War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Xylthixlm]

Say it.

I watched Xyl (may or may not still be watching), whom I've been vocal in supporting, but suspected like mad, he's been a mega IIoA all game. So I hoped that he would feel confident that I wasn't watching him to make a move, and I was certain to catch him.

He is NOT on the last two cycles of scum hurts reported by Flay.

Cool. Heals plz kthxbai

Xyl why did you hurt Seraphim?

I don't like waiting when I'm fully recharged. He seemed to be leading the vote count.

You realize you likely need to die, right?

I normally wouldn't really care, but I have this horrible feeling town will lose if I die.

[Xylthixlm]

I really should say "if the next person to die is town".

From my iPhone

[Xylthixlm]

I really should say "if the next person to die is town".

From my iPhone

Then why the hell are you not playing to prove you are town?

Uh, I'm playing to help the town as best I can. The basic problem is that for some reason I'm having trouble getting good reads. So I was backing off and letting other people push things for a bit, in hope that I would pick up a lead there.

[Xylthixlm]

Its probable but I dont think DGB would have given a result like that knowing that Xyl has to die before endgame.

Why do I have to die before endgame?

[Xylthixlm]

Its probable but I dont think DGB would have given a result like that knowing that Xyl has to die before endgame.

Why do I have to die before endgame?

You are scummy?

*shrug*

I'm curious what you think I should be doing differently.

[Xylthixlm]

Check the first post. Every player should start with the same HP unless they are

1. replaced
2. topped off by another player

I think scum may have decided to not rage Xyl because they can make connections and list his potential "scumbuddies" while not actually killing him.

I think scum might have decided not to rage me because they don't have 6 rage built up.

[Xylthixlm]

i'm still killing xyl

You're killing the guy who's all-but-confirmed by an Ophan.

BRILLIANT PLAN.

[Xylthixlm]

It's pretty obvious they killed the Ophans first, and why.

[Xylthixlm]

unless the claimed ophan is also scum

BRILLIANT

So

Me being scum implies DGB is scum

Why kill me instead of DGB?

[Xylthixlm]

roflcopter has basically shot all the town credit he had

I'm really liking the Tenchi/roflcopter scumteam now

I am

not

liking the Seraphim lynch now.

unvote Seraphim

[Xylthixlm]

xyl, can you do some kind of pbpa on me, or are you just gonna say i've shot all town cred and join the throngs of people calling for my head. you took the time to do one on tenchi after all.

A wise man once said something like "Never ignore someone doing something scummy right now, no matter how protown they seemed before".

(I don't normally do PBPAs. I made an exception for Tenchi because he has so few posts.)

[Xylthixlm]

Tajo, Xyl, Rolf: What do you think on my notes above on Post 560?

Biased.

[Xylthixlm]

Again, would rather me to "start playing" later? Why are you questioning me standing up for what I think is right, right now?
I wasn't "angry" with Xyl. I just feel annoyed that nobody is supporting his lynch when he has done quite a number of suspicious things, especially subtle ones.

Your timing is too convenient. If you were town you would have been analyzing the deaths yourself, not grilling me over whether I was analyzing them.

[Xylthixlm]

That quick series of deaths was obviously the result of a scum plan.

I don't think the scum would plan to kill a bunch of townies, and then have no idea what they'd do afterwards. They'd want to know they had a good endgame before starting the massacre.

Who's the easiest target in this game? Me. I do look scummy, especially since I can't point to any previous town games where I've acted like this. (I'll have one after this game finishes...)

The timing of the scum kill burst, followed immediately by a vicious (and weak) attack on me, is not coincidental. Scum are going for the win.

[Xylthixlm]

The timing of the scum kill burst, followed immediately by a vicious (and weak) attack on me, is not coincidental. Scum are going for the win.

the same argument goes for a scum gambit by dgb to false clear herself and you. if we're only a kill or two away from scum winning, now is the time to stop me from finishing you

So you're completely dismissing out of hand the possibility that Tenchi is scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Alive

# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: WeyounsLastClone, q21 (2) Healed by: Nuwen,

Kinetic

(1)

# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla,

????? x1

,

????? x1

(3) Healed by: WeyounsLastClone/Cybelle, Seraphim (2)

# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)

# Firestarter/Drench (-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, The Fonz (4) Healed by: populartajo (1)

# Nuwen - Hurt by:

????? x1

(1) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)
# populartajo - Hurt by:

????? x2

(2) Healed by: Tenchi (1)
# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)

# roflcopter - Hurt by: Shinnen_no_Me

x2

, Hoopla (3) Healed by: DrippingGoofball, populartajo, Hoopla,

WaltWishbone

(3)

# Seraphim - Hurt by: roflcopter, WeyounsLastClone, Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage (4) Healed by: Shinnen_no_Me, populartajo (2)

# Tenchi - Hurt by: populartajo, Juls, Giuseppe (3) Healed by: (0)

# The Fonz - Hurt by:

????? x1

(1) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)

# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: Juls, zwetschenwasser, WaltWishbone

x2

, roflcopter

x2

, roflcopter

x2

, Tenchi (9) Healed by: Juls,

Drench

, WeyounsLastClone, Giuseppe (3)

Dead

# Shinnen_no_Me

- Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz,

Kinetic

,

DrippingGoofball

, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, q21,

Juls

, Xylthixlm, Nuwen

x2

, The Fonz, roflcopter

x2

(13) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

# Hoopla

- Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, roflcopter

x2

,

WaltWishbone

, Albert B. Rampage,

WeyounsLastClone

,

Juls

, Seraphim,

Juls

,

WaltWishbone

(9) Healed by: (0)

# WaltWishbone

- Hurt by: DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm, Nuwen, Xylthixlm,

WeyounsLastClone

, Nuwen

x2

,

zwetschenwasser

, q21, Seraphim,

vIQleS

, Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

, Nuwen

x2

(14) Healed by:

vIQleS

,

Kinetic

(2)

# Juls

- Hurt by: Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

,

vIQleS

, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe,

Seraphim

, DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

, Giuseppe,

Kinetic

(10) Healed by:

zwetschenwasser

(1)

# Kinetic

- Hurt by: roflcopter, roflcopter

x2

,

Juls

, roflcopter

x2

, Albert B. Rampage,

????? x3

(10) Healed by:

Hoopla

,

DrippingGoofball

,

DrippingGoofball

(1)

# WeyounsLastClone/Cybele

(-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm, Seraphim, Albert B. Rampage, Firestarter, populartajo, Xylthixlm, Seraphim, Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz,

Firestarter

(9) Healed by: q21 (1)

# vIQleS

- Hurt by: Kinetic, populartajo,

????? x6

(8) Healed by:

WaltWishbone

(1)

# zwetschenwasser

- Hurt by: q21, Seraphim, q21, q21,

????? x3

(7) Healed by: (0)

Secret damage as of post 2911:
3 points of secret damage were used to kill Kinetic.
6 points of secret damage were used to kill vIQleS.
3 points of secret damage were used to kill zwetschenwasser.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to Nuwen.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to DrippingGoofball.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to The Fonz.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to populartajo.


Note: Damage counts are based on public information and reasonable assumptions. It's always possible that there are two secret effects cancelling each other out.

[Xylthixlm]

That's another 4 points of secret damage. Something weird is going on.

[Xylthixlm]

I looked for patterns in who got hurt, but I can't find any.

[Xylthixlm]

I am nursing the paranoid thought that scum are trying to get us to use healing.

[Xylthixlm]

If scum get 1 rage point every time a townie heals another townie (don't ask me how this would work...), it would just about match the amount of rage which has been spent.

Argh, I'm WIFOMing myself.

[Xylthixlm]

Secret damage as of post 2911:
3 points of secret damage were used to kill Kinetic.
6 points of secret damage were used to kill vIQleS.
3 points of secret damage were used to kill zwetschenwasser.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to Nuwen.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to DrippingGoofball.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to The Fonz.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to populartajo.


Note: Damage counts are based on public information and reasonable assumptions. It's always possible that there are two secret effects cancelling each other out.

^ Uh, there it is?

[Xylthixlm]

I am nursing the paranoid thought that scum are trying to get us to use healing.

Count the amount of rage points the scum have compared to the amount that we have healed people.

Total healing: 23
Total rage: 18

... but there's a huge problem. The scum would have no reason to hurt and get us to heal for rage; they'd just be able to use their rage points on the target they want in the first place.

Back to the drawing board.

[Xylthixlm]

I agree with tajo's plan.

[Xylthixlm]

ROLF, DONT HURT SERAPHIM TONIGHT. HURT NUWEN. WE HAVE TO KNOW WHO OF YOU IS SCUM.
DO THIS ONLY AND ONLY IF YOU ARE TOWN.

Neat. I didn't know we could tell players to act in one way if they're town, and another if they're scum.

Could all scum just start hurting each other right now?

Much obliged,
Nuwen

We can also post "Attention scum: Please stop rage-killing" but they don't have to do so.

[Xylthixlm]

Maybe people don't think you're defense is suitable?

Or, better yet, who do you think is scum? Or, even better, what do you think of all the players in the game still alive? Who is scum and who is town?

I will repeat it for the umpteenth time:

TOWN: ROLF, TAJO, FONZ
SCUM: XYL, DGB, SERAPHIM

(Things are changing in this list, but I have to recompose myself)

All players, please. And list reasons. I'm guessing you don't believe that DGB cleared Xyl?

That is one of the factors I am reconsidering. But I'm willing to risk lynching Xyl over DGB if it was between the two them.

Fail. It's not "between DGB and Xyl", it's "DGB clears Xyl".

[Xylthixlm]

That is one of the factors I am reconsidering. But I'm willing to risk lynching Xyl over DGB if it was between the two them.

Fail. It's not "between DGB and Xyl", it's "DGB clears Xyl".

The issue of that is the fact that I'm not dismissing that there could be scum Ophan, given that Townies have roles too.

I won't dispute you for believing DGB.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding this?

It's not that DGB can't be scum, it's that

I can't be scum unless DGB is also scum

.

[Xylthixlm]

It's not that DGB can't be scum, it's that

I can't be scum unless DGB is also scum

.

But then if both of you are town we lose a power player, DGB.

What the heck are you talking about?

[Xylthixlm]

OK Tenchi. Let's take this reeealllll slow and simple.

DGB claims Ophan, that she was watching me during all those rage kills, and that I did not use rage.

That leaves THREE possible situations:
DGB is town and I am town.
DGB is scum and I am town.
DGB is scum and I am scum.

It eliminates ONE situation:
DGB is town and I am scum.

Now, given those possibilities, why would you possibly want to kill me before DGB?

[Xylthixlm]

after we kill seraphim and he comes up scum, we kill tajo

No. Tenchi first. Then you.

[Xylthixlm]

The plan goes like this:

Heal everyone who is on tajo's TOWN list up to full hp.

Start killing people on tajo's NOT TOWN list, starting with the scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Oh man. Send this guy back to mafia 101. In a casket.

[Xylthixlm]

All townies should take a bit of time to read the game.

Tenchi and roflcopter have just totally blown their cover as scum. They must think that they're just one town death away from winning.

[Xylthixlm]

wagon built on him too fast. he's being made a scapegoat by all the scumbags. xyl never lurkerhunted him when he was actually lurking.

Wait what, I'm back to scum now?

roflcopter, give us a consistent scumlist. So far you've just been calling whoever you want scum to bolster bullshit cases on other people. You've got enough people you've accused of being scum pairs, give us a set that fits together.

[Xylthixlm]

All townies should take a bit of time to read the game.

Tenchi and roflcopter have just totally blown their cover as scum. They must think that they're just one town death away from winning.

says the guy who REFUSES TO BACKREAD

I'm just so awesome that I can even do a PBPA without backreading! [/sarcasm]

[Xylthixlm]

wagon built on him too fast. he's being made a scapegoat by all the scumbags. xyl never lurkerhunted him when he was actually lurking.

would they be too obvious?
thats why i said that we need his flip. if tenchi comes up town, the scum would be obvious.
but i dont think he will. this player is not precisely the most protown in the game, ya know?

no, stop that. see, this is why you are obvscum. you don't kill someone because you "need their flip." you don't kill someone because they're "not the most protown." you kill them because they are SCUM. and you certainly don't do a test lynch on somone when the scum could be one or two mislynches away from WINNING THE FUCKING GAME.

scum make bad excuses to mislynch people. you are making bad excuses to mislynch tenchi. you are scum.

The irony here is that Tenchi is advocating a test lynch on me despite my being cleared by DGB.

Uh, helloo-oo?

[Xylthixlm]

after this game is over and dgb and tajo are both scum, i am policy lynching anyone who ever calls for a scumlist

After this game is over and you and Tench are both scum, I am policy lynching anyone who ever refuses to provide a scumlist.

[Xylthixlm]

I support a Seraphim lynch but only AFTER we kill Tenchi and/or roflcopter.

Fair?

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl, please answer my post.

Uh, which post? There's too much stuff going by right now.

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl, please answer my post.

Uh, which post? There's too much stuff going by right now.

The one where you are not cleared because DGB watched you in the massive rage attack. You could have used rage in the last small attack.

If there are 3 scum who had 6 rage each, I suppose it's possible.

I guess we'll wait for DGB to say when her watch ended.

[Xylthixlm]

Heal DrippingGoofball

[Xylthixlm]

Heal DrippingGoofball

You are stalling Sraphim's result. Why?

I'd like it to be as hard as possible for the scum to ragekill our last Ophan.

[Xylthixlm]

An Ophan will help keep the scum from dropping more rage.

[Xylthixlm]

Actually, it would be cool if everyone on your town list had at least 7 HP. I don't want more rage deaths.

[Xylthixlm]

Actually, it would be cool if everyone on your town list had at least 7 HP. I don't want more rage deaths.

Will you still support that if I told you that you are not in the town list anymore?

As long as your town list doesn't include Tenchi or roflcopter.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm trying to get people out of rage range. Between DGB and Firestarter, DGB was the obvious better choice.

[Xylthixlm]

Ok. I did the math, here's the results.

Townies getting in heal/hurt wars with other townies:

bad

. (Don't need math for this one!)

Townies getting in heal/hurt wars with the scum, if town has the damage advantage:

good

.

Townies getting in heal/hurt wars with the scum, if scum has the damage advantage:

bad

.

I know that healing someone hurt by the scum is a heal/hurt war with the scum. I am hoping that town still has the damage advantage (as in, town can do more total damage per week than scum). In that case, healing is mathematically advantageous for the town.

[Xylthixlm]

Actually, it would be cool if everyone on your town list had at least 7 HP. I don't want more rage deaths.

Will you still support that if I told you that you are not in the town list anymore?

As long as your town list doesn't include Tenchi or roflcopter.

Do you think Seraphim is town?

I'm not sure, but he's more likely to be town than Tenchi or roflcopter.

[Xylthixlm]

Here's the basics of the math:

Let's say (numbers out of thin air) that town does 30 damage per week, while scum does 15 damage + 10 rage damage per week.

If town never heals, then town will deal 30 damage per 25 damage the scum do, for a ratio of 6:5.

If the town heals all the rage damage, then town will deal 20 damage per 15 damage the scum do, for a ratio of 4:3.

This means that the town will do better in the damage race.

[Xylthixlm]

* This means that the town will do better in the damage race if they heal rage damage instead of hurting scum.

[Xylthixlm]

The only needed assumption is that town do more damage than scum. If that's false we're already screwed.

[Xylthixlm]

I appreciate your paranoia but it's MATH. Simple math. I can't exactly pull a fast one on you.

[Xylthixlm]

I'll work it out with high school algebra, just to show how much of a math nerd I am.

t = damage done by town per unit time
s = damage done by scum per unit time
h = number of actions town spends healing scum damage instead of hurting scum

Assumptions: t > s > h > 0

s < t [by assumption]
h * s < h * t [multiply by h, valid because h > 0]
-h * s > -h * t [negate]
t * s - h * s > t * s - h * t [add t * s]
(t - h) * s > t * (s - h) [factor both sides]
(t - h) > t * (s - h) / s [divide by s, valid because s > 0]
(t - h) / (s - h) > t / s [divide by (s-h), valid because s > h]
Q.E.D.

In words: The ratio of damage town deals with healing to the damage scum deals with healing, is greater than the ratio of damage town deals without healing to the damage scum deals without healing, assuming that town deals more damage than scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Thank you Captain Obvious.

[Xylthixlm]

Yes, I'm assuming that the rates of damage are roughly constant over time.

For your second point, a stalemate is obviously bad (you can't heal damage that killed someone)... but secret damage is almost certainly from the scum, so healing it is good.

[Xylthixlm]

No, there's no way to deadlock. Eventually the scum get enough rage points that they can just kill someone from full health, and boom! You can't heal the dead. Repeat until all townies are gone.

However, the fact that healing

all

damage is bad doesn't mean we can't heal

any

damage. Healing damage that we know was done by rage is good for the town.

[Xylthixlm]

Your problem is here:

You're correct - at the current rate of rage damage/generation, if the town ceases to damage and retreats to a heal-only strategy, the town's cumulative heal output will be greater than any secret damage. However, that requires all town players to stop hurting. If the town heals, does not hurt, and scum continue to acquire rage points, one of two situations will occur:

I am not suggesting a heal-only strategy. I'm not even suggesting a heal-mostly strategy. I am suggesting a strategy of

healing any and all damage that we are certain was done by scum

, and only that damage.

[Xylthixlm]

For your convenience, the unhealed damage dealt by scum is:

1 point of unhealed secret damage dealt to Nuwen.
1 point of unhealed secret damage dealt to DrippingGoofball.
1 point of unhealed secret damage dealt to The Fonz.
2 points of unhealed secret damage dealt to populartajo.

[Xylthixlm]

... and to be completely pedantic, I wasn't suggesting a strategy before, I was just pointing out that healing damage dealt by scum is good.

I seem to recall that populartajo's original ALL CAPS plan included healing.

[Xylthixlm]

Me thinks Tenchi was a bodyguard protecting someone else. His kill makes no sense right now.

This would make sense. The scum did a bunch of damage to kill someone, then when they saw it hit Tenchi instead they finished him off.

Tenchi coming up town means I need a reread of the last dozen or two pages.

Working up a damage count.

[Xylthixlm]

Alive

# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: WeyounsLastClone, q21 (2) Healed by: Nuwen,

Kinetic

(1)

# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla,

????? x1

,

????? x1

(3) Healed by: WeyounsLastClone/Cybelle, Seraphim, Xylthixlm (3)

# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)

# Firestarter/Drench (-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, The Fonz (4) Healed by: populartajo (1)

# Nuwen - Hurt by:

????? x1

(1) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)
# populartajo - Hurt by:

????? x2

(2) Healed by: Tenchi (1)
# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)

# roflcopter - Hurt by: Shinnen_no_Me

x2

, Hoopla (3) Healed by: DrippingGoofball, populartajo, Hoopla,

WaltWishbone

(3)

# Seraphim - Hurt by: roflcopter, WeyounsLastClone, Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage, Firestarter, populartajo,

roflcopter x2

, q21 (9) Healed by: Shinnen_no_Me, populartajo (2)

# The Fonz - Hurt by:

????? x1

(1) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)

# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: Juls, zwetschenwasser, WaltWishbone

x2

, roflcopter

x2

, roflcopter

x2

, Tenchi (9) Healed by: Juls,

Drench

, WeyounsLastClone, Giuseppe (3)

Dead

# Shinnen_no_Me

- Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz,

Kinetic

,

DrippingGoofball

, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, q21,

Juls

, Xylthixlm, Nuwen

x2

, The Fonz, roflcopter

x2

(13) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

# Hoopla

- Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, roflcopter

x2

,

WaltWishbone

, Albert B. Rampage,

WeyounsLastClone

,

Juls

, Seraphim,

Juls

,

WaltWishbone

(9) Healed by: (0)

# WaltWishbone

- Hurt by: DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm, Nuwen, Xylthixlm,

WeyounsLastClone

, Nuwen

x2

,

zwetschenwasser

, q21, Seraphim,

vIQleS

, Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

, Nuwen

x2

(14) Healed by:

vIQleS

,

Kinetic

(2)

# Juls

- Hurt by: Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

,

vIQleS

, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe,

Seraphim

, DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

, Giuseppe,

Kinetic

(10) Healed by:

zwetschenwasser

(1)

# Kinetic

- Hurt by: roflcopter, roflcopter

x2

,

Juls

, roflcopter

x2

, Albert B. Rampage,

????? x3

(10) Healed by:

Hoopla

,

DrippingGoofball

,

DrippingGoofball

(1)

# WeyounsLastClone/Cybele

(-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm, Seraphim, Albert B. Rampage, Firestarter, populartajo, Xylthixlm, Seraphim, Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz,

Firestarter

(9) Healed by: q21 (1)

# vIQleS

- Hurt by: Kinetic, populartajo,

????? x6

(8) Healed by:

WaltWishbone

(1)

# zwetschenwasser

- Hurt by: q21, Seraphim, q21, q21,

????? x3

(7) Healed by: (0)

# Tenchi

- Hurt by: populartajo,

Juls

, Giuseppe,

????? x6

,

????? x3

(12) Healed by: (0)

Secret damage as of post 3165:
3 points of secret damage were used to kill Kinetic.
6 points of secret damage were used to kill vIQleS.
3 points of secret damage were used to kill zwetschenwasser.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to Nuwen.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to DrippingGoofball.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to The Fonz.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to populartajo.
9 points of secret damage were used to kill Tenchi (first 6, then 3).


Note: Damage counts are based on public information and reasonable assumptions. It's always possible that there are two secret effects cancelling each other out.

[Xylthixlm]

So, the first damage dealt to Tenchi was 6 points. There are three logical possibilities:

1. The scum were trying to finish off Firestarter.
2. The scum were trying to finish off me.
3. The scum were trying to finish off DGB (before my heal).

I'm putting my money on #3. Ophans have been dying like flies.

[Xylthixlm]

The fact that he suspected DGB doesn't mean he wasn't guarding her. He could have used his guard before he grew suspicious. She was at 6 hp, so I put her on the list.

[Xylthixlm]

THE OBVIOUS LOGICAL REASONING IS THAT THE SCUM TRIED TO KILL TENCHI AFTER DGB USED HER OBSERVE ON HIM TO FIND OUT HE WAS PROTECTING OTHER ANGELS.

SO THEY TRIED TO KILL HIM, TAKING HIM DOWN TO 9 DAMAGE. SEEING AS HOW THAT DIDN'T KILL HIM, THEY FINISHED HIM OFF WITH THREE MORE RAGE POINTS.

WHY THE HELL WOULD SCUM USE RAGE TO KILL SOMEONE WHO WAS ONE OF THE MAJOR SUSPECTS?!

[Xylthixlm]

ABR: Let me get this straight. You are ruling out the possibility that Tenchi protected DGB. Because I am not ruling it out, I am scum. Is that your logic?

[Xylthixlm]

ABR: Let me get this straight. You are ruling out the possibility that Tenchi protected DGB. Because I am not ruling it out, I am scum. Is that your logic?

Err, Xyl, Tenchi thought DGB was Fallen Ophan. Why would he have protected her?

Maybe he started his protect period before he came to that conclusion. I can't rule it out.

[Xylthixlm]

ABR: Let me get this straight. You are ruling out the possibility that Tenchi protected DGB. Because I am not ruling it out, I am scum. Is that your logic?

Err, Xyl, Tenchi thought DGB was Fallen Ophan. Why would he have protected her?

Maybe he started his protect period before he came to that conclusion. I can't rule it out.

Its dumb to do it. And its dumb to put money on it.
And I know you arent dumb. Why, Xyl?

Because it's 9 in the morning and I'm posting as I'm thinking. I just counted up everyone who had 6 hp when the rage damage went off. I didn't even think of the possibility it could actually be targeted at Tenchi.

[Xylthixlm]

And damnit you guys are making me late for work.

[Xylthixlm]

Who the fuck was the idiot that healed DGB?

Healed the

rage damage

on DGB.

[Xylthixlm]

Both Seraphim and Xyl healed dgb. We now have our scum.

By this logic, DGB must be town because the scum did rage damage to her.

What? WIFOM, you say? BACK AT YOU.

[Xylthixlm]

DGB CANT BE TOWN BECAUSE SHE CLAIMED THAT XYL DIDNT USE ANY RAGE POINTS, WHICH WE WILL KNOW IS FALSE WHEN HE TURNS UP SCUM.

Please commit seppuku when I come up town.

The rest of the town, please assist ABR in committing seppuku.

Love, Xyl

[Xylthixlm]

More proof that Xyl is scum.

# Tenchi - Hurt by: populartajo, Juls, Giuseppe, ????? x6, ????? x3 (12) Healed by: (0)

How does Xyl know the exact amount of rage used?

Two hurt counts. See also the note at the bottom.

[Xylthixlm]

That Tenchi started with 12 hp.

[Xylthixlm]

That Tenchi started with 12 hp.

And why is that?

Guess.

[Xylthixlm]

I had to pick something to assume and I picked the most logical number, you maroon dipswitch.

[Xylthixlm]

We have. This feels like a Xyl-orchestrated effort, from top to bottom.

I'm flattered... I think. Although if it was

actually

a Xyl-orchestrated effort, Shinnen wouldn't have died.

[Xylthixlm]

But of course, Xyl.

If you were scum, the game would have gone

totally

differently to how it did. Really.

And here I thought you were stalking me in MD. I'm disappointed that you don't know my feelings about bussing.

[Xylthixlm]

in any event, if seraphim is dead by the time i recharge, xyl and then dgb are getting taken out

Are you still going to take out DBG when I flip town?

[Xylthixlm]

The amount of setting up mislynches which is going on here is making my head spin.

[Xylthixlm]

Alive

# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: WeyounsLastClone, q21 (2) Healed by: Nuwen,

Kinetic

(1)

# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla,

????? x1

,

????? x1

(3) Healed by: WeyounsLastClone/Cybelle, Seraphim, Xylthixlm (3)

# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)

# Firestarter/Drench (-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage, Seraphim, The Fonz (4) Healed by: populartajo (1)

# Nuwen - Hurt by:

????? x1

(1) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)

# populartajo - Hurt by:

????? x2

(2) Healed by: Tenchi (1)

# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)

# roflcopter - Hurt by: Shinnen_no_Me

x2

, Hoopla (3) Healed by: DrippingGoofball, populartajo, Hoopla,

WaltWishbone

(3)

# The Fonz - Hurt by:

????? x1

(1) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)

# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: Juls, zwetschenwasser, WaltWishbone

x2

, roflcopter

x2

, roflcopter

x2

, Tenchi (9) Healed by: Juls,

Drench

, WeyounsLastClone, Giuseppe (3)

Dead

# Shinnen_no_Me

- Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz,

Kinetic

,

DrippingGoofball

, Albert B. Rampage,

Seraphim

, q21,

Juls

, Xylthixlm, Nuwen

x2

, The Fonz, roflcopter

x2

(13) Healed by:

Seraphim

(1)

# Hoopla

- Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, roflcopter

x2

,

WaltWishbone

, Albert B. Rampage,

WeyounsLastClone

,

Juls

,

Seraphim

,

Juls

,

WaltWishbone

(9) Healed by: (0)

# WaltWishbone

- Hurt by: DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm, Nuwen, Xylthixlm,

WeyounsLastClone

, Nuwen

x2

,

zwetschenwasser

, q21,

Seraphim

,

vIQleS

, Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

, Nuwen

x2

(14) Healed by:

vIQleS

,

Kinetic

(2)

# Juls

- Hurt by: Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

,

vIQleS

, DrippingGoofball, Giuseppe,

Seraphim

, DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm,

zwetschenwasser

, Giuseppe,

Kinetic

(10) Healed by:

zwetschenwasser

(1)

# Kinetic

- Hurt by: roflcopter, roflcopter

x2

,

Juls

, roflcopter

x2

, Albert B. Rampage,

????? x3

(10) Healed by:

Hoopla

,

DrippingGoofball

,

DrippingGoofball

(1)

# WeyounsLastClone/Cybele

(-1 HP) - Hurt by: Xylthixlm,

Seraphim

, Albert B. Rampage, Firestarter, populartajo, Xylthixlm,

Seraphim

, Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz,

Firestarter

(9) Healed by: q21 (1)

# vIQleS

- Hurt by: Kinetic, populartajo,

????? x6

(8) Healed by:

WaltWishbone

(1)

# zwetschenwasser

- Hurt by: q21,

Seraphim

, q21, q21,

????? x3

(7) Healed by: (0)

# Tenchi

- Hurt by: populartajo,

Juls

, Giuseppe,

????? x6

,

????? x3

(12) Healed by: (0)

# Seraphim

- Hurt by: roflcopter,

WeyounsLastClone

, Xylthixlm, Albert B. Rampage, Firestarter, populartajo,

roflcopter x2

, q21, The Fonz, Albert B. Rampage (11) Healed by:

Shinnen_no_Me

, populartajo (2)

Secret damage as of post 3292:
3 points of secret damage were used to kill Kinetic.
6 points of secret damage were used to kill vIQleS.
3 points of secret damage were used to kill zwetschenwasser.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to Nuwen.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to DrippingGoofball.
1 point of secret damage was dealt to The Fonz.
2 points of secret damage were dealt to populartajo.
9 points of secret damage were used to kill Tenchi (first 6, then 3).


Note: Damage counts are based on public information and reasonable assumptions. It's always possible that there are two secret effects cancelling each other out.

[Xylthixlm]

I take responsibilities for this death.
I really dont know what to make of this right now.

Congratulations, you now know how I've been feeling since WaltWishbone and Juls came up town.

[Xylthixlm]

DGB: Do you have a watch result from the Tenchi death?

[Xylthixlm]

All that diversion on Tenchi and now I'm back to wanting to kill ABR and roflcopter.

[Xylthixlm]

I was an Ophan (aka tracker) in the last game and trust me it was very hard to spot any action, since the only possible actions you could get is another Ophan watching someone or some random scum using rage points.

Also, Seraphim, the player, dont get frustrated for listening to rolf. Trust me. The best idea is to ignore him completely until he realizes how wrong he is in some things.

I understand this but all this behavior is also ext possible to come from a player that has no time.
Let her catch up and not treat her to hurt her. If she is scum, it would become too obvious. Trust me.

As I said, let her catch up. Im not saying she is obv town. Im only saying that there is nothing that indicates obv scum behaviour. It will become obvious if she is scum when she catches up. Trust me.

DGB, trust me in this one. There is still odds that you could have been fooled by scum.

[Xylthixlm]

This is an accusation, Xyl?

No, I'm just slightly annoyed by your overuse of "trust me".

[Xylthixlm]

The amount of setting up mislynches which is going on here is making my head spin.

and yet you had no comment when it was nuwen doing just that

I'll admit I'm biased when the mislynch being set up is my own.

[Xylthixlm]

roflcopter: Why do you think ABR is town?

[Xylthixlm]

roflcopter: So you think everyone on the Hoopla mislynch was town?

[Xylthixlm]

roflcopter: So you think everyone on the Hoopla mislynch was town?

Can you say the same on the Walt mislynch?

I'm still unsure on ... actually I'm unsure on everyone who was on that wagon but me and the dead players. DGB and Nuwen are leaning town but not strong town, q21 is neutral.

[Xylthixlm]

Also Kinetic... ABR and roflcopter are the only living players on the Hoopla wagon and on the Kinetic wagon. Both of those wagons were pretty weak. At least one of ABR or roflcopter has to be scum, probably both.

[Xylthixlm]

heal dgb

Too soon. Flay

[Xylthixlm]

There is a lot more but I dont have the time to hunt it. You think I am town and I am asking to trust me in this. Please hurt him and dont let time waste in your replacement.
Of course, do this only if you are town.

Baldly manipulative. Good going Tajo.

[Xylthixlm]

Heal DrippingGoofball

[Xylthixlm]

There is a lot more but I dont have the time to hunt it. You think I am town and I am asking to trust me in this. Please hurt him and dont let time waste in your replacement.
Of course, do this only if you are town.

Baldly manipulative. Good going Tajo.

Why did you heal DGB and not hurt rolf, scum?

When did you stop beating your wife?

[Xylthixlm]

I'm not hurting Xyl without a case. Give me the case, I'll give the hurt.

Wasting my time here.
Hurt Xyl if you are town.
Thats my case.

You can do better than that.

[Xylthixlm]

Heal DrippingGoofball

Xyl, how many rage you have left.
Please kill me.

Sorry, I don't have rage. Ask roflcopter.

[Xylthixlm]

Give me the damn argument if you believe it's true! You're the one talking about wasting time: give me the argument, and if it's good, I'll hurt Xyl.

Would somebody please give me the argument against Xyl?!

I stopped driving mislynches after only three. Apparently I'm supposed to keep driving them. Or maybe I'm supposed to always lynch right.

[Xylthixlm]

Im sad. Im amazed at the amount of bad plays we had in this game. I feel responsible.

So stop?

[Xylthixlm]

FUCK YOU SCUM FUCK YOU SO HARD THAT YOU CANT SIT

Hello overacting.

[Xylthixlm]

uh huh. 6 out of 9? you seem to have a lot of inside information on the people who got raged out of existence. do you even look at the lists of who hurt who?

If you stretch any further you'll break.

[Xylthixlm]

say, xyl, it seems like you missed a question from me earlier

you think the hoopla wagon was weak, then what was the walt wishbone wagon?

Almost as weak. Next questio?

[Xylthixlm]

who are your scumpartners?

Ghandi, Mother Teresa, and the Dalai Llama

[Xylthixlm]

Would someone care to look at the interactions between Shinnen and ABR prior to page 14? That's not very many posts, only for the two players. It's an easy job. What do you see?

A little bit of idle chatter at the beginning, then no interaction for 10 pages despite both going after Kinetic, then ABR brings up Shinnen in post 262 and bam! puts a hurt on in 275. Shinnen puts an intent to hurt on ABR but never goes through with it. Could be scum-scum interaction very easily.

The difference between Shinnen's interactions with ABR and with roflcopter are also interesting. The roflcopter interactions actually look more like scum-townie rather than scum-scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Ok guys. This whole game I've been thinking The Fonz was being awesome and obvtown. I finally looked at all his posts and ... if you ignore the theory issues, he's basically just sitting on the sidelines occasionally giving a wagon a slight nudge.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm going to sleep. I'm guessing someone is going to recharge and kill me, so just in case Mr. Flay gets around to posting my death before I come back, here's my final words:

Congratulations, you just killed Xylthixlm, Loyal Cherub and

confirmed townie

. I hope you're proud of yourself, scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Also, could we have won if we had masshealed q21 instead of hurting each other?

It's theoretically possible - Fallen Angels and Satan could have more or less nuked each other, then the last Loyal Angels realize what's going on and kill q21/the last Fallen for the win. It's messy and mostly-undeserved, but until q21 raged on a townie (Firestarter I think) it was

possible

.

Has Xyl come back to the thread yet? I have a theory on how to automate this (minus Metatron's role, of course). Actually, after Cruise Ship I think the next variant of this I'll run will be an Infiltration of Hell by the loyals, perhaps to rescue the Metatron.

I'm on vacation, nyah.

I think there were two problems with the town's play in this game, which were really one problem:
* Too much spreading of hurts, which let the scum chain together ragekills
* Not enough forcing people to take positions, which let the scum hide easily.

I think the super-aggressive people (ABR, roflcopter) were a large part of the problem. I realize that I looked super-aggressive myself, but I actually used almost all of my hurts where there was a strong consensus.

I wasn't completely ignoring DGB; I know that I can't read her, so I was looking to other players for clues to what they thought. Unfortunately nobody else seemed to be paying attention to her, either. After I was on the first few mislynches, I deliberately backed off to try to look more at interactions and hunt for scum; it might have helped, except roflcopter thought my lack of attacking was suspicious and went off solo on me, which distracted me too much to be able to get any useful scumhunting done.

[Xylthixlm]

DGB hurt Walt first. Not no consensus.

It's not impossible to miss a barn with a shotgun...

[Xylthixlm]

It's not impossible to miss a barn with a shotgun...

I said anybody could, not "everybody will". [/pedantry] I've done it too... my early game accusations tend to fly thick and heavy until something sticks. I just don't tend to claim credit for them later if I rescinded/reversed them halfway through...

The trick is correctly calling out the entire scumteam in your first post.

If you can't do that, the not claiming credit for wild ass-guesses thing works too.