Lynch All Lurkers Mafia! GAME OVER

[elvis_knits]

vote stephoscope

[elvis_knits]

vote: elvis_knits

She knows why.

:boob card:

[elvis_knits]

Troll gives warm greetings to all!

Troll will

Vote: antihero

as him be the first alphabetically by user name who no has posted yet.

Beyond that, do any object to policy lynching anyone who lurks for 72 hours without giving us lots of warning?

Also, Troll has a curriculum planning retreat on the 23rd and 24th so Troll will be V/LA and might not get posts in those two days. Troll will bring this up again as them get closer.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Troll, if we lynch scum that lurk for 72 hours, yeah, we catch scum, which is good, but they have earned points, which I assume the other teammates can still use.

So, not only should we lynch someone that lurks beyond 72 hours, but we should probably lynch anyone that lurks past 48 hours. I want them dead before earning points.

If you're going to be absent for 48 hours, I propose we have a wagon waiting to lynch you if you don't post before 72 hours.

[elvis_knits]

Read the rules.

[elvis_knits]

If we lynch every 3-4 days, it should be good.

[elvis_knits]

What about RL issues?

Nobody here has a life.

[elvis_knits]

unvote vote zwet

[elvis_knits]

I'm not sure we should be lynching anyone anytime soon, unless they violate the 72 hour rule.

Even if zwet is scum, aren't we better off saving our lynches until closer to deadline, to see what happens? Aren't we in better shape with two lynches at our disposal?

Are you voting zwet?

[elvis_knits]

You asked about giving RL excuses for lurking.

You said you were directing your question at tajo, and he hasn't posted yet.

[elvis_knits]

Official Updated Lurker List

10. antihero
13. q21

[elvis_knits]

Official Updated Lurker List

10. antihero
13. q21

Hey, thats my job Carrrie.

You know my name! I like the way you spanish-speakers trill the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr's.

[elvis_knits]

tajo, why aren't you voting?

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote tajo

If you're waiting for someone to say

I AM SCUMDIDLYUMTIOUS!

It's probably not going to happen.

[elvis_knits]

Like what? Tentative? I didn't notice that before.

[elvis_knits]

Like what? Tentative? I didn't notice that before.

Tentative?

You don't usually vote at the beginning of a game?

[elvis_knits]

You were seeming very helpful with the official lurker list, but not helping lynch someone. I know it's too early to actually lynch someone, but you gotta start somewhere, by uhm, voting, and preferably, wagoning.

[elvis_knits]

elvis finding a half-baked reason to vote for someone other than zwet and remove herself from the wagon is only feeding my paranoia.

I don't like jumping off a bandwagon either, but tajo wasn't voting and now he's oh-my-go-you-sucking-me.

[elvis_knits]

after we're done hanging zwet out to dry, one of you two suckers (get it? oh my god he's sucking you?) is gonna follow him to scum heaven.

Okay, but I call "Not it" on who's dying next.

unvote; vote Zwet

[elvis_knits]

tajo, you are so sucking me

[elvis_knits]

after we're done hanging zwet out to dry, one of you two suckers (get it? oh my god he's sucking you?) is gonna follow him to scum heaven.

Okay, but I call "Not it" on who's dying next.

unvote; vote Zwet

You seem to trust rolf too much. Why is that?

I was already voting Zwet, it's not trust of rofl.

[elvis_knits]

after we're done hanging zwet out to dry, one of you two suckers (get it? oh my god he's sucking you?) is gonna follow him to scum heaven.

Okay, but I call "Not it" on who's dying next.

unvote; vote Zwet

You seem to trust rolf too much. Why is that?

I was already voting Zwet, it's not trust of rofl.

Only cuz rolf pressured you?

It was more the lure of bandwagoning that brought me back.

[elvis_knits]

Post because I am crossing the international date line tomorrow and may get confused.

I need to check who said the scum won't lurk, that post gave me a bad feeling.

Later.

I was but I think its obvious why I thought that.

You discussed it with your scum buddies and agreed not to lurk?

[elvis_knits]

I don't have a clear plan.

[elvis_knits]

Malyss, doesn't Yos feed you MS gossip?

[elvis_knits]

That makes no sense.

I've never heard of a PR like that.

[elvis_knits]

vote mafia ssk

suck one fake pr

[elvis_knits]

ALERT: BMQ hasn't posted since Sat at 4 am, that's over 48 hours.

And I agree tajo is scummy.

DGB, what is your opinion of SSK?

[elvis_knits]

I don't like all this calling out of people that haven't posted for X amount of time less than 72 hours. It's just a distraction. If someone goes over, we lynch them. If we start voting people for less than that, they'll probably turn up, and it's just a waste of time.

Xtoxm is scum.

Keeping track of how long people have lurked is not a distraction. It's important. It will either remind townies to post, or catch us scum. Both are good things.

[elvis_knits]

2 lynches per day.

My role is not goofy, but other people might not want to say.

[elvis_knits]

Scummy:
MafiaSSK
Tajo
Xtoxm
BMQ
q21

I guess all of those can't be scum, but I think scum is in that list.

Also, these people haven't contributed enough (not that they're lurking, but they're not doing much):
image
Malyss
AH
wolfcrier

[elvis_knits]

DGB, as for analyzing q21, this stuck out to me:

Well... I had nothing to do with lynching him, but FUCK YEAH! Scum Death!

Scam faking happy that scum buddy is dead.

[elvis_knits]

DGB infected with WIFOM

[elvis_knits]

DGB, do you think Xyl is scum?

Do you think BMQ is scum?

[elvis_knits]

What I mean is cut the crap WIFOM insinuations and just say what you think.

If your point of view is WIFOM, I'm fine with that. But starting some long vague WIFOM conversation is not helpful because it will take a long time for people to puzzle out what you're getting at, and everyone will be confused and be distracted from lynching mafiassk.

[elvis_knits]

Okay well if see something in XYl, keep interrogating. I don't mean to stop you...

[elvis_knits]

unvote vote populartajo

[elvis_knits]

Sigh.
Bad play, I can prove Im town.

Make your fake claim good.

[elvis_knits]

Sigh.
Bad play, I can prove Im town.

Hmmm. Since you've claimed that, I will vote to lynch you if you can't.

He wouldn't say that if he couldn't. Because we will lynch him in short order if he fails.

I think poptartajo is town.

Like zwet, he's very transparent.

And about tajo... I have this hair raising in the back of my neck that, like zwet, he's not being his usual self.

hmmm?

lol

[elvis_knits]

Sigh.
Bad play, I can prove Im town.

Make your fake claim good.

Carrie, fakeclaims only take time when you have to make sure your actions and target match your claim.

We haven't had night, so your fake claim should not take too much time. Why are you stalling then?

[elvis_knits]

Tajo, you have 6 votes now, I think. I think it's 9 to lynch. If you want to stall and hope BMQ gets to 72 hours, be my guest.

[elvis_knits]

Put me at L-1 and Ill claim.

No. Just claim.

We don't have time to run you up, then get back to the wagon we were on before, if your claim holds.

"Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim can take a lifetime."

Just do it.

DGB if you want him to claim, why aren't you voting him?

[elvis_knits]

dgb who are you voting right now?

I'm still on MafiaSSK, and I'm not voting poptartajo, PERIOD.

I can read the kid's mind.

He's not scum.

but you're spending all your energy railing against stephoscope. why not try harder to get people to lynch mafiassk, or try to get a wagon going on steph in time if you're so sure she's scum?

I agree DGB is scum too.

First she didn't even want to lynch mafia SSK. Then she votes him and attacks steph and defends tajo. Then she tells tajo to claim, which is something you don't do if you think the person is town.

[elvis_knits]

Do you know how certain I am that poptartajo is town?

LYNCH ME INSTEAD.

So he's scum power role and you're just a goon?

[elvis_knits]

Do you know how certain I am that poptartajo is town?

LYNCH ME INSTEAD.

So he's scum power role and you're just a goon?

No she is the only that is reading what I am posting.

There's no reason to be that sure unless you're masons. You claimed tracker, so there's no reason.

[elvis_knits]

does anyone know how long we have between bmq's timer expiring and the next closest lurk timer?

Judging from the last tajo count, Wolfcrier was about 10 hours behind BMQ, but he's since posted. I don't think anyone is close.

[elvis_knits]

rofl, I agree with your reads on tajo, dgb, BMQ, Xtoxm

Why do you think q21 and steph are town?

[elvis_knits]

also, I'm not blindly following. I wouldn't do something I didn't agree with.

[elvis_knits]

I think I buy roflcopter and elvis as town. Unfortunately I don't trust roflcopter to hit scum with a shotgun...

you will trust me after this game

why is it that everyone thinks calling someone's ability to scumhunt into question is a good idea?

especially after you hit scum, I don't understand

[elvis_knits]

DGB still voting SSK

[elvis_knits]

I love you bunny.

[elvis_knits]

DGB still voting SSK

[elvis_knits]

Does dgb usually quit as town? I don't think I've seen her do it as town. As scum, yeah (Invitational).

[elvis_knits]

Seriously, dgb. I don't know why you would quit. We already lynched scum today. Worst case scenario is we lynch a town next. Then we go to night, and people can rethink, do actions, etc. Even if the town is headed so totally wrong, after one lynch, we're bound to correct ourselves.

[elvis_knits]

I find it RIDICULOUS that you people are going after non-interactive Malyss when there has been so much scummy content today.

Going after Malyss at this point is like if you were a doctor and bypassed several patients with gunshot wounds in favor of putting a bandaid on a papercut.

If you want her to contribute more so you get a better read, that I could understand, but being convinced she's scum... no. That doesn't make sense at all.

[elvis_knits]

I find it RIDICULOUS that you people are going after non-interactive Malyss when there has been so much scummy content today.

Have you read my case? I'm not voting her for vague notions of "non-interactivity."

Case on Malyss

DGB, I don't think the case is "bad" per se. It just seems almost inconsequential considering what else has been happening.

[elvis_knits]

unvote vote dgb

Congrats, you have saved tajo

[elvis_knits]

Malyss, who do you think is scum?

[elvis_knits]

I unvoted zwet and voted tajo because he wasn't voting anyone. He was playing the uber-helpful and posting the lurk count, but not actually scum hunting or voting. Plus, when asked him why he wasn't voting, he said because nobody was obvscum. Who waits for obvscum? What kind of a play is that? I've never seen him do that. Then he sucked me, which further proves my point. Also, now he is saying I voted him for absolutely no reason, when I did have reasons and I did state them at the time.

That, in a nutshell, is why I voted tajo. Feel free to look at my posts in isolation to see for yourself. But it's completely bogus to say I jumped off zwet for no reason, or that I voted tajo for no reason.

[elvis_knits]

@ potartajo

Would elvis defend zwet, or would she bus him? After you answer this question, why don't you look at her contribution again. And think outside the box. Some signs are subtle and aren't carved in the Wiki tablets.

Can I answer?

[elvis_knits]

I find it odd that DGB and tajo both have such an easy time reading each other and are assuring us that we can trust them about it.

If I thought either of them were playing like town, I could understand it.

[elvis_knits]

@ potartajo

Would elvis defend zwet, or would she bus him? After you answer this question, why don't you look at her contribution again. And think outside the box. Some signs are subtle and aren't carved in the Wiki tablets.

Its more probable that she would bus him.
But I look at her contribution and it feels a very agressive Elvis, the usual Carrie.
But this is what I dont get. Why do Xyl and rolf think she is town? I would at least put her at neutral.

Read page 2. Look at zwet's interaction with me.

[elvis_knits]

I unvoted zwet and voted tajo because he wasn't voting anyone. He was playing the uber-helpful and posting the lurk count, but not actually scum hunting or voting. Plus, when asked him why he wasn't voting, he said because nobody was obvscum. Who waits for obvscum? What kind of a play is that? I've never seen him do that. Then he sucked me, which further proves my point. Also, now he is saying I voted him for absolutely no reason, when I did have reasons and I did state them at the time.

That, in a nutshell, is why I voted tajo. Feel free to look at my posts in isolation to see for yourself. But it's completely bogus to say I jumped off zwet for no reason, or that I voted tajo for no reason.

Sorry I dont share your playstyle. I didnt realize being mindless agressive was a towntell from me. Cuz its not. And yes that is what always happens to me when I try to be helpful. Someone thinks Im scum. Arg.
If you are so sure I am scum why did you unvote me and revote zwet when rolf came back to the house?
Even worst, why are you voting DGB?

After I called you out, you have become aggressive. Also, I've played with you before, and I don't remember you waiting for obvscum before voting.

I unvoted you because zwet was scummy too and he was the wagon. I didn't want to derail a wagon on someone I think is scummy, but at the same time, I didn't like your lack of voting. I was torn.

I'm voting dgb because she's saving you for no apparent reason, buddying to troll (and you if you're town), threatening to quit and appealing to emotion, and generally her read of who she thinks is scum is opposite to me and makes no sense to me.

[elvis_knits]

I made some comment about the game mechanic that was actually wrong, but zwet said this a few posts later:

Since when are you so acquainted with the deep mysteries of the scum game mechanic?

When asked who he was talking about, first he said tajo. Who hadn't even posted. When rofl and me told him that, he admitted he meant me.

Since when are you so acquainted with the deep mysteries of the scum game mechanic?

who was this directed to exactly, zwet

elvis.

At the point where he made the original comment, nobody was voting him, and there was no pressure on him. He made an attack on me for supposedly knowing scum game mechanics. Do you think he would attack his scum buddy out of nowhere for supposedly knowing the game mechanics (when what I posted was wrong anyway)?

[elvis_knits]

I'm voting dgb because [...] and generally her read of who she thinks is scum is opposite to me and makes no sense to me.

We both thought zwet was scum, correct?

Do you think Malyss is town?

What about MafiaSSK. I say scum. You say: __________.

Malyss... may be scum. Her last post had nothing in it even when I asked her a direct question. So... that's lame at best. Scum at worst. But the case on her is largely circumstantial (I know that doesn't really make sense to use that word... but I hope you know what I mean). I feel like there are bigger fish to fry.

MafiaSSK... he's a daymason, remember? You think he's a scum daymason? That seems like a far-fetched role to me. I think he's town.

[elvis_knits]

Do you think he would attack his scum buddy out of nowhere for supposedly knowing the game mechanics (when what I posted was wrong anyway)?

Yes. He very well might.

If he did that, his buddies might panic and bus him REAL HARD.

Since zwet has no documented foresight, there's no stopping him from pointing his finger at his buddy right out of the gate.

And you think I faked a misunderstanding of the game mechanics that scum would obviously understand?

[elvis_knits]

You're trying awfully hard to make these things fit, dgb.

You're holding onto the unlikely possibility of a scum mason for mafiassk to be scum.

You're holding onto the possibility that I faked a misunderstanding of the rules as some ploy I cooked up with zwet (of all people) to make myself look town, even though he tried to make me look scummy for it.

Gee, I know how much I hate it when I'm scum and people find ways of confirming innocents. It makes your job so much harder, doesn't it? You have to find some convoluted explanation for how a player could possibly scum.

[elvis_knits]

There are things with low probability and things with high probability. You seem to be going after all the things that have the lowest chance of being true.

Steph says mafiassk is town. Unless they're both scum or he misunderstood his role pm, they are both town. If they're both scum, likely they will get caught with night actions or something, or screw up in some other way. Basically, they're fucked if they're both scum. I'm not worried about it.

If you don't read the first two pages and think that I am probably town, fine. But the odds are that I am town. I am not a person who lays traps or can think of strategic plans (town or scum). If you want to discount everything you know about me to hold on to the possibility that I am scum, go right ahead, but most people will see it makes no sense.

And as far as your innocents go, you have provided no reasoning for why they are innocent. You're just buddying if you can't explain why you think certain people are innocent.

[elvis_knits]

Malyss' longer posts, as Xyl pointed out, still contain nothing, and are meant to satisfy some players with lust to read more words from her.

roflcopter is searching for connections to the zwet lynch. He sees defending zwet as the only possible avenue of connection. While some defense of zwet by a buddy is not impossible, I believe it is improbable.

I maintain that Malyss' behavior throughout the zwet lynch, amounts to a "tight-lipped 'no comment.'" This is definitely something that I'd expect a scumbuddy to do. For that reason, I view it as a very strong connection.

I have been scum in multiple teams, and I've seen how scum behaves, over and over again.

(1) A buddy wouldn't put his own self in jeopardy to save zwet.

It's too dangerous. There is no payoff. Also, zwet was a goon, so there goes any rolebased reason to keep him around. With roflcopter rabidly pursuing zwet, and zwet getting little to no support from the town, there was very little room to defend him. If the mafia has power roles, you can bet that none of them defended zwet. Because some weak defense of zwet would be credible from a townie, it's possible there some defense did occur. A strong defense would be entirely out of the question. BMQ's was the strongest defense of zwet (though he may not have known how familiar the rest of us are with zwet's meta).

I'm not saying we shouldn't consider defense of zwet as scumtell; only that it's not the most probable course of action by scum.

(2) The only way to put a buddy like zwet to good use is to bus him.

If I were scum with zwet, I wouldn't trust him not to sell the whole team on page 1. I would be very very happy if circumstances let me bus him, especially if he was a disposable goon. I would look harder in the players that voted zwet for signs of bus'ing. The wagon was very rapid, so it's very difficult to distinguish bus'ers from townies that wanted zwet dead. I would place ortolan as a possible bus'er, but only to a small extent, and roflcopter, to an even smaller one.

I would suspect more scum on his wagon, than off his wagon.

(3) The safe way is to stay completely out of the spotlight.

I can easily see a buddy who is completely overwhelmed and frustrated with zwet's behavior, and how he was lynched, no-contest. Zwet is not easily defensible, and it might have been difficult for a hesitating scumbuddy to find a non-suspicious spot on the wagon. Malyss sounds like she does not want to get caught or draw attention in any way, shape or form, including drawing attraction as a non-content provider the way Empking does.

I'm not finding overwhelming contenders in categores (1) and (2), but Malyss does stand out very strongly in category (3).

dgb, what category does my behavior with zwet fall into?

[elvis_knits]

You are lying Carrie. Im already dead in Nasubi (town), a game we are together, and I didnt vote anyone after 23 posts of my first post..

You made a list of who you thought was scum, town, and neutral in your third post. You were scum hunting. You didn't do some BS about needing to find obvscum.

[elvis_knits]

Meta and feel are valid reasons that are hard to explain other than simply saying that. I get mislynched a hell of a lot because I can't explain my reads. Elvis is looking worse and worse.

I play mostly on gut myself, but I can still explain how I got my "feelings." I can point to exactly what made me think a certain way. Even if you can't be very specific or are not good at explaining, everyone should be able to give some hint of how they came to a certain conclusion.

[elvis_knits]

Yes, they were inconsequential. I can see that. I have wanted to independently track lurkers for myself rather than rely on the veracity of another player's lurker list just in case. I am still rather new to the game and do not have meta information on other players. The zwet wagon seemed fast and I wanted to digest the information before making a definitive statement via vote. I wanted to at least try and get a feel for whether the wagon was town or scum driven. And as far as who I think the scum are, I'm still trying to bloody well figure that out. I don't have a good feel on that yet. Late last night, I at least wanted to give some information on what my thoughts were at the moment and to state where some of my suspicions have been.

Happy Birthday!

Still inconsequential though.

[elvis_knits]

You came out swinging, tajo.

[elvis_knits]

You came out swinging, tajo.

^^^^^In the other game.

In this game, you're saying you didn't have to do anything because it was only page 6? What page do you have to start scum hunting?

[elvis_knits]

You came out swinging, tajo.

^^^^^In the other game.

In this game, you're saying you didn't have to do anything because it was only page 6? What page do you have to start scum hunting?

Its not about pages. And you know this.
Who do you think is scum right now?

If it's not about pages, then why did you use that as an excuse for your lack of scum hunting up until the time I voted you?

And what is up with you telling me stuff like "You know this" "you should know better." I feel like you're trying to manipulate me into backing down.

Who do I think is scum now? DGB and you are my tops. I also think xtoxm, maybe q21, maybe wolfcrier. It has not changed much.

And "came out swinging" just means you were aggressive and scum hunting.

[elvis_knits]

dgb, what category does my behavior with zwet fall into?

Bus.

Then why did I vote tajo in the middle of the zwet wagon? What a sucky bus.

[elvis_knits]

Who do I think is scum now? DGB and you are my tops. I also think xtoxm, maybe q21, maybe wolfcrier. It has not changed much.

Thank you for the town list, haha.

If I was scum, the list would probably be a mix of town/scum, btw. WIFOM!

[elvis_knits]

I can think of no game I have EVER played on this site where I could confirm multiple people as town, on gut alone, and be so completely sure of my read that I was willing to repeatedly insult the very person who pushed for scumbag#1 to get lynched.

[elvis_knits]

I'm starting to like q21 now.

[elvis_knits]

Someone else do the lurker count. Im not going to do it anymore. Blame Elvis.

You're so protown.

LURKER COUNT

:

(hours since last post)

AH - 24

BMQ - 3
DGB - 0
EK - 0

Empking - 28

image - 9

MafiaSSK - 19

Maylss - 8
Ortolan - 9
Tajo - 2
q21 - 2
rofl - 2
steph - 3

wolfcrier - 22

Xtoxm - 4
Xyl - 0
Troll - 0

[elvis_knits]

That's not what I did to you at all. It was the combination of you being active and helpful YET NOT SCUM HUNTING.

[elvis_knits]

I'm starting to like q21 now.

Yes, everybody agreeing with you are obv town and everybody disagreeing with you are obv scum? How does that work?

You tell me.

[elvis_knits]

I don't think I've ever seen roflcopter as scum. The posts he made on this page have made me especially uneasy.

@ roflcopter - can you direct me to a few games where you were scum?

He has some listed in his sig.

[elvis_knits]

So I said, "go back to your QT" as in, "go crawl back into your scum den."

I don't buy that.

"Go back to your QT" implies daytalk. At least that is the way I read it.

[elvis_knits]

You're scum, elvis.

X

[elvis_knits]

here's my version of dgb's scum distribution list:

You know I'm going to bring that up again in end game just to humiliate you.

I don't see how you can KNOW he's 100% wrong. Even if you're town, you should atleast be open to the possibility that some of the others MAY be scum.

[elvis_knits]

BMQ, why aren't you voting?

[elvis_knits]

Also, note this:

3. There will be absolutly no replacements for inactivity, for any reason. Someone may be lurking, or quiet, or flaking, or their computer may have broken, or they may have fallen off the face of the earth, or been eaten by sea monsters. We don't care, it's not our problem.

The only time someone will be replaced is if they request it in thread. (A request in thread for replacement will "stop the clock" on the 72 hour lurker point rule mentioned above.)

OK

Mod please replace me

I hate doing this because the game is going really well, but dealing with school and other things I can't be on all day as some people would like me and is expecting of me... So sorry I really wasn't much of help but thanks for playing with me.

[elvis_knits]

Also, note this:

3. There will be absolutly no replacements for inactivity, for any reason. Someone may be lurking, or quiet, or flaking, or their computer may have broken, or they may have fallen off the face of the earth, or been eaten by sea monsters. We don't care, it's not our problem.

The only time someone will be replaced is if they request it in thread. (A request in thread for replacement will "stop the clock" on the 72 hour lurker point rule mentioned above.)

OK

Mod please replace me

I hate doing this because the game is going really well, but dealing with school and other things I can't be on all day as some people would like me and is expecting of me... So sorry I really wasn't much of help but thanks for playing with me.

I interpreted that as the clock stops for the person wanting to be replaced, not everyone. I could be wrong, though.

HMMM, you are probably right. I'll pm yos and ask.

[elvis_knits]

That makes more sense than what I thought. I realize I now look scummy. However, q21 looks more townie for not taking advantage of my stupidity, which is good info, even if I have to die at some point.

[elvis_knits]

I have confirmation that the lurker shot clock is only put on hold for the person requesting replacement.

[elvis_knits]

I will vote Antihero once he actually passes 72 hours.

[elvis_knits]

Malyss, it's all well and good to lynch lurkers... we will have to lynch AH if he goes over 72 hours.

But that vote of yours is a gimme. You still haven't provided any suspicions on anyone. Voting lurkers is something we need to do, but it doesn't take the place of scum hunting.

I hate to admit I could be wrong, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if AH has been eaten by sea monkeys, and dgb is right about Malyss being scum.

unvote

[elvis_knits]

Dammit, the more I think about it, the more I still think dgb is scum. The scum QT comment, I rate as a real slip. (Also, she does really remind me of how she played in the invitational). But Malyss is taking unhelpful to new heights. I think she's been the least helpful of anyone in the game. And I doubt scum would buss at this point, so I think the chances of them both being scum is not good.

[elvis_knits]

I would seriously consider hammering malyss before AH hits 72 hours, if someone puts malyss L-1.

Whether or not I do it will probably depend on who puts down the L-1 vote, and if I decide to drink the WIFOM kool-aide or not.

[elvis_knits]

Unvote Vote : Malyss

It had to be you, didn't it?

[elvis_knits]

I would seriously consider hammering malyss before AH hits 72 hours, if someone puts malyss L-1.

Whether or not I do it will probably

depend on who puts down the L-1 vote

, and if I decide to drink the WIFOM kool-aide or not.

You being the L-1 vote does not make me burst with certainty.

[elvis_knits]

Disclaimer: I am by no means certain she is scum. I thought she was a good place to try. I said Rofl sucked because is certain i'm scum and refuses to consider that I may be town.

woah, what exactly does this mean?

Translation:

Don't blame me when she comes up town!

[elvis_knits]

If Malyss flips town, we should lynch DGB, then Xtoxm, then populartajo, then BrianMcQueso, then Xyl until if and when one of them flips town.

Nice. My prob town list.

SHould Malyss flip town, who would you rather we lynch?

You're the one who started the "when I come up town, who will die for it?" mindset.

[elvis_knits]

vote dgb

[elvis_knits]

You think antihero is scum?

Really?

I don't know. But in the moments prior to the lynch, a lot of dumb stuff happened, like not letting Malyss claim. Fortunately she was vanilla, but we could have lost a power role.

And the players that didn't give Malyss time to claim, were they noobs or players that should have known better?

I agree. I still think rolf is town but that hammer feels a little bit pressured.

Tajo, have you forgotten you part in the lynching? Hmmm?

[elvis_knits]

I believe the day finished two or so hours before antihero was able to earn any lurker-points.

vote: populartajo

waiting for results also

This feels like preplanned vote.

Explain.

[elvis_knits]

The point is you're like "OMG the end of day was so scummy" when you were a big part of it. And you're not taking any of the blame.

[elvis_knits]

I believe the day finished two or so hours before antihero was able to earn any lurker-points.

vote: populartajo

waiting for results also

This feels like preplanned vote.

Explain.

Obvious. Scum roleblocked me instead of killing me. Ortolan aparently is voting for me unless I give results. How does that work?

Im so the mislynch of today.

Thx for subtly pushing it, though.

So you're saying Ortolan is scum that roleblocked you? Why aren't you voting him then?

Why are you playing the victim? I'm not even voting you.

[elvis_knits]

The point is you're like "OMG the end of day was so scummy" when you were a big part of it. And you're not taking any of the blame.

I dont regret lynching Malyss. I disagree with rolf hammering that fast but I still think he is town.
Whats your point?

The whole pattern of events:

I said I would think about hammering if malyss was L-1.

Xyl tells you to vote malyss.

You vote malyss.

I say I'm not sure about hammering since I don't trust you.

rofl hammers.

I have the most problem with your behavior because you voted malyss conveniently AFTER I said I might hammer, and AFTER xyl told you to vote malyss. Both those things are scummy.

[elvis_knits]

Actually I just looked back to make a case to kill you over that, but I noticed that the part in question is like a quadruple post all in the same minute of me offering to hammer mallys, xyl telling you to vote malyss, and you voting malyss. So I see that youre right about saying your malyss vote was not dependent on me or xyl.

However, your recent appeals to emotion are terrible.

[elvis_knits]

Has Ortolan ever said he finds Xyl scummy, because this was weird:

Current scumteam shotgun: image, Antihero, ortolan.

Explain, scum.

Also because ortolan goes on to explain we should lynch dgb, tajo, and mafiassk, with no further mention of Xyl.

[elvis_knits]

tajo, tracking mafiassk is beyond silly, so claiming to have tried to track him looks bad

even if ssk is scum, the scum are not going to send a mafia daymason who was under intense suspicion to perform a kill

I agree with this.

[elvis_knits]

dgb, I thought you were saying lat yesterday that xtoxm was looking scummy for realz? Why haven't you mentioned him today? (Also, where is he?)

Also, dgb, you were saying that the lynching antics yesterday made a lot of people look bad. Can you give a complete analysis of this, and tell us what conclusions you draw about people's allignments from yesterday's malyss lynch?

[elvis_knits]

BAH FLAT TIRES!

It's not because I trust your opinion (generally I do, but not this game ). It's more I don't want to let you get away with throwing kaka around like it was going out of style, but vaguely at a number of people. If you're going to point fingers, do it for realz, not at the entire crowd. Especially, when the lynch was YOUR IDEA in the first place.

Also, it's possible that getting a more thorough analysis from you will prove you're town or prove you're scum. Which would be good. And I'm not asking for wall of text here. Just your general read of events.

Anyway, we may have to lynch xtoxm first, looking at the lurker count.

[elvis_knits]

One note: no lynching before everyone has posted. If both Antihero and BMQ end up passing the threshold, we'll have to use today's two lynches on them. Trying to rush so the whole day lasts less than 72h would hurt more than it would help.

I'm thinking that Antihero has either flaked or is pretending to (account seems like an alt), but I'll wait until it's official.

We can lynch xtoxm and one of the lurkers to end the day before lurker points come into effect.

[elvis_knits]

AH hasn't posted on the site since 4/20.
BMQ posted on the site yesterday in another game.

If Xtoxm was town he should ask for replacement rather than ask to be lynched.

[elvis_knits]

unvote; vote xtoxm

[elvis_knits]

AH hasn't posted on the site since 4/20.
BMQ posted on the site yesterday in another game.

If Xtoxm was town he should ask for replacement rather than ask to be lynched.

So you can just lynch whoever replaces me without listening to them? Yeh, no.

Why do you think we would do that?

I'd rather you play the game than play victim and ask for death. I don't remember you acting like this in any game I've played with you.

[elvis_knits]

Also, I think Xtoxm has 5/8 votes.

[elvis_knits]

Yeh well I have loads of townies insisting i'm scum, and not caring about anything I have to say. I tire of it. And it's clear i'm going to be lynched before the game is out so why should I put effort in trying to delay it?

Because if you're town, town benefits from you being, like... alive? And trying to lynch scum?

[elvis_knits]

Only 3 more votes.

[elvis_knits]

vote ortolan

[elvis_knits]

Has Ortolan ever said he finds Xyl scummy, because this was weird:

Current scumteam shotgun: image, Antihero, ortolan.

Explain, scum.

Also because ortolan goes on to explain we should lynch dgb, tajo, and mafiassk, with no further mention of Xyl.

[elvis_knits]

dgb, still waiting on that analysis of yesterday's end of day...

I said I don't need a wall of text.

[elvis_knits]

Has Ortolan ever said he finds Xyl scummy, because this was weird:

Current scumteam shotgun: image, Antihero, ortolan.

Explain, scum.

Also because ortolan goes on to explain we should lynch dgb, tajo, and mafiassk, with no further mention of Xyl.

OK. I realize it's asking you to speculate a bit out on a limb, but do you have a current interpretation of what this means for both ortolan's AND Xyl's alignment?

Actually, I'd say scum buddies. Distancing. That's my gut reaction.

[elvis_knits]

dgb, still waiting on that analysis of yesterday's end of day...

I said I don't need a wall of text.

It's here. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 32#1644832

There's not that much text.

So you only blame rofl.

I don't really agree.

I agree that it's weird he didn't ask for a claim. Although, I'm not always big on claims. I think if a person is a power role, they should be smart enough to claim it without being asked. But, the wagon did go fast, and Malyss hadn't posted, so she didn' have a chance.

The failure to give malyss a chance to claim is the only legit point I see against rofl. Has he ever given an explanation?

[elvis_knits]

Has Ortolan ever said he finds Xyl scummy, because this was weird:

Explain, scum.

Also because ortolan goes on to explain we should lynch dgb, tajo, and mafiassk, with no further mention of Xyl.

OK. I realize it's asking you to speculate a bit out on a limb, but do you have a current interpretation of what this means for both ortolan's AND Xyl's alignment?

Actually, I'd say scum buddies. Distancing. That's my gut reaction.

I read it more as ortolan OMGUSing, and maybe an attempt at a simple rhetorical trap.

If it was omgus, he would have listed you in the potential lynches. But he just calls you scum (with no other comments), and then leaves you off the list of lynches.

[elvis_knits]

And thank you all for totally ignoring that roflcopter didn't give Malyss a chance to claim,

AND TOTALLY CONTINUES TO IGNORE IT, AND NO ONE BUT ELVIS IS CALLING HIM ON IT, AND EVEN SO, MEEKLY.

Question: Where is the aggressive elvis-town I know and love????????

I have been aggressive this game. Maybe just not to the people you want. I feel like you're trying to push me to attack rofl, suggesting that if I don't that I must be scum.

I haven't really attacked rofl because I have agreed with so much of what he's said and I generally think he's town.

However...

ROFL: I do want an explanation about why you didn't let Malyss claim.

[elvis_knits]

I am ready to vote dgb (again), but if she has something to say about Xyl I am all for it on the chance that she's town (which I doubt).

Nuttshell: She definitely is playing like in the minvitational. However, she is scummy without any meta reasons. Her play has been generally manipulative, from her appeals to emotion, to her buddying to tajo (if he's town) and Xtoxm, and how she is calling for me to be more aggressive and attack roflcopter and if I don't, I must be scum. She first tried to convince us that bunny sux at scum hunting, and when that didn't work, she called him scum. Also, let's not forget that she pushed the Malyss lynch, who was clearly an easy target.

[elvis_knits]

I'm your friend, dgb.

unvote, vote DGB

[elvis_knits]

BACON RAMPAGE!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[elvis_knits]

DGB, if you self-hammer, you better be scum.

[elvis_knits]

so dgb, what was that black and red number up there supposed to prove?

He's been saying I'm scum since page 3.

Why won't he vote for me now, now that I'm practically begging him to put me out of my misery, and help bring the town one vanilla closer to losing?

Perhaps steph hasn't seen you pull these shenanigans before?

[elvis_knits]

Perhaps steph hasn't seen you pull these shenanigans before?

I asked him to vote me. I have expressed my eagerness to instantly self-vote. That's two more reasons he's got to want to vote me.

But the first time I saw you act like this, I really felt like an evil person for voting you. Now, you've toughened me up, and it's no big deal. I can understand someone feeling bad about lynching you at this point.

[elvis_knits]

I don't give a rats ass

I believe you're supposed to say:

I don't give a rat's tutu.

That's what DGB would do.

[elvis_knits]

My internet was fucked yesterday and I'm giving a party tonight. I may not have time to give real thoughts until tomorrow, but I thought I'd post so nobody thought I was eaten by sea monkeys.

Also, I don't think rofl is scum.

[elvis_knits]

I am having serious doubts about tajo's claim, seeing as we don't have any dead power roles.

Also,

vote image

[elvis_knits]

^5

You know what I mean.

[elvis_knits]

Can we keep petty fighting to a minimum?

[elvis_knits]

this isn't petty fighting, this is me trying to inspire xyl to stop active lurking, and remind him if he keeps it up he'll get lynched sooner rather than later for it

Do you think Xyl is scum?

I agree he should not active lurk, but I also don't think he's scum. So there might be better ways to inspire him than pointing a shotgun up his ass.

[elvis_knits]

I prefer:

2: I point out whatever I find very interesting, along with general thoughts.

[elvis_knits]

Also, if Image comes up scum, Ortolan is town.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, Orty started wagon on image today, and this post looks good to me:

we're gonna need to policy lynch Mastin soon unless he posts

everyone else has posted today

I agree with rofl that image's case against him is blatantly opportunistic

That being said I don't think the case against her is as strong as rofl is playing it up to be.

As I've said earlier, I long stopped caring about my win condition and just want to prove them wrong, and hope the town loses. I'm sure that sentence is worth 1.5 votes on average. But I just don't care. I'm fighting really hard against the urge to self-vote at this point, and that sentence is probably worth another 1 vote, firm.

However, this post is in and of itself a pretty compelling argument.

Vote: DGB

.

This looks like classic scum trying (badly) to look better out of a mislynch. It's got the classic ingredient of expressing hesitance about a town wagon before the fact with no good reason.

It's extra scummy this time because he actually votes her for her own words subsequently. How can a case "not be as strong as rofl is playing it up to be" yet still be worthy of your vote?

I had a look at back and 1457 and 1465 are also very scummy.

1465 is more casting aspersions on people post-wagon. 1457 is complete WIFOM over the scum's choice of night-kill.

Unvote
Vote: image

[elvis_knits]

FOS is for wimps and scum, BTW.

[elvis_knits]

I'm in wimp mode right now. It happens right around after I've been heavily pushing three town wagons.

You're going to need to buck up or faketrackertajo is going to try to lynch you.

[elvis_knits]

Xyl, what are your thoughts on tajo?

[elvis_knits]

I think I decided Xyl was town because he said he'd blacklist DGB if she was townie self-hammerer.

WIFOM, he could be faking it, and scum secretly cackling to himself. But I tend to see scum giving more subtle indications that they like townie-self-hammerers, or atleast don't actively discourage it.

[elvis_knits]

Tajo, care to explain how you are a tracker in what appears to be a mountainous setup?

[elvis_knits]

Good point about masons. I forgot about them.

I have said numerous times why you are scum.

[elvis_knits]

Nuwen, why do you

assume

that my misunderstanding of the ruleset was a planned scummy lie? Have you seen people fake misunderstanding of the rules before? If so, you need to cite this.

Also, I don't know what statistic you're talking about saying that

48 hour lynches are statistically more likely to hit town due to scum:town player distribution.

If that's true, it's not like that's a commonly known fact. I only said we should lynch someone before 72 hours because I thought a scum could lurk, get lynched, and then transfer points. If you choose to believe that I was lying about a misunderstanding of the ruleset, you are free to do so, but realize that it is all your assumption.

General play reeks of opportunism [insert links/quotes to d1 wagon hop on MafiaSSK based on PR, vote switch to Tajo after Xyl/Rofl began wagoning, multiple attempts to dismiss DGB's posture gleaning with the WIFOM wand, response to accusation of blind following in 448, very fluid in adapting to current line of discussion (or even disagreeing with it, as seen in start of Malyss' wagon 727, but making no effort to redirect back to stated "more productive" line of discussion)

"Opportunism." This is a very vague statement and could be applied to almost anyone in any game.

I had reasons for all those things that I did. And I was never mindlessly following or jumping on every wagon. I'm not going to go through every move I made with you especially when you're just lumping everything together without explaining how things are scummy. If you have specific questions or comments on a few things, I'll go through it with you.

[elvis_knits]

I'd like Nuwen to explin why she assumes Steoh has made genuine mistakes and is town, but I am faking mistunderstandings and am scum. Double standard ahoy.

[elvis_knits]

Nuwen, I was in the game you reference and am also dead. I don't remember you faking a misunderstanding of scum mechanics. All I remember is you trying to argue that you thought lynching power roles benefits town. That's not a good comparison.

There are probably between 1:4/1:3 scum to town in this game. Any given lynch is more likely to hit town than scum, especially lynches that follow straight policy. Forcing policy lynches based on a 48 hour lurking schedule effectively creates more mislynches - a 48 hour period of inactivity is almost equally likely to come from town as it is scum and doesn't bear the inherent pro-scum benefit that a 72 hour lurk does. Yes, a 48 hour period of inactivity slows down the game, but until that lurking time hits 72 hours it isn't inherently scummy. I'm not condoning two day periods of inactivity, but I certainly don't find it reason enough to policy lynch.

FAIL.

You can argue that a straight random lynch is more likely to hit town because there's more town in any given game. But when you factor in LURKING, a lurker lynch is probably more likely to hit scum, even if I shorten the time period. Especially if all players are aware that we intend to lynch people who lurk past 48 hours. A townie would make every effort to avoid screwing the town in this manner.

I'm not sure what that wouldn't be "commonly known." It's a statistical intuition. If I reach into a bag containing ten red marbles and one green, I'm far more likely to pull out a red marble. Pushing policy lynches on a behavior that isn't 100% inherently scummy increases the chance that town players will be in the policy lynch pool, increasing the number of accessible, easy mislynches.

See above. Lurking

is

scummy. Especially in a game called LYNCH ALL LURKERS. Townies know to make every attempt to avoid lurking.

And I still think you are using a double standard to make a case on me as scummy.

[elvis_knits]

Not BS.

Assume a game with Players_1-10. There are three scum, two with odd numbers and one with an even number in their names. Thus, players with odd numbers are more likely to be scum than those with even numbers.

One player suggests that policy lynches on even numbers are a good idea, because that pool contains scum. It's true that the pool of even numbers contains scum (players who lurk for 48 hours are likely to be scum), but it's far better town play to go after odd numbered players (players who have lurked for a full 72 hours). Trying to set up policy lynches on a pool that probably contains more town players is really anti-town to me.

THIS IS BAD REASONING!

LYNCHING LURKERS IS NOT THE SAME AS LYNCHING PLAYERS WITH EVEN NUMBERS!

LYNCHING LURKERS IS NOT RANDOM!

[elvis_knits]

when did this game become a math problem instead of mafia?

Yeah, a math problem where Nuwen uses no numbers.

You know it's bad when I can beat someone at logic or stats.

[elvis_knits]

Nuwen, you never answered this:

quick qs -
nuwen, what do you make of zwet's early dig at elvis over her rules related posts?

[elvis_knits]

Also, Nuwen, your theory that lynching lurkers at the 48 hours mark is more likely to hit town is still not correct.

If everyone knows we intend to lynch lurkers at 48 hours, town would know to avoid that.

I dislike all of your strategy/math analysis. It is very easy to adapt stats to fit your needs, especially when you're not using numbers or any kind of provable quantity. You're relying on some imaginary "statistical intuition." As a math person, you should know that is a load of crapola.

You're ignoring most of the game, and most of the players to hit on one thing that I said that actually should tell you that I am town. You're actually ignoring logic to make graphs and analogies to try to prove that I am scum. You are not making sense. It reminds me a lot of the other game, where you were scum pushing the idea that "lynching claimed power roles is statistically more likely to hit scum, so let's lynch all power roles."

Nice try.

unvote; vote Nuwen

[elvis_knits]

Its kinda awesome how Elvis and me got to different conclusions in almost the same time.

What do you think of her kraplogic? For a maths person it is surprisingly fail.

[elvis_knits]

Tajo, you don't need to be a maths person so see that she's not making sense.

I don't know if she's more likely scum than image. But she's scum, and she needed my vote.

I think it's really scummy to try to "unconfirm" people. When you're scum, it sucks to have people confirmed town, so you search for ways to argue that they're unconfirmed. That's what she's doing, and using the crappiest logic to do so.

[elvis_knits]

I also would like an answer to tajo's 1798

You're ignoring most of the game, and most of the players to hit on one thing that I said that actually should tell you that I am town.

What is this and why should it tell us you're town, also?

Read over the first two pages of the game. See where I misunderstand the rules in a way that scum would obviously be familiar with. See where Zwet attacks me (before there were votes on him) and tries to throw suspicion on me.

If you don't think I'm town, that's fine. But you would have to assume that I cooked up a fake misunderstanding and faked a fight with zwet scum (which would be an awful choice of player for me to do that with), to think I'm scum.

I don't really care if you don't think I'm town based on these events, but it's horribly convoluted to think I'm scum based on these events.

Also, I wasn't in WIH2, and I don't know what you guys are talking about all the times you reference it. But if Nuwen used stats in a scummy way in that game too, that makes two confirmed cases where she presents bastardmath as scum. This game would be the third. That seems to be her scum MO.

[elvis_knits]

stop unvoting image, everyone

I will revote image if we all agree Nuwen is scum and will die next.

[elvis_knits]

image, you are full of crap.

Nuwen's point makes no sense. She is saying that lynching a lurker is the same as lynching randomly, and more likely to hit town.

This argument is bad. The conclusion is false. Lurking is a scum tell, especially in this game, called LYNCH ALL LURKERS.

And wtf are you doing pulling things out of context like me saying I am scum. I know you said it was out of context, but you didn't explain the real context. You just left it there like "neener neener neener." Atleast have the decency to post my whole original post. Here's the post:

unvote; vote tajo

If you're waiting for someone to say

I AM SCUMDIDLYUMTIOUS!

It's probably not going to happen.

[/url]I'm voting dgb because she's saving you for no apparent reason, buddying to troll (and you if you're town), threatening to quit and appealing to emotion, and generally her read of who she thinks is scum is opposite to me and

makes no sense to me.

(Bolding mine) DGB explained the reasoning behind her votes; even if you disagreed with her, you should have been able to understand where she was coming from. It appears that you are, at best, being close-minded, and at worst, looking for excuses to help make you vote more justified.

When I say that a person's reasoning makes no sense, I am saying that I disagree with it or don't see where a pro-town person would think that. I'm not saying that I am literally confused to the meaning of her words and are voting her because I fail to understand where she is coming from. This is not a hard concept.

Also, what you are hitting on my expression of her reasoning "not making sense" but not commenting on my other points about appeal to emotion, buddying, and her reads being opposite of mine. Do you find these points invalid?

Also, let's not forget that you helped lynch DGB.

This is the post where you vote DGB:

That being said I don't think the case against her is as strong as rofl is playing it up to be.

As I've said earlier, I long stopped caring about my win condition and just want to prove them wrong, and hope the town loses. I'm sure that sentence is worth 1.5 votes on average. But I just don't care. I'm fighting really hard against the urge to self-vote at this point, and that sentence is probably worth another 1 vote, firm.

However, this post is in and of itself a pretty compelling argument. Vote: DGB.

image, how did you go from attacking rofl, to voting with him? And why did you simultaneously say rofl's case on DGB is bad and then vote DGB?

This is scummy because you're joining the bandwagon and throwing the suspicion on other people at the same time.

At the point where he made the original comment, nobody was voting him, and there was no pressure on him. He made an attack on me for supposedly knowing scum game mechanics. Do you think he would attack his scum buddy out of nowhere for supposedly knowing the game mechanics (when what I posted was wrong anyway)?

So by doing this, zwet not only distances himself from you, he

also

puts on the same illusion of not knowing the rules. It is perfectly safe for him to "attack" you over this, since he

knows

it is an invalid point based on incorrect rules, and that this will be pointed out long before any real wagon builds on you because of it. You repeatedly using this interaction as an argument for yourself being town is noteworthy, at least.

If you want to read the interaction the opposite way than makes sense to me, fine. I will say nothing more on it.

Except that you are purposely putting me in a bad position by arguing with me about it, and then saying I am scummy because I keep talking about it. So if I answer you at all, it only strengthens your point. This is like when someone attacks another player, waits for a defense, and then, no matter what the person says, you can say "ooooh overdefensive!"

I don't even know the jargon for this. Is it straw man?

[/url]You're trying awfully hard to make these things fit, dgb.

You're holding onto the unlikely possibility of a scum mason for mafiassk to be scum.
...
Gee, I know how much I hate it when I'm scum and people find ways of confirming innocents.

No one is confirmed town, Elvis. Also, please apply this same principle to other people who have been calling for an SSK lynch. What are your thoughts on Xyl? (@Tajo: Yes, I know I said I'd do a reread on Xyl. Elvis looks more interesting, though. Xyl-read tomorrow.)

Steph and Mafiassk are confirmed as masons. They confirm each other. Maybe one of them is a scum mason. I don't know how to go about checking this. I've never been in a game with a scum mason. I don't knwo how to judge this possibility. I may be wrong, but see the possibility of scum mason as much lower than just regular masons. Perhaps I am wrong on this point, but I think that because I've never seen scum mason in any game I've played. I have heard of it, but never seen it.

And while you are technically right that nobody is confirmed town, you can often tell from certain events that a person is more likely to be town. Sometimes, VERY likely to be town. A town player looks for these sorts of things so that they can narrow down lynch possibilities. A scum player hates this because the pool of possibile lynchees gets smaller and the chances that they get lynched increases. So they look for ways to argue that players accepted as VERY LIKELY TOWN, could possibly, maybe, be scum. Like snowballs chance in hell chance of being scum.

[/url]

And as far as your innocents go, you have provided no reasoning for why they are innocent. You're just buddying if you can't explain why you think certain people are innocent.

Aye, that is NOT true. I have shown all my calculations. That is NOT true at all.

This. Lying.

WTF are you talking about. DGB was talking out her ass. Please show me where she provides adequate reasoning for assuming tajo or anyone else is town. She just repeated herself dogmattically and referred to vague meta reasons.

I was not lying. YOU are lying.

[/url]My current read on elvis is that she seems to know that I'm town, while voting me. Adding to this that she's not actually scum hunting the way I've seen her do as town is very suspicious. I hope you will challenge her vigorously after I die.

Anything to say to this, Elvis?

I have something to say: she's wrong.

Also, all her points are fail.
1)I never voted her while thinking she was town. Show me where I did that.
2)I am and was scum hunting. Show me where I haven't scum hunted.
3)As to my meta as a scum hunter, I think this is impossible to prove one way or another, but even if you tried I think this would fit perfectly with my town game.

[/url]

Who do I think is scum now? DGB and you are my tops. I also think xtoxm, maybe q21, maybe wolfcrier. It has not changed much.

Thank you for the town list, haha.

If I was scum, the list would probably be a mix of town/scum, btw. WIFOM!

I cannot think of a townie motivation for saying something like this. The only potential thing I can think of is that Elvis is trying to cover a mistake of listing only town players... Even this explanation seems a bit contrived, though. I'm going to file this one as scummy based on the fact that a list like this would be most useful after you have flipped and have a confirmed alignment, and in this case, any statement conditional upon you being scum is worthless, so why bother posting it if you are town? Also worth noting that of the original list, only q21 and tajo are still alive; the other three have flipped town.

I don't even understand your problem with this, so I don't know what to tell you. I was shooting the shit with DGB.

As for me being wrong about DGB and xtoxm, they were acting hella scummy and self-hammered (which is scummy). You helped lynch DGB. I don't know what you thought of xtoxm. But don't you think they both acted scummy? Were my conclusions so unfounded?

[/url]

One note: no lynching before everyone has posted. If both Antihero and BMQ end up passing the threshold, we'll have to use today's two lynches on them. Trying to rush so the whole day lasts less than 72h would hurt more than it would help.

I'm thinking that Antihero has either flaked or is pretending to (account seems like an alt), but I'll wait until it's official.

We can lynch xtoxm and one of the lurkers to end the day before lurker points come into effect..

More of this trying to rush speed lynches, which I still believe is scummy.

I saw not point in waiting around when Xtoxm was being so scummy. The mechanics of this game call for a faster paced game than normal.

[/url]I'd like Nuwen to explin why she assumes Steoh has made genuine mistakes and is town, but I am faking mistunderstandings and am scum. Double standard ahoy.

Personally, I'm not convinced that Steph is town. Especially since it was Xyl who came up with an excuse for him claiming confirmed mason instead of unconfirmed, instead of he himself.

Finally, Elvis, your recent defense against Nuwen's case has been focusing on a single point of hers and misinterpreting it, possibly deliberately. Based on the points that have been brought up by Nuwen recently, as well as the points mentioned yesterday by DGB gives me enough reason to

Unvote

,

Vote: Elvis

.

Why are you so pro-Nuwen when you agree that Nuwen's analogy about lynching lurkers is bad, and you also don't think Steph is town? You should be having serious problems with Nuwen!

I am not misinterpreting Nuwen's point, deliberately or otherwise. If there are other points of hers you want me to focus on, I will do it. I have spent a great deal of time responding to everything you have said about me, and that should tell you I am not trying to avoid anything.

Also, I do not like how you are citing DGB as one of your reasns to vote me. SHE WAS A TOWNIE! Everything she said was her opinion. Seeing as you voted her, thought she was scum, and she self-hammered, this might not be the best game to believe her! You should take those sorts of speculations with a grain of salt. Townies can be wrong. Use your own brain, and don't blame stuff on DGB! That's scummy.

[elvis_knits]

Steph, what is your read on SSK?

[elvis_knits]

See, I can't think of any good reason not to lynch SSK.

I am, however, worried how the image wagon is turning into the SSK wagon.

I think Xyl voted SSK first. Then I think Ortolan voted SSK. Both votes were a bit strange since XYL said he wished he could hammer image, and Ortolan is the one who started the wagon on image.

[elvis_knits]

xyl (and ortolan): do you still think image is scum?

[elvis_knits]

This is idiotic.

You know what has happened since we lynched Zwet?

DGB got her panties in a bunch and led a charge on malyss. Then Day 2 we have two self-hammering townies in DGB and Xtoxm.

Now you people are like "Elvis and rofl have led the town to rack and ruin." I fail to see how it's anyone's fault that DGB and Xtoxm decided to give up and suicide rather than be replaced.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

[elvis_knits]

Why are you so pro-Nuwen when you agree that Nuwen's analogy about lynching lurkers is bad, and you also don't think Steph is town? You should be having serious problems with Nuwen!

Oh, I missed the first clause of this during my first response. I think Nuwen's analogy was bad, as in poorly constructed. I think her original point was perfectly valid.

I do not. Please explain how her point is valid. I have explained repeatedly why I do not agree with her. You, however, keep saying she's right, while not even going into any specifics of what you agree with or even restating her argument. I see no indication that you even know what she's talking about.

[elvis_knits]

When I say that a person's reasoning makes no sense, I am saying that I disagree with it or don't see where a pro-town person would think that. I'm not saying that I am literally confused to the meaning of her words and are voting her because I fail to understand where she is coming from. This is not a hard concept.

Also, what you are hitting on my expression of her reasoning "not making sense" but not commenting on my other points about appeal to emotion, buddying, and her reads being opposite of mine. Do you find these points invalid?

I find the other points more valid, yes. I am more concerned with you offhandedly labeling all of DGB's reads as nonsense, which you did, regardless of whether it was your intent or not.

What is your problem with me saying I don't agree with DGB and her reads make no sense? In what way is this scummy?

image, how did you go from attacking rofl, to voting with him? And why did you simultaneously say rofl's case on DGB is bad and then vote DGB?

This is scummy because you're joining the bandwagon and throwing the suspicion on other people at the same time.

rofl's case on DGB was weak, and should not have led to a lynch. It might not have, had DGB not begun threatening to self-hammer or call for votes. Asking for votes and threatening to self-hammer is enough to earn my vote, though, almost regardless of the strength of the case on the person.

What was wrong with his case on her? It seems like you want to blame him for DGB's self-destruction, which is not fair. It is scummy to blame that on anyone. If you're not trying to shift blame onto rofl, explain what your purpose is with this point.

If you want to read the interaction the opposite way than makes sense to me, fine. I will say nothing more on it.

Except that you are purposely putting me in a bad position by arguing with me about it, and then saying I am scummy because I keep talking about it. So if I answer you at all, it only strengthens your point. This is like when someone attacks another player, waits for a defense, and then, no matter what the person says, you can say "ooooh overdefensive!"

If you'd left it after the two sentence, that would have looked fine; however, now it looks like you are attempting to make me look bad for asking mentioning another explanation of what we have observed. I'm not saying you look bad for continually mentioning it; I'm saying that it is worth noting that you repeatedly bring it up to make yourself seem more townie.

YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE ME LOOK BAD! You're voting me and making cases on me. Why would you mention it if you weren't trying to say I am scummy because of it? What would be the purpose of mentioning it if the implication is not that I am scum?

Steph and Mafiassk are confirmed as masons. They confirm each other. Maybe one of them is a scum mason. I don't know how to go about checking this. I've never been in a game with a scum mason. I don't knwo how to judge this possibility. I may be wrong, but see the possibility of scum mason as much lower than just regular masons. Perhaps I am wrong on this point, but I think that because I've never seen scum mason in any game I've played. I have heard of it, but never seen it.

And while you are technically right that nobody is confirmed town, you can often tell from certain events that a person is more likely to be town. Sometimes, VERY likely to be town. A town player looks for these sorts of things so that they can narrow down lynch possibilities. A scum player hates this because the pool of possibile lynchees gets smaller and the chances that they get lynched increases. So they look for ways to argue that players accepted as VERY LIKELY TOWN, could possibly, maybe, be scum. Like snowballs chance in hell chance of being scum.

So why aren't you applying the same criterion to Xyl as you did to DGB? What are your thoughts on Xyl?

What criterion are you talking about that you want me to apply to Xyl?

My thoughts on Xyl? I think I have stated them quite recently if you had been paying attention. I lean town on him for his reaction to DGB. It's WIFOM, he could be acting, but I think scum would be less likely to discourage self-hammering. This is not a hard and fast read, it could change. But he continues to think for himself and seem logical in addition. I would of course re-evaluate if he said something that bothered me.

[/url]

And as far as your innocents go, you have provided no reasoning for why they are innocent. You're just buddying if you can't explain why you think certain people are innocent.

Aye, that is NOT true. I have shown all my calculations. That is NOT true at all.

This. Lying.

WTF are you talking about. DGB was talking out her ass. Please show me where she provides adequate reasoning for assuming tajo or anyone else is town. She just repeated herself dogmattically and referred to vague meta reasons.

I was not lying. YOU are lying.

Please go read DGB in isolation. I agree she doesn't provide much reason beyond meta for believing tajo is town, but she backs up her other reads better. And it is a significantly different assertion that she provides "no reasoning" than that she provides "no adequate reasoning". DGB explained why she thought each person, even tajo, was town.

I am right. I'll have to make another post to catalogue all the times DGB made unsubstantiated town reads. She gives reasons for BMQ, but hardly anyone else.

[/url]My current read on elvis is that she seems to know that I'm town, while voting me. Adding to this that she's not actually scum hunting the way I've seen her do as town is very suspicious. I hope you will challenge her vigorously after I die.

Anything to say to this, Elvis?

I have something to say: she's wrong.

Also, all her points are fail.
1)I never voted her while thinking she was town. Show me where I did that.
2)I am and was scum hunting. Show me where I haven't scum hunted.
3)As to my meta as a scum hunter, I think this is impossible to prove one way or another, but even if you tried I think this would fit perfectly with my town game.

Mostly included this to see how you would respond. I myself have not seen enough from you to be convinced that you are actively scum-hunting; I'll let others reach their own conclusions. Of course, if you want to post any evidence you have that you've done some good, solid scum-hunting, please, by all means, go ahead.

Weren't you just attacking me for trying to prove I'm town? And now you're trying to trap me into doing it again?

The burden of proof is not on me to prove I am town. The burden of proof is on you to prove I am scum.

This method you are using to attack me is a classic scum tactic. Here's a link: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... n_of_Proof

[/url]

Who do I think is scum now? DGB and you are my tops. I also think xtoxm, maybe q21, maybe wolfcrier. It has not changed much.

Thank you for the town list, haha.

If I was scum, the list would probably be a mix of town/scum, btw. WIFOM!

I cannot think of a townie motivation for saying something like this. The only potential thing I can think of is that Elvis is trying to cover a mistake of listing only town players... Even this explanation seems a bit contrived, though. I'm going to file this one as scummy based on the fact that a list like this would be most useful after you have flipped and have a confirmed alignment, and in this case, any statement conditional upon you being scum is worthless, so why bother posting it if you are town? Also worth noting that of the original list, only q21 and tajo are still alive; the other three have flipped town.

I don't even understand your problem with this, so I don't know what to tell you. I was shooting the shit with DGB.

Why would you make a statement that only has meaning if you are not town?

It was a ridiculous answer to a ridiculous comment. It wasn't supposed to have any real meaning except to show how stupid DGB's stateent was.

As for me being wrong about DGB and xtoxm, they were acting hella scummy and self-hammered (which is scummy). You helped lynch DGB. I don't know what you thought of xtoxm. But don't you think they both acted scummy? Were my conclusions so unfounded?

At the point you made this statement, yes.

Again, tell me what arguments you found unconvincing/flawed.

[/url]

One note: no lynching before everyone has posted. If both Antihero and BMQ end up passing the threshold, we'll have to use today's two lynches on them. Trying to rush so the whole day lasts less than 72h would hurt more than it would help.

I'm thinking that Antihero has either flaked or is pretending to (account seems like an alt), but I'll wait until it's official.

We can lynch xtoxm and one of the lurkers to end the day before lurker points come into effect..

More of this trying to rush speed lynches, which I still believe is scummy.

I saw not point in waiting around when Xtoxm was being so scummy. The mechanics of this game call for a faster paced game than normal.

No, the mechanics call for us to make sure that no one lurks for 72 hours. We have a deadline of at least three weeks for each day, and quick-lynches are still helpful to scum. What I was confirmed about was the "and one of the lurkers" bit at the end, not the "lynch Xtoxm" bit, since Xtoxm had asked to be lynched at this point. But pressuring a speed lynch on one of the lurkers before 72 hours from start of day seems bad.

(In retrospect, the best play would have been to wait for either of the lurkers to post before lynching Xtoxm; if neither posted for 72 hours, then both should have been lynched that day, and Xtoxm lynched the next. This avoids the possibility of both lurkers being scum and both getting points when we only have a single lynch left.)

I was looking to lynch players for being scummy, not for lurking over 72 hours. I didn't want to sit around and hope a player would reappear, and if they didn't, I would be forced to lynch them, letting players who were acting legitimately scummy live for another day. Everyone in this game, town and scum alike, should be trying not to lurk. Because we have to lynch someone who lurks beyond 72 hours, no questions asked. We cannot allow scum to earn points. But I don't want to rely on that mechanic to dictate who we lynch.

Also, I do not like how you are citing DGB as one of your reasns to vote me. SHE WAS A TOWNIE! Everything she said was her opinion. Seeing as you voted her, thought she was scum, and she self-hammered, this might not be the best game to believe her! You should take those sorts of speculations with a grain of salt. Townies can be wrong. Use your own brain, and don't blame stuff on DGB! That's scummy.

Yes, DGB was town. I can now be absolutely certain that she was not pushing a scum agenda in her posts. Thus the reasoning she has presented, mostly before she broke down, is valid and should be used. The fact that she had a similar read on you reinforces my belief that you are scum.

A town players reasoning =/= correct.

Especially when town player was making all sort of emotional bad moves like suiciding.

[elvis_knits]

I'm liking elvis less and less tbh. Her insistence that zwet claiming to have said to her "Since when are you so acquainted with the deep mysteries of the scum game mechanic?" makes her obv-town doesn't hold water.

Why is it all coming down to this? The more you people talk about it, the more I am obligated to respond, and then you say I keep talking about it. There's a lot of other stuff out there. Look at my play as a whole.

I don't like how you're piling on here.

[elvis_knits]

I don't have time to go through all of Nuwen's post just now, but this stuck out to me so I'll just make a quick post about it:

Why are you so pro-Nuwen when you agree that Nuwen's analogy about lynching lurkers is bad, and you also don't think Steph is town? You should be having serious problems with Nuwen!

And here's where Elvis' alignment becomes obvious. Trying to build a case on one piece of alignment disagreement ("I think x is scum and y thinks he's town, so y must be scum!") is scummy. A difference in opinion is not an absolute scum tell (is this how you operate? Dear god).

You are completely misrepresenting me. I am not building a case on one peice of allignment disagreement. I do not think you're scum because you think steph is town (although you repreated attempt to throw blame on people who are prob town is significant).

You are completely misrepresenting my case on you. I think you are scum because you have manufactured a completely fail piece of logic and called it a statistical intuition and made stupid mathmatical anlysis to try to make me look scummy.

In the beginning of the game I thought that scum could share lurker points, so I suggested we lynch a player before they lurk past 72 hours. You have said this is inherently anti-town because lurking is not an anti-town activity if it doesn't go beyond 72 hours.

My points are:
1)Lurking is always an anti-town activity.
2)If we agree beforehand to lynch at 48 hours of lurking(or 60, or whatever), town should know to avoid this. Making the act of lynching lurkers less likely to hit town.

You have never responded to these points. You have made graphs and called your assumptions statistical intuition. That is just another word for BS.

Also, I have called you on your habit of using math and stats to suit your own scummy ends, as demonstrated in a number of games. This further strengthens my case against you.

[elvis_knits]

God

[elvis_knits]

I will probably vote elvis tomorrow btw (with reasons). Just a heads up in case she gets speedlynched, flips scum and I look less-than-optimal for not having voted her.

It's going to take you a whole day to make up some reasons? You're slow.

[elvis_knits]

What's the main scum tell on EK?

I look forward to my attackers answering this.

[elvis_knits]

But he's fueling retarded fires.

Last couple pages all he's done is piggyback on stupid points or be like "oh yeah, explain that again it seemed scummy." He's subtly supporting lame points.

[elvis_knits]

I appreciate it when players don't eliminate themselves from their own scumhunting diagrams. Is it a scumtell when they do?

I think it makes you look unfair, so I try not to do it as town or as scum.

I can understand a town eliminating themself from their own calculations since, obviously they know they're not scum. But when you do something like tajo did, where it's designed to help the town by giving a record of lynching, you should be unbiased and include yourself.

Especially since he had to actively delete himself from a number of places, I'm not a fan.

However, I don't want to go through the lynching tajo debate again. I originally wanted to revisit him since I forgot about the masons and thought this game might be mountainous. Since it seems like it's not, there could be a tracker. Hopefully someone can check him at some point...

Let's focus on more productive avenues like Nuwen, image and mafiassk. These are my leading suspects.

I also noticed empking was on every lynch, and he is useless as usual.

[elvis_knits]

Mastin's posts are useless and as far as I can tell only show he's counting the number of posts, and judging the average length of them. I don't see how this helps him or anyone else judge scumminess.

It worries me because it seems designed to look like he's scum hunting but there's actually no value there.

@Ortolan,

Nuwen's point is not valid. How is lynching lurkers more likely to hit town? I do not comprehend.

Don't you think it's significant that I can show you two other games where she has used crapmath as scum?

And yes, I do blame DGB and Xtoxm for being mislynched. One of your jobs as town is to make it hard to lynch you. This increases the chance that town will see you are town, and increases the chance that scum will show they're scummy. The worst thing you can do is make it easy for yourself to be lynched because it makes it harder for the town to see town from scum on your lynch. And hammering yourself deprives the town on info.

If DGB and Xtoxm had made it harder to lynch them, they might not have been lynched. A number of people voted them purely because "asking to be lynched" is scummy. And we cannot start assuming people are town when they appeal to emotion and ask to be lynched. If we do, we open a door for scum to fall back on this behavior and avoid lynches. That would make it infinitely more difficult to scum hunt.

[elvis_knits]

image, if we agree beforehand that we will lynch lurkers after 48 hours, it is not likely for town to do it. Most people can get online to post "hi" every 48 hours if they know they have to.

How do you know that RL emergencies normally last for more than 48 hours but less than 72? How do you know the ratio of players that we can expect RL situations to happen to? And how do you know this number is higher than the number of scum trying to lurk?

Besides, I only suggested this because I thought scum could share their lurker points with their teammates even if lynched after 72 hours. I was trying to prevent scum from getting an extra kill. That's the only real reason I thought we should do it, and I don't see how it would be detrimental to the town if everyone agreed to do it, and thought they could handle posting every 48 hours.

[elvis_knits]

I just know that there is a non-zero probability of an RL emergency lasting for between 48 and 72 hours; as a result, the probability of an RL emergency lasting 48 hours is greater than the probability of it lasting 72 hours, since all that last 72 hours must also last 48 hours. It follows, then, that the odds of a townie being inactive for 48 hours are greater than the odds of one being inactive for 72 hours.

Further, it does not matter what the ratio of scum trying to lurk to people with RL issues is; all that matters are the people who are lynched by one policy who would

not

be lynched by the other. Both policies catch all the scum trying to lurk for 72 hours, but one is more likely to catch innocents as well.

If you only suggested this policy lynch based on a misunderstanding, why are you still trying to defend it? Why not accept that Nuwen's point that this is a bad policy is valid?

Maybe I'm wrong but I still think lurking is a scummy activity no matter time duration.

And I am still defending it because she is trying to say that it was scummy for me to suggest it. AND she has never mentioned the circumstances of my suggestion. It's not a bad policy given my understanding of the rules, even if you think I'm wrong about everything else.

[elvis_knits]

Tajo, based on your analysis of lynches and who was on and off what wagons, who do you tihnk is most likely to be scum? Because I don't think you ever said.

[elvis_knits]

I might vote SSK, I might not. It's not like he's pro-town, so I don't oppose the lynch. But I don't really love utility lynches.

Also, why is everyone so intent on killing SSK when Empking is equally useless? Why doesn't anyone care that Empking has done nothing but come in and join the leading wagon every time?

I am somewhat concerned because I feel like we're abandoning scum hunting in favor of utility lynches on people who are never helpful. That's not to say we should give them a free pass to act they way they do... it's just that coming off yesterday with two self-hammering townies I'm afraid that we haven't gotten much information from lynches. Both lynches were so easy that scum could easily hide on the lynch, or not even come anywhere near the lynch because they didn't need to help to make the lynch go through. Utility lynch will give us equally little information... unless one or both of them are scum.

But lynching them now gets rid of the problem for later, so maybe we should do it.

I'm not voting until rofl comes back though. I don't like the idea of ramming through a lynch before rofl gets back to give his thoughts.

[elvis_knits]

Also, the Mastin situation is really obnoxious. Player replaces in when he's in 14 other games, leaves us hanging for a long time and is like "I'm slow at rereads, don't know when I'll get to this..." And then when he posts something, it's these really useless records of how many posts each player made and how long the average posts is.

It makes me suspicious because I've seen scum make similar excuses so they don't have to join the fray, and it just encourages others to keep fighting amongst themselves.

I would even support Mastin not reading anything prior to today's start, and just joining in and rereading when he can. He needs to start playing. I don't care if he doesn't reread everything.

[elvis_knits]

Also, why is everyone so intent on killing SSK when Empking is equally useless?

Because I'm not false claiming a post restriction?

That doesn't make you town.

[elvis_knits]

I think it matters.

I just think it's weird that you're not getting ANY attention.

[elvis_knits]

That doesn't sound like this:

Also, why is everyone so intent on killing SSK when Empking is equally useless?

I not really clear on the SSK business, tbh. Steph said he was a mason and confirmed town and the SSK said they aren't confirmed to each other, I think. Steph said he's faking the pr? Or have we caught him violating?

[elvis_knits]

Yeah, it's pretty convoluted.

But God, I hate the notions of masons being unconfirmed. I think the point of being masons is you know the other one is town and you work together. If you don't know the other is town it's just the same as not being masons, except you can talk out of thread, which it sounds like SSK is not doing. The whole thing is massively annoying to me.

Or perhaps I am cranky.

I think I expected steph to be more helpful sorting this out, too.

[elvis_knits]

I know that 1844 was a long post, but it brings up some good points about image. image hasn't answered. Here's the link: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1844

And here's the tl;dr version:

1)image attempting to blame rofl for the DGB lynch.
2)image arguing that "DGB totally backed up all her reads!1!" as means of making me look like a liar.
3)Flips the burden of proof and asks me to prove that I am scum hunting.
4)Maintains the cases on Xtoxm and DGB were bad although he never backs it up and says what was bad about the cases.
5)Thinks we should follow DGB's suspicions because she flipped town. Problems with this include that a) pro-town players are not always correct; b)dgb wasn't showing a lot of great judgement this game with the self hammering; and c)why isn't image trying to follow any of the other dead townie's suspicions.

unvote; vote image

[elvis_knits]

A few people seem to be dominating the conversation unhealthily here, I think I'll try being a follower for a while and see where I'm led.

^^scummy

[elvis_knits]

we are not lynching mafiassk because being a piss poor player and a piss poor sport does not make him scum, and none of the arguments for why he is scum are anything more than "lol look at how badly he's playing his role"

I really dont want any of SSK or Emp making it to endgame. I really dont. If they are town, scum are prob never going to kill them and going to use them to win the game.

It has happened before.

I understand this sentiment, but a utility lynch at this point would be bad since yesterday we had two lynches that don't yield very reliable info.

[elvis_knits]

It has nothing to do with meta Xyl, I would think that anyone saying they plan to try to be more of a follower is scummy.

[elvis_knits]

It has nothing to do with meta Xyl, I would think that anyone saying they plan to try to be more of a follower is scummy.

Fair enough. So you think following is bad?

Yeah.

Follower = bad

Agreeing = fine

There's a difference. I think it's important to try to find common ground within a town and it's okay to agree with people, but that is not the same as mindlessly following.

[elvis_knits]

Where did "mindlessly" come from? Nobody said anything about mindlessly following.

That's the way I see "following." A lack of individual thought, lack of responsibility for your won actions, since you're just following.

If you're thinking for yourself I wouldn't see it as following, but more of agreeing/working together.

[elvis_knits]

*looks at player list*

Oh yeah, ortolan is scummy too

I thought you said he was being stupid, not scummy. What changed?

[elvis_knits]

Posts with no reasoning:

I'm ready to confirm the first townie of the game.

*applause*

Xtoxm!

*fireworks*

BTW

I loooooooooooooooooove the Troll.

Gawd I love the troll. I think I may just get down on one knee and propose.

I like copter's analysis.

I think Zorblag's defense of zwet was reasonable and properly thought out and I wouldn't hold it against him.

Xtoxm's defense is more indirect, and pretty suspect.

Brian McQueso's defense is so huge, I find it hard to believe that a scumbuddy would spend that much energy, and waste that much of his own credibility defending zwetscum.

And about tajo... I have this hair raising in the back of my neck that, like zwet, he's not being his usual self.

I think poptartajo is town.

Like zwet, he's very transparent.

Poptartajo is town. He's not listed in your PM. Go check.

I'm still on MafiaSSK, and I'm not voting poptartajo, PERIOD.

I can read the kid's mind.

He's not scum.

Do you know how certain I am that poptartajo is town?

LYNCH ME INSTEAD.

The first is the personal attack that has no place in this game.

He started it.

Where?

Who cares where.

Xtomx is town. I'm only a little less certain about roflcopter.

I still maintain that potartajo is town.

Posts with some reasoning:

I did a re-read and these are my notes. I'm expecting a phone call to give someone a lift and I'll have to leave, so no time for links. I apologize for the sketchiness (and my earlier loss of patience), but I like to start with an overall read, and then a deeper read.

Zorblag is town. His assessment of zwet was very fair.

There is a small probability that copter bus'ed zwet. He needs to catch scum for his ego, even if it may be his budy. Reading his posts in isolation feels like, while the bunny is being the bunny, there is some evil lurking. Though as usual, zwet has given at least a dozen legitimate reasons to lynch him by page 3.

tajo is town.

Xtomx is likely town.

AH feels town. Very town as per post #192.

Xyl feels town. Later, his #252 is totally town.

BMW is town.

I see some subtle signs from ortolan. Post #177 in particular.

I love the troll.

Malyss' #209 is disturbingly noncommital.

image's #243 feels very townie.

1. Dripping Goofball TOWN
2. BrianMcQueso TOWN
5. image TOWN
6. roflcopter TOWN
8. MafiaSSK DAYMASON
10. antihero TOWN
11. Xtoxm TOWN
14. Stephoscope DAYMASON
15. populartajo TOWN
18. Zorblag TOWN

4. Xylthixlm POSSIBLY SCUM
7. Malyss POSSIBLY SCUM
9. Empking POSSIBLY SCUM
12. elvis_knits POSSIBLY SCUM
13. q21 POSSIBLY SCUM
16. wolfcrier POSSIBLY SCUM
17. ortolan POSSIBLY SCUM


SPECIAL NOTES:
Post 234 Xyl declines to hammer zwet in favor of poptartajo "Feels better than a zwet lynch right now."

Post 230 After zwet claims "cookies and cream" townie, Q21, in the next post, writes: 'Did you miss the point about the people who may have been trying to use the lag while we waited for a zwet claim to get a head start on lurking? Zwet has claimed now though. I think I believe him, but I'll hammer him in a day or so if no one else does. " It's nearly impossible to write #190 as scum. Nearly.

Why I don't think BMQ is scum:

THIS POST

No scum in his right mind would post a HARD defense of zwet, the way BMQ did. Ever. That would be insane.

There is no reason for BMQ to tie his wagon to zwet's falling star. He would lose all credibility, zwet is not really salvageable even with solid arguments, and as a scum buddy, he's probably quite unnerving, and best if eliminated early.

More to the point, a good and clever scum would bus zwet, and bus him hard. Or stay in the sidelines.

Banking on the resulting town cred, the bus driver could probably get players to mislynch a good half dozen townies before being stopped in his tracks.

roflcopter has done the complete opposite of what the wisdom of myself, who has been scum with unequal success in countless games, would dictate. Personally, rather than looking through players that defended zwet, I'd look for players that bus'ed, and players that didn't know how to handle the situation.

BMQ was the most direct zwet defender. That's why I really don't think he's scum.

Of the two posts that DGB gives any reasoning, only the one on BMQ is really a good explanation. The first post where she gives reads on most people, does point to some individual posts, but is vague.

Conclusion: It seems reasonable for me to say:

And as far as your innocents go, you have provided no reasoning for why they are innocent. You're just buddying if you can't explain why you think certain people are innocent.

Overall, I am right. It might not be 100%, but you can't say I was "lying." That would be ridiculous when you look at all the unsupported town reads she gave.

[elvis_knits]

Holy crap. This is the last time Mastin posted: Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:53 pm

If he doesn't post in the next 8 minutes, we have to lynch him today. Good news is he did seem pretty scummy with his last round of pretend contribution.

[elvis_knits]

unvote vote mastin

I meant to do a total lurker list, but got called away from compter and lost my work. Nobody else is close to the 72 hour mark. In fact, I think everyone else has posted yesterday or today.

[elvis_knits]

He's watching this forum right now

[elvis_knits]

Dang it. <---Cap that, bold, italicize, underline, and replace n with m and g with the n.

I was busy. I looked at lunch, and was reading the comments since then.
I didn't catch up, and ran out of time before I could post.
But I thought, "Meh, I posted yesterday. It's fine. I'll get home soon enough to write a post."

One problem:
I DIDN'T post yesterday. I thought I had, but I forgot to hit submit, and lost everything.

Oops

.
Fortunately, I'm not scum.

Now that I'm caught up with what was said since my last post (took some serious browsing), I see that I was obviously mistaken. My bad, and you're not going to like me for it. L-2, nasty business. L-2, claim territory in a larger game. L-2...

Very bad situation. :/
Simply put, I messed up.

Antihero did a good job of not breadcrumbing like most new players would about my role.

I am the doctor

. Antihero targeted Tajo every night.

If you're a doc, then that sucks. We have to lynch you no matter what now.

But, I would like to point out that you replaced AH on D2, which means the night choice should have been yours last night, but you said AH targetted tajo both nights. Not possible since you were the player at the time of N2.

[elvis_knits]

Antihero did a good job of not breadcrumbing like most new players would about my role.

I am the doctor

. Antihero targeted Tajo every night.

I'm not a particularly experienced player or anything, but I don't understand this at all. Are you saying you protected Tajo? Are you saying Antihero is scum? How would Antihero know anything to breadcrumb?

Mastin replaced AH

[elvis_knits]

Mastin, nobody who lurks for 72 hours should be allowed to live. Period. I don't care what the excuse/reasoning is.

There is a large chance you are scum. Even if you are not, we cannot set a precedence where people are allowed to lurk and live. That just increases the chance that scum will get extra kills. It is bad for town. We cannot allow anyone to do it.

Also, your contribution prior to lurking was horrible. I do not understand the recap posts you made where you seemed to analyze people by counting how many posts people made and the average length. That tells me nothing.

And now that you've lurked over 72 hours you are postig up a storm, showing a lot of strategy and scheming for someone that I thought hadn't even caught up with the game/understood what was going on. This tells me that you have a firm grasp of the game. If you had a grasp of the game all along, why weren't you posting? Why weren't you helping?

Seriously, you need to die today. Also, you need to die first. Because if you're scum (which I htink you are) we need to look at your posts for clues to your buddies.

[elvis_knits]

Sweet, maybe he'll hamer.

[elvis_knits]

Suggestion: Mastin needs to die today. Yes. But let's lynch him second. Then we see more interaction from him, and learn more when he flips one way or the other.

This was awesome.

vote image

But I also would like to point out that tajo and Xyl acted quite odd with Mastin.

[elvis_knits]

Suspicious post numero uno:

L-3 with very high tendence of L-1.

Mastin, claim or die.

Also, if youd like to survive a little more, share a scumlist with us.

The suggestion that we might let Mastin survive for any amount of time is highly suspicious.

[elvis_knits]

Next suspicious post:

Arg, doc claim.

Why would Antihero targetted me night one?

Oh no, a doc claim!

[elvis_knits]

Trying to help mastin:

I would need a remarkably high confidence in your townieness for that to be a better plan than lynching you right now.

I'm giving you a chance to prove at least part of your story is true here, and you're flubbing it.

To be fair, Xyl also said stuff like this:

Not "claim or die". Just "die".

But I don't know how he went from "no claim or die, just die!" to "let's see if I can help you prove you're town."

Decidedly mixed messages.

[elvis_knits]

OMG let's not forget the malyss lynch that went through to avoid AH getting to 72 hours!

Let's not forget how tajo voted malyss almost spur of the moment.

We should look at how that lynch went down again, because that lynch saved AH from getting lynched D1. This may have critical info!

[elvis_knits]

8

Malyss

(

Xtoxm

, Xylthixlm,

DrippingGoofball

, image, q21/kinetic, BrianMcQueso/nuwen, Empking, populartajo)
3

antihero

(

Zorblag

, ortolan,

Malyss

)
2

DrippingGoofball

(Stephoscope, roflcopter)

4 Unvote (

antihero

, elvis_knits, MafiaSSK,

wolfcrier

)

17 alive; 9 to lynch.

9

Malyss

(

Xtoxm

, Xylthixlm,

DrippingGoofball

, image, q21/kinetic, BrianMcQueso/nuwen, Empking, populartajo, roflcopter)
3

Antihero

(

Zorblag

, ortolan,

Malyss

)
1

DrippingGoofball

(Stephoscope)

3 Unvote (

antihero

, MafiaSSK,

wolfcrier

)

17 alive; 9 to lynch.

MALYSS HAS BEEN LYNCHED. SHE WAS A VANILLIA TOWNIE.

Note: I was left off the last vote count, but I was in the not voting area.
ALSO: I put q21 down as q21/kinetic, and BMQ as BMQ/nuwen so that we can remember who replaced who... I often have to refer back and that is annoying.

Looking at the Malyss lynch, it seems likely that Ortolan is town. He could have easily helped lynch Malyss, or atleast not gone against the townie lynch to be voting a scum. I find it unlikely that Ortolan is scum based on him voting AH at the time of Malyss lynch.