Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

[ZazieR]

Before I'll read what I have missed, I'd like to point out the above wanted poster. I'm looking for Misa Amane, also known as Misa Misa *shrug*
She looks cute and innocent, but she's definitly not. I'm sorry to disappoint all her fans, but she has...a Death Note O.o (yeah, the wanted poster says 'the', but there are more. She's just more important than the other threats right now) I've got reasons to believe that she uses it to gather her fanboys, because obv I'm much prettier, yet I'm not famous >.<
So break free of 'her spell' and tell me who Misa is, and I'll stop this EVIL. If nobody will, I'll get to her by force
Thanks for your attention ♥

P.S. If you know somebody who is under 'her spell', the way to free them is to vote them, like

Vote Kmd

Good luck ♥

[ZazieR]

I'd like to see links from the games you (Kai or Magnus) have played with the other. I don't want to see good logic ruined >.<

[ZazieR]

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because I'm a ticked off scum guy who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<
Let's scum hunt:

Mastin Votes: Mastin

.

...........

you are either lying or not playing toward your win condition. Unless this is normal for you, which I sincerely hope its not,

unvote
vote mastin

So you think/thought that he wasn't playing towards his win condition. Why did you think this?
Also, you stated that this could be his normal approach. Why didn't you check if this is the case?

[ZazieR]

I wish, Zee. I *think* that Ort's a member of my group, but because I was the ONLY one using the QT and wasn't informed of my partner's name, there's no way to be certain. <_<

If you are claiming scum, I want your role name please.
Why are you choosing to reveal this to us?
On a side note, why haven't you accepted my EM friend request?

Based upon Open 145, ZEEnon is not town.

IGMEOY

[ZazieR]

Nah. Just expose the rest of the scum team. I was lying; I'm a Shinigami. I'm a NK-immune serial killer whatnot with the ability to track one person per night. I'm a mason with another player, and together, we're both roleblockers.

Pfft, this would be more likelier to have in a game.
I'm not buying it at all.
And when pressing the preview button, I saw the quote in Phily's post. Very interesting.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I have no idea why Lamont asked the mod to look at the quote from Mastin, but it made me look at the rules.

Mod

- Regarding this rules:

In this game, it is possible to obtain a Death Note in several ways. If a player possessing a Death Note is lynched, a random member of the lynch mob receives the Death Note. If a player possessing a Death Note is killed, the killer (if there are multiple killers, one is chosen at random) receives the Death Note.

The town win condition is to destroy all Death Notes. Any protown player that obtains a Death Note will automatically destroy it.

Will we get notified in this topic if a Death Note has been destroyed?

Yes.

[ZazieR]

Perhaps have you considered that it is a strategic move meant for a very specific purpose?

No, it's not a strategic move. I've yet to see it actually work.

Mastin Unvotes: Mastin,
Mastin Votes: Magnus Orion.

This is blatant OMGUS.

Bad vote.

[ZazieR]

If you are claiming scum, I want your role name please.

Not scum. A shinigami; I'm not saying which.

Why are you choosing to reveal this to us?

I'm the kind of guy who'd want the town to win as an anti-town role.

On a side note, why haven't you accepted my EM friend request?

I haven't had a chance to get onto EM recently, Zee. Real life and all.

Ah, I see why you did that now.
Not sure if it will achieve anything, but i'll trust your judgement.
So much winking in this post.

^^Obv connected.

[ZazieR]

Mastin claims to be a Shinigami, magnus_orion.
They are unlynchable and unkillable according to the rules.

This game contains Shinigami. Shinigami are powerful, invincible neutral roles with unique win conditions. Shinigami cannot be lynched or killed.

If they would be lynched, instead their rolename is revealed, they lose their Death Note if they possess one as per the rules above

, and the game continues as normal (the day still ends).

If they would be killed

, the same is true except that their rolename is not revealed.

In the case that he's a shinigami, a lynch can still be useful. And shinigami's are connected to their death note. Destroy the death note, and I think the shinigami will 'be killed'.
Actually, as he claimed SK, a lynch might be a good idea. I'll get back to this later.

[ZazieR]

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

Why is Mastin obv town?
I'll get back to your Lamont stuff later.

Also:
Real Dayk-kill
(Thanks bunches, FL)

[ZazieR]

Dislike my style, now? It's got us out of the RVS in less than three pages, and given us a suspect. It works

At this moment, I say it has failed. Of the players who discussed it when I wasn't present, Magnus is the most town.

And I'd like to know why you didn't give any comments regarding Lamont's mod-kill question until Kai started discussing it.

[ZazieR]

@Lamont: Back off. Now. You do not want to press the ad hom further. Trust me.

I love your wiki by the way. It fails to apply at all to actual strong scumtells. Not to mention the fact that you would be hard pressed to avoid your own lynch if you tried to push lynches based solely on those criteria.

What ad hom?
Also, what's your point about the wiki stuff in this quote? Do you see it as a tell, and why?

[ZazieR]

I don't remember this being mentioned anywhere, mr. mastin.

This game contains Shinigami. Shinigami are powerful, invincible neutral roles

with unique win conditions

. Shinigami cannot be lynched or killed. If they would be lynched, instead their rolename is revealed,

they lose their Death Note

if they possess one

as per the rules above, and the game continues as normal (the day still ends). If they would be killed, the same is true except that their rolename is not revealed.

I imagine the connection is rather obvious. Shinigami have to have a deathnote. Anyone watching the anime would know this. Losing it via lynching/night-kills would devastate them, making me think they'd instantly lose.
Simple logic, really.

Lynch all Liars.

Yeah, sure See the underlined bit.
Also, as long as a Death Note is not destroyed, the Shinigami will be able to survive. Everyone who has seen/read Death Note knows this. Losing it, doesn't affect them.
And explain the LaL bit.

[ZazieR]

I don't publicize my scum tells.

unvote
vote: lamont

Like this?

Uhm, I don't understand this vote

[ZazieR]

I don't publicize my scum tells.

unvote
vote: lamont

Like this?

Uhm, I don't understand this vote

distancing?

I'm talking about the reason of the vote. Magnus quoted Lamont, and I don't understand why that's a reason to vote.

[ZazieR]

As we don't know what roles are in the game, any role might know anything. This is rolefishing.

Magnus, listen to Mastin, the genius. Obv, townies know how many shinigami there are. And scum know exactly who the cop is. A doctor? No, because I've information that there isn't one.[/sarcasm]
There has been no N0, so I see no reason why a town alligned player might know something.

Move aside, Albert. There's a new illogical guy on the rampage.

I actually found a image that fits with this quote

[ZazieR]

Lamont_Cranston's thoughts: "

Why is magnus_orion busing me so early?

"

My thoughts: ZEEnon still has his random vote at Ortolan (I'll be nice in this game for you, Orto). I wonder why?

[ZazieR]

Writing something off as a joke-->Scummy.

Why?
Also, this makes me curious. Was what you did in the RVS serious or jokey?
And if it was jokey, what parts were all jokey?

[ZazieR]

I don't publicize my scum tells.

unvote
vote: lamont

Like this?

Uhm, I don't understand this vote

distancing?

I'm talking about the reason of the vote. Magnus quoted Lamont, and I don't understand why that's a reason to vote.

Its not.

No explanation behind the vote?

[ZazieR]

@Mastin and Kai
Asking for a modkill on a player you think is scum, is that a town action or a scum action and why?

[ZazieR]

Based upon Open 145, ZEEnon is not town.

IGMEOY

I suspected him in that game because I did not know that he does that frequently.
Therefore, this time I am taking that into consideration. Also keep in mind that he was scum in that game.

Exactly, he was scum in that game. And you suspected him as he said that he was scumhunting and right after that put a vote on himself. He did the same here. Yet, you did not address that at all here.
Also, tell how you knew this time that he did it in other games as well.

My thoughts: ZEEnon still has his random vote at Ortolan (I'll be nice in this game for you, Orto). I wonder why?

My thoughts: Not everybody hops on wagons without questioning their suspects.

You sure did in Open 145. I will check if this is also the case in other games.
And questioning? I have so far only seen one question you asked Magnus in which you even give him a way out.

[ZazieR]

@Mastin (and ZEEnon as I'm not sure if he used this argument as well)
You are using as argument against Orto that he was late with confirming. Yet, Kai was either last or before Orto. So why wasn't this argument used as well against Kai?

[ZazieR]

Yes. You caught me. Not confirming was a deliberate scum gambit because not confirming as scum enables me to.........um wait I'll think of something later.

It allows for further scum chat. In fact, your explanation fits my first scum tell PERFECTLY:

The last to confirm is more likely to be scum. Gives the scum their full time to chat. It's either a scum tell, or a mason tell. (I've been asked to drop it before, but I never will)

Uhm, there might be a reason why that's asked of you? Like not every mod let scum talk pre-game. Unles you know they were allowed.
But I don't see this as a tell.

Who here thinks that pushing mod kills is a scum tell?

*raises hand*

Depends on the context.

You talked about modkills keeping the day going. I gave an example to disprove it.

Which is an invalid example, as this is clearly not a newbie game.

and you've failed to answer my points for the desire to mod-kill you not actually being scummy.

Scum push the modkill of town in order to end the day and get in a night-kill.

And town wouldn't push a modkill, because? I've seen town do it. Haven't you as well?

As Xyl might say,

Expressing confusion-->Scummy.

And why is this?

[ZazieR]

Expect more of this.

Yea, and that's sooooo pro-town...[/sarcasm]

Is this scummy or not and why?

[ZazieR]

I totally agree with Zwet.

This is a contradiction.

Nuu.. He thinks Mastins acting different to his town play, so do I.

he claimed third party, yes, I call that different. We agree on that. I'm still thinking what it means.

Well if he were scum, claiming to have a neutral role MIGHT earn him some credit right off the bat, obviously people didnt like it (Kairyuu seems to have for some uknown reason). Doing it early lets him jump on the 'I claimed before I was forced to so its less likely to be a lie' excuse.

If hes telling the truth, he really shoud've waited >_>

But in the end, Kai saw Mastin as obv-town. I want to hear why and how his view changed from Mastin who used an annoying null tell to obv town Mastin.
I don't think Mastin's claim says anything of his allignment, though this might change based upon the answers he'll give.

[ZazieR]

I'll get back to the discussion between Mastin - Magnus later, because this is what I'm thinking right now >.<

[ZazieR]

Choosing RVS over the elephant in the room in scummy.

Vote Benmage

Don't like this vote as Kevin barely mentioned what was discussed.
And why do you want Mastin to be killed during the night? Why not a lynch?

[ZazieR]

Ok, now it's time that I'll put some posts together in one.

3: Directing vigs-->Scumtell.

Vig Directing-->Scummy.

Yea...I'll be shot by the scum when I nail one of their own, alright. Let's hope there's a doctor of some sort in this game.

So Mastin, why nothing about directing the vig when addressing Kevin?

Ignoring a player-->HUGE scum tell.

I'm ignoring him (Benmage) because I think we'll find the scum in Lamount and Magnus.

Hypocrite. Though ignoring is indeed scummy.

Also, Lamont:

Why ask for it if you're not trying to get a modkill?

This. Please answer.

And Mastin, it was not OMGUS in my eyes.

[ZazieR]

@Star
In your first post, you stated two things what were scummy that caught my attention:

I think blatantly ignoring anyone in a mafia game isn't a good play at all and is incredibly scummy.

Magnus tried to direct a vig kill toward him (Mastin).

However, Mastin said in one of his posts that he ignores Benmage. And both Lamont and Kevin (Kmd) have also suggested that a vig should kill Mastin.
How come you didn't point these things out?
Also, why do you see pushing for a moddkill as scummy?

[ZazieR]

OK, kai and Mastin seem town on page 4. Magnus is looking like active, but antitown scum, looking for a good place for his vote.

Can you explain how you got these reads?

[ZazieR]

Also, tell how you knew this time that he did it in other games as well.

It is quite evident that you haven't read the game through.

I did.
Can you now give an explanation as you've fully ignored it.

[ZazieR]

Fully ignored what ?
(I suggest you stop twisting things for your own advantage.)

I wanted to hear an explanation how you knew. Yet, you didn't address how you knew at all in your response. So can you do so?
As you didn't explain, you ignored it. No twisting.

[ZazieR]

Please stop with the lies.
Fully ignoring would not be commenting on your post at all.
I clearly do so in post 184.
If you had actually read the game you would have noticed:

If you can't tell, I strongly disapprove of that move, but you've ignored everyone else who tried to get you to stop, so I'm not even gonna bother trying.

This.

Note my comment on the matter. He does it all the time, and I am expecting that he will claim you to be scum and vote you now. That seems to be the general progression from what I've seen.

Or at least this.

Thank you
(Just in case

Unvote

as my previous vote wasn't counted...)

Vote ZEEnon

And I said that you fully ignored my request for an explanation. Now, what you did was twisting. Not my reason for voting you though, part of it though.

[ZazieR]

You seriously can't see where Kairyuu stated that Mastin has done this before?

I could. That's why I asked. Because the first ime it happened, was 1 minute before you replied to Mastin's post.
So, how big would be the chance that you read that post, and checked if this was actually true, and changed your post in that one minute? Even without checking, this seems very unlikely.

[ZazieR]

You seriously can't see where Kairyuu stated that Mastin has done this before?

I could. That's why I asked. Because the first ime it happened, was 1 minute before you replied to Mastin's post.

So, how big would be the chance that you read that post, and checked if this was actually true, and changed your post in that one minute? Even without checking, this seems very unlikely.

[ZazieR]

ZazieR, you are acting extremely hard to deal with right now.
First of all, I did not claim that I went to check out Mastin's meta to verify.
Second of all, you claim that I

changed

my post.
I wasn't going to post. The reason why I posted was to comment on what I seen.

See the second line in which I state that even without checking it seems very unlikely.
And if you didn't change your post, it means you didn't want to vote Mastin for the same thing you voted him in Open 145 to start with.
So which is it? Did you or did you not want to vote Mastin for the same reason you voted him in Open 145 and why?

Votecount
Lamont_Cranston - 5 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion, ortolan,

Mastin

, Starbuck)

Mastin

- 4 (Lamont_Cranston, benmage, PhilyEc, zwetschenwasser)
magnus_orion - 3 (mykonian, Seraphim, ZEEnon)
benmage - 1 (Kmd4390)
ZEEnon - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Not voting:

cateraction

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Stephoscope, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

I told you the Gods are on my side... this time, though - It's another God of Death.

With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

I'll get back to this after I've seen something.

[ZazieR]

Incorrect.

I swear, this is truly an interesting day for me. I never knew such mind melds were possible.

Zee says what would take me paragraphs and minutes to.

So he voted without making it clear why he did? Thats rather unlike Mastin O_o My bad anyways, thought you were just parroting o.o

No, Mastin had different reasons to vote and later agreed with ZEEnon's observation.

[ZazieR]

So basically Mastin got it easy when Zee made an excuse for him, before we could see if Mastin had legit reasons? I need to re-read al-fuckin-ready ¬_¬

No, Mastin voted Magnus somewhere at the start due to 'his trap'. And from that moment found many reasons to suspect him.
Later ZEEnon's observation got added.

[ZazieR]

Is one of my posts mentioned in Mastin's post

Votecount
Lamont_Cranston - 5 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion, ortolan,

Mastin

, Starbuck)

Mastin

- 4 (Lamont_Cranston, benmage, PhilyEc, zwetschenwasser)
magnus_orion - 3 (mykonian, Seraphim, ZEEnon)
benmage - 1 (Kmd4390)
ZEEnon - 1 (

ZazieR

)
mykonian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
Not voting:

cateraction

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Stephoscope, Spolium, WeyounsLastClone

But... if one of them is Kira... that means Kira's psychological state has already reached the divine level. He's judging sinners without batting an eye.

With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

Upon first read, I am getting the vibe of a bunch of townies all accusing one another. I think the way this game started, gameplay getting off to a quick start with lots of pages while some players hadn't even posted yet, is probably being taken advantage of by the scum. I'm not used to games with this many players though, so I don't have a good feel for how they typically start.

I think Lamont is town. I think he is playing aggressively, and alerted the mod when he saw what he thought was a violation, but that doesn't mean he's scum. And his OMGUS's don't concern me. I OMGUS all the time as town, because I always think I'm acting so townie that anyone who would want me dead must be scum.

What/Which posts are given you these vibes?
Also, the last sentence of the first paragraph seems like a newbie defence for large games. Not liking that. Especially as you've played a large theme game before in which you didn't feel the need to point this out. So why's that?
And last, why did you only give a detailed version of your opinion for Lamont, and not for other players who already had posted?

[ZazieR]

The key to catching the RVS in any given game:

Log in before Mastin does.

Or be online when Zaz first posts something in the game

Mastin, about the Misa stuff, I did all that due to this. Somebody stole the role that is perfect for me >.<, and now, that player will pay for it
As for the prettier comment, ABR is in this game. I'm not gonna link for this reason >.<

As for metaing (Yes, it's a word >.< Say it's not, and you'll feel the consequences ) I know it's not foolproof. It's failed me lately. But I'm positive that I'll be correct one game, so I'm now working towards that >.< Besides, ZEEnon is scummy.

I've already explained why I'm doing the many posts. But are you using that as a comparison towards my point against ZEEnon?

Of course you can have fun. Don't I do the same in my games?
But like I pointed out, even the flying pumpkin seemed more likelier to have in this game >.<
Also, later it became more obv to me that you were joking. At the start, I didn't know what to think. I don't think it means anything for now.

And I thought as well that Lamont tried to get you modkilled (he later said that that wasn't his attention, so I'll have to look at that as well), however I don't see anything in that quote that was a modkillable offense

1: It got us out of the RVS, even with so few players, in a VERY short time span,

2: It got us debating,

3: It got us scum hunting,

4: It caught scum,

5: And gave me an excellent read on most players at the time,

6: And I imagine will continue to help me get a read on other players weighing in.

I disagree. Selfvoting can be seen as scummy depending on the players involved. I've seen a self-vote in three games now. The first two, both the main discussers about the self-vote were town. One of the players involved was scum though in both cases, but as most players were looking at the main discussers, this player got barely noticed. In the third game, scum self-voted at the start as he always does that. Can you guess who that was, Mastin ?
Due to the other two examples, I think it's bad as it gets us out of the RVS, but with a weak attack in which many players have a different vision to even when not based upon allignment. So 1 is perhaps true, but it lead to a bad 2 and 3. I disagree with 4. Which leaves only 5 and 6. And these reads will change with the players who are looking at it if they look at it.
tl;dr I think traps are bad for town.

We'll see at the end if it actually worked, but at this moment, I don't think it did.

As for the connection, I pointed it out in case one of you flip. I will get back to that connection I pointed out if/when that happens.

As you probably later saw, I don't think you should be lynched based upon the claim in the RVS alone.

You probably also saw that I asked Kai why he thinks you're obv-town, not you. So let him answer.

And yeah, you indeed commented right after Lamont asked the mod to look at that quote. However, I don't get the impression that you see it as scummy when you first responded to it. Only after Kai responded to it, you give me the impression that you see it as scummy.

Exactly, only if a pro-town player gets the Death Note, it will be destroyed. And have you seen the bit I underlined in that post?
Also, this:

Any scum player possessing a Death Note is Kira. There can be multiple Kiras, even at the same time, and there even can be no Kiras.

This implies to me, that at least one scum player has a death note. So I say that your point is invalid.

Well, it looked like bussing to me. What do you think?

Is this aimed at me If so, I'll answer this when Magnus has finally given his reason for voting Lamont.

[ZazieR]

Just do what I do and just skim it.

Do you have something to say about any explanation Mastin has given in post 229 or not?

[ZazieR]

I was keeping track VERY closely for a DARN-good reason, Zaz (for a reason I won't reveal), and Kai was, indeed, the second-to-last to confirm, but Ort was the last. Third and fourth-last were Zwet and Budja. But that doesn't change the fact that Ort was last.

Well, this doesn't really answer my question why it's only used against Orto

I'm on it. Will check past games to see if it has happened somewhere that scum weren't allowed to talk pre-game. I can remember this was the case somewhere.

And can you explain what a MIT is?

I could've sworn I already went into further detail about this...

You did explain that it's scummy at the start of a game, but later in the game I thought you said it was pro-town. Not sure now anymore Will check later.

And stop responding to things aimed at Kai >.<
I mean it, or Rena will visit you and you'll be my victim before Misa Misa *shrug* will be my victim

[ZazieR]

Mastin, stop responding to questions aimed at others >.<

Ok, tell me how Kevin wasn't directing the vig, while he was still asking the vig or somebody else to kill you. Because he still mentioned the vig.

I can only be held accountable for the first five.

Yeah, I'm the one to blame for most things from pages 6 up to and including 9 >.<

I dislike Zaz's attacks on Zee. However, I do think they're a legitimate attempt at scum hunting. (Albeit I believe they're misguided)

I don't think it's misguided, so I'd like to hear your reasons why you think so.

[ZazieR]

My stupid makes me town?

If you were one of the Kiras (or capable of becoming one) then you'd be more familiar with that part of the rules, I think.

I disagree.

[ZazieR]

Mastin might be a jester. We should concentrate on lynching scum.

*anticipates dominating ABR*
*antiipates ABR's thoughts*
*anticipates hating comment towards Mastin's ego*

[ZazieR]

You disgree because of WIFOM? Or something else?

Circular logic bad. Looking at Phily's posts and analyse those good.

[ZazieR]

Phil, Zee's been contributing more great content than perhaps even me.

No.

I'm watching zazieR v. Zeenon with some interest.

Sounds like lurking to me.

Watching, without contributing to it.

mhmm. Will check some Post history soon.

[ZazieR]

Lamont_Cranston is an easy mislynch and I don't think he should be the focus of our attention today. Mastin applies to this as well. Of the three wagons so far (Lamont_Cranston, Mastin and magnus_orion) I don't find any of them to be the correct lynch and think it would be easy for scum to slip onto those wagons without drawing suspicion to them.

Vote: mykonian

'Too scummy to be scum' fallacy?

[ZazieR]

I don't find any of them to be the correct lynch and think it would be easy for scum to slip onto those wagons without drawing suspicion to them.

So, what? We're wagonning scum; does it matter if scum can slip in?

I don't think any of those wagons will flip scum, but I think scum are on the wagons. If I thought any of the wagons were scum I wouldn't say that they were not the correct lynch.

Lamont_Cranston - 5 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion, ortolan, Mastin, Starbuck)
Mastin - 4 (Lamont_Cranston, benmage, PhilyEc, zwetschenwasser)
magnus_orion - 3 (mykonian, Seraphim, ZEEnon)

So why Myko of all these players?

[ZazieR]

Vote: mykonian

1: You failed to state your case on Myk,

2: This is hypocritical, for you're starting a bandwagon on Myk, an easy wagon as well.

1. I already mentioned one point against him, which I guess you missed. I'll post my case on him before the day is over, and if my case contradicts the point in time my vote was placed on him, then you can call me out on it.

Why do you have troubles posting your case against Myko now?

[ZazieR]

I wish, Zee. I *think* that Ort's a member of my group, but because I was the ONLY one using the QT and wasn't informed of my partner's name, there's no way to be certain. <_<

If you are claiming scum, I want your role name please.
Why are you choosing to reveal this to us?
On a side note, why haven't you accepted my EM friend request?

Based upon Open 145, ZEEnon is not town.

IGMEOY

Sorry if this has been covered already (I am in mid-thread) but can you please cite the criteria within Open 145 that proves this?

The reason why he voted Mastin in the previous game and how he reacted to Mastin in that game. Mastin is doing the exact same things, yet ZEEnon doesn't see it as scummy in this game.

[ZazieR]

Two

Three factions are developing:

1) The Mastin Jackassery Fan Club
2) Logical Mafia Players
3) The Misa Misa haters

Fixed, as I'm not part of either 1 or 2 .

[ZazieR]

Also, Lamont:

Why ask for it if you're not trying to get a modkill?

This. Please answer.

And Mastin, it was not OMGUS in my eyes.

Zazier I like your playstyle.

I logged in with joy at an awesome, HUGE theme-game and within the first 30 minutes

ConsoM

Mastin with great Jackassery begins claiming all sorts of crap which immediately looks like an attempt to take advantage of his position as a neutral to abuse the game. I became very alarmed and wanted to make sure the Mod saw it and weighed in on it if necessary so I asked for a

Mod review

and a

votecount

.

Mastin, look what you have done! You're acting like Misa Misa
I'll get back to this post some other time. To see what was said earlier about this.
But you'll be very disappointed at the end if you like my playstyle

[ZazieR]

The speculation that Shinigami don't necessarily start with a Death Note stands out as potentially useful. I consider Zazier's #128 to be reinforcement of this being the case, and as such it should be noted by all.

That's all I have right now. It's 3am and this thread is violently rutting against my brain.

Eh? What has my post to do with all this?

Votecount
Lamont_Cranston - 5 (Kairyuu, magnus_orion, ortolan,

Mastin

, Starbuck)

Mastin

- 5 (Lamont_Cranston, benmage, zwetschenwasser, WeyounsLastClone)
magnus_orion - 2 (Seraphim, ZEEnon)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

semioldguy

)
benmage - 1 (Kmd4390)
ZEEnon - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Not voting:

cateraction

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage, Kise, Stephoscope, Spolium, mykonian, PhilyEc

Humans... are... INTERESTING!

With 26 alive, it's 14 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

@Zaz

Eh? What has my post to do with all this?

My mistake, upon the first read through I thought you were hinting at part of your role, i.e. you were aware of the presence of misa misa and you wanted to make the town aware of it.

- where did the image from your first post come from?
- are you misa misa y/n? BE HONEST.

No, I'm not positive that she's present. But Farside is part of the mods. She knows I'm perfect for Misa Misa, therefore made sure that Phate put her in it and deliberately gave it to somebody else It's a conspiracy!!!
Uhm, I have no idea where the image comes from. I found it on Google.
And no, I'm not Misa Misa. If/When she dies, I'll have a nice image for that player

[ZazieR]

Huh?

What?

[ZazieR]

Zwet wants you to use the bunny

I like bunny's friend more...

[ZazieR]

I was under the impression that Ray Penber would be a tracker of some sort.
I also didn't realize that roles would not be shown upon death.

Mastin - 5 (Lamont_Cranston, benmage, zwetschenwasser, WeyounsLastClone)

So basically we are starting in a 25 player game with some information to work with.

Mhmmm. Interesting.
Noted till this becomes important.

[ZazieR]

1) I like your Orto vote
2) I like youre initial attack on Mastin Jackassery
3) I disagree with your vote and analysis of Magnus but I can still see it ias pro-town scum hunting.

Could you elaborate on point 1?

[ZazieR]

You guys are making it very difficult to catch up to this game.

Mastin got shot (I'll comment on it when I get there) so only I am now left of those who were the blame of many pages >.<

[ZazieR]

It sure doesn't take ZazieR long to dig in someone's ass.. Good to see ya, sister. A lot of familiar faces in this game altogether. But I digress..

Uhm, thanks?
And yeah, it's good to see you too (except if you're Misa Misa )

I don't think anyone would be mod-killed for what Mastin did, even if he was telling the truth though.

What do you think of the Mastin wagon?

[ZazieR]

Oh, Mod is nice. I bet it's not Farside as she has set-up that huge conspiracy against me
It's probably Phate who has put Mastin's allingment into the VC.

[ZazieR]

Hey! Don't doubt the rabbit!! :/

Rabbit Doubt

, a mini theme starting soon.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Lamont_Cranston, mykonian, Starbuck)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, Kairyuu, Kmd4390, Benmage,

ZazieR

, magnus_orion, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

All this girl does is hug things.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

Do you have something to say about any explanation Mastin has given in post 229 or not?

Obviously not, otherwise I would have posted something.

Great to know. I'll get back to this soon.

[ZazieR]

The reason why he voted Mastin in the previous game and how he reacted to Mastin in that game. Mastin is doing the exact same things, yet ZEEnon doesn't see it as scummy in this game.

You completely ignored my explanation. Congrats.

Perhaps, but if I'm correct due to your post before this one, it's probably not the case.

[ZazieR]

I disagree. Selfvoting can be seen as scummy depending on the players involved. I've seen a self-vote in three games now. The first two, both the main discussers about the self-vote were town.

I think I know one.

Have you been stalking me
In the three games, you weren't present...

[ZazieR]

Myko, based upon the reactions towards Mastin while he was still alive, who would you see as suspicious?

[ZazieR]

I don't understand the case against Kise
Can somebody explain it to me?

[ZazieR]

I disagree. Selfvoting can be seen as scummy depending on the players involved. I've seen a self-vote in three games now. The first two, both the main discussers about the self-vote were town.

I think I know one.

Have you been stalking me
In the three games, you weren't present...

No, we were in mafia 91 and I did that, and was VT.

Then it was 4 times

[ZazieR]

@Kevin

Your punishment for both statements regarding me in post 407

And I liked Penber's fiance more

[ZazieR]

What makes you think he was a cop? There are at least 15 characters who fit as cop in Death Note.

QFT.

If you guys have read the book or watched the show, Raye is one of the first main characters to die. Our mod may be following the actual story line.

A thought occurs - what if the death notes can be used by day?

It seems reasonable to assume that since the town's objective is to destroy the death notes (

not

all the scum), the scum require death notes to perform kills and cannot do so without them. This disadvantage would necessitate a counterbalance, and IMO balance could be achieved through either:

1. 2-3 death notes attainable by scum
2. no restriction on the time at which death notes can be used
3. both of the above

So I'm not especially sure that a town-aligned vig was responsible for Mastin's death.

Why are you asking for a character claim already?

Zaz seems awfully preoccupied with Misa Misa. I didn't think she'd claim Misa but wanted a straight answer for the record.

At this moment, I see no reason to doubt that it was a vig. However, the thought was there that it wasn't the job of a vig, which is my reason for not commenting on it and hoping that nobody else would in case this is the truth.

I don't see how me being 'preoccupied' with Misa Misa would make me Misa Misa. Wouldn't that make me sooner somebody who wants to find her? So I don't see why you would ask if I was Misa Misa for your given reason.

[ZazieR]

Holy shit! How did you guys post that much in less than 24 hours?!?

I'm not even gonna pretend like I'm caught up. Hopefully I can read up later tonight.

-twitch-

Why is Mastin dead, and why isn't Lamont?

This time it wasn't completely my fault...

And there are some assumptions why Mastin was killed. I see two as most likely.

[ZazieR]

Have you anything to support this, or is it just speculation based on the source material?

Speculation based on my viewing of Death Note.

________________________________

ZazieR, it's really irritating when your responses to what I say are 'I'll get back to you' or something like that.
It's like you already choose me as your lynch target, but you need to form a case.

Or it means I'll get back to you later about it as I need to go back to some past posts of yours, while I'm also in other games. It's called in Dutch 'planning'.
Case is there, based upon posts you've already made, so you don't have to worry that there's no case .

[ZazieR]

I just realized that to use a death note, you need someone's name and face. So in this game, it's possible that the scum kill by knowing your name. I don't know about everyone else, but you won't be getting a name claim from me until this is proven to be false.

Hadn't thought about this yet *shrug*
So yes, I'm Misa Misa. I obv disgust myself. Looking at the mirror *shrug*
It just horrifies me >.<

Seriously though, it's something which can be a possibility, but if it's the case, how will the scum kill when they don't have a name?

As for the link, the mod asked to link instead of posting the image.

[ZazieR]

Case is there, based upon posts you've already made, so you don't have to worry that there's no case .

Your case exists entirely of my varying reaction to Mastin's self-vote.
I already explained that Kairyuu alluded to the fact that this is a regular habit of Mastin's,
while in Polygamist Mafia nobody mentioned that. You can go see for yourself whether or not that is the truth.

Mastin did. He even mentioned that two players could confirm this.
And I already told you my issue with the point you just mentioned about Kai.

[ZazieR]

At this moment, I see no reason to doubt that it was a vig. However, the thought was there that it wasn't the job of a vig, which is my reason for not commenting on it and hoping that nobody else would in case this is the truth.

One thought that came to mind was

I don't see how me being 'preoccupied' with Misa Misa would make me Misa Misa. Wouldn't that make me sooner somebody who wants to find her? So I don't see why you would ask if I was Misa Misa for your given reason.

Well, given that you caught my attention with your first post but it later turned out that you weren't looking for Misa Misa, the possibility of you being Misa was the next thing that crossed my mind.

Uhm, why did you quote the first part

[ZazieR]

EBWOP:

At this moment, I see no reason to doubt that it was a vig.

However, the thought was there that it wasn't the job of a vig, which is my reason for not commenting on it and hoping that nobody else would in case this is the truth.

One thought that came to mind was that scum did it to WIFOM up the town a bit. Mastin's play is so divisive that it would be relatively easy to argue for/against each group of players that interacted with him (we've already seen "take note of Mastin defenders" and "take note of Mastin wagoners" angles).

Can you further clarify the emboldened text from above? Why wouldn't you want others to point it out in the event that it was the truth?

Preview Edit:

Uhm, why did you quote the first part

I forgot to finish it before hitting post

Damn, I forgot the name of it when a killing role kills those who a vig would kill >.< And in this case, it totally confuses town.
I didn't want anybody to point it out as it would give the killer the impression that he's safe. If it's an anti-town killer, this would be useful for us as he wouldn't expect an attack at all. Now, he's 'warned'.

[ZazieR]

If that's how the death notes work then scum are going to have a hard time, no? It's a highly unlikely scenario.

A harder time than town will have destorying death notes?

It would be potentially impossible for scum to kill

anyone

if the town found no reason to NC, and even if some players did so, the scum target pool would be limited to that group. Even if NCs were taking place the town would likely become aware of this pattern within a couple of days. Scum would be at a marked disadvantage either way.

My point is that the game would not be balanced in the least if scum needed names to kill. It's good that there's enough collective familiarity with the manga/anime to make potentially useful observations but this one in particular is a null point I think.

Not entirely true...
First reason: Misa Misa *shrug* She still has many fanboys in her posession. They'd do anything to please her, even teling their names (and place of living obv as well >.<) This is why Misa Misa is dangerous and should be stopped
First serious reason: Investigation roles. The names of the characters are our role names. So it's likely that the scum have a role that can find out our rolenames.
Second serious reason: this

However, it's said in the rules that there could be no Kira's, so I think that the scum have a different way of killing, and that if they posess a Death Note, that they have another (extra?) killing method.

P.S. My Misa Misa reason was not serious, but she must still die!!!
RAWR

[ZazieR]

Due to post 428, I looked at Kise's posts in ISO. I noticed in this post that he mentions some players, but doesn't state who he sees as scummy eventhough he points two players out (ABR and Star).
In the posts after that, it's mainly speculation or discussing things with Lamont.
This is quite strange to me due to this comment of his:

It would be a good idea for mod's to never make you mafia, since you're always in the hotseat D1 it seems, lol. HOWEVER, because scum believe you are an easy D1 lynch, I've started to keep my eye on who's jumping on your wagon and try to make sense of their reason for voting you (if possible). They are likely the best candidates when it comes to making a suspect/scum list.

I'm really interested in your suspicions and why you haven't given any comments on the players who have voted Mastin.

[ZazieR]

Based upon post 430 I don't agree with Lamont's case.
Kise thought that Mastin was confirmed due to misunderstanding the rules. So I can understand why he'd look at other players, like those who were on this wagon.
The only thing I don't like about this, is that he hasn't shown anything that he did look at those players. But that was already said in my previous post.

[ZazieR]

And add Kise's ad hom attacks towards Lamont as well.
They seem to apply that because Lamont was wrong about Mastin (and about him in a different game) that he's a bad scumhunter. I don't like such logic. (Especially as nobody should trust my cases ever if this was true... )

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Lamont_Cranston, mykonian, Starbuck)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
mykonian - 1 (LlamaFluff)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Spolium, WeyounsLastClone

My motto is an eye for an eye.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

Actually, add this as well.
Kise, why did you ask this question now, and not when you were thinking that Mastin was confirmed due to his 'roleclaim'?

[ZazieR]

What/Which posts are given you these vibes?
Also, the last sentence of the first paragraph seems like a newbie defence for large games. Not liking that. Especially as you've played a large theme game before in which you didn't feel the need to point this out. So why's that?
And last, why did you only give a detailed version of your opinion for Lamont, and not for other players who already had posted?

I carefully reviewed the posts of the players who were most frequently accused of being scum (Lamont, Mastin, and magnus) and didn't find anything that caused alarm. I already explained Lamont. I wasn't exactly a fan of Mastin's style, but it seemed like he had pro-town motives and I'm not surprised he flipped town (although I need to read again, as I'm not exactly sure why he was apparently modkilled at the time I'm typing this). And I can't blame magnus for getting into it with Mastin, given the latter's playstyle, and didn't really see any cause for suspicion there.

I am absolutely not the type to go through a game and post thoughts on every single player--I have never done that, and you can go back through all my games and check if you feel like it. (I think informing all other players what you think about them can help the scum modify their behavior to stick around, but when bandwagons pop up, it's often time to speak up.) I only commented on the bandwagons that were going on, although perhaps it would have been more clear if I mentioned the specific players by name.

And, as for the one large theme game I was in before, that was my first game here, so I didn't have much to compare it to, and I don't remember it moving nearly this fast. This game is tough to keep up with on a busy weekend. I was killed off early in that large theme game, and hadn't played any since then until now, so hopefully it's clear why I made that comment.

Anyways, I need to do more reading, and will have more to share later--just wanted to respond as quickly as possible to the post that was addressed to me.

My point was that you thought Mastin, Magnus and Lamont were all town. Yet, you only explained why you thought this about Lamont, not about the other two. So why didn't you felt the need to point out why you thought Mastin and Magnus were town?

And actually, I didn't know you had played Prisoner's Dilemma II. I was talking about Nasubi large theme. Now that I know you've played 2 large theme games before this one, I really don't like the 'newbie defence'.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
Steph, this:

What/Which posts are given you these vibes?

Or did you give the answer to this in the first paragraph?

[ZazieR]

SOG, this

For clarification purposes, did you pick Myko randomly or not?

[ZazieR]

Nah, here's the rule that states you are not permitted to do most forms of claiming. Gelus pretty much does not want you to say what you are, NOR what you aren't in this game.

Rules and Information

• You may not use cryptoclaims, hypoclaims, prearranged ciphers, or any other concerted attempt to break the game.

Here's an article that can further explain what some of this means:
Crytoclaims[/url]

Not really.
This all comes down to that we shouldn't use codes and information you might have gotten in your PM. All those things could be used for loopholes, which can break the game. I haven't seen an example of crypto-claiming in a game yet, but:
Hypoclaim example
Code example
Using your PM for an advantage example (Yes, I'm guilty of that...)

If the code game example had succeeded, all of these games would have shown loopholes that helped the town. Though for one reason, scum won each example game >.<

[ZazieR]

Post 457

This post is really scummy.
Look at the post above this one, from Magnus. It criticises (or how you spell it >.<) the Kise wagon. The wagon Myko is part of. Yet, Myko does nothing to explain why it's a good wagon according to him.
Add that he also was a player who said to look at the Mastin voters, yet didn't do so.
This results into a scummy Myko.

[ZazieR]

I don't understand the case against Kise
Can somebody explain it to me?

Apparently hes been acting suspicious and that made him scum to 3 players, all voting consecutively. Its far too little substance to stand for a lynch in my eyes.

Mastin's death confirmed my theory that Deathnote's are being used. I'd say the people talking at the moment are in ownership of one and that Mastin has been killed. I doubt anyone wouldn't get involved in a game like this and just sit back then deathnote to be honest. I for one would talk, act suprised when Mastin died, even pissed off. Bitch about him perhaps.

Lamont, Zeenon, Benmage. You three exhibited these behaviours aye?

Those thinking it was a modkill, you dont have deathnotes, gratz! Anyone want to disagree? Perhaps a sudden death on my part will clear things up.

Circular logic bad. Looking at posts and analysing those good.

[ZazieR]

Based upon the speculation of the Mastin kill, I say we stop talking about it now.
What have we learned so far:
-It was either a vig or scum.
-It was either done due to a Death Note or just somebody who shot him.
Aka, we haven't learned anything yet other than somebody killed Mastin during the day.

I say that we'll discuss this further when we have more information as this is all just speculation. Let's hunt down

Misa Misa

scum

[ZazieR]

@Orto
Raye Penber

[ZazieR]

EBWOP

I was about to vote Kise but based on the above...ummm...hmmmmmm. Let me think about this.

Why?

[ZazieR]

It said he is "used by Light" in the TV show. Maybe he was town but could be potentially used by the mafia so acted the way he did deliberately to get killed? I dunno. Or maybe it's just his playstyle.

This was Mastin's playstyle
And he was used by Light to kill Raye's team members. Due to him, Light found out all the names of those investigating the Kira case.

[ZazieR]

Lamont, Zeenon, Benmage. You three exhibited these behaviours aye?

I was working on a post right before the kill happened.
You see evidence of that since I posted the next two posted extremely quickly.
Just because people were posting when it happened doesn't mean they are the ones that caused the death.
If your theory about death notes are correct, the player can probably choose the time it occurs.
Do you really think the death note user would post when their kill was supposed to occur? I think not.
I think that the chances are greater that it was a vigilante kill.
You seem to have a lot of inside knowledge.

Thats exactly the kinda stuff I'm looking for, thank you. Are you trying to say you were busy doing something else before the death occured? and that makes you innocent?
And yes I do think the death note user would post when their kill was suppost to occur. I doubt a vig did it. You've seen why. Why do you want to call off the idea of it being a deathnote user so much as well as yourself by WIFOMing? If one was to look at who was online at the time Gelus was I'm sure we'd have a far clearer picture. Unfortunately I wasnt around at the time

Gelus posts when I'm asleep, I'd assume the players from his zone are more likely since you want to bring up that type of timing. It looks like it happened mid-gameplay too due to time gaps between posts.

FoS Zeenon

I asked if you exhibited this action, you in turn brought out a series of defenses. Do you has a deathnote Zee?

Circular logic still bad.
And I don't like the last question you are asking ZEE.

[ZazieR]

Based upon post 430 I don't agree with Lamont's case.

Kise thought that Mastin was confirmed due to misunderstanding the rules. So I can understand why he'd look at other players, like those who were on this wagon.

The only thing I don't like about this, is that he hasn't shown anything that he did look at those players. But that was already said in my previous post.

Excellent point. Based on previous play with Kise:

Unvote

I am 99% doubting he would use that to cover his tracks here.

Can you elaborate on this?

[ZazieR]

It said he is "used by Light" in the TV show. Maybe he was town but could be potentially used by the mafia so acted the way he did deliberately to get killed? I dunno. Or maybe it's just his playstyle.

This was Mastin's playstyle

And he was used by Light to kill Raye's team members. Due to him, Light found out all the names of those investigating the Kira case

.

Can you please clarify this? Please tell me it didn't happen because of his death...

It's a long time I read this part of Death Note...
If I remember correctly, Light and Raye meet each other as Raye is the one who has to investigate his family (or only Light, can't remember). Then something happens in a bus. And in the end, Light gets the name of all 8 investigators and kills them all including Raye.

You can better ask somebody who remembers it better >.<

[ZazieR]

myk, why are you deathnote fishing in 219?

Hadn't seen this post yet. Thanks for pointing this out.

[ZazieR]

At this moment, I see no reason to doubt that it was a vig.

However, the thought was there that it wasn't the job of a vig, which is my reason for not commenting on it and hoping that nobody else would in case this is the truth.

One thought that came to mind was that scum did it to WIFOM up the town a bit. Mastin's play is so divisive that it would be relatively easy to argue for/against each group of players that interacted with him (we've already seen "take note of Mastin defenders" and "take note of Mastin wagoners" angles).

Can you further clarify the emboldened text from above? Why wouldn't you want others to point it out in the event that it was the truth?

I would say that she wouldn't want the truth pointed out because she may be the one who offed him?

Or this as I already said?

[ZazieR]

I will say right here and now that Orto has impressed me as a very good player (I have watched him in LAL Modded by Yos2) and besides I really like his avi.

Let us look at this Kise case because I am throughly conflicted. We have two ace players with conflicting views and me swayed by both of them:

Oh snapz... Mastin gets MK'd for going around the rules for real. Kai' knew what he was talking about when he said Mastin was obv-town, but we must start over.

Yes, people, it WAS a MK. Check out the mod-edits at the top of every page; Mastin's name is in green during the vote count because Gelus is signifying that he has HAD Mastin under review.

No day-vig-kills here. Otherwise, we'd have entered night phase, yeah? Now, let's move on.

You are an instigator;

A heckler, at best. You thought you found Mastin out as scum, but look(!), his name is green..

And your case against me is that I knew for sure that Mastin was town? Well, yeah, he tried to loophole his way into proving himself as a townie by claiming a bunch of roles. He wasn't MK'd up until that point, so it was evident to me that if he's not shinigami, cop, scum, tracker, doctor, mason, etc., then he was townie. That's my reason for believing Mastin as pro-town.

Now notice that this is WITHIN THE SAME POST! Would scum actually do this!? And use THAT kiind of crapologic IN THE SAME POST, INTENTIONALLY?? I think not. Oh wait, let me rephrase that: I think not.

Based upon post 430 I don't agree with Lamont's case.
Kise thought that Mastin was confirmed due to misunderstanding the rules. So I can understand why he'd look at other players, like those who were on this wagon.

I still hold this as the proper view.

I think both my case and Orto's case on Kise are

excellent

but Zaze points out a fatal flaw that I cannot overcome with either of our cases. I have meta to further indicate this but I can't bring it up because the game is ongoing.

Actually, I disagreed with your case against him for the already stated reason.
However, I pointed three things out which I see as scummy from Kise:
-That he said that those who were voting Mastin are good to look at, but not doing this.
-The ad hom attacks against you as they are saying that you have been wrong about some players before, and therefore you are wrong now.
-His mod question about roleclaiming after Mastin was killed, and not before he was killed.

[ZazieR]

Why are you responding to a case before the aimed player has responded?

[ZazieR]

Post 457

This post is really scummy.
Look at the post above this one, from Magnus. It criticises (or how you spell it >.<) the Kise wagon. The wagon Myko is part of. Yet, Myko does nothing to explain why it's a good wagon according to him.

Add that he also was a player who said to look at the Mastin voters, yet didn't do so.

This results into a scummy Myko.

that was obviously directed at the part where he explains it to Kise.

I don't get this explanation
I'm asking you why you didn't respond to this:

Not buying this kise wagon. Looks really fabricated. Kise's posts show a familiarity with mastin's playstyle. Therefore, being able to judge based on meta alone would be perfectly reasonable. This wagon stinks of opportunistic scum trying to take advantage of the sudden new development (and rock the mob opinion away from analyzing those on the wagon)

And what do you have to say about the bolded?

[ZazieR]

Why are you responding to a case before the aimed player has responded?

I usually don't do that as I like to let others scum hunt in peace. Kise is off my radar as of now.

That he's off your radar doesn't mean that he's off of mine. So I'd have liked to hear his response before yours.
But have you done this before? If so, link(s)?

[ZazieR]

Here is a lurk poster list:

Zwet(*)
Cater(*)
Jebus(*)
Tajo
Budja
Gorrad (to be replaced in 15 hours if he doesn't post)
ABR(*)
Semi
Seraph
Stepho
Llama
Wey

Some of these are hardcore lurking as indicated by a star (*).

May I ask on which you're basing that they are lurkers?

[ZazieR]

Why are you responding to a case before the aimed player has responded?

I usually don't do that as I like to let others scum hunt in peace. Kise is off my radar as of now.

That he's off your radar doesn't mean that he's off of mine. So I'd have liked to hear his response before yours.
But have you done this before? If so, link(s)?

Done what before? I'm no longer involved in the Kise case.

Responding to a case before the player at whom it is aimed has responded.

[ZazieR]

What do you mean "on which I'm basing"?

Well, you called those players lurkers. Why those? (aka which 'requirements' have they met that you call them lurkers)

[ZazieR]

Why did you ask Kai and Kevin for their reads?

[ZazieR]

I wouldn't rule out Kise and LC pairing still. LC was quick to unvote based on nothing other than Zazier requoting what his original reason for voting Kise was. It's that or mykonian. I'll stick with Kise I think. He did enough that was scummy independently of LC.

Vote: Kise

Also, what's your response to this Lamont?

[ZazieR]

I wouldn't rule out Kise and LC pairing still. LC was quick to unvote based on nothing other than Zazier requoting what his original reason for voting Kise was. It's that or mykonian. I'll stick with Kise I think. He did enough that was scummy independently of LC.

Vote: Kise

Also, what's your response to this Lamont?

I have explained that I can see his case of terrible inconsistency but I do not see scum being able to do that intentionally and it is within Kise's meta to act such.

I actually pointed this out as he mentioned that he wouldn't rule out a Lamont - Kise pairing. And because he states that your reason for unvoting was the same reason as you voted him for.
Those are the reasons why I quoted this post from Orto, so it would be nice to see some responses to that.

[ZazieR]

Also, I just realised that you're talking about a lot of Kise meta. How many games is this meta based upon, and which?

[ZazieR]

I thought exactly the same as myk when I saw Mastin's claim. A shinigami with a death-note would be very foolish to claim.

Why would a Shinigami with a deathnote be very foolish to claim, Budja?

scumslip. Really, it won't get more obvious.

unvote vote Spolium

Why is this a slip? (clarifiaction purposes, because if I think correctly what you mean, it's not)

[ZazieR]

Also, I just realised that you're talking about a lot of Kise meta. How many games is this meta based upon, and which?

It is based on one game that unfortunately ongoing (we are both dead). I have enough of a read of him in these two games to be certain of things about his level of play; i.e. this fits his meta.

Ok, I understand your unvote now.
However, meta that is based upon 1 game is not meta to me.

[ZazieR]

@orto. I asked Mastin if he had a deathnote, because of this reasoning:

Mastin is not a fool
Mastin claimed shinigami

shinigami could easily have a deathnote
claiming shinigami is practically a scumclaim.

because mastin is not a fool, he couldn't be hurt by the claim, and doesn't have a deathnote.

I ended the post with asking confirmation of my reasoning.

and I hoped, and think, that without Mastin, it is not that easy for scum to say that they can't read the posts, and just stay out of the thread.

@lamont. If I read you correctly, Kise more often doesn't understand the rules/plays a little weird, and it can't be that he uses it as an excuse for his mistake?

Bolded is unknown:

This game contains Shinigami. Shinigami are powerful, invincible neutral roles with unique win conditions. Shinigami cannot be lynched or killed. If they would be lynched, instead their rolename is revealed, they lose their Death Note if they possess one as per the rules above, and the game continues as normal (the day still ends). If they would be killed, the same is true except that their rolename is not revealed.

[ZazieR]

I look back on Kairyuu's #477 with concern, principally because he didn't consider the possibility of a specified cause of death (for the uninitiated, this is a heavily-used plot device in Death Note). I cannot fathom why a townie familiar with the Death Note story would dismiss that hypothesis and can only presume there is an ulterior motive.

vote: Kairyuu

Can you elaborate on this?

[ZazieR]

I thought exactly the same as myk when I saw Mastin's claim. A shinigami with a death-note would be very foolish to claim.

Why would a Shinigami with a deathnote be very foolish to claim, Budja?

scumslip. Really, it won't get more obvious.

unvote vote Spolium

Why is this a slip? (clarifiaction purposes, because if I think correctly what you mean, it's not)

It doesn't seem to me that he understands that we have to destroy deathnotes, and if he was town, he would know that was his wincondition.

Thought so already.
If this hasn't been mentioned before this post, you're definitly wrong.
If it has been mentioned before this page, you might be right, but I won't vote him for it.

[ZazieR]

@orto. I asked Mastin if he had a deathnote, because of this reasoning:

Mastin is not a fool
Mastin claimed shinigami

shinigami could easily have a deathnote
claiming shinigami is practically a scumclaim.

because mastin is not a fool, he couldn't be hurt by the claim, and doesn't have a deathnote.

I ended the post with asking confirmation of my reasoning.

and I hoped, and think, that without Mastin, it is not that easy for scum to say that they can't read the posts, and just stay out of the thread.

@lamont. If I read you correctly, Kise more often doesn't understand the rules/plays a little weird, and it can't be that he uses it as an excuse for his mistake?

Bolded is unknown:

This game contains Shinigami. Shinigami are powerful, invincible neutral roles with unique win conditions. Shinigami cannot be lynched or killed. If they would be lynched, instead their rolename is revealed, they lose their Death Note if they possess one as per the rules above, and the game continues as normal (the day still ends). If they would be killed, the same is true except that their rolename is not revealed.

based on the story, it wouldn't be weird that they would have a deathnote.

I don't remember all the names of the shinigami, but Misa's shinigami had given its Death Note to Misa, and that duck-like shinigami hadn't one as he came to the real world to look for its.
So not every shinigami had one.

[ZazieR]

? I don't understand you...

this

[ZazieR]

-His mod question about roleclaiming after Mastin was killed, and not before he was killed.

Why was this scummy? I don't quite understand?

Quoted so that I can answer this after I've had a response from Kise.

[ZazieR]

Oh I see. Mastin and Zazie.

Also, why is the majority not voting?

FOS people not voting.

>.<

And I'm not voting as I'm waiting for Kise's responses.
It will come down to one of them, and when I have his responses, I'll state for the both why. And vote who the most suspicious is to me.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP >.<
Them = Kise and ZEE

[ZazieR]

First reason: Misa Misa *shrug* She still has many fanboys in her posession. They'd do anything to please her, even teling their names (and place of living obv as well >.<) This is why Misa Misa is dangerous and should be stopped

She always has shinigami eyes! -.- Don't you think that would let her see names far easier?

It indeed is far easier. However, there are three reasons why she doesn't do this:
1. She gains pleasure from abusing her fans.
2. Due to her shinigami eyes, she found her boyfriend. She sees this as a sign of love.
3. We're talking about Misa Misa >.< As if she would ever come up with this reason.

[ZazieR]

Zee gets town points because you're hella crazy to buddy up to Mastin unless you actually believe what you're saying.

If you're talking about his stance towards Mastin's claim, yes, what he wrote was exactly what he meant. He believed it.

I have no idea what to make of Zazier's post 128.

See my first post in the sign-up topic. It's based upon that.

Lamont has a good point about Kai finding Mastin obvscum. I, too, felt he was buddying very strongly. The point is equally valid on myk and kise, Lamont is growing more town in my eyes. Maybe Mastin really did rub him the wrong way. But there are other alighments so I don't know. IGMEOY

Eh? Didn't Kai think Mastin was obvtown? So I think you meant to say that.
Anyway, why is ZEE not included in this list as buddy upper?

[ZazieR]

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

Clearly this game has 3 factions: Anti-Kira (Town), Kira (Mafi) & Shingami (Neutrals). So to restate:

Is there

any

reason to believe (from actual series examples) that Kira would start out with death notes?

Well, I think that scum at least have one Death Note. How else can they be pro-Kira when there's no Kira?
And yes, the real Kira found a Death Note right at the start of the serie. The others came later.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP >.<
Them = Kise and ZEE

You is smart in the head.

Is this you mocking me as I forgot to include who 'them' were in the first post, or you agreeing with me?
Also, the above post proves that I'm not Misa Misa, as nobody can say that about Misa Misa XD

[ZazieR]

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

Clearly this game has 3 factions: Anti-Kira (Town), Kira (Mafi) & Shingami (Neutrals). So to restate:

Is there

any

reason to believe (from actual series examples) that Kira would start out with death notes?

Well, I think that scum at least have one Death Note. How else can they be pro-Kira when there's no Kira?
And yes, the real Kira found a Death Note right at the start of the serie. The others came later.

Ok then I seriously want to know how

Kai

could of missed this. What do you think about my questions concerning specifying kill methods for notes?

Can you direct me to it for now? I'm still updating the last posts.

[ZazieR]

I find it unlikely that Mastin's death was deathnote related as he was shot. This would require control of the shooter which while possible seems much less likely than an ordinary kill.

Ok:

1) On the examples in the series of a death note being used to simulate a specific kill method, is

control

of a person required to bring about the death type specified?

2) Could a shooting kill type be specified

without

having to control an actual gunman?

>.< Stupid simulpost >.<
Uhm, if I remember correctly, you just have to write down that your victim gets shot. If you'd do that, he'd just be shot by somebody who'd be at the place and time you wrote down.
Does this answer your questions? If not, could you rephrase them?

[ZazieR]

May I see how I voted for Kise, based on a reasoning where I was included? I thought we voted Kise because he thought Mastin town, while I thought a long time Mastin was shinigami without a deathnote.

Uhm, no. That was not the reason why Kise was voted, just part of it.
But if you thought this was the reason why didn't you state any suspicions towards those players who saw Mastin as town besides Kise?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP:

The flavour also supports this; the story itself kicks off when one of the Shinigami drops his death note in the human world, allowing a human to pick it up and start using it. A second death note arrives in human hands due to a second Shinigami (who, incidently, falls in love - unrequited love - with the girl who she gives her).

This thought just came to me - Zwet has claimed one-sided lover/tracker. This seems to fit [url=http://[POSSIBLEtinyurlSPAM].com/shinigami-rem]Rem the Shinigami[/url] much better than Raye Penber's fiance. Thoughts?

I'm not sure what to think of Zwet's claim yet as I'm not there with my analysis yet >.<
However, what zwet claimed was that if he dies that Mastin would have died as well. This makes sense for Penber's fiancee, as he didn't want her to investigate the Kira case for her safety. And when he died, she went to investigate. So based upon flavour, it makes sense.

[ZazieR]

Also, Lamont (snip) Seriously, stop posting four times in a row or just what randomly pops up in your head. This thread gets enough posts as it is each day.

XD
I'm surprised I didn't get mentioned for this.

[ZazieR]

Also, Lamont (snip) Seriously, stop posting four times in a row or just what randomly pops up in your head. This thread gets enough posts as it is each day.

XD
I'm surprised I didn't get mentioned for this.

Y-you just did it again.. O.O

In games with me, you should get used to this
(And you're sometimes the blame for this so don't accuse me )

[ZazieR]

I'd also like to throw out (to see what people think) the possibility of a mass flavor-claim. When I ran the Death Note MINI, I had trouble finding enough protown roles. I imagine this mod may have had similar issues.

Can you elaborate on what you mean with mass flavor-claim?
Are you talking about names or something else?

[ZazieR]

ok, already two that seem to have much more feeling for zazie.

At what things I should pay attention when reading her? (what do you think makes her so obvious town?)

Eh?
Why do you want to look for the things in my posts that gives those players a pro-town feeling about me, instead of searching for things that gives you a scummy feeling in either my posts or somebody elses?

[ZazieR]

Prod received, I've been actively trying to catch up (currently page 19/26)

Be posting in a little bit...

Gorrad

, did you receive a prod?

[ZazieR]

FYI, I was a one sided lover with Mastin, though I only knew his rolename, not his identity. Because of his death I have gained the power to track people at night.

Ok, I saw that you already stated your reason for claiming. So I'll only ask why you didn't soft-claim by stating that you think he was a tracker, or something like that?
Second question, did you already know that he was your lover at the start of this game?
Third, how did you learn you became a tracker?
And last but not least, since when do you remember to whom you are paired >.<?

[ZazieR]

@Kevin and ZEE

Why did/do both of you think that zwet is lying?

[ZazieR]

Duh, that is what everyone was asking himself. But

2/3 of the shinigami we know had a deathnote

, but still, Spolium can't see how the claim endangered Mastin.

Sorry I'm at work but you know this how!??

I can't research right now to se if I'm missing something obvious; i got phone calls...

I'm going to have to vote you if there isn't a good reason. Sorry if I am misunderstanding this.

As far as I know, there were 3 death gods in the story. 2 of them had death notes, 1 was looking for his/hers. Just to say that the story points at the fact that death-gods have likely a deathnote. (that was the point of his reasoning that I tried to discuss)

Well, this was the case in the serie:
The first shinigami had actually two Death Notes. His own, and the one he 'got'. One of these was given to Light.
Later, came the second shinigami into the game. However, she also had two Death Notes. One was given to Misa Misa *shrug*, the second she kept herself.
Last was Ducky, who came to the human world to search for his.
So if this game follows this line, the scum have in total two, two shinigami's have a death note each and the last shinigami is searching for his.

However, there were other shinigami's mentioned as well, though all those didn't play a big part.

[ZazieR]

BTW, you guys are saying zwet made up this fakeclaim? He is a bit late (or early) with his claim, but I don't think that we should lynch him. He would be a tracker (=helpful), and the theme supports it. We should at least try to get results out of him.

But does he read scum for you?

Why, if that is the case, would you willingly not vote for him?

Well, what do you think?

[ZazieR]

myk's 675 is almost all information instead of analysis.

myk's 675 is almost all things that myk didn't like in the play of others. But myk understands that directing the vig can hardly be called a scumtell, when the majority of the players does it

Agreeing with Orto (That's new O.o)
You state what has happened, with barely your thoughts about it and no reasons stated why.

[ZazieR]

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

what is scum?

the deathnotes should come from the shinigami, seen the story. So if you include shinigami with scum, then yes, I believe that would be true.

You don't think that any of the human characters have one now?
Why do you think this?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP:

The flavour also supports this; the story itself kicks off when one of the Shinigami drops his death note in the human world, allowing a human to pick it up and start using it. A second death note arrives in human hands due to a second Shinigami (who, incidently, falls in love - unrequited love - with the girl who she gives her).

This thought just came to me - Zwet has claimed one-sided lover/tracker. This seems to fit [url=http://[POSSIBLEtinyurlSPAM].com/shinigami-rem]Rem the Shinigami[/url] much better than Raye Penber's fiance. Thoughts?

I don't see how Zwet's real identity (if he's lying) would have anything to do with his fake-claim. I also don't see a connection bewteen Rem & Penber.

I see no purpose for his claim whatsoever and knowing something of his meta, he is probably lying but usually when he does these claim things he thinks he is fooling people into a certain type of action. Maybe he's rolefishing?

Spolium meant something else with his Rem comment, if he's thinking what I'm thinking he's thinking.
Anyway, Zwet's role seems to be true based upon flavour. But I'm not sure yet on allignment, which is why I asked him some questions.

[ZazieR]

@Kai

My questions I've asked you:

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

Why is Mastin obv town?

@Lamont: Back off. Now. You do not want to press the ad hom further. Trust me.

I love your wiki by the way. It fails to apply at all to actual strong scumtells. Not to mention the fact that you would be hard pressed to avoid your own lynch if you tried to push lynches based solely on those criteria.

Also, what's your point about the wiki stuff in this quote? Do you see it as a tell, and why?
(New question: Are you warning Lamont in this quote? And if so, why?)

[ZazieR]

@Myko

My question I've asked:

OK, kai and Mastin seem town on page 4. Magnus is looking like active, but antitown scum, looking for a good place for his vote.

Can you explain how you got these reads?

You've explained Mastin, but I don't think you've explained the other two. Could you do so?
Also, regarding the above quote, I'd like you to explain the following post:

May I see how I voted for Kise, based on a reasoning where I was included? I thought we voted Kise because he thought Mastin town,

while I thought a long time Mastin was shinigami without a deathnote

And last but not least. Here, you state that Kise still has a good second place. So how come you're not voting him now?

[ZazieR]

@Semi

My questions I've asked:

Lamont_Cranston is an easy mislynch and I don't think he should be the focus of our attention today. Mastin applies to this as well. Of the three wagons so far (Lamont_Cranston, Mastin and magnus_orion) I don't find any of them to be the correct lynch and think it would be easy for scum to slip onto those wagons without drawing suspicion to them.

Vote: mykonian

'Too scummy to be scum' fallacy?

(Though after checking the quote again, it should actually say: 'why do you think they are easy wagons, and how come that makes them not scum to you?')

For clarification purposes, did you pick Myko randomly or not?

(Though you haven't been online to see this question for clarification yet, I just state it here)

[ZazieR]

@Kevin and ZEE

Why did/do both of you think that zwet is lying?

Just seems to be. And he's Zwet, so he's lying until proven otherwise.

But don't you think it fits the flavour of the serie?

Well, this was the case in the serie:
The first shinigami had actually two Death Notes. His own, and the one he 'got'. One of these was given to Light.
Later, came the second shinigami into the game. However, she also had two Death Notes. One was given to Misa Misa *shrug*, the second she kept herself.
Last was Ducky, who came to the human world to search for his.
So if this game follows this line, the scum have in total two, two shinigami's have a death note each and the last shinigami is searching for his.

However, there were other shinigami's mentioned as well, though all those didn't play a big part.

What? They only had one Note each, not two.

Nope. Ryuk had his own and the one from some other shinigami.
Rem had her own and the one from Gelus.

[ZazieR]

@Kevin and ZEE

Why did/do both of you think that zwet is lying?

Just seems to be. And he's Zwet, so he's lying until proven otherwise.

But don't you think it fits the flavour of the serie?

Not sure.

Nope. Ryuk had his own and the one from some other shinigami.
Rem had her own and the one from Gelus.

Ok, never knew that..

I'm positive about Rem, and Ryuk was stated at the start that he got two if I'm correct. That's why he didn't care to drop one.
But I'm not sure what happened to each of the Death Notes in the end...

[ZazieR]

May I see how I voted for Kise, based on a reasoning where I was included? I thought we voted Kise because he thought Mastin town, while I thought a long time Mastin was shinigami without a deathnote.

Uhm, no. That was not the reason why Kise was voted, just part of it.
But if you thought this was the reason why didn't you state any suspicions towards those players who saw Mastin as town besides Kise?

because apart from Kai, nobody was really convinced he was.

and nobody reasoned from the assumption that mastin was town, to find scum.

I'll get to this when you've answered the bit you didn't explain:

OK, kai and Mastin seem town on page 4. Magnus is looking like active, but antitown scum, looking for a good place for his vote.

Also, regarding the above quote, I'd like you to explain the following post:

May I see how I voted for Kise, based on a reasoning where I was included? I thought we voted Kise because he thought Mastin town,

while I thought a long time Mastin was shinigami without a deathnote

[ZazieR]

@Myko

My question I've asked:

OK, kai and Mastin seem town on page 4. Magnus is looking like active, but antitown scum, looking for a good place for his vote.

Can you explain how you got these reads?

You've explained Mastin, but I don't think you've explained the other two. Could you do so?

no, mostly gut reads. Not a lot logic there.

Gut reads are most of the time based upon vibes. So what gave these gut reads?

Also, regarding the above quote, I'd like you to explain the following post:

May I see how I voted for Kise, based on a reasoning where I was included? I thought we voted Kise because he thought Mastin town,

while I thought a long time Mastin was shinigami without a deathnote

And last but not least. Here, you state that Kise still has a good second place. So how come you're not voting him now?

because LC has said in a nice way that Kise can be playing bad/weird. And that he would never make such an excuse (misunderstanding the lies) on purpose.

However, Lamont stated this based upon one game in which he has played with Kise.
Also, did you check if this was the case in that game, or are you trusting Lamont on this?

[ZazieR]

Fuck. Accidentally sent this post to mod-edited-votecount oblivion. Sorry.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Starbuck, ortolan, mykonian)
zwetschenwasser - 3 (populartajo, Kise, Albert B. Rampage)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

)
Kairyuu - 2 (Spolium, Lamont_Cranston)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
ZEEnon - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc

Director, I have a boyfriend, so can we cut out the love scenes?

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

I'm so glad that Magnus hasn't explained his reasons for voting Lamont yet. I was just checking his post history to see if I might be mistaken, and then I found this little gem:

What makes you suspect lamount?

What makes you suspect Lamount more than me?

Odd, even if a player dislikes my playstyle due to their own, I'd think that if it's similar, they'd only begin to like it. (Unless they're of an opposite alignment)

1: Death Note-->Scum.

So why are you not voting me?

2: Suspicions-->Accusations of a person being scum. This seems hypocritical with your earlier line of not knowing who the scum are at this point in time.

I do happen to have an idea. I just don't have my normal level of conviction yet. If you didn't respond to the bits of my post rather than the post as a whole, you'd understand that.

I suspect you are a shinigami who has a death note. This is because you talked about losing death notes being detrimental to the shinigami win condition, which I don't think you'd have thought that upon reading those rules.
I suspect lamont of being scum.

Neutral < scum
therefore I'm voting the scum one.

I'm refusing to give my reasons until I hear what lamont has to say about why he thinks I'm voting him. I theorize the reason he was extremely vague was because he didn't want to point out something different to give me additional evidence.

@Myko

Why did you not point this out?

[ZazieR]

However, unless someone here is a Kira WITH a death note, then that's the only way they can be certain that Kira DO start off with death notes.

FoS

@ whoever it was that sounded so certain that Kira start off with death notes.

I think there's at least one Kira out there, as Kira is a character with a Death Note. So in order to be pro-Kira and anti-Kira, there should be a Kira.
Also, flavour from the serie supports that there's at least one Kira already.

[ZazieR]

that last post, to who was it made?

I'm trusting Lamont. Because even when he is not completely right, to come with such an incredible story as Kise did would need some great scumplay. It is too unbelievable to be a lie.

and zaz, I think I explained why I thought Mastin didn't have a deathnote. I believed his claim, and thinking that deathnotes give power, I assumed he would have one, so that a lynch couldn't hurt him, giving him a way to play this way.

The quote was from Magnus, but I want you to answer the question at the bottom. That's why I bolded '@Myko'.
And I think you misunderstood my question. You first said that Mastin was town, but later you state that you thought that he was a shinigami without a deathnote. So which is it?

[ZazieR]

zwet: did you know Mastin was town before he died? and when did you find out he had been a tracker?

I agree that it was probably unnecessary/undesirable for you to claim

Nobody believed my fakeclaim...

Are you saying now that you fake-claimed about being a one-sided lover and such?
If so, why?

[ZazieR]

Actually, I'm not buying that you fake-claimed, zwet.

[ZazieR]

And actually a counter claim would let us know Zwet or X is scum. This is something I'd reveal if someone lied about being me. Finds us scum afterall.

Not necessarily. He could be lying as town. And did he actually claim his character or was this assumed.

It was assumed, as he claimed to have information about Raye.

[ZazieR]

Kise, two questions:
-For clarification, did you or did you not think that Mastin was a shinigami?
-Why do you think Zwet would want to make himself a target?

[ZazieR]

Also, Kise, I'll repeat Myko's question as I'm interested to hear that answer as well:

when did we learn what kind of scum zwet is?

[ZazieR]

FYI, I was a one sided lover with Mastin, though I only knew his rolename, not his identity. Because of his death I have gained the power to track people at night.

People were speculating as to whether or not mastin was a tracker. I'm confirming he was

Nobody believed my fakeclaim...

This resoning progress doesnt feel right. In the first two posts, zwet is pretty much sure of his claim. But when asked, he quickly backs it off. Now, if he fakeclaimed he did it for a reason (Medieval Mafia is an example of this) but which is the reason here when he backs it off when he gets a little pressure_? It just doesnt feel zwettown.

Interesting.
Time to check Medieval.

[ZazieR]

I already searched for some information there, but something that is likely to be useful for in this game, is not present (as far as I know) in the rules above:

One of the eyecatch rules of the Shinigami Realm states that only 6 Death Notes can exist in the human realm at any one time.

So, based upon this, there will probably be 1-6 Death Notes present.
More likely is 4-6, based upon the Death Notes that appeared in the serie.

[ZazieR]

More stuff on myk

He assumes in a post that Mastin is town, before that was known, and attacks players from that position. When questioned, he claims that that rule makes that Mastin must be town, because he isn't modkilled. Kise seems to be one of very few people (1, as I count) that misunderstood that rule that way. It is just a weak excuse for his mistake.

I quite often call people town and play to my read. I will defend them, call them town, and base theories on other players alignments from what I have descerned. Acting like you know someone is town isnt a bad thing.

sure. It was early, and there was no reason to

assume

him town.

Oh. Oh. Aha.
I'm pretty certain you called Mastin town at the start of this game. Explain this stance.

[ZazieR]

Vote: Zwet

No surprises here. I think we will be doing the scum a huge disfavor by lynching zwet no matter what his alignment.

I disagree. I'll explain later after I've heard the answer to this question:

@All Zwet voters and those who suspect him

Do you think he's a shinigami or pro-Kira?

[ZazieR]

It should be noted that since some shinigami are probably in posession of a death note, until they are lynched they are, for all intents and purposes, as far as we know, serial killers, who

must

be eliminated as per the town win condition. (only difference is they lose their "serial killer" status, as opposed to dying)
I think that there's been some trouble understanding that.

What makes you suspect lamount?

What makes you suspect Lamount more than me?

Odd, even if a player dislikes my playstyle due to their own, I'd think that if it's similar, they'd only begin to like it. (Unless they're of an opposite alignment)

1: Death Note-->Scum.

So why are you not voting me?

2: Suspicions-->Accusations of a person being scum. This seems hypocritical with your earlier line of not knowing who the scum are at this point in time.

I do happen to have an idea. I just don't have my normal level of conviction yet. If you didn't respond to the bits of my post rather than the post as a whole, you'd understand that.

I suspect you are a shinigami who has a death note. This is because you talked about losing death notes being detrimental to the shinigami win condition, which I don't think you'd have thought that upon reading those rules.
I suspect lamont of being scum.

Neutral < scum
therefore I'm voting the scum one.

I'm refusing to give my reasons until I hear what lamont has to say about why he thinks I'm voting him. I theorize the reason he was extremely vague was because he didn't want to point out something different to give me additional evidence.

ORLY?
Explain these two quotes.

[ZazieR]

Mhmmm

Vote Magnus_orion

[ZazieR]

No, you said that Mastin seemed town. Yet, you later state that you thought he was a shinigami without a death note. This is confirmed in the above post as you said 'always'. So why would you say that he seemed town, instead of that he seemed a shinigami without a Death Note, or something like that?

And can you also answer the question I asked you regarding Magnus quote?

[ZazieR]

I'm so glad that Magnus hasn't explained his reasons for voting Lamont yet. I was just checking his post history to see if I might be mistaken, and then I found this little gem:

What makes you suspect lamount?

What makes you suspect Lamount more than me?

Odd, even if a player dislikes my playstyle due to their own, I'd think that if it's similar, they'd only begin to like it. (Unless they're of an opposite alignment)

1: Death Note-->Scum.

So why are you not voting me?

2: Suspicions-->Accusations of a person being scum. This seems hypocritical with your earlier line of not knowing who the scum are at this point in time.

I do happen to have an idea. I just don't have my normal level of conviction yet. If you didn't respond to the bits of my post rather than the post as a whole, you'd understand that.

I suspect you are a shinigami who has a death note. This is because you talked about losing death notes being detrimental to the shinigami win condition, which I don't think you'd have thought that upon reading those rules.
I suspect lamont of being scum.

Neutral < scum
therefore I'm voting the scum one.

I'm refusing to give my reasons until I hear what lamont has to say about why he thinks I'm voting him. I theorize the reason he was extremely vague was because he didn't want to point out something different to give me additional evidence.

@Myko

Why did you not point this out?

This question^^

[ZazieR]

link
Though I don't see the reason why you need that
But as you need it, I guess you have no problems with that quote.

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Starbuck, ortolan, mykonian)
zwetschenwasser - 3 (populartajo, Kise, Albert B. Rampage)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

)
Kairyuu - 2 (Spolium, Lamont_Cranston)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
ZEEnon - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
magnus_orion - 1 (

ZazieR

)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Benmage, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc

What if, hypothetically, I had the power to kill using only a person's face and name...Would I use the power to punish criminals? Certainly the world would be better without certain people. But I don't think I would go so far as to become a murderer myself to improe the world.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

I'm here replacing Budja and catching up. Big Death Note fan. First impressions--god, that guy who committed career suicide on page one is annoying. And was zwet bullshitting or not about his roleclaim? If so, I rather hope he gets beaned with an apple.

Hey MBL, what do you think of Misa Misa?

[ZazieR]

What makes you suspect lamount?

What makes you suspect Lamount more than me?

Odd, even if a player dislikes my playstyle due to their own, I'd think that if it's similar, they'd only begin to like it. (Unless they're of an opposite alignment)

1: Death Note-->Scum.

So why are you not voting me?

2: Suspicions-->Accusations of a person being scum. This seems hypocritical with your earlier line of not knowing who the scum are at this point in time.

I do happen to have an idea. I just don't have my normal level of conviction yet. If you didn't respond to the bits of my post rather than the post as a whole, you'd understand that.

I suspect you are a shinigami who has a death note.

This is because you talked about losing death notes being detrimental to the shinigami win condition, which I don't think you'd have thought that upon reading those rules.
I suspect lamont of being scum.

Neutral < scum

therefore I'm voting the scum one.

I'm refusing to give my reasons until I hear what lamont has to say about why he thinks I'm voting him. I theorize the reason he was extremely vague was because he didn't want to point out something different to give me additional evidence.

Bolded what I was talking about.
This was a huge point against Spolium. It even made you vote him. Yet, you did not state anything against Magnus, while he did the same.
Why is this?

[ZazieR]

I don't get what he tries to say with "Neutral < scum"

but what I thought wrong with spolium was that he didn't want to go someone who was likely to have a deathnote, and here, if I read correctly, Magnus tries to deduce that mastin has a note.

wait, but he was on Lamont then?

I missed it, sorry. Big point against Magnus.

He's saying that he rather lynches scum than a nuetral, while stating that he thinks that the neutral has a Death Note.
But I'm more interested in hearing why you didn't vote him.

[ZazieR]

@zaz: let me read please. I have voted Magnus earlier, and I want to see what the points were for unvoting him. In a few hours I should have enough time.

I thought exactly the same as myk when I saw Mastin's claim. A shinigami with a death-note would be very foolish to claim.

Why would a Shinigami with a deathnote be very foolish to claim, Budja?

scumslip. Really, it won't get more obvious.

unvote vote Spolium

[ZazieR]

I hadn't unvoted spolium before, I thought?

So, I have had more opinions about Magnus, but I don't feel like looking them up now.

but if it makes you happy:

unvote vote Magnus

, then I'll unvote in case needed tonight.

My point with the quote in which you vote Spolium, is that you said it couldn't get more obvious.
Yet, you didn't point this out when Magnus did it, you couldn't find it when I showed you that Magnus did the same and now it's not that obvious anymore as you need to look back for the things on Magnus.
I really get the impression that you're faking it all.

[ZazieR]

It should be noted that since some shinigami are probably in posession of a death note, until they are lynched they are, for all intents and purposes, as far as we know, serial killers, who

must

be eliminated as per the town win condition. (only difference is they lose their "serial killer" status, as opposed to dying)
I think that there's been some trouble understanding that.

What makes you suspect lamount?

What makes you suspect Lamount more than me?

Odd, even if a player dislikes my playstyle due to their own, I'd think that if it's similar, they'd only begin to like it. (Unless they're of an opposite alignment)

1: Death Note-->Scum.

So why are you not voting me?

2: Suspicions-->Accusations of a person being scum. This seems hypocritical with your earlier line of not knowing who the scum are at this point in time.

I do happen to have an idea. I just don't have my normal level of conviction yet. If you didn't respond to the bits of my post rather than the post as a whole, you'd understand that.

I suspect you are a shinigami who has a death note. This is because you talked about losing death notes being detrimental to the shinigami win condition, which I don't think you'd have thought that upon reading those rules.
I suspect lamont of being scum.

Neutral < scum
therefore I'm voting the scum one.

I'm refusing to give my reasons until I hear what lamont has to say about why he thinks I'm voting him. I theorize the reason he was extremely vague was because he didn't want to point out something different to give me additional evidence.

ORLY?
Explain these two quotes.

I don't see how they are mutually exclusive.
The rules state that shinigami are neutral, so that's the word I used.
Lynching mafia is better than lynching neutrals, since mafia have a greater chance to win, since the serial killer (normally) has to be the only one alive to win. Mafia just need a majority (normally). So lynching mafia reduces the greatest threat of an anti-town faction winning that we are aware of (normally, of course).
While this is all true, it should be noted that this game is not necessarily normal, and the mafia might have a different win condition, like the town does. However since we have no way of knowing we should assume that they have their normal win conditions, considering that if they outnumber the town, they have control of the lynch.

First of all, I don't think that the pro-Kira's have the same wincon as normal scum. I could give the detailed reason, but I think Phate would prefer it if I'd give as reason:
It's a Phables game .
Anyway, the above makes perfect sense, except that you rather had Mastin killed by a vig then Lamont. Surely, this reinforces your statement that you rather have scum dead than a neutral[/sarcasm]

[ZazieR]

~Zazier

Could you give an abridged version of your case on Magnus please? I think the people not following what you're thinking (incl myself) would like some insight into why Magnus is vote worthy by someone generally accepted as ObvTown.

Either capital 'R', or leave it out >.<
-Very active lurking. Especially after Mastin got killed. Before that, he was mostly defending himself against Mastin's attacks.
-Not thinking about the town wincon, as he rather lynched a possible scum, than someone he saw as shinigami with Death Note.
-Very dodgy about his Lamont suspicions. (I didn't even know that he had told them >.<)
-OMG. That I missed that

Yes. But he claims to have a death note. As per the rules, we must gain and destroy all death notes, and vigging him forces shinigami to drop death note as per the rules.

My case^^

I'll try to bring up my points against ZEE and Myko today as well.

[ZazieR]

I want to be a leader, not a follower

Unvote
Vote: mykonian

I don't understand this post (the first sentence)

[ZazieR]

Vote: Zwet

No surprises here. I think we will be doing the scum a huge disfavor by lynching zwet no matter what his alignment.

I disagree. I'll explain later after I've heard the answer to this question:

@All Zwet voters and those who suspect him

Do you think he's a shinigami or pro-Kira?

This question still stands.

[ZazieR]

Yes. But he claims to have a death note.

As per the rules, we must gain and destroy all death notes

, and vigging him forces shinigami to drop death note as per the rules.

Are you claiming this is not pro-town, Zazie?
I'm confused.

Lynching is useful because we can see how people interact when voting on the lynch. Since scum have interactions, while sks do not, lynching scum is better.
It doesn't change the fact that Sks have to be eliminated. Scum hold a higher priority for the lynch is all. I'd rather not waste the lynch when a vig can do the job. Vigging scum and lynching an sk, while good, is a wasted opportunity, since, if done the other way around, we could have studied the reactions on the wagon and have a better chance of finding scum. And of course, there is also the matter I've already explained about mafia being closer than sks to winning.

Also, you claim I'm "active lurking", but I'm waiting on lamont to answer my questions.

I bolded why I think it should be pointed out and why I think that the quote shows that you're not anti-Kira.
The only thing why it's bad to lynch scum in this set-up is because of this rule and why it's bad to vig possible shinigami's:

In this game, it is possible to obtain a Death Note in several ways. If a player possessing a Death Note is lynched, a random member of the lynch mob receives the Death Note. If a player possessing a Death Note is killed, the killer (if there are multiple killers, one is chosen at random) receives the Death Note

As you've pointed out the rules a few times now, I have trouble believing you didn't know about this rule.

And that active lurking defence is bad, as you asked one question towards Lamont which was asked this morning. Lamont has only one post in this topic afterwards.
So, what about the other days?

[ZazieR]

just based on this game, I think we could probably make a lurking/active lurking case on a lot of people. Maybe just not all of them.

My case isn't only based upon this.
And, Magnus hasn't been pushing hard for a Lamont lynch ever since he first mentioned his suspicions.

[ZazieR]

@Phily

What do you think of the case against Myko?

[ZazieR]

Zaz... do you believe that all killers in this game are anti-town?

@Gorrad - Why did you want a flavor claim?

Well, at this moment I don't think so due to the Mastin kill. There's a reason after review why I believe this.
However, there's a way to test it, though very risky. But I'll get to this later as I'm waiting on something.

[ZazieR]

I'd also like to throw out (to see what people think) the possibility of a mass flavor-claim. When I ran the Death Note MINI, I had trouble finding enough protown roles. I imagine this mod may have had similar issues.

Can you elaborate on what you mean with mass flavor-claim?
Are you talking about names or something else?

This please, Gorrad

[ZazieR]

Prod received, I've been actively trying to catch up (currently page 19/26)

Be posting in a little bit...

Gorrad

, did you receive a prod?

And could you answer this as well?

[ZazieR]

As for your 2nd & 3rd questions: As 1 or 2 people said before me, zwet did not claim at the most appropriate of times. He then would later come out and say no one believed his fakeclaim.. Obviously, he just made himself the center of attention. Do you think this is pro-scum behavior, or pro-town for that matter? I certainly don't, because this is the kind of null-tells that keep eyes on you. I think he doesn't fear death because he's Shinigami. The way Tajo jumped to vote for him made me think that I wasn't the only person who had the same thoughts,. And I do apologize for informing Kira about a [highly-possible] Shinigami, but Tajo made a very quiet/fishy vote and I felt the need to alert everyone. Why else would zwet do all of this?

I write it down as zwet-behaviour for now, till he gives more information. So

Zwet

what can you tell us about your 'fake-claim'/claim?
And we'll hear soon from Zwet why he did this, as he has done stranger things in the past >.< So I don't know what to think why he would do that.

[ZazieR]

Actually, I'm not buying that you fake-claimed, zwet.

>.<

Why are people pointing this out if they actually think that?

Because we hate circular logic, but scum love it Because a Dutch blonde girl is definitly not stupid to say what she actually thinks about a claim in topic But they know that that's what I want them to think. However, Misa Misa is so on their side, and she's just stupid enough to let this continue for the scum, so why should I bother to expand on this ?

but really, all this is over now, it is a bit useless to keep talking about it.

Not if Zazie thinks your reaction was scummy.

What are you saying here? I hope you're not saying what I think you're saying...

[ZazieR]

Names only.

No thanks.

[ZazieR]

Zwet says he isn't a tracker. Why should we keep pushing that he is?

Not pushing if he's a tracker or not. But I do want to find out his intentions and it might be something that tells his allignment. So I'm not gonna ignore it.

[ZazieR]

I think the setup is breakable, and I think it makes no sense at all (in a gameplay sense, not a flavor sense) for an anti-town role to have to rely on rolenames to kill, so I'm not worrying about that.

Why do you think this?

[ZazieR]

[ZazieR]

What is "IIOA"? I can't find any explanation of it in the wiki or with a Google search.

IIOA

[ZazieR]

That's fine, but there's no reason to say he wasn't fakeclaiming if he says he was. He's Zwet. If he gets caught in something, and admits it, he's telling the truth.

facepalm

At least I didn't quote it, but this.

Votecount
mykonian - 4 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

, Spolium, ortolan)
zwetschenwasser - 4 (populartajo, Kise, Albert B. Rampage, Benmage)
magnus_orion - 2 (

ZazieR

, mykonian)
Kise - 1 (Starbuck)
Kairyuu - 1 (Lamont_Cranston)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
ZEEnon - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
Gorrad - 1 (Kmd4390)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc

I might be Kira.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

KMD, where is it against the rules?

I think it would make no sense to need rolename because that would SIGNIFICANTLY cripple any anti-town group. Especially if a hypothetical namecop died.

I think the setup is breakable because think: The number of characters not clearly scum (allied with Light or Mello) is notably small. The SPK, Near's group, L, Watari, Light's family, and a handful of others (Lind L. Taylor, Raye and his SO, and Hideki Ryuga spring to mind). Could YOU get 25 names from that? I know I'd be hard-pressed to do so.

I can

[ZazieR]

Oh. It DOES say you aren't allowed to break the game. Darnit!

On the other hand, I'm taking that as proof that I'm right.

Zazie, how many of those are actually protown?

Don't know...
But most of them are, I think.

[ZazieR]

Zaz wins! I did not fakeclaim.

The earlier questions:
Ok, I saw that you already stated your reason for claiming. So I'll only ask why you didn't soft-claim by stating that you think he was a tracker, or something like that?

I didn't know that Mastin in particular was R. I only knew that R was my lover.

Second question, did you already know that he was your lover at the start of this game?

I only knew that the rolename R was my lover, not the person who was attached to the rolename

Third, how did you learn you became a tracker?

Mod PM

And last but not least, since when do you remember to whom you are paired >.<?

Huh?

Ok, the first question isn't answered as you didn't explain why you claimed that Raye was a tracker, instead of soft-claiming or something like that.
Regarding the second question, could you two communicate with eachother or not?
As for the third, did you learn about it through the mod role PM, or did you received a PM after Mastin died in which it was said?
The fourth question was more a joke, as you've shown now in three games that you don't know who your partner is when you're paired with somebody (lover or mason). But you may still answer the question though

[ZazieR]

WTF ZWET

Do you have a problem that Zwet told that his claim was real? And if so, why?
Also, what's your opinion of his claim now?

[ZazieR]

Boring. Lynch zwet.

No.
Also, this:

@All Zwet voters and those who suspect him

Do you think he's a shinigami or pro-Kira?

Votecount
mykonian - 4 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

, Spolium, ortolan)
zwetschenwasser - 3 (populartajo, Albert B. Rampage, Benmage)
magnus_orion - 2 (

ZazieR

, mykonian)
Kairyuu - 1 (Lamont_Cranston)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
ZEEnon - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
Gorrad - 1 (Kmd4390)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad,

semioldguy

, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Kise, Starbuck

Huh? Ryuk, you didn't see what I wrote for the details of his death?

Uh-uh. It's no fun if I know what's going to happen.

Well, in that case, sit back and enjoy the show.

[/i]

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

@Kise
What is your impression of Zwet's claim --> fake-claim --> claim story?

[ZazieR]

Zaz, have you checked medieval yet?

Nope, not yet. I've been very busy lately >.<
And this:

I was kept busy this evening. I'll try tomorrow.

[ZazieR]

I fakeclaimed fakeclaiming after I real claimed.

I see. Why?

Oh, so we're gonna use smileys to communicate?
Ok, mine:


Seriously though, do you mind answering Gorrad's question?

[ZazieR]

Please tell me I'm not getting lynched.

Are you scared to be lynched?
I don't see why you should be as your claim fits Naomi Penber, who seems more likely to be anti-kira than something else, but I find it suspicious when players are scared of their lynch.

[ZazieR]

Now that you mention it... Seriously, why would you post a lot of times in a row, when you notice lots of people complaining on catching up. Just don't mention every tidbit that pops up. That said, your posts and the questions you ask/remarks you make seem genuine, you're not too sure which could point out you're town. On the other side you're defending ZEE, and I have him as my main suspect at the moment.

Because I have noticed that when I post multiple posts after each other, that they are better to understand and that players will look more closely at those, than the large posts I used to do.
Also, I don't see how you get the impression that I'm defending ZEEnon as he's one of my top suspicions.

[ZazieR]

He could've/should've known people would attack him on this [...] and it increases my suspicion on Gorrad.

I'm afraid I don't see how these two clauses work together.

You come up with a bad idea, hence it increases my suspicion of you. That's about it.

i really dont see anything wrong with someone that comes up with a bad idea but his real motive is prob trying to break the game.

Does this mean you agree with a flavor claim, or not? And why?
But I agree with the first part, so

WLC

can you say why proposing a 'bad idea' increases your suspicion against that player?

[ZazieR]

I think everyone else should wait for Jebus, ZEEnon, Kairyuu & possibly Lamont to post. It's only fair that we let them catch up, since they have jobs/school and aren't losers like the rest of us, sitting around in grandma's basement. They might be better in helping this game progress, so I'll be one to wait.

But on the real.. Jebus, you better be posting tonight since it's only 4 pages, buddy. There's only 1 Jesus [Kise] around here.

I also want them to catch up, but I'm not in favor of discussing less in order for them to do so.
I think all of them (except Lamont as he's caught up) should say on which page they are, and state their suspicions that they have right now. Later, they can always change these when they are fully caught up.