Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Isacc]

The brightly shining midday sun masked the rasping winds blowing from the riverbank as Abel Magebeater lifted his hood to take in the scenery. From the hilltop's vantage point, a humble village was barely perceptible, but three long days of travel gave the sight of his destination a rewarding feeling. A restless neighing suddenly shook the rider from his reverie.

"Calm yourself, Clarice," he whispered.

His enervated companion snorted in reply. The noble beast could not be blamed, its loyal service over the course of Abel's journey being nothing short of stoic.

"Only a little further."

The weary pair steadily descended into the cover of the woods, where the wind's bark was louder than its bite.

Wow, that's either just really creative or some crazy serious breadcrumbing, lmao.

So, you want to potentially out Aes Sedai, who in the mini were pro-town power roles?

Ok, you are neglecting two things. One; the Aes Sedai can be black Ajah, meaning they are darkfriends (scum) and unbound by the Oaths. Thus, if a person successfully hammers, and then claims Aes Sedai...they are lying.

Also,

Second, everyone in the world knows that Aes Sedai exist... but not everyone knows exactly what purpose they serve anymore. They were the cause of the Breaking after all...

This game takes place in a very different time period than the Mini. This is close after the Breaking, it seems, which may mean any number of things about Aes Sedai. Who knows how good, evil, or self-aligned the Aes Sedai will be this time around.


All that said, I think it's probably best to use this knowledge only to verify any Aes Sedai that end up having to claim.

Speaking of which, if this is anything like the mini, something that got forgotten after I had died in the last WoT mafia; if an Aes Sedai proves they cannot hammer,

they are confirmed town

. The reason they couldn't hammer is because they were bound by the oaths, and if they were bound by the oaths, they cannot be scum.

Just thought I'd point that out because I wanted to

scream

it back in WoT after I had died.

[Isacc]

Given Van Damien's role from last game (which tl;dr was a town role which may have gone insane), I didn't think it was out of the realm of possibility that there was a role bound by the no-lying post restriction that currently has a town win cond but may not in the future. If someone refused to say the second part of the sentence ("I am not aware of any circumstance in which I do not win with town."), that would be an indication that we'd probably need to either immediately or eventually get rid of them.

Yes, VanDamien could eventually become not-town. However, VanDamien wasn't bound to the three oaths.

The ONLY people bound to the three oaths are Aes Sedai, and the ONLY people in the entire books that could not lie were Aes Sedai. So, unless you can figure some reason why an Aes Sedai would suddenly become a SK or other non-town role, then this whole pursuit was pointless.

My beef with this is different though. ML, being in the mini, should have known that last time all this little plan did was distract the town and cause arguments over things that did not help scumhunting in the least.

So, I say,

FoS:MacavityLock

for distracting the town.

I do think it can only harm the game if people come in with a dislike towards a certain player simply for something as simple as a disagrement about playstyle.
WIt's a valid point, we're all human and we have bias, and I don't think we should have been allowed to speak before the game started, that's why I didn't, and I think what I said before is a valid point, not about this game but about mafia games in general.

I apologise for being vague before when I said we should be more clear with our questions, but I did actually have a point about the questions, I just failed to convey it.
What I was hinting at was the age old riddle.

"You stand at a fork in the road. Next to each of the two forks, there stands a guard. You know the following things: 1. One path leads to Paradise, the other to Death.
One of the two guards always tells the truth, and the other guard always lies.
Unfortunately, it is impossible for you to distinguish between the two guards.
You may ask one question to one guard. What do you ask?

I'm honestly not sure how to ask the question in this situation, but if we have a group who can't lie and a group who lie, we can use this, right?

I wasn't making a filler post, I can't figure out what the question would be, but I do know that with some smarts it could be effective.

Ok, this is bad. BAD. The group who can't lie is Aes Sedai,

pro-town

. Any sort of situation where we out the honest people is

an attempt to out pro-town power roles

.

[quote="Fabian]Aes Sedai have to tell the truth and darkfriends have to lie, so we can use that to our advantage.[/quote]

NO! WRONG! Aes Sedai have to tell the truth. Darkfriends do whatever the hell they want to. Your strategy here will ONLY out Aes Sedai. Bad bad bad baaaad.


I think we need to stop discussing schemes and plans to try and break the game in Day 1, and instead try looking for scum, yes? All this speculation is starting to make me uneasy...

[Isacc]

No, I was FoSing Shadow because I wasn't sure what he was getting at, and all I really wanted him to do was to explain what he wanted to happen a little more clearly, now if he has done that, I will gladly take off the FoS. My vote on Fabian is completely for trying to out Aes Sedai and for trying to find a way to implement a plan that would be very harmful to the town.

Looking back on the thread now, it has become clear that Shadow doesn't want to out the AS, so with that

UnFoS

, I apologize for any confusion as I had missed Shadow's post where it was clear he didn't want to out the AS.

Backpedaling. Enough said.

Upgrade:

Vote: MacavityLock

[Isacc]

Upgrade:

Vote: MacavityLock

Why?

Did you read my post? Backpedaling...duh.


Next, DO NOT lynch Fabian. I have about 100 reasons for this (exaggeration...)

1. There may be other Aes Sedai with less effective healing abilities who can protect him (see WoT Mini).

2. His claim is pretty solid. Wisdoms existed simply as town healers. (Well...and weathermen).

3. With the ability to sleep in different areas, there is a chance that a killing role does not pick the same place as him and thus he may be safe from death this night.

4. Better a scumlynch and power role NK than a power role lynch and another NK.

5. Yes, he played terribly and should NOT have claimed, however I see no reason for a scum to do this.


So, that said, I am surprised that people would pile on the votes so quickly. I think I will

FoS: Albert B. Rampage

especially for quickvoting the claim and then unvoting shortly afterwards using a racial stereotype as a coverup for backpedaling.


In other news:

Now, lets get this party started for mad reals. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I win when the scum are killed, not lose when the Aes Sedai are eliminated. Or, really, anything in particular about the Aes Sedai. Now, I know this is revolutionary and all, but let flavor sit back and actually look for scum, mkay.

Quoted For Truthiness.

[Isacc]

Wow MacavityLock, my bad, lol. I totally was stupid lol.

Unvote. Vote: Fuzzylightning

[Isacc]

Wow MacavityLock, my bad, lol. I totally was stupid lol.

Unvote. Vote: Fuzzylightning

Please explain how you managed to make that mistake, especially given that fuzzy and I were talking about different things.

Hmmm...let's think...this is a toughie...durrr...misreading?

Why? Are you going to try and call me scummy for this?

Seriously?

Why in hell would I try to push someone else's post on you intentionally? There are about 1000 levels of stupid in a plan like that.

Please, get over yourself and realize it for the accident it was.

[Isacc]

Fabian - have you "detected" any weaving of the Pattern so far?

Yes, someone used Saidar.

I assume that we don't start off in any particular game positions, and this applies to the whole group, yes?

Can mod confirm this?

And I agree, I don't think a whole lot can be gathered from this.

Locations are chosen before twilight, using the twilight ability in the rules post. Players "sleep" during twilight in the place they choose. After twilight everyone leaves from the place that they "sleep" and returns to the common areas.

[Isacc]

Due to the way locations work in this game I think its impossible for fabian to both be able to detect saidar as in claim as well as observed its use thus far. Therefore I think he is lieing in at least one of his claims and thus I believe none of it. Also, claiming this early seems off too. Explain? This and your weak defense earlier is enough to change my vote though.

[red] unvote, vote:xxFabianxx[/red]

I find this suspicious, namely because there are very few reasons to logically be voting Fabian right now.

Also, locations take place

at night

while right now we are all in a common area. How did this slip by you? It was written in bold, blue, modtext.

[Isacc]

Due to the way locations work in this game I think its impossible for fabian to both be able to detect saidar as in claim as well as observed its use thus far. Therefore I think he is lieing in at least one of his claims and thus I believe none of it. Also, claiming this early seems off too. Explain? This and your weak defense earlier is enough to change my vote though.

[red] unvote, vote:xxFabianxx[/red]

I find this suspicious, namely because there are very few reasons to logically be voting Fabian right now.

Also, locations take place

at night

while right now we are all in a common area. How did this slip by you? It was written in bold, blue, modtext.

So how did he detect Saidar when we are not in said locations? Thats the obvious reason for my vote.

Because WE ARE ALL IN A COMMON AREA DURING THE DAY.

Lrn2read.

[Isacc]

Kinetic: You have me listed as voting 3 times O.o

I

wish

I had that power xD

... Oops! Fixed.

[Isacc]

And FOSing twice. What are you, an entire Fist of Trollocs?

ZOMG! I've been caught! =P

[Isacc]

I have beef with Spyrex's role claim...but I has to go to school and then I has concert later...just wanted to let yall know that I'll be assessing it when I get back.

But, a tiny note; anyone notice that Kinetic didn't give the whole male channeler role post-game because he loved it so much he wanted to reuse it?

[Isacc]

FREEZE! EVERYONE STOP!

I am taking this over, and yall will listen to me, if you know what's good for you.

Stop the Spyrex wagon. This wagon on Spyrex is many things, but most importantly it is foolish, premature, and lacks foresight.

Spyrex is town right now, that much is obvious, or else he would not have been stupid enough to claim VanDamien's role from the mini.

We know a lot about his role from the last game, and as he is still townie now, it must be

used

not foolishly thrown away.

Spyrex, I make you this offer. From now on, you will tell the town any new abilities you receive, any indications that you have become more insane, and tell us exactly what you abilities you are using.

You will also work with us in order to prove your honesty and your towniness, up until the point when you become an SK, and then we can gentle you.

It would be foolish to lynch Spyrex now. Trust the players from the mini when we say that at this point we are really just making a mislynch. As long as he is cooperative, his abilities can be used in a pro-town manner, and we will be able to treat him as another power role (even better, if he plays pro-town enough, scum may have to waste a kill on him rather than us wasting a lynch).

Not to mention, generally SKs should be vigged rather than lynched anyways, as a mafia lynch is preferable to an SK. Why not let him live at least 1 night, and then see how cooperative and helpful he can be afterwards? If we have a vig, we can always vig if he becomes anti-town, or we can try to gentle. Either way, it is downright foolish to lynch him now.

Summary: Let Spyrex live. It's safe to assume that he's effectively a town power role for now, which is NOT who we should be lynching D1. We need to lynch mafia, enough said.



Note: this post contained no general commentary of the posts today, as I am limited on time tonight. I will post more anal-ysis tomorrow!

[Isacc]

Right, you just claimed the same role as the confirmed to be SK in the mini.

Anyways, I think you should be gentled immediately. Not lynched. Lynch loses us a chance for scum.

Actually, he claimed the same role as the town player in the mini, who we were told would have probably become an SK eventually. Emphasis goes on

town player

.

However, a thought I had: could scum claim male channeler, get the Aes Sedai to 'gentle' them (which would presumably have no effect), and thus tie up power roles for a night, and assume 'confirmed innocent' status for the rest of the game?

And how would this explain his second secret vote?

If we gentle him, going by the last game, that's two Aes Sedai tonight who must abandon their healing/warding/whatever and gentle Spyrex.

I don't think it's a huge issue yet, as scum won't have an obv Aes Sedai target that night (since they don't know who they are yet).

What worries me more is how do we make sure at least two Aes Sedai gentle? Though then again, perhaps they have the ability to talk outside of game like in the mini and in that case we could just leave the gentling up to them and hope for the best.


Finally, Mr Flay's 324 is a big fat load of wtf. You think he is faking a claim he proved by doublevoting? You specifically seem to discourage the idea of looking for a scumlynch instead of Spyrex lynch.

And, the whole "he must be a jester, let's lynch him," makes no sense, period. Since when has a jester lynch even been pro-town? Even if you were right about him being a jester, that's still a mislynch in that we aren't lynching scum. What you are proposing is unbelievably antitown.

Unvote. Vote: Mr Flay

[Isacc]

If you don't think SpyreX is a Jester, what do you think his role is?
What is the best case scenario for dealing with SpyreX, in your estimation? Try not to reveal your role while you're answering this one...

These are two easy questions.

1. Hmm...if I don't think he is a Jester...he might be...oh this is a HARD one...OH WAIT! MAYBE HE'S A MALE CHANNELER LIKE HE CLAIMED! *bells start ringing, people start cheering, the apocalypse arrives*

Have you even made a logical argument as to why he would be jester as opposed to the very believable claim he gave us? You seem to be pulling this directly out of your ass, which is the particular attitude that makes me think you're trying to push an easy lynch.

2. Assuming he was a jester, I would say vigging is a better idea rather than wasting a lynch. Really, there are alternatives to wasting a lynch on

non scum

Assuming he is what he claimed (which I still see no reason not to believe him) then I would say a good way to handle him would be to treat him as town right now and if we think he seems to be shifting alignment on us, to deal with him with a NK or gentling or still anything other than lynching a townie. It all goes back to the fact that we should be trying to lynch scum.

I never said he was faking a claim; doublevoting isn't an alignment-tied power in Mafia.

Is this generic mafia? Is this a mini normal? NO. Doublevoting IS tied to something in this game...namely

the male channeler that we have seen before!!

[Isacc]

Can someone correct me if I am wrong: Shadowvoting is not double voting is it? In the mini I think it allowed a vote to be placed on someone other than who you actually voted. I do not think it allowed for a 2nd vote to actually be cast, only appear to be cast.

No, the vote in the mini actually counted towards a lynch.

[Isacc]

He is not a claimed SK ABR. He has not even mentioned that he definitely will become an SK, we have mentioned the

possibility

of it occurring, but it has not occurred yet, and there are better options that have been mentioned time and again, you are trying to push foor an easy lynch right now, and that isn't getting you any town points with me.

No, we are certain that he will be an SK. All male AS become SKs.

Really? You know this for a fact? You

know

that 100% all male AS become SKs? Why do you know that?

Now,

that

argument aside, your little justification?

Nice Wikipedia clippet. Really shows a lack of actual thought, from a person who seemed to know the flavor pretty well.

What about Rand? Logain? Mazrim Taim?

You are trying to justify your case with extremely superficial arguments that look at purely the surface level. Yes, the One Power is destined to turn male channelers insane. However, haven't other male channelers survived it before? Some have survived longer by not using the power as often, some have survived longer by pure willpower. Either way, there are more than enough examples of times that men were able to sustain themselves for awhile, so I don't see why it's all doom and gloom with you.


Next, what's with the arguments I keep seeing of "what if he becomes un-Nkable, investigation immune, this immune, that immune!?!?"

I want to ask, are we really saying the most likely scenario is that Kinetic is going to make the male channeler into an ultra-super-pwnage SK who can neither be killed, investigated, gentled, or looked at funny?

Come on, this is all

screaming

a hard push at an easy mislynch.

Now, yes, a male channeler should be a figure of caution, even considered a

potential

threat. But we are not quicklynching someone who is currently town.

In the mini, the scum pushed for a quick VanDamien lynch...why? Because it HURT the town!!!

So, at this point, I think Albert is looking worse than Flay. I don't understand why Flay thinks that male channeler also = jester, but at least that confusion explains his actions. ABR however seems to understand the role the same way as most of us but is pushing hard (HARD!) for a lynch. That rubs me the wrong way.

Unvote. Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Isacc]

If you don't want any more claims today, there is an easy solution. Let's go back to lynching Fabian, who claimed at like Lynch Minus 10. Not only that, but he claimed doctor and claimed ability results that could not be confirmed by anybody. It's pretty much a classic scum claim if you look at it mechanically and ignore the flavor (which is fairly generic and easily faked for this theme).

"Back" to lynching Fabian? When were we doing that to begin with?

I don't understand your reasoning at all. Fabian's claim was utterly retarded. At L-10 it pretty much screwed him over. You're saying that's classic scum claim? A

bad

claim is classic scum? I thought scum

want

to survive?

Plus I have a simple counter-argument. Why lynch a claimed doctor

day 1

? If he is lying and is secretly an anti-town power role, I think we can afford to let him live 1 more day

at least

. However, if he is honest (which, he probably is) then lynching him today means killing off a town power role for the scum and 1 less protective role.

[Isacc]

In my extensive experience, removing a confirmed future SK is equally important to *trying* to lynch mafia. If we lynch Spyrex we KNOW it won't be a mislynch.

It will also give our power roles a chance at tracking/watching/investigating for a night WITHOUT BEING OUTED DAY 1.

Your extensive experience?

Your extensive experience should tell you that scum lynches are preferable to SK lynches. Your extensive experience should also tell you that it's better to use night actions to dispose of SKs, as a scum lynch is preferable to anything.

Your extensive experience also gives no evidence towards the fact that he WILL become an SK eventually. You really have no ethos in this situation, especially not over the many people who

were

in the mini and disagree with you.

ABR; he has no kill tonight, I GUARANTEE it. He's surely town right now, and he won't become an SK

tonight

so lynching him now does NOT save town from any negative effects, therefore you are pushing an unnecessary lynch.

Here's another problem with this unbelievably bad plan by ABR: we know exactly what he'll flip, so the lynch is going to lead us right back to where we are now, with the people from his wagon having a free pass to be excused from analysis on their lynch behind this craplogic of "OMG WE HAVE TO LYNCH HIM NOW BEFORE WE ALL DIEEEEEEE!"

[Isacc]

Because you're going to go after random players, they will be forced to claim, and they're going to be outed before they even get any investigation results in. Then you're not gonna learn from your lesson, so you're going to go after another player, and you will out a second power role. You're just playing into the scum's hands.

How is this a likely scenario at all? I don't remember anyone suggesting a plan that sounded like this.

Its unthoughtful to go out with very little information on day 1.

I have to copy KoC here and say this is exactly what you are suggesting we do.

From the books, all male channelers go mad, AKA anti-town.

Funny cause, I remember arguing against this point a page ago. Hmm...any reason you are ignoring that counter argument? Any reason you seem to be not acknowledging me at all?

[Isacc]

You bandwagon me to L-2, I claim an extremely important power role.

This is badposting.

1. You are wifoming the poop out of us, as we have no reason to believe you

are

an extremely important power role.

2. If you ARE an extremely important power role, you just outed yourself anyways. Nice job. Epic fail.



This is where I see this going:

We put you at L-2. You claim. Your claim sounds like a load of crap. We lynch you. We assess the results D2.

[Isacc]

Oh and ABR is still ignoring parts of my posts. This should be noted.

[Isacc]

Role-claim time!

I claim Aes Sedai. I'm in a pair of Aes Sedai.

Aes Sedai have several abilities in common.

We can detect Saidar.

We can all gentle a Saidin. It takes

at least

three Aes Sedai to gentle a Saidin, and they must do it at the same time.

It is not guaranteed to work.

We can also still a Saidar. It takes a minimum of two Aes Sedai to still a Saidar, and it is not guaranteed to work.

We all have specific abilities as well.

Aes Sedai are allowed to hammer townies. We are not allowed to use abilities that will lead to an innocent person's death. Voting does not count as an "ability", so we can hammer all we want. I'm not allowed to lie, but I can refuse to answer your questions all I want.

We should have you lynched just for being dumb enough to claim already.

You are a hypocrite for crying about us outing roles AND THEN OUTING YOURSELF.

Next, the only way to confirm you aren't lying about being an Aes Sedai is by outing your partner, meaning that if you are telling the truth, we have a second Aes Sedai that is endangered by your idiotic claim.

There is so much anti-town about what you just did. And your claim has very little weight to it, since none of it is confirmable and you haven't even revealed any actual abilities.

I am keeping my vote. This is just waaaay too suspicious.

I noticed that KoC and Isaac suddenly eclipsed themselves to talk in a quicktopic thread following my claim.

This is so utterly ridiculous, it doesn't even warrant a detailed response.

[Isacc]

This is your fault you dipshit.

And you are going to out other power roles in your moronic crusade, you overgrown goblin.

Lynch the SK. Stop outing power roles before they can get their investigation results back.

Wow, immature much? I didn't realize this was a pissing contest.

Did I force you to claim? No. Not in the least.

My "moronic crusade" is called scumhunting. IT'S HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED. If you don't like it, stop wasting time on petty insults and leave the site.

I am keeping my vote on you. You are anti-town, period. Even if you are your claimed role, someone of your attitude is only going to cause problems.

I'm not answering your detection questions.

Yes, Albert won't answer his detection questions because then he couldn't push for a Fabian lynch day 2. Silly Spyrex for expecting Albert to actually try and work with the town towards pro-town goals.

[Isacc]

Oh and, ABR STILL ignored the arguments I have made against his bad plan, and instead resorted to invective.

I hate children who resort to cussing and crying when they don't get their way.

[Isacc]

Fabian claimed doctor. I have no intention of voting for him.

Isaac stfu.

You should win a scummy for "Most uncooperative, anti-town player ever."

Seriously. Can we force replace him?

[Isacc]

Can we force replace Isaac? He's done nothing pro-town all game but complain like a little girl who wet her panties.

Ooooh the bad guy got an important town power role. Be sad. You loser.

Dude, I am playing the game. I questioned you, countered your arguments, and rather than playing the game YOU INSULTED ME AND IGNORED ME.

Seriously, Kinetic, this is getting out of hand.

[Isacc]

Mod: Please look into Albert's refusal to play the game and instead just resort to invective and ad-hominem.

[Isacc]

I was insulted first, wtf.

Umm...not by me.

Honestly, I don't care what this weirdo says to me. He hasn't posted anything worthwhile all game and I have no reason to believe that he will say anything of value in the near future.

See, you're just being emotional and insulting. How do you justify claiming my posts haven't been "worthwhile"? They have all been original content, and I have been playing the game the same as any person can be expected to. Your attacks on me are baseless.

You on the other hand, continue to refuse to play the game, which involves proving your point and addressing others' arguments, not ignoring and insulting me.


However.

Unvote

Having sat down for dinner, and thought, I don't want to waste a lynch on you after that claim. Your attitude can be handled by Kinetic and his modpowers, and if you continue to act this way your replacement can give me another read. So for today, I'm going to let you off the hook.

But I'm still not going after Spyrex. I'm going to lynch

scum

.

I have a suspicion as to why Shadow Knight asked the question he asked, but it wouldn't be smart to say what it was. Suffice to say, I think we should leave him be on the blatant rolefishing for now, and keep it in mind for later.

And I'm going to bring my focus back to Mastermind of Sin from back on page 15. I want to know his response to my 359.

And yes, we do have too many lurkers.

[Isacc]

How are you so sure that Spyrex is not scum?

Have you seen his claim? There's really nothing to explain here.



Woops, MoS, my bad. I meant my 362 which was a response to your 359 lol.

[Isacc]

@Sajin: You are wrong in that Aes Sedai do not lose their powers by breaking the oaths. They are simply not allowed to break them.

However, you may be right in catching an oath-break. I guess all we can do is ask ABR to explain his reasoning for changing his answer (though, now he'll know the smart answer, unfortunately xD).

[Isacc]

Okay, I'll bite: Why are you certain of this?

Well, it's simple really.

The dynamic of his role is extremely likely to be similar to the one in the mini, as it's the only role Kinetic refused to full-reveal. In that game, he only received new abilities after using his current ones (makes sense with flavor), and so far he has only used his shadow vote.

I find the likelihood great enough that the second ability he learns isn't a kill that I am comfortable guaranteeing this fact.

Plus, I feel very confident that he is not an SK yet, which is another reason he probably doesn't have a kill. This is obvious for the simple reason that if he was already SK, he would be committing suicide by claiming the way he did.

[Isacc]

If you really want me to start talking about detection, there needs to be a majority consensus for it.

I see no way that claiming whether or not you detected Saidar would be anti-town. In fact, it would either confirm Fabian's claim, or else prove one of you are lying. Either way, where is the downside?

I think an obvious tell that I am Aes Sedai is the first time I mention AS, I put it under quotation like "Aes Sedai" as if it was the first time I ever heard of it, obviously fake. This doesn't mean I can't be black ajah, but its a nice verifiable way of knowing that I truly am AS without outing my partner.

That is a terrible example of proof. Quoting the word Aes Sedai is proof of your claim? Please...

Irrelevant though, as you are probably telling the truth. But still, that is a terrible proof >.<

Well since its so transparent and Albert is going to be stupid and not answer it, I am also Aes Sedai. My partner, who I will not divulge at this time is also White Ajeh. I want to compare my partner's claimed ability with Albert's partner. I would hope that Albert was smart enough to ask right off the bat otherwise I just outed myself for nothing.

This was so obvious, it hurt. However...

CAN WE PLEASE STOP CLAIMING!? OMG. 3 potentially town power roles are now fucked, and THEY WEREN'T EVEN UNDER PRESSURE!

Why the hell are we still trying to break the game on Day 1? Doesn't anyone want to scumhunt!?!?!

Now...speaking of scumhunting...

My partner asks you why you think that all white AS have the same ability. And he wants other people to back up what you asked for him to claim. If you're the only one, he doesn't want to tell you.

Your partner wants someone to back up Shadow? Presumably, that would mean Shadow's Aes Sedai partner...is it just me or is this blatant fishing? ABR, your partner is asking for something that will almost assuredly result in Shadow's other AS partner being revealed.

[Isacc]

CAN WE PLEASE STOP CLAIMING!? OMG. 3 potentially town power roles are now fucked, and THEY WEREN'T EVEN UNDER PRESSURE!

*cough* bullshit

Useless post is useless...

The White Ajah I can talk to wants more people to back up shadow knight in his request for information about my partner's ability.

I still think this is an attempt to out another Aes Sedai...

However, I am against forcing

any

more claims. If there are Black Ajah, there's nothing to tell us that they would have different abilities than their pretend Ajah anyways. Really, even if they both claimed the same White Ajah abilities, that wouldn't prove anything.

Plus, who's to say Shadow isn't scum just going to say "Yeah, that's the ability I have, we're both town," and confirm himself?

I'm not saying that's the case, but the point is that outing this White Ajah's ability is not going to confirm anybody, and it's not helping to catch scum. So, I vote no.

[Isacc]

we should all claim which room we will be sleeping in to help detect the use and targets of Saidar powers.

Yes. Claim which room we are in, so that killing roles know where to find us. Good plan. While we are at it, why don't we also tell our docs to claim who they will be protecting, so the scum can target unprotected people instead?

Seriously, you have just asked for us to put our power roles in the riskiest positions imaginable.

Unvote. Vote: Shadow Knight

[Isacc]

I'm not too sure what to make of this. I read the business on locations and I don't see anywhere where it says scum would have to be in the same location to kill. Or, really, anything about what locations actually DO. So, equating claiming where you are = claiming who you are protecting is very odd to say the least.

I'm making a logical conclusion about locations in that the purpose is to allow abilities to only be used in the place you sleep (or maybe with a certain range, if Kinetic designed the ability that way).

Also, the second part about claiming who they were protecting was sarcasm...not sure if you picked that up.

Either way, SK's desire to out all sleeping locations has the scum alarm screaming like a fat kid who dropped his ice cream.

[Isacc]

Today is for sorting out the mess with the Power Roles.

No...today is for SCUMHUNTING.

The existence of the ability to still (not gentle) reinforces the idea in my head that there is Black Ajah in the game. Maybe even two or three.

Stilling was an ability in the mini as well...no Black Ajah there...

Anyways.

I'm sick of rolefishing.

Speculating on the setup is going to screw us again, like in the mini, at this rate...

Poke me when we actually start scumhunting again... -_-

[Isacc]

Are you even paying attention? We already caught scum in Fabian, who lied about his ability to detect Saidar and has been counterclaimed by two Aes Sedai.

This is exactly what I am talking about with role speculation.

You are professing a lynch, not on a basis of scumtells, but on the basis of a roleclaim. I dislike this.

Not to mention, he has been "counterclaimed" by two roles that are different than his, one of the people being Shadow Knight, who is trying to get every Aes Sedai to claim their sleeping positions (hugely anti-town much?). You think that's a smart counterclaim to lynch based on? Forgive me if I am of a different viewpoint.

If you honestly think the lynch isn't going to be in the subset of (ABR, SpyreX, Fabian, Shadow Knight) you sir are still a beautiful flower untouched by the cold and callous world.

However, you are right. The hunting can be done. However, why do you need a written invitation signed in triplicate to do it? Just do it.

In general, posts that JUST say "rolefishing is bad" are white noise. Make a statement. Do something. Don't just sit back and tsk,tsk and then expect to be applauded for it. Lord.

In general statements like "poke me when we actually start scumhunting" are rediculous and scummy. It is noted.

Seriously Spyrex? Did you look at who I am voting? I'm voting the person who claims the Aes Sedai should reveal where they are going to sleep. Why? Because it's scummy, and has nothing to do with role-speculation.

Don't tell me I'm

only

saying "rolefishing is bad" because that's a huge misrepresentation of the facts. I made my case. Shadow Knight is acting scummy.

You all choose to ignore it and push the "Fabian's role is lynch-worthy," case, which is based on role-speculation, hence I say, poke me when you are going to look for actual scumtells.

Plus, the poke me comment was at least half sarcastic. You're really going to turn that into a scumtell? That's a reach and a half.

And finally, all this coming from a person who scumhunted...when? Your vote is another one that's based on role speculation...so where do you get off accusing me?

Especially a Wisdom, which probably ought not to exist during the Breaking

I see no evidence for this... It's entirely possible that Wisdoms didn't exist just after the breaking, but there's no evidence to point one way or the other. Kinda a moot point.

I'm going to go back and do a reread of the pre-claim-frenzy posts.

[Isacc]

This will prob be my last post till monday, as my weekend is gonna be busy.

Spyrex you call that a giant explosion? You ain't seen nothing =P. Trust me (and others who have played with me) that I am still extremely calm...you'll know when I explode =P

What reason do you give to ignore similar flavored abilities having different results in a binary situation?

Yea, we can point our fingers to the sky and scream "schumhunting now!!" but really scumhunting is simply hunting-scum. By any means. Using 'flavor' (investigations, jailed suspects on a NK night, etc) IS scumhunting.

Except that we have no idea how Kinetic set up the game yet, so we are lynching on the possibility that Kinetic wouldn't have put similar abilities in that worked slightly different.

Also, I remember Shadow Knight claiming his detection did a little more than ABR's...doesn't that incite your suspicion as well? It sounds like two similar abilities doing different things...kinda what you say makes Fabian scum.

Unless you're going to make the argument that scum can only kill a person in their location

I know that my abilities only work on people within my location, so I think it's foolish to think that no anti-town abilities will be location based. Therefore, you can see why I think it's very anti-town to be claiming night locations.

Fabian eliminates a variable.

A variable which doesn't prove anything. If he's town, we suddenly worry if SK and ABR are lying. Then, perhaps their abilities

do

work differently and then we could end up lynching another town by one of them. Or, perhaps their abilities work diff and only 1 is scum, meaning we could mislynch 1 and suddenly think the other is probably town, or lynch the scum and move to lynch the other, who turns out to be town.

Even if Fabian is scum, that doesn't prove anything about ABR and SK and far from clears their names.

The point of this story is, since we don't know the setup, we have no idea what this flip may imply.


Also, from a more logical standpoint, have you considered motivations? What motivation would a scum-Fabian have to lie about detecting the use of Saidar, a contradiction which would probably screw him over? Why would he have made it up, when he could have avoided the idea entirely and been a safe town-doc claim?

Always consider motivations my friend. This situation doesn't add up.

IF Fabian is scum, Issac is suspect. If Fabian is a scum power role (especially Black Ajah), Issac is very suspect.

And if he's town, does that make you extremely suspect also? The argument goes two ways (and is equally a bad argument).

Fabian's results being counterclaimed by two roles

that have the same ability and would have received the same results

is really just icing on the cake that should confirm his scumminess to EVERYONE. I did not start going after Fabian based on him being counterclaimed.

How do you know the abilities are exactly the same and recieve the same kinds of results?

When an idea such as his is proposed that is fairly obviously not going to go well for the town, 90% of the time it comes from a protown player who just didn't think it through. Scum do not often suggest plans that the rest of the town are going to reject outright because of how bad it is.

Unless they think they can play it off well as pro-town and get away with it...it's something I've done as scum, successfully...

Anyways, I'm going to go back to that reread...I'll post some thoughts on the pre-claim posts on Monday.

[Isacc]

NOW Fabian is obv-scum. The male channeler claim sealed the deal.

I'd vote, but...it's obviously pointless now lol.

I just wish there had been more discussions that weren't role-related, as I can't help but feel like this lynch isn't going to really put us in a better place tomorrow for finding scum, but lynching scum D1 is worth it.

[Isacc]

Hey, Isacc, hammer please.

Oh woops, I thought someone had said they hammered already.

[Isacc]

Am I the only one who finds Isacc's defense of Fabian pretty damning at this point?

1.) I never "defended" Fabian. I had no reason to disbelieve the claim, especially when the two "counterclaims" were from people I had no reason to trust. I didn't defend him however, I simply chose not to support the lynch.

2.) Not supporting a lynch is a pretty weak scumtell, regardless of who is lynched. I could just as reasonably claim that some of the people on Fabian's wagon were scum bussing.

3.) Now, I may be arrogant here, but I'm a bit insulted by how stupid you must think I am. Let's say I was scum and Fabian was one of my buddies. Do you honestly think I would support him through an obviously false claim that he detected the one power? I'd have to mentally challenged to not bus a partner who was dumb enough to make that mistake. Moral of the story is, consider motivations. Do you honestly think I would act this way if I was scum?

If Fabian flips scum power role, Issac is going up the tree.

Thing is, after all this, if we see one Black Ajah flip I'm gunning for your lynch. Thats it. No remorse, no questions.

These two lines together show a pretty short-sighted mindset and completely ignore the fact that mafia is played by humans, ergo imperfect beings. We're all allowed to have opinions, and we're all allowed to be wrong. You're placing too much weight on one single comment here.

[Isacc]

If you're stupid enough to not realize Fabian is scum when you're town, then you're stupid enough to support him when everyone else realizes he's scum. You're not really making a good case for your intelligence, here.

That's terrible logic, insulting, wrong, and doesn't actually prove any point. Good job.

[Isacc]

At this point, I'm going to claim

one of

my abilities, because otherwise we could end up with 1-shot pro-town players wasting their abilities:

none of your abilities will work tomorrow.

I have other abilities that I have not used, and they do not involve

saidin

or

saidar

.
I know I've been arguing that there should be no more claims, but if we have 1-shots with useful powers, I don't want them to be wasted tomorrow. I assume this power is why Kinetic made Voting not-an-ability - because it'd screw us over if we couldn't lynch someone tomorrow.

Any particular reason why you chose to use this ability today and not, say, when we're in lylo and could stop a mafia kill?

[Isacc]

That's...interesting, to say the least. The Wheel of Time lover inside me is trying to figure out what cool role that would imply lol, but the mafia-player thinks it's probably best that you don't tell yet.

[Isacc]

-_-

You aren't even thinking correctly.

You directly stated that it would be stupid to support him as scum, because of "an obviously false claim that he detected the one power".

egardless of your alignment, you admit that Fabian's claim was obviously false and that it's stupid to support it, which leaves me asking the question of why you supported it at all?

It would be "obviously false"

because I was scum

. As town, it's NOT obvious. Therefore, if I was scum it would be stupid to support his claim, because AS SCUM I would know it was false.

However, AS TOWN, the claim is NOT obviously false, since I DON'T KNOW HIS ROLE. Therefore it was not "obviously false."

Lrn2read.

[Isacc]

Isacc riding on the coat tails of the "ABR is being an asshole" thing from earlier to try fend off an attack deserves an

FOS Isacc

at the least.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Clarify please.

[Isacc]

Isacc riding on the coat tails of the "ABR is being an asshole" thing from earlier to try fend off an attack deserves an

FOS Isacc

at the least.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Clarify please.

You are trying to shrug off MoS's comment as an ad hom when it clearly is not.

Umm...when did I do that?

[Isacc]

That's terrible logic, insulting, wrong, and doesn't actually prove any point. Good job.

Isacc, am I reading this wrong?

Apparently so.

If you notice, three out of the four statements there focus on how Mastermind's accusation didn't make sense...they were far more important than the "insulting" part.

I was not trying to deflect by calling it ad-hom...I didn't even use the words ad-hom or invective.

Anyways, my 735 should be more than clear enough to show

why

Mastermind's accusation didn't make sense.

[Isacc]

I'm glad you addressed the issue Mastermind (I was worried you weren't going to), however you are dead wrong.

The only time it's not prudent to do so is when your partner's falsification of their claim is clear to the town, which means that protown players should be able to see the claim is false.

You're missing the fact that as scum, I would have known the channeling claim was unfounded and thereby foolish to make.

The point is this. There is only one logical scenario in which I would believe a claim that Fabian had detected channeling. I would have to both not know whether or not the Power had been channeled (ergo, not be an Aes Sedai or communicate with them), and also not know what Fabian's role was.

If I was his scumpartner (as you are claiming) I would know he was lying (reason 1 to not support a claim, as I would thereby know it would be able to be counterclaimed). As soon as the Aes Sedai counter-claimed I would know for sure that he was wrong, and that therefore he was liable to die (as, he WAS lying and outright liars tend to die eventually) and then the only logical scum reaction would have been to distance.

As you can see, your argument is extremely superficial. It is an extremely basic argument of "OMG connection, they must both be the exact same alignment!" It lacks an actual analysis of actions and shows a lack of complex thought. It'd be no different than if I called you out for bussing because you were so quick to disbelieve the claim.

It's simple, enough said. Maybe it'd work in a newbie game, but we are big kids here and we're more complicated than that.

[Isacc]

Are we in a consensus that we want a claim?

What are you talking about...?

[Isacc]

If he is lying and is secretly an anti-town

power role

, I think we can afford to let him live 1 more day

at least

.

Slip. I also think he was way over-defensive at too many times during day 1. Totally up for an Isacc wagon.

Vote: Isacc

That wasn't a slip, that was a concession of worst case scenario. Epic fail.

The only logical reaction as town was to vote Fabian after two Aes Sedal counter-claimed, so that doesn't really help your case.

ULTRA craplogic.

There was no logical reason to defend him as town, yet you did. For you to believe Fabian's claim, there had to be a logical reason to completely disbelieve TWO fully supported roleclaims that backed each other through detail reveals, and there was no reason to do that whatsoever. Just because ABR and SK's playstyles rub you the wrong way and they did stupid stuff is not a reasonable argument for thinking they were lying when everything each of them said about their roles was backed up by the other one.

Except that their roles could have worked different. We didn't have much information to go on at the time.

Your arguments for thinking ABR and SK were scum were completely superficial, because it showed that you had no real knowledge of the players or their playstyle whatsoever. That only holds up in a newbie game, kid.

Nice Strawman. You absolutely dodged the entire issue here.

FOS: Spyrex

Also one ought to get thrown on MoS: for attacking me for not attacking Fabian, when for two pages people have been pointing out that Albert didn't attack him and yet they completely ignore him. A bit o' tunnel vision here.

EBWOP: FoS: Isacc

Not ready to vote him yet, but I'm strongly considering it.

Translates to "Even though I've been attacking him strongly for 5 pages, I want to make sure he's a popular lynch before I vote him."

Town sticks to their guns. Why the sudden FOS only?


Oh and, I slept in the Blacksmith last night. I think we should find the other two Stables people.

[Isacc]

Doublepost.

Sajin, Isaac, and Spyrex all jumped on Shadow Knight after (s)he contradicting Fabian's detection of Saidar.

No, I jumped on him for asking Aes Sedai to all claim their sleeping locations before the night started.

[Isacc]

Alright, I really don't feel like arguing about much today, so Mastermind, my responses to you can wait til tomorrow.

Just a few observations here.

To whoever pointed it out, my FoS of Spyrex was half-minded. I had wanted to emphasize the criticism I made, but hadn't really thought far enough to keep it an criticism (for him) rather than a full on FoS.

I agree that it would be helpful if ABR admitted if he helped to gentle Spyrex (though, if not he should just leave it at "no" and not claim whatever he did do). It may not be three, and it may not be 100% likely to work, but it's extremely likely that if he admits it, it worked (because, how else would Spyrex feel safe enough to claim he was gentled, knowing he might be counterclaimed).

I really find the whole "The One Power clearly killed the KoC" kinda odd. That seems like a pretty sure statement based on "Incinerated."

One death last night was done by the one power…

This one in particular. How does he know? Slip much?


On another note.

I also think he [Isacc] was way over-defensive at too many times during day 1.

Really? Really? Did you even read the mini that we were both in? You think defensiveness is a scumtell for me? I'd suggest you look back into the meta of me that you already have.

[Isacc]

Alright, I was gone Saturday, and asleep most of today, and I definitely don't have time to fully point by point argue against my own lynch, so I guess that'll wait til tomorrow. Until then, a few important things to mention.

A couple of the "inconsistencies" you point out, Yos, are due to the context and/or target of the comments, not a shift in standpoint. A quick example is the accused shift from thinking Fabian's claim was solid to thinking it was bad; when I said his claim was solid, I was referring to the actual roleclaim itself as a role that made sense. Then later when I said it was a bad claim, the reference was to the action claiming at L-10 out of nowhere, thereby attracting the suspicion of half the players.


Another thing to consider; there are a few solid followers in this pack right now. Armlx is an obvious one, as well as MBL (post 857 much?). Plus, MoS 921 and 923 scream "Finally a popular target I can vote," and "I better also connect myself in case Kairyuu becomes a better target."

[Isacc]

I'm not interested in your defense Isacc. I want to know who you suspect and who you think is town, and reasons if possible.

Fair enough, I can do this pretty quick before I call it a night for mafia.

Scum: I am very suspicious of Armlx and MBL, because of their tendency to just follow along with the crowd. Posts 856 and 7, they both follow Yossarian's FOS's on flay. Then they quiet down until Yossarian's case against me, in which they switch over to suspecting me.

Also, I feel strongly about my reads on MoS's two posts, as outlined in my last post. He seems to be attaching himself to all the popular targets.

Town: Spyrex is probably town, mostly because with still two missing stables-sleepers, whatever two who lied about their sleeping location seem less likely to be town.

I feel like Yossarian is leaning town, actually, however I am not particularly objective in that scenario so my read is weak at best.

[Isacc]

More importantly, is how you feel about Kairyuu.

I disagree with his argument about Black Ajah. However, I think it holds enough water for it to be sincere.

In terms of his play, it all seems to check out with my strong meta of his town play. His push on Slicey is a bit harder than I would expect, but in the face of the rest of his play, I think that's more an outlier in the set of town play than an actual scumtell. Note that this read is based on my meta and strong familiarity with Kairyuu's play.

[Isacc]

In relation to Spryex being town. I think it might be safe to assume so. For now at least. If we see more one power used in NK's we may have to reconsider this position.

I still find it suspicious that you are absolutely sure being burned = One Power.

[Isacc]

@Isacc: Can you confirm my motivation of you for D1?

You caught me just before heading off to bed.

Yes, I had a second action last night. Was wondering where that came from.



One quick thing.

In every WoT-mafia themed game I've played 'burned to a firey crisp' or similar descriptions have always been from One Power use. To have another fire death and ignore this makes you look suspicious.

Wait wait wait. It's suspicious to ignore the fact that the WoT-mafia games

you

have played featured this trend? Funny because, I don't see how I would have known this trend.

In the only WoT-mafia game I've been in, there was no such trend, so your argument against me is crap. I am not "ignoring" anything.

[Isacc]

Isacc what's with the two missing stable sleepers? I don't get it.

Kinetic told us three people slept there. Only Spyrex claimed. Therefore, two people haven't claimed stables...

Isacc, did you kill anyone last night?

No.

[Isacc]

Kinetic told us three people slept there.

This isn't the case, it was a "Notice". Could have been left by anyone.

Hmm, I guess. I hadn't even considered that. Well great, now I get to deal with the wifom of, "Is someone lying, or is the notice lying?" Wonderful.

Even so, Spyrex is probably town due to gentling, so the whole stables sleeping location is a moot point anyways.

[Isacc]

Isacc. I need you to answer the following question immediately:

What abilities did you use yesterday?

You have to trust me that this will benefit the town.

Seeing as you are probably town, I'll bite.

I used an ability called "Forge" which let's me work on a specific invention (hence, I had to sleep in the blacksmith). It works in the form of "Forge Counters" which I can place one of per night (in order to simulate the hours it takes to create a weapon as a blacksmith) on any of four tools. Since I got two, I placed one on two different items, and therefore did not complete any single item yet.

[Isacc]

I KNOW THAT YOU'RE LYING BECAUSE I ROLEBLOCKED YOU YESTERDAY.

I really hope this is directed at me.

Because this will confirm my theory.

[Isacc]

I KNOW THAT YOU'RE LYING BECAUSE I ROLEBLOCKED YOU YESTERDAY.

Forget about this, I made a mistake.

Here's the lowdown:

Yesterday I sent a pm to the mod saying I wanted to role-block Kairyuu. I forgot about this, but a little bit later, I changed my mind and pm'd the mod to role-block Isacc. For my first role-block, I got confirmation for my choice. For my second pm, I did not get any confirmation. I know that I role-blocked one of these two scumbags. They both claimed that they used an ability.

Now I KNOW that they are scum.

No, you definitely do not.

Because, I know why you didn't receive confirmation.

Your roleblock went to me, ABR, however, I am immune to your One-Power effects.

That's part two of my role. As a blacksmith, my years of working for the Queen paid off at one point or another. According to my role-pm, the Queen gave me a reward for my services during my last trip to the capitol.

The reward was a Foxhead Medallion. All my role-pm tells me is that it has been known to grow cool to the touch around Aes Sedai. Of course, the logical guess I made was that it's the same foxhead medallion Mat Cauthon recieves in the 5th book. As a result, the One-Power cannot touch me.

[Isacc]

All too convenient.

Call it what you want, but it can be easily confirmed. I am immune to the One Power. Anything that targets me directly gets negated.

[Isacc]

I hope nobody believes this crap. Let's get a move on the scum and kill these two ASAP.

Your ignorance amuses me

[Isacc]

Issac can you please answer my question in post 974

I don't understand what you are asking. Can you rephrase?

[Isacc]

It's pretty simple. I am asking you why you don't believe that Kairyuu is scum, if he isn't your scum partner why isn't your vote on him?

See my post #937. I know Kairyuu in real life, so I know how he plays and what his attitude is. His play so far checks out as town to me.

Plus, now that his claim is obviously true, I'd say that just about confirms him. Unless someone wants to argue that there's a scum motivator...

[Isacc]

You say that but really what other play did he have other than slicey it checks out scum not town.

His attacks on people D1, his defenses against arguments, and his claim are all good examples...

---

Alright,

now

I'm going to bed. No more questions till the morning. This game is giving me a headache. Talk about the mute leading the blind, leading the deaf. This game could be used as a case study on witch hunts.

I'm immune to the One Power, and I was motivated last night. I'm not lying, and I'm going to laugh really hard once you all finally come to the realization.

And, before we waste a lynch, are there any One Power day-abilities? Because, you could just target me with one and see that I am immune to the One Power.

[Isacc]

Alright, to answer a few of the questions to me.

I am not told what my blacksmith items do until I receive them (upon completing them). The items that I can make are: Steel Battle Axe, Fine Steel Sword, Iron Shield, and Steel Arrowheads. I currently have one forge counter on both the Iron Shield and Steel Arrowheads, however the Shield requires 3 and the Arrowhead requires 2, so neither are completed.

I'm confused about your claim, Isacc, because you say you have abilities that work on people, but now you've told us that your ability works on a chunk of metal, not on people.

My weapons are all described as abilities I will receive, so once I finish completing them, I assume some (if not all) will be abilities usable on other people.

You and I supposedly slept in the same location--the Blacksmith.

Yeah, this I think I may have been wrong about. I was told that all my abilities are only usable within the Blacksmith's sleeping area. At the time, I thought that included the weapons, however I think that limitation may just apply to the abilities I

currently

have.

Also flavourally a Queen handing something like that out to a blacksmith makes very little sense Plus where'd she get it?

You don't think the Queen would give a gift to one of her most loyal and skilled blacksmiths? And you also don't think the Queen would have a variety of ter'angreal and ancient relics in her collection? Remember, this is shortly after the breaking.

[Isacc]

How often do you get forge counters again? One a day was it? Why did you split it... Are you saying we need to wait three days to see your shield creation... you really assumed or expected to live that long? Maybe i'm off, a little more enlightenment please.

Yes one a day, and I had sent my ability in on the arrowheads first. Then, when motivated, I decided to ready the shield a bit. That way, depending on how D2 went, I could either get the arrowheads or get close to making the shield.

And, I did assume to live up to three days, mainly because of my One Power immunity. I assume that's why he gave me the immunity, since my abilities took so long to activate.

[Isacc]

I didn't put both tokens towards the Steel Arrowheads because, like I said, I wanted to have more options at the end of D2.

The shield requires 3 tokens, the arrowheads require 2.

And fine, I've claimed just about everything else, so I'll give the full roleclaim. Though, I don't know what "contradictions" you are referring to.

I am Comeal Lud, and I am a Blacksmith.

I have 1 active ability, called Forge, which lets me place a forge counter on one of the four items I am allowed to create. When the number of counters hits the requirement, I receive the item. I am also told that each item has a special one shot usage ability, that I cannot make the same item twice, and that I can only use my Blacksmith abilities within the Blacksmith's location.

My four items are considered reactive abilities, in that they become available on the condition that the forge counters reach the necessary number.

Steel Battle Axe, 4 counters. Fine Steel Sword, 3 counters. Shield, 3 counters. Steel Arrowheads, 2 counters.

And then the Foxhead Medallion is passive. It does not actually tell me the ability it gives me, just the flavor about receiving the gift from the Queen and how it grows cool to the touch, however the One Power immunity was pretty obvious.

And, as if this needed saying, I win the game when all threats to town are gone.

[Isacc]

I really hate when being honest leads to getting lynched.

He acts like someone who thinks he won't die anytime soon, AKA what scum would think.

AKA someone who is immune to the One Power, so feels like he can take some risks. I guess I didn't factor in the witchhunt yall are going on today though.

Third, blacksmith with immunity to One Power + 4 different potential abilities with his inventions? What? I don't think so.

I'd say it's more likely to be considered Blacksmith with two extra abilities, if I'm lucky. There's no way I'd be able to complete all four, considering the game would have to last till D12 with me in it.

Two, he claims he has immunity to One Power only after I tell him I role-blocked him, which makes me think he's making this up on the fly.

So you think not getting a response on your roleblock was just an unexplained phenomenon? Would you care to explain what

you

think happened? I'd really like to see you try.


I feel sorry for Kairyuu here. Confirmed townie getting lynched = really sad scenario. But, whatever, continue this blind witchhunt. There's no point in me defending myself any longer, as I've been completely honest and yet you guys refuse to listen.


In the meantime. Faraday seems protown to me. I forgot him on my list, but his attitude definitely seems pretty helpful.

I am curious as to why JVW chose to comment on the "Masonic Majority" and nothing else. It seems he took time to read the posts before him (as that's a particularly specific quote to comment on) but made not a single commentary on the claiming and the wagons. Odd, to say the least.

[Isacc]

And then the Foxhead Medallion is passive. It does not actually tell me the ability it gives me, just the flavor about receiving the gift from the Queen and how it grows cool to the touch, however the One Power immunity was pretty obvious.

Is your immunity unconditional? The foxhead medallion in the books didn't prevent indirect use of the One Power, such as having items thrown at the wearer, so one would think that "incineration", if done correctly, would still be an effective attack despite your possession of the medallion - but you seem to be implying that your immunity is foolproof.

This is something I asked about awhile back.

Only abilities that directly target me with the One Power are negated. However, general One Power abilities that don't directly target me will not be negated.

[Isacc]

Isacc, how is Kairyuu confirmed town because he used a double-action power on you? Couldn't scum easily be given that ability?

Most likely not. Motivator is an almost exclusively town role, mainly because if it was given to scum, it would essentially just be scum having an extra power role every night.

Your obsession with sleeping locations yesterday (5 posts on the topic) leads me to believe you have information you're not sharing with us about why sleeping locations are important. You seemed positive, based on your own role, that nightkills and locations are somehow tied together. And yet you now claim that you misread your role and it currently has nothing to do with people and locations. I'm not buying it.

It was an assumption I made based on the fact that I thought all my abilities were exclusive to my location. I don't see what else you'd like me to say here.

And as Blacksmith, please answer my question about whether Kairyuu and/or others were at the Blacksmith last night. I want to know if Kairyuu is one of those missing Stables people

I don't know whether or not others slept in the Blacksmith area.

[Isacc]

@Issac if you or Kaiyruu aren't lynched today who are your top suspects and why?

I am fairly certain that at least 1 of these three are scum: Armlx, MBL, MoS.

Based on a hunch, I think that either Yossarian or Flay is scum.

[Isacc]

Mod, I agree, can we get a votecount?

[Isacc]

EBWOP: Pretty please =D

[Isacc]

This is utter bullshit. I'm thoroughly insulted that I am trying to be called a liar (outside of the game) and a cheater. If you want to lynch me, play the game, but don't resort to some attempts to profess that I am some kind of alt/cheater. I have a reputation as a sometimes violent player, but I will not pander to these petty accusations of foul play. It's crap, and I don't even understand why it's being suggested.

Do a IP check, do whatever the hell check you want. We are not the same person. We don't even play the same way. If you wonder why we use similar terminology HE TAUGHT ME TO PLAY THE GAME. This isn't rocketscience fellas.


Anyways, this has all gone on long enough, and there's nothing I can do to stop my own lynch. Given that reality, I will play to my win condition, and attempt to prolong my life as much as possible.

I have only lied ONCE all game. That lie was about my role as a whole. I am not a Blacksmith, I am a Gholam.

I

am

immune to the One Power.
I

did

believe Fabian's claim.
I

have

been attempting to play 100% pro-town (that's always my strat early game, regardless of alignment).
I

am

extremely frustrated that I have been pretty much honest about everything one would be expected to be honest about, and yet still got stuck xD lol.

I am a Serial Killer. I was motivated, and I submitted the kills on KoC and Shadow Knight. Kairyuu is probably protown (as I said, scum have never been motivators before).

I give you two options

:

1.) Finish lynching me now, and end this tirade of false accusations and libel.
2.) Let me live, and I will submit my kills against anti-town players, with your choosing if you would prefer.

The benefit of the first is that I am gone, and I don't have to deal with this, and there is one less SK in the game. However, I doubt my death will help in catching the real mafia.

The benefit of the second is that I become a threat to the scum, meaning that they may eventually find it wise to night kill me, freeing a townie from the danger of a NK once in the game. I can act as a town-vig, as I have no other moves left to make, and eventually I can even self-vig myself (if the mod allows that...I'm really not sure).

Choose whichever. I am not a fan of my character being degraded, so I would be happy with either choice.

And, I am not lying when I say that at least one of MBL, Armlx, and MoS is probably scum. They were following Yossarian like moths to light.

[Isacc]

EBWOP: "I'm thoroughly insulted that I am being called a liar (outside of the game) and a cheater."

Trying is a typo. It should not be in the sentence.

[Isacc]

Just to be clear:

I never, ever, ever thought you two were cheating. That's ridiculous. The connections are from in-game play, nothing else.

However, I called Issac out on the "Shh I'm busy scumhunting!" business before today and Kai has opted to do the same thing.

IF Issac comes up SK, Kairyuu is by no means super town. Its definitely plausible, but its not a guaranteed bit.

However, IF Issac does in fact come up scum then Kai is going up the rope.

Actually, like i said. This is why this game has frustrated me to no end.

I really was trying to scumhunt. I really thought everyone was foolish for speculating on roles alone. I would have said the same things were I town.

And, I still say MBL, Armlx, and/or MoS should die =P

[Isacc]

Well Spyrex, I believed Fabian's claim, and I'm probably going to hang for it xD. I can't really say that anything has ever made me more upset than to be completely honest about believing him and still be wagoned for being scum with him lol.

[Isacc]

I really was trying to scumhunt. I would have said the same things were I town.

That's what they all say

Yes, yes it is. But when the game is over, and I was right about the Armlx, MoS, MBL trio...I will be the one saying, I told you so.

[Isacc]

Flay would be my first hunch since he was the only one to bring up the word Gholam in the thread (I've never heard of the things).

This is a strong feeling I had actually. Especially when he tried to say that Gholam might be KoC's role based on the whole "I chose my alignment" thing. I don't know why he would try to spin Gholams (they are shadowspawn, mind you) as potentially pro-town unless he was one. Also, note that despite the fact that he seems quite familiar with Gholams, he had not brought up the fact that my power immunity was potentially a Gholam tell, which seems evidence to me that he might have been trying to avoid discrediting the claim of One Power immunity if at all possible.

[Isacc]

Oh and btw, before I die.

That would have been an epic fake-claim, had it been used at a better time. Perfect way to explain a kill if I got tracked/watched. So unfortunate.

I was even complimented on the awesomeness of the role by lord Kinetic himself =P

[Isacc]

Isacc, aren't you offended at the outrageous accusation that you've been cheating with your best RL friend Kairyuu? You seem to have totally ignored the accusation in the process of implicating yourself as scum.

Are you retarded? I did respond to the accusation in the same post.

ps. Why did you give up all the sudden, Isacc? Is it because it's better to be caught as lying scum than to be caught cheating and banned?

I will not stand for this. This is bad sportsmanship. I am tired of being accused of being a liar. Go be a jackass elsewhere. We have integrity here, take your libelous claims and shove them up your ass.

Now if Issac truly was giving up he'd self hammer at this point but we shall see what happens. I really don't know if waiting for replacement matters seeing actions are supposedly not happening.

Actually, self voting would be anti-town. Ending the day too quickly is something scum usually go for. As I said, I'm being pro-town, believe it or not.

[Isacc]

@Issac, you killed innocents, claimed AS and claimed town power roles…how are you town benefiting?

KoC I wasn't sure about. KoC was a suspicion.

I also benefit from killing Power users. So, I killed Shadow Knight because if any of the AS were black ajah, he seemed most likely. However, since Fabian's flip, I think scum may be just as nice a treat for me.


I hope that once I flip SK, then yall will trust me a little more? I would hate for all the accusations I made to go to waste purely on the grounds that I am "scum." Yes, it makes sense that if I am mafia, then I shan't be trusted at all, but as an SK I have as much to benefit from killing mafia as the town does, so I think you should realize that I am not lying about who I find suspicious and why.

On a side note; I find all of Isacc's "there's another SK just like me" speculation unlikely. If Isaac is a SK, and if we're assuming SpyreX could have gone insane and become a SK...how many SK's would you expect in one game?

So eager to defend Flay? Why not let him play pro-town, and then his mentions of Gholam may be viewed as coincidence? You seem pretty eager to point out that Flay is probably not another SK. Could you two perhaps be scum together?

I also wonder, to what do you account my unique kill flavor appearing a third time? I wouldn't say coincidence, as my role-pm also specifically tells me that

my

kill flavor is dismemberment. So, why would there be a third?

Isacc, are you saying that you killed both KoC and SK by dismemberment?

Yep.

Are you limited to killing people in your location at night, Isacc? Were you lying when you said you didn't know whether Kairyuu or anyone else was at the Blacksmith?

Actually, all that "only in my location" thing was an honest mistake on my part. You see, I have a tracking ability that lets me learn the sleeping location of a person I use it on, and then move closer to them. I assumed my kill only went through on people in my location, because of that. I was wrong, however.

And, I don't know who was at the Blacksmith at night. I know

one

fact about my sleeping location, but telling it could be anti-town, and would cause mostly just WIFOM anyways (as we don't know the sleeping locations of dead people), so I'll keep that to myself.

[Isacc]

By the way, when I flip SK, it will be illogical to consider Kairyuu scum.

Mainly because, why would a mafia motivate someone who

wasn't

mafia with them, in favor of someone that could have been pro-town? It would be absolutely ridiculous/insane/retarded.

This is why, by simple logic, Kai is obvtown. If he was mafia, he would have motivated mafia, not a potential townie.

Also, I maintain that motivator is not a scum-role.

[Isacc]

uhh...i think you misquoted me, seeing as i never said those statements...

Woops yes. MBL. Sorry.

[Isacc]

STOP THE TRAIN

I'm a retard. A big one. I was just rereading my pms, checking my roles, etc.

I just remembered. I didn't kill Shadow Knight, I killed Hascow.

Yeah, I know this won't be believed. But, I wanted to make sure one kill would go through (I die if I don't kill once every two days), so with two kills I made sure one was someone that prob wouldn't get protected, and thus basically picked at random.

I'm sure this will get me put to death, even more than already, but I feel if I am honestly going to be pro-town, I should at least be giving the right information. Thinking I killed SK could protect whoever actually submitted that particular kill.

Anyways, I'm sure I won't be believed, but no one believes me about anything anyways until I flip, so I don't really care.


Back to helping...

uhh...i think you misquoted me, seeing as i never said those statements...

Yes, sorry. MBL was proper tag.

Why would you want to move closer to them if location doesn't matter? Did you use the tracking ability last night and thus move closer to someone you targeted with it? How do you know you were wrong about your locations theory? Did you kill someone not in your location?

I don't know why, not yet at least.

I used the tracking on Fabian, because he was a Power user, but then couldn't move closer to him because he was lynched.

And, I think I'm wrong about my locations theory because I find it unlikely that I happened to guess two kills that were in blacksmith. Plus, I also think it'd be unfair to make me get one kill every two days if my location factored into whether or not I even succeeded.

Huh? I only see two possibilities for information you might have:

1) You know someone lied about their sleeping location.
2) You know where a dead person slept last night before being killed.

Which one is it that you have? And why do you see it as pro-town to hide that information?

Neither of those possibilities are accurate. I receive a bit of general information about the people in my sleeping location, but nothing specific enough to pin down to a specific person. If I revealed my information, it would, at worst, out a power role, or at best do nothing and cause confusion.

Also, Isacc, your newbieness may explain a lot here. Was the WoT mini your first exposure ever to the game of Mafia?

No. I had played two games outside of mafiascum.net by then, and I've completed 3 games since them, and I'm still "in" 3 others too (if you count being dead as in...if not, I've completed 5 and I'm in 1 other =P).

I am really not a noob at this point...

[Isacc]

they're not an especally common type of creature in the books; according to this wheel of time Wiki, there's only one known Gholam in the Third Age, probably pulled out of a stasis box. The idea of two just seems silly.

Need I remind you that this takes place shortly after the breaking,

before

Gholams became uncommon? Probably during the time one would be placed in a stasis box? I mean, we already know one Forsaken is alive, and the Gholams are a creation of a Forsaken...so I think it's definitely early enough in the storyline to suggest a larger number of shadowspawn.

Also, I wouldn't discount the possibility of a Gholam mafia. I'm actually surprised that I am even an SK, as I don't see why a shadowspawn would work for itself.

[Isacc]

Why? If you're SK, then why do you care if the mafia or the town wins?

I lose either way. But, I'd prefer the town to win. Why? Because, I feel like it.

[Isacc]

Are you saying that your tracking ability actually moves you during the night? How do you know you were even at the Blacksmith then, or can you be at two locations at once?

Note the phrase "lets me." I get told where my track target goes, then I choose to move closer if I feel like it. I did not move closer, so I am still in the blacksmith.

Well, you've got a pretty strong reason to WANT to get us to believe that, certanly, since if you are a SK and you're playing to your win condition then all you really care about right now is "not getting lynched today".

True. However, being entirely anti-town is a dangerously risky strategy for any SK, so I think I have a pretty strong reason to actually help out as well.

[Isacc]

Isacc, are dismemberment kills a use of the one power?

Not for me they sure aren't.

[Isacc]

Casting a "one of three" net across people attacking him really helps support the case of Isacc being scum.

Nice. I like how your case against a confirmed SK is to make me seem scummy. Really shows that you're protown there.

He's OMGUSing me, pretty much.

Really, what cause would I have to OMGUS you at this point?

Not. You killed two power roles last night, and you keep trying to convince people I am scum after I nailed 2 scum. Neither of those actions are protown.

How do you know Hascow was a power-role? Inkeeper could have been vanilla for all we know. And KoC wasn't gauranteed town...soooo.

Also, you "nailing 2 scum" isn't a free pass to

anything,

and the fact that you are trying to play it off as a reason to find you pro-town is a big red flag.

FoS MoS

for that one.

Plus, I would hold your petty boasting about catching me. No one "caught" me, because you were ALL wrong. Your accusations were 1) I lied to defend Fabian, 2) I was not immune to the One Power....hmmm both of those were false...

Proper term: You got lucky. Want a medal?

The answer is simple. Scum motivate non-scum, especially night 1, so they can confirm themselves later with a roleclaim.

MOTIVATOR IS NOT A SCUM ROLE.

Wait, that's not emphasized enough.

MOTIVATOR IS NOT A SCUM ROLE

Get the picture? Really, I can't make it any more clear. This is a fairly obvious one. Why wouldn't a scum motivate scum for...idk...a second kill? You think they'd do it to attempt to confirm

one

scum? That's preposterous, and you know it.

When Kai hangs, people better take a goooood look at the people pushing him. Unlike with Fabian, I think I'm right about this one (as logic leaves no other probable solution...)

[Isacc]

I think the larger issue was your contradicting statements regarding your interaction with the moderator over the workings of the foxhead medallion, not the passive ability to fend off the One Power in itself.

Then obviously you didn't read the arguments, because that didn't happen till a couple posts before I claimed. I was already heavily wagoned by that time. And, at least 3 people claimed my "one power immunity" was just a failed gambit and made up in order to protect against the roleblock accusation. You sir, need to read more carefully.

Settle down there, Rasputin: IT HAS BEEN DONE.

That's a particularly different role. Yes it is called a "motivator" but it is a very different role. The role we are discussing here is one that specifically grants the target the ability to choose two actions.

I don't think it's logical that this type of motivator would be a scum role.
I don't think it's logical that this type of motivator, if scum, would have targeted me.

The logic does not hold. Why is everyone clinging to it? Illogical behavior is so frustrating...

[Isacc]

Doublepost.

Kison, did you read the modnotes for the game that you linked? Your example even proves my logic.

Who did the motivator motivate every single day he was alive? SCUM.

Point made.

[Isacc]

zwet, that you buddy?

I'm pretty sure that's DGB not Zwet.

[Isacc]

Um, I do. I just caught you and Isacc trying to look town by confirming each other. I was right about Isacc, wasn't I? I'm right about you too.

Actually, you weren't right about me. You have claimed that I was scumbuddy with Fabian, and then scumbuddy with Kairyuu. I am neither...so what makes you sure you're right about this one, again?

[Isacc]

...Just wait till the lynch fails...then we'll see who is laughing...

Lol...jk...or am I? =P