Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Kairyuu]

Pre-game flavor discussion, I see. Boring. Speculating on the setup before the game even starts is a foolish move, because it gives scum ideas. 'nuff said.

[Kairyuu]

This game seems to have started without me noticing. Guess there's a first time for everything.

Setup speculation early D1 in a closed setup = terrible idea. It helps no one but the scum.

Also,

vote: Shadowknight

, since the apparent strong hesitation to go along with ML's plan has some interesting implications.

[Kairyuu]

I'm a page or two behind at the moment, so I can't comment on the recent developments, but this is just a post to say that I'll be V/LA until Thursday night, possibly Friday. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Kairyuu]

This game is moving

fast

!

After a quick skim of the last couple pages to avoid falling

too

far behind, I noticed Isacc's plan. I like it. Mostly because after the Mini that's what I told him would have been a better idea for use with VanDamien, whose role this sounds exactly like (as scum, I obviously preferred an easy mislynch to a good idea in the Mini). So yeah, I agree with myself, and Isacc, and MoS.

unvote

I doubt my vote is valid anymore, since it's been 10+ pages since I made it.

[Kairyuu]

Alright. This has been bothering me for a bit, so I had to come mention it.

The speculation about Black Ajah is stupid, and contradicts the mod's own words.

There may or may not be Aes Sedai in this game.

If they are, they will be bound to these oaths.

Note the bold.

All

Aes Sedai must follow the Three Oaths according to the mod's own words. This means that Black Ajah Aes Sedai either do not exist, or are bound by the oaths. Given that Kinetic is a good mod, and knows how to balance a setup, he would not put roles into a game that must claim scum if asked.

The logical conclusion is that there are none of the Black Ajah in the game. All Aes Sedai should be assumed town in my opinion.

That's all I came here for. Tomorrow is my last day fo school, so soon I will be able to read the thread and get caught up.

[Kairyuu]

@Spyrex: Read what I quoted. Unless the mod is lying to us then

all

Aes Sedai will be

forced

to follow the oaths. I stand by my point.

[Kairyuu]

Back and reading. Hoping like crazy that this game has less Walls-o-text than the last one I had to reread.

Expect a post maybe today, but much more likely tomorrow.

Terribly, terribly sorry for being V/LA for so long. School is essentially over now (all that's left is 6 AP exams over the next 2 weeks), so I should be around a good deal more often from now on. I dislike lurking as a general rule, so I will make every effort to correct that distasteful behavior.

[Kairyuu]

This game is more of a doozy than I was expecting. The time I allotted for it was not enough. I reeeeeeaaaalllyy hope I can get caught up fully tomorrow.

[Kairyuu]

Alright, I’m just gonna post the notes I took as I read, instead of trying to condense them into some sort of logical pattern.

First, we get a shitload of speculation and stupid plans. Nothing useful to the town. Bunches of scum-candy though.

Then we get Fabian, with his “drunkposting” which he follows us with a claim that I totally don’t buy. Why would a Wisdom have a guaranteed doc protect, when Aes Sedai, much more powerful healers, have only a 50% chance of protecting in the Mini?

Then we get to Spyrex’s claim to try to confirm Fabian. Given what we know of the role from the Mini, I think that Spyrex is town, and should

not

be lynched, as the reasoning that many are using to get him lynched was the exact same scum-driven reasoning that got us the mislynch in the Mini.

FoS: Flay, Tenchi, Fabian, Moratorium, KoC

Now after all of that, we move to the wagon on Mr. Flay. As of this point I don’t see much of a problem with it. The Jester-lynch thing I actually have a reference for. Mini Theme: Carnival Mafia (dunno the number), Empking pushed for a DDD lynch on the basis that he was probably a Jester (he was). We lynched Empking the next Day, and he was scum.

And now we’re off to the issue with Albert. I don’t like that he claimed, obviously, since he wasn’t even under that much pressure, but I believe the claim. Also, I’ve already mentioned my position on the Black Ajah thing, so I’m treating Albert as confirmed town unless something happens later to make me think he isn’t actually Aes Sedai.

@Spyrex:

That doesn't change anything. The mod isn't lying if he says "all Aes Sedai are forced to follow the oaths" when the Black Ajah isn't even really Aes Sedai as much as Power-Wielding Darkfriends who have infiltrated the organization.

Black Ajah Aes Sedai are still Aes Sedai

by definition

. Therefore, they would have to follow the oaths if they were in the game. I stand by my point.

Now there’s a pissing match between Albert and Isacc. Null in my eyes.

More debate about Albert’s claim. I do not like the short little chime-ins by Mydrunner and Tenchi, but that’s just gut at the moment.

Now we get to an interesting post by Shadowknight, saying that he has not detected the Power being used.

vote: Fabian

The following wagon on SK makes some sense, but not voting Fabian, the obvious liar, is stupid.

Now Albert confirms that Fabian is lying through his teeth. Seems SK and Albert are town, and Fabian is scum, as I thought.

FINALLY, a Fabian wagon. And with that, I’m caught up.

[Kairyuu]

Black Ajah Aes Sedai are still Aes Sedai

by definition

. Therefore, they would have to follow the oaths if they were in the game. I stand by my point.

No they don't have to follow the 3 oaths. Obviously if you asked a member of the Black Ajah if they were Black Ajah they would lie to you and say they weren't...geeze this isn't a hard concept.

Read my first comments on the subject. The mod says in the rules post that if there are Aes Sedai in this game, they WILL be bound by the three Oaths. Therefore, as Black Ajah

Aes Sedai

are, BY DEFINITION, Aes Sedai, they would be bound by the three oaths if in the game. Following from that, they must not be in the game because having scum who would have to claim scum if asked would be poor balance.

You're implication that I am stupid while at the same token proving that you have no knowlege of the discussion you are commenting on does not reflect well on you. If you're going to comment on something, try to make sure you understand it first.

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage:

Your interpretation is way too strict, and your ignorance is going to cause confusion of those who are not very familiar with WoT.

Pfft. Now you're actually outright calling me ignorant. Do not imply, or directly state, that I am stupid/ignorent/anything else insulting. I do not take kindly to insults.

I understand the Wheel of Time and I know that Black Ajah are believed to be Aes Sedai and therefore are believed to be bound by the three oaths, but in actuality they aren’t. (Interpret it as the AS title is a front and that they aren’t AS but simply servants to the dark)

I know the source material. Don't preach to me.

I don’t believe Kinetic made some sort of linguistic deduction to ignore the possibility of Black Ajah.

The mod clearly mentioned something. I find it extremely odd that people can actually look at a statement made by the mod and say that it is wrong. Switch on the logic center of your brains people.

To suggest that they don’t exist will be detrimental to the town success.

Unless I'm right, in which case suggesting it will prevent the stupid lynching of town power roles.

Furthermore you pushing this issue has me greatly question your allegiance. Are you a Black Ajah Aes Sedai?

My allegiance is to the town. I am not Aes Sedai of any form.

LOOK at the Mini. The first part has the same rules ‘Aes Sedai bounded by the three oaths’….Than under the roles of the Aes Sedai there remains the possibility that the other AS was a df/member of the Black Ajah, and Black Ajah ARE NOT BOUND by the three oaths.

How about YOU take a look at the PLAYERS from the Mini. I WAS THERE! I know what happened.

[Kairyuu]

Ooooh. Fabian is 100% confirmed scum now. Can we get to lynching yet?

[Kairyuu]

No, I'm pretty sure he's channeling alright. Channeling DGB, to be exact. At least he's having fun.

[Kairyuu]

I have determined that Fabian is telling the truth, because I am General George S. Patton, tank commander extraordinaire. I have in my arsenal 500 Sherman tanks, which I can unleash at any time, killing anyone I tell them to, with no limit as to the number of kills. And since all of them occur simultaneously, I can kill everyone but me and the town will win. How does that sound?

PFFFTTT!

Awww. Seraphim got one in first.

[Kairyuu]

SWEET! Fabian just confirmed my point with his WIFOM!

THANKS SCUM!

@Benmage: Fabian pretty much just confirmed that he was scum, and given that he DID NOT KNOW when the Power was channeled, he has no Aes Sedai partners to tell him when it was channeled. One Truth Prevails!

[Kairyuu]

Exactly, Seraphim. Exactly.

[Kairyuu]

So. Mufasa for Fabian's buddy anyone? The wording of that hammer post is really irking me.

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage: Because I was scum, and therefore knew the WHOLE TIME that there were no Black Ajah in the game. Also, nice job ignoring the rest of my post, as well as my comment on the last page.

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage:

I don’t understand how this is a point….soo sorry I missed it…

Read it. Fabian, who is a claimed scum, had to guess as to whether the Power was channeled or not. He got it WRONG. Therefore, he had no source of information on the subject. In other words, he did not know because he did not have a Black Ajah Aes Sedai partner to stop him from being stupid.

Than stop sucking…

I told you not to insult me. AD HOM HAS NO PLACE HERE!

@Mod: Please replace, or at the very least warn, Benmage. There is no reason that, after seeing what happened to Albert when he used ad hom, he should be able to get away with it.

I am going to ignore you until you either die or get replaced. I do not tolerate people who must resort to ad hom. I gave you no reason to be rude, and even told you to back off. You didn't listen. Therefore, you are what people call an asshat. Stop trying to ruin other people's enjoyment and back the fuck off already.

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage:

Your the one taking it so personal...since when is an opinion of a player sucking at this game offensive??

It is ad hominem argumentation, and therefore rude.

Sorry not everyone starts out good..its pretty much a learned thing.

That actually made me laugh. Compare our join dates my friend. I joined almost 5 months before you.

What do you think omgus stands for?

What it stands for is not an accurate definition of what it means. OMGUS refers to a knee-jerk reaction elicited by a vote, and the title of the act is signifigant in that it can be assumed that the reasoning for the OMGUS vote would be, simply, "Oh my god, you suck."

This is not an accurate comparison.

In my opinion your style was bad...however i did miss a very nice point, as follow:

See what happens when you discount the points I make because you think I'm stupid?

@SpyreX

As for the Black Ajah crusade: assuming a threat is much easier to deal with than not assuming one and being blindsided by it. You want to assume that EVERY Aes Sedai that comes out is town, fine.

Thing is, after all this, if we see one Black Ajah flip I'm gunning for your lynch. Thats it. No remorse, no questions.

Do what you think is best. I'm not overly concerned, especially since I still say that Fabian proved my point.

@all: I do

not

like the looks of Slicey right now. As soon as he is challenged, he backpedals immensely. Either he or Mufasa will likely be my top suspect for D2.

[Kairyuu]

Yes, and we should be entering D2, oh, about 3 and a half hours ago.

[Kairyuu]

vote: Slicey

Reasons somewhere in the last page or two.

[Kairyuu]

Blacksmith for me.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Four pages in one night is somewhat annoying, but oh well.

I think that the Isacc-wagon has some merit, but the case against him is circumstantial at best. I do not intend to pursue it.

@Benmage: I thought you said that if Fabian flipped scum (which he did), you were going to agree with my point on Black Ajah Aes Sedai. What changed your mind? Also, claim your location already. More than half the town have already claimed locations. You cannot attempt to argue that there is no majority opinion promoting location claims. The fact that you are fighting claiming makes me think that you slept at the Stables. Furthermore, the fact that you are trying to hide said sleeping position make me think that you are scum, and therefore have reason to resist the claim.

Fos: Benmage

@all: We need more pressure on Slicey-scum. Preferably just the right amount of pressure to see him swing.

[Kairyuu]

Flay-votes are for what exactly? I'm not seeing any reason that Flay is more important than Slicey. In fact, Slicey needs more votes. You guys should be voting Slicey, as, you know, he's scum and needs to die.

[Kairyuu]

Wow.. Slicey huh...

So you've got Flay on one side talking about Jesters and "It's no lie to say"'s that seem pretty much like lies and whatnot... generating a good bit of attention.

...vs. Slicey, who.. what, is barely here and says he's read to page 10 so far?

That's... such a strange comparison. And seems like you are trying to present a distraction.

FoS: Kairyuu

Want to see Flay's responses to Yos before joining any wagons at this point.

Weeeak. I see nothing overly concerning about Mr. Flay, and I have been after Slicey since I declared intent during Twilight. Hence, my attack is consistant, and I was merely commenting on the recent development as not as important as lynching Slicey, who has acted a good deal scummier than Mr. Flay.

[Kairyuu]

@SpyreX:

I'm also disconcerted by Kairuu's obsession with Slicey.

Wheeee! I have found a suspect. I am now trying to get him lynched. This is what I do. Unless he can prove to me that I shouldn't be voting him, I will continue to push for his lynch.

@Moratorium:

This is everything I found, the entirety of your "attack" on Slicey, one mention of backpedaling and a bunch of appeals to join you, which is akin to you standing off to the side of the gallows, jumping up and down, waving your arms frantically and shouting "HEY GUYS LOOK OVER HEEEERE"...

Is there something wrong with that? See my response to SpyreX.

But hey, at least your "attack is consistant", nothing to see here right... you keep taking shots at the V/LA's, good sir.

I have attacked 3 people. Shadow Knight for some vague thing on like page 4, which I dropped in my next post, Fabian, who flipped scum, and now Slicey. One person at a time, and only ONE of those was someone claiming V/LA. Take a look at what I'm attacking him for also. As soon as he encounters any sort of resistance to his suspicion, he plays it off as being a minor thing he just wanted to point out, and backs off completely. This is scummy as hell.

[Kairyuu]

@Mr. Flay:

Until this last post, though, you haven't really made much of a case on him. I don't like Slicey's behavior any more than you do, but just saying "row row row lynch!" isn't pushing for a lynch in any more than the most rudimentary way.

He has contributed almost nothing. Until he posts more content for me to analyze, this is all I can do.

I'm not sure it's really scummy of you because it may just be your style (a poor man's Xylithxm/IS), but it's not terribly helpful.

My playstyle tends to fluctuate. I get like this when I either have few other leads I see as valid, or I haven't really gotten immersed in a game yet to the point where I'm confident in my reads. This is a combination of both. I'm hoping to be able to latch onto a few solid reads soon, as currently I'm only confident that Albert and SpyreX are town, and that Slicey is scum.

[Kairyuu]

You've claimed Aes Sedai. I believe the claim. I was the one who proposed the theory that there are no Black Ajah Aes Sedai, so the fact that I believe you to be Aes Sedai automatically means I believe you to be town.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert:

Alright. This has been bothering me for a bit, so I had to come mention it.

The speculation about Black Ajah is stupid, and contradicts the mod's own words.

There may or may not be Aes Sedai in this game.

If they are, they will be bound to these oaths.

Note the bold.

All

Aes Sedai must follow the Three Oaths according to the mod's own words. This means that Black Ajah Aes Sedai either do not exist, or are bound by the oaths. Given that Kinetic is a good mod, and knows how to balance a setup, he would not put roles into a game that must claim scum if asked.

The logical conclusion is that there are none of the Black Ajah in the game. All Aes Sedai should be assumed town in my opinion.

That's all I came here for. Tomorrow is my last day fo school, so soon I will be able to read the thread and get caught up.

Town Wisdom was a solid claim though.

Having to take 50/50 chance guess on whether or not someone had used Saidar was the problem.

Kill all Aes Sedai, they suck.

Thank you and GOODNIGHT!

@Benmage:

I don’t understand how this is a point….soo sorry I missed it…

Read it. Fabian, who is a claimed scum, had to guess as to whether the Power was channeled or not. He got it WRONG. Therefore, he had no source of information on the subject. In other words, he did not know because he did not have a Black Ajah Aes Sedai partner to stop him from being stupid.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts, and the proof offered by Fabian is in bold.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Black Ajah were first mentioned in the second book. May have been the third. I don't remember exactly.

Preview Edit:

@Faraday: What do you have to say to the fact that Fabian, who is now confirmed scum, did not know whether or not the Power was channeled, and had to guess at it?

Preview Edit number 2:

@Albert: Then why did you ask for my reasoning?

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: Except that the mention of the Aes Sedai is part of the General Knowlege section, not one of the rules. Why would Kinetic give us faulty information in his explanation of the theme?

Also, the Fabian bit is the closest thing to hard evidence in my theory, so I see that as quite an important factor.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: Oh yeah, I'm really scared of a Fos without any backing.

@Albert: Can you please explain to be how it is poor reasoning when we have proof that one of the scum did not know something that all Aes Sedai know? The proof being that he got it wrong.

[Kairyuu]

Anything a confirmed scum says is to be discarded immediately.

The fact that he was

wrong

is pretty damn convincing evidence that it shouldn't be discarded.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: That theory is based on just as much speculation as mine is. You cannot argue that yours is any better.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert:

The difference is that I'm playing safe, and you are willing to consider any AS as confirmed town. This is a huge problem.

Playing it safe is boring for me. You know this very well.

I don't see it as a problem. If you guys don't want to agree with me, then fine, don't. That won't change my opinion, and if I'm right at the end of the game, I get to rub it in all of your faces.

@Faraday: Fair enough. There are, of course, other explanations to everything. I still think I'm right though.

[Kairyuu]

@Sajin: Read the thread. Albert is a claimed Aes Sedai, who also claims to have a partner. Also, in the Mini the two Aes Sedai were Neighbors.

@MBL:

Again, your phrasing rings of scum to me.

Heh. Heheheheheheheheh! Brilliant! Someone who wants to argue semantics! It's been SOOO long since I've found someone willing to do that. This should be FUN!

Earlier, you sat your vote on a lurker, to remain until he proves unworthy of it,

Explain to me, in detail, why keeping my vote on until my top suspect proves that I shouldn't be voting him (aka. until he defends himself sufficiently) is scummy.

and you won't bother looking into other players because it's "boring".

I never said that. I said I find it boring to play it safe, and that was specifically addressed to Albert in reference to a Newbie game we ICed together in which I dug up an old gambit used only once before and applied it to the game, which helped me nail the scum D1 and D2 respectively. Your twisting of my words is noted.

And now you tell me you're not scared of my FOS. If you were town, why would you be scared regardless? Your word choice shows me your mindset--you're scanning this thread looking for posts that threaten your safety, not looking for people's reasoning to help you ascertain their alignment.

This is totally coming out of left field. Because I said your expression of suspicion, which wasn't backed at all by reasoning, did not worry me, I must be scum? That is complete and total bullshit, and you know it. If I were scum doing what you say I am doing, then why would I bring up that it doesn't worry me. Why wouldn't I just focus on the things that actually DID "threaten my safety."

Also, how the hell am I supposed to look at your reasoning to ascertain your alignment, if your post contained NOTHING BUT AN FoS? What reasoning do you expect me to analyze, the reason why you picked bolded font over bold italics? This feels a bit like you are just looking for an excuse to suspect me.

Also, if Slicey flips scum, I am definitely going after you for chainsaw defense.

Perhaps you're just not a very good player.

Whooo. Let's bring in more ad hom then. Do NOT make personal attacks. I already addressed this with Benmage. I do not want to have to deal with it again with you. Back the fuck off with this right now.

@Benmage:

Ahh yeah missed this. Well than Yeah I go back to definitely believing the possible existence of black ajah. I never really found Kairyuu’s logic sound to begin with.

Bullshit. After I pointed out the issue with Fabian, you told me that if he flipped scum, you would be much more inclined to agree with me. This is called a LIE.

Also, interesting to note that now that other people are disagreeing with me, you are quick to flip-flop on the issue. This is scummy.

FoS: Benmage

Its not faulty information Black Ajah are technically AS, but they exist beyond the bounds (oaths) that the normal AS have. Back to the fact that Kinetic gave this same information, but in the mini made it open-ended (in the AS role descriptions of their partners) makes your logic flawed.

This comment fails to adress the issue I presented at all. You are merely spewing the flavor and the fact that the PMs in the mini made them Neighbors instead of Masons. My point is that Albert's bringing up rule number 2 does not apply here, because of the fact that the section I am drawing my conclusions from is not frim the RULES but from the KNOWLEDGE section. Therefore, Rule 2 does not apply to it.

He wasn’t AS he was Forsaken.

I did not say he was Aes Sedai. I said he was scum, and if he has Aes Sedai partners, he would have had access to the information that the Aes Sedai possess.

My only point is it seems illogical to throw out the possibility of black AS.

This is exactly the opposite of what you were saying during Twilight of D1 when I brought up the point about Fabian. Explain you switch.

[Kairyuu]

One of Tarhalindur's Standard Tells. It's when one scum gets attacked, and one of his buddies attacks the attacker in an attempt to shift the focus of the town off of the first scum. It's a pretty damn effective tactic if it isn't noticed, but at the same time it's quite a good indicator of scum if someone catches it.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL:

Kairyuu. Tsk, tsk. For a control freak, you sure aren't taking much control of this game. Probably because you're scum.

I'm trying, but it's not working. It's kinda difficult to take control of a game when there aren't enough followers to sway.

You haven't gotten immersed in the game yet. aka you're bored and not trying to find scum. I don't think I'm twisting your words at all.

Except that you are twisting my words. By saying I haven't gotten immersed in the game yet, I mean that I don't find myself getting many strong reads yet, which is exactly what I said. Your "interpretation" is a complete misrepresentation of what I said.

1. Speculate about the existence of Black Ajah

Is this scummy? If yes, how so? If no, why are you stating the obvious?

2. Berate and suspect other people for not agreeing with you about Black Ajah

I have berated no one for not agreeing with me. The people that I berated, I did so because they were ignoring my points (Benmage). Everone else I have tried to convince.

Also, I did not suspect anyone for not agreeing with me. You have no way of backing up either of these accusations because I have not done what you accuse me of.

3. Complain about ad-hom while ad-homming left and right

Really? Prove it. I have tried to be as polite as possible. I want to see quotes of where I have used ad hom. You need to back up your points, because these baseless accusations are completely false.

4. Vote all D2 for a player who's posted two sentences of relevant content in two weeks

Two problems with this:

1. Day 2 has been going on for what, all of 3 or 4 days? The "all of D2" part of that has no merit.

2. So what if he has posted barely anything relevant? The stuff he did post was scummy, and I'm voting him until he either gets lynched, or clears up my suspicions (or someone else does something scummier than he has).

How about instead of trying to control everyone by bullying and swearing, you step up and actually give us opinions on some more players, with detailed reasoning.

I will give you more detailed reads of other players once I have them, which is what I have been saying. If you don't like that, then try to get me lynched.

Also, if my swearing bothers you, I will stop. I do not do it to offend, only to emphasize my points.

There's no safer vote than on a lurker that's only posted two sentences of relevant content in two weeks. Sure, Slicey could be scum, but there's very little evidence of that right now.

And how much "evidence" do you have on me? These few little snippets of baseless accusations? None of the things you are accusing me of I actually did, and the one thing I did do that you mentioned you can't prove is scummy because it isn't.

You actually call him "scummy as hell", and say you're "confident he's scum" which is bizarre considering how little he's posted.

This is WHAT I DO. Seriously. Meta me, and you will see the exact same attitude/word choice in practically all of my games.

So your lack of proportionality on the topic of Slicey plus your refusal to touch other players in the meantime is an indication to me that you don't really want to find scum all that badly.

Or maybe Slicey is my top suspect and that is why I am focusing on him.

Or perhaps that you're scum busing your weak partner. (I just read your play as scum in another game. You're quick to bus weak partners, aren't you?)

Which game are you talking about? I've only been scum twice, and in the first one I avoided bussing at all costs, and in the second I only bussed Empking because there was literally no way to avoid his lynch. If you are referring to blackcatcontract, that is called distancing, not bussing.

Do you think SpyreX's play has been pro-town, or are you basing your confident read on him entirely on your knowledge of the channeler role from the WoT mini?

I think that he has been acting strongly pro-town and actively scumhunting. The role claim lends confidence to my read, but it is a much more minor thing.

@JVW:

You know, Kai is bugging me in this game. He wants to argue semantics, which I think is completely useless, and he was pushing for a Slicey lynch based on almost nothing.

Arguing semantics is a fun pastime for me. When I was new, word-choice based scumtells were my favorite kind. The opportunity to brush off the old arguments was too good to pass up. Generally speaking I avoid that kind of argumentation nowadays though.

Also, how am I pushing for a Slicey lynch based on almost nothing? I have a strong scumtell on him, and he has yet to respond to it, even though he has given the indication that he knows what has been going on recently because he knew that we were claiming locations.

@MoS:

lol, y'all have fancy names for this stuff these days. Back in my day, we called it "misdirection", but y'all have prolly never heard of that...

Can't say that I have.

Also, I totally forgot you were in this game when I was addressing MBL. I was planning to tell you this at some point. I dug up your old doc gambit from the Pie E7 that you and Adel were ICing and applied it to the F11 setup in Newbie 750. It worked brilliantly. Caught scum D1 and D2 in an all vanilla setup.

@Kison:

Why have you only focused on Slicey, and not Mufasa, who you seemed to be fairly suspicious of, since these two posts that I am quoting right here?

I was suspicious of Mufasa for a gut suspicion I got from his hammer of Fabian. It was more minor than my suspicion of Slicey, so I decided not to pursue it. I may come back to it later, but more likely than not I won't unless he does something that I feel is a stronger scumtell.

Have his more recent posts assuaged your suspicion of him? If so, then please explain how.

Not really. I'm just less confident on my read of him than I am on my read of Slicey.

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage: You have not made a case against me. The beginning of your post plays both sides of the issue you are trying to address, and then you voted me because you don't like my attitude, and are trying to play it off that because I am agressive (not a scumtell) rude (not true, and not a scumtell even if you want to argue that it is) and demanding (not a scumtell) I must be scum. You also say that my semantic plan is unhelpful (not a scumtell). I am also apparently unbending (not a scumtell).

This is textbook OMGUS, and now that you think you have some decent support on your side you think you can get away with attacking me.

[Kairyuu]

Oooh. Shiny Kairyuu wagon you got there guys. Can I join in?

Meh. The logic against me is crap, and I'd really rather not have to claim to get rid of the votes, since I may be able to hand you a scum on a silver platter D2 depending on how the Night goes, but since it seems many of you are incapable of listening to reason, and I'm pretty sure I'm at some high number of votes, I may as well continue the trend of early claims.

I am Nipon Machaid, and I'm a butler. Weird title for my role, but whatever. I am a motivator. Each Day I target someone and that person may use two actions instead of one. Day 1 I targetted Isacc, as he looked rather pro-town until Twilight. The multiple kills with the same flavor made me think that he might be responsible, but the fact that there were 3 instead of the 2 that I would expect gives me pause. I was planning (and am going to be sending the PM as soon as I finish this post) to motivate Albert for Day 2, as I maintain he is confimed town as long as his Aes Sedai claim is true, which I believe.

@Isacc: Can you confirm my motivation of you for D1?

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: I motivated Isacc right as I went V/LA Albert, so that if the Day ended before I got back I wouldn't lose it, and I didn't see any reason to switch it until after it was already too late to do so. Isacc seemed solidly pro-town right up until shortly before Fabian's flip.

You will get motivated today though Albert, since I am far less certain of Isacc's towniness now than I was when I made the decision.

@Yos: As I said, the fact that there were 3 kills with the same flavor instead of 2 gives me pause as to whether or not my motivation caused that. I intended to keep out of any issues regarding Isacc until after I was more sure (by motivating someone else) and seeing if one of the kills went away. If I had been able to make it to D3 without claiming and that had happened, I would have been all over him. I wanted to wait to see how it played out first in case I would be outing myself for nothing.

[Kairyuu]

Wait. Damnit. I forgot. KoC did his whole global roleblock thing for today, didn't he?

I wonder if that'll work since he died before the beginning of the Day though.

Meh. If my motivation goes through, it will be on you Albert. I have already submitted the action.

[Kairyuu]

Meh. I don't care what you think of me Albert. If you can't look logically at the situation then I won't attempt to force you to. I have told the truth 100%, and my role is easily confirmable.

Here's what I propose:

We lynch someone who is not me. Albert get's motivated. Since he has claimed Aes Sedai, he CANNOT lie as to whether or not it occured. This confirms that I am not lying.

Sound good?

Of course, the other option is that you lynch me and I flip town motivator. That would get me away from this craplogic too, so either way I'm happy.

[Kairyuu]

@Mufasa: Seems I was right in the first place about you, you opportunistic scum. Care to tell us who you're buddies are?

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: Who? Me or Isacc?

Also, you claimed Aes Sedai, and you don't think that the scum would put you rather high on their list of people to block? Think logically for a second here please.

Also, if you blocked me, then why did you do it? What reasoning did you have to roleblock me.

[Kairyuu]

OR YOU WERE ROLEBLOCKED! PLEASE DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY AS A CLAIMED POWER ROLE!

Also, provide reasoning on both of us, because now I just think you're bullshitting us.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Just got home from school, so I just caught up on the new stuff.

I refuse to defend myself or my choice of targets. I wanted to motivate Isacc because I was of the opinion that he was town. You do not have to agree with someone to think they are town. I think that the arguments against both myself and Isacc are foolish to the extreme, but whatever. This town is incapable of seeing reason, so I'm not even going to try reasoning with you. I have motivated Albert, and that is that. If you kill me, then the fact that this is a Deep South setup means that as long as KoC's ability doesn't resolve it will go through barring roleblocks or whatever.

@Albert: I don't honestly care about your opinion any more. You are being completely insensible right now, and it's annoying me. You are wrong. It is as simple as that. That is the last thing I will say on the matter.

@all: Faraday = town and Benmage, Slicey, Mufasa = scum. That is all.

I will no longer respond to any of these crap accusations against me. If you have a direct question for me, I will address it, but otherwise no. If the line of conversation continues to be solely focused around myself and Isacc, I will simply ignore it and continue to actually scumhunt.

[Kairyuu]

Wait what? You guys are trying to get us modkilled as alts/cheaters? What the hell? How does that make any sense whatsoever? Isacc and I are friends from RL (as is common knowledge since I've posted it several times around the site). I recruited him because he was obsessed with WoT and was interested in Mafia, so the WoT mini was a good place to start. He liked it, so he stayed. We do not cheat in any way, and we are DEFINITELY not the same person.

I don't like these accusations at all.

[Kairyuu]

I don't care about Isacc. I was referring to myself, and myself alone. Isacc is a toss-up to me, and I wanted to see role confirmation before I pursued him. At the moment, I do not really care what role/alignment he is. I'm much more concerned with the fact that people are accusing me of cheating simply because of whatever reason people are using.

I have too much respect for this site and the people here to cheat like that. I have done almost nothing but hang around here since I joined last summer, and I would never risk all of that just to get a slight advantage in a game.

[Kairyuu]

Well that means my hunch was right about the NKs, but it also means that there is likely a seond Gholam-SK that we need to look out for.

Flay would be my first hunch since he was the only one to bring up the word Gholam in the thread (I've never heard of the things).

unvote

Vote: Isacc

@Seraphim: Thank you. At least one person believes me.

@SpyreX: Apparently there's two people. Good show.

[Kairyuu]

I voted for a claimed SK Albert. Is that a problem? I am not one who is overly concerned with waiting around for people. I have even advocated quicklynches several times in the past, I believe exclusively as town (though I'm not 100% sure on that).

Waiting is boring. Lynching admitted scum is fun.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: I disagreed with him, but disagreement =/= suspicion. I motivated him because I thought he was town.

Also, Seraphim is not one of the people I recruited. The list of those people is (in order I think):

Nightwolf
Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn
Isacc
blackcatcontract
magnus_orion
madeofphail
BloodybAndana
fallen angel

Most of them have flaked out by now, but Isacc, magnus, phail, and fallen angel are still around.

I have said my piece on this issue, so I won't rant at you, but I don't want you implicating other people just because they disagree with your irrationality.

You all are boring by the way.

unvote

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: Go to hell. I'm not dealing with you any more. You're a total asshole, and these accusations are really fucking bothering me. I am not cheating, and I cannot believe that people would think so little of me that they would not believe me when I say it.

@Mod: Please replace me. I will be happy to answer any questions you have about the accusations everyone has leveled against myself and Isacc via PM. I apologize sincerely for requesting replacement, and offer to replace into any game(s) you need some for, playing or modding, regardless of length.

[Kairyuu]

I have motivated Albert, MBL. I will not be changing that. Why the hell would I motivate a claimed SK?

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. If you are actually serious MBL, then I will retract my replacement request. If there is one thing I cannot deal with it is when people attack my play ethics. Anything else I can deal with just fine, but that actually gets to me.

[Kairyuu]

@Mod: I would like to rescind that request for replacement. I'll still answer any questions you have though, obviously. I am not a cheater, and would rather not be thought of as one.

[Kairyuu]

I doubt that. I'm not scum, and you will receive a motivation as long as actions are working this phase. That will hopefully be enough to prove that I'm not lying.

[Kairyuu]

That was for Albert.

@Benmage: You sir, are an idiot. Get over yourself.

[Kairyuu]

@Yos:

I don't know. Why did you motivate Isaac last night, after he spent the entire day trying to prevent us from lynching one of the Forsaken?

I'm gonna have to consign this to the fact that I was V/LA for about 25 pages (thereby giving me a less than adequate read of the progression of the game). Combining that with the fact that my read showed him playing to his town meta (what little of it I know) made me think he was perfectly fine as a motivate target. Of course, the "I felt like it" reasoning comes into it too. I needed less convincing that he was pro-town to want to motivate him, simply because of the fact that I am a bit overly inclined to trust people who I know. So yeah, it is partially my fault for motivating him when he was a sub-optimal target, but I'm not going to apologize for it, because I have every right to target my choice of people.

@MBL: I don't know. It doesn't say so anywhere in my role.

@Benmage: Woohoo. I targetted him because I thought he was town. Big deal. Also, targetting him because I thought he was town is not atrocious play. Not even close. Sure, this is definitely not my best game, but I would not call my play

atrocious

.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: I will not say that I am a bad player. I am not. Not even close. I just made a dumb move for my power on a single action phase in a single game I have been in. Woohoo.

@Mr. Flay: It takes time to write up a post. I unvoted after writing the post that came with it, which required a bit of research. I didn't preview before I hit submit, so I wasn't the first or second like I was expecting to be. Check the timestamps if you don't believe me.

@Albert: Why are you still pushing this tunneled crusade against me?

@all: I believe that Albert is lying scum at the moment, and I have proof:

Now I KNOW that they are scum.

Since Albert has merely claimed a roleblock (which I believe failed for whatever reason, be it Isacc's One Power immunity or a cross-block from somewhere) he does not have role confirmation of anything involving alignment, and therefore cannot claim with 100% certainty like that that EITHER of us is scum, let alone both of us.

You have been caught in a lie Albert. After we lynch Isacc you are next.

@all(important): Given this new evidence I have found on Albert, I am going to swap my motivation. The new target is Faraday, my only other strong town read.

[Kairyuu]

Except that you do not KNOW it 100% certain, and you are well aware of that. Especially since Isacc has been validating my claim repeatedly. I think that you're just trying to ride the wave from the Isacc-lynch to try to speedlynch me before you lose momentum.

[Kairyuu]

I am announcing it because I have already claimed my role, so if the scum are going to block me then they are going to block me. Declaring my target gives the town the information so that if something happens like last Night with the multiple kills the town will know who to look at even if I die.

[Kairyuu]

I was not trying to confirm him in any way. I claimed because I was in danger of being lynched. He confirmed that I was TELLING THE TRUTH, and you are insisting that I'm scum because of it, even after he has claimed SK. This is a lie, and if you were actual AS you would have been modkilled. Therefore, logic says you are scum.

Simple as that.

[Kairyuu]

I am not trying to get him modkilled. I think he is lying scum, and I'm pointing out his lies so that the town can see them too. It is not terrible play in the least.

[Kairyuu]

@Faraday: Hmm. SK did seem to buy Albert's claim at first, so it's a possibility that he's not scum.

@Albert: I'll retract my suspicion for now. I still consider you a good bit less than confirmed at the moment, but I'm willing to reevaluate this.

[Kairyuu]

@Faraday: Except that Albert never claimed his partner's abilities. SK actually got suspicious of him for that.

@Kison: Hmm. Must have forgotten about that. Thought it was a modkill. Meh.

Why the FoS though? How does that make me look like scum?

[Kairyuu]

I'm really not scum ya know, Albert.

Meh, whatever. Does this mean I'm allowed to vote again now? Hell with it, I'm doing it anyway.

vote: Isacc

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. Sajin is probably right about KoC's ability.

I got randomized to the Stables for the Night in case anyone actually cares/it actually matters.

People I would be willing to lynch right now:
Slicey
Mufasa
Benmage

People I need to look more closely at for reasons mentioned D2:
Albert
Mr. Flay

vote: Mufasa

@Mr. Flay: I was referring to the unvoting of Isacc. I was under the impression when I started the post that I would be the first or second to unvote, but while I was typing up the post like 4 other people unvoted.

[Kairyuu]

Probably. That's why I said "if anyone cares/it actually matters."

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: My role PM includes no flavor whatsoever. It merely states that my name, my profession, and that I have the active ability called Assist, which lets the person I target use 2 actions.

[Kairyuu]

You and I both know why I'm voting you Mufasa.

@Goof: Explain.

[Kairyuu]

@Goatrevolt:

Kairyuu: Why do you keep announcing in thread who you plan on motivating? It gives off the distinct impression that you are more concerned with confirming yourself and your role than you are with using your role to the benefit of the town. Can you explain your "motivation" here?

It's just what I do. Once I have claimed my role I am as open as I possibly can be about it short of actually allowing the town to choose my target for me. I consider this to be pro-town, so my "motivation" is to allow the town as much info as I can give them, since claiming a power role puts a nice "kill me" sign on me for the scum.


@JVW:

This quote strikes me as odd, though. It might be that they're scumbuddies together.

You wanna give some possible reasoning for a scum motivator motivating someone who could have been a townie? I'm treating myself as practically confirmed town here based on my role, which was confirmed by the dead SK, who would have literally no reason to lie about it.

Also, my scum meta does

not

have me rabidly attacking my scumbuddies. I play a very conservative scum game, and avoid the bus if at all possible. You have evidence of this from the Mini.

[Kairyuu]

@Moratorium: Because I'm voting Mufasa right now. I would be happy with either lynch, but have arbitrarily chosen to place my vote on Mufasa for now.

[Kairyuu]

SpyreX beat me to it.

I can kinda dig flay.
Personally would still love Mufasa.

This^^

Or Slicey. Or Benmage.

[Kairyuu]

@MoS:

The difference being that Flay is actually likely scum, as opposed to random bandwagons on bad players.

Ummm. Right. Sure. Let's go with that.

Oh wait, that's right. Those three are actually scummy too.

[Kairyuu]

I'll vote Mr. Flay closer to the lynch if necessary. I'd prefer Mufasa or Slicey or Benmage, but I'm not too overly against Flay.

[Kairyuu]

I'll use MBL's list plus some more in case Mr. Flay wants to use me as his test as well. I'm somewhat iffy about the claim, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while if he's right.

I chose to sleep at the blacksmith night 1.

I chose to sleep at the stables night 2.
I chose to sleep at the blacksmith night 2.
I chose to sleep at the river night 2.
I chose to sleep at the windmill night 2.
I chose to sleep at the barn night 2.
I chose to sleep at the silo night 2.

My role PM says I win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
I've killed someone in this game.
A teammate of mine has killed someone in this game.
I have the ability to kill in this game.

I am a Butler.
I have a motivate power.
I used my power on Isacc D1.
I selected Albert D2 as my motivate target in case the global roleblock failed.
I selected Faraday D2 as my motivate target in case the global roleblock failed.
I selected Yosarian2 D2 as my motivate target in case the global roleblock failed.

I have motivated armlx for D3.
I have motivated Kison for D3.
I have motivated Albert for D3.
I have motivated MBL for D3.
I have motivated Mr. Flay of D3.
I have motivated Faraday for D3.
I have motivated MoS for D3.
I have motivated OozingGoogBall for D3.
I have motivated Yosarian2 for D3.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. I'm not going to vote at the moment, because of the whole waiting for Twilight actions thing. This means I will probably not be on the wagon at all, since I'm going to be moderate to heavy LA for about a week while I finish up half of an online AP Physics course I've been neglecting.

I'll try to keep up, and I'll post when possible, but don't expect much.

[Kairyuu]

Zero access until Sunday night.

[Kairyuu]

River.

vote: Benmage

-disappears again-

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Well, yeah, I slept at the river.

[Kairyuu]

unvote

vote: Mufasa

Two people slept at the River. One of them was scum. I was one of those people. I am confirmed town. Therefore, Mufasa is scum.

I also agree with Albert about the bussing. I would not be surprised in the least if MoS was scum and used Mr. Flay as a scapegoat to make himself look good.

JVW and Benmage also look quite scummy based on their interactions with the lynch wagon.

Scum:
Mufasa
Benmage
MoS
JVW

*poof*

[Kairyuu]

I posted my sleeping location, then I saw the note. Given that 2 people have now confirmed that I was not lying about my claim, and given that all evidence points to a scum motivator not being a viable role (1 example found, not viable), I consider myself pretty near confirmed.

@MBL: I had posted reasoning for my voting him prior to that point. I didn't feel like repeating myself.

[Kairyuu]

Alright MBL. You need to get your head out of the tunnel. Every time I say anything you call me scum for it. You are also now accusing me of being scum for being V/LA when Flay got lynched, and saying I defended him when, if you'll notice, practically everyone else said the same thing after his claim.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: No. Handing over scum on a silver platter would be motivating ANYONE BUT ISACC, and seeing if the Dismembered kills are reduced by one. If they were, then I would know for a fact that Isacc was a killing role with quite the suspicious kill flavor.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: -twitch-

Conspiracy theories is all you're posting. If anyone listens to your drivel I will be extremely surprised, and extremely annoyed.

[Kairyuu]

Cool. Mufasa claimed scum blocker. Can we lynch him now?

[Kairyuu]

HA!

He didn't even get the win con right when it was posted in the sample pm. If he's not scum I will eat my head (a cookie to anyone who gets the reference).

confirm vote: Mufasa

[Kairyuu]

I didn't quote my win condition

My win condition is I win when are threats to the town are destroyed.

Hmm?

Also, it should be "eliminated," not "destroyed." You're really bad at fakeclaiming if you can't even check the proper win con.

Kairyuu you're coming dangerously close to breaking a rule which would result in a mod-kill.

[Kairyuu]

How much did you wager each Night on each player?

[Kairyuu]

Heh. Caught scum.

N1 start: 3 coins
Wager 1, SpyreX, Wager 2, Shadow
N1 end: 4 coins
N2 start: Wager 1 Kai, Wager 1 Albert, spend 1 MoS
N2 end: 1 coin
N3 start: Wager 1 OGB, Spend 1 OGB
N3 end: -1 coins

The scum can't count.

Also, there's another issue. Why would you wager on the same person you blocked? You thought that OGB was scummy enough to block, but also thought he would be NKed? That doesn't add up.

And one more thing, though it doesn't really incriminate you. OGB was force replaced before the end of Twilight. You would have been wagering on/blocking Setael.

[Kairyuu]

Oh. My. God.

This is better than LoZ: MM Mafia. He did the same sort of thing. I think by the end he was a neutral cop/tracker/log/busdriver. He ended up flipping mafia log/busdriver.

I officially enjoy being in games with Mufasa, simply for the purpose of watching him claim, change his claim, contradict the new claim, fail at math, proving that claim false, and then go down in flames. It's quite fun to watch.

[Kairyuu]

@Mufasa-scum: I do not want to be modkilled, but look back to your original claim post. Know that win con you mentioned? Well. . . .

Claim 1: Wins when anti-towns are gone.
Claim 2: Wins when 10 coins obtained.
Claim 3: Wins when any other faction wins.

Note: 4:30 am. Have been up for ~48 hours. If I'm talking jibberish please ignore me.

[Kairyuu]

Albert confirmed that I motivated him already.

[Kairyuu]

My role pm does not specify what types of actions. It simply tells me that the player I choose gets another action at Night.

Albert is scum. He slipped up when he revealed that kills are Daybreak actions. We lynch him tomorrow after we take care of the claimed scum that is mufasa.

[Kairyuu]

The PM says Night. I'm going to take that up with Kinetic, since I didn't even notice that until now, but that's what it says. I assume it is merely the convention of describing the time when actions are submitted and resolved as Night, but I dunno. We'll see what Kinetic says.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. Kinetic confirmed that I can only motivate actions occuring after my own (which is a Twilight Action). Therefore, I can only motivate Daybreak actions.

[Kairyuu]

@ML: By my count that was the hammer.

@Albert: Mmk. I would like you to explain your response to my accusation. I said that you slipped by revealing that killing was a Daybreak action, and instead of insisting that your reasoning came from Isacc being successfully motivated, you posted merely a sad smily. To me that looks like you realized that you screwed up and outted yourself.

[Kairyuu]

I'm seeing pretty much nothing promoting Kison as scum (pray tell, what have you noticed that I haven't?), but Benmage is a pretty good choice in my opinion. Albert also is going to have quite a bit to answer for come morning, so he would also be a good choice methinks.

[Kairyuu]

Stables.

@Albert: Respond to my questions from D4 immediately.

vote: Albert

If not for the Mufasa strangeness D4 you would have been my first choice, given that I and others had pointed out several lies, including you saying that you must have role confirmation that someone is scum to speak with certainty, and then turning around and declaring with certainty that either Isacc or myself was scum. This would be fine if you had role confirmation of some sort, but a roleblocker is not a role that typically receives results, so you did not have what you stated you needed. Either you lied about needing role confirmation, or you were making a false statement by declaring that you knew for a fact that Isacc and I were scum.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: Liar.

I do not have the ability to say "x is scum" without MOD CONFIRMATION that the player is scum. That confirmation might be a lie, for example if I had a mason partner telling me that he had role confirmation that x is scum, and I believed he was in earnest. But barring unlikely circumstances such as these, I would break an oath by saying "Fabian is scum" like Kairyuu did.

So let me reiterate. I CANNOT say "x player is scum" without role confirmation / death scene / mod confirmation.

("x is scum" is a very definitive statement)

All Aes Sedai can double-check with the moderator if they wish.

As for your suspicion of me, not only do I not care, it's pure OMGUS. I renew my attack on you, and your suspicion of me magically increases.

And as for the daybreak actions, that's not what I was talking about exactly. I was referring to the fact that when I said you were scum who slipped you merely posted a sad smiley, which strikes me as rather resigned. Explain it.

[Kairyuu]

@Mod: Can you fix my tags please?

Fixed

[Kairyuu]

Now I KNOW that they are scum.

You're both scum.

You lied right there, and cannot evade now.

Furthermore, if I break the oaths, the punishment is

probably

not modkill

Hoobajoobawhat?

neither will it be broadcast by the mod...so you just fail right there.

Nope. I believe you just did the failing.

[Kairyuu]

He/I wasn't a godfather. It was a collective power we had that granted all of us investigation immunity and kill immunity for one Night.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert:

Logically speaking, I'm only lying if you're not scum. Therefore we should lynch you first.

Do it. I don't mind a 1 for 1 trade.

Anyway, like I said,

I think

that if I broke an oath I would probably just be robbed of all my powers or something like that. Nothing that you would know of, anyway.

Key words in bold. Go back and read the role PMs for the mini. They detail the specific punishment for breaking the Oaths. You are not an Aes Sedai, and that proves it.

You've been trying to lynch power roles since I said I didn't believe your claim one little bit.

Huh? Explain this to me. I want you dead. At the moment I would prefer you over anyone else to be the lynch. How is that "trying to lynch power roles?" Also, how does your not believing my claim have anything to do with this desire to lynch power roles you apparently see in me?

So you are OMGUSing me.

So it's OMGUS when it's three game Days later, and I have brought forth ample evidence that you've been lying through your teeth? Forgive me if I consider that hogwash.

Also, we can just have another Aes Sedai claim the exact same things at me and that would confirm me as Aes Sedai who didn't break an oath...I can ask my partner to do that if it comes to it.

Ah yes. Get your scumbuddy to bail you out. All that'll do is tell us who to put on the chopping block D6.

Basically, I have several ways of confirming myself whereas you have none, Kairyuu.

So the fact that you already confirmed my ability, as did Isacc, is a failure to confirm myself, but because you say you can get someone else to do the same for you it amounts to confirmation? Pfft.

[Kairyuu]

@SpyreX:

As it stands only things that are objectively lies or objectively wrong due to things SAID BEFORE THE STATEMENT could be construed as lies.

Well then you agree with me:

I do not have the ability to say "x is scum" without MOD CONFIRMATION that the player is scum. That confirmation might be a lie, for example if I had a mason partner telling me that he had role confirmation that x is scum, and I believed he was in earnest. But barring unlikely circumstances such as these, I would break an oath by saying "Fabian is scum" like Kairyuu did.

So let me reiterate. I CANNOT say "x player is scum" without role confirmation / death scene / mod confirmation.

("x is scum" is a very definitive statement)

All Aes Sedai can double-check with the moderator if they wish.

Now I KNOW that they are scum.

You're both scum.

Note that he said he could not claim someone to be scum unless he had mod confirmation that said person was, in fact, scum, and then later proved that wrong by claiming me and Isacc guaranteed scum based on nothing more than a claimed roleblock, which would never result in mod confirmation of anything.

Also:

I didn't directly say "x is scum", at any point.

when combined with the iso post 120 and 121 quotes are ALSO good examples of quantifiable lies.

To take it even further, the fact that Albert doesn't seem to know what would happen if he was caught lying (as evidenced by the "I think" and "probably" when describing the punishments) when, in the mini, the Aes Sedai were told EXACTLY what would happen if caught in a lie.

If the Aes Sedai worked the way you keep going the best thing we could do is have each one just say "of the group X,Y,Z at least 1 is scum" and if they lost their powers hay we've got some innocents. It doesn't work that way because its retarded.

That would still be a stupid plan, since I would assume we would not be told who lost their powers, and would therefore simply be out some power roles without gaining anything.

@Setael: I motivated Faraday, but he's dead, so he obviously can't confirm that.

[Kairyuu]

@TSS: Isacc, the dead SK, has also confirmed my ability.

And my action is a Twilight action. The wording of it was wrong, and Kinetic clarified that it only affects actions that would occur after my role resolves (aka. Daybreak actions).

@SpyreX:

Keep in mind, the flipside of this is if he hasn't lost his powers AND flips town Aes Sedai you, by your own arguments, are dead.

I'm not afraid to die, but you still seem to be forgetting that, in all likelyhood, the mod won't announce if he lost his powers or not. Still, I am reasonably convinced that he is scum.

[Kairyuu]

As I said, I'm not afraid of dying. I'm not going to delude myself that if I'm wrong I'll be kept alive. I expect that if I'm right then the scum will just kill me off already for finally pinning down their reasonably well protected fakeclaimer.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert:

And Kairyuu who doesn't believe in Black Ajah is in complete contradiction to attacking me. So scummy.

I do not think there are Black Ajah Aes Sedai. I may be wrong, but that point is moot. I do not believe you to be Aes Sedai at all, but rather plain old scum. Hence, not contradicting anything.

If you're town then I'm gonna be really pissed, because one would think that such a powerful town role would have the foresight to not make the rest of the town literally force every little tidbit of info out of them.

Answer these questions either yes or no. Do not evade them, and do not ignore them.

1. Do you or your partner have role related information regarding my alignment?

2. Are you able to say that a person is scum as a definite statement if you do not have role related information confirming that?

3. Have you, at any point in this game, been stripped of your powers?

Simple yes or no answers ONLY. Do not evade, ignore, elaborate, expand, explain, or do anything else except answer them directly with a "yes" or a "no." If you do not, and you flip town, I will be extremely angry with you.

[Kairyuu]

I think MBL is being horrendously annoying here, but I don't think that it is enough reason to wagon him. I personally don't care overly much about sleeping locations beyond using them in conjunction with power roles or the notes. I don't think it matters either way.

I could get on board the Benmage lynch. I was plenty suspicious of him in prior Days, and still am to an extent. I think that only one of him and Albert are scum. I'm leaning Albert, but my paranoia is telling me that he wouldn't be acting this blatently anti-town if he was truly scum, so I may switch my vote.

@Albert: You did not answer my questions as I asked. Do so in your next post. They are not trick questions, and your answers to them are vitally important in allowing me to figure out your alignment with more certainty. Don't make me beg.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. I may as well drop my idea that there are no Black Ajah at this point, since if all claims are true then we have 8 of them in a 26 player game, which is nearly 33% of the town. So now I get to do what armlx showed me how to do in Choose Carefully. Only problem is that we don't know some of the pairs, so I have to make a few assumptions.

Pair 1:
Albert + XXXXX

Pair 2:
Benmage + Sajin

Pair 3:
Shadowknight + Kison

Pair 4:
Faraday + XXXXX

So we have 2 remaining Aes Sedai that have not been outted, and 2 confirmed town dead ones. My opinion is that the remaining 2 should claim now. Hell, at this point I think that the town could benefit greatly from a massclaim, possibly to the point of breaking it if we're lucky.

My theory is this:

I think that 2 of the teams are fully clear, and of the remaining two, there are 2-3 Black Ajah members contained within. That means that, of the 5 living Aes Sedai, 2-3 of them are scum. The most likely of these to be scum is Albert, given his marvelous track record of lying through his teeth, which leaves either Benmage/Sajin or the mystery partner of one of the dead ones to be confirmed town.

If you think I'm barking up the wrong tree don't hesitate to point out something better, but I can see this as netting us several scum with limited risk.

I'm happy with my vote.

[Kairyuu]

@armlx: Oh yeah, you're in this game too. You're better than me at this. Assuming 4 pairs of 2 Neighbors each in a 26 person game with the possibility, but not the guarentee, of multiple scumgroups, how many of said Neighbors would you expect to be scum, and what sort of scumgroup distribution would you expect?

[Kairyuu]

@MoS: I'm getting 8 because we have 3 dead, 3 claimed and alive, and two (minimum) alive and unclaimed. That's 8, and assuming more would strike me as strange. Hell, having this many is strange enough as it is, since the mini only had a single pair.

@Mod: V/LA until Monday

[Kairyuu]

Wtf? I leave for 2 days and I get like 7 pages? Grr. Rereading.

[Kairyuu]

@SpyreX: Night 2 I was randomized to the Stables.

@all: Been lazy. Haven't read up yet. Will do soon.

[Kairyuu]

@SpyreX: I obviously support a massclaim. I was the one to call for it initially.

[Kairyuu]

Albert still needs to be lynched today. So many points proving that he has lied, but he still says he has his powers. This makes it extremely likely that he's Black Ajah.

Also, we seem to have some problems with claimed detection results.

@Sajin: Please provide your detection results in this format:

Power from (location)
Power to (location)

Please use a separate line for each detection. For example, if we had two from the river, and one from the Silo, and they all targetted the Stables, it would be:

Power from River
Power from River
Power from Silo
Power to Stables
Power to Stables
Power to Stables

If your ability specifically tells you which power targetted which location, then the format should be changed to:

Power from (location) to (location)

The initial example would then be changed to:

Power from River to Stables
Power from River to Stables
Power from Silo to Stables

This will help clarify the convoluted detection claims.

@Benmage: Please do the same as I've asked Sajin to.

@Albert: Same to you.

@Macavitylock: You too.

@all: I'm now fully caught up again.

[Kairyuu]

@ML: You've already partially claimed them. You may as well put it all in the format I requested. Hell, I'm not even asking for full results, just twilight 4.

Also, I noticed something interesting just now when viewing you in isolation:

All I know is that there are 3 of us who claimed to have stayed at Blacksmith that used saidar, and only 2 "from" detections.

But then:

What? If this is true, are you saying that we should assume that if Sajin's target stayed at the Barn, then no one needed to have been roleblocked for the results as given to have occurred?

So when MBL gave you an out that directly conflicted with the number of detections from the Blacksmith that you claimed to have, why did you not discount it immediately?

[Kairyuu]

@ML:

MBL has claimed that if he's targeted by saidar, no detection location results will occur. This is consistent with there being 3 saidar actions at the Blacksmith last night, but only 2 detections from the Blacksmith.

Not quite. What he said was:

I believe that if a Saidar use on me was detected, that it would be reported as a Saidar use but that no directional result would be given.

Which would mean that for his theory to be true, there would have to be a DETECTED power use that did not show as having a target. From your claim just now there was no such event, so I'll ask again. Why didn't you discount MBL's explanation because it conflicted with your results?

[Kairyuu]

-twitch-

-twitch-

Too .. many .. Aes Sedai

-twitch-

That's just. Umm. How many is that so far? 12 or so?

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. Now that we've got all the Aes Sedai claimed, that leaves . . . umm. MBL is the only unclaimed I think.

@MBL: Claiming now would be a good idea.

@all: At this point I think that partners should be claimed at this time, as well as abilities, usage history, and detection results, with detection results being claimed after everyone has claimed their usage history.

I have a very strong suspicion that we will be catching most, if not all, of the remaining scum once we sort through the results.

Methinks we're in quite a good position at the moment.

[Kairyuu]

I mean fullclaim. We have full claims from every living player except for you.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: Why, when we have the strong possibility of catching several scum, are you opposing this.

Also, why do you STILL refuse to claim when, of 16 living players, there are only 2 we don't know the roles of? You are refusing to help the town. I don't like it.

FoS: MBL

@TSS: Since was under the impression that you had claimed Aes Sedai, the request that I made of MBL goes to you as well. Please claim your role.

[Kairyuu]

@Goat: It's simple. We already have records of all sleeping locations of living players, and therefore, when people claim targets we can cross-reference the sleeping locations of both the targetter and the target with the detection results that are then revealed, and if the to-from setup doesn't match up, we have scum caught either lying about sleeping locations or targets, and neither of those can be construed to be ANYTHING but a lie (and even has the "with the intent to deceive" corrallary that Albert is pushing).

Like SpyreX said, it's a logic puzzle, and one we have a good chance of solving.

[Kairyuu]

Full claim is retarded, but KoC already fucked us over by claiming Yellow. Great job...

If you can't disprove my point then this is baseless posturing. I already pointed out, in detail, how finishing this massclaim will likely give us multiple scum. Why do you oppose it?

[Kairyuu]

@MoS:

What are you going to do when all the targets/claims *do* match up, Kairyuu?

If that happens it is no big loss. It simply tells us who targetted who with what. It gives the scum very little information that they can actually

do

anything with, so there is very little that we risk by claiming, and at the same time it increases the amount that the town knows by leaps and bounds.

I repeat, if you can't disprove my point (and saying that everything might match does NOTHING towards that end) then there is no reason to oppose it, and your opposition is just basless posturing.

Also:

KoC uncorked the bottle as it were. Lets just pretend we've argued about it for a week or so and skip right to where everyone fullclaims so we can move on with our lives

I endorse the above product and/or service.

@MBL:

And I think the claim should proceed one step at a time.

1) Claim AS/not AS (complete)
2) Claim detects for previous nights, look for discrepancies
3) Claim nightaction targets if necessary
4) Claim full nightactions if necessary
5) Claim roles if necessary

I agree with all of those things, but I don't like the order. I think it should be:

1
3,4,5
2

and I don't understand what you hope to gain by telling the scum what actions and targets they have to come up with before they have already claimed their actions.

The way I see it, if we have the detection results claimed first, then the scum will know what mold they need to fit into, and can tailor their claims based on that. If we leave the detection results until last, we force them to commit to claims before giving them the list of source and target locations. It's much more efficient, and will improve the odds of catching scum if we do it my way.

Preview edit: MacavityLock is on the right track, but I still say that leaving the detection claims until the very end is better, and if we do 3, 4, and 5 at the same time it's much faster.

[Kairyuu]

@MacavityLock: I had a rebuttal to this written up, but then I started thinking about it a bit more, and I agree with you because of something I just thought of.

New order in my opinion should be:

1. Yes/No (Done)
2. Color
3. Targets
4. Partners
5. Detections
6. Roles

with 2, 3, and 4 going at the same time to save time.

This will lead to a double pitfall for the scum. If they claim their correct targets, but those targets then don't make sense based on the role that is discovered to match his color, we have caught scum anyway. This allows for MoS to be right (unlikely in my opinion) that everything will match up, but still allows for catching scum through motivational role usage.

Purpose of the Partners claim is that on the off chance that a non-Black Ajah scum claimed Aes Sedai without a partner they will be outted.

And finally, at this point in the game I think that fullclaiming all around is the best way forward because of the amount of information it gives to the town without giving damning info to the scum, as the revealing of roles to the scum is not as dangerous as people seem to think.

[Kairyuu]

@Goat: Why is it unnecessary? Please explain to me why I'm wrong. If you can't then your statement is just as baseless as MoS' was. If you're going to oppose something that has logic backing it up, then you need to provide an actual counter, rather than just telling me I'm wrong.

[Kairyuu]

Ninja'd. I still agree with SpyreX.

[Kairyuu]

Let me make this perfectly clear:

Telling the scum what your roles are is NOT overly damaging to the town

So what if they know your roles? It's pretty far into the game at this point, and we've already got 2 scum and 2 neutrals dead via lynching. Those of you who are so adamantly against this claim need to get your heads out of your asses and look at the potential that these claims hold. If all goes well we might not even need to scumhunt anymore, because we might be able to sort out all of the rest of the scum based on CLAIMS ALONE. Also, given that there are SO MANY of you, in addition to the fact that I can choose one of you to try to motivate each Twilight, means that the scum will now have a decent impetus to block or kill ME now that I have so many motivations to choose from. ALSO, even assuming that they don't, there are THIRTEEN OF YOU, and assuming the scum still have a roleblocker (and if we lynch Albert today, that probably won't be the case anymore), the scum can only stop 2 per night, which still leaves ELEVEN power roles working on whatever it is you're so desperate to keep hidden.

You guys are irritating me so badly right now. Massclaiming at this point is a win/win for us. I don't get why so many people don't agree with me, given all of the logic some of us have presented on the subject.

That said, I've only skimmed the last 2-3 pages, and will not be back until late tonight/tomorrow night.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: Pay attention please.

@Goat: It's simple. We already have records of all sleeping locations of living players, and therefore, when people claim targets we can cross-reference the sleeping locations of both the targetter and the target with the detection results that are then revealed, and if the to-from setup doesn't match up, we have scum caught either lying about sleeping locations or targets, and neither of those can be construed to be ANYTHING but a lie (and even has the "with the intent to deceive" corrallary that Albert is pushing).

Like SpyreX said, it's a logic puzzle, and one we have a good chance of solving.

@MacavityLock: I had a rebuttal to this written up, but then I started thinking about it a bit more, and I agree with you because of something I just thought of.

New order in my opinion should be:

1. Yes/No (Done)
2. Color
3. Targets
4. Partners
5. Detections
6. Roles

with 2, 3, and 4 going at the same time to save time.

This will lead to a double pitfall for the scum. If they claim their correct targets, but those targets then don't make sense based on the role that is discovered to match his color, we have caught scum anyway. This allows for MoS to be right (unlikely in my opinion) that everything will match up, but still allows for catching scum through motivational role usage.

Purpose of the Partners claim is that on the off chance that a non-Black Ajah scum claimed Aes Sedai without a partner they will be outted.

And finally, at this point in the game I think that fullclaiming all around is the best way forward because of the amount of information it gives to the town without giving damning info to the scum, as the revealing of roles to the scum is not as dangerous as people seem to think.

Those were my contributions on the subject, which you must have missed.

[Kairyuu]

Not sure if I mentioned the beginning of it before, but V/LA until tomorrow night.

[Kairyuu]

Will try to post tomorrow. Need sleep now.

[Kairyuu]

I agree with Setael. Claiming sleeping locations prior to Twilight (or during), given the notes situation, is best for everyone.

I've been randomized to the Barn, and I'm not planning on changing it.

Also, I've been neglecting this game. I'm making an effort to catch up, and should have something by tomorrow in the line of a catch-up post.

[Kairyuu]

@MoS: So KoC and I are suspicious because we went with Setael's idea to claim sleeping locations before Sajin made his claim, even though we have had access to the factr that there have been notes left for us each Twilight except Twilight 2? How does that make any sense at all? If we claim sleeping locations now, and then a note tells us that scum slept at a particular location then we have a much narrower lynch pool.

Besides, what does it matter if

I

claim my location early, exactly? I am not going to be doing any Aes Sedai-style claiming tomorrow, given that I don't use the One Power, and anyone targetting me with anything other than a protect is probably scum anyway, given that a)my role, b)Sajin's claim, and c)verifications from no less than 3 players all point to me being town. Speaking of which, I dunno what tss was smoking when he said that I was likely scum, but he needs to explain that to me, since I'm not seeing it.

[Kairyuu]

@tss: Then your accusation is no longer valid, as Faraday's partner (too lazy to look it up at the moment) claimed that he could confirm that I motivated Faraday, and that it had no effect.

[Kairyuu]

I believe Sajin's claim over Setael's.

unvote

vote: Setael

This situation MUST be either/or, and methinks that Setael is quite a bit more likely to be lying. We can take care of JVW vs. KoC tomorrow. I'm thinking that JVW is a decent bit more likely scum than KoC, but Setael needs to die ASAP.

[Kairyuu]

@Goat:

Also, could Mufasa RB the first night? This is also a possibility.

If he did then he would have run out of coins before he got one right, and would have been unable to fulfill the rest of his claimed actions, which have been semi-confirmed as having happened by other players, so this counterexample is gone.

Finally, dead players actions might not show up on the detect saidar depending on the timestamping of those actions.

Answer a simple question and this will be irrelevant as well (and you should know if this came into play or not already, being a claimed Aes Sedai).

Is gentling a Twilight action, or a Daybreak action?

If it is a Twilight action, then it should definitely have been detected if it was used and not roleblocked, as we know based on the fact that Isacc got an extra kill when I motivated him, when my action was later clarified to affect only Daybreak actions, making killing a confirmed Daybreak action. And since Twilight actions resolve before Daybreak actions, his still should have resolved before the kill that took him out.

[Kairyuu]

@MoS: Stop bashing the mod please. It's a good system, and was explained before the game, so you shouldn't have replaced in if you didn't like it. Hell, it's an intuitive system that makes more sense to me than some mods' resolution systems.

@all: Please note that deadline is Sunday. We need to get to lynching ASAP. Setael's "naive" idea is quite scummy in my view, and I think we should lynch him.

[Kairyuu]

Why, who said that?

You just did

Well, if all the scum really are either forsaken or black aes sedi,

But it was more a flashback to the TSS-esque if X is Forsaken vs if X is Black Ajah which is implying no overlap that concerns me.

Well, no; we know there are (or at least were) scum forsake, and there are so many claimed Aes Sedi some of them must be scum. I never said they must be seperate scum groups; I actually argued the opposte.

This was disproven D1 when Fabian could not tell that the One Power had not been used yet, which was one of the major contributing factors in his lynch. If there are Black Ajah (almost certain at this point) then they must be part of a separate scum faction from Fabian and Flay or else fabian must have been foolish enough not to check with them before claiming detections.

[Kairyuu]

More Setael-scum votes please. Keep our no-miss record going for a 5th straight Day and lynch the scum!

[Kairyuu]

@KoC: We're lynching Setael today, not JVW. Just look at his flailing.

@SpyreX: The connection lies in the fact that, if Fabian had black ajah partners, he would have had access to detection results, which he obviously didn't given that he got it wrong. That evidence supports that the black ajah and the forsaken are different scumgroups.

[Kairyuu]

Edit: her flailing, not his. I keep forgetting that Setael is female.

[Kairyuu]

Hiya charter!

Important things to note:

JVW and KoC have both claimed yellow ajah (doctors)

Setael and Sajin have both claimed brown ajah (location cops)

The notes left at the beginning of each Day have been coming from Sajin, with the ones today being from Sajin (Barn contains one scum) and Setael (Barn contains no scum).

One of Setael and Sajin MUST be scum.

Setael is Scummy McScumscum for her last few days worth of rationalizations.

Setael is at L-1.

I

wouldn't mind if you hammered, but I think some of the other players would.

[Kairyuu]

charter, I'm your mason/neighbor buddy. Feel free to ask me any questions in our quicktopic.

Ummm. I didn't get anything about this in my PM, nor any quicktopic.

Whaaaat?!

[Kairyuu]

@Sajin: Did you receive my motivation? If so, why did you not use it? If not, then charter is scum (assuming that Yos' claimed target matches with detection results).

@all: To repeat, I targetted Sajin. The fact that there is no second note means that either I was roleblocked or Sajin failed to use his ability a second time. If it was the first then it is EXTREMELY likely that I've been right this whole time and charter (formerly Albert) is scum and blocked me. The possibility of Sajin using a different power with the motivation is all but nonexistant, given that he is claiming to have only used one ability (given by the "my target" in his last post)

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that I was right, though the Moratorium issue will need to be looked into also.

vote: charter

[Kairyuu]

@charter: You'd better have a damn good reason why you blocked a claimed motivator (who is almost 100% confirmed based on COP INVESTIGATION) right when I started to become truly USEFUL by knowing a decent number of Daybreak actions to be able to motivate. You stopped me from giving Sajin a DOUBLE COP INVESTIGATION.

My vote is NOT moving.

[Kairyuu]

Oh, wait. I just realized something.

That shouldn't even have worked. My action is a twilight action, and I was under the impression that we have mod confirmed the fact that twilight actions, as they occur during the same phase, cannot affect other twilight actions, hence why I was unable to motivate Albert or Faraday to any effect. That charter's block went through is strange. PMing the mod.

[Kairyuu]

That was fast. Apparently each action phase resolves as a normal Night, with actions such as blocks having priority. This explains why charter was able to successfully block me, as foolish as that was.

[Kairyuu]

When I replaced, I was told that's what ABR was doing. Since I had no idea what was going on, I just left it. Don't ask me to contemplate ABR's inner workings.

Pfft. Albert knew for a fact that I was a motivator, since I motivated him Twilight 3. Hence, you're scum. Sorry.

[Kairyuu]

@ML: I was cleared by the Twilight 4 note, which correctly asserted that there were two people at my location. Those two people were myself and Mufasa. We have lynched Mufasa and discovered that he "did not have the best intentions of the town at heart." I do not like how you are throwing crap at a cop who has been doing rather well, and looks quite pro-town, especially, as SpyreX so kindly pointed out, on reread regarding the Fabian issue.

[Kairyuu]

@ML: I was cleared by the Twilight 4 note, which correctly asserted that there were two people at my location. Those two people were myself and Mufasa. We have lynched Mufasa and discovered that he "did not have the best intentions of the town at heart." I do not like how you are throwing crap at a cop who has been doing rather well, and looks quite pro-town, especially, as SpyreX so kindly pointed out, on reread regarding the Fabian issue.

1) That was the twi 3 note, not twi 4. That note was produced by Sajin, not Set.
2) We know that one of the note providers is wrong based on the 2 twi 4 notes, whether scum/naive/etc.
3) Set flipped town, and is thus likely to be the correct note provider.

You are in no way confirmed.

1. Fair enough. I got my times wrong.
2. Yes. We know that one is wrong.
3. So because Set flipped town Sajin must be the one who is wrong, even though his investigation was ACCURATE? If you wish to put your trust in Setael, then you should take note that she rationalized HERSELF to be the naive one, and thought that Sajin was likely also town AND accurate.

ALSO, even if you do not find me to be confirmed, do you consider me likely scum? Do you think that Albert had any REASON to consider me likely scum after he confirmed my ability?

@all: I would be happy with either a charter lynch or a Moratorium lynch today.

[Kairyuu]

I can confirm that MoS accidentally confirmed his role in thread. I remember seeing it. I, however, have no qualms about sharing it. If it's in thread it's fair game, and curious people could just iso MoS anyway. I'll go hunting now and get back with the posts.

[Kairyuu]

@MoS:

lol Kairyuu, that's not what I was talking about, but necroing those posts doesn't help anyone here but me, so why are you trying to help me when I expressly don't want to bring that stuff up?

Why not? They're likely gonna get necroed anyway, so I'm doing everyone a favor and doing it now. Also, when you say it's in the thread you invite people to figure out what you're talking about. I'm just saving people the trouble.

I do want to note though that your power was a scum power in the mini. I based most of my planning around using that to snatch away an endgame situation before I had to replace out. Not saying it is now given the large differences, but it still doesn't really look great.

@all:

Unless there are some hijinx going on, we are still one vote short of a lynch. Even counting my ghost vote, only 8 votes were ever on JVW at a time.

MoS has a ghost vote.

[Kairyuu]

unvote
vote: Yos2

[Kairyuu]

@tss: I was randomized to the barn, like I said yesterday.

[Kairyuu]

f benmage, who I know to be town, lost his powers for THAT then I can't see a scenario where ABR isn't scum.

This^^^

[Kairyuu]

Hmm.

@all: Note the kill description, and then the kill flavor. It appears that strangulation is caused by the One Power.

[Kairyuu]

V/LA until Thursday.

[Kairyuu]

V/LA until Thursday.

Thursday night. Late. Like, midnight EST.

[Kairyuu]

@KoC: Sajin again, and given the absence of a note this time, it appears that he was the one to get blocked.

[Kairyuu]

Mhm.
Yosarian - full claim. Now. If you don't, I can think of no reason why other than you're scum with nowhere to go.

Eh? I full claimed quite a long time ago.

Target claim please.

[Kairyuu]

vote: Yosarian2

@Sajin: Did you receive my motivation?

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Interesting. charter claims to have targetted Yos2, and Yos2 was tracked to tss. Given that there are no other roleblockers as far as we know, that means both charter and Yos2 are lying scum.

[Kairyuu]

My apologies. I was unclear with the reasoning.

charter is not scum because Yos2's actions went through. He's lying scum because he must have actually targetted Sajin. Otherwise we would have 2 more notes sitting here today.

[Kairyuu]

Need location claims from MBL, Yosarian, Kairyuu, JVW, Macavity, and TSS.

Need someome from Blacksmith to claim their detections.

TSS, do you know who Armlx targeted?

I was at the Barn.

[Kairyuu]

I missed my motivation.

[Kairyuu]

@Mora: Why would he do that though? And why would something like this make him scum. All this means is that he DIDN'T kill Macavitylock. I'm not exactly comfortable with this 1-1. I don't think it really is.

[Kairyuu]

Right now I'm extremely suspicious of Sajin and Kairyuu. Kairyuu, when is the last night we've actually seen your motivation result in anything? Was it back when Isacc got the extra kills? I seriously can't think of a time past that point where anyone did anything with a motivation. Can you run through your reasons for choosing each of your motivation targets? Specifically, why motivate Sajin?

We lynch Setael. Despite differences in the PMs between Set and Sajin, Kairyuu decides to motivate Sajin. Nothing results from this. He motivates Sajin again, but Sajin apparently "no longer has access to the one power." And then he doesn't submit a motivation target.

Is there any good reason why I haven't been motivated? Or a doctor?

And then there is Sajin, who has somehow lost access to the one power. This needs to be resolved today.

Sure. Fine. Reasons are as follows:

N1: Motivated Isacc because I was stupid. We've been over that point. (confirmed by Isacc)

N2: Global Roleblock

N3: Motivated Albert because A) I was operating under the "No Black Ajah" premise, and B) He didn't believe I had the ability I did. (confirmed by Albert)

N4: Motivated Faraday because he was my strongest town read. (Confirmed by Faraday's partner)

N5: Motivated Sajin because his notes have been ACCURATE all game, and if it would have gone through it would have been posted right out in the open. (Roleblocked)

N6: Motivated Sajin again after the first try failed. Same reasoning. (Target Stilled)

N7: Was lazy and forgot about it. Tried to send a motivation for KoC when I realized it due to Sajin's notes confirming him town in my eyes, but Kinetic told me I was too late to get the action to resolve.

I find it rather odd that you're STILL pushing the idea that I am probably scum even though I am a) cop confirmed town, and b) A role that is not viable to give to scum, which was proven Days ago. Do you have any evidence that I'm scum other than motivating a cop that we've confirmed is accurate and then forgetting to submit an action (something you cannot prove either way) after he was stilled?

[Kairyuu]

Current list is as follows in my eyes.

Confirmed town:

Kairyuu
KoC
Sajin

Probably town:

Mora
tss

Neutral:

MBL
JVW
Goat

Probably scum:

charter

vote: charter

It's very possible that charter is our last scum. There might be scum contained within my neutral classifications, but I doubt more than 1.

[Kairyuu]

A) Cop confirmed town is a bit misleading. "Sajin" confirmed town is more accurate.

B) Motivator is the kind of role that is

unlikely

to show up on scum, but I'm very hesitant to play "game the mod" in a giant theme game like this. I'm going to stick to analyzing play/how you used the role rather than saying "Oh, motivator, must be guaranteed town".

Where did we confirm that Sajin is accurate?

What do you think about Sajin being cut off from the power?

Sajin confirms you as town. You motivate him a few times but nothing results from it. Sajin loses his powers. You don't submit a target. The two of you have faded into the shadows in recent days.

Preview Edit: Why is Sajin confirmed town? Why is charter scum?

A) Ok. Fine. Sajin confirmed town. Add to that the fact that Sajin is a cop, and what do you get? Right. Cop confirmed town.

B)One example. One example of a scum motivator was found out of the ENTIRE site, and it was a failure as a role, and you're still going to argue that it would be a viable role?

I

confirmed that Sajin is accurate when we lynched Mufasa and he flipped neutral. Given that I know my role, I know that the note was 100% accurate that Night. Also, given that Yos was lynched based off of note info as well, that should distinctly increase the likelyhood that Sajin's notes were accurate even to everyone else.

As to Sajin being cut off from the power, I think this means he's confirmed town. The Black Ajah were so worried about his notes that they finally just stilled him to keep him from posting more.

As to him and I fading into the shadows, what? I've been "in the shadows" since like D4 when we decided to stop playing mafia and start playing solve the puzzle. Given that I'm not holding any important pieces, I'm bored as hell, and was less than interested in putting effort into this game before recently. Now though, we have 2 scum to lynch.

Sajin is confirmed town due to accurate notes that helped us lynch not one, but two anti-town roles.

As for charter being scum, have you not read the game or something? charter is replacing Albert, who I was in a blood feud with for much of the time he was in the game. I proved conclusively that he had been lying in thread, but he never said he lost his powers, and charter still claims to have his. charter is scum.

@Sajin:

@Kairyuu- Do you think Spyrex did not have the town at heart at one point? Whether your answer is yes or no, go look at my twilight 1 notice please.

Took a look at it. The claimed sleepers were Setael, SpyreX, and ????, correct? Since the other two are dead town, that leaves our unclaimed as scum. Does someone have the N1 results that they can look through to find out if there were any ???->Stables detects that didn't match with target claims?

Preview edit:

@tss: Sajin's first note implicated SpyreX, Setael, or ????. Since 2 are now dead town, that does leave a very simple explanation. The scum that was implicated by the note chose not to claim the correct location for fear of being lynched. This is, by the way, rather conclusive evidence that Sajin is not scum.

[Kairyuu]

Scum tracker is plausible. I'm down with a Mora lynch.

unvote
vote: Moratorium

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: N5 was Sajin as well. I was roleblocked (charter confirmed).

[Kairyuu]

I slept at the Barn again. I think I did at least. I sent that location in with my power usage and Kinetic didn't send me a randomized location afterwards, so I assume that the sleeping location stuck.

[Kairyuu]

/sigh

Read the game please. I said I remembered my action and sent in a motivation for KoC, but by then it was too late for it to go through. I mentioned this like yesterday.

[Kairyuu]

Here it is:

N7: Was lazy and forgot about it. Tried to send a motivation for KoC when I realized it due to Sajin's notes confirming him town in my eyes, but Kinetic told me I was too late to get the action to resolve.

[Kairyuu]

Dammit. That's right.

-hopes that Kinetic is still accepting Twilight actions-

[Kairyuu]

Dammit. That's right.

-hopes that Kinetic is still accepting Twilight actions-

/Sigh

Nope.

[Kairyuu]

Damn. Good game scum. You deserve the win.

By the time we started using the detections/locations as the method for determining lynches instead of scumhunting I just got so bored that I stopped caring entirely about whether I won or not.

Props to Sajin especially in my view. You had me completely convinced that you were town. A massive improvement over your play in Majora's Mask and Case Closed (though you impressed me pretty nicely right at the end of both of those as well by nabbing the last scum in endgame both times).

@Kinetic: How come the number of people we needed to get rid of was so high? We only mislynched twice (plus the modkill) all game and still got beaten after a 9 player endgame. Knowing you, I'm sure the balance was there, but I'm curious as to why there were so many, but no pro-town killing roles (as far as I know).