Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Theta Alpine]

sorry about absence just

losing motivation and have other things that have been taking up time

[Theta Alpine]

yknow it’s awfully convenient that the recruitment doesn’t get affected by the desperate…

the recruit is triggered by phrases and responses
not by targeting a player specifically
targeting modifiers will not effect it

[Theta Alpine]

scum that are recruited can then leave to become immune to the amway abilities

[Theta Alpine]

oh hey an actual deadline

but uh yeah
bingle did accept the power in our neighborhood

but i do not think actually got any powers or got recruited

[Theta Alpine]

do have to wait for the mod yeah

[Theta Alpine]

yeh

and i have now made the offer so

[Theta Alpine]

you lose the ability to do any night abilities besides amway granted ones

[Theta Alpine]

i am very checked out of this game right now

i mean i am reading the thread and such just

it is a lot and it is dragging on especially when i am kinda busy

i am not really adjusting reads on people based on recent pages much though cause i think
honestly
the day has gone on for too long for people to continue posting reliable tells in either direction

and thus i will stay on cook
some people seem frantic for any wagon except them which i find interesting

[Theta Alpine]

i will stay on cook myself though will admit
aureal is not looking very good right now with a self vore
not sure that was town giving up either

i would still prefer cook given what their ability can do to town though

[Theta Alpine]

There are less than 36 hours left, if you wanted Cook as a vote, you had a month to do it

cook has been
a pretty constant wagon throughout the day
and is i think the only other viable option for an elimination besides aureal

in fact cook has gotten up to e-2 i think as well

[Theta Alpine]

not currently but earlier in the day

[Theta Alpine]

i am no longer sure aureal is town but
i do think that i would rather have cook as the elim today

[Theta Alpine]

cook has been pretty bad as well in their response to getting wagoned

like really please stop pushing that it is one or the other
both are an option

[Theta Alpine]

we have more then just day 1 to elim people with

[Theta Alpine]

cook flipping tells us a lot more about other slots
cook if scum has an ability that could take out a roles capabilities near-permanently in some fashion
cook is probably scum based on their reactions to wagon and other things that people like ranger have mentioned

aureals flip would confirm that those in amway were not recruited though
we could prove that with two more recruits today to put us over the threshold of half the slots mafia if it was a mafia recruit
or the logic that an actual factional recruit would not be able to spread as fast as it did in a single day
seriously do you really think a list mod would design a role that could achieve wincon on day one

[Theta Alpine]

cook flipping tells us a lot more about other slots
cook if scum has an ability that could take out a roles capabilities near-permanently in some fashion
cook is probably scum based on their reactions to wagon and other things that people like ranger have mentioned

aureals flip would confirm that those in amway were not recruited though
we could prove that with two more recruits today to put us over the threshold of half the slots mafia if it was a mafia recruit
or the logic that an actual factional recruit would not be able to spread as fast as it did in a single day
seriously do you really think a list mod would design a role that could achieve wincon on day one

and you arent concerned if its a scum role that auto wins when X people trust it?

no cause such a role would be a role that could win on day one
not even night one
day one
i trust the listmods would not submit a role like that

the comparison role that was scum you keep bringing up had one thing this role does not
pacing

[Theta Alpine]

oddly enough aureals role does allow a night one win for town potentially
if we were inclined to get power to three or four vigs and have good coordinated shots
but that would require solving the game that well in the first place at which point deserved

actually i do think we can sort aureal with cooks flip though
since i do not think that is svs with how aureal is being pushed

[Theta Alpine]

oddly enough aureals role does allow a night one win for town potentially
if we were inclined to get power to three or four vigs and have good coordinated shots
but that would require solving the game that well in the first place at which point deserved

actually i do think we can sort aureal with cooks flip though
since i do not think that is svs with how aureal is being pushed

oh this is believable but a n1 scum win isnt' :Joy_cat:

ok lmao

it requires town figuring out all the scum on day one
so yeah i would believe that to be a reasonable prerequisite to a night one win

[Theta Alpine]

oddly enough aureals role does allow a night one win for town potentially
if we were inclined to get power to three or four vigs and have good coordinated shots
but that would require solving the game that well in the first place at which point deserved

actually i do think we can sort aureal with cooks flip though
since i do not think that is svs with how aureal is being pushed

Yeah but Cook's town so we'll be back at square one

cook is not town
they have a lot of good posts sure but they are not town

[Theta Alpine]

i tend not to vore slots who have recently replaced out
reason i did not vote your slot when doctor drew repd out

[Theta Alpine]

well that was a mobile typo and a half

[Theta Alpine]

t and r why do you have to be right next to each other

but uh yeah i meant vote

[Theta Alpine]

if it was a scum role outright i think it would have a lot more pacing
one recruit a day sort of thing

instead of potentially everyone recruited all on day one

[Theta Alpine]

it may have been designed with anything upick in mind
but with the lack of pacing i think it is not going to be a wincon it builds up to

in fact it will probably just remove itself from the equation entirely with some trigger

[Theta Alpine]

meuh is a universal backup
aureal is a non-factional cult

[Theta Alpine]

to vastly oversimplify things on both accounts to an extent

[Theta Alpine]

you know what

i will paraphrase the amway info i got when i get back to a computer

[Theta Alpine]

okay yeah when i get back to computer has been complicated by car battery dying so uh yeah

[Theta Alpine]

the vig and recruit action are on the same target yes
but otherwise ofrhz has an accurate summary it looks like

[Theta Alpine]

right then
ranger i am hoping you did not target me last night

i will claim my action and the result after i get a question answered by the moderator

[Theta Alpine]

actually knowing if ranger targeted me or not would also be helpful first

[Theta Alpine]

i will point out right now that the scum team would not know if this is their traitor or not unless they hooked up communication with their traitor already

[Theta Alpine]

well actually

this is just incredibly obvious to me now so i am fairly certain i know what happened but my question is only going to confirm that it was not something else so

i believe i found the traitor though unless dkkoba was the traitor
and my question will determine if dkkoba was the traitor

[Theta Alpine]

Because either way they would invest as townie

i believe i know who the traitor actually is at this point
but i am hoping i can confirm it with a question to the moderator

[Theta Alpine]

i mean
i might as well just say it i suppose since people already suspect
but i do believe bingle is the traitor based on a conversation at night
mainly bingle being rather insistent on wanting to be cleared by me

[Theta Alpine]

also you know

loudly proclaiming themselves as unrecruitable yesterday

[Theta Alpine]

and now for a very important question
did i have enough people recruited to actually neighborize without bingle being recruited

[Theta Alpine]

well what i am asking is if ircher actually got recruited

[Theta Alpine]

anyways can just get me to five recruits and elim cook
then i can ask tonight if i am able to roleblock someone

[Theta Alpine]

dkkoba unfortunately
though i was also interacting with bingle to try and get a read on then in our neighborhood because i kind of suspected that one of those two were power wolfing

dkkoba does investigate as town though i have confirmed that

[Theta Alpine]

i told kkfc what i was doing at night as well

[Theta Alpine]

wait a moment

that is three scum caught if bingle is scum
because if bingle has that traitor role then they actually are recruited into amway
and they used recruitment phrases in thread on ircher and dragoneater which if accepted would have revealed bingle

and actually we can test this right now
someone else use a recruitment phrase on bingle and if it can actually form a neighborhood then bingle is town

[Theta Alpine]

we should definitely test it though cause uh
i do not know why scum would kill dkkoba if their death had a one in four chance of revealing this

[Theta Alpine]

well what i am asking is if ircher actually got recruited

Save the Dragons can confirm. I don't know if Dragons' acceptance was processed however since it happened during the night phase.

oh cool that confirms it then
passive income is checked at the start of the night and in this situation dragons was not amway until after night started
meaning i should have only had two income to use last night
and yet was able to use the neighborize which can only happen at three income
meaning
bingle was in fact recruited into amway

[Theta Alpine]

again though any other Amway consultant besides ircher and dragoneater can confirm if bingle is amway by using a recruitment phrase on single
that is how to actually confirm bingles claim

[Theta Alpine]

There's a single, large problem with the narrative of me being a traitor.

My role is confirmed.

did not grab the correct quote but whatever

yes i do think you would sink two partners into false confirming your role
we accepted that you were bulletproof
and you were innocent to all cop-like checks
there was no way you could have been guiltied to be honest outside of

well
knowledge of your role existing

so why in the world would dkkoba ever be the night kill cause that gives so heavy amounts of pause as to whether i am actually correct or if there is any other world we could be in

[Theta Alpine]

kkfc if you see this please use a recruitment phrase on bingle and we can confirm them real quick

we can do this with a fourth person as well outside of ircher and dragoneater and you and then town can know for sure
anix i really hope that vote on dragoneater counted cause if it did then do not change it until we can confirm what is going on

and actually

[Theta Alpine]

i was going to recruit you anix so you could confirm yourself but then thought better of it since uh
you have very useful night actions

[Theta Alpine]

i will vote bingle if they refuse to interact with kkfcs recruitment phrase or if they get confirmed to be in amway

i am trying to figure out what it means if bingle is actually true claiming and can get neighborized again but right now i do not see many ways that could be possible

[Theta Alpine]

Might as well recruit him. He's going to vig dragon eater who is obvious town

no

if bingle is scum then ircher and dragoneater are also both scum

[Theta Alpine]

if bingle is scum actually then also
dragoneater was probably recruited into amway by bingle and not ircher
so that they could continue communication between traitor and groupscum

at least i would assume that is what they did

[Theta Alpine]

Well then do the bingle confirm thing

Also std didn't you have a night action? Did you use it; and if so, how did anix get a no movement result on his track?

i have to wait for kkfc or skygazer to show up and try to recruit bingle
if they can both form a neighborhood with bingle using the amway recruitment phrase then bingle is true claiming
otherwise we have caught scum

[Theta Alpine]

now we wait for bingle to accept or to refuse to interact with it
and then for a votecount to ensure the mod has had a chance to process it

[Theta Alpine]

i will vote bingle if they refuse to interact with kkfcs recruitment phrase or if they get confirmed to be in amway

The proof of my claim isn't my inability to be in AMWAY, it's my inability to be given AMWAY abilities. I have no way of knowing whether I'm in AMWAY, which is kind of a thing we talked about yesterday.

nice try but
we already know that the ability to use the recruitment phrases is not an ability proper
it is an event that is unaffected by player modifiers such as my desperate or your inability to get abilities
it is a global event that runs on the following conditions
the condition that the player doing the recruitment phrase must be an amway consultant
and the person quoted by the amway consultant must reply and not be an amway consultant themselves

if you are an amway consultant you should have been able to recruit dragoneater or ircher despite your inability to get abilities
the claim yesterday was that you were unable to do so
thus claiming that you are not an amway consultant

[Theta Alpine]

i have not decided who should be the lim to be honest
though given anix is hopefully on track to vig dragoneater then killing dragoneater would be rather inefficient

this was only ever going to end in a 1v1 between us though to be honest
i am not going to vote until kkfc confirms it though because aaaaaa that kill makes no sense

p-edit
i cannot quote it since it was private communication but the mod did tell me that recruitment drive was an event and not an ability when explaining that my modifier would not affect it

[Theta Alpine]

i do not think i will actually argue against me being the lim here to be honest
given it is one for three and there is a vig lined up on dragoneater so parity will be preserved

[Theta Alpine]

I think Cook accidentally spewed Meuh town here by claiming she is "cleared" by DkKoba's flip.

I've the opposite read: scum trying to clear their scumbuddy.

the problem here is
i might have caught three scum elsewhere which
does not leave room for cook and meuh to both be scum

which also gives me pause because i was thinking they were scum before today started

[Theta Alpine]

wait i just realized that koba was the kill, was that really scum's best kill?

that is the thing

i do not understand why koba would be the kill in the world where bingle is scum

[Theta Alpine]

i do not know of anyone else who could be the traitor besides bingle is the thing

bingle very clearly signaled that they were not recruitable
which for a traitor that is not recruitable and given the setup would know their team would not know this
is rather important to get out there

[Theta Alpine]

im pretty sure that scum couldve pushed a mislim onto koba unless theyre actually in that bad of a spot right now

i had signalled i was potentially going to check dkkoba to bingle during the night but unsure if that would have influenced it

[Theta Alpine]

though i was actually expecting that to end with me getting the night kill not dkkoba

[Theta Alpine]

@xyzzy

is being an amway consultant as per aureals flip considered any of the following
a recruitment or a power or a change to a players role

[Theta Alpine]

also gutless has a different definition here than on the wiki?

so does traitor
also giving godfather as well as normal traitor things

[Theta Alpine]

if mine and bingles question to the mod are answered it should become clear if bingle is able to have true claimed in this situation or not
so now i wait

[Theta Alpine]

aureal being elimed actually makes this rather nice
can just get answers about that role right here in the thread where everyone can see it

[Theta Alpine]

nah
neighborhoods generated by amway will not prevent recruitment

[Theta Alpine]

well i only needed a yes to one of those per what bingle said so
they should not have been able to become an amway consultant per their claim which included that they could not be recruited

[Theta Alpine]

VOTE: bingle

there are probably better votes but this is more just me saying i no longer think there is a situation where bingle can be town despite my earlier misgivings about the mechanical guilty

[Theta Alpine]

well
i probably should wait for kkfc to claim if they got a neighborhood or not but

that will confirm bingles role one way or another
either they are true claiming somehow and a neighborhood forms and i ended up at 3 income some other way somehow
or no neighborhood forms and bingles claim is false given they are in fact recruitable where their claim says they cannot be

[Theta Alpine]

well even if bingle isnt the traitor they could still be any other mafia role

i mean

loudly proclaiming unrecruitable when an unrecruitable and not bulletproof traitor
kind of hard to imagine a scenario where bingle is not the traitor

[Theta Alpine]

well it is what i was told so not sure what to say about that

[Theta Alpine]

Ultimately your choice though. Unless this day quickends in the next 37 hours (the day needs to last 72 hours for my vigshot to activate), I have satisfied every other necessary component to vigshot you. Either you start being honest with the town about your role or I'll just have the mod be honest about what your role was.

we have death millers already, what makes you think de70's role will be real too?

Claim your night action?

targeted bingle, he's hated now

uh

you did claim you could only give targeting-related negative utility i thought
stuff like loyal or things like that which limit who you can target
or stuff like weak

[Theta Alpine]

that
actually yeah that works then
very cut and dry and we directly get to prove if bingle is lying or not

[Theta Alpine]

There's a single, large problem with the narrative of me being a traitor.

My role is confirmed.

Have you heard about this new opportunity to make extra income?

Did we ever come to a conclusion here?

Joining amway isn’t the bit that conflicts with my role, being able to use the amway power is. The whole attempt was an attempt to paint me as confscum for word choice while paraphrasing while theta actually did lie about xyzzy saying the recruit wasn’t an action.

after the game ends i will have to quote what the mod told me cause
it is what i was told

[Theta Alpine]

to be fair

targeting a person that has claimed unchangeable is
probably fine
it only applies if the person is lying anyways

[Theta Alpine]

i do not understand why you would target bingle with that during night one but

[Theta Alpine]

let the vig anix has prep first but yeah

[Theta Alpine]

just need three more votes on bingle and then we get to see if they are lying or not

[Theta Alpine]

i mean
if bingle is lying then dragoneater should have gotten a neighborhood with bingle
dragoneater did not claim that this happened
so if bingle is lying then uh

[Theta Alpine]

if the day ends by bingle being elimed at e-1 and thus scum
then dragoneater is scum as well and should get vigged

[Theta Alpine]

if the day ends by bingle being elimed at e-1 and thus scum
then dragoneater is scum as well and should get vigged

weren't you in that Weird Dreams Mafia II game? Do you think DE sounds anything like that game here?

tbh no
there are multiple things that are leading me to believe i might be wrong about my mechanical reasons for suspecting bingle and dragoneater here
but there are also some pretty strong reasons to suspect them as well
and with a mechanical way to prove it once and for all being presented then well
that simplifies matters immensely

[Theta Alpine]

i do not remember unvoting bingle but uh
VOTE: bingle

[Theta Alpine]

oh huh was not expecting ircher to be scum in this situation

well good game then