The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Naomi_Saotome]

/confirm

[Naomi_Saotome]

Vote: UnofficialRulerofEveryone

Try ruling when you're dead ~!

lol, I think I'll go with someone a little less obvious

Vote: Sajin

[Naomi_Saotome]

lol, I think I'll go with someone a little less obvious

Vote: Sajin

Really, and how is Sajin "less obvious"? [/quote]

Did you over look his other comment?
Expect the unexpected?

[Naomi_Saotome]

apparently your name screams scum...?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Vote: Lamont_Cranston

because that's a name I would expect someone to have if they were a mafia pimp.

Did I say I was drawing a conclusion?
I was simply questioning your statement

[Naomi_Saotome]

ok, carry on... I'd like to hear the answer

Hopefully before I have to leave

[Naomi_Saotome]

What did I miss?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Well, now that I've read over what I missed...
I see there was a vocabulary education session.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Your welcome

You're right there's scum out there somewhere, are we done with the random votes then?

if that's the case I might as well follow suit

Unvote, Vote: Hohum

[Naomi_Saotome]

Conclusions are a natural result of the flow of the game which begins when the first pixel hits after day 1 begins.

Do you think the natural course of a game with 19 people in it (most of whom haven't chimed in yet BTW) warrants drawing conclusions 3 pages into day 1?

The question is, "What conclusion have I drawn?"

And the answer is, "We shall see."

Right, so what conclusions have you drawn? Because when you say stuff like:

2) I like the way she is thinking here and because of that I have joined her on the best vote I can see this early in the game.

Therefore my vote is no longer "random".

It would lead one to believe within a reasonable degree of accuracy that you have A) drawn a conclusion and B) felt justified in your vote.

If you're just full shit and you're really not happy with your vote that's fine too. Just say so. Nobody is going to pester you about a vote change this early in the game.

Being all mysterious about your intentions by repeating my questions is not the right approach, though.

By your own words you have stated it's too early to be drawing conclusions, yet act very much the hypocrite... Your votes haven't seem to be random at all....

[Naomi_Saotome]

BTW, why so defensive so early? Why not do some scum hunting instead of playing this aggressive defensive game?

I am scum hunting... but it's interesting to see what is said and done when buttons are pushed

[Naomi_Saotome]

I don't see how we can be out of the random voting phase yet seeing as not all players have confirmed yet...

[Naomi_Saotome]

hrm... lets see...
It seems like a good idea, seeing as we wouldn't be lynching ourselves...
but then we'd be no closer to finding the scum... we'd have to hope they screw up and show their true colors...

[Naomi_Saotome]

How come every time at least one person starts commenting about "no lynch" and always gets the same answer. BAD BAD BAD Day 1. You would think after a while people don't make the same mistakes.

Probably because no one likes the idea of taking a risk/gamble that big...

[Naomi_Saotome]

I never said I advocate a no lynch. I just asked what people thought about it to try and get some kind of discussion going. It was either that or ask what people thought about a mass claim. *shrug* no one has done anything overtly scummy yet.

It did get discussion going, but I wonder if you were hoping that we would all start tearing ourselves apart with our own words...

FoS Shadow Knight

[Naomi_Saotome]

well, I missed some interesting stuff....
I agree, I'd like to why he's so persistent about what you think the liquid does/will do

[Naomi_Saotome]

I am 100% in favor of someone drinking the drink.

I am against the idea of random.org, since we'll just read into however a given person's "randomization" goes. Let's just pick someone. I pick Lamont.

Why do you think Lamont should drink it?

[Naomi_Saotome]

this is pure speculation...
but what if it gave him an advantage? Say he drinks it, and then he can see everyone's roles...
Seeing as we don't know if he's scum or townie... how does that help?

I think its Hohum's decision whether to use it or not.

[Naomi_Saotome]

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.

[Naomi_Saotome]

I'm not advocating any sort of suspicion... but hohum, why don't you want to use the decanter on yourself? and why don't you want to use it period?

Forgive me if you've mentioned this before, but perhaps a little more detail?

[Naomi_Saotome]

If I was scum I'd be reluctant to drink

QFT

Well, let the record show you're absolutely terrified of that drink.

Shouldn't we all be? seeing as we don't know what it does?

FoS Stephoscope

[Naomi_Saotome]

we need to generate discussion. how does everyone feel about no lynches?

Anyone who advocates NL Day 1 is advocating an advantage for the Mafi. Basically its like saying, "Let's pretend D1 never happened".

Why would you even think of advocating this?

Actually Lamont has stated that it would be a bad idea to not lynch day one

I think Sajin, he finds you to be scum

[Naomi_Saotome]

We cannot do random. This is not because I was selected by the random but, even if shadow knight was selected I would say the same thing. There is one reason for this, the possibility of whomever does the random being scum. We would not get a random result, we would get a result that DEFIANTLY did not say to give it to one of their scumbuddies. There is only one thing we know for sure about each others roles, assuming hohum's role does not say that the goblet is not harmful, if he is scum then I am town. We cannot trust anybodies random. I think that the person who has the most votes, with FoS counting as half a vote, should be forced to drink it. I do not know much about Chzo manor but, they would probably not give us two lynches. Now, I also doubt that they would give us a broken ability. It would be bad if it gave some good ability and we guessed right about the scum. I would be willing to risk that. Anyways, it seems more likely that this is supposed to balance the village in a detrimental way.

I'm still for letting hohum decide what to do with it. If he chooses to use it, he has to explain his reasons for making that choice. If he decides not to use it, he'll have to give us some logical reasoning for not using it... and so on.

I also agree with the idea of giving the decanter contents to the person who receives the most fos (votes), thus far.


Rolling a dice and giving it to someone randomly doesn't help us in anyway... since we don't know what the contents will do to whoever drinks it. I think anyone advocating this is more then likely scum. By trying to control our and keep them random. Making it harder for us to scum hunt them.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Fos Pyro

For the record let it be noted:
You're quick to defend your choice of actions...

[Naomi_Saotome]

Quick to defend? More like explain in other posts.

No one asked you to explain yourself... but you felt the need?

[Naomi_Saotome]

If anyone is wondering why I am offering drink it is because me refusing to drink it and getting lynched will lead to a worse scenario almost 100% (town to mafia flip) of the time.

I think we all can see that you refusing to drink it if you were chosen, would be a bad idea. What I don't understand is why you had to restate that fact and say it as if we couldn't figure that out...

---
agreed Lamont makes a good point...

Unvote, vote Pablo

[Naomi_Saotome]

Also,

FoS: Naimoi

. For 287, giving one person to much power this early in the game is just a bad idea. I didn't see this until now.

The fact of the matter is, hohum has that power... it

is

his choice to make, we can pressure him as much as we can, but if he doesn't follow the town's lead he's responsible. And WE have the power to undo that after he has made his decision...

[Naomi_Saotome]

Xtoxm's rush to grab/drink/take the decanter is what has me worried
*snip*

Amished,
are you implying you think other people have inside information about the decanter or items in general?

---

Ok so..

I still really don't care who drinks the decanter...

---

I agree with Alaska.

this is pure speculation...
but what if it gave him an advantage? Say he drinks it, and then he can see everyone's roles...
Seeing as we don't know if he's scum or townie... how does that help?

I think its Hohum's decision whether to use it or not.

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.

wow

vote: Naomi

That's almost a complete relinquish of any responsibility for a misdeed. ;/

Vote: Naomi

Well I don't see why someone's putting words in my mouth...
I'm not looking to wash my hands of any misdeeds. I was stating how it's up to hohum to use it or not, seeing as hohum is gone right now no one knows what he intends to do at this point. But the last thing he said was that he wasn't willing to use it.

I'm not saying we shouldn't use it, I don't agree with him there. But there's a lot of other people saying that we should just let it go unused. I'm not sure that ignoring something like this is a good idea, even if we don't know what it might do. It'd be like advocating no lynch D1. We've got to take risks at some point. But the question is what risks do we take?

The way I see it we can pressure him to use it, and tell him what to do with it, but he doesn't have to do it. Not doing what we say to will probably lead to many votes for his lynching. Which is all I was really saying. The majority wants to use it and I would have to agree.
I just don't know about a random dice roll as the decision.


On a side note, I am indeed a girl. If eveyone wants to refer to me as a he... I'm good with that too!

[Naomi_Saotome]

In my opinion the only relation to them is risk. Lynching narrows our probability's down makes it easier for us to find scum. With this decanter, and any future items... We're going to have to decide to use them or not. It's probably safe to assume that not all items found, are going to be good for the town. But we can't really make that call if we don't know what each item does. Do we therefore not use any item through out the game?

[Naomi_Saotome]

@Devestation: I hold the same viewpoint, however you can't not drink it if Hohum decided to give it to you. So we're basically tying you down screaming. Now if this was a European mature movie, that might not be so bad. Unfortunately, we're in a manor with evil trying to kill us all.

I don't *think* that there's any sort of liquid that people really drink, or something found to drink other than the water that I talked about earlier. In the game, that was a puddle formed by like a leaky pipe or something, and nothing formal like anything in a cup. My project right now is to watch the playthroughs of them again and make sure though. If there is a precedent or anything to compare it to it'd probably be in the trilby's notes game (possibly in the flashback to the inn, which is where I'll be looking first). There's nothing that I can think of in the first one in the manor, nor in the future/space, nor in the underground complex that I know of at the moment.

@Naomi: So you think that using the decanter will narrow down our choices as scum, either by killing somebody, or doing some effect to make them pro-town. You've stated before that it really is up to Hohum how he uses it, but lynching/not lynching is purely an overall opinion by the town by nature. But even then, you're more of the opinion that it is a kill type mechanic, and therefore should go to somebody scummy looking. Another thing: who knows what the next item will be? Perhaps it'll be a shovel, or a painting, or a ring, or a twig, or whatever. The nature of the item can also give us clues, while having a mysterious liquid gives us nothing really to work on.

Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Blerg, I see this as a weak debate to start the game.

Listen people, there are people that regardless allignment, they will always choose to take risks.

And there are always people that regardless allignment, they will always choose to be conservative about risks.

I could bet that at this point there are both scum and town in the "omg, dont drink it" group and both town and scum in the "yey drink it" group

Also, where did the mod say that this game would be unfair to the town?

Agree'd, pretty much everyone has stated whether they want to use it or not. They have also made cases for how it should be used. And in that regard I find it to be a waste of time to argue about using it or not. Because as Tajo said, some people aren't going to want to drink it and take the risk.

My thoughts to let hohum make the call has nothing to do with misdeeds, it's just a matter of getting the detraction out of the way. The why I look at the decanter, if used, is useful. If not used, it isn't useful. If we keep trying to decide what to do with it, next to useless. The only use we're getting out of it right now, is pointing our fingers. But the probability that we point our fingers at the right person are slim.

[Naomi_Saotome]

At this point, volunteering is anti-town. There should be NO more volunteers.

I am starting to understand Xtoxm's argument more of an initial "acid test" just to be sure we aren't throwing away what is meant to help us.

Based on the above logic, I think that forcing it on the town's lynch candidate would make sense.

Agree'd once again... seeing as I've said this once already.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.

Let me get this straight. So, your saying that in all probability this will have a negative effect. And that it is likely it will be given to the town. So that there is a good chance that the town as a whole or individually will suffer because one of us drinks it. Yet, you are advocating that we should drink it. We do not know if we need these to win, chances are we don't.

Unvote, Vote: Naomi

No I did not say that its likely to be given to a townie. So, you're contradicting yourself in your statement. We don't know what it's affects are. Good or bad. Yet you assume I think it's bad for the town. Which really means you think it's bad for the town. I did not say 'in all probability' I said that it's likely to have a negative affect, but it is also likely that it can help us. And I do believe I stated that we don't know what these items do many times. I do believe that using it will help us, regardless of what the decanter's contents actually do.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Well according to Lamont it should go to you. However I feel like taking a risk. It could be amazingly benficial.

I can't argue with what the town wants.
And you're right, the risk could be beneficial. I see that as worth the risk, and others see it as not worth it. But if we don't take some risks, we're likely to get nowhere.

[Naomi_Saotome]

*Awaits Pyro case*
A lot of people agree with you... I think you're going over the top and you're a little bit pushy...

Fos Pyro

[Naomi_Saotome]

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.

In the first part of the post she says that it should be entirely hohum's decision. This is incredible scummy, would it make sense to put the fate of the village into one random person's hands? No. We should not even attempt to control what he does with it. Yet in the second part of the post she says that Xtoxm should drink it, even though she should be in no way responsible for suggesting the idea. If you don't get it, then it is like suggesting a lynch and not being responsible if it kills you vig. Basically, she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

I didn't say we should let him have his way with every single point in this game. Simply that from where I stand, in THIS instance, I think it's the best choice.

Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.

In this post Naomi states that it will probably kill someone or do something bad for them. She still says that we should drink it.

So would lynching someone... we have no choice but to vote for someone... are you saying that it's a bad idea to lynch then?

No I did not say that its likely to be given to a townie. So, you're contradicting yourself in your statement. We don't know what it's affects are. Good or bad. Yet you assume I think it's bad for the town. Which really means you think it's bad for the town. I did not say 'in all probability' I said that it's likely to have a negative affect, but it is also likely that it can help us. And I do believe I stated that we don't know what these items do many times. I do believe that using it will help us, regardless of what the decanter's contents actually do.

In this post she says that it is not likely that it will be given to a townie. Remember that in the first quote she said that she someone should drink it because they volunteered?

Yes, I said he was the first person to volunteer... and that if the town thinks it should be used
a) volunteer
b) lynch suspect
I don't agree with the town randomly picking who drinks it... because we get no information about why it was used. An I did not say that it won't be a townie, now you're putting words in my mouth. I said that we don't know who it'll be used on.

Agree'd once again... seeing as I've said this once already

yes, I repeated the fact that I think it might be a good idea to pick someone else as an option. Only for everyone to have a different idea to go off of, not to make a contradiction with my earlier statement. I'm entitled to my opinion on the matter, as I have already stated. But I also have the right to say if I agree or disagree with the ideas someone else. Seeing as we've all done that, I don't understand how you find that scumie...

In this post, Naomi is agreeing that the volunteering system is anti-town. Yet, in the first post she suggests Xtoxm because he was a volunteer, supporting the volunteering system.

From these post, you can conclude that Naomi:
A. Supports the volunteering system
B. Is against the volunteering system
C. Thinks we should all be sheep to hohum
D. Wants an opinion, but does not want to be responsible for it
E. Admits that the item will probably be bad, yet wants us to drink it anyways

I missed several posts.

Also Naomi, Lamont asked.

By this point I've noticed you're putting words in my mouth and you seem like you're trying to steer the game in favor of your vote.
I find that scumie behavior...

[Naomi_Saotome]

Well I don't see why someone's putting words in my mouth... I'm not looking to wash my hands of any misdeeds. I was stating how it's up to hohum to use it or not, seeing as hohum is gone right now no one knows what he intends to do at this point. But the last thing he said was that he wasn't willing to use it.

I'm not saying we shouldn't use it, I don't agree with him there. But there's a lot of other people saying that we should just let it go unused. I'm not sure that ignoring something like this is a good idea, even if we don't know what it might do. It'd be like advocating no lynch D1. We've got to take risks at some point. But the question is what risks do we take?

The way I see it we can pressure him to use it, and tell him what to do with it, but he doesn't have to do it. Not doing what we say to will probably lead to many votes for his lynching. Which is all I was really saying. The majority wants to use it and I would have to agree.
I just don't know about a random dice roll as the decision.

this is noncommittal in almost every way, in addition to the fact you have just parroted a lot of other people's statements. Naomi, if you were hohum, what would you do with the elixir?

If I was hohum, I'd drink it myself or let the town decided. Depending on what everyone wanted.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Maybe when he gets back, we'll be able to stop debating on what

should

be done with the decanter, and finally get it done and move on.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Actually Pyro, that's not the first time you've appeared to make a slip-up and tried to cover your tracks... and after you stated that you simply forgot to post it, I left it alone. I could completely see the logic in what you did after you explained. I understood your action, but you decided to follow through and attempt to discredit me, hohum is right. That is suspicious....

[Naomi_Saotome]

Lamont, why me? lol.

---

Still...

For Naomi

Before

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

After

If I was hohum, I'd drink it myself or let the town decided. Depending on what everyone wanted.

So... are you saying you

want

him to be solely responsible? ...

No, I'm saying that we can then, move on to more important matters.

I think the decanter banter is mostly tiring and useless at this point. I'll accept whatever decision the town is able to reach with consensus but from my chair here a consensus isn't likely to be reached. Too many widely varying opinions on what the best course of action is and why.

This isn't adding much to the scum hunting process anymore either. It's starting to become a huge distraction. I'm tempted to just do something with the damned thing and face the consequences (whatever they may be) just to get us to the point where we've moved on instead rehashing the arguments over and over again repetitively.

Thanks, I've been trying to say this many times... but it's been ignored. Because there was so much distraction going on.

Elixer votes:

Shadow
Siro
AJ

[Naomi_Saotome]

Ok, obviously a grudge match is brewing...

I think Lamont's just trying to bring up points of us to think about. Is he trying to steer the town? No, probably not. Lamont, I can see you defending your case against hohums attacks, but why did you decide to bite his bait and describe him as anti-town?

Hohum, you've brought up some very good points to think about, he's likely to be as defensive as anyone else. While I see both your arguments as valid, it seems a bit distracting from the point you stated in 684. Why do you feel the need to pick him apart now, if you feel Pyro is a more important target?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Pyro, the point would be the reason he felt the need to post anything... which seems like it was to cause a stir by pointing a finger at you and Lamont

[Naomi_Saotome]

Oh dear, it looks like that shell's going to be bad news...
Lamont why did you pick up the shell?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Not thinking in this game is a very bad thing...

[Naomi_Saotome]

How can you say that about every time I post Sironi?
It seems like you're not reading all my posts...

And I noticed several people who were very opportunistic on voting for me, and only 2 of them defended their reasoning. You look like you're jumping the gun... I'm rereading Lamont's posts so I can make a decision for myself, not jumping on someone's waggon...

[Naomi_Saotome]

For now... I think its safe to assume that it's going to get worse.

[Naomi_Saotome]

In post 771 Amished stated he has summer activities

[Naomi_Saotome]

Steph, you're grasping at straws demanding that he promise not to use it... even if he did promise not to use it, doesn't mean that he actually will do it. I don't see why you're making such a big deal over it, since he agreed not to use it, on 2 conditions... which you wouldn't agree to either... It sounds to me that you want it both ways...
You want him to stop using it so that no longer have a reason to suspect him, and you want him to use the sign, so that it looks obvious that he's scum.

You've been suspicious of him from the early stages of this game, and I can see your reasoning behind some of them, but I don't see the logic in the devil smiley...

[Naomi_Saotome]

correct me if I'm wrong... but this was your 3rd post of the game, since you replaced.... Second if you don't count the confirmation post...

If you had the opportunity to pick a recpient now, who would it be and why?

I say give it to Lamont. He's been posting a lot and seems to want to control the game, so it'll be good to throw a wrench into things to try and determine if he's town or if he has scumbuddies.

I did not say you were overly suspicious... jut that you were early in the game

[Naomi_Saotome]

Ugh well, deadline sucks. I can see Naomi as she herself defended several people and ignored others.

unvote; vote Naomi Saotome

I want to see what the shell does anyways.

Who else would you like to see me defend? I defend who I get a townie read off of.

Why is everyone after me now? I'd like to hear a good case to back up these votes.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Claim

[Naomi_Saotome]

Well, it's going to make things really interesting to say the least...

[Naomi_Saotome]

You think there's much of a chance anyone else will be waying in before the deadline tonight?

Claim Trilby

[Naomi_Saotome]

What are your powers if you are indeed Trilby?

I will give more only if more requests are made

[Naomi_Saotome]

Yes I know lamont, but there are some things I don't trust, I wanted more people to way in...

But with the truth out there it might be easier to find the real scum....

Trilby power's are Immune to night kill

[Naomi_Saotome]

How surprising, the absolute easiest role to fakeclaim. And look--Lamont's calling to give away the real Trilby, or lynch me, either of which would be bad!

(Yes, there's a chance Naomi's claim is legit, but it's a very small one in my opinion. 19 players in the game, and the obvious fakeclaim for anyone who's done a bit of research just so happens to come up first)

You seem to forget that the chances of Trilby ACTUALLY being in this game are VERY high.

ARRRGH!

Do I? That's actually the crux of my argument. Players are believing her, she's hoping to get the real Trilby to come out, and you are actually encouraging that.

Lets see them step forward then...
Wouldn't scum want Trilby gone?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Trilby is the protagonist in 3? of the 4 games. So he's very much so a main pro-town character just out of the theme.

@Naomi: You're only NK-proof? That's all?

Correct Amished

[Naomi_Saotome]

So you're saying you expected a cop like role as well?

[Naomi_Saotome]

@amished bulletproof/1-shot cop

@steph Why wouldn't the mafia want Trilby out of the picture, day one?

Major FoS: Steph

[Naomi_Saotome]

Steph I was referring to your post in 1034

It would seem unreal for the mafia to want keep such a player in the game... the longer they keep said player around, the more dangerous it would be for them.

No, It went without saying before...

[Naomi_Saotome]

No, simply correcting you where you're wrong...

Look at the original people who voted to lynch me... after I poked at Pyro...

[Naomi_Saotome]

As I said, I felt it went without saying. My apologies for miss posting because I felt that it went without saying

[Naomi_Saotome]

Oh give it a rest... Steph.
You're starting to make little sense to me

[Naomi_Saotome]

Go ahead and think, I think there's been a lot of people failing to do that throughout the game so far... to many people just jumping in and riding someone's wagon.

Anyone who doesn't feel it's a real claim is free to make their own choices... be it good or bad. You're responsible for your actions in the end...

[Naomi_Saotome]

I believe the mod is never wrong


If I'm wrong they'd better appear soon to way in on the situation... some serious thinking needs to be done

[Naomi_Saotome]

One thing is for sure, we need Naomi to talk more. Answer these questions, please:

1) What made you think it would be assumed that your role included a 1-shot cop?

2) When asked directly if your only ability was NK immune, why did you say yes when you are supposedly a 1-shot cop as well?

3) How many mafia games have you played?

4) Have you ever played a game that had a NK immune role, and did that person have a 1-shot cop ability? Please reference the game unless it is ongoing.

1- Trilby is the hero, main character who continues through the game... investigating and unraveling the entire storyline to find the culprit.

2-I was answering the first part of his question, not the question as a whole

3- Amished is correct here...

[Naomi_Saotome]

I was also alerted to the fact that eventually the town will start to go insane, so to speak. To prevent the reality shift into probably a more "bastardized" version of the game probably favoring the evil faction more, I will need to give up some of my protections. In this regard, I view myself to be highly important, and if the scum have a roleblocker, I'm also hoping that we have another doc besides me, just in case. Since I have multiple protections at this point in the game, I can basically cover for another doc role so that if I get RB'd and targetted for a NK, I still wouldn't die. I'm almost always against directing a power role, but with the way the game looks to be set up to me, this is one case where I'm breaking that personal rule.

That makes me wonder if the shell might do something other then just kill Lamont....

[Naomi_Saotome]

of course the mod wouldn't want to make this role too powerful... besides, he did say that this game would be slightly swayed... did he not?

[Naomi_Saotome]

As I posted in 1101, I was replying to the first half of amished's question, not all of it... I should have included the 1-shot cop at the beginning of my claim... I realized that... but once I had posted it there was nothing I could do to changed it no matter how I included it afterwords, would have seemed suspicious. But I felt everyone should know that it was part of the role. Amished gave me the best option apart from completely leaving it out of the claim.

I don't believe how anyone can believe Naomi's claim at all. Analysis to follow once I've woke up.

OK WE NEED PEOPLE OFF HER OR A CC NAO!

If this claim is true the

Stepho

lynch is looking good about now.

ARRRGH!

Complete contradicting statements.. You have said your read was townie before, but you wait until after day 1 to peruse a case against me? Which doesn't make sense since you virtually ignored other peoples claims on me till now...

I don't like how you lied about the shell... I was pretty sure it wasn't going to kill you, but I didn't think you were lying about it... Now that I do, that's extremely scummy. You are trying to control the game...

Lamont_Cranston

[Naomi_Saotome]

EBWOP

vote: Lamont_Cranston

[Naomi_Saotome]

Questions for Lamont:

Was your post restriction (only being able to vote and say ARGH) given to you by the mod or did you fabricate that?

Depending on the answer, I have a lot more questions.

@Everyone who is voting to vig Naomi - do you not believe Amished when he says he has protected her for today and a vig of her would not work?

As bad as Naomi's claim was, there is a chance it was due to her being a newbie rather than being scum. I am still undecided about her. She certainly needs to be posting more.

@Naomi: Who did you investigate last night and what was the result? Also, why are you in this game if you have not completed a newbie game?

Frankly, if this really is her very first game ever, I think she should be replaced rather than vigged or lynched. If she really is Trilby and just screwed up her claim due to newbishness, it is quite unfair for the town.

(Sorry for the brief absence...)
No I did not investigate, although I was tempted to... I decided to wait till tonight because I want the town's input on my choice...

[Naomi_Saotome]

No, I'm trying to help the town...
If I made a choice and picked someone, found out they were town... were lynched and confirmed as town... we would have then lost 3 townies...

IF I were faking my role claim I could easily convince scum to allow themselves to be lynched and then my role looks valid... The way to go is by letting the town pick!


If everyone picks someone scummy, I investigate and we lynch that person our chances of getting scum are stronger because everyone votes should be for the scummiest looking person(s)...

Besides, say I did look into it... I was lynched, or dayvig and you find out you killed Trilby?

The only good that comes of using the 1-shot now, is for my role to be confirmed...
But so far you all are buying scum garbage... you all will shoot yourselves in the foot at this rate

My advice has for the most part been ignored... Dayvig or lynch me... you'll regret it

[Naomi_Saotome]

Yes, I'm aware that I should have voiced my opinion on the 1-shot earlier... but I ran out of time to do so, due to life factors...

[Naomi_Saotome]

I wish this could have been discussed before the deadline and done before the deadline of day one... but didn't happen that way. So we're going to have to deal with it today.

[Naomi_Saotome]

I will be using it tonight, provided I'm not lynched before then...
what I want to know is...
Do I investigate my own pick?
OR
Does everyone in the town want to pick?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Well, I see two people on the vig list right now that I'd vote for... but I'm going to have to pick one.

Vig vote:

Sironi

[Naomi_Saotome]

Amished 1174:

I do want to point out that since hohum's life was extended for a day (and I lived), they don't have a roleblocker (either faction/player in the case of an SK).

And that kids, is that. I also reread your exchange starting off my suspicions with Amished and get what you're getting at now. You did say that Amished was blessed with such a 'shoddy' town because he has not been lynched yet, however, when dealing with such a potentially powerful role, don't you think the town as a whole would err on the side of caution?

My pressure on you has also yielded a few interesting things, including showing the minimalist/opportunistic/non-reading (*cough*...heh...*cough*) nature of some people. Pyro went ahead and voted Setael even after he realized that she was not SKnight's replacement. There's no questioning, reasoning, or probing there and a great deal of what he's done is fly around from person to person to person with his vote. Paired with the way I remember he followed Lamont to me early in Day 1 (along with Naomi), I'm comfortable with:

unvote, vote Pyro

unvote, vote Zwet

(well, come on, he's just useless and you know the scum ain't gonna NK him)

Yes Pablo, not only has he bounced from person to person... he's pretty much been a lurker... His few posts have been to say I am scum, and then disappear again. He then reappears, make a few posts on who he thinks might be scum, and then distract everyone by making posts with little to no content in them...
I've said this before...

FoS:Pyro

[Naomi_Saotome]

@Pyro, you're pulling for my lynch really hard, aren't you?

I can see the case on Devastation...
Right now I see three targets for my 1-shot
some of which are on the vig list...

[Naomi_Saotome]

I want to know when you decided that I was scum? Was it when you saw my claim, or was it my stance on the Decanter? All in all, you came out right and said I had to die, before you really had evidence to back it up... then you disappeared after people stopped siding with you, only to re-appear when you thought you had more to incriminate me on.. You're lurking scum...

[Naomi_Saotome]

What? That has nothing to do with the fact that he's been gunning for me before anyone really knew anything about me, he's been popping in only often enough to look like he's contributing to the game and then he disappears again...

Well, until there's a counterclaim, or until I'm confirmed in my role, there's no real way to know, now is there?

[Naomi_Saotome]

There is only one thing we know for sure about each others roles, assuming hohum's role does not say that the goblet is not harmful, if he is scum then I am town. We cannot trust anybodies random. I think that the person who has the most votes, with FoS counting as half a vote, should be forced to drink it.

Hohum is confirmed town... Pyro you might be town or scum...
And you jumped down my throat for my comment in 369... as far as memory serves, you hadn't though me suspicious until after that..
You also threw my opinion, and reasoning behind it, right out the window... when I thought the town was wasting it's time arguing about the decanter... It ended up costing us, but gave us a confirmed innocent. Hohum was right about it being distracting the way everyone was arguing about it, so he drank it... He is confirmed innocent, my role has yet to be confirmed, but when it does... Will the town trust me?

Pyro isn't lurking like some people who have recently been replaced, but he seems to be conveniently missing during some points of discussion.

----

Xtoxm your sig comment ... It is hard to read

[Naomi_Saotome]

Trilby ends up being more of a puppet then anything, as I believe was mentioned already... perhaps there is another cop role out there, one yet to be confirmed?

Trilby is constantly being guided simply by luck, he's lucky to end up in Chzo manor, and lucky to find the culprit at the end of the game...

[Naomi_Saotome]

considering it ended up hurting hohum more then anything else... I don't see how you can make the relation to lynching... it was just like a day vig item. The only reason I said we should let him make the decision was because every was making a fuss on whether or not it should be used. I felt that we could gain more information that way, then if we continued to argue about it.

Suspicious because I called you on a post, which I later deemed competently reasonable, but you continued to bandwagon me?

And what if my role does come up innocent Pyro?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Trilby ends up being more of a puppet then anything, as I believe was mentioned already... perhaps there is another cop role out there, one yet to be confirmed?

Trilby is constantly being guided simply by luck, he's lucky to end up in Chzo manor, and lucky to find the culprit at the end of the game...

And you're an expert at the game. This is a cinch...

No I'm not an expert, but I did take some time to do some research. I then used some logic and some reasoning in there. The person playing the game determines what happens to Trilby based off of how they play...

[Naomi_Saotome]

Lamont:
Now you're asking me to make a fake claim on top of a claim you think to be fake? The mod said that this game was in no way meant to be fair to the town, and that it would require us to actually think.

With that being said, Pyro:
arguing in mafia is not bad, but arguing of things senselessly and coming to no solid answers is not good. That's what I saw happening.. and it's still going on... and will be till the game ends. The idea is to find those who are creating the senseless arguing that leads us nowhere...

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true." This means that you are
A. Scum.
B. have a case of extremely short term memory loss.
As you appear to have a decant memory, we can eliminate B.

However improbable, must be true... but your answers are incorrect so you will come to an incorrect conclusion as a result of incorrect thinking.

A. I'm scum
B. I'm new and have made errors that scum are jumping on

Now that the answers are a little more accurate, would you still say B should be eliminated?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Lamont, I don't understand why you're tying to out-guess the mod... it seems extremely wasteful, since we have no way of knowing what he was thinking when he did anything while setting up this game...

And more over, I think that pushing for me to change my claim is a waste of time and another distraction. Whether or not my 1-shot claim was legit, changing it to say I really am a 5-shot doesn't mean anything... it just means that I changed my story. A waste of time, and a major distraction...

I have my eye on you Lamont... Are you controlling the game and distracting it at the same time...???

FoS Lamont

[Naomi_Saotome]

I'm being asked to re-vote? I'll have to go over and look at the cases for the top three candidates, I will vig vote again soon

[Naomi_Saotome]

Yes, but that means I'm going to have to join a wagon, for the sake of progress. I'm not happy about having to do so, but I'm not interested in voting for someone and having my vote wasted I'm here to help the town, not hinder it... Keeping my vote the way it was would be a complete waste.

With that being said:

Vig-vote: Devastation

[Naomi_Saotome]

I intended to post my reasons last night, but I was starting to fall asleep at computer.

My reasons can be found in posts:

1533

Shouldnt have to post my reasons at this time.

Considering Devestation jumps on and off his vote on Setael, an explanation why he changed his vote, yet again... is very much in order.

1591

Can we vig already...

Pushes for Setael's vig without explaining his reasonings

1502

The deadline is on the 5th. It could take a while for AJ to get replaced. Dev didn't vote last on the lynch last time. We do NOT want a repeat of yesterday.

As for not voting for anyone at the end of the day, I can give you no excuse, and won't waste my time trying to create one.

The reason why I didnt lay a vote on either day 1 was because I was unable to re-read the game.

As for not voting for anyone at the end of the day, I can give you no excuse, and won't waste my time trying to create one.

The reason why I didnt lay a vote on either day 1 was because I was unable to re-read the game.

In Devestation's on words he said he would make a decision in 24 hours, who he was voting for, but then failed to do so... he goes on to say that he has no excuse for not voting, but he gives us one anyway.

So he decides to pick a vote without explaining his most recent decision, and pushes to kill Setael as quickly as possible?

Please explain yourself Devestation

[Naomi_Saotome]

no, I was actually replying to Lamont's post not yours, I hadn't even seen your post until after I had already posted...

I have seen a lot of people calling out Setael, but I don't see anything that I find particularly scummy. I'll have to look over your posts and hers while I wait for Devestations reply

[Naomi_Saotome]

^^^ I'm starting to believe that too...

I don't know what to think on Pyro though... (I may have attacked him quite a bit, but I find the way he's playing to be very poor)
He's playing like Hohum in a lot of ways... but I can't say if it's good or bad.

[Naomi_Saotome]

As I stated before, I didn't use my 1-shot last night phase, because I wanted to know what the town felt would be best.

I could have used it with no real basis other then to confirm my role. I never got a time to ask if the target should be my choice or the towns before night fell.

I have heard from one person on this matter, it was said that I should make the decision alone tonight, and explain my reasons tomorrow.

Does the town agree with this?
If not, why not?

[Naomi_Saotome]

What do you actually think is most likely?
A. Lamont-town, Stepho-town
B. Lamont-scum, Stepho-town
C. Lamont-town, Stepho-scum
D. Lamont-scum, Stepho-scum
E. Something else

My feeling leans towards E, B, and A


I think Stepho is refering to post 1206...
Where KoC explains why, as he put it ...allowed players with less than normal experience to participate in this game...

Nyx I hope you're back on Monday!

[Naomi_Saotome]

Well, I just got done reading that mess...
with that whole episode over with...

Damn it Buddha!

Unvote, Vote: Dev

[Naomi_Saotome]

In regards to post:
2405
I don't think you're the only one who has...

Naomi

, please respond to Stepho''s claim.

Elmo

, if possible, could you a full role PM claim? You''re one of the two reasons as of now why I''m not voting him.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier... it's been a crazy week for me.

As I said before, I'm Trilby,

Naomi

, please respond to Stepho''s claim.

Elmo

, if possible, could you a full role PM claim? You''re one of the two reasons as of now why I''m not voting him.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier... it's been a crazy week for me.

As I said before, I'm Trilby, gentalman theif...
My pm says something along these lines: You are protected from malignant beings in the house.... You win when threats to the humans are eliminated

[Naomi_Saotome]

In regards to post:
2405
I don't think you're the only one who has...

Naomi

, please respond to Stepho''s claim.

Elmo

, if possible, could you a full role PM claim? You''re one of the two reasons as of now why I''m not voting him.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier... it's been a crazy week for me.

As I said before, I'm Trilby,

Naomi

, please respond to Stepho''s claim.

Elmo

, if possible, could you a full role PM claim? You''re one of the two reasons as of now why I''m not voting him.

Sorry I didn't respond earlier... it's been a crazy week for me.

As I said before,

I'm Trilby, gentalman theif

...
My pm says something along these lines: You are protected from malignant beings in the house.... You win when threats to the humans are eliminated

*pat, pat*
Don't worry. The lynch won't hurt much. Next time, you should read each post from Stepho before commenting. Here, he claimed indeed gentelman thief. Next post, it was 'infamous gentleman thief'. Please explain why you claimed gentelman thief, while according to Stepho, this isn't correct.
I don't recall stepho claiming that his PM said those words exactly... he seemed to be adding them for clarification... as if he was assuming that they should have been in there...

Also, does your role PM state your allignment? If so, what is it?

It says nothing about specific alignment, (or being innocent) It does, however, mention that I probably don't deserve to be here....

[Naomi_Saotome]

according to my pm, it says nothing about infamous... it just says Trilby, Gentleman thief.

So tell me Pyro, why are you pushing Dramonic, but voting for Stepho, and yet you state Roc or Stepho are the only clear lynches.... why do you bring Dramonic into the picture if you think he's not a likely candidate?

[Naomi_Saotome]

How come you aren't voting one of the main bandwagons with deadline approaching? I especially want to hear the answer for this question regarding Stepho. As according to you, he's wrong with the claimed result.
Also, if you disagree with one of the main wagons (which appears to be the case as you're not voting one of them), how come you aren't pushing the one you want to see lynched?

I have been taking the time to go over two choices and pick one to place my vote upon.

As of now, I don't know if Stepho was caught fake-claiming... or that he made the mistake of using the word 'innocent' simply to describe himself as town, as apposed to scum.

The fact that Amished and I did not say 'innocent' is because we posted after the Mod made the clarification. Why would we have said that we were innocent, when clearly innocents are not associated with power-roles...
Stepho never had that chance as he posted before the term innocent was given a specific definition.

Because he did not know what innocent meant, I will discard this to ponder later. If someone can give me another reason to vote Stepho that does not involve this argument, I'll consider voting Stepho. Until then I have no reason not to believe his claim.

lol, pyro is bloodthirsty

Pyro's playstyle has been nothing but bloodthirsty...

Naomi says stepho is scum.

don't misquote me and put words in my mouth... You keep doing this, It's quite irritating. I don't know if he is scum or not... I was stating that he was mistaken.
Every time I try to understand you and read you as town... you do something like this..
You keep trying to tie me in with Stepho. It's like you want Stepho to come up scum, so that I look like scumbuddy... if Stepho comes up town, I still look like scum. Personally if Stepho comes out town, I will probably follow up on Stepho's read in post 1688... If Stepho comes out scum I will probably look into Pyro/Xtoxm as possible scumbuddies

[Naomi_Saotome]

Hello, and thanks for the question.
I really felt that this statement needed to be made, as it implies that one is 'good' aligned... though as we have seen, innocents are caught in the struggle between good and evil. Trilby is very much caught up in the struggle. In regards to this matter, we find out that every 'innocent' is caught up in this struggle.

None of them deserve to die, they're just sheep for the slaughter... I believe that innocent implies that they are townies, who got stuck in the house... for some reason or another.... obviously someone is pulling at the strings, but why? What do they want...

[Naomi_Saotome]

sorry if that sounds kinda confusing, my mind is starting to shut down on me... time for bed, I have to work in the morning...

[Naomi_Saotome]

naomi wrote:
If Stepho comes out scum I will probably look into Pyro/Xtoxm as possible scumbuddies

Where are you getting this conclusion? Xtoxm and Pyro have pushed Stepho's lynch harder than anyone. If anything, they're maybe scum if he's really our cop but if he's scum they are NOT likely scum buddies imo.

It's possible they wanted townie points, as Stepho said:

2. You know what I'd do if I were scum in this position? I'd sacrifice a fellow scum to try and prove myself. Why not count on that and leave me be for now?

3. It's worth noting that Pyromaniac claimed that Naomi said I'm scum. She did no such thing. My PM specifically says "infamous gentleman thief", and because Naomi's apparently says "gentleman thief" only, you think that is lynch worthy?

[Naomi_Saotome]

I investigated Devestation. He is also innocent.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Mainly because of how he played during the vig yesterday.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Mainly because of how he played during the vig yesterday.

Did you miss his claim, which also later had some flavour with it?:

The general gist of it is "your innocent, you really shouldnt be here but you are, get rid of the evil, you have a vote and your brains".

You mised the reason why ppl left the Deves wagon?

No, I saw two possible targets for me to pick from...
I could confirm Stepho or confirm Deves.

I chose Deves...

[Naomi_Saotome]

In my opinion, innocent implies that their alignment is pro-town... as we have found... innocents have no other role... why would there be anything else mentioned in the pm?

[Naomi_Saotome]

Also, thinking about Naomi''s claim, I checked her flavour claim again:

My pm says something along these lines:

You are protected from malignant beings in the house

.... You win when threats to the humans are eliminated

What she has claimed explains the part about being unnightkillable (see bolded). But this flavour claim doesn''t mention anything about a 1-shot cop ability.
Naomi, how come?

why are you bringing the 1-shot up again?

There was no reason to mention my 1-shot... I was discussing alignment.

[Naomi_Saotome]

I'm still reading the linked post, I'll respond when I finish

[Naomi_Saotome]

My pm says something along these lines:

You are protected from malignant beings in the house

.... You win when threats to the humans are eliminated

The bold text:

Protected from Malignant beings= protected from threats to the humans

:arrow: Therefor implying I'm on the town's side ZazieR....

[Naomi_Saotome]

As of now, I don't know if Stepho was caught fake-claiming... or that he made the mistake of using the word 'innocent' simply to describe himself as town, as apposed to scum.

So why do you think he''d claim ''allignment''?

again, Stepho obviously didn't know what alignment meant when he posted. I find it likely that he saw the 'fellow innocents' and thought that meant he was one as well.

The fact that Amished and I did not say 'innocent' is because we posted after the Mod made the clarification. Why would we have said that we were innocent, when clearly innocents are not associated with power-roles...
Stepho never had that chance as he posted before the term innocent was given a specific definition.

Please respond to my argument of him being a role cop after Stepho has responded to it.

I can see from Stepho's post that he got information regarding my role. Does that mean that he is absolutely without a doubt town? No! Does that mean, as the only alternative he is absolutely without a doubt, scum role cop? No...
As I have noticed looking back, Stepho's actions seem like any town cop would... as Lamont himself said.
So far we have seen three PR claims that had room for scum to wiggle around in... let them jump on these opportunities...

Because he did not know what innocent meant, I will discard this to ponder later. If someone can give me another reason to vote Stepho that does not involve this argument, I'll consider voting Stepho. Until then I have no reason not to believe his claim.

Well, you did find him scummy during day 1. I don''t think you''ve explained why these suspicions got dropped, so that would be nice to hear.
Also, as I already said, the part about him pushing the devil smiley argument against Lamont was scummy as he didn''t question him during his PR act.

Yes, I did find him scummy. But I had little information to go on... I didn't like the way he jumped on Lamont over the smiley. It seemed distracting and wasteful, but it was an attempt at scum hunting. I give him points for that.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Also,

Naomi

For clarification, your result was that Deves is innocent? If not, what was your result?

Yes. Do you have anything else you would like to pick apart?
I for one would like to hear from Pablo.

[Naomi_Saotome]

Last,

Naomi

, for clarification, you saw Deves claim and also his flavour claim, right?

I have answered this already...