War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[WeyounsLastClone]

Hey guys, currently reading the thread. But it's like a Hydra. When reading one post it seems two are being added. Anyway, hope to get up to speed soon.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Currently reading and up to page 15. Nice to see some familiar faces. I have a really bad feeling about ABR. He seems to be manipulating. And you're only manipulating if you're scum, otherwise you just have to argue and investigate.

Also, while I understand the point that spreading hurt around is bad, I don't think the 'voting' stuff works. Basically because in a real game it's hard enough to get a majority, let alone in this game where 'voting' isn't the main mechanic, and we can't get consensus on a structural way to approach this game already. Also, we shouldn't treat it as a regular game because scum can talk all the time here and adjust and discuss their behavior to what happens in game. (and there's the subjective point I don't like voting because I think the hurt/heal mechanic deserves to develop on its own, rather than just be subjected to the standard voting mechanic).

Anyway, hope to read the rest of the thread soon and come back with more.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Currently reading and up to page 15. Nice to see some familiar faces. I have a really bad feeling about ABR. He seems to be manipulating. And you're only manipulating if you're scum, otherwise you just have to argue and investigate.

Explain how. Also, HURT SOMEONE! And give reasons. Everyone please note that the last game I played with WLC, he lurked like a mofo there. And was scum. The fact that he shows up the same day i point out he hasn't posted indicates tactical lurking.

Great, I haven’t even joined for a day or two and get the ‘lurker’ card played. I posted when I first knew I was joining. I gave an update during my read of the game. If it coincided with you mentioning my absence, that’s a coincident. I at least haven’t read that you mentioned me already (haven’t read that page yet probably). I’ve been away from this site a couple of months, but I have a bit more time now than I had then. Still, 20+ pages is not something you read in an hour. Also, not everyone can be available all day, each day, I still have a job, and want to keep it that way

And I’m not going to use my hurt at the moment. For several reasons including: I don’t know who’s the best target at the moment; if I use it now I can’t use it for 24 hours so I might not be able to heal or hurt when it would be more useful; hurting too much without a clear vision benefits scum, as tajo pointed out several times before.

What I don’t like about ABR is that he presents himself in a somewhat commanding tone. He gives directions to people. But he doesn’t necessarily follow that direction, and takes on a different direction himself. He also uses special text with his ‘hurt’, which is something that I absolutely don’t trust.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I'll

Hurt: Hoopla

. His ties with Shinnen seem to take place more early on, and seem to fade when Shinnen gets suspected a bit. That said, I suppose scum isn't entirely stupid so I doubt the other scum would interact too much with Shinnen. Still, for all we know, scum is concocting a master plan by offing one of their own day 1, and try to go from there. But that's not a theory that's fruitful at the moment I guess.

With carnage erupting all around him, the spirit of the Fonz nonetheless takes a couple of minutes out from his busy schedule of killing fallen angels to perform his legendary 'I told you so' dance.

Rofl: I attacked her first, and without wavering. It was I who pointed out the reasons why she was scum. I don't think it's wrong to say that i deserve a substantial portion of the credit. (You hurt Hoopla first, and went on to say you'd hurt whichever was closer to death- you only really went for Shinnen after she hurt you).

The 'look how good I did' is quite meaningless.

Also @WLC: Bitch all you want. We were 25 pages in, and you hadn't posted yet. That's serious lurking. You made excuses in RP mafia, too.

I'm not making excuses. Get your freaking facts straight. I posted right when I knew I was replacing. Then I posted during my reread to put some thoughts in the group. After reading it back, it might have been at the wrong place because I was still focusing on tajo's idea (which seemed to be the main point of attention in the first couple of pages), whereas everyone else seemed to have moved on. I'm up to date at the moment, and intent to join the conversation and discussion.

One thing I found highly suspicious is Nuwen's claim to be a Seraph, after Shinnen and rofl were kinda confirmed. I'd have to look at Nuwen's voting pattern, but he could be a Fallen using his 'in thread' vote, and his pm rage point at the same time to make it look like he's a Seraph, making use of the likely fact there wouldn't be two scum Seraphs. I think it was quite an unnecessary place for Nuwen to claim.

Oh, and zwetschenwaters out of the blue claim to be an Orphanim was strange. @zwet: why did you claim at that point??

@tajo: what happend between post 728 and 750 to remove Tenchi and Viqles from your scumlist and add Juls?

[WeyounsLastClone]

What about if we let Hoopla survive a couple of aeons more?

Too what point? If hoopla is scum, a quick kill is the best option. Otherwise hoopla can use regular heal/hurt, as well as rage points possibly. And then you add another comment that Ophanim should track Hoopla? WTF? Block yourself for 72 hours for a likely scum?

At least I'm glad Hoopla gave an pbp overview, which should prove interesting both if Hoopla is town or scum.

[WeyounsLastClone]

why is no one discussing more about Walt's posts 1042/1043/1044?
Walt: what was your thought process at that point, why did you feel the need to specify the number of scum, and then adjust your number?

I'd be willing to heard Walt because of his somewhat nervous behavior later as well as these 3 post mentioned. I'd also be willing to hurt Juls because she doesn't bring anything on her own. How convenient to just follow someone else, which allows you to post, but not having to say something new yourself which might make you slip up. Finally, I'd be willing to hurt ABR. Could be it's just his personality, but I've been scum with him in a previous game, and his behavior now feels really like then (granted, I haven't played with him when he was town, so I don't know if he'd behave in the same way).

[WeyounsLastClone]

Ah, Weyouns! Describe to us what I was like as your teammate in RP mafia.

Bluffing your way through

[WeyounsLastClone]

Ah, Weyouns! Describe to us what I was like as your teammate in RP mafia.

Bluffing your way through

I want you to be extremely specific about everything you remember about me, of our interactions in-thead and off-thread, of the things that you see here that happened in that game, all of it.

Don't you think that's kinda broad? Our off-thread interactions have nothing to do with my observation this time anyway. Our interactions in game were kept to a minimum (which was a good thing). What happened in that game you somehow got the lead, by talking much and sounding convincing.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Also, recharged now. Since I'm off to bed in a moment (european...), I'll use my hurt now so I'll be able to recharge and have another heal/hurt tomorrow again.

With support of Nuwen and Xyl

Hurt: WaltWishbone.

[WeyounsLastClone]

At ABR and TheFonz: what do you think of Walt? Seems today you guys kept more quite than usual.

@tajo: why exactly should we leave Walt alive? He claims at a strange time, he makes an awkward series of posts where he goes into the number of scum and then says he disappears for one and a half day in which he (logically) assumes to be eliminated.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@tajo, if Walt's scum, why leave him alive to let him gain rage points? why are you specifically mentioning sunday? (I highly doubt you would be that obvious if you're scum)

[WeyounsLastClone]

@tajo, if Walt's scum, why leave him alive to let him gain rage points? why are you specifically mentioning sunday? (I highly doubt you would be that obvious if you're scum)

According to the graphic I just posted (!) the last game scum got rage points in every Sunday.
Do you think Walt is scum?

No, I think Walt is town, that's why I hurt him yesterday, and arguing against him now..

And why exactly do you want to keep Walt alive especially until Sunday to gain a rage point? From my perspective that's a bad thing for town.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Yeah, it's not like Walt is gonna tell us if/when he's going to use his rage point.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Heal: Xylthixlm

. Before we start hurting the ones already hurt now, I think we have to wait exactly how the Walt-thing turns out. I think scum was on the sideline with the whole Walt-wagon.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Wow, don't have time for a day, and three people get killed.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I get the feeling with our first kill getting a scum quite easily, and now killing townies one by one, we were tricked to 'feel safe' day one, and that it was just a masterplan by scum. In that case, I guess scum were onto Shinnen, but kept in the background during the next lynches. Because of this, I feel there's probably scum among ABR, populartajo, rofl, and The Fonz. ABR: someone used the term personality to describe why ABR acts how he acts in this game. Could be, but I see it as scumminess.
Populartajo's reaction on the WaltWishbone thing almost feels like he knew Walt would turn up town to earn some credit.
Rofl was just crazy to hit kinetic over and over. The Fonz, it's more gut feeling than anything, but he kinda came across too confident and controlling.

What I think might be a good idea is have two targets, of which you would say 'if one is scum, the other is not, and vice versa.' And we'll bring them both down. I think if we take two opposite persons, chances one of them would be scum are quite big.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I get the feeling with our first kill getting a scum quite easily, and now killing townies one by one, we were tricked to 'feel safe' day one, and that it was just a masterplan by scum. In that case, I guess scum were onto Shinnen, but kept in the background during the next lynches. Because of this, I feel there's probably scum among ABR, populartajo, rofl, and The Fonz. ABR: someone used the term personality to describe why ABR acts how he acts in this game. Could be, but I see it as scumminess.
Populartajo's reaction on the WaltWishbone thing almost feels like he knew Walt would turn up town to earn some credit.
Rofl was just crazy to hit kinetic over and over. The Fonz, it's more gut feeling than anything, but he kinda came across too confident and controlling.

What I think might be a good idea is have two targets, of which you would say 'if one is scum, the other is not, and vice versa.' And we'll bring them both down. I think if we take two opposite persons, chances one of them would be scum are quite big.

^ Reading lines fed to him through daytalk

What? I don't post content and it's suspicious, I post content and it's suspicious?

You thinking of daytalk makes me think you have more to do with daytalk than the rest of us.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Wait you want us to hurt someone we don't think is scum?

WLC.
Please answer this with respect to your proposed plan.
kthxbai.

No. I want us to hurt two people who we think might both be scum, but not together. A couple you would say, 'if one is scum, the other isn't; and vice versa'. Off course, it'd have to be a collaborative effort, and people who are more leaning towards one of them would hurt that one, and others the second.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Guys, have you looked at our track record lately? 5 kills, of which only 1 is scum. I think with my plan there's a high probability to hit scum. Offering 1 possible townie to catch 1 scum is okay in my opinion.

What I really fear that if we keep killing people by concensus one by one, it will be scum really controlling the kills. I know it'd hurt to lose another townie, but the way we're going now isn't getting us anywhere.

@Firestarter: please don't bring the voting system back, it was hard enough to let tajo drop it. It turned out it wouldn't work here, although it's a good idea. It doesn't have enough supporters, let it rest.

@ DGB, at the moment my top 5 scum would rate:

1) ABR
2) rofl
3) tajo
4) Fonz
5) Firestarter

[WeyounsLastClone]

Here's an idea i just thought of after the post... since i strongly suspect one of the seraphim is scum, how about both agree to not use their blades? That reduces the effectiveness of one-man wagons.

I support this idea. If the Seraph in question is town, (s)he'll never know if it's the right target, and I don't even need to mention why a scum Seraph using the blade would be bad.

I really really don't like what DGB and Xyl are doing at the moment. Look how they skillfully twist and abuse what I say.

My plan is a decent plan, at least better than what Xyl and DGB have done up til now. Sure it has a high chance of lynching town, but it'll have a high chance of lynching scum. AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED RIGHT NOW INSTEAD OF SLOWLY KILLING ALL TOWNIES.

Also, Xyl and DGB are the ones asking everyone for full pbp-analysis. This is a nice way to look townie, while it actually is a scum-action because they gain insight quite a lot. I feel people should only give the top 3, or 5, at least not full disclosure on their thought patterns. At least, not unless everyone does so.

Scumgroup for me now is Xyl, DGB, ABR, and Seraphim (maybe it's a bit OMGUS) but they ring most bells for me.

Hurt: ABR.

I've seen more people having problems with ABR. It's time for action against him. For now it was just talk against him without him actually getting hurt. I want to see his reaction (and others) when he gets damaged.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Hurt: ABR.

I've seen more people having problems with ABR. It's time for action against him. For now it was just talk against him without him actually getting hurt. I want to see his reaction (and others) when he gets damaged.

WHERE IS YOUR SUPPORT FOR THIS

If ABR was an indisputed player, I wouldn't have hurt him. I don't know if this wagon on me will continue or not, but before it actually gets really moving, I want to have done something useful. There have been enough people commenting on ABR that I feel my hurt is justified.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Meanwhile, "never stop fighting until the fight is over" applies here. I'm going to keep using my hurts to kill suspicious players up until my last breath.

This is how I currently feel. ABR, please be able to handle the heat, and not only giving people the heat yourself. I thought there were enough people against you, and you seem to feel the same way.

If we never start hurting the likes of you, 'tajo, Fonz, etc., and you somehow manage to sustain that, scum would have an easy way I think.

I also absolutely do not like how Firestarter seems to go for the easy explanation: WLC was on Hoopla, and Walt, so he must be scum. I found Walt scummy, he made a slip that looked a lot like a slip scum would make. If I knew who'd be scum, I'd be on the right wagon. If I were scum, I'd keep away from some wagons to not draw much attention on me.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Look at how low Xyl got. Rofl could have killed him, or the scum could have rage dumped on him. It's an action that needs to be discouraged, with at least a little threat of consequences.

And look how Xyl came back. At the moment I really don't know what to think of Xyl.

If one of Nuwen or rofl is scum, at this point I guess it's Nuwen. The way this 'counter hurt unit' is constructed, with only three supporters of it (as far as I see) it could be another way for mafia to control town. It's basically saying: you can't do anything unless it's controlled. Mafia knows town can't get consensus, so they'll have a big influence themselves.

And what are the exact rules. How much support is agreed upon? And can one support multiple wagons? If so, how much at once? I for one support rofl hurting Xyl, as well as the wagon now going on ABR. I also seriously question Firestarters motives (he resurrects an idea that didn't work in the first plays, and is playing on the safe side by going after the obvious).

And I still think the heal-mechanic is underused. If more people used heal, more people could use hurt without putting someone in direct danger, I think we'd get more info. If the info put around is true, scum would only get rage points after six days from now.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Dammit guys. How easy do you want to make it for scum?

These might well be my final words, but at the moment I think the scumgroup is among Seraphim, Firestarter, and Xyl. I'm not sure about ABR and The Fonz at the moment, but those would be next on my suspicion list.

Hurt: Seraphim.

[WeyounsLastClone]

WLC is not dead.

how do you know?

I only had 8 health to begin with. I didn't exactly count the number of times I got hurt.

And The Fonz really switched his ways saying first my behavior was that of a townie, and now he wants me killed? Am I giving too much trouble, I would hardly think so.

[WeyounsLastClone]

WCL is lying. He's not dead yet. Finish him off, its possible he's a Fallen Ariel with 12hp.

Shut up. Are you really really stupid? What did I do that was scummy?

All townies, look at who started hurting me. Please use your head. Rofl can't be the only sane person around here (it would be really, really funny if Rofl turned out to be town).

[WeyounsLastClone]

if I were scum, I wouldn't be that stupid to give out sensitive information after I'm dead.

[WeyounsLastClone]

As far as I understood the rules, I can still talk until God returns. If not, sorry! I really hope town can get its act together and turn this around.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I really don't know. Now I'd say The Fonz, ABR, and Xyl. But that might be that desperate feeling kicking in
Second three would be Giuseppe, Firestarter, and Seraphim.

[WeyounsLastClone]

I think ABR is closer to hell than I am

[WeyounsLastClone]

Wow, good play scum!

This game was just too fast, we were too scared of the weekend rage points. I don't why I got hurt really, but often when I start to talk, people find me (too) suspicious when I'm playing town. For some reason, when I'm scum and I start talking people suspect me less (luckily)...

Also the addition of Satan was quite nice. I think q21 did a good job on that. The claim of Michael was nice. Although the thought of a serial did cross my mind.

Anyhowz, a big applause for Mr. Flay! Thanks for running this, must've been one hell of a job... It was a lot of fun to play, and I'd love to join in a next version.