Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Knight of Cydonia]

I look forward to screwing you all over.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Seraphim

because OMGUS is fun.

[Knight of Cydonia]

This is very interesting. Already, we seem to have a split based on whether Aes Sedai should out themselves, which I find interesting, given that all we have as evidence that Aes Sedai may be in this game is the fact that they were in the Mini - which, as Kinetic has already pointed out, this game is intentionally different to. I would be entirely unsurprised if there were other pro-town powers than Aes Sedai, for starters - I believe Rand, Mat, and Perrin (?) are known as Ta'veren, and they certainly aren't Aes Sedai, but the Pattern revolves around them, for example. Shadow Knight's eagerness to get Aes Sedai out suggests that his role may have something we town players do not... such as an implicit instruction to kill all/certain Aes Sedai?

FoS: Shadow Knight

for now, while I ponder further.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ugh - sorry, I got a killer headache, little loopy on painkillers right now. I was thinking of Shadow Knight while typing about the people trying to get everyone to repeat that phrase.

[/b]unFoS: Shadow Knight[/b]

But the point still stands - pushing for Aes Sedai outing when there is no proof yet they exist is pointless, and scummy regardless of whether or not they exist.

Also - the game being before Rand's story =/= no possibility of Ta'veren or other pro-town power roles. Ta'veren are people who the Pattern revolves around - not necessarily channellers of

saidin

, just important people who strange things happen around, for example - they could easily exist. It's also possible we could have male channellers who might go insane (i.e. switch allegiances) after a certain time, or any number and manner of other people who are affected by the Pattern or

saidin

in some way, without being Aes Sedai.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Also - I suck at different BBcodes for different forums.

[Knight of Cydonia]

This whole speculation is so painful.
Wake me when it ends.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Right now? On Day 1 with 6 pages of role speculation and bullshit about how best we can do the scum's job by outing potential Aes Sedai for them? Pretty damn much everyone stupid enough to take part in such a worthless sidetrack, because the more of this deliberately obfuscating crap clogs up the thread, the harder finding scum becomes, and I'm pretty damn sure that most of this crap is coming from scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Fabian - have you "detected" any weaving of the Pattern so far?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I believe Fabian claimed the ability to still people if an Aes Sedai teaches him. I don't know if this extends to gentling saidin channellers, but regardless, it would be interesting to see what happens to SpyreX, because as well as insanity, saidin channellers inevitably fall to a flesh-rot disease, meaning that SpyreX may well not have a chance to harm teh town. However, I think SpyreX made a major slip that is going to push me to vote for him:

1.) Using my power multiple times day 1 until I am actually an SK and get whatever shiny SK powers I might have (which, as will be seen, I can do).

This, to me, sounds like it comes from a role PM, and that SpyreX knows, or at least guesses, that he

will

become an SK, and this is a huge double bluff. I think this is almsot directly from his role PM because in the Wheel of Time novels, it is clearly stated multiple times up until the Cleansing of the Taint that the process of going mad as a saidin user is time-dependent, not dependent on the amount of times the role is used - Rand regularly uses saidin before the Cleansing, implying that the insanity is a process neither sped up or abated by the use of saidin. This suggests to me that Kinetic has included this quirk in the role PM in order to give SpyreX a certain leverage as to when he becomes an SK/whatever when he goes insane. Therefore, I shall

unvote; Vote SpyreX

because the danger of having a male channeller who will inevitably go mad and do some damage to the town is far too great, especially given the current information on his current abilities, which do not strike me as greatly townie in any way.

[Knight of Cydonia]

It's the only avenue we can take though. Do you want an investigable, un-NKable SK running around? No. Do you want that to be SpyreX? Double no.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Gentling generally results in an early death - which suggests that SpyreX would live for a day or two, then die anyway. And as yet, we have no confirmed gentlers - we have a stiller if Fabian is trained, but we have no idea if Fabian can stop SpyreX. I suggest no-one hammers until Fabian gets mod-clarification on this.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Since Fabian is *supposedly* specifically told he/she is a stiller alone, does this mean we may actually not have that option for Aes Sedai in this game?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yeah, ninja'd but SpyreX, I'm not saying "I believe you/I don't believe you" at all, I'm saying I believe you're going to go insane, and I think your "use power X times then go crazy" thing you've talked about is also true, because it deviates slightly from the theme whilst still being coherent enough to make sense as both thematic and a game mechanic.

[Knight of Cydonia]

In his role claim, he mentioned that an Aes Sedai could train him, and that he could learn to still people, IIRC.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Except in the mini he would have become un-NKable, correct? What do we do if we reach end-game, SpyreX suddenly goes fully whacko, and we're unable to deal with him? We lose to an SK we could nip in the bud a lot earlier.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I will

unvote

for now, but I'm still not decided. I can't help but wonder if leaving SpyreX now is going to hurt us tomorrow...
I dunno. Why is Albert scum again?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Every time I have ever seen someone saying "Lynch him/her, they're probably a jester" on this site as their reason to jump on a wagon, it's has come from scum. Until anyone shows me otherwise, that's a black mark against Flay for me.

Is it just me, or does the case against ABR seem to just be "he's playing brashly"? Because with ABR, that's pretty much inevitable whatever he is.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Gentling darkfriends is entirely possible. Whether they'd become townies or scum with no abilities is what makes me think that, while a scum lynch is preferable, a SpyreX lynch will need to happen at some point.

[Knight of Cydonia]

# This is particularly for MoS, KoC and Faraday, but anybody can/should answer:If you don't think SpyreX is a Jester, what do you think his role is?
# What is the best case scenario for dealing with SpyreX, in your estimation? Try not to reveal your role while you're answering this one...

I think SpyreX is a currently pro-town double voter, but on previous evidence of

saidin

channelling roles, I have no doubt he will become something far more dangerous, and anti-town. The best solution, IMHO, is to dispose of him before Day 2 - gentling, killing, or, if we can't find scum, lynching.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Finding scum > getting rid of a potential SK. The Serial Killer is alone - he virtually has to be the last man standing. THe scum can win with a majority, so depleting their numbers to give us more time to find scum is paramount. SpyreX should be lynched if, and only if, we have absolutely nowhere else to go.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Having "extensive experience =/= being right". From the way you acted in the signup thread, you're still as stupid at times as brand new recruits, so trying to play the "I've been here longer, I'm right" card is idiotic. Also - remind me how our power roles can be outed by SpyreX still being alive? Fabian's dumb claim and SpyreX's confusing and dumber claim aside, I don't see any more claims yet.

[Knight of Cydonia]

It's so hard to tell if this is douche-bag ABR or Scum-ABR. THEY'RE SO DAMN SIMILAR.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Because you're going to go after random players, they will be forced to claim, and they're going to be outed before they even get any investigation results in.

Remind me where I said I would be going after random players? Because I'm pretty damn sure

I didn't

Its unthoughtful to go out with very little information on day 1

Which is what just lynching SpyreX is likely to give us...

when you can lynch someone who is guaranteed to become scum later on.

Uhm... where did anyone, even SpyreX himself, say he was going to become

scum

?

Vote: Albert B Rampage

Because now it's gone from being a douche to actual deliberate misrepresentation of people's posts.

[Knight of Cydonia]

We don't care what Spyrex says.

1

Last game, the potential SK wasn't informed that he was going to become an SK. Spyrex has no idea what's going on around him.

2

From the books, all male channelers go mad, AKA anti-town.

Lynching Spyrex means investigative roles get information.

3

1 - Attacking someone blindly like this should never happen if you're town. Town should always be at the very least willing to listen to people, no matter how scummy they think they are.

2 - How do you know this? Kinetic specifically stated that roles would be tweaked this time round.

3 - Lynching scum, instead of someone who isn't an SK yet, and may not be for a while, also gives the investigators time to work. That's why I fully endorse an ABR lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

This is where I see this going:

You bandwagon me to L-2, I claim an extremely important power role.

I agree up to this point, but the fact that you're already trying to breadcrumb this kind of role before a serious wagon builds makes me even less likely to believe you than before.

You unvote and bandwagon a second player. He's a power role too.

Wrong. I certainly see no reason to unvote you.

Then you deadline mislynch someone who you don't even have a strong read on. Great.

Already said several times, but I'll say it again for those of you who can't read - SpyreX should be gentled, or killed, or lynched

if

we have no other real leads at the end of the day.

[Knight of Cydonia]

OH MY GOD STOP CLAIMING ALREADY FOR THE LOVE OF BOB.

On this note, CyberBob will be replacing out, I'm currently looking for his replacement.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...SpyreX, did it ever occur to you scum might NOT have worked it out?

unvote; Vote SpyreX

Before, you were just a potential threat. You're reaching the point now where you seem to be being actively anti-town in your play.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...My God, there's more fishing here than on EuroSport UK at 3am on a Sunday morning.

[Knight of Cydonia]

^ This.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Y'know, I thought I was already voting Fabian, but turns out ABR still had my vote. IGMEOY, though, ABR.

unvote; Vote: xxFabianxx, unFoS; FoS: ABR

[Knight of Cydonia]

No. And if you keep suggesting it, I will hurt you. Besides, there may well be non-saidar scum/pro-town players who will fuck your "results" up bigtime. So until you can confirm the only power roles/ scum with power roles are using saidar and nothing but saidar, you idea sucks balls for that reason, and the fact that it can only help the scum and hinder town in more ways than it might help.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I highly doubt it. With any luck a few of our lurkers will be force-replaced by the mod, which is obviously a pain in teh ass for Kinetic, but we will at least get some more people who are actually playing.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mufasa... what the fuck.
Your first point is entirely invalid, because people can change where they sleep each "night", and this is stated by the mod and other people before you. Also, please consider the fact that MacavityLock, not ABR, first suggested the idea of claiming our locations at daybreak. You then (attempt) to FoS ABR, despite the fact your vote is already on him - and then acknowledge the fact youre already voting him at the end of the post. Pointless.
You then make the assumption that our "Jester" doesn't have a twilight action (I assume this is what you meant by "night role") so we don't need to lynch him, when SpyreX has claimed a saidin channeller, and specifically stated that he does have twilight actions, IIRC. You seem to have just parrotted this part from Mr. Flay.
Your post, therefore, can be summarised as 1 part lie, 1 part parrotting/ignoring the facts, 1 part shamelessly re-affirming a jump on a bandwagon for an entirely crap reason.

unFoS, FoS Mufasa

[Knight of Cydonia]

The more Fabian misrepresents his earlier lies, and the more i look at his "drunk-posting", the happier I get with my vote.
Also: I fail to see how MrBuddyLee asking me two questions early in the game constitutes "buddying up". Lazy scum trying to find a reason to shift a bandwagon?

[Knight of Cydonia]

On one hand, I'm fucking pissing myself laughing at the sheer level of ineptitude dsiplayed by Fabian. On the other, I'm mildly annoyed I didn't get to choose where I slept because I was kinda not expecting things to blow up so massively that I didn't get a chance. Oh well.

In other news - is Fabian (somehow) isn't bullshitting about being a death miller, Mufasa, who has probably been one of the most useless players in this game by a mile, hammered him. Excellent.

MrBuddyLee - Erm... what the funk? You retaliate at Slicey for accusing you of buddying to me, then when I also mention that your posts look nothing like buddying, you whip up a Slicey/KoC/(Insert any of about 5 suspects here) scumteam? What the hell are you smoking, and can I have some?

[Knight of Cydonia]

No, Macavity, I recieved a PM telling me my location has been randomised (Am I allowed to say that? Iunno.), and telling me where I am.

[Knight of Cydonia]

At this point, I'm going to claim

one of

my abilities, because otherwise we could end up with 1-shot pro-town players wasting their abilities:

none of your abilities will work tomorrow.

I have other abilities that I have not used, and they do not involve

saidin

or

saidar

.
I know I've been arguing that there should be no more claims, but if we have 1-shots with useful powers, I don't want them to be wasted tomorrow. I assume this power is why Kinetic made Voting not-an-ability - because it'd screw us over if we couldn't lynch someone tomorrow.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I had to choose a day, and indeed my entire alignment before the start of the game. I picked the Light over the Dark, and got abilities that I can only describe as useless.

[Knight of Cydonia]

WTF? Please tell me you mean that your blocking of Saidar/Saidin will start at daybreak and last until twilight, not that you are blocking abilities during the twilight until daybreak.

From Daybreak Day 2 until Twilight Day 2, yes.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Bah... I suppose once I let people know what was happening today, I was pretty much dead... oh well. Go town, yada.

[Knight of Cydonia]

TO summarise MBL's "defence"
1) WIFOM
2) Stating the obvious
3) More stating the obvious, plus mentioning "others" who agree with him, without actually naming them.
4) Not true. Setael's accusation is that you're trying to discredit the note evidence, after it has already outed one scum. Your reticence to claim is scummy, and the requirement that we trust a person we don't know the alignment of makes me wonder if your role will somehow enable you to fabricate evidence tonight that will clear you/indict someone somehow.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Thank God. I totally agreed with KoC before he got killed that Mufasa needed to be lynched.
*raises glass* This one's for you, dead-me-but-not-me!

*Narrows Eyes*

[Knight of Cydonia]

Barn.
Benmage looks like dead cert scum to me, who knew his kill wouldn't have been blocked by old-KoC's ability. I wonder if old-KoC knew that, or assumed his ability would cover twilight as well? It certainly looked like it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: ABR

because he has been beautifully caught in an outright lie. Also, note at the end of ISO 108 ABR says: "All Aes Sedai can double-check with the moderator if they wish." - I've gotta say, this is probably the least subtle piece of fishing ever. "Hey, this is what I'm saying, and the only way to contradict it is for an incredibly important power role to come out for my buddies to kill!"

[Knight of Cydonia]

Albert, I want to test something.
I saw a note at twilight, and it had some information.
Answering this question for me will confirm your alignment, and possibly the alignment of the note-giver.

One question, Albert, if you truly are Aes Sedai: what is the punishment for breaking one of the Three Oaths?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I want to make your answer clear, ABR - you lose all One Power abilities, permanently?
That is your answer?

[Knight of Cydonia]

ABR's answer fits what I have been told. Therefore to the best of my knowledge, ABR is Aes Sedai. I still consider him likely Black Ajah.
I also think I can now almost certainly say one of the note-givers is pro-town. I'm not entirely sure, but from what I have been told, it would seem to indicate that the person who gave me that information has deep knowledge of the AS role PM.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Uhm, ABR, I'm pretty sure my action/s went through N2, when you claimed to block me. So yeah, lying.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm pretty sure old-KoC specifically stated his ability had nothing to do with either Saidar or Saidin, so we can probably rule him out. I'm pretty sure Ta'veren don't have to use the One Power in order to do what they do.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So, you're honestly telling us all the blatant contradictions in your posts were not with the intent to decieve, ABR?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I could enlighten you as to why you failed to bond me, but I have no intention of doing so. Suffice to say I have a good reason not to do so, and I suspect MoS has a similar reason.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Of course not KoC, why say your scum?

I'm not scum, Benmage.

[Knight of Cydonia]

It should be.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes, because every late vote is scum, Benmage. You're accusing Setael of both being scum pushing the wagon, and scum jumping on the wagon late. She can't be doing both, Benmage. Your arguments are illogical in the extreme. I believe your claim, but please, sober up, get off whatever you're snorting, and start making some sense.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ben, you may have claimed AS, but you're not confirmed.
Nice to see people are FINALLY waking up to the ABR wagon again after the pile of crap that was the Benmage wagon. Anger isn't a scumtell, people.

[Knight of Cydonia]

It does kinda make sense. But then again, there may well be other roles that contributed to that, ABR - we might have a Doctor-type AS, another RB, a bullet-proof of some kind...

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think we have more than 8 Aes Sedai in this game. Much more.

This. I'd be willing to say Aes Sedai are a majority in this game now. Whether or not they're all pro-town... now that's something else.

[Knight of Cydonia]

3 Black Ajah, perhaps, and 3 Survivor Mafia(Darkfriends). THat would make more sense, IMO.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Less speculation, more accumulation of ABR votes please.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mora / KoC, were you informed of being roleblocked?

I refuse to answer this, in my opinion, blatant rolefishing from someone I believe to be Black Ajah.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC/MoS have reasons to understand what i've stated.

Just because I can think of a possible reason you failed to bind me, if indeed you did try to bind me, does not mean I endorse your claim, or in any way consider it proven, or you cleared. Stop trying to misrepresent what I said as a guarantee that you're AS pro-town.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Really? And what are the others? And I don't want a one sentence answer, I want full explanations of "your truth".

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes.

[Knight of Cydonia]

EBWOP: Ah-huh. Right. Your claim is your proof? Sure. Whatever. Claim =/= proof that you're pro-town AS - Black Ajah could easily have all the detection abilities that any others have. Seriously, has it never occurred to you that there might be a damn good reason why certain pro-town roles might not be bondable?
Dude, it seems like the real reason I'm "going up your scumdar" is that I'm asking questions of you, which you're not really answering properly. Only reason for not answering questions properly is that you're scum. Come on, I'm waiting for definitive proof that isn't just "I CLAIMED IT THEREFORE IS TRUE".

[Knight of Cydonia]

Can you show us the seemingly non-existent argument, please, because I can't see it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I slept in the stables Night 2. I hope this is going somewhere soon, because ABR needs a lynch, like, now.

[Knight of Cydonia]

@Benmage - Yes, I have looked at the ML/MBL cases, and I find them to be good cases, but compared to ABR's blatant breaking of at least one Aes Sedai Oath (concerning lying/making statements that you know to be untrue without sarcasm/the belief those statements are true), I find them less interesting. Besides, do you really want ABR in an endgame situation?

[Knight of Cydonia]

IIRC, MoS hasn't necessarily claimed to be Aes Sedai - correct me if I'm wrong.
For me, while the ML/MBL case is good, there's a fair bit that could easily be construed as mistakes on MBL's part rather than actual scumminess. ABR has been scummy, irritating as hell, and is a liability to the town if we reach a LyLo situation, because he

will

be a jerk, making it impossible for us to read him properly. Yes, we'll have the scumminess of his obvious Oath-breaking, but then again, it's ABR - you see where I'm going with this, right?

[Knight of Cydonia]

That’s the thing, I didn’t find your counterexamples plausible.

Why aren't they plausible, Benmage? It looks perfectly sounds to me, to be honest.

[Knight of Cydonia]

More than a talking point - he's scummy enough for certain people (like myself) to go after him, but because he's such a jerk all the time, he seems to have managed to get away with far too much in this game. He's been caught outright lying several times in the course of the game, as a claimed AS, which means he's lying about his claim. Who has a good reason to lie about their claim? Scum do.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If a massclaim is the will of the town, then I will support it. I am pro-town, with nothing to hide, so it doesn't bother me.

[Knight of Cydonia]

The fact that KOC endorses this product or service is another good reason to stay away, IMO.

Would you care to explain this quote regarding the massclaim, tss? You've not really put forward any suspicion of me that I've noticed up to this point, so...?

[Knight of Cydonia]

This is becoming increasingly frustrating and useless. We have a claimed "Aes Sedai" in ABR who has obviously lied several times, and yet appears to have no lost his powers. By that logic, ABR is either lying about being AS, or is black AS. EIther way, he's scum, unless you want to invoke some terrible anti-town WIFOM about him being town lying about being AS for kicks.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I do not have the ability to say "x is scum" without MOD CONFIRMATION that the player is scum. That confirmation might be a lie, for example if I had a mason partner telling me that he had role confirmation that x is scum, and I believed he was in earnest. But barring unlikely circumstances such as these, I would break an oath by saying "Fabian is scum" like Kairyuu did.

So let me reiterate. I CANNOT say "x player is scum" without role confirmation / death scene / mod confirmation.

("x is scum" is a very definitive statement)

All Aes Sedai can double-check with the moderator if they wish.

Now I KNOW that they are scum.

You're both scum.

ABR said he could not claim someone to be scum unless he had mod confirmation that said person was scum, and then later proved that wrong by claiming Kairyuu and Isacc guaranteed scum based on nothing more than a claimed roleblock, which would never result in mod confirmation of anything.

Also:

I didn't directly say "x is scum", at any point.

when combined with the iso post 120 and 121 quotes are ALSO good examples of quantifiable lies.

To take it even further, the fact that Albert doesn't seem to know what would happen if he was caught lying (as evidenced by the "I think" and "probably" when describing the punishments) when, in the mini, the Aes Sedai were told EXACTLY what would happen if caught in a lie. He later went back on this by getting the details of Aes Sedai power loss from lying right.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Weak.

You've got to be kidding.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That's right Koc! You're not playing the game in the spirit it was intended! You're just trying to frustrate the town!

*BEEP*
*BEEP*
Hi there, you've reached Kettle. I'm not in right now, leave a message after the tone.

*BEEEEP*

Hey, Kettle, this is pot. Just calling to let you know you're black. Call me!

*click*

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, I dunno about ML, but you just chainsawed for ABR, and pretty much all of it was nitpicky stuff that is almost certainly as big a pile of bollocks as ABR's AS claim.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I am Aes Sedai.

Uhm... is there anyone left? I don't really care who goes next, to be honest.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Alright, well, I'm partners with Goaty boyo, and I'm a Yellow Ajah - Doctor.

Twilight 1
Actions Sent: Gentle SpyreX
Sleep: Silo

Twilight 2
Sleep: Stables
Detect Saidar: Nothing

Twilight 3
Actions sent: Heal - Goat
Sleeping location was randomized to Blacksmith.


Twilight 4
Action sent: Heal - Goat
Randomly placed in the Barn.

I dunno how useful this is, but wait for Goat and the rest to come out with theirs first. I don't seem to have all the detections other claimed AS do, which is odd.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I do have OP detection, and my Doctor power does use the One Power. I have withheld the detection results because of this:

At this point I think that partners should be claimed at this time, as well as abilities, usage history, and detection results, with

detection results being claimed after everyone has claimed their usage history.

which I agree with. THe only reason I revealed N2 detection (or lack of) is because we all know why nothing happened that night - KoC did his Ta'veren global roleblock.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Nope, didn't get a message.
I'm also seriously wondering about Benmage's claim now... I found it most interesting that as soon as I said I had an idea about why he might not have bonded me, but I didn't want to claim at that point, he jumped on me as scum rather than accepting that - kinda like, oh, I dunno, scum pushing to out an important PR?

[Knight of Cydonia]

MBL, please stop throwing out role-speculation derived BS-attacks.
I mean seriously, you're basically saying "One of the people who is refusing to full claim is obviously going to be a doc, obviously, so KoC must obviously be scum with NK immunity." You're better than that.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Hey, I'm protown. And I was kinda breadcrumbing my Aes Sedai status for a little while - if you look at some of my posts concerning ABR, you'll note that, unlike him, I carefully refrain from ever saying "ABR is definitely scum" - I say I believe he is scum, etc., but I follow the Three Oaths. Unlike him.

[Knight of Cydonia]

On that note KoC et al:

If it isn't the intent to lie that is the issue, but the lie itself, is not MoS caught under that same idea?

So, really, the question is: Do you think they are scum together?

Because as I see it both have now performed the same act and neither have come forward saying they lost their powers for it.

It's a possibility, and I certainly haven't discounted it. I just think ABR's lie was more blatant, and more in contradiction of the Three Oaths as I have been made to understand them in my Role PM.

[Knight of Cydonia]

One of the things that should have been asked with partner claiming: Do you think your partner could be Black Ajah? Why or why not?

Because of his extreme level of lurking and lack of contribution to the game... Yes. Honestly, I am 50/50 on Goatrevolt right now.

[Knight of Cydonia]

In other news - Michael Schumacher is the Stig.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC: Does your heal use the one power?

Yes.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...reason, other than him pointing out your multiple breakings of the Oaths?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Some kinda filehosting thing would be easiest, I guess.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC: Does your heal use the one power?

Yes.

Then I think you're lying when you say you protected me last night, because it's not on my detect Saidar.

Unvote, Vote KoC

Well, I can't explain this, but I don't seem to have several detects either from various nights. I have from Night 4:
Detect Saidar:
From the Barn: 2 from Windmill, 1 from Blacksmith, 1 from River, 1 to Silo, 1 to Windmill

[Knight of Cydonia]

I have had my Twilight 4 resolution changed, and the detects I posted above reflect that change.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, MoS, that does make a lot of sense.
I understand that Seraphim's lurking might not put me in the best light, but I would hope I've been active enough, and have played well enough as town that you will all follow me in doing this:

unvote; Vote julienvonwolfe

.
If it's the town's will that I die, however, that is acceptable to me if that should reveal JVW as lying scum.
Of course, all this assumes that there isn't some massive mod-inspired (and deliberate) mindfuck going on with detections - but that's so unlikely I'll dismiss that.
Incidentally, I'm now almost certain Goat is also scum, possibly JVW's partner. Deliberate fake-detect from scum is obvious, Goat.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KOC is lying scum.

I've advocated this position.

Where, exactly? I've seen a couple of half-baked, sly accusations that have never been properly fleshed out, but I don't call that "advocating" a position.

[Knight of Cydonia]

1 from the barn.

Yes, well done, I was sleeping in the barn. That detect is me, you bloody idiot.
Thank you for making me feel very paranoid.
Since Goat has had his amendment, I feel more secure about him as pro-town for now - most of my worry was centred on what looked like a deliberate fake-detect from him to try and dump me in it. But, seeing as that was Kinetic's fault... meh. THe reaction worries me, in that my action, and by extension my role, has been almost entirely confirmed by his new detects and yet he still finds me more scummy than JVW-obvscum is... odd.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Kinetic specifically asked me not to use any old information concerning my previous role. This includes my old sleeping locations. Unless I posted them (And I may have, but I don't remember) I no longer have the PMs with that info.
In any case, Benmage, old KoC was not Aes Sedai. He was a Ta'veren, whose power was not dependent upon the One Power, as he told us.
Also - do you really think Kinetic would have let me replace in as scum if I had had any worthwhile knowledge as town?
I do not have more game knowledge than the rest of you, and I am not using it in any way for my own benefit, or that of the town.
I am a pro-town Aes Sedai. Not Black Ajah, not scum, pro-town.
And if that's a lie, then I, as Aes Sedai, will lose my powers. And if you want to challenge my being Aes Sedai, feel free, but I am entirely confident you will find nothing outside of meaningless speculation, trivial conjecture and the entirely worthless "scum-hunting" device that is WIFOM to back up any "case" you care to fabricate, Benmage.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Then why, oh lying scum, did you not vote for me, to underline your belief in me as scum?

[Knight of Cydonia]

think it entirely plausible that JVW flips Black. That would clear Yos, damn KOC and pretty certainly damn SpyreX.

Uhm... why would this damn me? Given that, according to Saidar detections, it's

either

me or JVW (by which I mean

it's JVW

), how does JVW being Black damn me?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I attempted to gentle SpyreX from the Silo Night one.
My detections form that night were "1 target to stables, 1 target from river".

[Knight of Cydonia]

Aye. I think anyone opposing this plan could only realistically do so for anti-town motives.

[Knight of Cydonia]

That was old KoC's Ta'veren ability.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mod: my vote is on JVW, not ABR.

Not if it isn't in Red it isn't.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote; Vote JVW

And which means JVW is at L-1. Any last words?

[Knight of Cydonia]

1) I actually intended to vote JVW a LOT earlier, but forgot to put it in red. The L-1 vote if I'd remembered to put it in red, therefore, should have been Goatrevolt. Make of this what you will.

2) Uhm... this is a pile of WIFOM. I could, and I am, just as easily going to argue that as a pro-town Aes Sedai, I instantly therefore knew that JVW was scum, and therefore had no hesitation in voting him. Equally, JVW may well not be voting me because he doesn't want to look as though he's OMGUSing.

Your argument is "if JVW was scum, he would have gone for KoC's throat." What is this based on? Your opinion of what

you

would do if you were in JVW's position. Unless you have a perfect map of everything JVW has, and ever will think in any given situation, your entire "case" against me is a pile of meaningless conjecture on the supposed thought process of JVW. It pre-supposes I'm scum, then works back from that to find a theory, instead of looking at the evidence and coming to a conclusion.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I can't help but feel this entirely valid wagon on JVW is being undermined by certain people, whether directly (Setael) or indirectly (MBL, Macavity) in order to prevent the town lynching scum. I'd be willing to bet heavily on at the very least one of Setael, MBL or Macavity being scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC: Can you verify that your predecessor submitted an action Twilight 1? Did you get any notification of a roleblock?

I submitted a Still on SpyreX, it went through, I wasn't blocked unless Kinetic hasn't informed me of this.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Actually, JVW, lying would only have confirmed you even further as scum. The only way out for you was to claim some kind of detection-screw bullcrap.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Post it now, just in case we get a short twilight.

[Knight of Cydonia]

KoC: Can you verify that your predecessor submitted an action Twilight 1? Did you get any notification of a roleblock?

I submitted a Still on SpyreX, it went through, I wasn't blocked unless Kinetic hasn't informed me of this.

SpyreX was

gentled

, not

stilled

. There was never any reason to

still

SpyreX, as he claimed to be a male channeler, one who uses Saidin. I'm now very uncertain of what JVW's alignment will come up as. If he *does* come up town, this is even further evidence of KoC being scum. Everyone remember this tomorrow.

Ugh, sorry, I meant Gentle. It's way too hot here, and I'm not exactly a huge WoT fan anyway.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I am pro-town, but if by some miracle JVW is town, I will accept the town's decision, although, as a pro-town Aes Sedai, I obviously can't self-vote.

[Knight of Cydonia]

By voting for myself, I would have to consider myself scum. THerefore, in voting for myself, I would be saying that I am scum, and I am pretty sure that's a lie, so I would assume at that point I would lose my powers.

[Knight of Cydonia]

There's an outside chance that the 0/4 note is the corect one, which would dodge that paradox but raises other problems.

Why only an outside chance, remind me?

[Knight of Cydonia]

If we were going to do that, we'd have had to sort it out a while ago. I suppose technically we can still do it, with L-1, and I have no argument against doing so.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I will also be in the Barn.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote

for discussion only. Then, unless we have something better, JVW hangs.

[Knight of Cydonia]

This game is making my head hurt. A lot. It's almost as bad as zwet's Skywalker Mafia... which has nothing to do with Star Wars... or does it? I don't know.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I can't help but feel I'm being set up by Setael here to serve as a mislynch for after JVW goes down today.

[Knight of Cydonia]

FoS: MrBuddyLee

for unnecessary introduction of WIFOM to my head.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: JVW

I think any use this discussion had has petered out now. Back to lynching the scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

It's not stated in my PM whether or not it's Daybreak or Twilight.

[Knight of Cydonia]

The above statement is a pile of WIFOM, and shall be disregarded. They could just as easily say "this claim is so awkward people won't believe it's a lie."

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote; Vote JVW

I have no idea why it was on ABR, because I haven't voted ABR since Day 3, IIRC. Either mod error, or someone is pissing about with the votes.

[Knight of Cydonia]

unvote; Vote Setael

Third on my list, and I'd rather we didn't no-lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think everyone should be given 24 hours to get actions in and comment before we hammer.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm amazed JVW didn't get lynched, to be honest. If anything, JVW/Me was a far simpler 1v1.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm amazed JVW didn't get lynched, to be honest. If anything, JVW/Me was a far simpler 1v1.

Why did you vote Seteal, then? Did you just want a cop dead over a doctor?

Better a lynch than no lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

So, remind me, how have MoS and his cronies decreed we start this day?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I targeted Goatrevolt.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Sajin, please state it openly in the thread, or I will have to question why you're not doing so.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Uhm... wha? Might be the lack of sleep, but I don't see it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mora: What Ajah are you?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I want Mora to claim specifically HIS Ajah color first. Anyone who wants to can go after him, but Mora needs to claim his first.

[Knight of Cydonia]

There is a very good reason I want Mora to claim first.
And I suspect there's a very bad reason you just happen to want someone else with his ability to claim their colour first.

[Knight of Cydonia]

MoS is deliberately trying to get the other player with similar abilities to claim their Ajah colour before Moratorium does. I can't help but suspect that they have scummy motives for doing this.

[Knight of Cydonia]

MoS is deliberately trying to get the other player with similar abilities to claim their Ajah colour before Moratorium does. I can't help but suspect that they have scummy motives for doing this.

"They"? So you are claiming that Moratorium and I are scum together? Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds?

I want everyone else to claim their Ajah color first because I want to see if the other person who has Moratorium's color will claim a different ability from him. I have a chance to possibly catch someone in a lie and find scum. That's reason enough to play things my way. What excuse do

you

have?

I want Moratorium to claim his colour first to prevent the town swinging the wrong way in a 1v1, either by Mora just saying "oh yeah, what he said" to the other color claim, or by lying to deliberately try and discredit the other member of the same colour. Why so defensive all of a sudden? You've basically painted your scummy action (Asking for the other tracker to claim colour so that Mora can go by their claim as to what to colour to claim himself) as being an attempt to do what I want to do by the far more logical route of getting Mora to claim colour, and then, IF the need arises, the other colour can counter it and we've got scum. My way, the other tracker doesn't have to give any info they don't need to. Your way makes it easier for a hypothetical Mora-scum to copy their claim, by giving him the very info Mora-scum would need to fake-claim.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Fucking hell.

[Knight of Cydonia]

And now you've gone and fucked it up. Thanks, Benmage.
That was done so inelegantly, it's almost impossible to believe that wasn't intentional.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Why should the other Blue have claimed first, MoS? You've yet to get a real reason, you're just rubbishing any ideas that anyone should do other than you say so.
Mora claiming his colour first allowed for a counter-claim (if Benmage hadn't stepped in and answered for him for no apparent reason other than to fuck my idea up) if hypothetical Mora-scum had ballsed it up. If the other Blue had claimed first, it actually makes life easier for the scum, because they can then make a concurrent claim, or frame that other Blue.

Arguing for the other Blue to claim is a pile of crap.
Now, who hasn't claimed their target yet?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Benmage, Mora and MoS are beginning to look increasingly like a triumvirate of scum leading each other on here. First Benmage helps Mora claim Ajah colour, then MoS defends Benmage, giving Mora time to kinda drop off the radar, now Benmage is backing up MoS' un-necessary request for basically a full-claim from armlx.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Did MoS just play the "I *know* I'm town" defence? Really, MoS? You've got nothing better than that to explain your pushing for a fullclaim from armlx while rather vocally refusing to do so yourself, despite the fact there was no real pressure on you to do so, unlike you on armlx?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I would like Moratorium, JVW, KoC, Sajin, and charter to claim next. If they don't claim by their next post in this thread, I will be voting them. I am more than willing to wait forever for them to stop lurking and show up again (note: I am not claiming that KoC is lurking, but he has been rather complicit in sidetracking the town lately).

Okay, what the fuck, MoS? You're a far better player than this (as town, at least) than to vote someone for "sidetracking the town", which you know full well is a pile of bullshit - how the fuck is trying to find scum, and then getting rightly pissed off with Benmage fucking it up, however retarded an idea he may have thought it, and you then defend Benmage's actions, before distancing again as soon as he makes a BS vote on Armlx, how the fuck is that "side-tracking the town"? Is it because it's not following the MoS approved timeline for today? And why the fuck should I claim anything just because you say so? And has no-one noticed that MoS seems to have a shitload of abilities while the rest of us generally have one, plus the AS-wide powers of detect, still and gentle? He's claimed some kind of psuedo-cop bullcrap in the past which got Flay(and that early in the game, in a Large, bussing is entirely possible), now he's got a ghost-vote too? With all due respect, MoS, you can take your town-leading, scummy as hell bullcrap, and stick it so far up your ass you choke on it.

Vote: MoS

[Knight of Cydonia]

Fine. You first.

[Knight of Cydonia]

if you didn't like the trap, you could have just supported MOS's plan instead.

I didn't see the trap at first

Uh-huh. Really?

And now you've gone and fucked it up. Thanks, Benmage.
That was done so inelegantly, it's almost impossible to believe that wasn't intentional.

geeze... worst trap ever

:Headdesk:

Good job, benmage. Now we get no information from Mort's claim, and we get no infromation if another blue claims. The whole idea was to test Mort's claim by asking him what color he was, or else to test the hypothetical other blue's claim by getting that guy to claim first; either way we might have gotten something. So why would you speculate on what color he was first rather then see that?

*Stare* it was the worst trap ever...geeze

:Headdesk:

Good job, benmage. Now we get no information from Mort's claim, and we get no infromation if another blue claims. The whole idea was to test Mort's claim by asking him what color he was, or else to test the hypothetical other blue's claim by getting that guy to claim first; either way we might have gotten something. So why would you speculate on what color he was first rather then see that?

*Stare* it was the worst trap ever...geeze

No, we should have had the other Blue claim before revealing Moratorium's color. It was idiocy to do otherwise. But then, that's par for the course for you, isn't it?

Pfft everyone else but you was pushing for Mort to claim first….setting up this magnificent trap…lol…I saved us all some time.

None of these read like someone who "didn't see the trap."

[Knight of Cydonia]

I was in the Barn.
Detects:
1 from Windmill.
1 to Windmill.

[Knight of Cydonia]

No, this is where you let people make their own decisions instead of doing it for them.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mod: Prod JVW?

Aren't you being a little ridiculous? He's posted ON THIS PAGE.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes, but. but. WAAGH. I don't like you anymore, mod. You're mean.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I think I speak for us all when I say... what the fuck?

[Knight of Cydonia]

@ KoC: The healing ability that we yellows have will only protect our target against the first attack, do you agree?

Indeed.

Also: a 1v1 to out either Yos or TSS as scum is fine by me. Scum almost certainly don't have the numbers to maintain 1 for 1 town/scum deaths by lynching, so unless the scum were to break out some kind of massive multi-kill power, this would make no sense for TSS to lie about at this point in the game.

unvote; Vote Yosarian

[Knight of Cydonia]

...using an ability to kill someone, or in a way that leads to their death, only breaks the Oath if they're pro-town, MoS, and the Aes Sedai role PM states that quite clearly. Which you should know, if you're Aes Sedai. And in any case, Kinetic clearly stating that voting is no longer an ability. This should logically include hammering.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Erm... not Yellow-specific, I assume, but I know there may be other Aes Sedai here as well as Goat, but I haven't been told who they are or what they do?
If you want something Yellow-specific, well, I attempt to heal one player during twilight.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well fuck, nice one Benmage.

[Knight of Cydonia]

ABR, you are SO dead for this. You've done far worse than Benmage, and not been modkilled.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Indeed. It appears that we were successful in cutting him off. Note it says "could" rather than "can" channel. As in, past tense.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Indeed. If we lynch ABR-almostcertainlyscum today, or indeed any scum, it might be worth organising a round of gentling/stilling on those we suspect most.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Hm. Poisoning and manual strangulation, indicated non-Aes Sedai kill methods. Interesting.

Detects from everyone before we go anywhere, I think.
From the Barn, I detected:
1 from Blacksmith
1 from River
1 to Windmill

I suspect I already know who the Windmill detect is, so that just leaves the two powers who acted on the Barn from the River and Blacksmith. Let's get this done.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Poisoning is possibly Black Ajah, but I can't think why you would poison someone when you can use the One Power. The fact that the mod specifically stated there were "red marks" around Benmage's neck, however, suggests that that was definitely a kill made without the One Power. Kairyuu, claim your target, please.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mhm.
Yosarian - full claim. Now. If you don't, I can think of no reason why other than you're scum with nowhere to go.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mhm.
Yosarian - full claim. Now. If you don't, I can think of no reason why other than you're scum with nowhere to go.

Eh? I full claimed quite a long time ago.

Should have made that clearer - claim your location, your target, and all detections. Apologies.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Convenient.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, if Goat called it, I'll take it. If it's a lie, it's another 1v1, and if it's a 1v1, always go with the tracker claim, so...

Vote: Yosarian

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yosarian + charter for Black Ajeh, anyone?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I suggest we hold up until everyone gets their various target, location and detection claims in, in that order. Then we lynch the scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yosarian is coming up with more and more convoluted and egregious explanations, when really, the simplest one will suffice: he's scum.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I claimed my target in the first post of this day, IIRC, but it was Goat.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes, It was a heal, ML. I figured keeping Goat alive might be handy. A decision that will hopefully be vindicated when we lynch Yosarian.

[Knight of Cydonia]

tss... you got something to share with us?

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Well, that was quick.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Targets first. I picked Goat. I was not roleblocked.
I want Mora and tss first, then the rest.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Moratorium

Almost definitively scum, now, Mora. How can you justify voting for someone based on them NOT GOING ANYWHERE?

[Knight of Cydonia]

...Okay, I dunno what has happened here. I sent the PM, I can actually find the PM in my history and the subsequent "your message has been sent" page, but it's not in my outbox or sentbox. Which is... odd. I can only assume the forum glitched and chewed my PM up.

unvote

Sorry about this. It's bloody weird, I've got a record of the PM being sent but the forum hasn't acknowledged it.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If you want to lynch me because of a forum bug, go ahead. You'll regret it, but hey, I'll probably be better off not playing with people so stupid as to lynch a doctor because the PM system glitched.

And Mora, if you think I lied, then it's irrelevant, because Kinetic will pick it up and I'll lose my One Power ability.(Although this would be unjust, IMO, because I believed the PM had been sent.) In fact, I think that may be the only reason you bolded it - to try and get me cut off.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, since I've been protecting him every night up until last night, and I didn't do anything last night when there was a kill, plus the fact we're an AS pair, I think he might just have cause to, y'know?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Evidently. Mora, go fuck a cod. If I screenshot that, I will get modkilled, or at the very least cut off from teh One Power. You want to get rid of a doctor or something?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Don't you

want

to somehow prove your innocence, KoC?

Run it by the mod.

Already tried, already denied.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I want to see... Mora's location and detections, and probably Goat's and charter's before I claim mine.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Sort-of Cop > Tracker, and that looks pretty straight up as a 1V1 to me.

Vote: Moratorium

[Knight of Cydonia]

Barn


1 From Windmill
1 From River
1 To River