Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Kison]

It's been a good three years or so since I've read any of the books in depth, but if I recall correctly, the 'bad' Aes Sedai were referred to as the Black Ajah, and were not bound by the Three Oaths, presumably meaning they were able to lie unless forced to swear them again. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming I'm right, MackavityLock's idea indeed comes across as a waste of time and distracting because the only people who this seems designed to 'catch' would not be hindered by the utterance of a false statement.

@MacavityLock: I know you've rescinded, but who did you hope to catch with this, and

how

did you hope for that to happen?

Honestly, I am starting to wonder what Shadow Knight is playing at right now, he seems very transfixed on the Aes Sedai and I don't know what he is trying to accomplish at this time.

FoS: Shadow Knight

. What are you hoping to accomplish with all this talk of AS?

The mini should be taken into account for very little in this game, because if you look in the large theme ideas thread, Kinetic stated that he was going to change things around.

Vote: fuzzylightning

Are you voting for Shadow Knight for anything besides that he is talking about Aes Sedai? That appears to be the subject around which the game is revolving right now, so why single him out?

[Kison]

At first glance, Fabian's claim comes across as believable. It's definitely not something I wish to test with a lynch at this point - flavor-wise I think the claim holds true to the books.

Right now? On Day 1 with 6 pages of role speculation and bullshit about how best we can do the scum's job by outing potential Aes Sedai for them? Pretty damn much everyone stupid enough to take part in such a worthless sidetrack, because the more of this deliberately obfuscating crap clogs up the thread, the harder finding scum becomes, and I'm pretty damn sure that most of this crap is coming from scum.

If you are 'pretty damn sure' that

most

of the previous discussion had originated from scum, why have you:

1) Ignored MBL's question
2) Shown reluctance to attack said offenders?

I was singling him out, because I don't know what he is trying to do with all his talk of Aes Sedai, whereas everyone else was pretty clear in their posts, hence the FoS and not the vote.

How was he unclear? Why were you then able to go back and figure out his intentions only after being asked about this? Why did you assume your lack of clarity translated to scummy behavior?

[Kison]

Sorry for my absence. I'm alive.

Spyrex's claim: He's probably telling the truth about what he is. Not sure why scum of any sort would reveal themselves to be a male channeler. Jester speculation seems mostly useless to me. Gentling seems like a very valid route for handling this.

CAN WE PLEASE STOP CLAIMING!? OMG.

QFT

OH MY GOD STOP CLAIMING ALREADY FOR THE LOVE OF BOB.

QFT

Seriously folks, cut it out already.

lol you think he already told me his ability?

Did you not say previously that your partner forbade you from divulging it? Doesn't that imply you know what it is? I'm pretty sure your assertion that you have not yet lied is due to sneaky wording. The problem is that I do not understand why you feel it is necessary.

As for Alfred B Rampage's claim - this really depends the comparison that Shadow Knight draws between what ABR listed in his role claim and what, presumably, SK was told. But his claim looked extremely detailed, and if there were any glaring inconsistencies then I think SK would have pointed them out by now.

I don't really find the fact that ABR claimed in the first place to be very indicative of his alignment - he has a reputation for having done far more delirious things in the past.

Lastly on this subject, I support one of SK & ABR confirming/contradicting Fabian's claim of Saidar being used. Really. How is this information damning?

And by breaking the oaths I'm saying it doesn't make him automatically scum, just careless and perhaps stupid.

QFT - and this is important. Granted, I think that catching claimed AS in a lie makes it more likely they're scum, but since everyone here is

playing a role

, breaking a post restriction is not an

impossible

contradiction, even if it is illegal.

Unvote

Vote: Mufasa

for lack of content in existing posts and seemingly insincere vote on ABR.

@Mufasa, please provide a list of your top three suspects with brief explanations for why you find them suspicious.

[Kison]

Mastermind of Sin's post 617 is very good.

Not to mention, he has been "counterclaimed" by two roles that are different than his, one of the people being Shadow Knight, who is trying to get every Aes Sedai to claim their sleeping positions (hugely anti-town much?). You think that's a smart counterclaim to lynch based on? Forgive me if I am of a different viewpoint.

Two roles that are different than his own, but sharing one very crucial similarity, in that they should have detected Saidar being used as xxFabianxx claims. Do you think that both Albert B. Rampage and Shadow Knight are lying? Do you think they are doing this in coordination? If you don't believe both are lying, what do you think that says about xxFabianxx's claim that he detected Saidar being used?

I was reading through and I don't totally agree with ABR and his idea that we should state where we stayed during daybreak, Why state this? Information such as this could easily be used on succeeding night's abilities.

By daybreak, we will no longer be in the location we are claiming, since everyone comes back to the common room.

I think that Fabian is the best lynch at this point. Aside from the obvious contradiction by two claimed Aes Sedai who also claim to have the ability to detect Saidar(which they very well should), looking back at Fabian's "I was drunk" defense, his posts don't look like they were written by someone who was drunk to the point of being unable to remember what they had done the following day.

@xxFabianxx, do you drunk post often?

Unvote

Vote: xxFabianxx

[Kison]

Let's vote the MC now.

Vote Spryex, FoS Spryex

Any reason why, especially considering he was to be targeted by two Aes Sedai who had outed themselves yesterday, for gentling? Also, are you reading the game? If so, then why did you ignore Albert B. Rampage's request that everyone claim sleeping locations?

I need everyone to claim where they slept.

I was at the windmill.

I'm curious about the nightkills. Dismemberment doesn't particularly strike me as a One Power killing, but incineration does. Also, what on earth is a "Survivor Mafia"? If the scum have additional criteria on their WC we could have quite a number of them around.

Not sure how useful speculating about this this will be, but a Gholam or Trollocs would make sense to kill by dismemberment. I could also see channeling doing it, though.

Sajin, Isaac, and Spyrex all jumped on Shadow Knight after (s)he contradicting Fabian's detection of Saidar.

Vote: Isacc

- I think the 'slip' Macavity noted holds some weight, but this is more for his reaction to Shadow Knight gunning for xxFabianxx.

[Kison]

ABR can come out and say whether or not he and his partner attempted to gentle Syprex if he wants, but I'm fairly certain both he and Shadow Knight said they were going to attempt it.

Just because someone was incinerated doesn't mean Spyrex is responsible for it.

FoS: Mufasa

- Who are your top three suspects? Your last list was underwhelming. Two lines explanation for each of them, please.

[Kison]

Updating locations quickly to see who hasn't claimed one, yet.

Barn

Faraday
Albert B. Rampage

Blacksmith

Kairyuu
Isacc
MrBuddyLee

River

Benmage
Yosarian2
Sajin
fuzzylightning
Slicey

Silo

Seraphim
julienvonwolfe
Mastermind of Sin

Wiindmill

Mr. Flay
MacavityLock
Mufasa
Kison

Stables

SpyreX

Unclaimed

Myndrunner
Tuberkulos

Myndrunner & Tuberkulos need prodding - both have produced very little content. I'm not eager to hop on the Slicey bandwagon just yet as many seem to have done - the guy has been V/LA for most of the game, and aside from his one scummy backtracking post, there is very little else to analyze. However, I expect a detailed post from him when he returns(which should be soon, right?).

So. Mufasa for Fabian's buddy anyone? The wording of that hammer post is really irking me.

@all: I do not like the looks of Slicey right now. As soon as he is challenged, he backpedals immensely. Either he or Mufasa will likely be my top suspect for D2.

Why have you only focused on Slicey, and not Mufasa, who you seemed to be fairly suspicious of, since these two posts that I am quoting right here? Have his more recent posts assuaged your suspicion of him? If so, then please explain how.

[Kison]

Albert get's motivated. Since he has claimed Aes Sedai, he CANNOT lie as to whether or not it occured. This confirms that I am not lying.

Or you "motivate" him and then kill him during the night. Brilliant plan.

That's part two of my role. As a blacksmith, my years of working for the Queen paid off at one point or another. According to my role-pm, the Queen gave me a reward for my services during my last trip to the capitol.

The reward was a Foxhead Medallion. All my role-pm tells me is that it has been known to grow cool to the touch around Aes Sedai. Of course, the logical guess I made was that it's the same foxhead medallion Mat Cauthon recieves in the 5th book. As a result, the One-Power cannot touch me.

From a flavor standpoint, it makes little sense that the foxhead medallion would be in the hands of a queen considering where and how it was obtained in the books.

Town: Spyrex is probably town, mostly because with still two missing stables-sleepers, whatever two who lied about their sleeping location seem less likely to be town.

Not necessarily true until the two who have yet to claim locations actually do so.

I KNOW THAT YOU'RE LYING BECAUSE I ROLEBLOCKED YOU YESTERDAY.

Bahaha what a crazy night.

Anything

else

you'd like to add?

[Kison]

If Kaiyruu motivated Issac.. what did Issac do? Nothing? Double immunity lol...

He already claimed an 'ability' that was doubled in post 965.

[Kison]

And then the Foxhead Medallion is passive. It does not actually tell me the ability it gives me, just the flavor about receiving the gift from the Queen and how it grows cool to the touch, however the One Power immunity was pretty obvious.

Is your immunity unconditional? The foxhead medallion in the books didn't prevent indirect use of the One Power, such as having items thrown at the wearer, so one would think that "incineration", if done correctly, would still be an effective attack despite your possession of the medallion - but you seem to be implying that your immunity is foolproof.

[Kison]

Unvote

[Kison]

Anyways, this has all gone on long enough, and there's nothing I can do to stop my own lynch. Given that reality, I will play to my win condition, and attempt to prolong my life as much as possible.

Your win condition presumably is to kill everyone else. You do realize that claiming is equivalent to suicide, right? Whatever smidgen of a chance you had to avoid being lynched has now vaporized.

Anyway, yes: Wait for replacements so we can get those sleeping locations.

@Mufasa, please pay attention to the game.

[Kison]

Also, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a Gholam mafia. I'm actually surprised that I am even an SK, as I don't see why a shadowspawn would work for itself.

If you are a serial killer as you claim, then I really doubt there is one working for the 'Mafia' as well.

Actually, all that "only in my location" thing was an honest mistake on my part. You see, I have a tracking ability that lets me learn the sleeping location of a person I use it on, and then move closer to them. I assumed my kill only went through on people in my location, because of that. I was wrong, however.

Are you saying that your tracking ability actually moves you during the night? How do you know you were even at the Blacksmith then, or can you be at two locations at once?

[Kison]

Casting a "one of three" net across people attacking him really helps support the case of Isacc being scum.

Nice. I like how your case against a confirmed SK is to make me seem scummy. Really shows that you're protown there.

What's the problem, here? Being a serial killer is inherently scummy.

Also, you "nailing 2 scum" isn't a free pass to

anything,

and the fact that you are trying to play it off as a reason to find you pro-town is a big red flag.

FoS MoS

for that one.

No, it's not a free pass to anything, but your implication that it shouldn't be taken into account when assessing his alignment is a fallacious argument.

2) I was not immune to the One Power....hmmm both of those were false...

I think the larger issue was your contradicting statements regarding your interaction with the moderator over the workings of the foxhead medallion, not the passive ability to fend off the One Power in itself.

MOTIVATOR IS NOT A SCUM ROLE.

Settle down there, Rasputin: IT HAS BEEN DONE.

MOTIVATOR IS NOT A SCUM ROLE

IT HAS BEEN DONE

[Kison]

That's a particularly different role. Yes it is called a "motivator" but it is a very different role. The role we are discussing here is one that specifically grants the target the ability to choose two actions.

I don't think it's logical that this type of motivator would be a scum role.
I don't think it's logical that this type of motivator, if scum, would have targeted me.

The logic does not hold. Why is everyone clinging to it? Illogical behavior is so frustrating...

I agree with your #2(if you flip SK) but not necessarily with your #1; I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility as you are doing in a game as complex as this - but in the end I don't think it really matter unless you are lynched and not revealed as SK. If you're telling the truth I don't think you really should be concerned.

Kison, did you read the modnotes for the game that you linked? Your example even proves my logic.

Who did the motivator motivate every single day he was alive? SCUM.

Meh, again, I'm not really concerned as long as you flip SK. That was actually the only example of motivator as scum I found on the entire site. I mainly posted that to heckle you for your adamancy that it was not a scum role.

Then obviously you didn't read the arguments, because that didn't happen till a couple posts before I claimed. I was already heavily wagoned by that time. And, at least 3 people claimed my "one power immunity" was just a failed gambit and made up in order to protect against the roleblock accusation. You sir, need to read more carefully.

People thought it was a failed gambit because your claim was poorly executed: You claimed blacksmith and moments later claimed to have one power immunity on the side. That didn't add up, and in the end we got it right, even though it was a good attempt. I think it's pretty arrogant of you to shout about how wrong everyone was when you were caught for fairly valid reasons, but hey, whatever. I don't care that much.

[Kison]

This is a lie, and if you were actual AS you would have been modkilled. Therefore, logic says you are scum.

FoS: Kairyuu

- Seriously, did you even bother checking up on this?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#1518195

[Kison]

Vote: Sajin

[Kison]

I slept at the River.

Unvote

I voted for Sajin because he was one of the folks who went after Shadow Knight right after he claimed. His ABR attack due to the supposed vote manipulating ability is what my vote was a direct response to, however. I'm unvoting because of his softclaim - I'm not entirely sure I'm prepared to force that out yet.

I don't have a list of 3 suspects right now spryex

What happened to the people you previously suspected? Do you no longer suspect them? If your answer to that is no, then please explain why. Also, how have you no-one to suspect in such an active game?

Does Mufasa always play like this? Like not paying attention and being generally..unhelpful?

I view him as a perfectly acceptable lynch prospect right now, however, I am noting some differences between his play here and his first game on site(which I was in). There, he was a lot scummier but also a lot more proactive and aggressive. I'm not quite seeing the same tendencies here, but I have not ruled out self-imposed restraint on his part.

As for Slicey: I can understand this wagon, but at least he's actually doing something (or said that he would).

I'm noting that you seem to be ignoring the actual quality of content in question, but rather choose to judge the quantity. Which points against Slicey do you agree with?

[Kison]

@Kison. You FoS Kairyuu, can you expand upon this. Do you still think there may be reasons to be suspicious of him?

What about my post is unclear? His attack against ABR was ridiculous, and I illustrated just one example of why. Obviously there are still reasons to be suspicious of him, but that does not mean he is necessarily a good candidate for lynching today. Note I placed my finger of suspicion on him prior to Isaac's cardflip - given he was indeed a/the serial killer, I think there are better prospects for today.

[Kison]

Since everyone presumably told the truth about where they slept(or would be unwilling to admit to lying as it would have been a deceitful act), I can't think of any fool-proof way of putting Flay's ability to the test

today

. I agree that using it on Spyrex seems to be the best course of action at this point, and then having a multitude of lies/truths in a post at some point tomorrow. I'm also against selecting the person who tells the truth/lie on the basis of volunteering, as we need to be as sure as we can that whoever it is that Flay is 'lie detecting' is not aligned with him.

I'm not really sure I believe the claim, but I think we can afford to test it as long as we do so wisely.

[Kison]

I chose to sleep at the blacksmith night 1.

I chose to sleep at the stables night 2.
I chose to sleep at the blacksmith night 2.
I chose to sleep at the river night 2.
I chose to sleep at the windmill night 2.
I chose to sleep at the barn night 2.
I chose to sleep at the silo night 2.

My role PM says I win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
I've killed someone in this game.
A teammate of mine has killed someone in this game.
I have the ability to kill in this game.

Flay has about a 4% chance of correctly lie detecting these questions unless he is telling the truth. Any investigative role can then prove the alignment of both Flay and myself with a single investigation.

Brilliant. I see no reason not to test Flay's ability. He willingly made his own role complex in such a way that lying about it will be even

more

difficult for himself, and we have the capacity to prove/disprove it.

[Kison]

I verified to myself that ABR is pro-town Day One; I can pull the exact post if you like, it came back 100% truthful. I already told you who I tried to target Day Two. That's the extent of my abilities.

Others: I can work with an entire post not just a single declarative statement, so I'd prefer if it combined truth and lies.

The difficulty being that it can't be someone who is an Aes Sedai

, for that reason... so either it's someone we already know not to be one, or who doesn't mind being outed.

Vote: Mr. Flay

[Kison]

Albert, why did you ignore MoS' 984? He's not talking about Kairyuu, he's talking about Fabian and why you ignored the claim to detect Saidar.

I don't understand your query.

Rephrase what you want to know as if you were the one asking the question.

"Did you or did you not detect Saidar usage yesterday when Fabian claimed to have done so (either time)? If not, why didn't you take that as confirmation that Fabian was lying about his 'Lesser Detect Saidar' ability?"

If, at this time, you were sure that ABR was not scum, why did you feel compelled to ask this of him, Mr. Flay?

[Kison]

Um...that's wrong, Kison. The reason it "couldn't be an aes sedai" was because Aes Sedi can't lie, so they could't give a mix of lies and truths, not because he couldn't target an aes sedi.

As had already been pointed out twice prior to your post.

[Kison]

This lemonade is delicious.

[Kison]

Barn

Faraday

River

Kairyuu
Mufasa

Blacksmith

SpyreX
Seraphim
Setael

Windmill

Moratorium
MacavityLock

Silo

Sajin
Kison

Two people slept at the River. One of them was scum. I was one of those people. I am confirmed town. Therefore, Mufasa is scum.

You seem awfully certain about the intel. Why would you not even wait to see who else claimed to sleep at the river before placing your bet? Is it because you are the one who planted that note?

I have no problem claiming I slept at the river because a) I am Town b)

I feel confident that Kairyuu is scum

c) I was randomly generated to sleep at the river therefore d) I believe that the notes are plants and the best way to find out if they are true is by lynching Kairyuu.

You didn't even mention Kairyuu when you claimed your sleeping location. So how could that be a possible motivation for you claiming your sleeping location? Feels like you got fed that post by someone else.

Vote: Mufasa

I'm getting the feeling the two are scum together and are trying to play some kind of gambit, here. This would explain why Kairyuu put Mufasa as one of his top suspects near the end of day one, then completely dropped the case until it was pointed out.

[Kison]

@Mufasa, when exactly you submit your roleblock? Also, what led you to believe OGB is scum?

[Kison]

When did I submit my roleblock or when do I?

When did you.

OGB's actions involving buddying with mr flay before his lynch lead me to roleblocking him.

I'm looking at his posts right now, and am failing to see where this occurs. Show me which post(s) led you to believe there was a connection between the two, stat.

[Kison]

Flavor-wise, I'm not sure whether or not to believe that.

MUFASA: Are you sure your PM didn't give you some flavor about being a darkfriend that you forgot to include?

[Kison]

Unvote

because people

keep

voting.

[Kison]

Can others weigh in on this please? It makes perfect sense to hold any claimed aes sedai accountable for explaining any lies. I'm not talking about subjective statements; only definitive statements like the one he made about Isaac where he said that he noticed something that can't possibly be true.

I find the entire debate to be, ultimately, useless. In this

game

, an Aes Sedai who lies does not guarantee them to be scum. Even though the theme of the game follows the Wheel of Time books, in the end, this is not the Wheel of Time. Every one of us is a fallible human playing a role. Even if there's a post restriction forbidding Albert from lying, it does not necessarily mean he is incapable of doing so unintentionally. See this: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#1518195