The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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By your own words you have stated it's too early to be drawing conclusions, yet act very much the hypocrite... Your votes haven't seem to be random at all....hohum wrote:
Do you think the natural course of a game with 19 people in it (most of whom haven't chimed in yet BTW) warrants drawing conclusions 3 pages into day 1?Lamont_Cranston wrote:Conclusions are a natural result of the flow of the game which begins when the first pixel hits after day 1 begins.
Right, so what conclusions have you drawn? Because when you say stuff like:Lamont_Cranston wrote:The question is, "What conclusion have I drawn?"
And the answer is, "We shall see."
It would lead one to believe within a reasonable degree of accuracy that you have A) drawn a conclusion and B) felt justified in your vote.Lamont_Cranston wrote:2) I like the way she is thinking here and because of that I have joined her on the best vote I can see this early in the game.
Therefore my vote is no longer "random".
If you're just full shit and you're really not happy with your vote that's fine too. Just say so. Nobody is going to pester you about a vote change this early in the game.
Being all mysterious about your intentions by repeating my questions is not the right approach, though.-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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It did get discussion going, but I wonder if you were hoping that we would all start tearing ourselves apart with our own words...Shadow Knight wrote:I never said I advocate a no lynch. I just asked what people thought about it to try and get some kind of discussion going. It was either that or ask what people thought about a mass claim. *shrug* no one has done anything overtly scummy yet.
FoS Shadow Knight-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.
But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Actually Lamont has stated that it would be a bad idea to not lynch day oneLamont_Cranston wrote:
Anyone who advocates NL Day 1 is advocating an advantage for the Mafi. Basically its like saying, "Let's pretend D1 never happened".Shadow Knight wrote:we need to generate discussion. how does everyone feel about no lynches?
Why would you even think of advocating this?
I think Sajin, he finds you to be scum-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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I'm still for letting hohum decide what to do with it. If he chooses to use it, he has to explain his reasons for making that choice. If he decides not to use it, he'll have to give us some logical reasoning for not using it... and so on.Pyromaniac wrote:We cannot do random. This is not because I was selected by the random but, even if shadow knight was selected I would say the same thing. There is one reason for this, the possibility of whomever does the random being scum. We would not get a random result, we would get a result that DEFIANTLY did not say to give it to one of their scumbuddies. There is only one thing we know for sure about each others roles, assuming hohum's role does not say that the goblet is not harmful, if he is scum then I am town. We cannot trust anybodies random. I think that the person who has the most votes, with FoS counting as half a vote, should be forced to drink it. I do not know much about Chzo manor but, they would probably not give us two lynches. Now, I also doubt that they would give us a broken ability. It would be bad if it gave some good ability and we guessed right about the scum. I would be willing to risk that. Anyways, it seems more likely that this is supposed to balance the village in a detrimental way.
I also agree with the idea of giving the decanter contents to the person who receives the most fos (votes), thus far.
Rolling a dice and giving it to someone randomly doesn't help us in anyway... since we don't know what the contents will do to whoever drinks it. I think anyone advocating this is more then likely scum. By trying to control our and keep them random. Making it harder for us to scum hunt them.-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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I think we all can see that you refusing to drink it if you were chosen, would be a bad idea. What I don't understand is why you had to restate that fact and say it as if we couldn't figure that out...Pyromaniac wrote:If anyone is wondering why I am offering drink it is because me refusing to drink it and getting lynched will lead to a worse scenario almost 100% (town to mafia flip) of the time.
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agreed Lamont makes a good point...
Unvote, vote Pablo-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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The fact of the matter is, hohum has that power... itPyromaniac wrote:Also,FoS: Naimoi. For 287, giving one person to much power this early in the game is just a bad idea. I didn't see this until now.ishis choice to make, we can pressure him as much as we can, but if he doesn't follow the town's lead he's responsible. And WE have the power to undo that after he has made his decision...-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Well I don't see why someone's putting words in my mouth...Sironigous wrote:
Amished,Amished wrote: Xtoxm's rush to grab/drink/take the decanter is what has me worried
*snip*
are you implying you think other people have inside information about the decanter or items in general?
Ok so..
I still really don't care who drinks the decanter...
I agree with Alaska.
That's almost a complete relinquish of any responsibility for a misdeed. ;/Alabaska J wrote:Naomi_Saotome wrote:this is pure speculation...
but what if it gave him an advantage? Say he drinks it, and then he can see everyone's roles...
Seeing as we don't know if he's scum or townie... how does that help?
I think its Hohum's decision whether to use it or not.
wowNaomi_Saotome wrote:I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.
But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.vote: Naomi
Vote: Naomi
I'm not looking to wash my hands of any misdeeds. I was stating how it's up to hohum to use it or not, seeing as hohum is gone right now no one knows what he intends to do at this point. But the last thing he said was that he wasn't willing to use it.
I'm not saying we shouldn't use it, I don't agree with him there. But there's a lot of other people saying that we should just let it go unused. I'm not sure that ignoring something like this is a good idea, even if we don't know what it might do. It'd be like advocating no lynch D1. We've got to take risks at some point. But the question is what risks do we take?
The way I see it we can pressure him to use it, and tell him what to do with it, but he doesn't have to do it. Not doing what we say to will probably lead to many votes for his lynching. Which is all I was really saying. The majority wants to use it and I would have to agree.
I just don't know about a random dice roll as the decision.
On a side note, I am indeed a girl. If eveyone wants to refer to me as a he... I'm good with that too!-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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In my opinion the only relation to them is risk. Lynching narrows our probability's down makes it easier for us to find scum. With this decanter, and any future items... We're going to have to decide to use them or not. It's probably safe to assume that not all items found, are going to be good for the town. But we can't really make that call if we don't know what each item does. Do we therefore not use any item through out the game?-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.Amished wrote:@Devestation: I hold the same viewpoint, however you can't not drink it if Hohum decided to give it to you. So we're basically tying you down screaming. Now if this was a European mature movie, that might not be so bad. Unfortunately, we're in a manor with evil trying to kill us all.
I don't *think* that there's any sort of liquid that people really drink, or something found to drink other than the water that I talked about earlier. In the game, that was a puddle formed by like a leaky pipe or something, and nothing formal like anything in a cup. My project right now is to watch the playthroughs of them again and make sure though. If there is a precedent or anything to compare it to it'd probably be in the trilby's notes game (possibly in the flashback to the inn, which is where I'll be looking first). There's nothing that I can think of in the first one in the manor, nor in the future/space, nor in the underground complex that I know of at the moment.
@Naomi: So you think that using the decanter will narrow down our choices as scum, either by killing somebody, or doing some effect to make them pro-town. You've stated before that it really is up to Hohum how he uses it, but lynching/not lynching is purely an overall opinion by the town by nature. But even then, you're more of the opinion that it is a kill type mechanic, and therefore should go to somebody scummy looking. Another thing: who knows what the next item will be? Perhaps it'll be a shovel, or a painting, or a ring, or a twig, or whatever. The nature of the item can also give us clues, while having a mysterious liquid gives us nothing really to work on.-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Agree'd, pretty much everyone has stated whether they want to use it or not. They have also made cases for how it should be used. And in that regard I find it to be a waste of time to argue about using it or not. Because as Tajo said, some people aren't going to want to drink it and take the risk.populartajo wrote:Blerg, I see this as a weak debate to start the game.
Listen people, there are people that regardless allignment, they will always choose to take risks.
And there are always people that regardless allignment, they will always choose to be conservative about risks.
I could bet that at this point there are both scum and town in the "omg, dont drink it" group and both town and scum in the "yey drink it" group
Also, where did the mod say that this game would be unfair to the town?
My thoughts to let hohum make the call has nothing to do with misdeeds, it's just a matter of getting the detraction out of the way. The why I look at the decanter, if used, is useful. If not used, it isn't useful. If we keep trying to decide what to do with it, next to useless. The only use we're getting out of it right now, is pointing our fingers. But the probability that we point our fingers at the right person are slim.-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Agree'd once again... seeing as I've said this once already.Lamont_Cranston wrote:At this point, volunteering is anti-town. There should be NO more volunteers.
I am starting to understand Xtoxm's argument more of an initial "acid test" just to be sure we aren't throwing away what is meant to help us.
Based on the above logic, I think that forcing it on the town's lynch candidate would make sense.-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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No I did not say that its likely to be given to a townie. So, you're contradicting yourself in your statement. We don't know what it's affects are. Good or bad. Yet you assume I think it's bad for the town. Which really means you think it's bad for the town. I did not say 'in all probability' I said that it's likely to have a negative affect, but it is also likely that it can help us. And I do believe I stated that we don't know what these items do many times. I do believe that using it will help us, regardless of what the decanter's contents actually do.Pyromaniac wrote:
Let me get this straight. So, your saying that in all probability this will have a negative effect. And that it is likely it will be given to the town. So that there is a good chance that the town as a whole or individually will suffer because one of us drinks it. Yet, you are advocating that we should drink it. We do not know if we need these to win, chances are we don't.Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.Unvote, Vote: Naomi-
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I can't argue with what the town wants.NuevaVida wrote:Well according to Lamont it should go to you. However I feel like taking a risk. It could be amazingly benficial.
And you're right, the risk could be beneficial. I see that as worth the risk, and others see it as not worth it. But if we don't take some risks, we're likely to get nowhere.-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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By this point I've noticed you're putting words in my mouth and you seem like you're trying to steer the game in favor of your vote.Pyromaniac wrote:
In the first part of the post she says that it should be entirely hohum's decision. This is incredible scummy, would it make sense to put the fate of the village into one random person's hands? No. We should not even attempt to control what he does with it. Yet in the second part of the post she says that Xtoxm should drink it, even though she should be in no way responsible for suggesting the idea. If you don't get it, then it is like suggesting a lynch and not being responsible if it kills you vig. Basically, she wants to have her cake and eat it too.Naomi_Saotome wrote:I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.
But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.
I didn't say we should let him have his way with every single point in this game. Simply that from where I stand, in THIS instance, I think it's the best choice.
In this post Naomi states that it will probably kill someone or do something bad for them. She still says that we should drink it.Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.
So would lynching someone... we have no choice but to vote for someone... are you saying that it's a bad idea to lynch then?
In this post she says that it is not likely that it will be given to a townie. Remember that in the first quote she said that she someone should drink it because they volunteered?No I did not say that its likely to be given to a townie. So, you're contradicting yourself in your statement. We don't know what it's affects are. Good or bad. Yet you assume I think it's bad for the town. Which really means you think it's bad for the town. I did not say 'in all probability' I said that it's likely to have a negative affect, but it is also likely that it can help us. And I do believe I stated that we don't know what these items do many times. I do believe that using it will help us, regardless of what the decanter's contents actually do.
Yes, I said he was the first person to volunteer... and that if the town thinks it should be used
a) volunteer
b) lynch suspect
I don't agree with the town randomly picking who drinks it... because we get no information about why it was used. An I did not say that it won't be a townie, now you're putting words in my mouth. I said that we don't know who it'll be used on.Agree'd once again... seeing as I've said this once alreadyyes, I repeated the fact that I think it might be a good idea to pick someone else as an option. Only for everyone to have a different idea to go off of, not to make a contradiction with my earlier statement. I'm entitled to my opinion on the matter, as I have already stated. But I also have the right to say if I agree or disagree with the ideas someone else. Seeing as we've all done that, I don't understand how you find that scumie...
In this post, Naomi is agreeing that the volunteering system is anti-town. Yet, in the first post she suggests Xtoxm because he was a volunteer, supporting the volunteering system.
From these post, you can conclude that Naomi:
A. Supports the volunteering system
B. Is against the volunteering system
C. Thinks we should all be sheep to hohum
D. Wants an opinion, but does not want to be responsible for it
E. Admits that the item will probably be bad, yet wants us to drink it anyways
I missed several posts.
Also Naomi, Lamont asked.
I find that scumie behavior...-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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If I was hohum, I'd drink it myself or let the town decided. Depending on what everyone wanted.Alabaska J wrote:
this is noncommittal in almost every way, in addition to the fact you have just parroted a lot of other people's statements. Naomi, if you were hohum, what would you do with the elixir?Naomi_Saotome wrote:Well I don't see why someone's putting words in my mouth... I'm not looking to wash my hands of any misdeeds. I was stating how it's up to hohum to use it or not, seeing as hohum is gone right now no one knows what he intends to do at this point. But the last thing he said was that he wasn't willing to use it.
I'm not saying we shouldn't use it, I don't agree with him there. But there's a lot of other people saying that we should just let it go unused. I'm not sure that ignoring something like this is a good idea, even if we don't know what it might do. It'd be like advocating no lynch D1. We've got to take risks at some point. But the question is what risks do we take?
The way I see it we can pressure him to use it, and tell him what to do with it, but he doesn't have to do it. Not doing what we say to will probably lead to many votes for his lynching. Which is all I was really saying. The majority wants to use it and I would have to agree.
I just don't know about a random dice roll as the decision.-
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Actually Pyro, that's not the first time you've appeared to make a slip-up and tried to cover your tracks... and after you stated that you simply forgot to post it, I left it alone. I could completely see the logic in what you did after you explained. I understood your action, but you decided to follow through and attempt to discredit me, hohum is right. That is suspicious....-
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No, I'm saying that we can then, move on to more important matters.Sironigous wrote:Lamont, why me? lol.
Still...
For Naomi
Before
Naomi wrote:I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.After
So... are you saying youNaomi wrote:If I was hohum, I'd drink it myself or let the town decided. Depending on what everyone wanted.wanthim to be solely responsible? ...
Thanks, I've been trying to say this many times... but it's been ignored. Because there was so much distraction going on.I think the decanter banter is mostly tiring and useless at this point. I'll accept whatever decision the town is able to reach with consensus but from my chair here a consensus isn't likely to be reached. Too many widely varying opinions on what the best course of action is and why.
This isn't adding much to the scum hunting process anymore either. It's starting to become a huge distraction. I'm tempted to just do something with the damned thing and face the consequences (whatever they may be) just to get us to the point where we've moved on instead rehashing the arguments over and over again repetitively.
Elixer votes:
Shadow
Siro
AJ
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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Ok, obviously a grudge match is brewing...
I think Lamont's just trying to bring up points of us to think about. Is he trying to steer the town? No, probably not. Lamont, I can see you defending your case against hohums attacks, but why did you decide to bite his bait and describe him as anti-town?
Hohum, you've brought up some very good points to think about, he's likely to be as defensive as anyone else. While I see both your arguments as valid, it seems a bit distracting from the point you stated in 684. Why do you feel the need to pick him apart now, if you feel Pyro is a more important target?-
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How can you say that about every time I post Sironi?
It seems like you're not reading all my posts...
And I noticed several people who were very opportunistic on voting for me, and only 2 of them defended their reasoning. You look like you're jumping the gun... I'm rereading Lamont's posts so I can make a decision for myself, not jumping on someone's waggon...-
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Steph, you're grasping at straws demanding that he promise not to use it... even if he did promise not to use it, doesn't mean that he actually will do it. I don't see why you're making such a big deal over it, since he agreed not to use it, on 2 conditions... which you wouldn't agree to either... It sounds to me that you want it both ways...
You want him to stop using it so that no longer have a reason to suspect him, and you want him to use the sign, so that it looks obvious that he's scum.
You've been suspicious of him from the early stages of this game, and I can see your reasoning behind some of them, but I don't see the logic in the devil smiley...-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
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correct me if I'm wrong... but this was your 3rd post of the game, since you replaced.... Second if you don't count the confirmation post...
I did not say you were overly suspicious... jut that you were early in the gameStephoscope wrote:
I say give it to Lamont. He's been posting a lot and seems to want to control the game, so it'll be good to throw a wrench into things to try and determine if he's town or if he has scumbuddies.hohum wrote:If you had the opportunity to pick a recpient now, who would it be and why?-
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Who else would you like to see me defend? I defend who I get a townie read off of.Sajin wrote:Ugh well, deadline sucks. I can see Naomi as she herself defended several people and ignored others.unvote; vote Naomi Saotome
I want to see what the shell does anyways.
Why is everyone after me now? I'd like to hear a good case to back up these votes.-
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Naomi_Saotome
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
Lets see them step forward then...Stephoscope wrote:
Do I? That's actually the crux of my argument. Players are believing her, she's hoping to get the real Trilby to come out, and you are actually encouraging that.Lamont_Cranston wrote:
You seem to forget that the chances of Trilby ACTUALLY being in this game are VERY high.Stephoscope wrote:How surprising, the absolute easiest role to fakeclaim. And look--Lamont's calling to give away the real Trilby, or lynch me, either of which would be bad!
(Yes, there's a chance Naomi's claim is legit, but it's a very small one in my opinion. 19 players in the game, and the obvious fakeclaim for anyone who's done a bit of research just so happens to come up first)
ARRRGH!
Wouldn't scum want Trilby gone?-
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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Naomi_Saotome Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 113
- Joined: April 11, 2009
- Location: Frozen Minnesota
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