Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Meuh]

Meuhment

[Meuh]

Meuhment

ITT: Meuh being super townie and people scumreading her for it (due to postgame in the large that finished)

?

[Meuh]

RN's ISO here is night and day with the town!RN I just played with so
VOTE: RandomNurse

[Meuh]

I scrolled through Cook's ISO but I didn't really get anything meaningful out of it

[Meuh]

Why :(

[Meuh]

Aureal can you do some scummy stuff pls

[Meuh]

I miss him already...

[Meuh]

Is there a full claim list somewhere?

[Meuh]

oH god I did not think the role list was that intense

[Meuh]

Random Nurse actually flips scum though cmonnnnnnnnnn pleaaaaaaaaaaase

[Meuh]

I am after playing with RN before

[Meuh]

Flakiness isn't my issue here I think the actual content there all looks bad

[Meuh]

Random Nurse actually flips scum though cmonnnnnnnnnn pleaaaaaaaaaaase

Can people actually make cases? Did people forget how to do it or something?

I don't feel like I have my teeth sunk into the game well enough to provide a convincing argument for RN scum :(
If I tried to, it'd be mostly vibes and surface level stuff that would be unsatisfying for most players. I'm sure there's some more substantial stuff in that ISO that I can't meaningfully engage with without reading the earlier parts of the game. I'm generally not eager to read over a hundred pages so that's not happening, although I could read some parts of it? (If there's significant passages to check please let me know)

[Meuh]

AniX
Political Clout
Ranger
Theta Alpine
Save The Dragons
Aureal
Alisae
Deltabreedy
Random Nurse
camelCasedSnivy
DragonEater70
KatyKimFanClub
DkKoba
Bingle
Skygazer
Cook

I really hate this readlist, which is not surprising considering I think Ircher has been consistently scummy this game, but I'll bite:
Care to explain your reads?

Not really. I'll elaborate on why Cook is scum though (and

maybe

on why AniX is town later): the way she voted Drew in 683 and then continued voting Drew in 716 despite expressing a town read there was slimy. She then unvotes in 722, but it isn't because of her professed town read but because she is "bored of this wagon". That doesn't necessarily mean she is aligned with Drew (but she could be); however, it does come across as the kind of wishy-washy read that scum like to put out to avoid taking accountable stances. 815 and 817 are the kind of follow-ups I's expect scum to make. "Well, gee, I can't change the past, so you should just drop this line of attack." Like no, you should accept accountability for your actions rather than immediately going on the defensive.

The claim is scummy too. Apparently, she doesn't know what the modifier she provides before she provides it... but she learns what it is after she uses her action... I'm sorry, but I've seen very few roles that actually work that way. I don't think the moderators would actually design a role like that. Most roles are designed such that you either know what happens in advance, or it's random and you don't know what specifically happened. Thus, this seems like something Cook made up to give her enough room for maneuvering when she uses her actual ability.

1258 and 1282 were bad because they are just noise, don't actually accomplish their intended effect (if anything, it will just make the process slower due to spite), and are also ignorant of how Ranger explained she wasn't claiming immediately but would get to it when she could.

This case is good tbh I could hop on this

[Meuh]

I'm bloodthirsty in general though

[Meuh]

2. I get that you can't read everything, but out of the things you read, what made you scumread RN in particular?

I'm comparing RN here to RN in the game I've played with him that just ended (viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=91199&user_select%5B%5D=37068)
RN is a LOT more self-assured there, and holds stronger beliefs. Now this may be partially an activity thing (he seems to have been busier during this game than in the one I'm referencing, so he'd have less of a grasp on the game) but I don't think it justifies a gap this big. The only thing he takes a strong stance on and shows confidence in is activity not being indicative of alignment, which is always a really easy point to make and specifically serves the purpose of defending himself here. The idea that the game doesn't "start" for him until day 2 and he has a hard time engaging on day 1 doesn't line up with him extensively engaging on day 1 in that other game. The fact he leans on this as extra justification (rather than just being busy) reeks in my eyes. He also just has out there takes and isn't afraid to push them in that game. He did a bunch of work to put pressure on the most widely townread player there, entered conflict a bunch (in a way a lot less passive than here, the only time he gets aggressive at all is when saying that activity is NAI)
A lot of RN's commentary in this game also seems to be NAI beliefs that he holds more broadly. The aforementioned "activity is NAI", his thoughts on massclaiming, points like these:

I don't think I agree with "this trait Town, this trait Scum." Game's more complex than that.

Also, I touched on this already but it feels like his posting is made with the purpose of appealing to others. This isn't always scum indicative (I do it as town sometimes when I wanna get read accurately) but I think for RN it is. In the other game, even under pressure, his posts were never made with the intent to make himself just look good. In the other game he's having independent ideas brought to the table and his posting is with the motivation for himself to solve the game and push his ideas forward. Here he just gets through the chore of making some very inoffensive comments on some posts and moves on from there. He's not posting for himself, and that probably just makes him scum.

[Meuh]

RN's ISO here is night and day with the town!RN I just played with so
VOTE: RandomNurse

Funny you mention night/day differences as this is night/day difference from the Meuh I've seen from your towngames.

The Tommy Edman game is a bad frame of reference, btw. I said there that I brought back 2021 Meuh for a reason, there's a distinct obvtown vibe there that I usually don't go for. It's annoying cause it feels like the town games I play either:
1. Barely factor into people's meta on me because I got mislimmed early for not obvtowning
2. I make a deep run/leave a stronger impression, and now people expect me to obvtown every game
and it just goes around and around in a circle. I'm trying to break that perception, so you won't get the transparent spamposty Meuh that was in the endgame of the recent Pokémon game or during like the entirety of the Tommy Edman game.

[Meuh]

RN's ISO here is night and day with the town!RN I just played with so
VOTE: RandomNurse

Funny you mention night/day differences as this is night/day difference from the Meuh I've seen from your towngames.

It honestly feels like Meuh isn't even trying to hide being scum.

Cook's been the lead wagon for the entire time I've been pushing her.

DKKoba proposes a Random Nurse wagon, which has some support (mostly from the scummiest slots in the game), and Meuh joins the efforts there.

This is not the level of analysis a town-Meuh shows, and Meuh's vibes are completely off.

RN is obvscum though, like it's the main thing I feel strongly about here.
I've mentioned before that the case on Cook seems good, I'm planning on planting my vote there soon

[Meuh]

VOTE: Cook E-1
This day has been going on for 3 weeks??? Let's just end it

[Meuh]

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy I have to obvtown to not die day 1 now!!!!

[Meuh]

Doctor Drew/Delta

[Meuh]

VOTE: meuh
ok I think I have enough to say to flash wagon this

think I got meuhs number

is this based off of meuh or based off of the slot

Cook pls self-hammer to save me

[Meuh]

UNVOTE:

[Meuh]

Also is it obvious to everyone else that klick is scum yet

Yes!!!

[Meuh]

VOTE: meuh
ok I think I have enough to say to flash wagon this

think I got meuhs number

is this based off of meuh or based off of the slot

Cook pls self-hammer to save me

This is really funny. Also how do you use this emoji?

2. I get that you can't read everything, but out of the things you read, what made you scumread RN in particular?

I'm comparing RN here to RN in the game I've played with him that just ended (viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=91199&user_select%5B%5D=37068)
RN is a LOT more self-assured there, and holds stronger beliefs. Now this may be partially an activity thing (he seems to have been busier during this game than in the one I'm referencing, so he'd have less of a grasp on the game) but I don't think it justifies a gap this big. The only thing he takes a strong stance on and shows confidence in is activity not being indicative of alignment, which is always a really easy point to make and specifically serves the purpose of defending himself here. The idea that the game doesn't "start" for him until day 2 and he has a hard time engaging on day 1 doesn't line up with him extensively engaging on day 1 in that other game. The fact he leans on this as extra justification (rather than just being busy) reeks in my eyes. He also just has out there takes and isn't afraid to push them in that game. He did a bunch of work to put pressure on the most widely townread player there, entered conflict a bunch (in a way a lot less passive than here, the only time he gets aggressive at all is when saying that activity is NAI)
A lot of RN's commentary in this game also seems to be NAI beliefs that he holds more broadly. The aforementioned "activity is NAI", his thoughts on massclaiming, points like these:

I don't think I agree with "this trait Town, this trait Scum." Game's more complex than that.

Also, I touched on this already but it feels like his posting is made with the purpose of appealing to others. This isn't always scum indicative (I do it as town sometimes when I wanna get read accurately) but I think for RN it is. In the other game, even under pressure, his posts were never made with the intent to make himself just look good. In the other game he's having independent ideas brought to the table and his posting is with the motivation for himself to solve the game and push his ideas forward. Here he just gets through the chore of making some very inoffensive comments on some posts and moves on from there. He's not posting for himself, and that probably just makes him scum.

I checked out that game and I wanna say the difference in his style is that he actually PLAYED that game, but has not really played this one. But then I realized that it's totally possible that he hasn't played this one because he doesn't like playing scum.
So you got a point.

Emoji codes got added in the site update, I think the codes are compiled here: viewtopic.php?t=90442
I have "heart_eyes_cat" by heart though cause it's my favourite
A good few of them are the same as they are on Discord so if you're familiar with emojis there, you can use some of those

I do agree that RN actually playing does make a difference, but also think there's scumminess to his posting beyond just a disconnect with the game (like the posting feeling like it's made to appeal to others rather than help himself solve)
VOTE: Klick I'll park back here for now

[Meuh]

I'm here btw I've just had nothing to say

[Meuh]

Hunting scum does sound fun, I'm generally useless on mech and especially useless here

[Meuh]

Is there another role that is useless and can be recruited

Do you like lose your powers when you're recruited or something like that? Why does a bad role make one a good recruit target

[Meuh]

Oh then keep me out of that, I wanna spam powers

[Meuh]

Would it be good or bad for the lim to be on an Amwayd player?

[Meuh]

Dragon is town btw

[Meuh]

The one who consumes!
Or now that I think about it, the one who consumes dragons?
@DragonEater do you eat dragons or are you a dragon that eats in some sort of notable way?

[Meuh]

You can also be town actually now that I think about it

[Meuh]

Maybe if Bingle would stop putting out bad takes, I wouldn't feel like my most important task is correcting them!

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

Let's just kill Cook.

Let's kill Klick? Please?

[Meuh]

2. I get that you can't read everything, but out of the things you read, what made you scumread RN in particular?

I'm comparing RN here to RN in the game I've played with him that just ended (viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=91199&user_select%5B%5D=37068)
RN is a LOT more self-assured there, and holds stronger beliefs. Now this may be partially an activity thing (he seems to have been busier during this game than in the one I'm referencing, so he'd have less of a grasp on the game) but I don't think it justifies a gap this big. The only thing he takes a strong stance on and shows confidence in is activity not being indicative of alignment, which is always a really easy point to make and specifically serves the purpose of defending himself here. The idea that the game doesn't "start" for him until day 2 and he has a hard time engaging on day 1 doesn't line up with him extensively engaging on day 1 in that other game. The fact he leans on this as extra justification (rather than just being busy) reeks in my eyes. He also just has out there takes and isn't afraid to push them in that game. He did a bunch of work to put pressure on the most widely townread player there, entered conflict a bunch (in a way a lot less passive than here, the only time he gets aggressive at all is when saying that activity is NAI)
A lot of RN's commentary in this game also seems to be NAI beliefs that he holds more broadly. The aforementioned "activity is NAI", his thoughts on massclaiming, points like these:

I don't think I agree with "this trait Town, this trait Scum." Game's more complex than that.

Also, I touched on this already but it feels like his posting is made with the purpose of appealing to others. This isn't always scum indicative (I do it as town sometimes when I wanna get read accurately) but I think for RN it is. In the other game, even under pressure, his posts were never made with the intent to make himself just look good. In the other game he's having independent ideas brought to the table and his posting is with the motivation for himself to solve the game and push his ideas forward. Here he just gets through the chore of making some very inoffensive comments on some posts and moves on from there. He's not posting for himself, and that probably just makes him scum.

[Meuh]

Maybe if Bingle would stop putting out bad takes, I wouldn't feel like my most important task is correcting them!

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

Let's just kill Cook.

Let's kill Klick? Please?

Klick would be the apathy elimination. Klick could flip town, or Klick could flip scum, but it would provide far less information than eliminating Cook since most of the case comes down to "Random Nurse decided not to participate in this game." The meta argument is mostly an extension of that. I'd rather flip Cook here since the odds of scum are at least as good as Klick, but it would also be more informative given the number of non-activity related stances taken there.

Look at the actual content RN's posted. It's not just not playing the game. Look at the tone, look at the appeals, look at the things he spents his time on, look at the way he interacts with others, look at his ideas. He's just scum. Maybe it's an apathy lim to you because you haven't gotten anything meaningful from that ISO (or because you're not actually trying to read him) but there is more than enough there to give me a pretty good feeling that he's just scum.

[Meuh]

Cook is town actually, ISO skim looks good

[Meuh]

Mafia wont push things bc they dont wanna piss p ppl off into pushing them back.

There are 4 mafia and all aureal has is 2 scumreads the whole game.
Yes the progression looked ok on the surface level but again, list 5 reads aureal has this entire game.
3k posts, aureal has posted many of them, and still not a single fucking poe, or reads list, or towncore, or anything resemble resembling attempting to make reads

This post is so wrong it's

First, "Mafia won't push things" is a pile of crap opinion, but really...

Trying to not piss people off is supposed to be describing how I've played this game?!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh and I already gave reads on every slot in the game, but oh, I guess little things like facts don't matter

Guess you didn't do a great job evaluating my 'progression' if you didn't even bother paying attention to that, genius

I was so hopeful for actual thoughts but the post is 95% mech and the reads are just sorting people into 5 categories of townie to scum

[Meuh]

Are there examples of you elaborating on those reads? Explaining them? Anyone can throw players into 5 categories if they want, I can do it right now if I want!
Here's players sorted by how much I associate them to celery vs tomatoes

Klick (replacing Random Nurse) - Celery lean
Political Clout (replacing JasonWazza) - Celery
DragonEater70 - Tomato
Theta Alpine - Tomato lean
Ranger - Tomato
DkKoba - Celery lean
Save The Dragons - Null
AniX - Tomato lean
Skygazer - Celery lean
Ircher - Celery
Bingle - Tomato lean
Aureal - Celery lean
ofrhz (replacing Alisae) - Null
Cook - Tomato
camelCasedSnivy - Celery
KatyKimFanClub - Celery lean

There, reads!

[Meuh]

This is why I'm kind of a readslist hater as of late, just throwing someone in a category on a list isn't the same as voicing real thoughts on them

[Meuh]

IC = innocent celery

[Meuh]

Wowwwwwwwww

[Meuh]

I'd eat a tomato like an apple tbh I love tomatoes

[Meuh]

so i am in fact very anti tomato for some reason. like they have their uses (pasta, salsa, uhhhh that might be it?) but they need to be like finagled a lot for me to enjoy them.

That's fair
That's how I feel about cheese tbh I don't get the hype

[Meuh]

I'd eat a tomato like an apple tbh I love tomatoes

i absolutely cannot fathom this i'm sorry

The mess would probably make it annoying but taste-wise I'd be happy
Maybe I'd like it MORE than eating an apple tbh

[Meuh]

I respect cheese and its role in a lot of meals
But then I see someone just eat cheese like that and I start crying
Pedit: Hmm good point, people do kinda just throw it on everything

[Meuh]

I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT do pepper jack cheese though it grosses me out so much I hate it!!!!!!!!11111!!11!!

[Meuh]

realizing I dint vibe with the translated reads from.meuh so it canceled out

Those are not translated reads!! I spent like 3 minutes sorting people's vibes on tomato or celery

[Meuh]

realizing I dint vibe with the translated reads from.meuh so it canceled out

Those are not translated reads!! I spent like 3 minutes sorting people's vibes on tomato or celery

That's such a celery assumption to make though

[Meuh]

i think a big factor with me for cheese is just my stomach tho tbh

omg we're like doing the opposite of mind melding

My stomach is so strong that I'm not even scared of pineapples, people are like "pineapples eat you back!!!" and I'm like... "and?"
I'm not scared of them I do;t even care that's how confident I am in my stomach... but maye that's just a me thing and not everyone has that sort of bond with their stomach... maybe cheese with pineapple would be enough to get a shiver out of me though!! but the main way those are combined are on pizza and I've already conquered many a pizza, pineapple will make no difference for my valiant stomach... I love her so much she's so strong <3

[Meuh]

realizing I dint vibe with the translated reads from.meuh so it canceled out

Those are not translated reads!! I spent like 3 minutes sorting people's vibes on tomato or celery

That's such a celery assumption to make though

OHHHHHHH TOMATOES ARE RED AND CELERY IS GREEN

[Meuh]

realizing I dint vibe with the translated reads from.meuh so it canceled out

Those are not translated reads!! I spent like 3 minutes sorting people's vibes on tomato or celery

That's such a celery assumption to make though

OHHHHHHH TOMATOES ARE RED AND CELERY IS GREEN

I am a both person tho

Same, both are good
Although to me it was less "this person would enjoy this vegetable" (yes tomato is a vegetable, get over it) and more "this person conveys the aura of this vegetable"
I'm such a genius that I accidentally made that colour scheme happen

[Meuh]

Was Cook pro or anti massclaim? Because on first glance that's what I would assume motivated her comment

[Meuh]

Spoiler: irrelevant fluff

The one who consumes!
Or now that I think about it, the one who consumes dragons?
@DragonEater do you eat dragons or are you a dragon that eats in some sort of notable way?

Well it's complicated. My username does refer to eating dragons (see also my signature), but when I was little I was told to make a wish and my wish was to become a dragon and that's sort of what my dream has always been. So in a sense I'm a dragon who eats other dragons.

Meuh, you said you like scumhunting? Let's play a game. We totally ignore anything that happened before page 116, and based just on things from that page onward, who do you think is scum?

(I'm also gonna answer this question but first I actually have to read these pages)

Planning on doing this at some point tonight, could be fun

[Meuh]

116: CCS town, orfhz lean town, Bingle nullscum,
117: orfhz still lean town, CCS still town, Ranger lean scum at first but later posts lean town (scumreading me bad though smh)
118: Skygazer lean town, Bingle nulltown, DragonEater town, Meuh locktown, Theta null
119: Koba lean town, Aureal lean scum at this point, Bingle lean town, CCS keeps being town
120: Cook nulltown, orfhz lean town, Skygazer lean town, Koba still town, Aureal lean scum, Ircher nullscum at this point?
121: Koba town, Cook nulltown, Aureal lean scum, Ircher lean scum
122: Aureal scum, Skygazer lean town, KKFC null
123: Koba can still just be town, Skygazer still lean town, KKFC nulltown, Anix nulltown, Ircher lean scum, CCS town, orfhz town, DE70 town

Ircher's posting generally feels bad and never gives me the vibe he's solving. With Aureal I could be committing the fallacy of scumreading someone because their posting sucks in a way that isn't necessarily AI, but even with that in mind, the posts she makes here either don't do anything to really advance reads in the slightest or look kinda slimey. Bingle kinda felt bad at first but I think that was partially because I didn't like the things he was focusing on? He feels slightly solvey in these pages. orfhz is a bit too focused on Amway stuff for my taste but is engaging with it in a way that feels productive and town-motivated. Skygazer kinda just looks like a townie. CCS doesn't say that much substantial but feels like he's always coming from a town POV. Ranger kinda looks bad at first but then feels genuinely solvey. Cook's pop-ins felt generally pretty okay but I think that comes more from my preconceptions before looking at these pages than those posts in a vacuum. Anix's pop-in was wack in terms of what it says (DragonEater lim and nolim are pretty much the two least appealing options to me), but doesn't feel scummy. KKFC saying "im town" felt slightly good I guess?

If I had to sort it'd be like
DragonEater, Koba, CCS
orfhz
Skygazer, Bingle
Anix
KKFC
Ircher, Aureal

Which isn't actually very different from my thoughts on these players in general
I don't think I actually got much out of this

Just realized I forgot about Theta, got nothing meaningful there so right below KKFC I guess?

[Meuh]

VOTE: Aureal I think this flips scum less often than Klick, but is more informative and improves the game state more (and I think either are preferable to Cook, so I'll support either)

[Meuh]

Wait if Aureal is town and dies does that mean I get stuck with all that Amway shit

[Meuh]

I think it's like E-3 lol

[Meuh]

I wish I could vote for someone twice

[Meuh]

Koba I've been agreeing with your posting here but I don't think that one was very productive

[Meuh]

wrt Aureal complaining about the gamestate, I guess that post is less bad

[Meuh]

wrt Aureal complaining about the gamestate, I guess that post is less bad

I don't think I worded this post well at all:
Your post is less bad when having in mind that Aureal is complaining about the gamestate while not helping to (and actively avoiding/refusing) to make said gamestate better.
That's what I was trying to say.

[Meuh]

anix how does no lim remotely help us in this situation we have several caught scum it's not like we're going to mislim and lose tempo or something

The town has indeed been quite fortunate in catching scum, the only difficulty is nobody can quite agree who has been caught.

Could you vote for one of the wagons (Klick, Cook, Aureal) to help town figure that out?

[Meuh]

I've seen many days come down to last minute decisions, but I can't recall seeing an accidental nolim on this site ever. There's going to be a lim, probably on one of those three, and it'd be productive to give your input on which one it should be and help push it over the hammer threshold.

[Meuh]

Can you point to this hard proof? Have you made a case for why DragonEater has to be scum?

[Meuh]

and based on your current feelings, how would you rank the 3 wagons on which one you'd rather see go through?

[Meuh]

@AniX

2. I get that you can't read everything, but out of the things you read, what made you scumread RN in particular?

I'm comparing RN here to RN in the game I've played with him that just ended (viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=91199&user_select%5B%5D=37068)
RN is a LOT more self-assured there, and holds stronger beliefs. Now this may be partially an activity thing (he seems to have been busier during this game than in the one I'm referencing, so he'd have less of a grasp on the game) but I don't think it justifies a gap this big. The only thing he takes a strong stance on and shows confidence in is activity not being indicative of alignment, which is always a really easy point to make and specifically serves the purpose of defending himself here. The idea that the game doesn't "start" for him until day 2 and he has a hard time engaging on day 1 doesn't line up with him extensively engaging on day 1 in that other game. The fact he leans on this as extra justification (rather than just being busy) reeks in my eyes. He also just has out there takes and isn't afraid to push them in that game. He did a bunch of work to put pressure on the most widely townread player there, entered conflict a bunch (in a way a lot less passive than here, the only time he gets aggressive at all is when saying that activity is NAI)
A lot of RN's commentary in this game also seems to be NAI beliefs that he holds more broadly. The aforementioned "activity is NAI", his thoughts on massclaiming, points like these:

I don't think I agree with "this trait Town, this trait Scum." Game's more complex than that.

Also, I touched on this already but it feels like his posting is made with the purpose of appealing to others. This isn't always scum indicative (I do it as town sometimes when I wanna get read accurately) but I think for RN it is. In the other game, even under pressure, his posts were never made with the intent to make himself just look good. In the other game he's having independent ideas brought to the table and his posting is with the motivation for himself to solve the game and push his ideas forward. Here he just gets through the chore of making some very inoffensive comments on some posts and moves on from there. He's not posting for himself, and that probably just makes him scum.

This is my case on Klick here. It's been dismissed as just being due to RN's disengagement with the game but I do think there's meaningful things in his ISO, and to deny it is kind of just lazy.

AniX
Political Clout
Ranger
Theta Alpine
Save The Dragons
Aureal
Alisae
Deltabreedy
Random Nurse
camelCasedSnivy
DragonEater70
KatyKimFanClub
DkKoba
Bingle
Skygazer
Cook

I really hate this readlist, which is not surprising considering I think Ircher has been consistently scummy this game, but I'll bite:
Care to explain your reads?

Not really. I'll elaborate on why Cook is scum though (and

maybe

on why AniX is town later): the way she voted Drew in 683 and then continued voting Drew in 716 despite expressing a town read there was slimy. She then unvotes in 722, but it isn't because of her professed town read but because she is "bored of this wagon". That doesn't necessarily mean she is aligned with Drew (but she could be); however, it does come across as the kind of wishy-washy read that scum like to put out to avoid taking accountable stances. 815 and 817 are the kind of follow-ups I's expect scum to make. "Well, gee, I can't change the past, so you should just drop this line of attack." Like no, you should accept accountability for your actions rather than immediately going on the defensive.

The claim is scummy too. Apparently, she doesn't know what the modifier she provides before she provides it... but she learns what it is after she uses her action... I'm sorry, but I've seen very few roles that actually work that way. I don't think the moderators would actually design a role like that. Most roles are designed such that you either know what happens in advance, or it's random and you don't know what specifically happened. Thus, this seems like something Cook made up to give her enough room for maneuvering when she uses her actual ability.

1258 and 1282 were bad because they are just noise, don't actually accomplish their intended effect (if anything, it will just make the process slower due to spite), and are also ignorant of how Ranger explained she wasn't claiming immediately but would get to it when she could.

Here's a case on Cook.

Okay I guess Bingle did suspect you but you were acting as if were EVERYONE doing this and not just Bingle.

Both DK and I suspect Aureal.

Aureal still has not talked at all about why she needed to claim last, to the best of my knowledge, and her claim was more akin to scavenger hunt than a claim. I frankly don't see a town benefit to making your ability incredibly difficult to parse AND strongarming your way into being able to claim at the very end of the process when your role doesn't have any aspects that would change other people's claims.

I mean... It's pointing out the entire hypocrisy of Aureal's push on DE, not a cohesive case on it's own. She's literally saying he's scum for doing things she herself is doing.

The actual case on Aureal is that she's trying hard to leverage a townread from a role that isn't inherently townie and her play doesn't actually make sense if her role is town.

These Bingle posts sums up the bulk of the Aureal case succinctly.

the aureal role discussion has poisoned the thread and flipping aureal, who has shown they are not going to be an asset to us anyways, will help thread health *at worst*, even if they flip town so. (and there's plenty of reason for her to flip scum anyways, among the deflection, refusal to engage scumhunting requests, etc.)

This from Koba is also worth mentioning (and describes a lot of the more recent bad feelings about Aureal quite well)

[Meuh]

The constant invalidation of the pushes being made is very frustrating and explains why we're at about four weeks of this game with no one dead.

[Meuh]

and based on your current feelings, how would you rank the 3 wagons on which one you'd rather see go through?

It is really telling that you just keeping asking "Yeah, but which would you vote for if you had to" in response to "ok, I'm willing to vote, what are the cases" instead of, you know, just giving the cases.

Everyone has passive feelings on other players, and I don't think it was unreasonable for me to want to understand your feelings on that set of people. This is especially true considering they'd give me a better grasp on what you're thinking (and therefore would help me sort you), and that it's currently relevant since consolidation is needed. We as a town need to settle onto something sooner rather than later, rushing last minute is unsurprisingly not good!

[Meuh]

Okay if you think social reads aren't valuable here then we just fundamentally have misaligned approaches and we're not going to get anywhere.

[Meuh]

What's fun is that flips are win/win for me cause either we get scum or I get some cool new powers

[Meuh]

Actually wait is Aureal considered Amwayd herself? If I inherit her role, do I lose my main ability to get other people's abilities because I'm in the Amway? Could I leave it and regain that power? :0

[Meuh]

UNVOTE:

[Meuh]

I don't think Aureal is town over the reaction, but I also don't see why not to give Theta the cop check

[Meuh]

im still here i guess

I think you should accept the Amway offer higher on this page so Theta can get a cop check

[Meuh]

I'll happily vote Aureal, which will be E-1

[Meuh]

There are less than 36 hours left, if you wanted Cook as a vote, you had a month to do it

[Meuh]

VOTE: Aureal
Let's finally end this day
E-1

[Meuh]

and also because Meuh was all like "yeah I'll do what you asked Dragon, but I actually have no freaking clue what's the purpose of it but I did it anyway" which doesn't sound very genuine.

I wanted to do it because it sounded enjoyable, could give me stronger reads and was an opportunity to collaborate with you (who I think is town)!
I did have a clue what the purpose of it was, it's when I did it that I ended up unenthused because I didn't get much out of it. This is unsurprising, because not only had I already read the posts (unlike you, who I think hadn't read them yet), but I've been here for less long. Those posts were already like 15% of the ones that had been made since I replaced in and I didn't have held over feelings from earlier in the day, so the exercise of only considering them just wasn't a major shakeup of my perspective. It mostly made me pay more attention to posts I had glanced over, but as it turns out, those posts I glanced over weren't posts I found super AI, so I didn't end up with much new. :/

[Meuh]

meuh do you think its natural how aureal outed that supposedly you wouldn't inherit recruits? like it felt like a false assertation at best and TMI of you being town and that you wouldnt inherit the roles and an agenda to keep themselves alive to do what they want with the role, which i pray doesnt autowin the game at this point for scum.

I think it's consistent with the rest of her play
Like she's been focused on the impact of her role and on your perspective on the game, so if she sees you imply something about her role that she thinks you're wrong on, she'll 1000% call it out
Though I am curious on why she confidently asserted that I wouldn't inherit the recruits, I'd put it in a murky area myself on what I know about my power here.

[Meuh]

I actually feel like I

would

inherit the recruits which makes me extra curious there

[Meuh]

Ngl Koba just slipped by putting me as town in his fully informed readslist saying I’m scum like 24 hours later

they

[Meuh]

cook flipping tells us a lot more about other slots
cook if scum has an ability that could take out a roles capabilities near-permanently in some fashion
cook is probably scum based on their reactions to wagon and other things that people like ranger have mentioned

aureals flip would confirm that those in amway were not recruited though
we could prove that with two more recruits today to put us over the threshold of half the slots mafia if it was a mafia recruit
or the logic that an actual factional recruit would not be able to spread as fast as it did in a single day
seriously do you really think a list mod would design a role that could achieve wincon on day one

and you arent concerned if its a scum role that auto wins when X people trust it?

It's not

[Meuh]

I'm sorry but it's just not

[Meuh]

I can buy the role being scum and recruits helping the scum agenda but no, we were never getting a day 1 win for any team lmao

[Meuh]

I do agree that town!Aureal's power isn't a huge asset for us and scum!Aureal is a huge asset to the scum team. She should probably always be flipped because of this, especially since the sheer amount of PRs in this game probably makes it townsided overall.

[Meuh]

I do agree that town!Aureal's power isn't a huge asset for us and scum!Aureal is a huge asset to the scum team. She should probably always be flipped because of this, especially since the sheer amount of PRs in this game probably makes it townsided overall.

Is this assuming that there's some hidden information in the scum!Aureal Amway role that recruits don't have access to? I think I agree under that assumption.

I think that's pretty likely to be how it works if Aureal is scum, or at least is fairly likely to be the case, enough to make my above statement true.

[Meuh]

Actually even if Amway works as advertised, shutting down half of the player list's abilities in a setup with all townies being PRs is probably just bad

[Meuh]

oddly enough aureals role does allow a night one win for town potentially
if we were inclined to get power to three or four vigs and have good coordinated shots
but that would require solving the game that well in the first place at which point deserved

actually i do think we can sort aureal with cooks flip though
since i do not think that is svs with how aureal is being pushed

Yeah but Cook's town so we'll be back at square one

[Meuh]

Actually even if Amway works as advertised, shutting down half of the player list's abilities in a setup with all townies being PRs is probably just bad

I think it's the opposite actually. It will help simplify the game from a mechanics perspective because now we can rule out a portion of the playerbase from particular night actions. That being said, this isn't an argument to keep Aureal around, since all the recruiting has already been accomplished and can continue without her. She can be the only one with a fake Amway role really.

Simplifying it I suppose can make it easier to figure out? But concretely, town powers being used leads to pro-town outcomes, and we're tossing away the opportunity to get these pro-town outcomes by locking players to the Amway.

[Meuh]

Actually even if Amway works as advertised, shutting down half of the player list's abilities in a setup with all townies being PRs is probably just bad

I think it's the opposite actually. It will help simplify the game from a mechanics perspective because now we can rule out a portion of the playerbase from particular night actions. That being said, this isn't an argument to keep Aureal around, since all the recruiting has already been accomplished and can continue without her. She can be the only one with a fake Amway role really.

Simplifying it I suppose can make it easier to figure out? But concretely, town powers being used leads to pro-town outcomes, and we're tossing away the opportunity to get these pro-town outcomes by locking players to the Amway.

Has there been anyone who has agreed to be recruited that you think has a strong town ability?

I guess the selection of town players with weak roles to be Amwayd makes the negative impact of it less prominent, that's a fair point

[Meuh]

I wouldn't cry over a Cook lim, but I think Aureal is scummier and a lim there is best for the gamestate, and Klick (now Yimmy) flips scum a lot more often than Cook does

[Meuh]

I tend not to vore other players in general tbh
Pedit:

[Meuh]

Sure VOTE: Yimmy E-something

[Meuh]

I think most people have their own reasoning, my case on you has had a lot more negative than positive attention

[Meuh]

idk meuh. people (mostly anix) asked for the klick/rn case, like, a dozen times and yours was the only one that popped up in the last 20 pages. like i found ofhrz's case and that's it.

I think that's more because no one's making cases than because my case was particularly compelling (the main case against Cook I see pop up is one that was made before I even replaced in)
VOTE: Aureal if this happens I would be happy

[Meuh]

I think you and Meuh are actually tunneled.

And I say that because I predicted you might scumread the slot before I opened page 142 even though I TR'd Yimmy for 3521 on page 141.

I understand why Yimmy entering the game would make people feel good about that slot, but I don't think it's cause Yimmy is doing anything town indicative. I think it's because Yimmy is actually posting real content (which has been missing from that slot for a while) and makes content that people find much more palatable (which RN didn't do)
I don't find Yimmy's opening super scummy, but there's nothing there that dislodges my bad feelings on RN in the slightest

[Meuh]

Wowzie this might be my first time hammering intentionally (assuming I hammered cause I saw some pplz unvoted so who actually knows).

According to orfhz' votecount, that was E-2 that might also be slightly off though idk
We need a votecount though

[Meuh]

Yuuuup! I'm now a town temporary death miller, Koba was indeed town

[Meuh]

I inherited Aureal's role overnight but I couldn't actually do anything

[Meuh]

Or like I had it overnight after inheriting it at EoD, you get the point

[Meuh]

I think bingle could be traitor from the traitor role description

Hmm yeah that's true, the general traits there do overlap
Did Bingle claim before or after Koba did? I feel like that has an impact here

[Meuh]

I don’t think I’m clear in the slightest but I appreciate the sentiment

[Meuh]

I think bingle could be traitor from the traitor role description

Hmm yeah that's true, the general traits there do overlap
Did Bingle claim before or after Koba did? I feel like that has an impact here

bingle claimed in 1061
Koba claimed in 1220

Very likely scum then, woo
VOTE: Bingle

[Meuh]

I am town though…

[Meuh]

Yeah literally all my claim here means is that if Koba turns out to have actually been scum, then I was lying and also am scum
Which is uh not much info actually
Kind of an unfortunate NK for me

[Meuh]

I am town though…

I guarantee you're not.

what would you wager on that?

My life.

If Meuh flipped town I'd eat a death gladly.

Same for you.

Do you have an actual reason or are you just extremely tunnelled?

[Meuh]

Like you’ve got me double checking my role pm at this point

[Meuh]

How is it a clear on Meuh? Meuh could claim whatever she wants, couldn't she?

no? how?

Because words.. are just words? There's not currently anyone vouching for what Meuh claims, so I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion she is cleared here.

my townread on koba

But if I’m scum I can know Koba is town and just claim it
I would actually need to, because if I didn’t and Koba then got confirmed as town, I would literally be outed as scum

[Meuh]

How is it a clear on Meuh? Meuh could claim whatever she wants, couldn't she?

no? how?

Because words.. are just words? There's not currently anyone vouching for what Meuh claims, so I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion she is cleared here.

my townread on koba

But if I’m scum I can know Koba is town and just claim it
I would actually need to, because if I didn’t and Koba then got confirmed as town, I would literally be outed as scum

i don't get what you're saying?

Me claiming that Koba was town has 0 bearing on my alignment here and doesn’t clear me in the slightest because it’s something I would claim regardless of alignment?

[Meuh]

Yeah literally all my claim here means is that if Koba turns out to have actually been scum, then I was lying and also am scum
Which is uh not much info actually
Kind of an unfortunate NK for me

nah koba is town actually. claiming to backup his role would be a scumclaim if koba's role wasn't real

*their
I agreed with what you were saying when I first got the role, but a scum!Koba would never actually be fully confirmed as lying. The only way we can know Koba was actually lying is if all scum were to flip and Koba's flip was never corrected. ...but if all scum flip, the game is over
Koba CAN be confirmed to be town whenever we catch the actual scum with that role, but Koba CANNOT be confirmed to be scum because we can't just flip every mafia and then check back afterwards.
So claiming to backup Koba can never be a scumclaim here. NOT claiming to backup a town!Koba would be, however. If Koba and I were both scum, nothing would stop me from fake-claiming the backup here.

[Meuh]

I was gonna emphasize Koba being town but I guess that doesn't mean much to you here

[Meuh]

I was gonna emphasize Koba being town but I guess that doesn't mean much to you here

Wait I misread Ranger's post, disregard

[Meuh]

Is there any reason scum would want Koba's flip to happen sooner rather than later?

[Meuh]

Saying Theta lied in regards to recruit being an action feels uncharitable and I don't get the impression that Theta lied here, regardless of alignment
I think Bingle does just flip scum here

[Meuh]

Reminder that I’m confirming Koba was town here so a scum Koba world also means I’m scum

[Meuh]

Reminder that I’m confirming Koba was town here so a scum Koba world also means I’m scum

FWIW if Koba was scum they were also a godfather.

I don’t think Koba was scum.

The godfather thing applies to a cop check. I inherited Koba’s role, that’s not something that’d be affected by Koba being godfather.

[Meuh]

I inherited DE's role (that vig shot was uh not great)
Did not get Theta's role, so Theta's death is considered to have happened before DE's death? Not sure why

[Meuh]

Yeah good idea, just did!

[Meuh]

Okay yeah, DE's death happened after Theta's

[Meuh]

My understanding was that I didn't, but I'll ask
I'm still a cop, pretty sure it'd reset when I got the role and I don't think there's any vanilla townies in the game anyways, so I think I'm straight up a cop until a townie dies

[Meuh]

My understanding was that I didn't, but I'll ask
I'm still a cop, pretty sure it'd reset when I got the role and I don't think there's any vanilla townies in the game anyways, so I think I'm straight up a cop until a townie dies

a vanilla townie, not just any townie

[Meuh]

Though I'd end up losing my cop powers on any townie dying anyways since I'm a backup

[Meuh]

Wait if you turn in Vanilla Townie, do you lose your previous role too.

It's complex asf

I don't. Though I don't think there are any VTs in the game so I doubt it'll matter here

[Meuh]

What is it

[Meuh]

Wait is that not hammer?

[Meuh]

[Meuh]

No result.

[Meuh]

Did get some baked goods though

[Meuh]

And am now Enchant's role

[Meuh]

I've gotta be the least useful eternal backup there could ever be in a setup full of PRs

[Meuh]

I targeted you, Meuh, with the last of my abilities: the role delayer, so your result should be coming in the mail tonight.

Ooh, interesting. Won’t claim my target then, so scum can’t play around it

[Meuh]

I mean I'm also straight up conf town if Anix' ability affects factional abilities (I don't see any reason why not?)

[Meuh]

Guess we'll know once Anix checks back in

[Meuh]

Any action a player I target takes the night I target them is resolved the following night. Minds more versed in mafia semantics than me can tell me if this language is commonly used to impact factional actions.

I'd say ask the mod to specifically clarify if factional actions get delayed if you haven't? I feel like it would be explicitly stated if it did delay them, but we can confirm 100% so I can be locktown

[Meuh]

Any action a player I target takes the night I target them is resolved the following night. Minds more versed in mafia semantics than me can tell me if this language is commonly used to impact factional actions.

I'd say ask the mod to specifically clarify if factional actions get delayed if you haven't? I feel like it would be explicitly stated if it did delay them, but we can confirm 100% so I can be locktown

If it didn't delay them* you get the point

[Meuh]

if youre townbinning anis meuh is also confirmed

I mean there's only one scum left, right?
If AniX town -> telling the truth, so I'm also town
If AniX scum -> no space for other scum, so I'm town
Someone's read on AniX doesn't really hold weight on my own alignment at this point

[Meuh]

VOTE: Ircher

[Meuh]

What do I do with my baked goods here?

[Meuh]

Then I can probably do that

[Meuh]

Can we hammer Ircher? I don't think we have much else to do today

[Meuh]

gg! Thanks for modding xyzzy and Korina

[Meuh]

Wondering if scum should get inherent extra kill power built into the setup, since town power spam makes the usual kill power advantage scum have kind of null
But also these scum roles were pretty weak so idk
Also not like this game needed to be super balanced, that wasn’t really the point

Pedit: I didn’t play scum super well in that marathon