mystery box of silver 15: i'm killing hostages (negotiated)

[DkKoba]

tommy edman

[DkKoba]

fun fact, tommy edman played today and hit 0 homeruns. very boring

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Pooky

i have seen enough

[DkKoba]

honk if you think koba's entrance was scummy

can you explain what is scummy abt it?

[DkKoba]

tommy edman

fun fact, tommy edman played today and hit 0 homeruns. very boring

VOTE: Pooky

i have seen enough

which of these posts gives you a scummy impression? because really, I think u are making things up

[DkKoba]

The posts are scummy tbh VOTE: Koba

no they aren't?

[DkKoba]

I can't even make up a fake argument to play devils advocate to see how that can be construed as scummy beyond the fact I wasn't active, and that wasn't the argument, it was the posts themselves. so either admit you 2 are full of shit, or explain the how.

[DkKoba]

{Doctor Drew}
{Meuh}
{Alisae}
{MUSHSHAGANA}
{DKKoba}
{Skygazer}

why is your reads list upside down and why are you voting your second strongest town read

honk if you think koba's entrance was scummy

VOTE: skygazer

[DkKoba]

also the reason I think

koba is town

is because they know enough about setup and they are ruthlessly good at abusing setup quirks so the fact they didnt lead off with the speedrun strat is p lolscumclaimy to me

also popping in and claiming they've seen enough from me when im spamming the shit out of this thread is pretty ? like id imagine if they were town they'd at least be fighting me for thread control instead of just popping in saying three words and disappearing on me

im town huh?

also it was my birthday weekend, i decided to have fun offline instead, popped in when high for a bit, saw ur posts and didnt like em, and then popped off.

activity tells are shit, u know that

[DkKoba]

im p sure skygazer is trying to piggyback a currently consensus wagon on me alongside meuh,

ranger and pooky scum's best tools rn huh

[DkKoba]

piggybacking a wagon that i was on since page one

so u think my posts were scummy then?

[DkKoba]

like the most obvious play is to just speedrun the shit out of this game to increase the homer to lim lim ratio

i wasnt going to say this broken strat because i think this setup is broken but then i remember schadd trolling me when I was scum with a "disloyal vig" in a game with 2 protectives and the mafia literally had no way to block the vig or anything and I remembered Schadd just makes townsided nonsense setups and we should abuse it as much as possible.

im p sure i addressed this pregame even but while speedrunning is optimal, it is contrary to the reason for signing up to not prolong the game so we can see some homeruns. i signed up for a theme, i hate nightless (plus if the objectively scumminest person seems to live over someone townier it is a red check p much)

[DkKoba]

ya

wild that it took you so long to even mention it then, esp when multiple players it seems talked about me in my absence. i would think if that was the case that drunk you would have said something about it.

so yeah, calling BS, this vote sticks.

[DkKoba]

objectively scummy

am i the only one who read thru the mechanic b4 signing up for the game

[DkKoba]

/out sorry, I will prob pause from mafia for a while when the school year starts

its a lot more chill game that is meant to take a lot of time! whats the point of signing up if you arent going to wait for these home runs?

not me pulling out the pregame receipts for pooky

[DkKoba]

nah skyg is town

and what if ur wrong and u wont reach it bc you refuse to put your reasoning out on display

(blank reads without any sort of context are just like poo poo to me when i disagree with them esp bc what am i supposed to do?)

idk i think ranger/pooky are the main 2 that have a genuine read on me even tho its cringe and the rest are just piggybacking to some degree, at least 1 scum bc I'm pretty sure meuh/skygazer has at least 1

[DkKoba]

ya

wild that it took you so long to even mention it then, esp when multiple players it seems talked about me in my absence. i would think if that was the case that drunk you would have said something about it.

so yeah, calling BS, this vote sticks.

drunk me likes shitposting more than embarassing herself with potentially bad reads

well i have an explaination you cant give and thats that you randed scum and giving fake reads is not under your drunk skillset and thats why they didnt exist.

now to skim for drunkposting in all of your town games

[DkKoba]

1. Pick 1 universal scum read
2. force that player to make Objectively Scummy posts only
3. wait for a homerun
4. ???
5. Profit

game solved?

ok i kinda had this kinda plan myself but i never thought about forcing them to make bad posts

[DkKoba]

if we're talking about pregame signup posts then

Oh wait you're choosing scummiest townies... interesting, in that case I will hold off on thoughts pending my alignment roll :p

looks very scummy cuz you didnt actually say your thoughts when you entered thread and you pretty much said you would

yellow m&m

[DkKoba]

tbh i got whiffs of town koba in that exchange. amused that they're probably currently researching my drunken ramblings

no i went to prepare for a pokemon showdown tournament game which im playing in like a minute

[DkKoba]

my opponent isn't challenging me im about to call Act fr

[DkKoba]

what format and opponent?
what was the disqualify timer btw

they challenged me soon after, i won 2-1

and its DS Cup randbats, i made a mistake bc gen 4-6 randbats are horrible tbh

[DkKoba]

Oh. That was Koba. Koba had quite a wagon and hadn't posted since it started rolling. Koba posted, we can pay attention to other things now.

Seems a bit early to go "Yeah we can stop focusing on Koba now" if you ask this one.

Why?

[DkKoba]

I ask because you are currently voting someone who is one of the primary people pushing my slot in an active way

[DkKoba]

I ask because you are currently voting someone who is one of the primary people pushing my slot in an active way

rvs lol

VOTE: HPE lol

[DkKoba]

wish granted to not stop focus on me, monkey paw curls and makes you part of a thunderdome with me instead

[DkKoba]

it has come to my attention that i might not be playing scummy enough so i just wanna say that i think iavh is a mason

ayo schadd you see this shit

[DkKoba]

pooky wanna tunnel eachother for like 10 pages and then end up townreading eachother by the end anyways

[DkKoba]

is it bad that I kinda haven't read a single thing that slot has said

afraid to go look and townread the slot and feel compulsion to defend it

[DkKoba]

is it bad that I kinda haven't read a single thing that slot has said

afraid to go look and townread the slot and feel compulsion to defend it

consider perhaps that you are more likely to glaze over scum posts

nah I literally haven't seen the guys name

[DkKoba]

Oh the guy is voting me rofl

[DkKoba]

Maybe I will adventure into their iso tonight

[DkKoba]

ngl reading the ofr iso i kinda get it but i also think its not enough info to independently say with certainty its a scum slot. def PoEable tho

[DkKoba]

why do i always have to have higher standards placed on my play everytime i play

this is the exhausting shit that made me quit playing as much in the first place

now at least one of yall voting me is actually town and its v annoying bc its an extremely uninteractive wagon that does nothing

yeah im playing this game more chill bc of the theme and assume its a long term thing. whoop de doo, doesn't mean i can't be town.

anyways if u really think im scum theres 100% chance theres mafia on my wagon bc scum koba isnt dumb and positions themselves well. i wanna see who thinks which of their fellow voters are just there for the sweet nightless cred, which is way more compelling to not get caught out with a tommy edman homerun when they are the scummiest looking slot and dont end up dying.

[DkKoba]

i just wanna fucking take a game chill and no i fucking get wagoned everytime i do this.

give me fucking space

[DkKoba]

i am literally one of the most interactive player when it comes to explaining things and expressing my thoughts and im just getting cold shoulder as if theres a red check on me lmao

no i will not start playing more hardcore bc u want me to, i want to take this game slow thank u. if you really dont want to play with me that bad tho just vote me out whatever.

[DkKoba]

meh hot take but i actually kinda think the orfhrz slot is town but i probably wouldnt miss it over others.

would be down to box it in for a tommy edman homer

[DkKoba]

Pooky, you cannot pocket me, not least because 3/5ths of me did not exist before late 2022, and Ad (the other one who did) has all the emotional depth of a puddle of concrete.

Did pooky do something that makes you think they're pocketing you?

VOTE: ranger

like the most obvious play is to just speedrun the shit out of this game to increase the homer to lim lim ratio

i wasnt going to say this broken strat because i think this setup is broken but then i remember schadd trolling me when I was scum with a "disloyal vig" in a game with 2 protectives and the mafia literally had no way to block the vig or anything and I remembered Schadd just makes townsided nonsense setups and we should abuse it as much as possible.

I think pooky is town

Why is the dr. drew town for instance?

It's weak, but he vibes town so far.

This is basically a non answer

like i kinda like the vibe behind these posts tbh and their point about ranger makes me wanna go into ranger now

[DkKoba]

oh there r 5 mafia and its nightless this is ez just find the most obvious ones and the rest will fall

HPE is one for me imo im still confident on that


alisae, ranger, meuh also some degree of meh

regrettably i think pooky is actually town, iamveryhappy i think i got town vibes from some shit earlier
dannfloor might be town but i need to scrutinize to b sure

o ya mush is probably the most obvious town slot here tbh

ok ngl MT/Pooky kinda feel like they did in masochist mafia where they are just both town i kinda am pensive on MT


most of yall have like no good content step up, this post alone outpaces over half of u

[DkKoba]

why do i always have to have higher standards placed on my play everytime i play

take a page out of my book

but i didnt rand mafia like u

[DkKoba]

i actually have to play the game to advance my wincon smh

[DkKoba]

HPE is one for me imo im still confident on that

you have done literally nothing to explain this read on me lmao

tbh i thought i did but the short of it is ur play is super reactive and i got similar vibes from ur TM play (i think i double checked it)
in my defense i made this read i think during my bday weekend and i was basically not sober for 3 days straight

[DkKoba]

go into ranger then

there is really nothing to say, the 11 posts speak for themselves.

[DkKoba]

My Koba vote was RVS, but ah.....not switching anytime soon.

seems arbitrary given your reads thus far

[DkKoba]

My Koba vote was RVS, but ah.....not switching anytime soon.

seems arbitrary given your reads thus far

You mean all my reads about how I love slam metal and baseball?

Or about Sky and Pooky being town?

Are independent of my read on you.

very interactive play, thank you.

ur definitely not contributing to the problem

[DkKoba]

based on literally anything you have posted and my own perception of the game, your reads are very arbitrary. prove me otherwise.

[DkKoba]

ok funny moment but i think ranger probably not rly that scummy after a little meta dive bc all they posted for a little bit in a town game was those readslists lmao


regardless,

VOTE: Alisae

[DkKoba]

My Koba vote was RVS, but ah.....not switching anytime soon.

seems arbitrary given your reads thus far

You mean all my reads about how I love slam metal and baseball?

Or about Sky and Pooky being town?

Are independent of my read on you.

very interactive play, thank you.

ur definitely not contributing to the problem

I was being a bit snarky, but my point was I really haven't given many serious reads(the Sky and Pooky ones being the exception). So what was so arbitrary of my read on you?

Just don't like your tone, and blaming being drunk for a bad read(even though you made the post about HPE this evening and didn't explain it more until called out about it by HPE)

not drunk, the other legal thing

also why is it a bad read ? i literally had reasoning for it, just bc i cannot remember the details on how i reached it doesnt mean its a bad read lmao

[DkKoba]

My Koba vote was RVS, but ah.....not switching anytime soon.

seems arbitrary given your reads thus far

You mean all my reads about how I love slam metal and baseball?

Or about Sky and Pooky being town?

Are independent of my read on you.

very interactive play, thank you.

ur definitely not contributing to the problem

I was being a bit snarky, but my point was I really haven't given many serious reads(the Sky and Pooky ones being the exception). So what was so arbitrary of my read on you?

Just don't like your tone, and blaming being drunk for a bad read(even though you made the post about HPE this evening and didn't explain it more until called out about it by HPE)

not drunk, the other legal thing

also why is it a bad read ? i literally had reasoning for it, just bc i cannot remember the details on how i reached it doesnt mean its a bad read lmao

Didn't say it was bad per se, just that you felt you had to explain it when only called out by the subject of it.

Always, weed is overrated.....get in the whiskey pocket.

oh so ur mindset is that u shouldnt explain stuff when asked. explains a ton tbh

[DkKoba]

hi ofhrz do you have any other townreads besides pooky

Dann feels like he's asking questions to actually sort me

Koba didn't have to come to my defense if they were scum. We have people already calling for my lim (...?), and while they still have the bigger wagon, theirs isn't growing unlike mine

they r going to call us partnered or say im whiteknighting u dw

at least if i flip, going after u requires actual reevaluation unless people wanna turn on autopilot for no reason

[DkKoba]

{PookyTheMagicalBear}
{Doctor Drew}
{Skygazer}
{Meuh}
{Alisae}
{The Buldge}
{Morning Tweet}
{MUSHSHAGANA}
{iamveryhappy}
{Dannflor}
{RCEnigma}
{HighPrincessErinys}
{xyzzy}
{ofrhz}
{DKKoba}

P9.

why is meuh so much higher than me

[DkKoba]

actually looking this over, wtf are these reads lists


link to actual in game stuff pls

[meta]hi schadd just in case ranger is town, the reads lists that ranger has presented are objectively pretty scummy in nature, they are supposedly from early pages, however Meuh is somehow top 4 despite only having 4 posts and are similar in content to mine, however I was put at the bottom vs meuh. god bless tommy edman[/meta]

[DkKoba]

ranger stop reading, explain your progression on my slot. now.

[DkKoba]

ok im just gonna park VOTE: ranger

this game's vibes are insufferable bc there is so much bad faith going around, impossible standards for slots being tunneled(yeah maybe think about whether the person you are pushing, if you applied the standards you are giving them to anyone else, how would you feel about that slot?), and no interactivity with anyone


also drew quite frankly, i am very insulted that you called my genuine reasoning not explaining anything.
the fuck am i supposed to say? i gave my genuine reason. accept it or dont, dont accuse me of not explaining anything just because you failed to comprehend what i said

[DkKoba]

ranger stop reading, explain your progression on my slot. now.

Recency bias. I've not seen xyzzy post more recently to see their scumminess. I hadn't seen HighPrincessErinys post recently to see their scumminess. I did see you and ofrhz post. I also have seen the interactions of you with other slots, and the caliber of the players who scumread you, as well as their cases. In particular, I believe Pooky's was good.

xyzzy will likely plummet down the moment I see them post again and am reminded why I put them so low.

there is no case against me

[DkKoba]

"zomg why is koba not pushing for an optimal speedrun strat" is a really shit case lmao wtf

[DkKoba]

like u clearly havent actually read what pooky has said bc he didnt actually have a scumread when he initially pushed me LMAO so wondering where the trust came from

[DkKoba]

koba is like outted scum atp for real

koba is like outted scum atp for real

i know this looks like a read but if its wrong its scummy af so I have to go for it

also the reason I think koba is town is because they know enough about setup and they are ruthlessly good at abusing setup quirks so the fact they didnt lead off with the speedrun strat is p lolscumclaimy to me

also popping in and claiming they've seen enough from me when im spamming the shit out of this thread is pretty ? like id imagine if they were town they'd at least be fighting me for thread control instead of just popping in saying three words and disappearing on me

ranger, please explain to me why you thought this was a good case

[DkKoba]

lol talking to a bunch of walls

[DkKoba]

ngl i also dont get the strong townread on pooky bc pooky has not towntold yet

[DkKoba]

Hi Ranger, would you like to put your read of me into words?

I know nothing of you, yet you look like scum.

vague, no evidence, also counter argument, their posts are townier than several players you put in your upper half, including alisae for instance:

Pooky, you cannot pocket me, not least because 3/5ths of me did not exist before late 2022, and Ad (the other one who did) has all the emotional depth of a puddle of concrete.

Did pooky do something that makes you think they're pocketing you?

VOTE: ranger

like the most obvious play is to just speedrun the shit out of this game to increase the homer to lim lim ratio

i wasnt going to say this broken strat because i think this setup is broken but then i remember schadd trolling me when I was scum with a "disloyal vig" in a game with 2 protectives and the mafia literally had no way to block the vig or anything and I remembered Schadd just makes townsided nonsense setups and we should abuse it as much as possible.

I think pooky is town

Why is the dr. drew town for instance?

It's weak, but he vibes town so far.

This is basically a non answer

like i kinda like the vibe behind these posts tbh and their point about ranger makes me wanna go into ranger now

[DkKoba]

why is meuh so much higher than me

Meuh naturally vibes as town.

You radiate scum.

which posts radiate scum?

[DkKoba]

VOTE: ranger
yeah im not buying this actually

[DkKoba]

link to actual in game stuff pls

Nah. That's effort. If asked about a change in reads between two pages, I'm happy to share, within my capacities. Otherwise, don't see the point.

this post radiates scummy excuses

[DkKoba]

can't explain ur reads bc theyre not real and just arbitrary tbh

[DkKoba]

im gonna turbo pooky next if ranger flips red and pooky isnt on that wagon

[DkKoba]

there is no case against me

There's enough of one for me.

I think your posting's scum. My reason's gut. I don't need more, tbh.

"hi im scum, my read is completely made up and you caught me with my pants down! Whoops!"

[DkKoba]

like u clearly havent actually read what pooky has said bc he didnt actually have a scumread when he initially pushed me LMAO so wondering where the trust came from

His read matched mine, that was enough to trust it. Reads build off each other.

"i piled onto a town wagon and idk how to explain it bc i made up my read"

[DkKoba]

speaking of tommy edman, he plays for the next 4 days, joy

[DkKoba]

ranger, please explain to me why you thought this was a good case

It tracked, I saw you scum independently, so I believe it has merit.

sounds extremely uncritical and scummy

[DkKoba]

393 and 394 are just tautologies

"Why do you scumread me"
"Because you look like scum"

ya failing to be able to explain where your read came from is just ... inexperienced play or scum

[DkKoba]

their posts are townier than several players you put in your upper half, including alisae for instance:

The posts you say are town, I see the opposite on. For Alisae, I just don't think eir scum this game. Honestly hard to put words to that read. It's fairly solid, yet indescribable. I've reasons, just not ones I know how to explain rn.

ok well when ur wagon starts building bc your reads look very bogus u can come back and do your assignment

[DkKoba]

bc YOUR pov is so much different from my own POV in how i am seeing these slots and either u are TMIing or u just arbitrarily assigned those reads. seems like an anti-spew method to not explain so its not clear which it is

[DkKoba]

maybe ranger is just chilling in the scum PT with me and we're trolling you

im getting very trolled, by looking a lot better in this interaction, yes

[DkKoba]

which posts radiate scum?

Honestly, all of them. (I really hate that response, yet it applies.) Everything I've seen has made me think scum, not town. It's possible I'm biased. Still, I see what I see and I don't see anything town about you rn.

thats bullshit tbh, now i think i got it. pooky told u to tunnel me no matter what in scum pt.

no need for elaboration, pooky likes to openly gloat sometimes.

[DkKoba]

bc YOUR pov is so much different from my own POV in how i am seeing these slots and either u are TMIing or u just arbitrarily assigned those reads. seems like an anti-spew method to not explain so its not clear which it is

imagine claiming the POV of someone scumreading you is very different from your POV

like rofl what even is this

do u think all of rangers reads are preflipped off me then?

[DkKoba]

do u think ur case against me was that good that ranger should be citing it as a good case?

[DkKoba]

the more BS high standards you try to throw at me, the harder i will throw them back at your weak posts

[DkKoba]

can't explain ur reads bc theyre not real and just arbitrary tbh

Depends on perspective, honestly. I make snap judgement calls and place people accordingly. Anything can change at any time. None of my reads are particularly solid, not even the scumread on you. I don't see the town vibes from you and see consistent scum vibes. Despite this, you're far weaker a scumread than players I've scumread in other games who I

did

see the townvibes of. There's players I've seen as more town than you who I scumread more than you. In that sense they're very arbitrary.

This said, you've seen my games before. I know you have. You're pretending you haven't. So rn, you're being disingenuous. You already know the process I operate by.

what is different this game from ur scumgames?

and no, you actually do detail reads in your towngames, dont BS me.

[DkKoba]

I think the quality of the case doesn't have much to do with whether the target of the case is mafia or town

I'm not here to get my PhD

this is a mafia game on the internet and I don't even think it's that serious to begin with

if ur case is poo poo in basis then its no better than throwing darts

[DkKoba]

i am going to become the joker

[DkKoba]

viewtopic.php?t=66605&user_select%5B%5D=26805 ranger scumgame, u can see they do the same silly "just trust me" reads where they just say call things "towny" or "scummy"

[DkKoba]

Ranger feels NAI at best to me, I'd want the top tier in 930 explained

Peregrine's play has impressed. I don't see any hints of being informed on aspects of the game, any agenda, or any scum motive/intent behind their posts. I do see signs of solving. I believe the claim, and think it +town.

WhemeStar's been looking progressively more +town as the game unfolds. I've seen evolution in WhemeStar's thoughts and contributions, producing nuanced posts.

Here There Be Dragons are both displaying promising approaches in their perspective. While both are longstanding players capable of faking their contributions thusfar as scum, I've vibed with their...well, vibes, fairly consistently.

an example of town ranger actually capable of elaborating on a read

[DkKoba]

curious that since my activity sharply picked up, not a single peep from people on my wagon on whether the new evidence has changed anything for them

some are just afk! others im just p sure are scum tbh

[DkKoba]

ok this is gonna be a wild read from my own perspective but I'm pretty sure pooky is mafia bc of the way it feels he is tunneling me.

when he has tunneled me when i have been mafia as town, i can actually feel he believes his read and isnt just reaction testing me or anything like that. i do not remember him ever misreading me longterm when we are both town or even really getting tunneled when he is town and i am town, moreso the opposite


while like getting flashbacks to 2020 coalition pooky tunneling me this is how it feels i think and i feel i have grasped the difference? like its bc it feels like a reaction test at times and is super lazy and all that. granted in coalition it eventually turned into something more srs and thats when i backed off but i should have known.


now to convince 9 other ppl that lazy openwolfing pooky is scum[challenge: impossible] (if that pokemon game is anything to judge by)

[DkKoba]

what is different this game from ur scumgames?

I don't recall claiming there was anything different.

I recall stating you're familiar with my play enough to know your accusations are nonsense.

I'm unable to judge the difference between my games. That's reserved exclusively for others. I've a right to intervene when someone is deliberately and disingenuously pushing me on something they know is playstyle. I casually tryhard. Minimal effort. A lot of what I do is subject to both whims and rl restrictions. If I don't feel like doing something, I won't. If I do, I will.

i provided proof my accusations are not nonsense, burden of proof is on you, dont try to deflect

[DkKoba]

curious that since my activity sharply picked up, not a single peep from people on my wagon on whether the new evidence has changed anything for them

some are just afk! others im just p sure are scum tbh

i already told you what i need from you to change my mind

then if im the mayor, you ought to be sheeping me today, not voting me

[DkKoba]

i get scum... i live, i kill town, i die.

easy enough, eh?

[DkKoba]

viewtopic.php?t=66605&user_select%5B%5D=26805 ranger scumgame, u can see they do the same silly "just trust me" reads where they just say call things "towny" or "scummy"

Nice try. That was a game from nine years ago. I'm quite literally a different person now. While I imagine there's aspects of my scumgame from then which survived the transition, it's certainly not the argument you're making it out to be and you know it.

old meta is still relevant meta.

i have pulled games from longer ago to prove my points and have seen success, your playstyle hasnt even drastically changed since then, so dont try to make this argument.

if you didnt do the reads per page thing, for instance, i would have completely discarded it. there were enough parallels that it is relevant.

mafia universe is super slow, but ctrl-v Violet in my Finale game for season 9 MU champs, i use 2016 scum meta (in a different language, no less) to solidify a correct read on a townie.

[DkKoba]

an example of town ranger actually capable of elaborating on a read

I don't recall stating I'm incapable of elaborating on reads. I certainly can. I'm never obligated to.

you certainly are obligated to elaborate if you respect the other players in the game

[DkKoba]

curious that since my activity sharply picked up, not a single peep from people on my wagon on whether the new evidence has changed anything for them

some are just afk! others im just p sure are scum tbh

i already told you what i need from you to change my mind

then if im the mayor, you ought to be sheeping me today, not voting me

so name names

u r a big bear and can figure out who

[DkKoba]

ranger, if u are town, u are handicapping us by refusing to lay out your thoughts and forcing people to conclude that ur reads are just not from a town POV. the number 1 way to read people is to examine their process.

refuse to give a process? we must fill in the blanks the best we can and see how logical things seem.


i am rereading a game to find a post and i noticed i tunneled someone who was town who was being annoyingly also vague and not explaining shit and it ended up with them getting miskilled. granted, i fucked that game later myself but that player really did 0 favors by not explaining their process and allowing us to criticize it and discuss it.

the point of discussing the why is to see if the why is a good reason and if there might be a different conclusion to be had potentially etc.
just saying ur read and not wavering bc the evidence can only point to 1 thing and u wont share that evidence leads to a very autopilot game that relies on players being accurate consistently from the start.


(also like ofrhz said, this is like that circular mode of "X is scummy bc I found X scummy!"

(also i am struggling to find the post about that player i looked deep for meta lol)

[DkKoba]

i provided proof my accusations are not nonsense, burden of proof is on you, dont try to deflect

I certainly can. It's called the vast majority of my games, rather than cherrypicking whatever suits your fancy to support your argument.

I've given plenty of nonanswers before as town, and plenty of reasons before as scum. In fact, were I to actually compile my past game history, the vast majority of nonanswers would be from town and the vast majority of reasons would be from scum. I certainly could prove this. I see no reason to when literally anyone who's played with me (yourself included) knows it, and could research it themselves if they cared to.

I've been called out on seemingly-random changes in my readslists before. When called out, my response in all past games has been the same; if a change between them catches your eye, ask what shifted and I'll happily share. I'm not going to effort by explaining the change otherwise.

i want to see what YOU think is important to explain. of course people are currently giving you what you want, lets see where thread sentiment goes now that i see im not the only one that may have a perspective that you match your scumgames closer. granted, maybe HPE is hopping on bc you are town and its convenient, but I myself verified these games and know that i lean that they tell the truth regardless of alignment.


anyways i have reasons beyond that that align with your scumgame. just for you, i wont explain. it just matches better to your scumgame.

[DkKoba]

Koba bringing up an ancient ass game pings super weird when they most likely have much more recent experience with scum!Ranger but otherwise this one still doesn't super get the Koba wagon.

i literally did this with Ythan in team mafia, i will always find the most recent game I can. The most recent Ranger scumgame was 2016. i must use that game then. I have no other choice.

[DkKoba]

imagine pulling meta from a game 7 years ago and claiming its accurate this is wild

it is accurate for a baseline at minimum. people's playstyles dont change that drastically unless its the difference between a young teenager and adult

[DkKoba]

yea ofc theres no point looking at town games when you have an agenda amirite

yea ofc theres no point in reading my posts when you have an agenda amirite

Ranger feels NAI at best to me, I'd want the top tier in 930 explained

Peregrine's play has impressed. I don't see any hints of being informed on aspects of the game, any agenda, or any scum motive/intent behind their posts. I do see signs of solving. I believe the claim, and think it +town.

WhemeStar's been looking progressively more +town as the game unfolds. I've seen evolution in WhemeStar's thoughts and contributions, producing nuanced posts.

Here There Be Dragons are both displaying promising approaches in their perspective. While both are longstanding players capable of faking their contributions thusfar as scum, I've vibed with their...well, vibes, fairly consistently.

an example of town ranger actually capable of elaborating on a read

[DkKoba]

old meta is still relevant meta.

It certainly can be. I'm not one to judge. However, selecting meta from one of my first scumgames onsite rather than my most recent one is sure an interesting choice. I can literally point to evidence from that game of my play this game being nothing remotely like my play here. There's certainly some similarities, which have survived the test of time. Still, arguing as you have is akin to saying "Ranger made repeatedly changing readslists in an old scumgame, Ranger is making repeatedly changing readslists in this game, therefore Ranger is scum".

While I've no say on how players judge my meta, I can certainly point the egregious nature of cherrypicking specific aspects from my oldest scumgame and arguing those playstyle elements being present indicate I'm scum here. I was quite literally, not figuratively, literally a different person back then. I remember precious little of my Blitz-era game days, because I wasn't playing them. Our system has undergone massive changes. Pretending those can be ignored and cherrypicking one instance of a vague similarity is disingenuous, and we know you know better than that.

i search for scumgames by looking for scum PTs, i ignored the purgatory game bc that is not mafia

[DkKoba]

yea ofc theres no point looking at town games when you have an agenda amirite

yea ofc theres no point in reading my posts when you have an agenda amirite

Ranger feels NAI at best to me, I'd want the top tier in 930 explained

Peregrine's play has impressed. I don't see any hints of being informed on aspects of the game, any agenda, or any scum motive/intent behind their posts. I do see signs of solving. I believe the claim, and think it +town.

WhemeStar's been looking progressively more +town as the game unfolds. I've seen evolution in WhemeStar's thoughts and contributions, producing nuanced posts.

Here There Be Dragons are both displaying promising approaches in their perspective. While both are longstanding players capable of faking their contributions thusfar as scum, I've vibed with their...well, vibes, fairly consistently.

an example of town ranger actually capable of elaborating on a read

thats cherrypicked

does town ranger elaborate on every read she has ever made?

i dont care bc if u are town here u dont even respect my arguments bc you arent even considering them or reading things I say seriously.

[DkKoba]

you certainly are obligated to elaborate if you respect the other players in the game

I respect the other players in the game.

I respect my time and life more than those of others in a forum mafia game. My obligation is to my life first and a game only as I can.

explaining a natural thought takes very little time.

i would think your page by page readslist method takes more effort than just having thoughts


like what are u unable to verbalize any sort of thought, like "oh this led me to this"

its antithetical to the game of mafia and u are basically throwing as town by doing this to make your scum games easier. u want me to figure out which of your changes might gleam some AI information. but when i pressed you for reasoning on why you read me your answers were lame things like : "all the posts", "radiate scum", etc. all generic and bogus reasons.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: DkKoba
This one apologizes but that is such a weird fucking move to pull.

what is weird and why is it scummy

[DkKoba]

It's dawning on me that this back and forth is doing nothing for the game at hand, this little song and dance has gotten boring now.

At least make it look like a real fight at this point.

youre not helping with comments like this, go away unless you have something to contribute

[DkKoba]

im trying to push people to explain their thought processes

it is NOT my fault that people want to fight back against it

[DkKoba]

i dont care bc if u are town here u dont even respect my arguments bc you arent even considering them or reading things I say seriously.

ok koba correct me if I'm misunderstanding you ok?


your argument is that ranger is mafia because she is not elaborating on her read on you and if she were town then she would elaborate on her read on you.

for your evidence you've provided one example of ranger!town in a completed game elaborating on a read.

now for that evidence to be conclusive - it would also have to be true that ranger!town in every completed game would have to elaborate on all of her reads[or reads when asked]

now if you think that's true we can go on to the next step of asking ranger if she's ever not elaborated on a read as town in a completed game.

Any issues?

ur not clearing ur partner off a gotcha, sorry. that is not my only reasoning

my scumread reasoning meets higher standards than others on me, so frankly idc

[DkKoba]

It's dawning on me that this back and forth is doing nothing for the game at hand, this little song and dance has gotten boring now.

At least make it look like a real fight at this point.

youre not helping with comments like this, go away unless you have something to contribute

I am contributing, this is such contrived theater between you two.

when have you ever seen theater like this? please link a game, i want to congratulate those players on being such great scum players.

[DkKoba]

how to play mafia when everyone keeps tossing out bad logic every other post

[DkKoba]

as far as yall are concerned, ranger vote is policy until they can properly verbalize reasoning for any of their scumreads that cites specifics and not just "lolz all of it"

[DkKoba]

i dont care bc if u are town here u dont even respect my arguments bc you arent even considering them or reading things I say seriously.

ok koba correct me if I'm misunderstanding you ok?


your argument is that ranger is mafia because she is not elaborating on her read on you and if she were town then she would elaborate on her read on you.

for your evidence you've provided one example of ranger!town in a completed game elaborating on a read.

now for that evidence to be conclusive - it would also have to be true that ranger!town in every completed game would have to elaborate on all of her reads[or reads when asked]

now if you think that's true we can go on to the next step of asking ranger if she's ever not elaborated on a read as town in a completed game.

Any issues?

ur not clearing ur partner off a gotcha, sorry. that is not my only reasoning

my scumread reasoning meets higher standards than others on me, so frankly idc

1. I'm not "clearing" ranger - I'm just pointing out the hole in your logic - you can explain why its wrong or you can just be discrediting with a nonsense remark.

2. ofc I have different standards for different players. I've played lots of games with you and I've never played with ranger in my life.

ur making me fucking do 10x the work ofeveryone else. stop making me your explanation mule

[DkKoba]

as far as u are concerned until i get what i want from ranger, this is a policy push for disrespecting the players and refusing to engage in a way that is better readable

[DkKoba]

not_mafia is more readable than this bc at least his actions show his intentions

[DkKoba]

holy shit can we please wagon ranger until they actually start playing

[DkKoba]

VOTE: DkKoba
This one apologizes but that is such a weird fucking move to pull.

what is weird and why is it scummy

This one was briefly under the assumption that you were linking Bloodborne Mafia as it was firsthand experience you had with Ranger, but that is very much not the case and it's wondering why the hell you picked that game while claiming "i will always find the most recent game I can. The most recent Ranger scumgame was 2016." when it's not only much easier to find recent games compared to old games, but you also can just... check her wiki page, and from there quickly find her full list of played games. Granted, that page is very outdated, but it does still list a few newer scum games from her, namely Open 641, Open 644, and Micro 617. It's honestly kind of intriguing how you got to Bloodborne Mafia

specifically

and not one of her much more recent scum games OR one of these three later ones on her Played Games page. Either way it's OBJECTIVELY weird and feels like a very bad faith attempt at getting a metaread agreed with.

i told you my method for finding scum games.
i search for the scum PT then find the relevant game

why dont u just fucking ask why i got that game

[DkKoba]

the number 1 way to read people is to examine their process.

True enough.

I've strong reason to believe you're not doing so for me.

yeah something I can agree on because you dont have one to examine.

[DkKoba]

would be weird to read whats not there

[DkKoba]

VOTE: DkKoba
This one apologizes but that is such a weird fucking move to pull.

what is weird and why is it scummy

This one was briefly under the assumption that you were linking Bloodborne Mafia as it was firsthand experience you had with Ranger, but that is very much not the case and it's wondering why the hell you picked that game while claiming "i will always find the most recent game I can. The most recent Ranger scumgame was 2016." when it's not only much easier to find recent games compared to old games, but you also can just... check her wiki page, and from there quickly find her full list of played games. Granted, that page is very outdated, but it does still list a few newer scum games from her, namely Open 641, Open 644, and Micro 617. It's honestly kind of intriguing how you got to Bloodborne Mafia

specifically

and not one of her much more recent scum games OR one of these three later ones on her Played Games page. Either way it's OBJECTIVELY weird and feels like a very bad faith attempt at getting a metaread agreed with.

i told you my method for finding scum games.
i search for the scum PT then find the relevant game

why dont u just fucking ask why i got that game

go to rangers profile. click "show users topics" go to page 2, scroll down until you see the first scum PT.

youre expecting me to sort by thread creation date?

[DkKoba]

half the reason yall reach wrong conclusions in mafia is bc you dont care about seeing how someone else is perceiving what theyre doing and why

[DkKoba]

i told you my method for finding scum games.
i search for the scum PT then find the relevant game

Then how did you miss this PT in favor of one not even on the first page of her topic search?

bc I ctrl-F PT

[DkKoba]

your gotcha is lame and useless

[DkKoba]

youre expecting me to sort by thread creation date?

YES????

ok well i didnt and i dont care to do what u want me to do

[DkKoba]

Okay, this one can believe how you found that PT, but it just speaks to a complete lack of effort to ACTUALLY find the most recent game.

why would i need to when im just looking for a baseline ? no real difference between 4 years ago and 8 metawise

this is my perspective. you do not determine how I perceive my own methods. so please stop trying to impose yourself into who I am

[DkKoba]

i am ME i am not YOU

[DkKoba]

games where i have to sit and debunk random shit half the game are bottom of the barrel enjoyment level please someone tell me what i need to do to just stop this stupid circular ride of:
someone accuses me of something that isnt true
-> i show them proof of why their accusation is inaccurate or correct their assumption with my actual reasoning/thoughts -> person doesnt actually believe me(or pretends so) -> repeat

[DkKoba]

no real difference between 4 years ago and 8 metawise

Big disagree.

dont care, that is going into mafia theory and I think it is true because I actually use old games. if you do not use old games or have not seen someone else do it you cannot really comment on the efficacy.

also refer to:

i am ME i am not YOU

and

Okay, this one can believe how you found that PT, but it just speaks to a complete lack of effort to ACTUALLY find the most recent game.

why would i need to when im just looking for a baseline ? no real difference between 4 years ago and 8 metawise

this is my perspective. you do not determine how I perceive my own methods. so please stop trying to impose yourself into who I am

[DkKoba]

i want to see what YOU think is important to explain.

What's important to explain is what I have been explaining already.

I've no clue what my town/scumgame really are. I know they're

not

"Ranger explains as town and doesn't as scum". I know I explain changes between pages when asked, and nobody asked me beyond your initial inquiry, which I answered in full with all the reasoning which existed. I make readslists. I'm a casual tryhard. I like to snark, I like to flirt, I like to give advice, I prioritize fun over winning, I've gained a bad reputation for trolling recently, and that's...about all I know, honestly.

ok well protip: when someone is getting obviously frustrated at how you are playing because they want to actually read your slot and are showing that, that person is probably town, i dont care that my POV is biased , I know that as scum this shit wouldnt be going down bc its more negative attention and i wouldnt care what my read is on u bc it would be arbitrary based on gamestate anyways.

those voting me, maybe consider, for like 2 seconds, that maybe, just maybe, this is a logical(well, logical as in yknow) result of the events that have transpired so far


how do you expect a townie who is being accused of things they know are false to react? (yes i realize this is also tied into my meta argument - but my counter is that I presented it and am using it to push you to explain things)
how do you expect a townie to react to people pushing them for unsubstantiated reasons?
how do you expect a townie to react to another player refusing to give specifics?

[DkKoba]

i will always find the most recent game I can. The most recent Ranger scumgame was 2016. i must use that game then. I have no other choice.

Strange. I used your PT search method, and the first scumgame there is literally called "(partners+)Ranger MAFIA Thread". How was this not the "most recent" scumgame?

The first below that:
The Street Fighter Mafia PT. How was this not the "most recent" scumgame?

Bloodborne's scum PT is the

third

on the list.

congrats u got a different result by doing a different searching method(its not the same as mine)

[DkKoba]

instructions:

open profile
click "search users topics"
ayo leave that search bar alone! we aint using that.
ctrl F
type "Pt"
wait! why are you sorting by thread creation date? its supposed to be by last post, fix it!
now go to page 2, the first thread with the word "PT" in the title happens to be... you guessed it... bloodbourne!

now we can stop talking abt this stupid gotcha that isnt actually a gotcha

[DkKoba]

it is accurate for a baseline at minimum. people's playstyles dont change that drastically unless its the difference between a young teenager and adult

Perhaps you're unaware of the timespan nine years is.

I

was

a teenager when I last played. Nine years is

nine years

. I'd hate to see your perception of time if you think nine years

isn't

the difference between a teenager and an adult.

well until you can verbalize what has tangibly changed in your playstyle, i have nothing more to discuss on this topic

[DkKoba]

i dont care bc if u are town here u dont even respect my arguments bc you arent even considering them or reading things I say seriously.

Perhaps the merit of the 'argument' is involved with the level of respect warranted.

having your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalalala" does not mean my arguments are bad

[DkKoba]

from what i read from your old games i kinda thought you would be better than being a level 1 tunneler if youre town here tho tbh

[DkKoba]

Internet cut out and I had a big post ready to go but I can't send it now, not gonna bother retyping and will send tomorrow when internet is back

[DkKoba]

dkkoba and ranger are scum together

VOTE: dkkoba

e-3

[DkKoba]

this is a policy push for disrespecting the players and refusing to engage in a way that is better readable

I've no problem being plenty readable to players. I've also little issue in most games with focusing on fun over winning. I'm quite certain your portrayal of your push on me as policy is a favored scum tactic of yours, although I've not the time to verify tonight.

whatever I decided that u are probably town I just wanted u to give me something I can actually argue against

Literally have SEVERAL people voting me with very poor reasoning or none at all and it's fuckjng frustrating bc it's just giving scum a free fucking pass to do what they want bc there is no critical thought involved

VOTE: drew

[DkKoba]

holy shit can we please wagon ranger until they actually start playing

I started playing on P1.

We should consider wagoning DKKoba

until they are engaging in good faith.

What a load of hypocrisy

[DkKoba]

no one gives a fucking shit about seeing things from my pov and then when I flip town it's like "oh no how did we Misread koba"

[DkKoba]

koba cant:
Not post on their bday to not stress over mafia
Decide to approach a game chilled because it's meant to be long-form
But also don't tryhard, that's extra scummy because clearly you're pushing agenda
Oh also don't expect people to have explanations for anything , that's just bad faith
Oh but if koba doesn't explain that's super scummy
Voting koba = towny because koba scummy because koba scummy

Do u fucking see what I am seeing from my pov

Like what am I supposed to see

This is it.
This is what I understand to be why people are thinking I'm scum

I just wanted to fucking enjoy a game

does this LOOK like a gamestate where I have 4 buddies to help me??

[DkKoba]

yeah something I can agree on because you dont have one to examine.

I

do

. That you can't see it here is suspect.

Name something I have done that isn't suspect

[DkKoba]

I have dealt with people who tunnel like you my whole time playing forum mafia
Whether that's someone like donempire, or quick, or furtiveglance, or whoever else.

Always the fucking same boring ass circular arguments that can't be overcome because the person with the read refuses to listen and is so far up their tunnel they forgot that it's ok to admit they're wrong

[DkKoba]

Okay, this one can believe how you found that PT, but it just speaks to a complete lack of effort to ACTUALLY find the most recent game.

Almost like the 'effort' was made in bad faith and not genuine.

Ironic considering your last post NGL

[DkKoba]

ok well protip: when someone is getting obviously frustrated at how you are playing because they want to actually read your slot and are showing that, that person is probably town

True!

You don't look frustrated.

You look argumentative.

The two, while similar, aren't the same. I've seen no signs of frustration from you. I've seen consistent signs of arguing from you.

what the fuck is wrong with yoh

[DkKoba]

"I've seen no signs of frustration from you"

The post you replied to is a sign, maybe you're just not reading bud

[DkKoba]

VOTE: pooky
Did not realize I was alone on finding pooky obvious scum

[DkKoba]

how do you expect a townie who is being accused of things they know are false to react? (yes i realize this is also tied into my meta argument - but my counter is that I presented it and am using it to push you to explain things)
how do you expect a townie to react to people pushing them for unsubstantiated reasons?
how do you expect a townie to react to another player refusing to give specifics?

These differ by player being pushed, players doing the pushing, and even game. There's no universal answer.

I'll say the way you've reacted is how I'd expect scum-you to react and not town-you. This is mental memory of your meta, and I confess will require research when I'm able to. (

Soonest

would be Wednesday.)

Should I scumread you for assuming my meta without reading it?

[DkKoba]

ok internet is back on PC, post which was drafted :

bc getting caught in this kinda circular feedback loop where its like "ok i think this person is scummy so i need to take what they are doing doing find a reason for why its scummy. ok cool i have a reason, theyre still scummy" etc.

i think u are actually way better than this as town seeing your townplay and seeing u get into a tunnel like this is uncharacteristic of you and that is why i am highly critical of the logic you used to find it bc you dropped me low when i had a low amount of posts -> during a time i was clearly just not online. i do not believe you found players like Meuh to have a "vibe' that good off those 4 posts.

it doesnt add up, the reads dont make sense in context to what was going on in thread, and holding back reasoning is just scummy af here. ofc doubling down on not explaining and just copping out with "its just how i play" doesnt help. what do u think im supposed to do as town in this scenario? say "oh my bad i guess ill let you slide for free, youre extra special after all and deserve special treatment over other players who i also expect to explain things with some level of logic"

[DkKoba]

VOTE: ranger
i changed my mind again, ranger is not using townie logic at all and they are fully capable of citing posts to make their point very easily, as an autistic person, the autism excuse is weak and boring

[DkKoba]

i was willing to bin ranger as town up until they made their meta claim about me: anyone who has actually read my meta would not be assuming i am scum here. "zomg u argued with shirou with team mafia that means when u argue with someone who scumreads you that means ur scum"

is what i am assuming ranger has at best, and if so they should actually say that.


if yall just wanna vote me out bc u dont wanna play with me whatever. i am clearly willing to put in effort and if u think im so scummy leave me around to "spew" some more. watch as your partner reads off me dont bear fruit because i dont have any (granted -> I think

i do wonder if xyzzy called ranger/me scum theater just in case ranger got wagoned and flipped so i can be pushed after or to gut the ranger push after i flipped town? random thought

i dont wanna see anyone saying "lol obvious t/t" kill pooky if i die, if red 100% kill ranger right after. dont let pooky fool u with his tricks bc he is super manipulative.

half the playerlist isnt even playing so whatever

[DkKoba]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ampionship

here have this game, read the arguments I have with seven and conq and santygrass. i am comparing you to how seven treated me that game. uninteractive scumreading of players without a real chance to discuss.

[DkKoba]

i just want someone to have a nuanced and deep conversation about mafia with rather than this stupid debunking cycle that i get into every other towngame because i have to teach people how to not assume things and if they *do* assume to LISTEN to the clarification.

i need skygazer they are my favorite player this game

[DkKoba]

from what i read from your old games i kinda thought you would be better than being a level 1 tunneler if youre town here tho tbh

My reads are fluid, and change by the circumstances.

By respecting your scumgame and believing your current push is reminiscent of it, you remain a scumread off the evolving circumstances. There's

evidence

you'd be town by now. It was absent previously and has since been generated. There's also evidence you're scum, absent previously and now generated.

I'm sure you'll ask me to explain. This I might do. Not tonight. No promises, yet I can outline the town vs. scum in more recent posts on Wednesday if rl circumstances don't change.

did u know.. um.. that.... peoples scumgames.. um... tend to mimic their umm,.,............ towngames sometimes.. super CRAZY i know. idk how u cant see that im actually trying to pull answers out of you! i dont think ur reads are fluid at all, in fact after like page 5 theyve stayed pretty much the same!

[DkKoba]

whatever I decided that u are probably town I just wanted u to give me something I can actually argue against

I believe this mindset does betray a scum alignment.

I'll recognize it's not exclusively a scum mindset; town can think this way.

I believe your search for something to argue against is specifically your scumgame, as searching for something to argue against isn't solving the game; searching for something to argue against is a tool to look better.

THERE IS A 7 PERSON WAGON ON ME RIGHT NOW THAT WAS 6 PERSON JUST EARLIER

OF FUCKING COURSE I AM SEEKING OUT TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON SAID WAGON BY ARGUING MY CASE AND SEEING IF ANYONE ON MY WAGON IS PUSHING ME FOR SCUMMY REASONS

your assumptions are TERRIBLE and if you actually read any sampling of any of my towngames, you would see that i get defensive of being wagoned and get distracted from solving.

your meta reading is not effective. you do not know how to use meta as a tool. please do not continue to do so if you end up miseliminating me and are town. you are banned from using meta upon my flip.

[DkKoba]

i am literally sacrificing sleep to prove u wrong. i just need to find a game where i get voted as town d1

[DkKoba]

viewtopic.php?t=88280 -> part of a hydra with gamma, i get into an argument with someone pushing me for BS reasons in the hood, located here:

this is similar enough and i dont care to hunt down my alts for more recent games bc most of my recentish games were on alts.

oh also bonus i saw scp game right under and i know i got into a bunch of t/t fights in that game lolz, not even the worst bc i had to argue with LLD who thought being a vig in a theme game was clearing and her reads were 0/3 (kinda similar frustration i guess as how i feel here with u pushing me and one of my higher townreads)

Subject: Mini 2240: SCP Upick (SCP 682 Ending)

UNVOTE: SCP 999

Alright, let's give this game a little more effort. Here are my thoughts right now:

Taking back the suspicion on Zyla, they have little content but I don't dislike their last two posts, and the day 1 wasn't on them.

I'm thinking town on Ampharos, this is mostly just feels based off of playing a few games with her. Night 1 action targeting me is interesting but doesn't need an explanation today, and is more likely to be town than not. This is not a good place to be pushing today, regardless, based on how day 1 went down and them not being involved in that.

I think Dwlee is fine. Can think about this more when they have more but I'm not interested in going there today either.

Galron gets a very light town read for their posting on day 1. I'm not sure why a call was made for pressure here since they were posting on day 1.

I think LLD is more likely to be town telling the truth than mafia making a gambit. We can figure it out later with claims.

I like Roden's posts on day 2.

Sircakez vote reasoning was one of the most plausible/justifiable from what I've seen. Other than that, they haven't done anything at all, and seemed pretty unconcerned coming into today.

I don't like the places SCP 999 has decided to focus today. If I have my way today, we won't be eliminating any of those players they've pushed today. I don't like that they then claimed to not be ascetic last night, and felt the need to "prove" that they had an ability that cost 2 D-class personnel. Their "reaction test" earlier didn't make sense. Seems to be going out of their way to disrupt the day phase.

I don't like the way Cephrir acts like Strangematter was really scummy. They really weren't... they posted, like, 3 times, and got jumped on for very flimsy reasons, followed by pushing instead of pulling back after an early cop claim. Day 2 play is mostly focused on defending themself, though they do have some reads as well. I don't like their spot on the Strangematter Wagon.

Infinity Zero started day 1 with a lot of mech talk around SCP 999's role, then transitioned into voting for Strangematter in 96 for very dubious reasons (how does it feel like that and why is Strangmatter a scumread at this point in time?) They also push instead of pulling back with the early cop claim. On day 2, Gamma getting mad about something insubstantial is definitely his scum meta. 149 kind of misses the point of what I am asking (which is if they have anyone as a scumread, not their townreads.) They do a woe is me thing for a bit which does not look town to me. In 183 they ask a question that feels more like a distraction than solving (and my answer to that is that I don't care for the premise, they may or may not have done so, but that isn't how I'm sorting people.) Their vote on Ampharos is lame.


[LLD]
[Ampharos]
[Zyla, Roden, Dwlee, Galron]
[SirCakez, Scp 999, Cephrir]]
[Infinity Zero]

Middle tier is above null in my eyes but I don't want to write them off for later as there is not much to look at there.
I am looking in the bottom 2 tiers for mafia. I don't think there are less than 2 mafia within that pool of 4, at the very least.

"I dont like the places scp 999 has decided to - " gonna stop you right there chief- you're going the level 1 route of assuming disagree = mafia. Why is my thoughts process behind my actions not town? You're working backwards - you dont *want* me to be town because you dont like my actions. Lets not get into those traps here - if thats how you reached conclusion on me and then preflipped me into dwlee townread(which is terrible if you actually bothered to read that iso, youre literally just preflipping me into them) - I have no reason to trust your reads are even remotely holistic.

[DkKoba]

oops forgot the hood link: viewtopic.php?t=88291

[DkKoba]

but anyways: ofc solving has taken a bit of backseat bc im legitimately at danger of elimination atm, part of mafia is proving yourself town too and getting miseliminated is bad. i always will prioritize removing a wagon on myself over hardcore solving -> i will try to solve AROUND my wagon but i will not move my focus too much (mostly a skill issue on my part) until its gone bc its hard for me to unstick myself from being frustrated over being pushed

[DkKoba]

as i pointed out, several slots have not really posted recently ( i tend to play at hyperspeed vs how others play, thus my post count)

like i have a take on every slot that has been *active* somewhere in the thread, and even some of the inactive ones, just bc i dont put it into one list all the timedoesnt make me not solving the game or actively looking broadly.

[DkKoba]

ok dont let me post for (expired on 2023-08-09 13:35:09)

i have posted more than 2x the next highest person and people are prob gonna kill me for flooding thread anyways and making it "unreadable" lol

o well

i will claim if needed but otherwise radio silence

[DkKoba]

The post you replied to is a sign, maybe you're just not reading bud

I read the post in question. It was literally making an argument. If you want to claim "I was being frustrated, not making an argument" for a post I see an argument within...then I'm going to be skeptical.

There's no sign of frustration within. My ability to read tone is certainly far from perfect. I read none present in 536.

2 things... can be 1

[DkKoba]

[ok sorry 1 last post but im at

e-3

pls keep that in mind if u pop into thread now]

[DkKoba]

VOTE: pooky

ok last post for real bc i think i understand ranger now after how badly they double downed on their(faulty) assumption about my frustration/play and sorta the kind of robotic response in 593 actually gave me a key for ranger's thought process-ish.sorry for the flooding! but i will at least say I did not leave empty handed from this so I did not *waste* the threadspace at least.

mainly just wanted to change my vote lolz

ok signing off....

sorry again for the spam

[DkKoba]

breaking my silence to say that
A) pooky is blatantly openwolfing and idk how pooky gets away with this dumb playstyle as scum everytime and people just lap it up like he put you under a spell
B) the posts orf made were not scummy to me at all because they displayed an independent thought process and not an agenda
C) most of us should be aware that disagreement =/= the person is scum
D) I only had to argue in circles because I kept trying to quash the same tired points that weren't even true
E) to Dann, I'm most sure of: pooky, xyzzy, and alisae being scum, and mush, orf, you, and skygazer being town. Skygazer being the most obvious of the bunch. Ranger to a lesser degree, there was no need for her to change her mind there as scum
F) hey people, I'm not the only slot in the game And it's ok to make strong reads elsewhere instead of going in circles about me. The bar for play is under the ground right now and that's super pro scum.
G) pooky can substantiate how I'm scum when he does catch me as town and accurately describe things. Here he is just repeating the same thing over and over.
H) to meuh: hey consider maybe, JUST maybe that the fact there are 7 votes on me for flimsy reasons I might just find that incredibly upsetting to interact with from either alignment, and your "scum caught for the wrong reasons" take is lazy


I think that people want me to be scum to feel right more than they actually are trying to sort me correctly and idk how to break thru this mindset in games

[DkKoba]

Gonna appeal to cakes directly, you let this kind of pooky get away with this kind of play in pokemon mafia and I sure hope you aren't again.

[DkKoba]

Isn't Pooky's scum game.

--Ad.

Show me games where you find pooky d1 as either alignment and maybe I'll consider your unsubstantiated POV

[DkKoba]

Me? Never actually played with Pooky. Observer only.
Curse? Mistook Pooky for scum in Death Curse. Learned its lesson.
This? Same exact game as Death Curse. Step by step.

--Ad.

Then don't try to pretend you can accurately read him like that and see that the quality of his play is poor and at least he should be pushed to a higher standard of play instead of whatever this is.

You should be expecting every player to meet at least 25% of the posting quality you have shown
Skygazer, Ranger, myself, Dann, idk prob Noone else is posting at a level conducive to solving eachother . Some are getting close, like meuh, orf, etc. But pooky is just barely above slots like rce based on the repetitive nature of his play and shallow takes.


Imma is actually sit down and try to get a handle on the less present slots but , please excuse m mild humility, I think I realized I have sort of approached the game differently from how I usually do as town in my focus - to explain why, I didn't have the wherewithal to really start pushing at low posters and theres a high chunk of them compared to my other games.

I'm not a slot that should be killed first anyways as I tend to gain accuracy over time(sometimes I GOAT d1, sometimes I have LLD like games where I am a bozo d1 and sometimes d2 but then turn around and find the whole team with reevaluations)

Like I don't know how to make people townread me when I'm being scumread for being myself.
Like sure, you might not do or say things I do and say as town. But that's precisely it.. I'm me. And frankly- you're not gonna find macro differences between my town and scumplay minus that i tend to slank more as scum in general (I understand I came into this game like this, but I had an intention of doing so pregame and all. Like understand that if you go into my town games you will find that I AM like this when in situations like this. The pokemon theme game i reference at cakez is an excellent example.

I will do anything play wise to present my thought process, etc. Even though I resent having to do more work than everyone but seems like I have to here. (I always fight eliminations as hard as I can) i will case as many people as I can as either alignment. Think I'm scum? I'm offering you tons of spew.

Tldr: I just want agency in this game instead of playing "have everything you do get called scummy no matter what"

[DkKoba]

Mm. You have a reputation. Don't care much for meta. But, well. Some folks are too consistent. Have to pay attention.

Koba's not scum for inconsistencies. Inconsistencies, NAI. Gravy for whatever meat. Koba's scum for wagon-stoppage. Curse says scum wagons build fast, halt at ~2/3s. Koba's scum for other players' ratfuckery. Curse caught good scum off of that before. Koba's scum for hard defense of a slot they don't like, no one else likes either. Check 396-398.

--Ad.

you realize how fucking illogical this kind of tell is.

I townread a slot, I didn't wanna pull this card but I'm better at finding tiwnies than most people here and thus me finding them town and others mot is not suspicious it's just me being good at the game.

If I die , my legacy is you don't fuckint touch orf without a good case that isn't "vibes "

[DkKoba]

Of course monkey pattern seeking brain wants to see that and think immediately "oh yeah that means it's partnered bc obviously I scumread both so no other reasons can exist"

Like it's frustrating bc I understand why people have these faulty assumptions but idk how to show they're ineffective and inconsistent

Do I have to do a research study with statistics like that's the level of "how to debunk scumreads on me" i feel I'm at.

[DkKoba]

in what world am i obvtown here tho

You shifted into the type of play I saw in garlic bread mafia. Granted I forgot the early game your weird accusation of my entrance being scummy but I now have an updated understanding how it looks from a 3p pov so it's not as bad on you anymore tbh

Also you're the only slot keeping me sane rn and to compare, town datisi often played this role in games with me where they would keep me grounded and that's something I associate with generally towniness. Hard to explain? Guess it's that you are being charitable and seem to have actual takes

[DkKoba]

Koba, I think you're mistaken about how we play things. We don't really use meta unless we have to because of a history of misreading a player as one alignment or another. We know we misread Pooky when he's town, but we have a tendency to paranoia about his slot when he doesn't immediately look like he did the first time we ever played a game with him, even said he should be policied in a game where he was in a hydra with Noraa. (Mountain Dew, right?)

We don't know your usual play. We don't care about it, either. Aside from players who have a reputation for certain behaviors being NAI, like Ranger, we ignore any meta we don't have first hand experience with. We hate even using meta we do have first-hand experience with, unless it's meta that isn't player-specific: finding someone to use as a co-processor, recognizing contemplative back-seat players we can question in the later phases, etc.

We don't care that you gain accuracy over time. If we're wrong this time, we'll keep it in mind. But you have chosen entirely the wrong slot and wrong tactic.

We care about what the game looks like now, in the moment. In the moment, you look like scum. We do not care about your history or your playstyle or your WL% or your EV or your frustration with how other players treat you because of meta that we have never read and will never read. We don't. We are immovable and uninterested. Argue your case by playing through, and if it doesn't work, know that you did the only thing that ever could have worked on us. Because we don't care.

--Orphee Nuit

thanks for contributing to my very uninteractive experience of being scumread for efforting

[DkKoba]

you tell me I'm scum bc of some voodoo ass wagonomics and me townreading someone and defending them, put yourself in my shoes as town. You get accused of the things you're accusing me of. No, you don't get to say "I wouldn't defend orf". What do you do? Of course you say "yeah that's just bullshit I'm town and that doesn't make sense bc i said this bc I believe it"

Most of you scumreadibg me have decided im scum for something NAI, then started twisting my play no matter what to a scumread.

At least I can hold this game against you all after it finishes next time I get pushed like this , just like how I am using a previous game with cakez lmao

[DkKoba]

Your effort has nothing to do with your scumread. This early in the game, especially.

We're telling you the same we tell everyone else across all our games, since you like meta. We don't care about meta and meta is not going to convince us of anything. In fact, if we have a read based on meta we're going to treat it as trash and, if anything, be biased to swinging away from it. As with Pooky now, in fact.

If you want to convince us, convince us with current play, not long dead games. There is no other option for you. There is, in fact, no other option for anyone.

--Orphee Nuit

My current play is easily findable as town, your fault for not trying to understand me as a person to understand my motives for why I say things. You are here to play a game where you are debating with evidence, telling me good evidence of baseline behavior is bad and doesn't work.
Anyways breaks over, I will dive into slots when I get home.

[DkKoba]

Well curse got lucky 3 times and they're using gamblers fallacy ?? Meta is not useless, you're just too afraid to apply it correctly.

1 dimensional reads are the real trash and that's what your read is, 1 dimensional.

X happened so Y

Like that's not a consistent way

LIKE I CANT FUCKING ARGUE ANYTHING ORHER THAN "OH THIS IS NOT A GOOD REASON BC WTF ITS NOT A REAL THING

[DkKoba]

Also clear you aren't listening youtr just defending your ego so cheers I wish you a very big shame if I flip

[DkKoba]

If it was just the wagon-stall, one-dimensional might be correct. There's also the way that other scummy players positioned around you. Players who are scummy independent of you. There's also how you went, unheralded, from "this player is bad and I will not miss them" to a hard-defense of the same slot. There's also the dynamics of the 1v1 with you and Ranger, from frustrated to purely combative to resigned to combative to resigned for real.

The read isn't one-dimensional, you just don't like the dimensions. Fair, but we aren't changing how we play for you anymore than we'd expect you to change how you play for us.

--Orphee Nuit

2 1 dimensional reasons do not math into more

[DkKoba]

Why I'm town: (quick version) I have a fairly broad view of the game as best I can
- I put nuance into my reads
- I have used a lot of quick meta to check people. As scum I avoid this because it lowers the ability to be bad faith
- i have moved my reads multiple times in a way that is inconsistent if I have an agenda
- I care about being correct and others being correct
- I actually go to bat for my townreads

[DkKoba]

I'm still a strong believer that orf will trend town , however like i understand its not enough atm to better prove it. My townread is based on my belief of a trend i feel is underlying in their play (i tend to do these trend based reads where I predict how the person's posts will continue to be based on the limited amount, how I typically find low content slots if I have to find a read)

I'm willing to compromise on xyzzy although I always prefer pushing my most confident scumread who is pooky.

I'll also share i briefly considered claiming Venge bc I did somewhat soft PR with the "i will claim if i have to" line (the setup doesnt specify there are no PRs when I looked)
A micro reason for pooiy scum is the feeling he TMI that there are unlikely to be roles although that is unreliable and more of a post game "yeah I recognized this" thing and there are more compelling reasons to scumread pooky

[DkKoba]

I mean, Ad trusts you right now Pooky, so I'm gonna say you've either defeated the danger-sense that we didn't know even existed until it caused a surprise game-winning replace-out a couple months back, or you're provisionally town.

--Curse, signing because Orphee's kinda too close to its voice for its liking right now.

Or because he's scum , he isn't solving and you scumresd his solving style... you should seriously consider *why* you Misread town pooky because I'm like fairly sure this is it.

[DkKoba]

Idk fam seems too self assured to assume the reason is because you "finally got it" and not "I'm wrong again"
Bc you didn't actually figure out why you Misread in the first place

[DkKoba]

its d1 of a 19p with no flips yet, i dont need to solve shit, i just need to kill the baddies one at a time and laugh at how dumb nightless is as a setup because the baddies cant shoot me

Really crazy people actively townread this slot
I can understand a null read but a townread is so laughably careless

[DkKoba]

Uh, I already did consider why I misread town Pooky? I always do a post-mortem of my play after the end of a game. It's even in all the threads. Each time, I reread the whole game and come to conclusions about how myself and everyone else played, mistakes I made, things I can improve on. Except for Burdened By Secrecy, which was a case where Ad stunned our system and the game was over so fast no one else found their footing, if you check the post-game of any game I've played, I analyze my own play or admit that I lost track of the game and can't really recover enough to be sure. Death Curse was a game I was firing on all cylinders, maximum power.

He's doing exactly as much solving as he did in Death Curse. Go ISO that behemoth game if you don't believe me -- and for the record, using Death Curse as an example since you're fond of meta, you're this game's Noraa.

And he did this in pokemon theme game as scum
He does this as town sometimes on purpose to mask his scumplay bc he likes having a trust tell when he actually tries. He has a very easy line to cross to be townread and he knows it if he is town

[DkKoba]

i predict tommy edman gets three slam dunks tonight

freedom

[DkKoba]

E) to Dann, I'm most sure of: pooky, xyzzy, and alisae being scum, and mush, orf, you, and skygazer being town. Skygazer being the most obvious of the bunch. Ranger to a lesser degree, there was no need for her to change her mind there as scum

huh why xyzzy

where did HPE scum read go

had enough decent moments that I wouldn't put them in the same tier as the others I listed anymore

[DkKoba]

Do u think it's healthy to interrogste me and fill more of the thread with discussion related to my slot purely or like are u and orhers capable of looking elsewhere :/ I don't actually remember and I'm not gonna look back now, gut memory says there was some indignation somewhere that was towny, granted I am extremely cautious bc I got hard snowed by the slot in TM.

No but like seriously it's super pro scum and unhealthy to center discussion around me. Even if I was scum, you're going into d2 with 0 info except like maybe Ranger town, because bussing is the optimal strategy in nightless for mafia (there's some statistic where mafia win nightless most after bussing d1 or something)

There are 5 scum but somehow like consensus seems to rotate around xyzzy/me/orf and like a couple others but the people that have outside this don't have all 3 of the latter. You have a 5 person scumteam, you shouldn't be townreading every slot outside of that

[DkKoba]

I do not *get* the overwhelming xyzzy scum reads

tbh that vote on me was super scummy and while most see it as a bus, to me it's just trying to force the wagon thru to me kinda vibe.

----

Anyways, there was something I thought about that I saw from pooky that implies I should let some flips play out before I give final judgment there -> without nk I can afford to keep this to myself for now. I'm still p sure pooky scum bc of how flagrantly he is misreading me uncritically(actually this reminded me that this kinda be like how he pushed prism in that pyp game he ragequit)

VOTE: drew egging on a 1v1 scummy behavior, just wanna poke somewhere new for now.

Would rather pull out a slot like meuh but doesn't look like I have the pull to get pressure on that slot rn

[DkKoba]

I actually am buying into Pooky-scum rn (caught a potential scumtell), yet not strongly enough to prefer him over ofrhz/xyzzy.

To me it's not really a scumtell outside of the bad faith read on my slot in a meta where he has like a near 100% read rate on me - it's the lack of towntells
(And tbh I should start going thru and building a towncore for myself , I have been too distracted lmao)

[DkKoba]

Well I'm very willing to outsource my read on hpe, bc of the team Mafia thing. If I had to estimate where I have them rn it's probably still bottom 7 if not still 5
Granted I don't think people being wrong on me = wrong on others. Depends what kind of process / reasoning therefore is. All I currently have against xyzzy is a very scummy looking vote which I can explain away via 'scum might position more intelligently" but on top of that, i indeed have nothing else and they seem disengaged

[DkKoba]

Do u think it's healthy to interrogste me and fill more of the thread with discussion related to my slot purely or like are u and orhers capable of looking elsewhere :/ I don't actually remember and I'm not gonna look back now, gut memory says there was some indignation somewhere that was towny, granted I am extremely cautious bc I got hard snowed by the slot in TM.

idk if it's unrealistic of me but I would uh actually appreciate if you did go back and look and figure out what your read on HPE is and why

it's not like this is discussion related to your slot purely, I literally want to know your thoughts on another slot

i kinda thought the way they treated the whole meta debacle was towny in nature ->

Koba bringing up an ancient ass game pings super weird when they most likely have much more recent experience with scum!Ranger but otherwise this one still doesn't super get the Koba wagon.

i literally did this with Ythan in team mafia, i will always find the most recent game I can. The most recent Ranger scumgame was 2016. i must use that game then. I have no other choice.

Fair enough. This one is mostly curious though if you went looking for a Ranger scumgame you were in to compare to, or if you were picking up similar vibes from Ranger compared to that nine year old game and went to grab it to prove it to others.

like this into

Koba bringing up an ancient ass game pings super weird when they most likely have much more recent experience with scum!Ranger but otherwise this one still doesn't super get the Koba wagon.

its dawning on me koba joined in 2020 and was very much not in bloodborne mafia.

this felt like a fairly townie thought progression to have


you interpreted it differently, i have a major achilles heel for nuanced sounding reasoning when people make pushes against me lol.

re: bulge: let me give you the explaination on why i did post that. pooky and I are very successful at finding eachother town (eventually) in games even if its after trial by fire when we are town/town. at the time i thought pooky was just trying to force me to make more content and was pushing me based on being slanky early on, which i felt was realistically reasonable and gave a plausible town world for him, although the way he was pushing me was uncharitable, which was why i wanted to push him first, get him to towntell if he is town, because scum him is not capable of hitting his real towntells, he just is good at manipulating people into thinking stuff that isnt his towntells is.


re:mush while your xyzzy argument has merit, I am leaning that world myself, I do not think just because Dannfloor has a different perspective there that makes them scum necessarily. Maybe he is scum! But linking alignment to disagreeing with a read is a surefire way to make a game super toxic.

[DkKoba]

i predict tommy edman will throw a touchdown this inning

so long as he starts with a Sicilian Defense

[DkKoba]

ok i kinda wish someone other than MUSH went deep into the xyzzy read because I'm already town reading it pretty hard but oh well

i just read xyzzy's ISO and now i remember why i had it low b4 the vote on me, and it was bc like there was a *single* game related post in all of it, now theres a total of 3 only.

[DkKoba]

alright this is where i reveal that schadd did indeed give me a PR that lets me for 1 series decrease Tommy Edman's ability to bat. Not sure about the legality of all this, but you're welcome.

[DkKoba]

pooky wanna tunnel eachother for like 10 pages and then end up townreading eachother by the end anyways

the only way I would townread you is if you deliver to me dead scum

This is a pretty good level to where I start with Koba

I'm only on page 17 but Kona is looking like a most likely to die to Tommy Edman candidate rn LOL

oh u have not learned anything since pokemon theme game...

[DkKoba]

pooky wanna tunnel eachother for like 10 pages and then end up townreading eachother by the end anyways

the only way I would townread you is if you deliver to me dead scum

This is a pretty good level to where I start with Koba

I'm only on page 17 but Kona is looking like a most likely to die to Tommy Edman candidate rn LOL

oh u have not learned anything since pokemon theme game...

(newsflash: "play that looks weird/i dont like" =/= scummy)

[DkKoba]

uhhh how about read the fucking game lmao

why did you choose xyzzy to sheep?

[DkKoba]

and no ranger isnt it either bzzzzzzzzzt

[DkKoba]

uhhh how about read the fucking game lmao

why did you choose xyzzy to sheep?

I’ll read it at some point.

I read this page and took xyzzys posting at face value, thought it was reasonable, then I voted.

My initial read on ranger was that they were getting ahead of the curve to seem town in a part of the game that hadn’t called for it, like the first 10 pages or so. Which was surface level scummy for me.


That’s all I have on the game rn tbh.

That's not scummy though??? That's just called effort.???????

[DkKoba]

VOTE: Cakez
staffhate go brrrr

I find this hard to believe this being a wolf motivated vote?
maybe the guy just reads pure

they're from pokrmon showdown mafia - so no it's not pure

[DkKoba]

uhhh how about read the fucking game lmao

why did you choose xyzzy to sheep?

I’ll read it at some point.

I read this page and took xyzzys posting at face value, thought it was reasonable, then I voted.

My initial read on ranger was that they were getting ahead of the curve to seem town in a part of the game that hadn’t called for it, like the first 10 pages or so. Which was surface level scummy for me.


That’s all I have on the game rn tbh.

That's not scummy though??? That's just called effort.???????

Ok you’re ignoring the whole premise of the read.

But that aside, why do you think Ranger is town?

Because they show a depth in play and nuance and bc I don't hold misconceptions about putting in effort early



Also wondering how the orf attack force is going to treat alisae now that she is giving the same read on orf as I did

[DkKoba]

@alisae how am I mafia?

[DkKoba]

ok alisae is probably woofing with pooky with this level of cogdis+ constsnt ignoring of me

[DkKoba]

I realized there aren’t nightkills so I won’t be getting my n1 fearkill

What. When would you ever get fearkilled ?

[DkKoba]

alisae giving me the cold shoulder not like Town alisae >.>

Rly starting to believe my gut that there is a conspiracy orchestrated between pooky/alisae to force me over bc of fear to give them gamestate control(and ranger too now)


I don't care if you think this is a ridiculous take from your Pov, it's my pov and it's how I feel and I'm tired of being told i don't feel a certain way bc people want to project onto me. I don't tell you that you aren't thinking a certain way, I tell you that your premise is wrong. I would feel better if you explained why I was wrong and not accused me of "making it up" bc it's so rude honestly ? To constantly do that and it's tiring. It's a stupid shortcut to dismiss like that and I'm really annoyed atp tbh

[DkKoba]

VOTE: bluesnakelet

I agree this is scum

Yeah anyone who doesn't make scumreads or treat their scumreads the way dannfloor wants them to is scummy so true!!

I think blue is one of the more obvious town slots in the game And is attempting to create a pro solve environment and I now think most of the townies in this game are just being anti town in their process based on the extremely ridiculous


Feels like people wanna really catch a deepwolf and be a hero over actually building a PoE bc wtf are these pushes on me, Ranger, and now blue. Like I'm seeing a trend that people wanting to go against consensus are being auto labeled as scummy for no good reason. Orf I understand. He's a little disengaged and all, maybe he could be mafia, I'm leaning town, but I get the other side reasonably.

Blue's approach is nuanced in a way that's very reasonable and they're playing better than the majority of the playerlist rn, sorry not sorry.

Like blue was like "yeah I'm not pushing happy despite feeling their posting kinda eh rn bc I'll just let the mechanic play out for now and I'll give them time to get in the game" and that's exactly how i feel about iavh btw, and I actually have good meta reason as I've played on his homesite and I had more posts than every player in the game combined, so frankly I'm still leaving it plausible that he is just super overwhelmed in this large game atm, and whether it's scum or town overwhelming its not clear yet for me and I'm sure blue is conveying similar, correct me if im wrong blue. I think their take on my slot is good too but I recognized that's bias from my knowledge of me being town and all.


Like there's so much level 0 "person I think is scum is defending another active wagon ergo must be mafia together" when that's not how mafia works necessarily(it happens but it's a terrible independent reason)

[DkKoba]

I simply do not believe Blue’s read on ofrhz

My scum read on ofrhz is cooling off as well

Idk what you want me to do *not* vote people I think are scum?

I would prefer you not vote my townreads that I feel are already findable.

(I did outline why I find blue towny )

Mostly frustrated with the pattern of who is getting wagoned and the events happening that lead up to it? Like maybe my assumptions are wrong but there is a pattern I'm seeing and I present my view to be confirmed if true/clarified if false.

Do you have anyone who you are confident are never the d1 play because of their play? And what is your bottom 7 poe if you had to make one?

I have this latent paranoia bc of our game of purgatory mafia where u did snow town with nice sounding play, but I think here you are attempting to approach the game in good faith and I'm strongly leaning town for you , to be transparent.

[DkKoba]

uhhh how about read the fucking game lmao

why did you choose xyzzy to sheep?

I’ll read it at some point.

I read this page and took xyzzys posting at face value, thought it was reasonable, then I voted.

My initial read on ranger was that they were getting ahead of the curve to seem town in a part of the game that hadn’t called for it, like the first 10 pages or so. Which was surface level scummy for me.


That’s all I have on the game rn tbh.

That's not scummy though??? That's just called effort.???????

Ok you’re ignoring the whole premise of the read.

But that aside, why do you think Ranger is town?

Because they show a depth in play and nuance and bc I don't hold misconceptions about putting in effort early



Also wondering how the orf attack force is going to treat alisae now that she is giving the same read on orf as I did

Let’s agree to disagree on whether gutpings have value.

Nuance and depth of play in what ways? An example is fine.

My pov is from direct interaction (yknow the 5 page argument lol) and I need to relook for specifics. My mindset was I thought scum 100% drove my wagon in some way and after duking duking it out I came out with a townread bc their reasonings and such did turn out to show depth despite me not fully understanding their method of expressing it