War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[DrippingGoofball]

tajo town + copter town = 50_%
tajo town + copter scum = 75_%
tajo scum + copter town = 0%
tajo scum + copter scum = 0%

It doesn't add up to 100. It has to.

[DrippingGoofball]

pretty strange why he thinks Im OBV scum when he has offered NO OPINIONS on anyone else, huh?

Not after your last few plans were a scum auto-win.

[DrippingGoofball]

Alright.

roflcopter gives a 50:50 chance of tajo being scum, and tajo gives copter a 65% change of being scum.

Given that copter has been calling tajo scum all game, and that tajo has recently proposed scum-win plans, is it possible that copter knows tajo is town, and is trying to wash his hands off the lynch??? The 50:50 number is inconsistent with copter's game-long stance on tajo.

Tajo, on the other hand, has given numbers that match with his words, all through the game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Considering the way Tajo hurt Rofl, I doubt they are scum together.

Close to impossible.

[DrippingGoofball]

What happens is tajo is town, and copter is scum?

Are we still better off killing tajo first?

[DrippingGoofball]

What happens is tajo is town, and copter is scum?

Are we still better off killing tajo first?

you really think so?

Yeah, I do really think so, I'm asking. I'm as bad at calculations and planning as you are, if not

WORSE.

[DrippingGoofball]

thx very much, lady.
its possible that rolf has realized that im obv town.
he changes his mind too quickly for my taste

Except that the Q21 plan has him as a survivor. Going with my gut, I'd kill him first.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why, do you think rofl is more likely scum then tajo at this point?

rofl has been going after townies all game, foaming at the mouth, doing it himself with his double hurt, not waiting for the 3 votes, etc. He played sloppy, like scum often does. His entire play felt like Kamikaze play, as if he wanted to do as he pleased, excepting a early death. His being alive is probably a credit to his buddies.

Tajo's plans were so totally obviously scum auto-wins (and he keeps coming back to the same ideas even if discredited) that it seems improbable that scum would be so blatant. Though you never know. "Unlikely" is not "impossible." He may just be bad at thinking things through.

copter has been after tajo all game. copter has been after townies all game. Given copter's record, I'd hedge my bet that copter is the scum one, and tajo is the town one.

[DrippingGoofball]

Its possible that rolf is still agressive silly town.

His failure rate is 100%. I'm not sure that falls under 'silly' anymore.

[DrippingGoofball]

let q21 decide, scumbag.
dont get too impatient and stop trying to complot against q21 plan

lol...you've been trying to convince us for the past 2 pages that the q21 plan would cost the town the game because "no one was arguing against it", tajo. And now you're accusing me of "tryign to plot against the plan"?

Flailing scum Tajo thought he had a chance of getting rofl on his side, is my best guess.

Gah! Good point...

Now I'm pulling my hair out.

[DrippingGoofball]

let q21 decide, scumbag.
dont get too impatient and stop trying to complot against q21 plan

lol...you've been trying to convince us for the past 2 pages that the q21 plan would cost the town the game because "no one was arguing against it", tajo. And now you're accusing me of "tryign to plot against the plan"?

Flailing scum Tajo thought he had a chance of getting rofl on his side, is my best guess.

Gah! Good point...

Now I'm pulling my hair out.

no, dgb, he is manipulating you.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but what he said is true.

[DrippingGoofball]

what is true?

THIS:

"lol...you've been trying to convince us for the past 2 pages that the q21 plan would cost the town the game because "no one was arguing against it", tajo. And now you're accusing me of "tryign to plot against the plan"? "

[DrippingGoofball]

Am I wrong when I say that its weird that all people are supporting this plan when there 3-4 scum alive?

Agreed.

My guess here is that scum have a way to prevent the plan from happening. They only need time and more townies killed before doing that.

Maybe. We don't know.

Its strange that when I called this (about all people supporting the plan) yosarian complots agains the plan and is trying to implicate nuwen and rolf when we shouldnt be talking about this.
My result doesnt mean anything but Yos has to be scum.

Illogical.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm going to stop arguing for now.

I have this urge to stay cool and think things through. I'll try to come up with something tonight or tomorrow.

[DrippingGoofball]

We HAVE to follow the plan. I never said dont follow the plan...

But the plan has you being next in line for elimination. Are you fighting it? I'm not being facetious, I really don't quite understand what you're trying to accomplish.

...and then they are trying to kill me which at the same time Im obv town.

But that's the plan... if it was up to me, copter would go before you... and now out of the blue you think that copter, who has been uber-scummy all game, is more scummy than Yos who has just replaced. And yet, if we follow the plan, Yosarian will die in due time... quite possibly before sunday, before the scum gets new rage points. So I'm not sure what you want, and what difference it makes anyway, since the end point is the same. The only difference might be if we stall and the scum get more rage point. No???

[DrippingGoofball]

We need you, me and Fire at L-1.

That's what, almost 20 hurts? Most of us are spent for today.

The plan called for players to be eliminated from scummiest to least scummy, not for putting a bunch of players at L-1. It's the same, only slower, and with one point fewer per player!

[DrippingGoofball]

yes but if im dead, fire and yos wont hurt each other, they'll hurt you and q21.
if im alive, youll save hit points for me and ill use my hurts to bring these players (or at least one of them) closer to death, meaning that when Ill be dead it will be easier for you to control them.

I think I see what you're taking about, at last.

So, what you're saying is that instead of killing off players right now, we leave you alive, and bring Firestarter and Yosarian to low HPs. Although, if they're scum, they're going to lie, and say that they have low HP when they might have higher HP.

anyways, why i am considered the most scummy of the three alive?

Not by me. I consider copter the scummiest player alive, but I'm not getting any traction. I don't understand why you changed your mind about him in the past couple of pages. Quite a turnaround.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, please read point 1 in post 4001.
If what we are assuming is right, Yos and Fire have to be scum too. Its probable once is the Fallen Arel. The other is prob a Cherub. Thats why massclaiming when all people left are in their majority scum was a good plan.

Yes, I got that.

[DrippingGoofball]

pop's actions make sense as both scum and town. Scum flailing to keep himself alive or town who genuinely believes killing him will screw up the game. I think I'm going to suggest that myself and Yos continue to kill pop and everyone else (bar FS who should heal me as he's said he would do) should move on to Yosarian.

Don't you get ZPs if we hit scum? I think we should finish off tajo, then if you get ZPs from that, you'll have them earlier. Mostly, we'll know tajo's alignment earlier.

[DrippingGoofball]

Going through the plan's motions.

hurt:populartajo

[DrippingGoofball]

Guys, hopefully, Pop is scum.

If not, Im very confident that Yos & roflcopter are.

Q21, Im happy to keep healing you, I'd prefer to hurt Yos.

BTW, just so you know, this plan is going to get Town killed if Pop is NOT scum.
If he is town, he is the only player against this plan.
And if this plan is gonna win it for Town, why is there only 1 player against it?????
Think about it.....

Everyone else is going along with it, so if Pop is town, I'd seriuosly suggest looking at one of his main attackers over the last few pages.

The scum won't recharge another 6 rage points until Sunday anyway, if my assumptions are correct.

Wait for me Firestarter, I thought of something, but I'd rather talk only after tajo is dead, because it hinges on tajo's alignment.

I'll be back in 3 hours from now. Please hold off any action.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hurt: Q21

blade

.

How about now? Are you still kicking?

[DrippingGoofball]

hurt: Q21

with a tiny little feather.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hurt:Q21

*checking Q21 for a pulse*

[DrippingGoofball]

I think Q21 just reached room temperature.

[DrippingGoofball]

*rummages through Q21's wallet*
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Alright... harp playing permit... medicloud card... wooden nickels... spare feathers... MasterZeal card... hymn sheets... and... OMG! Rage points! With Firestarter's name on them!

[DrippingGoofball]

My thoughts on the game.

(1) The Shinnen death, occurring on Day 1, was immensely crippling and by itself was almost an auto-loss for the scum. It reduced the RP accumulation by 25% for the entire game. The maximum number of RP we could accumulate went from 12 to 8, which severely limited our choice of players to kill. We could only kill very damaged players.

(2) The distribution of angel types meant that it was impossible for Nuwen to hide for very long. I could hide, but when a Metatron was revealed, it did mean that there could be a scum Ophan, and I couldn't hide anymore. In fact, a bit past mid-game, I became despondent and convinced that this was un-winnable for the scum, unless we managed something like 14 mislynches in a row.

(3) Don't berate yourselves, the town actually played a really solid game and I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. So many times, you were on to us. In fact, at one point, tajo looked at a wagon, and declared that there had to be scum on it, and lo and behold, my name was there. That's when we decided to distract the town by sending a smattering of RPs on several players, including ourselves.

(4) The 6 RP maximum was a fiction invented to explain why the scum left me alive. We went through a lot of trouble coordinating the times of our rage points to make sure this myth wasn't busted by sloppy timing. Screwing that up meant my death, and a loss.

(5) I'm the only one that was on to Q21 being a SK, in thread, and in QT. A player that could accumulate "zeal points" and have tons of HP? Had I been town, I would have belabored the issue, but since I knew we could kill him, and everyone believed him when he declared me to be town, I was happy to say no more of my SK theory. It also helped immensely that the order of player lynches had us dead last. I can't believe the remaining townies weren't suspicious of him after his plan lead to still more mislynches. It was an excellent gambit by Q21, and I commend him for it.

(6) What crippled the town was the speed of the lynches (which gave us RPs and 48 hours daytalk, daytalk being the smart scum's most powerful weapon), and the taboo about heals. I was biting my nails that we'd get caught administering the exact number of RPs required to hasten a player's death, only for that player to be confirmed town if a player healed in the intervening time. Slow lynches and heals were bad for the scum, and we really dreaded them both.

(7) Nuwen was great with the numbers game, and a ruthless player at that. Giuseppe played the gentle townie for a long time, and Yosarian, who replaced him, was very focused on the task, which was more mislynches or we auto-lose.

[DrippingGoofball]

Whoever said it before, I agree, I think this game was lost because of aggressive players on both town and scum sides. If this igame had been played at a normal pace I think more (including me) could have got more involved. Instead it was in turbo mode the whole friggin time.

You're absolutely correct! However, as soon as you Kuato'd ABR, you became a free lunch, i.e., a mislynch that I would have wholeheartedly supported as a townie.

[DrippingGoofball]

After Question 8, I was frustrated and logged out. When I came back, I was dead.

Flay sounds like a practiced politician in those answers, haha.

[DrippingGoofball]

There was nothing else I could have done.

I would have screamed for your lynch as town. Ostentatiously piggybacking another player = not a good idea. You should have faked it, you would have been harder to lynch. Next time!

[DrippingGoofball]

1). "I really respect ABR's opinion and I am gonna follow his lead if I agree with what he is doing"...

NOT

2). Literally, "I am going to hurt/heal as ABR does without question."

I think it would be a little to obvious for scum to claim their team like that.

You don't know how ABR operates behind the scenes like I do! And it was like (2), not like (1) - tough a case could be made for it. I viewed it as a "worse-than-lurker" lynch. You should never let a player like that live, as town, because that ABR could have been scum, and that's way too dangerous.

[DrippingGoofball]

Nuwen was obvscum because of the opportunistic timing of her claim and her killing of Walt. I mean why didn't anyone build a case on her lol

She was under mega-suspicion over this all game, and also, she was victim to the theory that there had to be scum Seraph between copter and herself. Somehow, it never really stuck, and I think it's because Nuwen paced herself, and made a lot of solid "town" posts after that, while copter was mowing the town down.

[DrippingGoofball]

She gave off so many red flags to me, like "oh scum can daytalk? really?", when she's the first to point that out as town.

I have said that as town, too, and recently. Ongoing game etc.

[DrippingGoofball]

Uhhh dgb. In that one game where I threatened to bus you, you threatened to bus me first and kept overreacting to me. It worked out well in the end, but it could have gone either way. And I made the right call to not do the NK since I

was

being tracked, after all.

After you claimed miller, we WANTED you to get caught. Of course we put you up to the kill. The faster you were out, the better. We couldn't wait to be rid of you. We were able to have a pleasant, friendly, collegial game after that, and thank you for quitting, it was the right thing to do.

[DrippingGoofball]

I know what you

wanted

. But if I bussed you it would have been the same thing, just reversed, and we both still would have ended up winning. That town was bad, like worse than this town bad.

I see the light. I suck, and you're mafia-god. Everyone else agrees. I bow to your superiority. You have crushed me. Congratulations, move along now, have a nice life.

[DrippingGoofball]

Basically, the problem here was, whenever we suspected a group of players, the town member of that group got hurt first, and then their flip took the pressure off the scum member.

Using the heal mechanic more liberally would have helped confirmed some players as town, as some of our kill attempts were bound to be discovered. A slower pace, making deeper cases, healing pro-town players would have made this game a prolonged, living nightmare for us.

[DrippingGoofball]

See? You have a huge ego dgb.

Despite what everyone else is saying, I think roflcopter played a strong game, and just got very unlucky.

You're right, you win this once too, I concede and wave the white flag. Your ego is really very tiny, and mine is huge! A standing ovation to your microscopic ego.

Don't berate yourselves, the town actually played a really solid game and I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. So many times, you were on to us. In fact, at one point, tajo looked at a wagon, and declared that there had to be scum on it, and lo and behold, my name was there. That's when we decided to distract the town by sending a smattering of RPs on several players, including ourselves. "

We topped everyone's scumlist so often, I really think the town went too fast, and didn't use enough heals.

[DrippingGoofball]

Except we couldn't agree on who was pro-town.

It all went too fast. Healers/dissenters were silenced because of the speedlynch standing order, and everyone was encouraged to pile on the current hurt leader, fast, fast, fast, for the flimsiest reason. Anyone trying to slow things down became suspicious.

[DrippingGoofball]

You're just pissed off because all my other scum partners think I'm a great team player. And they don't see the light like you.

Look in my post on this very page, I wrote, "I see the light!" So I see the light. You can relax, now.

[DrippingGoofball]

Healing suspects would just have slowed things down, though. And when we did heal someone because they were injured, and no-one suspected them, it was firestarter...

Also, two of the three scum basically got a free pass- Giuseppe for being V/LA whilst a load of hurting was going down, and firestarter for replacing in.

Firestarter was town.

But again, you could have caught us trying to kill off a townie, if you healed. You'd have confirmed townies. And given how maximum number of RPs, if these confirmed townies were brought back beyond a certain threashold, they would have been impossible for us to kill, ever.

[DrippingGoofball]

We didn't know about the rage cap.

I sorta alluded to this with our maximum dose of 6 RPs. This was designed to explain my continued survival, but no one really took it for granted, which was wise from the town.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yes, Q21's roleclaim rocked, including the "Zeal Point" business.

We did kill copter before killing off Q21; you must mean Firestarter.

Q21 did use a whole bunch of points on a townie, fortunately for us, because when he did use these points, it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

He did have a very fair chance of winning, and he did very well.

[DrippingGoofball]

...this pretty much ate my life for the last three weeks...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[DrippingGoofball]

Actually, that's another point, DB- with q21 uncapped, it looked as if scum were able to use however many HP.

We still used our RPs in increments of 6. Then he got two heals, gah!!!! Two batches of 6 points, and he still needed 8 more to die, we needed to kill more townies to get all those rage points to finish him off... even that was not enough, we had to do it in-thread, after our cover was blown. He was like that mega-villain at the end of the video game.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well done guys, by the way. Our scum team contained a lot of conflicting playing personalities, but we meshed well.

You were one heck of a gutsy gal; absolutely merciless. I loved it, and I loved to see how much you got away with!

And Yosarian was pretty brave, too, he didn't let the wind get into his eyes.

[DrippingGoofball]

I couldn't believe Kinetic was lynched! I wonder what the motives were.

[DrippingGoofball]

Because most of my arguments (especially seeing the set up now) were right on the money?

But who drove your wagon, scum or town? I don't recall. I'm sure you do!

[DrippingGoofball]

...and in any case, leaving DGB alive in the endgame when nobody mattered but the Seraphs and "Michael" was odd.

Q21 was very quick and very firm in 'confirming' me. It was clear that he was hesitating to use his points while I was watching, and maybe that's why he dumped the whole load on a player hoping that his target would be scum, and confirm himself. As long as I didn't die and show up as scum, his SK keister was covered. Q21 may have a different version of the event, haha.

I'm amused that if q21's revised kill list had been followed, Yos2 would have died early and things could have been very different.

We couldn't win unless we had an uninterrupted string of mislynches. I would have fought tooth and nail for Yosarian and Nuwen to die last, with any argument I could come up with. Q21 would have had to back me up, because he made me a townie.

Nuwen was great with the numbers game, and she knew the exact moment it was safe to blow our own cover.

[DrippingGoofball]

I still don't know why the hell anyone hurt Xyl after DGB confirmed him, though. That was a total headscratcher. I'd have been for killing DGB to confirm xyl, but sadly, he was dead before i could get to a computer that evening. Then when he died, no-one wanted to hurt DGB anymore.

I chose to 'watch' Xyl because there were so many aggressive townies going against him with krap cases, that his death, or his confirmation, would make the largest possible number of players look bad, and/or become insecure and thus less aggressive.

[DrippingGoofball]

I thought Xyl was being scum confirmed. We (as scum) did this in one other game and it works perfectly when the end game is nearing since it reduces the number of fellow scum that could get hit at the end.

Xyl was settled aboard the Speedlynch Express, and his seatbelt was locked. If we were both scum, we would both died, sooner than later.

This was not the sort of game for scum to pseudo-confirm another, especially given the handicap of losing Shinnen on day 1. We literally couldn't afford a single scum lynch, let alone two.

[DrippingGoofball]

Plus, I thought getting q21 to nuke rofl would be worth extra style points.

I was trying to navigate the few remaining townies away from healing Q21... given enough heals, he really had a shot at winning.

[DrippingGoofball]

When q21 received 6 (and then 12) RP in quick succession, there should have been a pause of 'the plan' and a mass healing. Unless every Loyal Angel had actually given up, and didn't care if he was actually Michael or not.

I wasn't town in this game, but I think the townies were so relieved to have a muscular champion that they refused to consider the possibility of a SK.

[DrippingGoofball]

Reading back through my posts, that bit where I was insisting that Xyl, DGB, and Giuseppe were my top suspects is painful.

Actually, in fact, for most of the game i had Xyl, DGB, and either Nuwen or Giuseppe. D'oh.

You, and a lot of other players were on to us all game.

[DrippingGoofball]

There were moments when we were

sure

that we'd be outted. Can we post the QT yet?

Sure, go ahead.

[DrippingGoofball]

Here's the QT:

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Z6YbnyhVJb3m7

[DrippingGoofball]

God. I was on to Nuwen, on to DGB, but fucking rofl was killing me so I HAD to try and stop him. Too damn bad it was too late and the town couldn't heal me in time to save me.

You had the most aggressive faction against you. Anyone that defended you, would have been next to be marked for death. No one could defend you.

Didn't I try to heal you at some point? I think it didn't work, and it was a genuine error on my part. I did it to discredit your attackers.

[DrippingGoofball]

My attackers were utter idiots, but your move was calm and calculated. I knew you were scum and I held my tongue because at that point in the game I wanted town to lose for letting the wild dogs run free and not taking them outside and killing them.

The full idea was to use a heal on you, then kill you with rage points, so that it would unlikely that as scum, I would heal you, only to cost me an extra rage point. I really intended to heal you, and because of my mistake, my own ploy was foiled.

[DrippingGoofball]

Either way, I know the way you play. That heal was WAY more calculated than anything you normally do as town. I'd have pinned you to the ground if I was still alive.

Next time I'm just going to hammer you, haha.

[DrippingGoofball]

You have no clue how close I was to Raging you to death ahead of ABR, though. That's the decision that lost me the game.

It seems like failing to kill me is a nearly universal regret from all players in this game, minus my scumpals!

[DrippingGoofball]

Who thinks Flay deserves a Scummie Award?

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB- any chance of a Food Fight sequel?

/pre-in

Yes, quite possibly after I return from SF, in May. Expect delicious Nutraloaf from the prison cafeteria. I hear it makes a great projectile.

[DrippingGoofball]

Yet you never brought up 'scum cannot kill someone from full +1 hp' EVER.

Plus, chances are, the way the game went, the person that would have brought this up would have been lynched on the spot.

That's correct; and the town would have pushed that lynch harder than the scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

I panicked the most when players were considering healing another. It was wasting our hurts, our rage points, it could have blacked us out in the QT (each death was only 48 hours of daytalk), and we could have gotten caught trying to kill a player, resulting in a confirmed townie... heals were disasters for us.

Except for the heals on me! Those were good.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ Kinetic

I'm really glad that you died early and no one listened to you.

[DrippingGoofball]

A Kinetic regime would have destroyed me, roflcopter and Fonz mid-game...and the end result would have been the same.

How does that follow?

[DrippingGoofball]

...it seemed more like we were playing Survivor than trying to kill scum...

That sums it up quite nicely, actually. For too many townies, it became an individual game of "Survivor." Well put.

[DrippingGoofball]

Please re-read. Fonz made the case. Roflcopter wrote "I SUPPORT FONZ". And then I landed the first hurt.

Big deal, after Shinnen there were, what, fifteen mislynches? Fighting for crums, are we.

[DrippingGoofball]

And if you thought I was townie afterword you should have helped heal me so that I couldn't have been rage killed.

Nooooooooooo

No heals, please. Heals are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB's play really makes me laugh in good heart this game.[...]

I never use profanity.

Please don't attribute this sort of foul language to me, ever. I don't appreciate being misquoted with vulgarity.

The language that you have used between quotes attributed to me crosses a line that is absolutely unacceptable to me. It crosses the line that separates humorous ribbing from mean-spirited debasement.

You seem to have a need to paint yourself as a beacon of awesome, and everyone else as bumbling fools that are just too tiny-brained to grasp your immense greatness. It must fulfill an important void for you. I hope it makes you feel better, and a lot better, because others are paying the price for your well-being having to withstand derision and humiliation from you.

DON'T EVER, EVER QUOTE ME AS USING PROFANITY AGAIN.

[DrippingGoofball]

P.S. What did you all think of the flavor text? One player yelled at me at one point for 'confirming' DGB as not being the player doing the Rage, but I figured enough players know I'm too professional to do something like that...

I missed that one!

I liked the flavor text, short and sweet and to the point.

Zwet was remarkably lucid. He doesn't deserve being singled out, I agree.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not going to talk about this anymore. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, just play a few games with zwet, and then we'll talk.

I've played several. The kid is fine. He did a gambit in one game that netted us two scumbags.

[DrippingGoofball]

Really? When? Where?

Ongoing. You know which one. We caught two from exploiting the information from your lynch. TWO!

[DrippingGoofball]

fail

No, it's absolutely true. Tajo knows, too.

[DrippingGoofball]

I know. Now don't get yourself modkilled.

It's quite possible that I'm already dead, so no worries.