectly reasonable. This wagon stinks of opportunistic scum trying to take advantage of the sudden new development (and rock the mob opinion away from analyzing those on the wagon)

Then you:

MO scored easy town points.

OK, now it looks like you're agreeing that you're an opportunistic scum.. What gave you reason to say this about MO?

About Kise

He assumes in a post that Mastin is town, before that was known, and attacks players from that position. When questioned, he claims that that rule makes that Mastin must be town, because he isn't modkilled. Kise seems to be one of very few people (1, as I count) that misunderstood that rule that way. It is just a weak excuse for his mistake.

because Kise already seemed to know Mastin was town. He just forgot that he couldn't tell us.

confirm vote Kise

If you agreed with MO earlier, then why keep the vote locked on me? Was it because I was still the highest wagon at the time and you wanted to ride on into lynching me?

[Kise]

Oh, ok.

Unvote
Vote: Myk

If you want me to go over it again, here's why I believed Mastin to be obv-town: I did misunderstand the rules, thinking that we weren't allowed to

truthfully

claim what or who we were. And I also thought of this as a MK'able offense. With that belief of mine, coupled with how Mastin claimed to be Mafia, then later Shinigami (and some other stuff), I figured that since he was still living, he did not truthfully claim, so he had to be the only option left; townie. Plus, Lamont wanted the mod to review what Mastin was saying, so once Mastin finally did die, I figured that Gelus must've made the decision for that to happen.

It's quite funny how you all of a sudden unvote MO because you think he's more than likely townie now. Is this some kind of reverse-bussing?

... of course scum wouldn't tell me the truth... nevermind.

[Kise]

It's not strawman..

why keep the vote locked on me? Was it because I was still the highest wagon at the time and you wanted to ride on into lynching me?

You could say 'no', or give 'other reasons'.

I'm sorry, myk, but this is common scum-panic right here.

[Kise]

he claims that he voted Mastin in Open 145, because Mastin claimed scum and it seemed like a joke. Yet, Mastin also claimed scum in this game in a jokey way as shown in his first post, but ZEEnon didn't vote him for that.
So, there was no difference to me.

Was Mastin town or maf' in 145?

Anyway, ZEE is deliberately avoiding answering his questions. Lynching him would be slightly experimental, but I'm down for it.

HoS: ABR

And if english isn't Myk's 1st language, then how does he know when to use big words like 'subjective'???

[Kise]

{Activity Post}

Jebus should have caught up by now...

[Kise]

Even though he claimed scum, I didn't believe him to be scum, because scum wouldn't claim scum. Therefore, I didn't want anyone to lynch him.

Would that be because you wanted to target him and gain his death note, if he was 3rd party?

[Kise]

You thought he was jester..

[Kise]

Somehow..... I can believe that.....

Alright, guys... if 14 of us make a lynch, we can enter night phase, and those who need to catch up on reading can do all that good stuff when the thread is locked. The best thing we can do right now is decide on lynching top suspects instead of continuing to flood the thread with posts.

ABR, I don't think zwet is going to reach 14 votes. Too many people believe his claim, so you should consider looking into the other cases. What do you think about ZEE & myk?

[Kise]

Anyone else agree? More accurately, are there 10/11 others who agree?

[Kise]

From this post onwards to post 1020 should give you a general idea why i'm voting for myk.

[Kise]

Btw, Semi has found a really interesting scum tell on Kise...

As much as I would dislike talking about another [ongoing] game outside it's thread, here ya go--> When you're in a game (vengeful mafia) that goes on for weeks still in the D1 phase, it's easy to forget things such as scum having a QT during the day. 5-person set up is a very small game anyway, so it's better for scum to talk during the day since that's their only chance to strategize, considering that one of them could be lynched D1. But here? In a

27

26 player game, a.k.a. a moderately-sized game? Scum often only are able to talk at night. But, I have since taken orto's advice and not neglected the idea of day-talking scum here.

It would still be weird to me if they were able to do that here, since every other game I've played besides vengeful mafia only allowed night-talk amongst mafia/masons/etc.

Jesus, Jebus.. hurry it up! This better be an epic post of you're getting the finger.

[Kise]

In fact, like ABR, I'm going to say Gorrad wouldn't be that stupid as scum.

But you thought Mastin was that stupid as scum?

@Zazilicious - I figured that if Mastin was town in 145, then that would justify ZEE not voting for him here. But, since Mastin was scum in 145, it doesn't. Also, another good reason why it was suggested that we only look at the wagons to determine who we should majority-lynch is because then we can enter the night phase, and at least that way people who need to catch up can do so without you... I mean, erm.. you AND others posting up a storm and making it hard for them.

[Kise]

Hmm... did your wiki page get deleted? It might be my computer, but there apparently is no article for your name.

[Kise]

Zaz.... can these questions seriously not wait until someone enters L-1 at least? Then you can unload your questions to be answered during D2. The reason I say wait until L-1 is because there's no telling if you'll be around past the night phase.

(I dare someone to ask me if I'm hinting about having a killing role....)

You know the game is dragging like a dog with an itchy butt whenever the mod doesn't even bother to include a quote with the vote count. (-_-)

UnFos: Seraphim

. He hasn't been on the site since he last came here.

Also, now that I've found out Mastin was maf in 145, I'm wondering why ZEE wouldn't think he was pro-Kira in this game. Out of the 3 big wagons, I'm comfortable with lynching ZEE and/or Myk.

Is there anyone here who has supported ZEE? What makes you think he's pro-town?

[Kise]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 04#1718304

I can't speak for everyone else's reason, but here' mine^.

[Kise]

Read from my root post (1011) all the way up to Post 1020. During our conversation, you accused me of strawmanning when my questions were nothing other than No, Yes, or Other. You also neglected to address my concern when I pointed out how you gave Magnus props when he critcized my wagon (you, Lamont & Star were on that, but you said he was right about critcizing it...), then you later vote Mag because Zazie pressured you(?) by asking why you didn't vote for him when you voted someone else for the same crime Mag was guilty of yet you pardoned Magnus for whatever the crime was (it escapes my mind at the moment), and lastly you unvote him and say he's more likely town.

I honestly thought you ignored addressing this whenever I brought it to your attention, so this is why I am still voting for you. Do you care to comment on the situation with Magnus now?

[Kise]

I honestly thought you ignored addressing this whenever I brought it to your attention, so this is why I am still voting for you. Do you care to comment on the situation with Magnus now?

as I already pointed out, I agreed with the part where he explained the rules, not where he opposes me.

Can you link me to where you previously pointed this out? It'll be much easier if you only display

your

posts.

Also, my hand is still on you, Ben. Unlike zwet, I do understand what you mean in Post 1474, but your stance on Zazie is just.. wrong

[Kise]

@ZEE - MO wanted to get rid of Mastin for wifom, and you pointed out that even if Mastin was targeted by a vig, he'd still be alive (due to him being a shinigami) and the wifom would continue?

Mod: May you inform us whether there are any anti-Kira killing roles?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Closed_Setup

Votecount
ZEEnon - 2 (Lamont_Cranston, Starbuck)
Gorrad - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (Gorrad)
Benmage - 1 (magnus_orion)
Jebus - 1 (zwetschenwasser)
Not voting: ortolan, cateraction, Kairyuu, mykonian, Benmage, ZazieR, Jebus, populartajo, MrBuddyLee, Skruffs, semioldguy, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

This is proof he has no proof.

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Kise]

{Butts in}

By your merged-definition, Lamont, you yourself are = to a crap player.

{Butts out}

Carry on.

[Kise]

I also want to point out that Phily was practically trying to coach Myk into defending himself properly at one point. I would have pegged them as scum buddies if one flipped mafia. Of course, that will be hard to determine since Phily was turned into a neut'.

[Kise]

ZEE did something similar to ABR's diversion. I see that now, and I'm going to avoid voting against ZEE for that reason.

[Kise]

64 pages... still on day 1.

Welcome. I won't blame you if you just bandwagonned to end the phase.

[Kise]

That was directed @ Vi.

[Kise]

Aw fluck, I just realized that we're back to square one... Is everybody going to go back to their former choices, or are we considering the vote-reset as a fresh start? It's still unsettling how Phily tried to act as Myk's defense attorney..

Vote: Myk

And where the fook is orto?

[Kise]

I think it is a way better use of a lynch to try to find the scummiest person of them, then to lynch a person that mostly is attacked for overdefensiveness and active lurking, two tells that can easily be used on town.

Are you admitting to being an active lurker here -- yes or no?

...if I were scum...

Sounds like a book OJ Simpson wrote a few years back.

Votecount
mykonian - 6 (LlamaFluff, cateraction, Kise, Lamont_Cranston, magnus_orion, WeyounsLastClone)
ZEEnon - 1 (Starbuck)
Gorrad - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (Gorrad)
Vi - 1 (zwetschenwasser)
Not voting: ortolan, Kairyuu, mykonian, Benmage, ZazieR, Vi, populartajo, MrBuddyLee, Skruffs, semioldguy, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, Spolium

You can't ever win if you're always on the defensive. To win you have to attack!

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Kise]

Atta' boy.

[Kise]

I can't believe we're finally close to ending the FIRST day! I'm excited.

[Kise]

ZEE did something similar to ABR's diversion. I see that now, and I'm going to avoid voting against ZEE for that reason.

I don''t understand this post

ABR said Mastin was a Jester so that people wouldn't vote for him. ZEE noticed that Magnus was directing a vig-kill on Mastin (who Magnus thought was Shin'), so ZEE tried to make it

seem

futile by stating that Shinigami cannot be killed. ABR & ZEE had different ways of trying to divert [unneeded] attention on Mastin, despite how much attention Mastin knew he would receive.

[Kise]

Mod: what happens if a player with a death note is mod-killed?

We'd deal with it on a case-by-case basis. Let's hope it's not necessary to find out.

Sorry to speculate, but anyone else reading this response to orto as "It hasn't happened yet, and we hope it won't?"

[Kise]

I've made a case against Myko and I find him suspicious. However, I find ZEEnon more suspicious and therefore he has my vote.

Cool, but the rest of us don't find ZEE more suspicious, so at least lynch one of your other suspects today and we'll see about ZEE during D2.

[Kise]

I definitely just said that.

I'm borrowing Zaz's playstyle by responding to each post individually. ^_^ Didn't see your comment when I made mine.

[Kise]

@Zee:

If Mastin is

not

Shinigami then what would a vig kill do to him? (we all know the answer, "kill him".)

As I said yesterday,

I stated a fact.

He

claimed

to be a shinigami. I stated what would happen

if

his claim was true.

I read this as an explanation to his diversion. Do you see it differently [Zaz]?

[Kise]

*glare*

So we're just going to wait for Stephen Hawking to claim before deciding whether to lynch him? Joy...

V/LA for less than a week. I'll have access to a computer, but if this thread piles on the pages, then I'll probably just wait until I get back home to read everything.

[Kise]

Actually Star, reading you in ISO, you never suspected Myk up until this past Sunday. Now I want myk gone as well, but it's just strange.

My suspicions currently lie with Lamont, ZEEnon, and Gorrad. I'm still unsure when it comes to Zwet.

[Kise]

ZEE was the

second

highest lynch wagon before the modkill. Are you saying that today's lynch is Myko and only Myko?

ZEE has, what, 2 votes on him? Compared to myk's 11, who else is a probable lynch?

[Kise]

Alrighty then.. So what kind of claim do you all expect from Myk; character, role, both? Just a hint/softclaim?

Votecount
mykonian - 11 (LlamaFluff, cateraction, Kise, Lamont_Cranston, magnus_orion, WeyounsLastClone, ortolan, Stephoscope, Starbuck, MrBuddyLee, populartajo)
ZEEnon - 2 (Kmd4390, ZazieR)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (Gorrad)
Not voting: cateraction, Kairyuu, mykonian, Benmage, Vi, Skruffs, semioldguy, Seraphim, ZEEnon, Spolium, zwetschenwasser

I am God of this new world.

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Kise]

But she never addressed the Myko case and I don't think she has ever explained why she's suspicious of Myko.

That's what I was getting at.

[Kise]

But she never addressed the Myko case and I don't think she has ever explained why she's suspicious of Myko.

That's what I was getting at.

But I was there first

We arrived together.

And Steph, Zazie is bringing to your attention how you point out others say Myk is coasting through the game, but you're doing virtually the same.

[Kise]

Actually, not just coasting, but also IIOA & other [minor] posts have been made by you, Steph.

And about the steroid comparison: What if the other players also think you're using the juice?

[Kise]

Hmm... after re-reading:

Well, with mykonian, let me be clear: I am not at all convinced he's scum.

I suppose it's believable that you're not juicing, Steph.

[Kise]

When did robocop say he'd be back?

[Kise]

Wow... I thought Lamont was the day-killer.

Myk, are you able to kill every day, or was that 1-shot?

[Kise]

Nobody BUT Myk answer that, please.

[Kise]

@Mag - Could be more 1-shot vigs, if that's what Myk is.
@Zaz - I'll answer after Myk.

[Kise]

It is a good reason. Sit tight and wait for Roger Troutman's return.

[Kise]

Hold the hell up... I'm rolefishing somebody, who ALREADY outed his power? That's a laugh.

[Kise]

I've gotten to the page where I mentioned that Kise lied about ever having been in a game when scum can day talk. That ongoing game from then is now complete and he was scum in that game who could daytalk, so there is no excuse for his statement in my opinion.

I wanted you to read this thread and think I was oblivious to the QT, so I could appear townie. I won that game, as a matter of fact. Meta FTW

[Kise]

I'm not selling.

[Kise]

It is a good reason. Sit tight and wait for Roger Troutman's return.

Alright well here it is. I was hoping he would spill his guts, then get lynched, and if he flips Kira like I think he will, it would at least help us understand some of what the other killers could do. I wanted Myk to have the impression he'd survive a lynch, and I wanted to assess his psychology behind any further daykills he commits.

I also wanted to know if it was one-shot because I feel like Myk is too reckless to be vig.

@Lamont - I tried to appear townie to SOG in THIS game by making him think I wasn't scum in out Vengeful mafia game. I told him I forgot about the quiktopic because I wasn't using it (:P). Not sure if I convinced SOG in this thread, but he unvoted for me.

Still... this is a large game. I can understand a 5-person game having day-talking mafia. But whatever. You guys believe whatever you want for this game. Speculation gets us nowhere.

[Kise]

BTW, Zaz, here's a better quote you should've used.

Btw, Semi has found a really interesting scum tell on Kise...

As much as I would dislike talking about another [ongoing] game outside it's thread, here ya go--> When you're in a game (vengeful mafia) that goes on for weeks still in the D1 phase, it's easy to forget things such as scum having a QT during the day. 5-person set up is a very small game anyway, so it's better for scum to talk during the day since that's their only chance to strategize, considering that one of them could be lynched D1. But here? In a

27

26 player game, a.k.a. a moderately-sized game? Scum often only are able to talk at night. But, I have since taken orto's advice and not neglected the idea of day-talking scum here.

It would still be weird to me if they were able to do that here, since every other game I've played besides vengeful mafia only allowed night-talk amongst mafia/masons/etc.

Notice this is the 2nd time Lamont has tried to use this against me.

How much information do you feel is being revealed by this "situation" Lamont? What can you really do with the knowledge of mafia day-talking here?

[Kise]

Wow. Wish we could have used that 67 pages ago. Orto & Lamont need to get back on the wagon.

[Kise]

Point blank, he's reckless with his kills. Scum would probably leave him alive IF myk is anti-Kira.

Still, I like Llama's above post. Myk has been lying to us at most portions of the game.

Votecount
mykonian - 11 (LlamaFluff, cateraction, Kise, magnus_orion, WeyounsLastClone, Stephoscope, Starbuck, MrBuddyLee, populartajo, Kairyuu, Benmage)
ZEEnon - 3 (Kmd4390, ZazieR, Lamont_Cranston)
Lamont_Cranston - 2 (Gorrad, ortolan)
Not voting: cateraction, mykonian, Vi, Skruffs, semioldguy, Seraphim, ZEEnon, Spolium, zwetschenwasser

Light-san, please make Misa-san be quiet.

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Kise]

FIRST

[Kise]

!#(*HWQDJKL@*(@WDJKHKBWQ......

SECOND!

I have also been thinking that, with knowledge of Myk's role and based on the 2 night kills, that Kira don't need names to kill. I actually would not object to a nameclaim at this point, but maybe we should keep things interesting by holding off on that.

Other thoughts are that the two kills are from the other 2 (possible) Shinigami. It was rumored since D1 that there were 3 total Shinigami from the show who could appear. The chances of 2 Kiras targeting Shinigami and then turning around to be able to use their death notes seems less-likely; not all in 1 night. I would favor the idea that Shinigami are responsible for Cat & Zazie's deaths.

First name that comes to mind is Benmage. He voted Zazie out of dislike for her style, and considered her an annoyance.

Vote: Benmage

Quite early, but Zazie's death hints me to him having a hand in it. As for cat'... Not sure if he had much interaction with anyone. I'll re-read later.

[Kise]

I have also been thinking that, with knowledge of Myk's role

When we lynched him, wasn't the information revealed his role details?

The chances of 2 Kiras targeting Shinigami and then turning around to be able to use their death notes seems less-likely; not all in 1 night.

Here I am saying that with it being 2 NKs (at the time of my post), how would it be possible for [two] Kira to luckily target Shinigami AND be able to use the death notes during the same night phase(?).

I would favor the idea that Shinigami are responsible for Cat & Zazie's deaths.

Corroboration of my previously mentioned thoughts.

As for cat'... Not sure if he had much interaction with anyone. I'll re-read later.

He defended ZEE to an extend and said he would like to have Lamont lynched. Take from that what you want. He wasn't very vocal, but.. something is better than nothing.

Hopefully that answers a few of the questions I'm receiving... I can't believe 3 pages have been made over it.

@zwet - Any luck with that tracking power? My character is connected to Near/SOG.. but I didn't get any special ability after he died.

[Kise]

Kise, explain why exactly you think these nightkills came from the shinigami. Considering that another nk came soon after, this reasoning is suspicious.

My initial reaction to the aftermath of Night 1, tis all.

Do you know who targetted what?

Zwet might.

Since a scum faction is extremely likely, the fact that soon afterwards someone died, suggests that kise may know who targetted what.

How does it suggests I know who targeted who?

[Kise]

@Kai - how did I out myself as SOG's killer?

[Kise]

@mag - When I say the Kira targeting Shinigami, I am referring to the Kira targetting Shinigami to obtain their death notes and be able to use them for themselves.

@Kise:

@Kai - how did I out myself as SOG's killer?

I never said you did that.

You didn't?

@Lamont: Yes, and his second post, which is probably what you are talking about. I disagree, as is quite obvious by the fact that I proposed my own theory. Either

Kise is stupid scum that outed himself by pseudo-claiming the kill on semi

, or our two theories need to be evaluated seperately to see which one is more likely.

Then what else does the bolded text mean?

If it's true that myk can target other Shinigami/Kira and obtain their death notes... it's likely he's responsible for killing SOG. I'm believing that (during the night) he targeted another player that had a death note and used it to kill SOG during the day... I'm quite tempted to lynch myk again. Just to be sure, we should lynch him D7 if the game lasts that long, unless we shouldn't trust the "7th day win condition" in which case lynching him sooner would be for the best.

Unvote

and I act as a rolecop, and that helps me with looking for a deathnote. zazie didn't have one.

Hinting towards being responsible for her death(?)

[Kise]

@gorrad: This was in Myk's death note:

At night, you may anonymously give away your Death Note to any player. You may also choose to destroy it.

With a Death Note, you may kill once per night. You may choose whether to have the player die immediately or after a certain amount of posts, and in what way. If no specifications are given, the kill defaults to immediate and death of a heart attack.

If a human obtains a Death Note and he already has one, he must immediately give it away to a player of his choice.

The same rule applies to Shinigami; however, Shinigami wait until the end of the night to give it away.

So.... what inspires this talk of Kira bribing myko? Do one of you know whether scum/Kira can communicate with myko?

[Kise]

I still get the feeling either Myk or one of the Kira targeted a Shinigami during the night, then used their death note to kill SOG. It's easy to say I knew SOG's death was coming since I was around at the time that the night results were posted. If suspicion should go into that route, I'd like to point out that Lamont & KMD were active around that time as well. We each made 2 posts a piece.. I spammed my 1st post just to be the 1st commenter (KMD beat me to it), then added some substance w/ my follow-up post. Lamont congratulates Llama on the case against myk & asks an open question, forgetting to place a vote on ZEEnon, which he does in his next post. KMD was the 1st to post once the thread re-opened and stated his belief about nameclaiming not being a problem. 2nd post, he answers Lamont's question.

After our 6 posts... boom. SOG has a heart attack[?] and makes the front page.

Like I said to zwet, I did not get any ability after SOG's death, and I would like to think that Near (of all characters) had an ability. Zwet, did you really gain anything from Mastin, or were you tugging our chains? Please answer seriously.

[Kise]

Kise seems pretty ridiculous, why is he soft claiming a connection

Because I am under the impression zwet was bullsh*tting about gaining Mastin's (Rayne) ability. He claimed to have linked-characters.. so it's puzzling to me how his character (he claims to be Rayne's wife) gets the goods when she's nearly insignificant.

[Kise]

Notebook? Lulz

@mag - Same question can be posed to you; Is there anything concrete to support the idea that a Kira

begins

the game with a death note?

So far, there's no evidence of vigilantes. The rules say that if a killer/Kira kills a player possessing a death note, they'll take it

from that point forward

. Again, what gives the impression that a Kira started off on Day 1 with a death note?

[Kise]

are you suggesting that

they

were waiting around to hasten the daykill, but

you

clearly weren't?

I think it was either magnus or Kai who accused me of knowing SOG's

daykill

was coming. So, if that's the game we're going to play, then I pointed out that I was not alone in making minimal-commentary. Are you intentionally deflecting attention from Lamont & KMD?

And no, I myself am not saying that either of us 3 were trying to hasten the kill; just bringing it to Kai/magnus' attention of who else was around and how little was said by each of us.

[Kise]

There is evidence of vigs. Day 1 someone died, in the day phase, before any night.

So the impression is that myk lied about being the one who killed Mastin?

Check out how everyone is getting slayed: Mastin was plugged full of holes and left leaking; Zazie had a heart attack; cateraction was beat the f*ck down by a lion; semi was ran over by a car (not a heart attack, as I thought earlier).

Evidence of vigilantes... where?

The death note rules clearly state the kill must be submitted at night.
Explain how kira kills to obtain a death note without a death note.

So again, we'd have to believe a Kira killed Mastin and not myk? Or do you know for certain that a day-vigilante was the one who killed Mastin, because that's what it is sounding like more & more?

• If a player possessing a Death Note is killed, the killer (if there are multiple killers, one is chosen at random) receives the Death Note.

So what's implied here is that the killers can kill someone and receive the death note, BUT they already had a note and have to pass the new one along? What do the rest of you make of this rule?

[Kise]

I'd say the likelyhood mastin was killed by a day-vig is around 90%

Ehhh.. help me to understand the confidence in this belief, por favor.

[Kise]

Read MBL in iso for a good laugh.

Vote: MrBuddyLee

Compared to the bustling activity he's giving the Wheel of Time thread, I'd say it's healthy to believe something isn't right about him here.

[Kise]

Hmm... I wonder if this relates to this game.

I have a post in the works right now to satisfy you, my loyal fans. Sit tight.
ETA: 10 minutes

[Kise]

Ya me too. Both you guys are doing great today.

They've practically been flirting the whole game.

Moving along -- You guys are got the impression that I tried to discourage the killing of a Shinigami? Are we forgetting that I thought of Mastin as obvtown?

In short, I am saying that if Mastin

WAS

genuine on his claim as Shinigami...

Bolded & underlined for emphasis. Had semi not asked about scum's motivation to lynch a Shinigami, I would not have given him my opinion on the matter. No where in my response to SOG did I try to discourage anyone from voting Shinigami; I expressed how I hated the probability that scum could end up with the death note instead of town.

I did not make my 1st vote until page 31, well after Mastin died. It was against zwet,

who I suspected was Shinigami, while also considering the possibility that Tajo was scum that wanted to obtain zwet's death note after lynching him

.

So... try again with something other than this case about me discouraging Shinigami lynch mobs.

Are you intentionally deflecting attention from Lamont & KMD?

Given that I don't read them as scum, I don't see the harm in it.

How did you get town (or null?) reads from these two?

Anyone else agree with Gorrad and see the point Kise is making?

(in reference to MrBuddyLee)

No one...? Myk probably killed the credibility.

[Kise]

For reading ease, here is the convo between me and SOG. Re-read and point out any

definite example

of me trying to discourage a Shinigami lynch. Weak theories are easy to counter.

What motivation would scum have to kill an unkillable player to remove a potential Death Note? Getting rid of all the Death Notes is the town win condition and I don’t know why scum would help us with the town win condition. If a player claims Shinigami, we should lynch them as that is the only way town can be sure to get rid of the potential Death Note

It's up to Gelus who he picks to hold the death note. A townie could hold/destroy it, or an anti-town player could hold it and become Kira. I don't like leaving things up to chance. Leading a lynch on a supposed Shinigami will only lure in the killers to get a chance at holding a Death Note. On the same token, it sucks that probability has to decide whether a vig or a killer win the death note if both parties target the supposed Shinigami. In short, I am saying that if Mastin WAS genuine on his claim as Shinigami, then that would only result in a new Kira by the time D2 rolled around.

Again, for anyone thinking I wanted to distract others from lynching Shinigami, check the linked-post where I vote for zwet and state that I think he's Shinigami.

[Kise]

I did not make my 1st vote until page 31

It's interesting to note that Shini-myko votes for me directly afterward.

Zwet, I know you're around here somewhere... what's good with that supposed tracking ability of yours?

[Kise]

Almost forgot.

Now, do you plan on telling me what led you to come up with your theory on how nightkills work?

Just like Shinigami have unique win conditions, it's not far fetched to believe that one of them was unique enough to be a daykiller.

Lamont, since you're here, what do you think of my post? If you think it's redeemable, then why no unvote; Waiting to see if the wagon will continue before you decide for yourself?

[Kise]

You mean obvtown as in "don't lynch please"?

Everyone else is entitled to their own opinion.

"Are we forgetting that

I

thought of Mastin as obvtown?"

Probability? Your quote was "

WOULD

be another Kira"; that means 100%

Would, could, should, might, white, shite. Whatever. Why didn't you stick with this case if you thought my use of

would > might = suspicious

; in other words, why wait until a wagon forms?

[Kise]

You and me both know that there is no claim good enough to get unvoted. Unless I fakeclaimed doc... hmm...

[Kise]

Honestly, f*ck claiming. Post 2227 clearly shuts Vi's case down because it shows how I never wanted to divert from lynching a Shinigami. If you refuse to accept the fact that I called zwet possible Shinigami & voted for him, then you're persistent scum.

Town needs to check with zwet regarding his supposed tracking ability;

ignore

Vi because he came up with a BS case out of thin air while supposedly reviewing Lamont, not to mention he also caused Orto to leave the game; lynch and/or pressure MBL; lynch Myk on Day 4 (trust me, not D3) just to be sure he didn't find another death note; teach Starbuck that it's OK not to bandwagon all the time; and do not auto-lynch anyone who hammers me today... unless they're a known scummy player, or had no valid reason to hammer.

[Kise]

Lamont, since you're here,

what do you think of my post?

If you think it's redeemable, then why no unvote; Waiting to see if the wagon will continue before you decide for yourself?

[Kise]

I had fun. Hard to keep up with because there were so many pages of discussion that was going nowhere. I also had a feeling MO was the daykiller based on his belief of a dayvig. I thought it was setting up for a fakeclaim, but, lo & behold, it was a pro-town role (Lamont).

Congrats to deathnote (and Llama?).