Pokemon Battles 2 - Attack on Giratina [GAME OVER]

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: pink ball

he knows why

[SquirtleSquad]

if anyone is dondozo they should target me.

[SquirtleSquad]

im town.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'M DRUNK

INTENT TO HAMMER PINK BALL

yeah ok

[SquirtleSquad]

INTENT TO WITNESS SAID HAMMER

Why is your sig just three posts about you being bad at town?

[SquirtleSquad]

My sig is about squirting out water with vigorous force.

[SquirtleSquad]

generally if people can't find you as town it says more about your play than theirs though.

[SquirtleSquad]

also VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

vibes are off.

[SquirtleSquad]

also VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

vibes are off.

Sheep is literally my only townread so far

why

[SquirtleSquad]

also VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

vibes are off.

Sheep is literally my only townread so far

why

I think he feels comfortable

I don't agree, I think popping in the thread and jumping in on two jokes is the opposite of "being comfortable"

[SquirtleSquad]

also VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

vibes are off.

Sheep is literally my only townread so far

why

I think he feels comfortable

I don't agree, I think popping in the thread and jumping in on two jokes is the opposite of "being comfortable"

It feels like the sort of approach that scum would consciously avoid?

I think scum try to blend in during the early game using fluff and jokes literally all the time?

[SquirtleSquad]

If scum are thinking 'how can I avoid getting suspected early' I feel like the current meta is developed in such a way that appearing to be 'blending in' is the last thing they'd want to do

ACTUALLY blending in, sure
But it has to be in a way that doesn't look like an attempt at blending in

how does that work like what's the distinction
like don't scum in all situations not want to seem to be intentionally faking something

'This player wants to blend in' is like one of the most common reasons for an early serious wagon to start
So my instinct is to assume most scum don't want to be *the player who wants to blend in*

And yet...

[SquirtleSquad]

Like there is a reason that these things tend to be "the reason early serious wagons start."

There's also a hole in your logic here where you're simultaneously claiming that scum will be noticed for doing this thing which is definitionally "blending in."

If they do it well they will have in fact blended in and won't be wagoned for it.

But I also think you're putting too much analysis into the thought process of your average scum player. I do not think the average scum player is thinking "I don't want to be noticed so I'd better not TRY to LOOK like I'm trying to not be noticed!" At least I certainly don't.

I think the average scum player enters the thread and says "I don't want to stick out" and a frequent way this is accomplished is by doing exactly what sheep did.

[SquirtleSquad]

I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement. I don’t think that level of self consciousness is applicable to 95% of the site

Pedit @Klick

Same. I feel the opposite is generally true.

Scum can be as scummy fluffy as they want early because at the end of the day, there’s no good case on people early.

Scum don’t care if they almost get faded in early early game because more than likely there’ll be people who go “woah let’s not end the day that fast” and then people will go elsewhere

This feels like a take based in a large amount of experience and confidence in being scum
I don’t think this is how most scum players think

Ironically I think this critique applies much more to your claim than it does to flavor leaf.

I think you are the one who are ascribing a much higher level of reasoning to how mafia players approach early game than I think actually happens.

[SquirtleSquad]

It's a conversation that lends itself to getting too into the weeds

I struggle to see into the mindset of a scum player who actively chooses to make the posts sheep started this game with
I can potentially see it from the perspective of a scum player who was just not thinking particularly hard about their approach
I think that's less likely than sheep just being town

I agree with the first part.

I could if I cared find you 10 examples of scum players entering the game exactly like sheep did but I am lazy. I am kind of shocked that you have not had a similar experience on your own.

[SquirtleSquad]

firebringer is town.

[SquirtleSquad]

squirtle would u be willing to quantify ur read on me a bit more precisely/vividly? like is it just a gut thing to get the game going, or would u call it a legit scum lean, etc
idk

idr feel the need to help you figure out how to defend yourself.

either you'll show you're town or you'll die and either outcome is ok.

[SquirtleSquad]

firebringer is town.

Nope

I agree.
But i'm gonna keep voting them anyway.

Yeeeessssss

why nope

[SquirtleSquad]

We had two whole days of pregame where presumably scum could talk and I feel pretty sure they would have discussed the battle mechanics so either this discussion on firebringers part of the battle mechanics of the game is a deliberate dumbtell designed to prompt me to have exactly this reaction, scum!firebringer completely ignored his scum team during pregame (possible ig?) or firebringer is town who has not spent any time discussing or figuring out said mechanics.

1 and 2 are possible but 3 is way more likely.

So I'm gunna need a really compelling answer to my "why" question.

[SquirtleSquad]

pink ball is just agreeing with everything I say. Could just be because I am so cool and handsome though.

[SquirtleSquad]

squirtle would u be willing to quantify ur read on me a bit more precisely/vividly? like is it just a gut thing to get the game going, or would u call it a legit scum lean, etc
idk

idr feel the need to help you figure out how to defend yourself.

either you'll show you're town or you'll die and either outcome is ok.

it's more for me trying to read u lol, not concerned with defense

i'm town.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[SquirtleSquad]

the more sheep posts the more he is doing the first part of "you will show yourself to be townie or die" thing btw.

[SquirtleSquad]

We had two whole days of pregame where presumably scum could talk and I feel pretty sure they would have discussed the battle mechanics so either this discussion on firebringers part of the battle mechanics of the game is a deliberate dumbtell designed to prompt me to have exactly this reaction, scum!firebringer completely ignored his scum team during pregame (possible ig?) or firebringer is town who has not spent any time discussing or figuring out said mechanics.

1 and 2 are possible but 3 is way more likely.

So I'm gunna need a really compelling answer to my "why" question.

They could have easily not discussed it. Towns give scum PTs too much credit. I've lost count of how many times I've assumed scum did XYZ on purpose only to learn postgame they were hardly talking at all.

Squirtle is town too

can u say more abt ur reads on squirtle/klick

I think my instinct about their exchange is very different from urs

Squirtle's read on you seems legit, not coming from scum pushing town or scum pushing a partner
Klick's defense on you seems legit, not coming from scum trying to whiteknight really early game or scum protecting a partner.

Scum!Squirtle doesn't need to do either of those things this early as scum.
Scum!Klick doesn't need to do either of those things this early as scum.

Not saying that they wouldn't but they don't have to, so I'm assuming they aren't.

If scum only ever did things they "have to" do, their win rate would be much lower.

And so begins what I presume will be a lengthy and calculated campaign of intentional uselessness. This is the most fun part of a game to read: low in density, things feel at their most fluid. If this is your response each time you view the thread, you will never post at all.

VOTE: WhemeStar

Scummiest vote so far imo.

VOTE: Chandra Nalaar

Thank you. It's good to know early who my detractors will be.

add that as a fourth possibility if you want, I still think its way less likely than firebringer just being town tho.

[SquirtleSquad]

much more interested in doctor drew.

seems just like normal patchwork to me. they're always like this.

[SquirtleSquad]

doesnt preclude them from being scum I suppose.

[SquirtleSquad]

I responded to his saying nope to my firebringer town read with what I thought was pretty good reasoning.

Even if he didn't agree with that, I was attempting to start a dialogue, I would expect a town player to be interested in using that hook to try to sort me, or at least to have some sort of interaction which was readable.

He responded by ignoring it completely and interaction with the fluff post directly above it to continue fluff posting. All the things he's said seem either contrived or actively unhelpful.

[SquirtleSquad]

Also pink ball is pretty obviously hinting at the fact that doctor drew is the secret scum read he has and I want to see how he justifies that read to better inform my read of pink ball.

[SquirtleSquad]

Not too convincing.

nah I think its great.

[SquirtleSquad]

much more interested in doctor drew.

seems just like normal patchwork to me. they're always like this.

wait who the heck are you

black alt.

[SquirtleSquad]

Just wait until black posts.

[SquirtleSquad]

Anyway patchwork and black definitely not scum together lmao.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm so good at lying.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm sorry for lying, black is in this game so I can't be her.

This is actually my first ever game of mafia dot scum dot net.

[SquirtleSquad]

much more interested in doctor drew.

seems just like normal patchwork to me. they're always like this.

what do you find interesting?

You don't find me interesting??

I responded to his saying nope to my firebringer town read with what I thought was pretty good reasoning.

Even if he didn't agree with that, I was attempting to start a dialogue, I would expect a town player to be interested in using that hook to try to sort me, or at least to have some sort of interaction which was readable.

He responded by ignoring it completely and interaction with the fluff post directly above it to continue fluff posting. All the things he's said seem either contrived or actively unhelpful.

You must be real fun at parties.

bruh.

[SquirtleSquad]

Please stop being personally insulting to me in a game of mafia dude.

[SquirtleSquad]

Nothing I said or did was warranted you calling me stupid or insulting my social literacy or sociability. It is outside of the bounds of the game we are playing pretty explicitly by the rule set of this game. So, please stop.

[SquirtleSquad]

my whole point is you chose to shit post instead of trying to develop a real read of either me or firebringer.

[SquirtleSquad]

This is a very serious forum topic for aggressive mind games, there is no place for tomfoolery here.

weak as hell post tbh

[SquirtleSquad]

my whole point is you chose to shit post instead of trying to develop a real read of either me or firebringer.

I have played as bunch with FB recently, once as scum buddies, yes I was having fun with them. You might think it is crazy, but that helps me read them.

And yes I chose to continue to shit post, and I will shit post even more no matter what stage the game is in. Doesn't mean I am not playing the game or trying to sort.

You are trying to force a reaction, and judging by what has happened here we haven't played together as of yet, I prefer to let nature take it's course.

You do you boo, I will do me

Pre Edit: I just put my super srz bizness hat on, you damn kids get off my lawn with the hipping and the hopping

nah you're just scum.

[SquirtleSquad]

the best part about ranger read lists is knowing what pages lots of stuff happened on and then seeing almost no changes at all when they get to those pages.

It's like asking chatGPT to slightly change a list every page with no rhyme or reason at all

[SquirtleSquad]

idc if people try to guess who I am.

I'm not gunna react to any of it either way.

[SquirtleSquad]

Political positioning is when someone makes reads specifically to take a stake and play and help control a gamestate.

As someone who also makes reads list as town and scum, I can feel the difference when a player is actually reading the gamestate in such a way or if they’re listing to have a better spot in the general gamestate.

The fact they had multiple at the top, and non existent me is fake af.

It makes the people closer to the top happy with Ranger, and the ones kind of in the middle hope to go up.

Ranger started to put me up once I called them out hoping I’d start liking them more.

Their lower tiers are there being held down and likely going to take some flak.

They put me there with little to zero content when they literally just went through a game with me not too long ago where i just posted gifs all day 1.

It was a political placing of myself on the bottom, and multiple people at the top

I guess I don't understand why they'd place you at the bottom if they're being political. Are you saying they wouldn't care about what you think about them or what?

[SquirtleSquad]

i find it a little strange that they sprang that read on sheep when sheep had four or five posts. i, myself, literally forgot sheep had even posted at all, so i believe that gives squirtle's argument more credibility.

you find it strange that Squirtle made on that argument on Sheep cuz Sheep had so few posts but since you forgot about Sheep it has more credibility?

no bc squirtle's initial post was "vibes are off" or something along those lines... WHERE ARE THE VIBES IM NOT PICKING THEM UP

I'm still confused sorry what gives Squirtle's argument more credibility?

squirtle says (this is oversimplified) "sheep just sort of disappeared, i think this is scum-indicative". i

forgot

sheep had even posted, so i think the argument is more fair.

ooooh ok ok

this does not even slightly resemble what I said about sheep.

[SquirtleSquad]

this does not even slightly resemble what I said about sheep.

wait what did you say then....

specifically I did not like sheeps entrance because I thought it was trying to find jokey places to be present in the thread. The whole argument with Klick was about whether or not that was something scum tend to do or not so I have a hard time seeing how you could have actually read the conversation between me and klick without picking up on that.

[SquirtleSquad]

At no point was my point about activity on not being present in the thread.

[SquirtleSquad]

patchwork may be scum, but they definitely did not have an evil plan of deliberately misrepping Squirtle there.

Correct. I don't think they're scum either. I think there's a pretty big tonal difference between their scum and town games.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am considering forming a day one alliance.

Those who I wish to join my alliance:
Flavor, Chandra, Norwee, Drew and Squirtle

We will call ourselves the elite 6. Sounds like a good plan to me
Don't even townread everyone in that group just think this is a fun alliance.
How about we defeat all these poser trainers.

I would like to lim a person in this group more than any other player in this list so no dice soldier.

[SquirtleSquad]

I will say if someone is playing on an alt account specifically because they want to play a different persona/playstyle maybe we can all stop calling them by their other username and use the one they're playing this game with?

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm never trying to read FL without flips.

He can sit comfortably in the null until I'm ready to deal with him.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm never trying to read FL without flips.

He can sit comfortably in the null until I'm ready to deal with him.

This looks fake and noncommittal, but I’m still trying to pocket you, so you can still be town for now.

I am saying that I think you have a pretty wide scum range and I think the best way to catch you is to look at your actions in the aggregate and decide if you've been pushing pro town or pro scum narratives. That's impossible to evaluate without some corpses.

[SquirtleSquad]

it seems weird to call my post "non-committal." like its some kind of gotcha.

like yeah dude it's non-committal. I was explicitly saying I will not commit to a read on you on day 1. I wasn't trying to be sneaky about it.

[SquirtleSquad]

I read all people who I think have really wide scum ranges this way.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm never trying to read FL without flips.

He can sit comfortably in the null until I'm ready to deal with him.

This looks fake and noncommittal, but I’m still trying to pocket you, so you can still be town for now.

I am saying that I think you have a pretty wide scum range and I think the best way to catch you is to look at your actions in the aggregate and decide if you've been pushing pro town or pro scum narratives. That's impossible to evaluate without some corpses.

I wouldn’t agree that it’s impossible. People just overthink me. I think refusing to read is just kinda lazy.

In theory, your reasoning should apply to everyone in the game, but you’re singling me out for some reason.

your self meta is noted and ignored.

[SquirtleSquad]

If we could get some more votes on WhemeStar, that would be great. I would also accept patchwork. Get in on the ground floor of this scum catching opportunity! #girlboss

I think it's a fair criticism.
You're coming into the game very hard on a slot that merely posted they don't have time to read the 5 pages. If this is how you typically play regardless of alignment then i won't take too much issue. But still i find it independently to be more likely coming from scum that wants to take a grand standing early but does it by pushing an lurker slot.

I can see this. Neither have anything memorable. Could this be a prefer town but backup scum partner situation?

What an arbitrary and fake thought. This can be scum.

I don't really think so.

If you're going to defend someone at the first sign of pressure, at least provide a reason. Otherwise, kindly let me do my thing.

this is the second time blue has jumped in like this, I thought the interaction when I was pressuring drew was very similar where he doubled down on the insulting comment drew made to me.

Notably drew has still done fuck all this game.

[SquirtleSquad]

squirtle what do ur main reads look like outside of drew

I think I've stated my reads pretty plainly already.

[SquirtleSquad]

But ok I think patchwork is town, I think firebringer is town very strongly, I think drew is scum. I think ranger and blue are the top of the null scum pile.

Other than that lots of null pings.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am down to policy lim N_M for funsies.

[SquirtleSquad]

this is the second time blue has jumped in like this, I thought the interaction when I was pressuring drew was very similar where he doubled down on the insulting comment drew made to me.

Notably drew has still done fuck all this game.

No, I specifically repeated that comment because you were being an overly aggro buzzkill and could stand to dial it down a little - playing like you have been is going to be a drain on you and everyone else because others aren't likely to match the high level of intensity you seem to be expecting, which will lead to a lot of frustration.

Lighten up, squirt.

This is also personally insulting to me. I am once again asking you to stop making comments that are personally insulting to me.

I did nothing outside the bounds of normal mafia play. I asked for a player to play the game when they weren't doing so, and your defense of their continued refusal to play the game is noted. Quite frankly the claim that this:

I responded to his saying nope to my firebringer town read with what I thought was pretty good reasoning.

Even if he didn't agree with that, I was attempting to start a dialogue, I would expect a town player to be interested in using that hook to try to sort me, or at least to have some sort of interaction which was readable.

He responded by ignoring it completely and interaction with the fluff post directly above it to continue fluff posting. All the things he's said seem either contrived or actively unhelpful.

is "overly aggro" is quite frankly absurd so if you could kindly take your insults elsewhere and play the fucking game instead that would be dope.

[SquirtleSquad]

But ok I think patchwork is town, I think firebringer is town very strongly, I think drew is scum. I think ranger and blue are the top of the null scum pile.

Other than that lots of null pings.

You have 5 reads in a 30 page game?

Holy deliberate misrep batman.

[SquirtleSquad]

The claim that you don't know the difference between disagreeing with someone and saying "you must be real fun at parties" and "you are a buzzkill" is also absurd if you're an adult.

[SquirtleSquad]

I think cakez is definitely in his scum range but its too early for me to tell if its also his town range.

[SquirtleSquad]

live laugh lactate.

[SquirtleSquad]

is that thought about the game perchance?

[SquirtleSquad]

I...what?

[SquirtleSquad]

I think I got tied up on the fact that you were simultaneously talking about black and and unnamed person and it wasn't clear to me who you were referring to at different parts of the thought.

[SquirtleSquad]

But ok I think patchwork is town, I think firebringer is town very strongly, I think drew is scum. I think ranger and blue are the top of the null scum pile.

Other than that lots of null pings.

You have 5 reads in a 30 page game?

Holy deliberate misrep batman.

No, that was a genuine question - sheep asked you what your main reads were and I thought you gave a surprisingly small amount in response. I personally think there's a lot more alignment indicative content, so this was surprising to me, and I asked about it. I don't think it's impossible for a townie to not have reads, but I wanted clarity on your perspective.

You're...really on edge and treat every comment like it's a personal attack when it's not. I...don't think you're scum, probably. I'm not attacking you. Please stop reacting with such extreme hostility.

I have reads and I have reads. I gave the ones I think are better than random. Lot of null pings I thought pretty clearly implied that a lot of players have pinged me in both directions and it felt like if you were engaging with my post in good faith you would have realized that instead of zeroing directly in on the people I felt strongly enough about to name.

I will once again state: I am not reacting with hostility except when you personally insult me. This is not me reacting with hostility any more than you going "you only have 5 reads in a 30 page game is?" my reaction here is completely game related. I do not think its a fair interpretation of my post to say "you only have 5 reads" and it is extremely common shorthand to boil down "there's a bunch of stuff in either direction" as null. That does not mean that I have no read there, but rather that the read is muddy. This is mafia 101.

I am once again asking you to stop trying to characterize my emotional mindstate.

[SquirtleSquad]

Further, I have been consistently calling out those alignment pings as they happen in real time so it feels completely disingenuous for you to ignore that context in order to zero in on the post I made to put my top alignment thoughts in one place in response to a question. That's why I think its a misrep. It is abundantly clear that I don't just have thoughts on 5 people, and interpreting that post to suggest that I do is actively silly if you read *gestures vaguely at all of my other posts*

[SquirtleSquad]

i dont think it was abundantly clear, and I do think SquirtleTurtle's overreacting a bit

I think its pretty clear you're not actually reading the game.

If only that was alignment indicative for you.

[SquirtleSquad]

If we could get some more votes on WhemeStar, that would be great. I would also accept patchwork. Get in on the ground floor of this scum catching opportunity! #girlboss

I think it's a fair criticism.
You're coming into the game very hard on a slot that merely posted they don't have time to read the 5 pages. If this is how you typically play regardless of alignment then i won't take too much issue. But still i find it independently to be more likely coming from scum that wants to take a grand standing early but does it by pushing an lurker slot.

I can see this. Neither have anything memorable. Could this be a prefer town but backup scum partner situation?

What an arbitrary and fake thought. This can be scum.

I don't really think so.

If you're going to defend someone at the first sign of pressure, at least provide a reason. Otherwise, kindly let me do my thing.

this is the second time blue has jumped in like this, I thought the interaction when I was pressuring drew was very similar where he doubled down on the insulting comment drew made to me.

Notably drew has still done fuck all this game.

Please explain how I have done fuck all?

And you are calling me scum because of how I play basically every single game, especially the early part of a game.

People say my case on sheep is dumb(which I still don't get, they explicitly only said to not look at their scum game only after I pointed out they were scum that game).

But, you are using the way I play the game as not just 'hey that makes him kinda scummy' but as your LITERAL HARDEST SCUM READ.

On top of the fact I don't have to play the game by your terms, if you couldn't see that I was joking around with 'FB is always scum' and tried to pigeon hole a srz bizness post, I am not gonna seriously interact. Maybe I should have just stated it was a joke, but then that ruins the fun, hence the comment I made after that.

TL;Dr You are completely off base

Can I get thoughts on the game instead of a wall of stuff that is not about the game?

[SquirtleSquad]

But ok I think patchwork is town, I think firebringer is town very strongly, I think drew is scum. I think ranger and blue are the top of the null scum pile.

Other than that lots of null pings.

You have 5 reads in a 30 page game?

Holy deliberate misrep batman.

No, that was a genuine question - sheep asked you what your main reads were and I thought you gave a surprisingly small amount in response. I personally think there's a lot more alignment indicative content, so this was surprising to me, and I asked about it. I don't think it's impossible for a townie to not have reads, but I wanted clarity on your perspective.

You're...really on edge and treat every comment like it's a personal attack when it's not. I...don't think you're scum, probably. I'm not attacking you. Please stop reacting with such extreme hostility.

I have reads and I have reads. I gave the ones I think are better than random. Lot of null pings I thought pretty clearly implied that a lot of players have pinged me in both directions and it felt like if you were engaging with my post in good faith you would have realized that instead of zeroing directly in on the people I felt strongly enough about to name.

I will once again state: I am not reacting with hostility except when you personally insult me. This is not me reacting with hostility any more than you going "you only have 5 reads in a 30 page game is?" my reaction here is completely game related. I do not think its a fair interpretation of my post to say "you only have 5 reads" and it is extremely common shorthand to boil down "there's a bunch of stuff in either direction" as null. That does not mean that I have no read there, but rather that the read is muddy. This is mafia 101.

I am once again asking you to stop trying to characterize my emotional mindstate.

This is again really unnecessarily hostile, dude. I asked a question, I explained what I meant, I am not even trying to push you as scum, so calling me asking a question a "misrep" is annoying, because it's not really true - I asked specifically with the intention of getting you to clarify your stance.

I could quibble over the fact that having a bunch of muddy/null reads is functionally equivalent to having no read, but I think that's a semantic argument rather than an alignment indicative one, so I'm not going to pursue that.

I'm...just going to stop talking to you and hope you calm down in the future and realize this is a really unreasonable way to play the game. I don't think anything productive is going to come out of me continuing to interact with you. Demanding me to only post a certain way at you when I've been trying to be polite after getting warned by the mod makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

If someone is being hostile to you maybe you should ask if your actions caused that hostility.

I have had plenty of disagreements this game without hostility, klick and my disagreement about sheep comes to mind. Perhaps the way you are interacting with me is the problem.

You don't get to insult someone and then throw up your hands and say "Wow you're being so unreasonable and *emotional* for no reason!" when it was the way you interacted with me that causes me to react to you like this. If you want me to respond to you without hostility, you could try talking to me with some amount of respect instead of insulting me.

This also is an attempt to trivialize the point I am making which, once again, is game related. I didn't call your statement a misrep because I was annoyed at you, I called it a misrep because I think it was a misrep, and I think that reading of my post was unreasonable in a way I think is more likely to come from scum.

[SquirtleSquad]

Squirt, is about your terrible read on me.

And I am not upset, just saw the comment about me not doing fuck all and wanted to respond before I forgot it.

I will say though, this is the most I have ever seen FL post on D1

This is fair I just want more from you.

[SquirtleSquad]

i feel like i warned you all in sign ups and some of yall still treat this like its any other mafia game.

U should adjust ur expectations accordingly.

I dunno, I'm trying to de-escalate though obviously I'm not the right one to do the job, Wheme is probably right I should step away. You go ahead and drive, boss.

My problem right now has nothing to do with the original issue, its that you seem to be trying to characterize my playing the game (i.e. saying your post felt like a misrep to me) as me being hostile to you OOG when in fact that is just me making a post in a mafia game about another players actions in said mafia game and was not based off of anything other than that.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't usually find that a great way to catch scum, maybe because for me personally I don't tend to struggle with having real thoughts as scum and actually maybe the opposite is a little true where I feel pressure to solve the game so I try to force stuff a little.

[SquirtleSquad]

Votes that I accept as good reasoning, in no particular order:
Whemestar
Sheep
Dr Drew
Blue*
Invisibility

Boring votes with less than good reasoning:
patchwork
Sir Cakez
Magical Girl
Jjh
Titus

*if you think that Blue is scum you’re wrong but it’s valid

what have titus jjh and magical girl done to get in that bottom tier?

[SquirtleSquad]

I guess cakez too.

Patchwork i agree on. there's a body of patchwork there to go off of.

[SquirtleSquad]

What are we claiming is a scumslip this time?

[SquirtleSquad]

Oh I see you quoted it.

[SquirtleSquad]

Man people gotta stop throwing around the term slip like its candy.

"This post might have information about a mechanic we don't know about" is just simply not a scum slip.

Ironically the only one who could possibly be betraying TMI about the existence of such a system in that interaction is skygazer lmao.

But that's ALSO not a scum slip.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am looking pretty scummy according to cakes who has not said a single reason why that is the case.

[SquirtleSquad]

21-30

lots and lots of posts i am getting nothing from. not really feeling my reads shift on anyone at top of page 23.

i don't know how to read drew tbh. i see him getting some flak and wouldn't necessarily support or oppose.

VOTE: SirCakez

wow FINALLY something interesting. can't wait to hear more about this.

i agree with klick in 617. squirtle is looking pretty scummy yall.

magical girl can go into nulltown because their burst of posts around page 26 feels generally town motivated. klick's readslist was good too. i disagree with some but good content for me.

VOTE: Cakez

I was thinking scum might enter the thread a certain way and so far this fits

because of the training dummy post? that's a pretty lame reason if so.

readslist cont.

(Flavor Leaf, Norwegian, Firebringer)
(Titus, Whemestar, Kittytacky, Invisibility, Magical Girl, Klick)
null - Blue, Not_Mafia, Doctor Drew, Black, Skygazer, Metens still thinking about these people, anyone else i forgot etc
(Patchwork, Ranger)
(Chandra, Squirtle, Pink ball)

Like what is this? He agrees with klick in 617? Thats the post where Klick says "is someone going to call out the squirtlesquad problem."

He's saying he agrees with klick but what klick is referring to is that I am listed twice in FLs read list. A person who Cakez is listing as his top town read. Klick is not talking about me in any way in that post.

Are you actually reading the game cakez or just trying to look like you're reading it?

[SquirtleSquad]

i agree with klick in 617. squirtle is looking pretty scummy yall.

That's not what he meant. It was in reference to the reads list being quoted.

get off of my side immediately :<

[SquirtleSquad]

I think scum!cakez isn't really paying attention to the thread and mistook me for an easy newbie to park on/push for today.

But he's sorely mistaken.

[SquirtleSquad]

i agree with klick in 617. squirtle is looking pretty scummy yall.

That's not what he meant. It was in reference to the reads list being quoted.

get off of my side immediately :<

for context to blue. this was intended with a jovial, lighthearted tone.

[SquirtleSquad]

UNVOTE:

naked unvotes are wolfy

gg

one down

VOTE: sheep
this shit is just so scummy. it's the exact type of fake content i try to generate as scum, to get people to think im doing something.

sort of like what you're doing right now?

[SquirtleSquad]

UNVOTE:

naked unvotes are wolfy

gg

one down

VOTE: sheep
this shit is just so scummy. it's the exact type of fake content i try to generate as scum, to get people to think im doing something.

Yeah Cakez is town

Disagree dawg.

[SquirtleSquad]

ok, I'll let you convince me while I mosey on over here. Don't look pink ball I'm not doing anything you'd be interested in. Just a guy walking in the woods.

VOTE: SirCakez

[SquirtleSquad]

21-30

lots and lots of posts i am getting nothing from. not really feeling my reads shift on anyone at top of page 23.

i don't know how to read drew tbh. i see him getting some flak and wouldn't necessarily support or oppose.

VOTE: SirCakez

wow FINALLY something interesting. can't wait to hear more about this.

i agree with klick in 617. squirtle is looking pretty scummy yall.

magical girl can go into nulltown because their burst of posts around page 26 feels generally town motivated. klick's readslist was good too. i disagree with some but good content for me.

VOTE: Cakez

I was thinking scum might enter the thread a certain way and so far this fits

because of the training dummy post? that's a pretty lame reason if so.

readslist cont.

(Flavor Leaf, Norwegian, Firebringer)
(Titus, Whemestar, Kittytacky, Invisibility, Magical Girl, Klick)
null - Blue, Not_Mafia, Doctor Drew, Black, Skygazer, Metens still thinking about these people, anyone else i forgot etc
(Patchwork, Ranger)
(Chandra, Squirtle, Pink ball)

Like what is this? He agrees with klick in 617? Thats the post where Klick says "is someone going to call out the squirtlesquad problem."

He's saying he agrees with klick but what klick is referring to is that I am listed twice in FLs read list. A person who Cakez is listing as his top town read. Klick is not talking about me in any way in that post.

Are you actually reading the game cakez or just trying to look like you're reading it?

i mean i am kinda fucked up right now but i am most definitely reading the game. i hate your approach to this game. it feels cynical and scummy. i haven't felt good about any of your posts. im p sure you're someone i know and its not giving me good vibes.

yes I'm someone you know but perhaps you could expand more about how my approach feels "cynical and scummy."

Perhaps with examples and more than "wow squirtle is so scummy" while citing a post that wasn't saying what you were suggesting it did as reasoning?

[SquirtleSquad]

thats true.

[SquirtleSquad]

i feel kinda overwhelmed with this game.

I'd like to lim cakez or doctor drew. I think I'd still like to lim blue.

I liked rangers posts recently when they haven't been just unexplained read lists.

I think I'm gunna just chill for a bit.

[SquirtleSquad]

Because nothing cakez has done in his entrance feels like these are real thoughts he has. In particular his comments on me, which seemed to be something of a focus of his, felt really lackluster and poorly thought out.

@drew

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: patchwork

This feels like a bus?

Believable, just one problem.
This feels like Titus-scum.
You lack passion.

snip

I agree.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: patchwork

This feels like a bus?

Believable, just one problem.
This feels like Titus-scum.
You lack passion.

snip

I agree.

Hmm, last time I saw scumTitus she actually showed some fire.

what game was that

[SquirtleSquad]

I associate WIM with town titus quite a bit.

[SquirtleSquad]

I will say credence to FLs point about the reads being political, my liking ranger more HAS coincided with me moving up the read list.

[SquirtleSquad]

Wouldn't it being a huge game make it easier to get a SR? I find it harder to read people in micros tbh.

Not really, in my opinion- there's a lot more slots to evaluate which leads to more uncertainty, a lot of space where players aren't making their alignments clear. I certainly don't have a lot of significant scumreads as of right now. Not a lot has jumped out to me, which might mean scum are inactive, or they're simply able to blend well because we haven't really had any wagons of significance. I don't think not having a scumread is surprising but it's kind of dependent on the player. I think Norwegian has shown some indicators that he's trying to sort the game, regardless.

But ok I think patchwork is town, I think firebringer is town very strongly, I think drew is scum. I think ranger and blue are the top of the null scum pile.

Other than that lots of null pings.

You have 5 reads in a 30 page game?

Holy deliberate misrep batman.

No, that was a genuine question - sheep asked you what your main reads were and I thought you gave a surprisingly small amount in response. I personally think there's a lot more alignment indicative content, so this was surprising to me, and I asked about it. I don't think it's impossible for a townie to not have reads, but I wanted clarity on your perspective.

:thonk:

[SquirtleSquad]

titus when are you going to mech solve this game.

its kinda bullshit you havent done so already.

[SquirtleSquad]

I do.

[SquirtleSquad]

I read all people who I think have really wide scum ranges this way.

Gtyh what's your read on me?

Before this latest push I would have said scum but I'm not sure now. I tend to associate solving WIM with town!titus and I haven't seen any of that from you up until now. I will say a lot of this stuff seems to be very surface level and not solvy but its enough for me to want to give you a pass to let you cook.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: Cakez

I was thinking scum might enter the thread a certain way and so far this fits

How so?

Blue is asking a lot of questions while contributing nothing.

You should probably wait to see where I actually go with my posts before jumping to conclusions, because that one definitely had a purpose.

Let's go back to that. You still never explained why you think that scum wouldn't fish like Cakez did. How do you think scum would fish?

I think accusations of rolefishing outnumber actual instances of rolefishing by something like 100 to 1. It's not actually something scum do very often at all. It is something scum use to push townies because they take a thing that looks surface-level bad and apply a cookie cutter tell to it. Even asking me "How do you think scum would fish?" feels like a leading question.


If he made that post as scum (and I'm not ruling out the possibility), it almost certainly wasn't done with that level of intentionality. He doesn't strike me as the type of player to put that much thought into what he's posting.

I agree with this post. I feel similarly about "slips" and "tmi" to a large degree.

[SquirtleSquad]

Squirtle is both times in that list so FL accusing someone out of political positioning while not being consistent with his own list is bad.

Or that’s what I think that Klick meant

Why answer for Klick?

It was more like, answering

to

Klick rather than

for

Where is Klick, by the by.

[SquirtleSquad]

Oh the Masons thing was serious

I don't understand why that was claimed

You guys really think that was serious? Lmao. Any mason claim from Ranger or FA is a joke until d3 or so.

I have no idea what to believe at this point...

just ignore it would be my advice.

[SquirtleSquad]

are we finally doing the good doctor?

VOTE: doctorpus drewthanial

[SquirtleSquad]

when he flips red I become an IC.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't associate lurking with klicks town game so I am concerned there but also I could see that maybe he's just a bit overwhelmed by the giant game. I'm having trouble with it too.

[SquirtleSquad]

come on pb wyd

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: Dr. Drew

Here, that's my real vote

I gave you space from the super early game after you said this

Also pink ball is pretty obviously hinting at the fact that doctor drew is the secret scum read he has and I want to see how he justifies that read to better inform my read of pink ball.

I have to let Dr. Drew do his own thing to see if that scumread is justified or not, that's why I said I would state it 6 to 7 days from now

what were your original thoughts at the time and how has the behavior since evolved them?

[SquirtleSquad]

If you were trying your best you would be voting someone else!

did you miss my question bruvenor?

[SquirtleSquad]

invis could be a baddy idk.

[SquirtleSquad]

invis could be a baddy idk.

why

I don't feel like you care very much about finding scum. All your engagements seem to be like this one where you pop in, ask a question and then you don't tend to follow up.

[SquirtleSquad]

Basically I don't town read you, hence you could be a baddy.

[SquirtleSquad]

I think black is town, because I think the things shes focused on seem idk out there.

Like I don't think most of what she's doing is likely to catch scum but I don't really think its the kind of stuff scum would poke at to look like they're trying to catch scum either.

[SquirtleSquad]

Out there? I wouldn't really say I'm focused on anything. I'm just engaging with people and trying to form reads

Idk what you mean by this because you sorta agreed with me about Cakez and we agree about Invisibility...so how "out there" am I really?

I don't mean your opinions I mean your questions

[SquirtleSquad]

hi

[SquirtleSquad]

I will say the dissonance between complaining about there being so many pages to read while making a string of like 20 posts to express one discreet thought each is extremely funny.

[SquirtleSquad]

what if we're all just town

wouldn't put it past alisae to do this at some point.
probably not this game.

actually i take it back alisae would probably despise making an all town game.

all scum game way more likely.

[SquirtleSquad]

I will say the dissonance between complaining about there being so many pages to read while making a string of like 20 posts to express one discreet thought each is extremely funny.

Mildly amusing at best.
Maybe on a different day very funny.


side note: someone said its weird not to have many reads at like 50 pages
and i have like only 4-5 serious townreads and one sort of half scumread more suspicion of pinkie than anything else

why i got to have scumreads
maybe i just like everyone too much to scumread them
except pink ball because obviously i hate him. SO OBVIOUS I HAVE A HUGE DISDAIN FOR THAT BUNDLE OF JOY

you're still just mad I said you weren't funny earlier.

[SquirtleSquad]

I just looked at who in this game I would be willing to kill and its more than half of the playerlist.

1 Save the Dragons
3 SirCakez
5 Pink Ball
6 KittyTacky
7 WhemeStar
8 Blue.
9 Skygazer
10 Doctor Drew
14 Klick
15 Invisibility
19 Not_Mafia
21 Metens
23 Magical Girl

[SquirtleSquad]

probably you can take pink ball save the dragons and klick off there because I would want to give them all more time to do stuff.

but yeah.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't really like playing scum, sometimes my guilt gets so bad at being an evil boi that I just can't help it but claim.

unlucky tbh.

[SquirtleSquad]

I just looked at who in this game I would be willing to kill and its more than half of the playerlist.

1 Save the Dragons
3 SirCakez
5 Pink Ball
6 KittyTacky
7 WhemeStar
8 Blue.
9 Skygazer
10 Doctor Drew
14 Klick
15 Invisibility
19 Not_Mafia
21 Metens
23 Magical Girl

Take away 1, 8, 23

And I am down for it.

can you explain those subtractions?

[SquirtleSquad]

lots and lots of useless posts, wow

fuck, true

but you are adding to it with posts like this.

and you don't think thats really funny?

[SquirtleSquad]

this is just a very wolfy post to me, calling votes "boring with bad reasoning" is just a very wolfy thing that ive never seen before

if you've never seen it before how do you know its wolfy?

[SquirtleSquad]

I think I like these sheep isos a lot.

[SquirtleSquad]

drew if I put a yeerk to your head what would you say the scum team is

[SquirtleSquad]

i feel kinda overwhelmed with this game.

I'd like to lim cakez or doctor drew. I think I'd still like to lim blue.

I liked rangers posts recently when they haven't been just unexplained read lists.

I think I'm gunna just chill for a bit.

Squirtle going all in on me as one of their top elim choices after exactly one interaction doesn't feel real at all. Feels very OMGUS/discredity

I just looked at who in this game I would be willing to kill and its more than half of the playerlist.

1 Save the Dragons
3 SirCakez
5 Pink Ball
6 KittyTacky
7 WhemeStar
8 Blue.
9 Skygazer
10 Doctor Drew
14 Klick
15 Invisibility
19 Not_Mafia
21 Metens
23 Magical Girl

ya dude I'm all in on you.

Real all in.

Try reading the fucking game.

[SquirtleSquad]

You haven't done a damn thing but shade me all game for basically no reason whatsoever and actively misunderstood things to do so along the way, so yeah I think you're greater than rand scum.

How about you provide a thought on literally any other aspect of the game.

[SquirtleSquad]

No I'm trying to get you to do ANYthing.

[SquirtleSquad]

Like if you're tunneled you're legit playing the most embarrassing town game of all time and if you're scum you're gunna flip well before me so I have a hard time figuring out what your angle is here. Your points against me don't make any sense, and its hard to even call them points because you've ignored me every time I asked for examples and just said you "hate the way I'm playing" with no further explanation.

[SquirtleSquad]

Its legit frustrating dude.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am getting general town vibes from Titus' posts here. I feel she is actually doing some town stuff and not just existing like she does as scum. Someone already said WIM = town Titus

Yeah, it was FUCKING ME.

JFC.

[SquirtleSquad]

How did you internalize that "someone said WIM = town for titus" and not notice its the person you're tunnel scum reading for no reason?

[SquirtleSquad]

I am getting general town vibes from Titus' posts here. I feel she is actually doing some town stuff and not just existing like she does as scum. Someone already said WIM = town Titus

Why do I feel like a big dummy and never heard the term WIM?

Want it more. Essentially fire or like drive.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am not stopping you from doing anything but I am not going to refrain from commenting on your posts when they contain such obvious nonsense such as scum reading me and then attributing a point I made to "someone" in order to agree with it to call someone town.

[SquirtleSquad]

I legit did not remember who made that post, it wasn't some conspiracy. I'm getting conflicted on your slot now because some of my TRs have you as town and I feel like your reaction now feels pretty genuinely like annoyed town. But I keep getting scum pinged by things, I'll finish reading and see what I find.

NAME ONE!

FOR THE LIKE FOURTH TIME!

Name the damn ping and explain it!

[SquirtleSquad]

And its more like yo if I'm scum reading someone, and then I see a point they make that I agree with, I notice that and you know, maybe sort of think if this effects my scum read of them at all.

You're clearly not reading my content to determine my alignment if you didn't notice that?

[SquirtleSquad]

at the same time i wanna see this play out bc i want better reads on both of them

LAMIST

[SquirtleSquad]

it's cray cray to me that you saw me point out (I did it multiple times) that my read of titus is dependent on WIM fire being more likely to come from town, saw me use that in real time to try to sort titus, and then didn't remember that at all as part of your attempt to form a read on me.

Like if that is actually what happened what the actual elephants.

[SquirtleSquad]

people toss words like LAMIST around like candy these days

I don't see a town motivation for making that post. If you actually wanted to watch it play out it would have been much more effective to simply say nothing.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't see a town motivation for making that post. If you actually wanted to watch it play out it would have been much more effective to simply say nothing.

bold assumption i know how to play mafia games effectively

Explain your town motivation for making that post then

[SquirtleSquad]

oh shit im late

its me

jeez 17 pages while i'm gone
i'll read through it in a bit

hi it's me

fuck i got distracted during my catch-up and now i have to continue it
later, though- i have work to do now

its me

ok and.... it literally doesn't fucking matter

this isn't a productive use of your time mate. just ignore.

[SquirtleSquad]

At some point you'll have to realize that if everyone's willing to vote me or be suspicious about me, is because I have no partners. Do you think if I had partners I would get bussed on D1? Either I deep wolf and win the game or I DECIDE to get bussed to give my partners a pass. I control the game when I'm scum, even when you think that you have some control is because I wanted to make you feel that way.

this is a horrific post.

there's 20+ players in this game my dude, you have like 4-5 votes?

[SquirtleSquad]

And when I say 'everyone's willing to vote me':
FB, Wheme and Cakez
Invis
Both Blue and Squirtle saying they don't mind if I die
Pseudo suspicion by FL
Black with the classic "uh that's very wolfy dude ngl"
sheep saying "PB scummy lol"
And everyone else who I don't give a fuck because they aren't memorable enough
(That's not true, I love you all)

scum partners never distance while hoping a wagon dies down?

[SquirtleSquad]

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

[SquirtleSquad]

So what would you do if I jumped on?

[SquirtleSquad]

If your claim is you won't be limmed today than why is it scummy for people to vote you? What are scum in that hypothetical world trying to accomplish? Is the claim that they're all bad and don't know that you won't be limmed?

[SquirtleSquad]

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to pocket him because I want to work with him. I'm being pretty upfront about what I'm doing. In this game, you have to choose to trust people if you want to win, I'm opting to trust him, if he wants to say no he's free to do so.

What is your problem with me, exactly? I feel like I can't breathe without you throwing shade in my direction.

I think you're scum. I thought that should be obvious.

[SquirtleSquad]

what information are u gathering from ur own reaction?

People jumping on a town wagon. That's useful information to me and to everyone who will trust that I'm town in the not so distant future

so if you're not saying people voting you are scummy what information do you glean from this?

[SquirtleSquad]

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to pocket him because I want to work with him. I'm being pretty upfront about what I'm doing. In this game, you have to choose to trust people if you want to win, I'm opting to trust him, if he wants to say no he's free to do so.

What is your problem with me, exactly? I feel like I can't breathe without you throwing shade in my direction.

I think you're scum. I thought that should be obvious.

Because...?

I don't like the directions you go in, I think the way you played around my slot has many times been extremely opportunistic. I think you tend to chime in during situations where I think it shifts thread momentum in a way I don't like. I think you've played to discredit or prop up slots at times where, if I were scum, I would also be inclined to do so.

I think there isn't appetite to get you limmed right now and I don't feel super confident in knowing exactly what you were trying to accomplish with the aforementioned slots until I get some flips, and to preempt the question I'm not going to go pull quotes for you or anything, though I think I've called out a bunch in real time. (the shade you are referring to)

But I am cataloguing the things I see that I don't like as I go along.

[SquirtleSquad]

I could summarize the first paragraph just by "you seem to have an agenda" if it makes it more easy to understand.

[SquirtleSquad]

A big example of the opportunism was the fight we had about the "only 5 scum reads" comment where you continually tried to paint me as simply being upset and hostile to you in order to ignore and minimize the point I was making. I wasn't mad, I was making a point that I still believe, and your response to it was essentially to be like "stop being so hostile bro" while ignoring the meat of my argument.

[SquirtleSquad]

but I ain't like trying to convince you that you're scum so like, I'm not super interested in having a protracted argument about this either.

[SquirtleSquad]

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to pocket him because I want to work with him. I'm being pretty upfront about what I'm doing. In this game, you have to choose to trust people if you want to win, I'm opting to trust him, if he wants to say no he's free to do so.

What is your problem with me, exactly? I feel like I can't breathe without you throwing shade in my direction.

I think you're scum. I thought that should be obvious.

Because...?

I don't like the directions you go in, I think the way you played around my slot has many times been extremely opportunistic. I think you tend to chime in during situations where I think it shifts thread momentum in a way I don't like. I think you've played to discredit or prop up slots at times where, if I were scum, I would also be inclined to do so.

I think there isn't appetite to get you limmed right now and I don't feel super confident in knowing exactly what you were trying to accomplish with the aforementioned slots until I get some flips, and to preempt the question I'm not going to go pull quotes for you or anything, though I think I've called out a bunch in real time. (the shade you are referring to)

But I am cataloguing the things I see that I don't like as I go along.

I don't think I've ever really expressed suspicion of you so I don't know where you get the impression I was being "opportunistic". I expressed displeasure with how you were interacting with the game but it wasn't a read on your alignment. (I don't really want to re-open old wounds here but felt it necessary to clarify. I would appreciate if we could play amicably even if you continue to believe I'm scum).


Thanks though, I appreciate the answer. It clarifies a lot for me - really.

I think you were testing the waters of a scum read multiple times and never got there because of thread politics.

The way you interacted with my slots at multiple points felt as if you were scum reading me but the fact that you never got there but also left me off your list of people you wouldn't vote for is something that has pinged me a lot. Basically you've directed a lot of negative attention towards my slot without actually committing to trying to push me.

You say you were trying to stop antagonism but I continue to reject that framing. Here is the post you claimed was antagonistic.

I responded to his saying nope to my firebringer town read with what I thought was pretty good reasoning.

Even if he didn't agree with that, I was attempting to start a dialogue, I would expect a town player to be interested in using that hook to try to sort me, or at least to have some sort of interaction which was readable.

He responded by ignoring it completely and interaction with the fluff post directly above it to continue fluff posting. All the things he's said seem either contrived or actively unhelpful.

It's just simply not. You chose to say I was not fun at parties and a buzz kill because of this post. Which is simply just a normal mafia post.

The antagonism debate, like it or not, is also a big part of my read on you because I thought and still think you were being completely unreasonable as was pointed out by multiple other players in the game at the time.

So since I don't really believe I was actually being antagonistic, I look for motivation for why you want to paint me that way and I get to the debate about "5 scum reads" and I see how you used what you were projecting my emotions to be as a way to minimize my thread impact and I think the conclusion draws itself.

[SquirtleSquad]

there are two wagons right now.

how about you take some stances?

[SquirtleSquad]

Is there a post restriction where people have to talk about 'thread politics' constantly?

people like to think mafia is a game about votes and wagons but it's not. Those things are primarily symptoms. Mafia is a game about power and thread momentum.

[SquirtleSquad]

I got beat by the previous posts, so I'll just amend that I acknowledge 1826 and will again state that at no point in that interaction was I actively expressing a scumread of you

I think you were testing the waters of a scum read multiple times and never got there because of thread politics.

The way you interacted with my slots at multiple points felt as if you were scum reading me but the fact that you never got there but also left me off your list of people you wouldn't vote for is something that has pinged me a lot. Basically you've directed a lot of negative attention towards my slot without actually committing to trying to push me.

To be perfectly honest?

I thought you might be town but left you off the list because your interaction with me made me feel bad and so I wouldn't care if you died. That's harsh but it's the truth, I'm not immune to feeling petty. I am a bit surprised people put so much weight on their non-inclusion on that list, although maybe I shouldn't be.


Some time later I began to wonder if you had actively manipulated me by guilt tripping me for expressing vaguely negative sentiment toward you. The whole thing left me feeling dirty.

This was partly why I questioned you. If there's a behavior that qualifies as "testing the waters of a scum read", surely taking potshots at me at every available opportunity must qualify as such. I couldn't fully understand where you were coming from with your read on me, so I asked you directly to see what your mindset was, because interrogating people directly about their reads on me is one of the best tools I have for determining. I think your explanation is plausible to me as a legitimate thought process. I mostly see where you're coming from now and understand it. I think your impression of me is misguided but genuine, and I clearly got off on the wrong foot with you, but I am hopeful this can be resolved in the future.

So, basically, I don't mind if you're paranoid of me.

In a completely out of game sense you should consider that your impact matters more than your intention and maybe when someone tells you something you've said is insulting to them, you should apologize and move on with your life. This goes double for if you see someone referring to something as insulting when it is said by someone else and you choose to pile on and double down on that insult.

That's the last I'll say about this except to discuss it in the sense of what I view as your thread manipulation.

[SquirtleSquad]

The fact that you seem like an otherwise reasonable human being makes me more suspicious of your slot not less.

[SquirtleSquad]

Also I am not testing the waters of a scum read, I have a scum read on you. I have expressed several times that I think you are scum.

[SquirtleSquad]

When did I complain about alts?

[SquirtleSquad]

No one should ever be worried about me alting. I don't think I've ever completed a single alt game without slipping.

[SquirtleSquad]

anyway how you doing firebringer. Are you still town in light of this momentous alt slip?

[SquirtleSquad]

I have been told that I need to do this so here are the posts I made mistakenly on main

You still haven't apologized for insulting me and then when i got upset about it essentially going 'u mad bro lighten up'

Outside of some barbed words right after it happened i have not treated you differently than i would any other slot in this game.

Eh fuck. I knew looking at the phone on my game was a bad idea.

This is why I can't have nice alts.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm so fucking sad.

[SquirtleSquad]

Could this be the game where me and FB both actually town read each other and work together with no paranoia? There's no treasury for you to fuck up here.

[SquirtleSquad]

You think I waited until a slot was getting replaced to try to get it killed when clearly there was no appetite for doing so?

The replacement thing barely has anything to do with this tbh. I'm more concerned about your drastic flip on jjh. I'm not sure if it's scum motivated though

I do agree with you on Drew. I think he's town, and this wagon is concerning

And i’d like for you to not kill the momentum on this wagon.
The game needs more deaths so there are less slots to worry about.

Play seriously come onnn

Just like build an half-assed wagon with enough votes to matter and i’ll join it i guess.
If y’all can even manage that.

i wanna see titus' vote count theory thing

Can’t say i usually share that excitement, but hey maybe that’s exactly what this game needs.

There's always that one guy that posts too much game commentary. The game doesn't need anything except more content from slots like yours

I like this post and also blacks approach to norwees slot. I think I agree that norwee has NSE (not solving energy) but also I am pretty certain its because of the size of the game which is why I haven't pushed on norwee at all so I like that black picked up on this and had a relatively similar reaction.

Norwees tone usually feels different when he's scum and I haven't picked up on it yet.

[SquirtleSquad]

Norwees tone usually feels different when he's scum and I haven't picked up on it yet.

This is good to know and I'll consider it. What is his tone like when he's scum?

Kinda petulant and smarmy tbh.

[SquirtleSquad]

He reacts to suspicion on him in a really condescending way a lot of the time when he's scum.

He feels...pure here. Tonally, I get the sense that he's annoyed at the game but not the sense that its related to him being scum.

[SquirtleSquad]

I feel like we're going to talk until deadline here, have 200 pages of useless info that nobody wants to read, and then need to rush some wagon that might be ill-adviced.
And i've tried to encourage wagon-building but it's been shut down.

I just looked at who in this game I would be willing to kill and its more than half of the playerlist.

1 Save the Dragons

3 SirCakez

5 Pink Ball

6 KittyTacky
7 WhemeStar
8 Blue.
9 Skygazer
10 Doctor Drew

14 Klick

15 Invisibility
19 Not_Mafia
21 Metens
23 Magical Girl

Pick one my guy

[SquirtleSquad]

I am already voting drew

[SquirtleSquad]

tm will be over at 6pm eastern tonight. Everyone should join the discord voice reveal!

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm glad you decided to stay in the game.

[SquirtleSquad]

Who did you think I was so I can be either offended or flattered

[SquirtleSquad]

I hate knowing Squirtle's identity, now I have to continue to analyze them even though they haven't pinged me once.

if it makes you feel better I also hate you knowing my identity.

[SquirtleSquad]

it sounds like your take on blue lines up reasonably close to mine, though.

[SquirtleSquad]

He reacts to suspicion on him in a really condescending way a lot of the time when he's scum.

He feels...pure here. Tonally, I get the sense that he's annoyed at the game but not the sense that its related to him being scum.

Has he faced enough suspicion to reveal those traits? Everyone has been ignoring him.

Hipothetically speaking, dear reader, if you were scum, would you accept this pact?

No chance.

This is a fair point but also I don't think scum!norwee would be particularly inclined to pop up in the thread complaining about the game like he's doing here, and also like I don't think necessarily it only comes out when he's under pressure. I think there's a mindset tonal thing that goes on with him that I've picked up the last few times we've played together.

[SquirtleSquad]

I still need to sit down with the game and determine whose house to burn down.

Sheep and Squirtle are the only slots I'm definitely not interested in. I wish this list were longer.

I still think fb is town for the very early mech stuff. I know it happened a long time ago but I think you should add him to the list.

I also feel really good about black.

[SquirtleSquad]

I do not feel like she has an agenda. I feel like her thoughts and posts are free flowing. What I said earlier is that I don't think her questions are likely to find scum but I also don't feel like they're fake either. I think she's poking into a lot of places that have low scum equity to poke.

I really liked her interaction around the norwee slot which I think she would have either ignored or pushed as scum but the fact that she saw norwees posts and came to the same overall conclusions as I did about them felt extremely +town to me.

[SquirtleSquad]

Let's have an honest talk on why she shouldn't be scumreading me in this game in about... 6 hours

idk you haven't exactly screamed town to me this game either my guy.

[SquirtleSquad]

Don't have much time right now, but started with the lowest poster.

I know I need to catch up.

The past post was by mewtaph.

I'll catch up hopefully (today)

I skimmed the last 3 pages and it doesnt seem interesting

~R

VOTE: Metens

kinda weak tbh.

[SquirtleSquad]

I think you are an extremely talented player who at the very least is competent at merging your ranges such that you should know that's a shitty argument.

[SquirtleSquad]

I do think the fact that the one hydra in the whole game has the lowest thread presence is kind of ???

+chance of being deliberate.

[SquirtleSquad]

I also feel really good about black.

This is refreshing

Ok so I was looking for a squirtle umbreon gif like the one you always post for patch.

And I found this monstrosity instead and since it is now living rent free in my head it has to go into yours too.

[SquirtleSquad]

Best page top ever actually.

[SquirtleSquad]

I also feel really good about black.

This is refreshing

Ok so I was looking for a squirtle umbreon gif like the one you always post for patch.

And I found this monstrosity instead and since it is now living rent free in my head it has to go into yours too.

DUDE I spent 5 minutes looking for one two and this nightmare was all I could find as well

And you didnt share it with me immediately? Wtf bro I thought we were friends.

[SquirtleSquad]

I found this one too. Possibly even more cursed?

[SquirtleSquad]

anyone feel free to explain Doctor Drew to me ^.^

hes scum. hope that helps.

[SquirtleSquad]

@Black
(In response to 1918 and you then poking at me complaining)

Anyway i feel like the whole Pink Ball questioning going on right now is not very helpful.
I’m not going to claim i’m an expert on this player, but what have they done to defend their slot if they are scum here? They just seem a bit self-righteous and calm in face of pressure, which i don’t really see them doing as scum unless they are really good at it.

I think pb might be the 2nd or 3rd best scum player in this PL fwiw.

[SquirtleSquad]

certainly top 10.

[SquirtleSquad]

I just checked and contingent on who blue is I think PB is the second best scum player in this PL.

[SquirtleSquad]

I wasn't sure if I'd rank me above you or not, but I think we're close. I ultimately decided you're better because you have more WIM than I do.

[SquirtleSquad]

I wouldn't be surprised if blue is someone up there. He talks like he really knows what he's doing. But its hard to say I don't have a good read on who it is, but definitely someone who knows their way around mafia.

My first guess was like fireisred because some of our interactions felt like arguments me and fireisred have had but I don't think thats right because I think fireisred exclusively phone posts and the punctuation etc is all different.

[SquirtleSquad]

I just checked and contingent on who blue is I think PB is the second best scum player in this PL.

But im in this game yo

You're like 4th at best.

[SquirtleSquad]

im up for wagoning black actually

I think pressuring Black is a lot more likely to be revealing than a wagon on someone who is a typical Day 1 elim.


For a fun exercise, look through Black's ISO and try to tell me what she actually believes about this game.

I seem to remember me and PB pushing her for exactly this in the just finished Team Mafia game.

The problem is we were scum and she was town.

[SquirtleSquad]

I think black frequently tends to look kind of directionless and unfocused as town.

[SquirtleSquad]

Seems to be a playstyle thing to me.

[SquirtleSquad]

it is obviously not intended as one but if it feels like one internalize it and work on it.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm tsq, everyone else knows from the slip so you might as well too.

[SquirtleSquad]

is that an important update

I think it would be more than fair for someone to have more paranoia about me than your average slot idk.

[SquirtleSquad]

in your reads list:
I think black is town. I think patch is town. I think blue is scum. I have fb as very strong town. I think kitty might be scum but I definitely disagree with a top town read.

just off the top of my head.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't really understand why scum can't make an observation like that. I feel like I do stuff like that frequently as scum.