Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

[Spolium]

The speculation that Shinigami don't necessarily start with a Death Note stands out as potentially useful. I consider Zazier's #128 to be reinforcement of this being the case, and as such it should be noted by all.

That's all I have right now. It's 3am and this thread is violently rutting against my brain.

[Spolium]

I'd rather lynch Misa or Kira rather than Ryuk

Any scum player possessing a Death Note is Kira. There can be multiple Kiras, even at the same time, and there even can be no Kiras.

It seems reasonable to assume that Phily is not scum. Yay!

[Spolium]

My stupid makes me town?

If you were one of the Kiras (or capable of becoming one) then you'd be more familiar with that part of the rules, I think.

Also, your stupid makes you lovable <3

[Spolium]

You disgree because of WIFOM? Or something else?

[Spolium]

Hey, that's cool. I wouldn't consider it open and shut just yet.

[Spolium]

@Zaz

Eh? What has my post to do with all this?

My mistake, upon the first read through I thought you were hinting at part of your role, i.e. you were aware of the presence of misa misa and you wanted to make the town aware of it.

- where did the image from your first post come from?
- are you misa misa y/n? BE HONEST.

[Spolium]

OKAY EVERYONE STOP UNTIL SERAPHIM HAS CAUGHT UP

I MEAN IT

[Spolium]

[quote="ZEEnon"]I was under the impression that Ray Penber would be a tracker of some sort.

Have you anything to support this, or is it just speculation based on the source material?

[Spolium]

Frigging tags.

I was under the impression that Ray Penber would be a tracker of some sort.

Have you anything to support this, or is it just speculation based on the source material?

[Spolium]

What makes you think he was a cop? There are at least 15 characters who fit as cop in Death Note.

QFT.

If you guys have read the book or watched the show, Raye is one of the first main characters to die. Our mod may be following the actual story line.

A thought occurs - what if the death notes can be used by day?

It seems reasonable to assume that since the town's objective is to destroy the death notes (

not

all the scum), the scum require death notes to perform kills and cannot do so without them. This disadvantage would necessitate a counterbalance, and IMO balance could be achieved through either:

1. 2-3 death notes attainable by scum
2. no restriction on the time at which death notes can be used
3. both of the above

So I'm not especially sure that a town-aligned vig was responsible for Mastin's death.

Why are you asking for a character claim already?

Zaz seems awfully preoccupied with Misa Misa. I didn't think she'd claim Misa but wanted a straight answer for the record.

[Spolium]

At this moment, I see no reason to doubt that it was a vig. However, the thought was there that it wasn't the job of a vig, which is my reason for not commenting on it and hoping that nobody else would in case this is the truth.

One thought that came to mind was

I don't see how me being 'preoccupied' with Misa Misa would make me Misa Misa. Wouldn't that make me sooner somebody who wants to find her? So I don't see why you would ask if I was Misa Misa for your given reason.

Well, given that you caught my attention with your first post but it later turned out that you weren't looking for Misa Misa, the possibility of you being Misa was the next thing that crossed my mind.

--------

I just realized that to use a death note, you need someone's name and face. So in this game, it's possible that the scum kill by knowing your name. I don't know about everyone else, but you won't be getting a name claim from me until this is proven to be false.

That's an interesting point, but if that limitation were in place then scum wouldn't be able to perform kills unless they (a) posessed a death note (not a given) AND (b) knew a player's name.

If that's how the death notes work then scum are going to have a hard time, no? It's a highly unlikely scenario.

[Spolium]

EBWOP:

At this moment, I see no reason to doubt that it was a vig.

However, the thought was there that it wasn't the job of a vig, which is my reason for not commenting on it and hoping that nobody else would in case this is the truth.

One thought that came to mind was that scum did it to WIFOM up the town a bit. Mastin's play is so divisive that it would be relatively easy to argue for/against each group of players that interacted with him (we've already seen "take note of Mastin defenders" and "take note of Mastin wagoners" angles).

Can you further clarify the emboldened text from above? Why wouldn't you want others to point it out in the event that it was the truth?

Preview Edit:

Uhm, why did you quote the first part

I forgot to finish it before hitting post

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Lamont_Cranston, mykonian, Starbuck)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser,

cateraction

, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, magnus_orion, Jebus, populartajo, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, Spolium, LlamaFluff, WeyounsLastClone

I could fall for you, you know?

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Spolium]

If that's how the death notes work then scum are going to have a hard time, no? It's a highly unlikely scenario.

A harder time than town will have destorying death notes?

It would be potentially impossible for scum to kill

anyone

if the town found no reason to NC, and even if some players did so, the scum target pool would be limited to that group. Even if NCs were taking place the town would likely become aware of this pattern within a couple of days. Scum would be at a marked disadvantage either way.

My point is that the game would not be balanced in the least if scum needed names to kill. It's good that there's enough collective familiarity with the manga/anime to make potentially useful observations but this one in particular is a null point I think.

[Spolium]

Spolium, are you against my suggestion that no one name claims?

I am in two minds about your suggestion. On one hand, there could well be some sort of mechanic based on that aspect of the story (although I think the particular manifestation you suggest is unfeasible). On the other, the existence of Shinigami as special characters mirroring their roles in the manga/anime

and

Raye Penber flipping town suggest a link between names and alignment.

That said, I'll agree to no-one nameclaiming until we have more related information.

Oh, I don’t know…I googled Death Note earlier, and googled his name specifically, sounded like a cop. Tracker I suppose makes sense too, I don’t know too much about this theme.

His fiance was also an ex-FBI agent. There were also 6 members of the Japanese police force on the Kira case long term, and later another USA-based team looking for Kira as well.

[Spolium]

I think all the mafia are SK'ers too. I have no prove obviously, just general intuition.

There is also the potential for two scum teams in keeping with the flavour, though with 2-3 neutral players around you may be right.

According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

Given the flexible cause of death via death notes in the series I wouldn't discount it as unlikely until we're better informed.

[Spolium]

Wouldn't it make sense for Light and Misa to be working together?

And/or Yatsuba Group

[Spolium]

I think those that can kill are the mafia teams: the one mello worked for and the organization that Light entrusted his death note to. In addition to this there are Death notes lying around belonging to SKs. If a mafia team kills someone with a death note, they gain the death note along with an additional kill.

I don't find this very likely due to the fact that our win conidition is the destruction of all death notes.

Think about it; if scum could kill without possessing a death note, why would the game end when the death notes are gone? Given that there are likely to be multiple death notes - all of which could potentially end up in the hands of mafia - I am willing to bet that the scum can't kill without them.

--

Mastin claimed shinigami
shinigami could easily have a deathnote

Further reason to consider Mastin's death being the work of scum.

claiming shinigami is practically a scumclaim

Please expand upon this.

--
I look back on Kairyuu's #477 with concern, principally because he didn't consider the possibility of a specified cause of death (for the uninitiated, this is a heavily-used plot device in Death Note). I cannot fathom why a townie familiar with the Death Note story would dismiss that hypothesis and can only presume there is an ulterior motive.

vote: Kairyuu

[Spolium]

I thought exactly the same as myk when I saw Mastin's claim. A shinigami with a death-note would be very foolish to claim.

Why would a Shinigami with a deathnote be very foolish to claim, Budja?

[Spolium]

spolium seems not to understand that claiming you might have a deathnote gets you lynched. (= scumclaim)

I'd imagine being unlynchable and unkillable takes the sting out of it.

It doesn't seem to me that he understands that we have to destroy deathnotes, and if he was town, he would know that was his wincondition.

I refer you to this rule, from the first page:

The town win condition is to destroy all Death Notes.

The town win condition is common knowledge, I'm afraid.

That aside, I asked the question because Budja's post suggested special knowledge about Shinigami.

- We know that Shinigami drop their death notes if they're targeted for a lynch/kill but there is currently no way of knowing how this ties in to their unique win condition.

- Being unlynchable/unkillable, Shinigami will still be around even if they lose their death notes, and may even be able to retrieve them.

- Two of the three main Shinigami in the series willingly allow their death notes to be used by others.

Therefore, we cannot say with certainty that it would be stupid of Shinigami to claim. Only Shinigami know this.

____________

Can you elaborate on this?

Kairyuu's avatar features a character/quote from the series (and he's playing this game of course), so it's pretty much a given that he's familiar with the series.

In the series, when a name is written on a death note the result is a heart attack 40 seconds later. However, the writer can stipulate both time of death and cause of death. This is used so many times in the series that anyone who's read the manga/watched the anime cannot possibly be ignorant of it.

When it had been posited that death note holders could specify a cause of death, Kairyuu's response was:

@Phily: You obviously aren't paying attention. According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

I don't see how he could discount the idea so readily.

[Spolium]

Myk, why do you think Shinigami don't want to lose their notes? What evidence do you have to support this?

no, the thing you were mostly talking about, was that the deathnote could be transferred to scum.

Are you referring to my question to Budja, or something else?

[Spolium]

Can you please provide a link to some series reference where this is so? To where maybe even someone cause shooting to be the death?

Are the notes that powerful?

Well, one example which sticks out (and I think was mentioned by Zazier earlier) was when Light Yagami uses the note to find out Raye Penber's name (as both a name and a face are required to kill using a death note). Read the synopsis for episode 4 on THIS PAGE, it explains it well enough.

Other examples of such control by Light, off the top of my head:

- a would-be rapist killed by a speeding truck

- 3 isolated prisoners write part of a taunting message for the guy tracking him (right before each one dies)

- Raye Penber's fiance commits "suicide" to prevent her from revealing potentially incriminating information to the police

Death Note Rules, for your convenience.

[Spolium]

@All:

What is the case for scum starting out with death notes? Is there

any

actual reason to believe this?

- If scum could kill of their own accord, why would the town win when the death notes are gone? The logical answer is that death notes are required for scum kills.

- Without the ability to kill, scum's only means of gaining death notes would be by driving lynches against Shinigami and hoping that they gain the death note against the odds.

- However, there are likely 2-3 death notes in the game. For scum to be able to kill normally AND obtain these seems overpowered.

I would surmise, therefore, that the scum start with at least one death note (possibly two, in case one is found early).

The flavour also supports this; the story itself kicks off when one of the Shinigami drops his death note in the human world, allowing a human to pick it up and start using it.

[Spolium]

EBWOP:

The flavour also supports this; the story itself kicks off when one of the Shinigami drops his death note in the human world, allowing a human to pick it up and start using it. A second death note arrives in human hands due to a second Shinigami (who, incidently, falls in love - unrequited love - with the girl who she gives her).

This thought just came to me - Zwet has claimed one-sided lover/tracker. This seems to fit Rem the Shinigami much better than Raye Penber's fiance. Thoughts?

Votecount
Kise - 3 (Starbuck, ortolan, populartajo)
mykonian - 2 (LlamaFluff,

cateraction

)
Kairyuu - 2 (Spolium, Lamont_Cranston)
Spolium - 1 (Kmd4390)
Lamont_Cranston - 1 (magnus_orion)
ZEEnon - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
Not voting: zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, Benmage,

ZazieR

, Jebus, Budja, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage,

semioldguy

, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, PhilyEc, mykonian

You make it sound like if I do too well, you suspect me even more.

Yes, it is now three percent.

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

[Spolium]

You first said that Mastin was town, but later you state that you thought that he was a shinigami without a deathnote. So which is it?

I have always believed Mastin to be a shinigami. I also believed he couldn't be hurt by town, or he thought town wouldn't hurt him. The first is more likely.

[..]

but really, all this is over now, it is a bit useless to keep talking about it.

Mastin claimed to be normal town, not shinigami, what had been my assumption.

claiming shinigami is practically a scumclaim.

unvote; vote: mykonian

, for declaring Shinigami to be essentially scum yet not voting or pressing the guy he thought was a Shinigami.

[Spolium]

Spolium, please explain me why he claimed then?

I thought I was pretty clear that was the problem all the time.

From #313:

I think Mastin didn't make up his story, and is now saying it was not serious, something that makes me think we should actually lynch him. The way he posted in the start, it seemed weird. This made me think that he was shinigami, but not in danger/not harmful to town.

Now he tried to say he was simple town, and I don't buy it.

But mastin confuses me a lot, and it is practically impossible to get a read on him.

Up to that point your posts mostly concern Mastin being 3rd party/Shinigami. You even rationalised why a Shinigami might play that way, yet despite arguing that Shinigami would probably not want to give up their death note (and indeed, had trouble reading him) you took Mastin's word for it that he had no death note and basically put no meaningful pressure on him whatsoever.

Later, you would argue that "Shinigami" is tantamount to "scum" in your eyes. You're actually right - both Shinigami and mafia are capable of holding on to a death note so we must aim to lynch/kill both, and even if we find one without a death note they're still a potential threat. Given that you seemed to recognise this threat, why push Mastin so little?

@Kairyuu

- I still want an answer to my question, which has since been repeated by Lamont.

[Spolium]

@Kairyuu:

I look back on Kairyuu's #477 with concern, principally because he didn't consider the possibility of a specified cause of death (for the uninitiated, this is a heavily-used plot device in Death Note). I cannot fathom why a townie familiar with the Death Note story would dismiss that hypothesis and can only presume there is an ulterior motive.

I'd still like a response to this.