Election! | GAME OVER

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yo, talk to me about Furtive. Where is your furtive read and if it's town right now, why?

I'm running on pure anger and frustration at this point and people need someone to have any level of WIM so here I fucking am.

It's lean town, for non-specific reasons that have built up over time. Generally I feel that he's been approaching the game uninformed, trying to reevaluate. Not like he has a specific gameplan. The "accidental lies" stuff with the minutes for example, I guess it's the "too blatant to be scum" argument but I think it also seemed more like town who genuinely convinced himself that his version of events was what happened and didn't bother to check.

I liked the SleepyKrew push too, because in retrospect I think it was the correct play at the time. Although that assumes scum didn't have a way to play around it, which maybe they did, in which case it would be terrible. So actually that's not a good reason to view him as town.

Meh. I guess I don't actually have a strong case that he's town but I also don't see the scum argument. He was really fishy in the last game I played with him and got wrongly killed for it and in HotD I remember he had some pretty wild takes too. His vibes seem similar to those games to me?

So here's my thing. I literally hydra'd a game as scum with Furtive right before this one. Furtive knows how to play scum, they did it with me so this concept that he looks this way as town, he knows he looks that way.

it's not only not outside his range, but he's playing up into it.

I mean look at the Meowth wagon stuff. It's ridiculous and comical but it's making people townread him so he's doing it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

will definitely re-evaluate and talk furtive with you later LLD I think if Alisae is town furtive scum equity is super high

Alisae have you ever considered that I'm just town lol

that's my fear.

Furtive came after you and SK today and is now subtely backsliding onto Ali.

His sudden "uno reverse card" nonsense to try and force me to commit to killing Ali should be a redflag for everyone.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can u link that game

viewtopic.php?t=90204

relying on you here to find our scumthread, and a lot of our playing was done in our Hydra QT we were provided when Furtive hydraized me out from outside the game into the game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Alisae - I still really really want to finally do the promised reread before committing to anything but

IT's probably just Bingle/Sheep/Furtive.

this solve actually feels pretty good to me imo

Bingle is the tough one because a lot of his opinions feel really grounded and town-motivated but if we are truly actually T-T the kinda fluffy non-committing from him feels scummy to me

like he says he wants to partner hunt outside of us today but it feels like all he's doing is arguing with me and virtually every other player doesn't receive any scrutiny from him at all

I like it too. there's an outside chance of STD, but I've got townreads on you UNOwen and SK, and a ??? read on Ali who I struggle to read on good days and is buddying me but it also making good points and why would scum Ali be defending Furtive from me right now? It makes zero sense.

So for me, I like my solve too and now it's having the energy to sell others on it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I liked some of his posts too I'm not sold on it

ultimately the one liner would be I don't see what he's really doing to help town win

but yeah I'm not effort posting right now so that will come later

my bingle read is very PoE but also, Bingle's bad fucking mechanics arguments day 1, Bingle's stances on the Xof and Ircher votes. Why isn't Bingle a bigger presence this game...

Like I just sort of like him for scum content with how the game is going.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yo, talk to me about Furtive. Where is your furtive read and if it's town right now, why?

I'm running on pure anger and frustration at this point and people need someone to have any level of WIM so here I fucking am.

It's lean town, for non-specific reasons that have built up over time. Generally I feel that he's been approaching the game uninformed, trying to reevaluate. Not like he has a specific gameplan. The "accidental lies" stuff with the minutes for example, I guess it's the "too blatant to be scum" argument but I think it also seemed more like town who genuinely convinced himself that his version of events was what happened and didn't bother to check.

I liked the SleepyKrew push too, because in retrospect I think it was the correct play at the time. Although that assumes scum didn't have a way to play around it, which maybe they did, in which case it would be terrible. So actually that's not a good reason to view him as town.

Meh. I guess I don't actually have a strong case that he's town but I also don't see the scum argument. He was really fishy in the last game I played with him and got wrongly killed for it and in HotD I remember he had some pretty wild takes too. His vibes seem similar to those games to me?

So here's my thing. I literally hydra'd a game as scum with Furtive right before this one. Furtive knows how to play scum, they did it with me so this concept that he looks this way as town, he knows he looks that way.

it's not only not outside his range, but he's playing up into it.

I mean look at the Meowth wagon stuff. It's ridiculous and comical but it's making people townread him so he's doing it.

If this is suggesting (offensively) that I'm scum playing in a confused/confusing way to look town, or playing deliberately badly or whatever, I never did this in the game I hydraed with LLD in.

It's suggesting (non-offensively) that you have the capability of pretending to be something you're not for a mafia game which we did do in ELO when we pretended to have hydra dissonance and play good cop bad cop with the thread.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Alisae - I still really really want to finally do the promised reread before committing to anything but

IT's probably just Bingle/Sheep/Furtive.

this solve actually feels pretty good to me imo

Bingle is the tough one because a lot of his opinions feel really grounded and town-motivated but if we are truly actually T-T the kinda fluffy non-committing from him feels scummy to me

like he says he wants to partner hunt outside of us today but it feels like all he's doing is arguing with me and virtually every other player doesn't receive any scrutiny from him at all

Pretty sure you said you townread me...

See here it is again.

IF YOU SCUMREAD FURTIVE, YOU MUST BE SCUM.

Honestly the OMGUS is killing me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bingle what's your furtive read

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm drunkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[Lady Lambdadelta]

drunk is good i did pubquiz for hebi birthday with Haschel

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm a good girl, or at leaast that's what i'm told

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm a good girl, or at leaast that's what i'm told

you are!

oh my god yay!

:3

[We're all good girls, tonight.]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I realized I never shared treasury info - we had a decent windfall from taxes last night, we brought in $125. So even with paying back a $60 loan we could have $65 to play with and maybe take out another small loan. my thinking is we just fund the cop tonight and no one else, if sheep is town he's useful to flip and get out of the POE without wasting a lim if scum kills him, and if he lives he can investigate Bingle or whoever we're least sure of in the limpool

And $125 is still pretty low. We should be expecting $16.75 per player, which gives us an expectation of ~$150 with 9 alive. Paying back the $60 loan should be $90, should it not?

My understanding is it's per townie, not per player. Scum aren't paying taxes

I think you're right on the second point though, the role pm just said we are $60 in debt, I'll confirm whether that means we need to pay $90

Maybe don't commit to just this.

How would WIFOMING between 3 options sound?

Borrow and fund Sheep
Borrow and fun Me
Don't borrow and pay debts for a better full fund tomorrow night.

The third one is a LITTLE risky but honestly might be our win path this game.

If you wanna just commit to it it's a fine play, making scum have to shoot sheep or not.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So we are down to kill Furtive today?

I am only holding back on vote for the sake of funding.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Furtive

GL can you decide your funding and we can get on with it?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alisae are you blanking me for a second time?!

Silence = confession
VOTE: Alisae

Come do furtive. The game makes more sense with furtive wcum and your reasons for townreading them are circumstantial and based on meta that furtive is capable of replicating.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD looking like desperate Alisae partner with this lack of thinking

Yup yup, got it. I'm scum anytime I actively push you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I meant Bingle as well^

Let's do the sensible thing today, and follow up on last night's no doc disaster.

Think for yourselves - it doesn't matter how 'good' LLD is because I know I'm town, simple as that.

VOTE: Alisae

Like this is the vote cast after shading people all day.

Because Furtive has 0 confidence or progression on his reads. He's been just in pure survival mode and saying what keeps him alive and never has it been more apparent than today in which you have called just about every player in the game scum for different bad reasons and finally ended on the only wagon you think keeps you alive.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You're definitely going to have that much time, I'm not sure why you're worried about speed eliminations. No one's looking to flip you until GL makes his choices.

That said, your two page response here is scum flailing for a way out, insulting every player you can on the way down hoping someone will buy into your AtE.

It's impressive, in a way. How flexible you're willing to be on reads to go with whatever will suit you and act however you think you need to act to win.

But it's a scum thing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think identifying how people win the game and seeing if they're playing to that is a very important aspect of late game that not a lot of people consider to think about.
Who knows I just played a mid-late game really badly where I fos'd LLD because I found something that I thought "made sense" but that game also had a third party and third parties really fuck with how it is I solve the game. I'm not used to playing with those things at all.

i stg if you do that again this game i'm going to be so fucking mad lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bingle/Sheep/Furtive with outside of STD is my current view

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'm high btw

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm getting cold feet on limming furtive from his posts recently today

I also do not like that kdowns post about "Alisae piggybacking on reads", that felt very shady and scummy

did we actually have consensus on funding plan? I know LLD suggested I WIFOM about it and Bingle suggested take full loan and mostly fund all the roles. I don't wanna be confused and do something that people might later think was scum-motivated or against the plan, so I wanna be explicit about what we agree on, even if it's explicitly choosing to WIFOM about a few options

I'm also not sure I understand Bingle math in 4699. We have $125, I could take out a $200 loan for $325. funding 80/80/70 puts us at 230, what do I do with the extra $5 after we pay $90 to debt? and how does funding Mayor $80 mean $100 success rate?

Furtive is literally spewing and has escaped death this specific way like 3 times now.

I really think its Furtive/Bingle/Sheep.

As for plans...

I think you should fund fully.

My tracker is a good secondary at 80 bucks. Dont split funding.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sheep coming out of the woodwork to try and defend Furtive only grants me more confidence tbh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like even with the retraction, it reads like scum throwing things against the wall to see what sticks and then realizing they will be lambasted for such an obviously false statement and issuing the retraction.

Additionally the earlier statement about Furtive increased WIM isn't townie. Furtive is on track to die. Almost every scum refuses to roll over and die.

It would almost be more town from a perspective tell if Furtive were giving up but instead furtive keeps insulting players and pretending to give up and then coming back and doing more things to try and stay alive.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Not that survivalism is scummy inherently, but trying to look defeated only to keep fighting and then have someone pop up to defend you is scummy, at least in my PoV

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD refusal to comment on SKrew is +scum, at least Bingle gave a bad reason to townlean him

I'm actively choosing not to engage with you because I think you're scum and nothing good can come from it, except frustration for me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like if someone else wanted to know things about my reads, someone I could feasibly convince to vote my way, I would be more inclined to answer, but I'm not going to waste what small WIM I have engaging with the player who tanked my WIM to begin with and on whom I have my strongest scumread!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sheep coming out of the woodwork to try and defend Furtive only grants me more confidence tbh.

Ngl, this thought crossed my mind. The whole defense of furtive because his read reset explained all his previous behavior is wolfy AF.

Is there any chance we can fund JoaT/JoaT/Track and just lim sheep here? Tracker isn’t far off of cop with only two scum left.

do you think scum sheep was defending town furtive?

Don't. Please.

I suspect they're both scum slots, but if Furtive lives another day I'll scream lol.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If people end up listening to LLD on this one then why even play mafia? I want to argue my points and she just wants to ignore me and assert things without explaining.

I'm making arguments to them that don't involve arguing with you.

I'm never going to convince you that you are scum. That's just never going to happen.

But I can convince townies.

So why would I waste my energy trying to debate with you. I tried that, I tried finding you as town earlier today and yesterday but you don't look town to me.

So I'm making arguments for the sake of you being scum.

This false misrepresentation that somehow people aren't playing the fucking game is just another scum tactic you're using, and a kind of offensive and insulting one at that.

People DO NOT NEED TO INDULGE YOU to play this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm making arguments to them that don't involve arguing with you.

-In a response to me.

If you can respond to these arguments about arguing, why not actually state/explain your reads on UNOwen and SKrew like I asked?

Because I'm tired of you insulting me and other players intelligence and competence and pretending you're this innocent fucking bystander while doing it.

You literally made my life HELL for some "perceived rudeness" earlier in this game and here you are now insulting how people play this game.

I'm engaging with you to tell you it's not fucking okay and speaking to others to show them what you're doign as scum.

I do not want to engage with you. But these insults are fucking wearing at me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GL I know I'm like the last one to complain because of how long i took before but please for the love of god can we fund and kill furtive I am so tired of having to hear about how scummy I am mixed with how bad of a player I am then mixed with how I'm anti-town for not engaging then being baited by insults into engaging and getting fucking "gotcha'd" by "look you engaged lul".

I'm exhausted. I want this over.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I've fairly exhaustively explained why Furtive is scum. Furtive choosing to cherrypick a new point I bring up and announce it as the whole of my argument pretending there is nothing else is just yet another survival tactic that is more likely to come from scum because furtive knows I've spoken more points on him being scum today than that, he's specifically responded to just about all of them.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But this isn't going to stop while I post, it seems. Furtive will continue to discredit me and insult all of you in the hopes that someone reads his bad behaviour as frustrated town and spares him.

I implore you not to fall for it.

I'm gonna take a V/LA from this game for a few days for my health, or at least try to, but in my absence I implore you to ignore these transparent attempts at manipulation.

The answer to "does Furtive really do that as scum" has already been shown and the fact he stopped to go "it's just a game" before launching back into the discrediting shows you this is all just fake for him. It's real frustration and annoyance for me. But for him this is just "what he has to do to survive".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I know we’ve had a crummy run - but today is the day it turns around! I’m sure of it...

Declare: Treasurer

Someone I trust needs to look at the budget.

And why should that person be you over say, me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You sure rushed to grab that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And why should that person be you over say, me.

You aren’t trustworthy.

Why am I not trustworthy?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, and when you note this, you should note at this point I should be obvious town to you and any townie here because of what happened last night.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, I may or may not have a tracker result that I'm holding for the moment because we're really far behind and I need to make the most of the last day I'm going to be alive lmfao.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Or is the answer "I'm not you" lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yes, that is the answer. We’re getting rolled here.

Why does last night make you obvtown?

The following sequence of events, in my opinion, makes me obvious town.

GL becomes treasurer
I tell GL to WIFOM using lots of money or no money, and never to partially fund ANYONE.
GL's treasury gets attacked by a scum power.
I know this happened because I was fully funded for 80, reduced down to 49.
When GL announced this in thread, I went "how much? Do you know?" as a way to "slip" accidentally that I wasn't funded.
Sheep gets shot.

In my mind, this means on thing. Scum were afraid of multiple people being funded last night and used a power to sabotage across the board because they couldn't kill all the townies who had powers, and that I might have been in the crosshairs except for me faking not being funded and being on a slightly weaker role than cop.

Additionally it was my advice to GL to wifom how much money got used that put us in an okay position here. GL apparently only funded me.

More or less how GL and I played yesterday reads very much as town to me for both of us and put us in a position to possibly win. I think GL is obv town at this point to me, even above where I am.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like no other roles REALLY matter. I think you only use that power scum used if Cop AND tracker are both town and you can't kill both.

that's my take.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and the fact that GL only funded ONE of the two of us, and that Sheep died ANYWAY tells me GL looks pretty town.

Is that fakeable? Sure. But he has to risk I get a guilty with my tracker which is pretty damaging to do that on.

Maybe I'm wrong. It's ELO so I shouldn't play absolutes. But had this happened earlier in the game GL would be 100% lock town for the game for me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah but I wanted to check in for the precise same reason lmfao

There might not BE a tomorrow, so I can't just "check treasurer tomorrow" so I wanted to confirm all my theories, see the results with my own eyes and be like "aight GL town, LLD town, let's move from that base".

I also still may or may not have a tracker result oooh spoooky

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ok so:

generally I agree with LLD that the sequence of events last night makes her likely town but I also think UNOwen's paranoia also reads genuine. he can't really lie about the treasury or not fund anybody (assuming we hit scum today) without outing himself so I don't think it matters too much if he's treasurer, unless I am not thinking of something.

sheep dying is kinda noteworthy to me because I feel like he was the most easy miselim slot remaining, was it really necessary for scum to sabotage the treasury AND kill him last night? I don't know if I have a working explanation as to why scum made that shot, like they were clearly afraid of a cop result but why? what possible cop check would be most damaging to them?

I feel like once my claims about the budget are confirmed and if we flip scum today then LLD/I become likely NK targets, so I want to run for either Mayor or Tracker as Bingle suggested. I'll probably declare Mayor tonight unless anyone has a convincing reason not to

would you like my pet theory?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You're going to hate it, but I feel like we're in ELO you're the one I trust most GL, let's just show every card I have and say fuck it.

You don't know how hard that is for me, so... yeah.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yes, I'd like to hear your theory

I am currently thinking maybe there's a world where scum!UNOwen has a plan to lie about the treasury and push me for a game winning lim today, but I think if he tries that it's risky because you at least know that I'm not lying about the sabotage and if the two of us can convince whoever else is town to lim scum elsewhere then it just outs him tomorrow, when he'd probably be the deepest wolf remaining in that world

Here's my crackpot theory.

Scum used the Sabo to frame Ali and because there were townies in key roles last night and then shot Sheep because I "slipped" in the committee thread to not be funded and because they were afraid of the single most obvious Sheep target.

Cop Alisae.

If Ali's scum, why fear that? they 1v1 sheep and maybe e wins. I know I could have possibly been convincable.

If Ali's town however, with Sheep town too, getting a GREEN check on ALI from Sheep almost ALWAYS clears them BOTH. I can't see scumsheep giving me "alisae, Green" in anyworld, can you?

So what if Ali's town, you're town, I'm town.

We're looking for 1 more townie in that group.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't know if this is right, but I'm staring at today being an alisae elimination with... trepedation because it feels too easy and like I'm being led down a primrose path and why WAS sheep shot if not to keep status quo and so if status quo is bad Alisae is probably town.

Which leads me, again, back to my crackpot theory.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Tell me if I'm overthinking this. Like please I need someone to check my logic because my brain is running circles.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If Ali's town however, with Sheep town too, getting a GREEN check on ALI from Sheep almost ALWAYS clears them BOTH. I can't see scumsheep giving me "alisae, Green" in anyworld, can you?

Why would scum sheep scum Alisae world not be possible?

because Sheep is dead... and green flipped.

This is a post humous exploration of choices made last night. Scum would know Sheep is town from their PoV so... why would I explore that world here?

What are you even asking me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't hate that theory, I was kinda thinking through the same... my main hesitation is it feels a little scumsided to have both RB -and- sabotage abilities that are unknown to town, but I definitely agree that's the most compelling explanation as to why there was so much effort to deny town a cop result last night. and I guess the sabotage isn't that strong because the affected players are informed that it happened so it's not really an effective way to frame anybody

and I also still think Datisi's play feels pretty town now knowing a lot of other players alignments, it's maybe stupid and a small thing but if scum!Datisi really had both the insight and the moxie to call me "trying to be smart but failing" while knowing I'm town I really would be super impressed

kdowns feels like best odds of scum to me at this point by POE and how little that slot has offered collectively across its inhabitants, I am thinking he might actually be the safest lim today. if we're assuming town!Alisae then I think the remaining town is either UNOwen or Bingle but frankly I could see it being either of them

I'm honestly... I still think SleepyKrew might be town.

But this is approximately where I am at too. If Alisae is town, and you and I are town and I'm operating on that worldview

Kdowns is probably scum 100% of the time.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

because Sheep is dead... and green flipped.

This is a post humous exploration of choices made last night. Scum would know Sheep is town from their PoV so... why would I explore that world here?

What are you even asking me?

How would it clear them both if sheep turned up today claiming that Alisae was town? He wasn't trusted and was a contender for Ali partner.

Nothing auto clears them but if Sheep did that as opposed to say just claiming a scum result on Bingle or something, it would be weird.

I also just think that Sheep/Ali/??? as a scumteam doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think overall, the question of "why was sheep!town killed?" is answered with "Alisae is town" pretty solidly.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Interestingly enough I was thinking that kdowns is probably scum in all circumstances too.

Does KDownsSTD/SK/Bingle make sense for a scumteam?

.... yeah it actually does.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

there's 1 little problem with that scumteam

Right, and I could be wrong about one of the pieces on this. I'm frankly hoping to be dead by the time I anyone has to make a choice like that?

I would really love to dunk Kdowns scum go to the dead thread and not have to think about this game anymore tbh. Because looking around I see just a list of players I have townread this game and it makes me nervous.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But I'm probably not going to get gifted that. They likely kill GL first and then me unless someone becomes confirmed town somehow before that please god don't put me in 3p ELO this game that would be my fucking nightmare

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but for real, here's my thing.

My theory is GL is most town and Ali feels too easy so I'm looking for someone else.

I still think Bingle is scum. It's the one legacy read I don't want to part with. I've been thinking Bingle is scummy for a long time and people go "no he's town" but I'm hesitant.

I don't think any team at this point makes sense without STD floating under the radar and getting the Xof elim.

So I'm split between you and UNOwen for the final person on this scumteam. I don't want to have to be the one to make that choice because UNOwen tripped my "oh it's UNOwen town" alarm and you've been literally town for me all game as well.

So by design one of you has to be a misread, as far as I can tell.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So I'm at
LLD-GL

Ali

SleepyKrew-UNOwen

Bingle

KDowns

that's my current solve pool. I'm only 100% certain about LLD and GL town, I'm leaning that Ali is probably town here, I think it's hard for me to be wrong about BOTH you and UNOwen, Bingle is probably scum but I can be wrong there, all it takes is one bad read above and Bingle's town

but KDowns I don't think is ever town here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

is the Ali townread based on eir play as well or just that it makes sense with the sheep kill + would be "too easy" as you said for Ali to be scum

it's kind of both.

I just got done with a game where Ali was town and couldn't find me as town and quick eliminated me for no good reason and the vibes I get here are the same vibes I got in that game too.

But ali has been notoriously hard to read due to how chaotic e is, so using the situational logic and mech stuff and analyzing AROUND Ali is what makes me more confident than just how my eye test tells me.

And mechanically and play wise... I don't think Ali sets eirself up in a position as a doctor to get boned like this, Ali's the type to want to carry a game from my recolection. Combine this with the powers finally coming out fo the shell and being used so we know they do exist, plus a sheep kill plus Furtive being town it's...

It just all adds up.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like you're asking me the right questions so i'm really grateful because my mind is in a mess and i'm worried about getting it wrong

i'm basically in a positon where i'm very easy to find as town here which means i have a lot of responsibility to like... the game to get it right?

I had an anxiety attack about getting this wrong today. After the talk with UNOwen I was like "fuckkk what if UNOwen is scum and I've been covering for him the whole game despite people being suspicious" and I just... I had to take a walk to calm down.

It means a lot to me, more than it probably should, to be right and have people see me as competent and skilled. and I haven't felt that way this game. Maybe it's the Furtive insult stuff getting in my head too but the last thing I wanna do is end this game with a town loss and have furtive fucking make fun of me again.

I just don't want it. It's bothering me. It makes me itch.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

this is what happens when i stop holding my cards to my chest

i ramble and all my emotions spill out and people see into the chaos factory of paranoia that is my brain and

gahhhh i feel vulnerable and exposed and i hate it but i need people to bounce off me to solve this

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Declare Mayor

What should I run for? Trash?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah I was thinking tracker again makes sense

aight bet.

Declare: Trash Collector

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh so you think it's "when town takes loans from the bank, scum own the bank and get funded for their powers from it"?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I realize my last post is kind of implicit, the point is the

best

explanation for the sheep kill in my mind is if Alisae is town, scum want to bank the game on miseliminating em today, and they wanted to prevent any chance of sheep getting a town!Alisae result

This is my full agreement, and I think Kdowns is scum and just lurking hoping not to condemn whatever partners he has by connections, since we have to be right 3 times in a row to win. =/

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also I'm probably getting ahead of myself here and I'll wait to see what LLD says but if she tracked Alisae and got the result that Alisae went nowhere, I'd consider that a soft inno in this gamestate. If I'm a scum team with Alisae I send Alisae to do any night kills at this point since e is the most suspected member and already soft mech-guiltied already

>.>

<.<

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm explicitly not saying if I did or did not get a track result due to funding sabotage or who I did it on for the sake of trying to read people better but

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It’s not very helpful because these:

Given that and the lack of trust I'm going to have for any claimed results, I think we should just not use power roles tonight unless they can be funded without going into debt. If a small loan managed to let them sabotage or roleblock or whatever, imagine what a big loan might cost us.

Take out a loan and fund everything

are two suggestions that can’t both be followed, and you’ve not given me a reason why I shouldn’t listen to Bingle.

Personally I’m inclined not to listen to Bingle because I lack imagination and can’t see what a big loan could cost us. Town already receives consequences for taking out a loan by the threat of going into debt, so the idea that this would be compounded by giving scum goodies too doesn’t seem likely.

But then I’m just a natural Council Member pretending to be a Treasurer, I have no authority on the subject. Hence consulting Sleepy for guidance.

Sleepy and not... me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

V/LA for the weekend

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sorry, been out of it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

me, sorry. i'm not having a great time and my surgery is coming up and i just needed the time away from this game to clear my head

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like i got to vote and chill for a bit and not have to think about whether i'm right or wrong or if people will judge me for fucking up or if i'm just on the right track and

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it's been a blessing let me assure you of that

[Lady Lambdadelta]

UNOwen, confirm the treasury situation, and make your choices, and then we kill KDowns who has gone straight up missing and zero contact which feels like an admission of guilt tbh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm about to go to bed, will think about mech in the morning but the good news is we're only $45 in debt

For the briefest of moments I thought GuiltyLion was indeed a stupid liar face but then I remembered the evil concept of interest.

My current plan is to behave like a responsible treasurer and bankrupt the town. Will confirm choices later tonight or tomorrow. Probably tomorrow.

Okay, so my solve still looks pretty locked in.

Let us know when you submit your choices and then we'll progress this game and hopefully scum will shoot me tonight or I'll track scum to a kill tonight so they're forced to shoot me the night after, lol.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

part of why i feel good about Kdowns scum is I think this day was supposed to go differently and involve an Ali death but when GL and I stepped up and prevented that, scum were kind of forced to just bus Kdowns, and that's why KDowns is doing nothing. He doesn't want to incriminate his team in any way and his team just want to progress to next day. We have to get 3 in a row anyway, it's not worth them laying their lives down to try and save KDowns and go down with him.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

publicly declaring that you’re not funding LLD would be pretty funny

my brother in christ are you trying to make it so i don't get killed tonight lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

moreover if you think there are townies pushing you, why aren't you changing their mind?

like if you're town, the one thing that will never convince me is acting defeated. scum can too easily do that and if I swapped when someone felt defeated I'd just... lose a lot of games.

like, Kdowns you haven't presented a compelling argument on anyone being scum, the only read you appear to strongly have is me as town which makes me paranoid, so like

if you're not scum, kdowns, who is?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like that's my current biggest sticking point on you, KDowns. The rest of it is all the way your slot STD has played and it's hard for you to defend that but since you've come into the game you townread hard on me and then ghosted, and that fits with the playstyle of someone who thought Ali was dying today.

And then when that got flipped and everyone kind of looked at your slot like "this is scum, right?" you ghosted and when you finally come back it's "i'm dying anyway so who cares" and demotivated talks about how you're town so we're losing.

Which like... again feels like a scum tactic to possibly live and play on paranoia.

But given all townies must vote together today, if you are town and looking to possibly win, I need you to convince me. I need you to do more than just lurk and decide it's over. I literally can't see that as anything other than scum anti-spew.

I really desperately do not want to be wrong. I'm not stubborn or dead set or anything of what you've said. In fact I'm about as fluid and paranoid as they come here. My stomach is in fucking knots.

So if you think someone is scum and you've got ideas and you need to sell them to your top town read because townies need to vote together in ELO

Please at least try. If you're town and I'm wrong and you tried, I'll take all the blame. I already take all the blame anyway because I feel so miserable when I get shit wrong in this stupid game.

But right now you're squarely in the "scum trying to make me feel bad about killing you by pointing out how easy it is and giving me zero reads for associative tells to avoid condeming your partners, thus preying on my paranoia while being okay if you die".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

should town throw to give Shea 1 less game to run should we drag every phase to deadline to make him suffer

i stg if you're scum hiding under my wing by being likable I'm going to murder you lmfao

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like EVERY time you post my brain goes "yep that's town slappykrew"

but i'm running out of spots for townies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you live to make me squirm don't you

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because we have people here who are stubborn and dead set in their ways and immediately pushing on me because I am an easy target.

I am going to flip town, and the town loses. Simple as that.

It's endgame, why aren't you questioning it?

From your perspective there are as many scum around as town. So why do you trust that you're being pushed honestly and not just scum looking for an easy target?

UNOwen, right now you're acting....

how do I put this

you're acting as if you have full control of the day, is the vibes I am getting, and it's spooking me a little.

Can you tell me what you're trying to accomplish here? Even if you think it's obvious, I want to just... hear from your mouth what you're aiming for.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The following sequence of events, in my opinion, makes me obvious town.

GL becomes treasurer
I tell GL to WIFOM using lots of money or no money, and never to partially fund ANYONE.
GL's treasury gets attacked by a scum power.
I know this happened because I was fully funded for 80, reduced down to 49.
When GL announced this in thread, I went "how much? Do you know?" as a way to "slip" accidentally that I wasn't funded.
Sheep gets shot.

In my mind, this means on thing. Scum were afraid of multiple people being funded last night and used a power to sabotage across the board because they couldn't kill all the townies who had powers, and that I might have been in the crosshairs except for me faking not being funded and being on a slightly weaker role than cop.

Additionally it was my advice to GL to wifom how much money got used that put us in an okay position here. GL apparently only funded me.

More or less how GL and I played yesterday reads very much as town to me for both of us and put us in a position to possibly win. I think GL is obv town at this point to me, even above where I am.

LLD do you think this post provides enough context that there would be no further questions on what happened with the treasury last night from someone who wasn't at the committee?

Not wholy sure what you're asking me here, can you restate?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right there on that particular post?

I don't want to lose the game because I assumed that kdowns being defeatist is scum when I've tried that assumption twice this game and failed.

I meant in general, mostly the vibes I was getting was your SK interactions.

like, I'm with you on the KDowns stuff, as my most recent posts have indicated. Like... right now my belief and I think yours are the same. KDowns is just caught scum and anti-spewing.

But if I'm wrong, I want a chance to see that and course correct?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh right, my interactions with SK are that I think he's scum and I'm trying to work out if Bingle/kdowns/SleepyKrew is just the latest reasonable sounding team but this time it's right or if there's a trick because they don't seem to have made much of an attempt to direct this day in any specific direction, when in theory they only need one townie to get it wrong for a win.

And from the perspective of Sleepy and Alisae I presume there would be questions about the funding situation i.e. why did GuiltyLion not fund the cop, what is the exact details of the sabotage. But maybe it's clear enough from what's been posted in thread idk.

Ah, I see.

so you're asking me "do you think that the version of events from the council PT was specific enough that people who are proportedly not able to see that PT because they're town would be content not asking clarifying questions to get to the bottom of it?"

If that's the question, I think... possibly yes. I am... not concise when I speak, if you haven't gotten that from me yet. I talk around points because English is a dual first language for me and while I'm comfortable with it I sometimes worry I'm not being wholy... clear?

So I'll say a lot of things until people get what I'm pointing at. I think there is enough info there and enough people confirmed the outcome I described was not false for people to go "okay that's just the events that occured" yeah.

As for "they only need one townie wrong for a win" consider what happens if the world is indeed SK/Bingle/Kdowns, right?

They need 1 townie to flip. I don't think anyone on that scumteam has any illusions about being able to push onto GL or I, they're being DENIED Ali by how GL and I are playing, so the only person they could push on is you.

So if that scumteam comes out and pushes on you after being like, well Ali is scum, it forces YOU to self interest vote.

In the world you're imagining, you are both the vote they are most likely to swing, and the only person they can reasonably target with a counter wagon.

And this is true, in my mind, if you're scum and SK is town, or if you and SK are scum and Bingle is town.

and it's why there's been no counter wagon no other profered choice.

Which is why I think KDowns isn't town because tonw KDowns won;t care about Optics, they'll say "okay so it's probably me today, I'm gonna pick someone I think is really scummy and go 1v1 with them"

but that's not happening.

What's happening is 4 town and 2 scum handshaking on a Kdowns death to kick the can down the road and try to win by removing GL and I from the picture which will possibly make Ali more suspicious and eliminatable and put you in a weird spot assumign you're the townie I'm missing from my solve.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

by the way i know i'm a hypocrite asking this but, you should get your funding done today if possible

[Lady Lambdadelta]

so you're asking me "do you think that the version of events from the council PT was specific enough that people who are proportedly not able to see that PT because they're town would be content not asking clarifying questions to get to the bottom of it?"

If that's the question, I think... possibly yes. I am... not concise when I speak, if you haven't gotten that from me yet. I talk around points because English is a dual first language for me and while I'm comfortable with it I sometimes worry I'm not being wholy... clear?

Yep, and I was thinking specifically about my interaction with Sleepy which was trying to get him to make clear how much he understood and he didn't have anything to say on the sabotage at all.

Let me look back at his posting today with that in mind a bit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ANNOUNCEMENT: The budget has been submitted, a masterpiece of good financial governance which will surely put this town on the road to recovery. Rejoice in the knowledge that your taxes have been used wisely!

okay, awesome

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD I think you’re reading into kdowns disengagement as scum indicative of the people you’re suspicious of erroneously. Like, the anti spew bit makes sense, but it being because there’s no alternative to push for kinda doesn’t. If it’s kdowns Ali uno, for example, kdownsscum doesn’t want to risk the 1v1 with me or skrew despite the other potentially being swayed, because if he loses the 1v1 suddenly there’s a potential miselim that’s much harder to pull off.

so to be clear your argument is... "it's Kdowns, but it's not me"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GL, I want to give you space to do more posting and work with you to try and come to a bit of a thought built consensus by the end of today since one of us is dying tonight almost assuredly, but I'm also feeling the drain of this day going on too long and worry about players WIM come tomorrow if we drag this out too long and people give even less of a shit.

Do you have time tonight or tomorrow to talk and work shit out with me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

gahhh sorry for my absence but I am here now and ready to play a lil bit on lunch break, and then definitely gonna give this game some attention tonight

quoting you to ping you for the sake of talking to you about everything before we move on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Checking in to say I won't be voting until I talk to GL, and also for ELO proceedure as a townie etc.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GL, I want to give you space to do more posting and work with you to try and come to a bit of a thought built consensus by the end of today since one of us is dying tonight almost assuredly, but I'm also feeling the drain of this day going on too long and worry about players WIM come tomorrow if we drag this out too long and people give even less of a shit.

Do you have time tonight or tomorrow to talk and work shit out with me?

hey yeah, sorry this week has just been hectic for me personally, tbh tomorrow would be the day I am most free, I'm going to a hockey game with a buddy tonight, but I respect not wanting people's WIM to crash it already feels pretty low right now

when are you going to be around? I'm gonna be busy like 5:30-10:00 PST today but I'll try to be active/present before then and late tonight if I can pull it off this time. last night got away from me

I'm here now if you're here now for a bit?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also fuck yeah b'y! Whose playing?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah, I am around! I still want to skim through D2/D3 thinking Ali town and check to see if things make sense, my memory of early/mid game is a bit too fuzzy for me feeling comfortable with a total solve, but yeah happy to chat in real time

I'm going to the Kraken game tonight, Vegas Golden Knights are in town and my buddy is a fan so we're gonna go and root against each other should be a blast

I FORGOT WE BOTH LIVED IN SEATTLE B'Y

FUCK ME

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmfao

let's go to a kraken game some time ye?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Anyway, I have been looking over earlier day interactions and I feel pretty comfortable with Ali town because of the Xof wagon.

I just don't see Ali positioning eirself around that wagon the way e did if e is scum.

Also, I know people have been like "actually Datisi looks town on a review" and I'm kind of... unable to tell that? Datisi looks scummy to me sort of no matter what in early days, especially coming off of HotD. But I DO think that Datisi going for Cop day 1 after HotD with me IN THE GAME AGAIN is... it's too bold, tbh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Right now I'm trying to decide who among Bingle/SK/UNowen is scum

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmfao

let's go to a kraken game some time ye?

I'd be down I've only been to a few but I live basically right down the street from Climate Pledge so I really should go more often!

Anyway, I have been looking over earlier day interactions and I feel pretty comfortable with Ali town because of the Xof wagon.

I just don't see Ali positioning eirself around that wagon the way e did if e is scum.

Also, I know people have been like "actually Datisi looks town on a review" and I'm kind of... unable to tell that? Datisi looks scummy to me sort of no matter what in early days, especially coming off of HotD. But I DO think that Datisi going for Cop day 1 after HotD with me IN THE GAME AGAIN is... it's too bold, tbh.

for me I felt Datisi's treatment of me feels more genuinely suspicious and like he wanted to figure me out moreso than something aimed to get me to townread him. I think scum!Tisi is usually a bit more pocket-y towards me than he was here - that's not infallible I have mistakenly townread Datisi before but especially rereading with a lot of the fluff removed I think he truly did not know my alignment.

Is the Ali read based on your understanding of Ali as a player or a more general rule of how scum like to play?

Right now I'm trying to decide who among Bingle/SK/UNowen is scum

what do you think of Bingle coming in here and throwing a lot of shade around some people like Ali, uno, me? I feel like the easy explanation is that's scum trying to keep their options open but I also kinda think he would be more consistent about it if he has an agenda? I already indicated some level of uncertainty between him and UNowen and he chose to say he's not sure that I'm town, feels risky if he's scum

hell yeah! remind me to add you to the "people I know in Seattle and play boardgames with at times" server, if you want. Ceph and Fen are in there too, anyway.
---
Ali read is based on both. Ali's like, a chaos gremlin, so it's hard to say precisely what e will do in any one specific situation with complete certainty, but e's also not like... bad at this game?

and I think that from what I know of Ali, the setup around the Xof wagon does them no favours and makes them look bad, and infact did as they ended up squarely in the "sussy baka cop" pool for the rest of the game.

I think Ali takes more care in eir approach there if scum, and I think in general scum wants to position themselves better, and Ali's a very competent scumplayer perfectly capable of making people townread eim.
---
As for Bingle, I get the sense that this would come from either alignment. Like... this can be town bingle going "your assessment is off because I'm town, but that's not enough to actually do anything" and giving me reasons why my logic is wrong, but feeling confident in my Kdowns logic all the same. If Bingle is town that has to be a super awkward position for him because he needs to like... onboard with the thing he agrees with without blowing himself up and dooming the town as a result.

But scum Bingle wants to get through this day with KDowns squashed, it's a transparent bus, and will be looking to probably use me as the one to convince to go somewhere else. In that world, it almost makes me think it's Bingle+SK because Bingle knows how much I townread SK.

It is a little weird, though, because I've said all game I townread SK and townread UNOwen and Bingle I've had a scumread on. So why would scum bingle be selling to me? You'd think he'd be selling to You and killing me, since the inertia of getting me to kill someone who isn't him tomorrow is harder.

Like no lie if I'm alive tomorrow I'm probably killing Bingle and letting Ali/SK/UNOwen endgame with whatever possible power roles we've managed to get tonight info wise and my last words. It's not... 100%, because I'm not 100% on Bingle scum, as said above but I have that inertia severely.

So it almost gives me pause like... would scum bingle fail to recognize I'm not the one to convicne here?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmfao

let's go to a kraken game some time ye?

I'd be down I've only been to a few but I live basically right down the street from Climate Pledge so I really should go more often!

Anyway, I have been looking over earlier day interactions and I feel pretty comfortable with Ali town because of the Xof wagon.

I just don't see Ali positioning eirself around that wagon the way e did if e is scum.

Also, I know people have been like "actually Datisi looks town on a review" and I'm kind of... unable to tell that? Datisi looks scummy to me sort of no matter what in early days, especially coming off of HotD. But I DO think that Datisi going for Cop day 1 after HotD with me IN THE GAME AGAIN is... it's too bold, tbh.

for me I felt Datisi's treatment of me feels more genuinely suspicious and like he wanted to figure me out moreso than something aimed to get me to townread him. I think scum!Tisi is usually a bit more pocket-y towards me than he was here - that's not infallible I have mistakenly townread Datisi before but especially rereading with a lot of the fluff removed I think he truly did not know my alignment.

Is the Ali read based on your understanding of Ali as a player or a more general rule of how scum like to play?

Right now I'm trying to decide who among Bingle/SK/UNowen is scum

what do you think of Bingle coming in here and throwing a lot of shade around some people like Ali, uno, me? I feel like the easy explanation is that's scum trying to keep their options open but I also kinda think he would be more consistent about it if he has an agenda? I already indicated some level of uncertainty between him and UNowen and he chose to say he's not sure that I'm town, feels risky if he's scum

still there?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think if scum!Bingle he must be assuming he needs to win a fight against me tomorrow

Actually, yeah this almost reads like it could be UNOwen+Bingle.

It'd explain how town got into this position and explain why UNOwen is going in so hard on SK.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Now I'm more confused than ever though, cause it could jsut be town Bingle and UNOwen and SK are taking today to do some distancing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

UNOwen+SK interactions did feel stilted and UNOwen was trying to positon himself as authority like I said earlier.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

In my mind...

of UNOwen/SK
UNOwen/Bingle
Bingle/SK

I would try to find which of these 3 pairings tomorrow makes the least sense based on the kill today, night results and readnig the interactions between each pair across the game

and whichever pairing makes the least sense, kill the one who isn't in that pairing (and so is present in both other pairings)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think different pairings have different fears going into tomorrow, kill different ones of us and given night actions, if Bingle's funded we may see a Cross guilty between Bingle and someone, whether Bingle is town or scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah I guess I should use a hypothetically funded JK outside of Bingle and just hope that he's town, right

if Bingle is scum it gives him a free kill but if he's funded he'd have to fake a result anyways and if he's not funded he can take that up with UNOwen

Hmmm.

Yeah I concur.

It isn't like a JK is more than a guilty, right? Like, it doesn't earn us another miselim, so it's just the same as a guilty.

It's probably okay to wifom it a little but if you're gonna like, flip a coin tonight, make it a weighted coin and decide the weight with Bingle being a lower weighting.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think... we probably need to like, plant a flag and say who we think the scumteam is most confidently even if we're not 100% right now to give some idea of why people might kill us.

Right now...I'm killing Bingle tomorrow, so I'm looking at the most likely bingle partner being UNOwen and my townread of SK being correct, but I'm really not confident. I'm pretty confident on Bingle, but less so between SK/UNOwen.

What about you GL?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also, beyond that, do you have any like... final things you want me to examine/final discussions you want to have before we vote and progress the game?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like this is the last time we're realistically going to be alive together, so if you have ANYTHING floating in the back of your mind like "i'm paranoid about this" then now would be a time to like, let me know.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lmfao what

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oic

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okay so like, there are enough of us online at this point where at least one of SK and KDowns has to be scum, which makes me feel good about things a bit

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I guess there's also the soft inno last night, right? like LLD you definitely tracked Alisae who went nowhere?

yeah

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was between UNOwen and Ali for who I wanted to track

[Lady Lambdadelta]

At this point, I'm just gonna vote KDowns, unless there's objections to progressing this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

ok yeah I'll try to put Alisae paranoia to bed

I feel especially better because of how many people are online right now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't wanna wait around again GLLLLLLLLLLLLL

is there anything else you wanna talk or can I vote KDowns and like, go pick up my prescription

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Kdowns

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll respond to everything but first I wanna give a huge shout out to my friend Meowth who fucking got informed by me that they had a bus coming their way before I put them in the ground and went down like a fucking champ.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Meowth may not feel this way but they earned every inch of this win with us by making me look so good.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD I hope you know I will never feel truly safe townreading you again after this

this was like the one game where I was most sure you were town

yeah, i know ahaha

it's okay, this is a lesson everyone learns exactly once, and then i never get free rides ever again.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

wow this was scum LLD
wow Ali really did just not doc Andante
wild stuff. gg!

yeah, sorry about that

[Lady Lambdadelta]

wowowow I was FINESSED

very well played by the scum team, we got destroyed. I think especially y'all blocked together super well, this game is a lesson for me in how good mafia buddies take care of eachother.

I never should have let go of that Alisae push I was so confident in it and then everyone chipped me down :[ that's my big regret from this game, maybe we could have ultimately got LLD at the end cause I was sometimes wondering why she was still alive, but... damn. sheep kill was really smart and well played too. just a dominant scum performance gg well done y'all

yeah the finesse from me at the ending day to start burning my towncred like it was going out of style to ensure Ali didn't die when she was more or less confirmed scum to you was I think my best move here.

I was playing a little more laid back after the day 1 bus, so once it came time to turn on the jets it was Furtive and KDowns out the airlock, and that was always the plan. How I did it was improvised but I knew I could burn enough cred to achieve it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Gg well played scum!

<3

Enjoyed playing with you friend, been a long time nice to see you in a game

[Lady Lambdadelta]

it's okay, this is a lesson everyone learns exactly once, and then i never get free rides ever again.

Pfffft. That wasn't a free ride. I put a lot of effort into getting you townread.

fair

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I enjoyed the game all. I think there was a bit of inertia inherent in the setup design being reliant on the treasurer decision that made it a bit rough on town, but honestly that was also exacerbated by the treasurer just always being scum.

oh, ALSO

I uh, time for a The Genius rewind moment

if town had hammered at any time during treasurer thinking time, before a treasurer input their choices, the treasurer would be forced to input a budget anyway before the flip, i asked shea

there was never any reason to worry about a no budget round, and so the me humming and hawwing over choices was a weaponized item I used to both give me space from the game and also to demoralize players and make them just... accept choices and move on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if this ever gets run again, pressure your treasurers