Weird Dreams Mafia I [Gone]

[Botanical Rat]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Step one of being a cult leader is to deny being a cult leader

[Botanical Rat]

Also, in case anyone else didn't notice... Gimli appears to be hated

[Botanical Rat]

But if you recruit us you won't have to worry about us catching you!

[Botanical Rat]

I will be shocked and appalled if there's no cult in this game

[Botanical Rat]

I'm really not sure what the point of voting people to run the nightmare really is. Shouldn't we decide who gets the invention and "force" the people in the nightmare to give that person the invention? Following with this thought shouldn't we also decide how these inventions should be used?

In an ideal world, you'd be right.

However, in my experience trying to wrangle enough people to agree on this many things within a single day's deadline is an exercise in futility. Either someone not paying attention mucks it up, or we spend too much time squabbling and scramble things at deadline.

We do definitely want the Nightmare to be Town though, so I'd say just vote your townreads for now.

[Botanical Rat]

Need to note that FN in this way its setup assuming we give it to player A and they say they use it on player B will mean:

If A is town B is town (or they get a guilty assuming no interfere)

If A is not town then they received no skill in the first place to use so we have no info on B besides a wifom

Its actually too conditional so I'm not entirely sure if its best play. We still have till night phase to think about these inventions though

Sore wa chigau yo!

If A is not Town, and B claims to receive a Friendly Neighbor, we now have a pretty solid reason to believe B is not Town.

[Botanical Rat]

Ah that was already said. Point stands though

[Botanical Rat]

I don't want to place a serious vote until I hear from bianco, but I definitely have one in mind

[Botanical Rat]

I don't want to place a serious vote until I hear from bianco, but I definitely have one in mind

I want you to talk about this RR

who you wanna vote?

DragonEater. I think his tone is off, and his assertion that being hated only makes sense as Town is very silly. I think he could potentially be attempting to pocket you

[Botanical Rat]

As an aside, I (Radical Rat) will be V/LA until next Thursday.

I'll try to pop in every so often still, but once activity picks up I'm not likely to be able to stay caught up

[Botanical Rat]

The Nightmare

The Nightmare is the final special mechanic of the game, and all information within this post is guaranteed to be truthful. During the day, until day 6, all players will vote for who should Run The Nightmare. Players may vote for as many, or as little players as they would like at any given time, but only seven players may Run the Nightmare each night. This vote is done using the Heal or Hurt tags. (HURT: Korina, Drel, Fay, Meowth would count as a vote for all four names.) I personally prefer the hurt tags because they're more visible on mafblack.

This vote is a plural vote. If no majority is reached by the end of the day, the players with the most votes will automatically be added to the Nightmare. If there is a tie, and the number of tied players is greater than the number of available slots, the player who got the most votes first will run the nightmare. If nobody gets any votes, I will randomly draw names to decide who will be running.

In the Nightmare, all seven players must vote to decide who to award a 1-shot invention to. The inventions are as follows.

- Vigilante
- Doctor
- Roleblocker
- Tracker
- Friendly Neighbor (This ability will fail if it is not awarded to a member of the Good Dreams.)

If a consensus is not reached by the end of the night, the ability will be lost and nobody will be awarded the ability. The results of the nightmare, (specifically what ability was awarded), will be announced at the start of the day.

@Mod

For Friendly Neighbor does it fail to be awarded, or fail on use?

[Botanical Rat]

Well there goes my thought of using it as a Cop.

I still think Friendly Neighbor is the best out of the list though.

[Botanical Rat]

@Mod

Does the Nightmare take place in the main thread or a PT?

And are scum in the Nightmare still allowed to talk to their partners?

[Botanical Rat]

Okay so. Scum being able to communicate with partners while in the Nightmare makes it absolutely IMPERATIVE that scum not be allowed in. Otherwise they can just shoot whoever gets the invention the same night.

[Botanical Rat]

So I would like to direct a question for Empath:
Why did you vote Enchant?

We can hear his answer, but I feel we've already amply gone there.

Which means you thought the possibility of it being a RVS vote was enough to warrant mention. AKA you said it could be a RVS vote.

VOTE: Enchant

empath I can't follow your line of thinking

so you think enchant is scummy cause he voted someone for a possible rvs vote while saying it was a bad vote?

I Thought Enchant was scummy because voting Eater for an obvious RVS vote seems ridiculous to me (Although if Eater RVSed someone who was v:la or such that would be a different story.) and they contradicted themselves. Eater seemingly claiming that their vote was not RVS has given me second thoughts.

Enchant did vote you because your vote was bad "even for RVS" (cfr. 96), and thereafter said that he did not believe it to be RVS (cfr. 121, 126). I can see why this could ping Empath, introducing an hypotetical scenario while at the same time explicitly excluding it is a kind of behaviour that I think is more likely to come from scum, at least I know that I [bianco] would be more likely to do that as scum.

Your vote being rvs or not should not matter much for this, so I'm actually more interested in the second thoughts

[Botanical Rat]

Catching up. For now I've just skimmed from where I left and I'll do a quick take of what pinged me, I'll do some ISOs perhaps later.

About Clone.

Spoiler: His ISO

thought I had missed something for a minute, im not one to get notifications, anywhere

lets do this

VOTE: Vote: Dr. Drew

still don't trust you especially not with those eyes

I was saying effort itself was slightly towny

effort can be scum, lack of effort can be towny. depends how you see that effort or lack of

at least I came back after a prod lul
VOTE:
Vote Gimli

Coming back just to prodge

is

gross and my gut would indeed direct me to find this overtly scummy, however that's not what I find most incriminating. Now, he was Town in greentexts and that's it for meta, so ymmv on a metaread, but; there I confess that I was wrongly scumreading his slot, but for things he actually said. I had the impression that he was putting some effort in reacting to accusations levied toward him, which isn't what's happening here. What's happening here is he responded to a direct accusation by lashing out a vote bearing no conviction, much like he just did not care.

Some other random thoughts, mostly about Porkens/Ranger

Ranger’s posts reek scum. The posting method they are following is super easy to do as scum.

Weirdly, I get very strong scum pings of your posts being precisely this.

I don't disagree with Ranger that Porkens is being somewhat of an hypocrite here. What I do disagree with is this brand of hypocrisy being on a vacuum +scum, the opposite in fact. I'd expect scum to be aware enough of what they're basing their false accusations on to be more likely not fail this blatantly at veering clear of getting caught doing the same thing.

[...]

This particular hypocrisy is very open and indicates a lack of self-consciousness that I find to be towny/TWTBAW.

Here. I assume Empath was trying to say the same thing I'm saying. Any sr of Porkens based chiefly on that hypocrisy is bad.

I don't ~think~ I'm being disingenuous but I suppose it's a possibility.

I literally laid out two examples.

Clinging to OMGUS when my read on you has nothing to do with your read on me is disingenuous. I

couldn't

have had a read on you prior to your posts because your slot had no posts. Your very first post was scumreading me.

Quoting a--spoiled, titled appropriately to mark its ooc nature--post and stating it was an overreaction/overdefensive when it was marked as not game related is explicitly disingenuous.

Beyond those, stating my style is easy for scum to do is also disingenuous, because as plenty have noted: I've a long track record establishing my playstyle.

bolding

mine. I strongly disagree that it is actively disingenuous. I'm of the opinion that everything posted in-thread, discounting rl stuff like V/LAs and whatnot, is game related, otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to post it in the game. That said, I do wonder why exactly things got so fixated on the "disingenuity" allegation. Confront:

I don't ~think~ I'm

being

disingenuous but I suppose it's a possibility.

Doesn’t “disingenuous” refer to my intent?

Now I'm going to do a semantic argument, but bear with me. Here Porkens is saying they concede they may

be

disingenuous (note the verb. Not "come off as", or "appear", but "be"),

and

they say that they believe the word "disingenous" to refer to intent. Which is not a thing that globally makes sense, since surely Porkens would know what their intent

was

.
Here what it looks to me; Porkens got a composite accusation. Debating one's own tone is fruitless, and they couldn't very well navigate the hypocrisy charge since they realized they just got caught up on that. So they tried to railroad toward the disingenuity allegation, attempting to be conciliating on it while at the same time trying to brush off the more damaging shades of it, those about intent.
VOTE: Porkens


A nightmare vote shall wait actually doing some ISOs. Which will probably mean after some sleep since I'm tired.


(Also, just a note,

“XYZ is towny, abc is scummy”

Quote quote quote

Meta meta

Self meta

Wall wall wall

Solve solve solve

Y’all need to take a break and a shower. Bunch of sweaty try-hards.

Jkjkjk!

I feel like if I had special glasses I could see through the miasma and reveal the two-three scum just floating off in the corners and the one or two doggy paddling furiously to stay afloat in this sea of “solving.”


Sigh lemme iso drew

pedit: when you make a low effort post then start personally attacking the entire playerlist I have nothing to believe other than openwolfing

I do actually concur with Porkens that talking about personal attacks for this is a bit emotionally charged. I can maybe see Porkens' post being hostile if I squint, but I must confess that seeing accusations of personal attacks, which to me would imply a nefarious extra-game intent of the person behind the slot, being levied so easily does make me a little uneasy)

[Botanical Rat]

[...]

112 and 268 from Meg are bad (both wishywashy fencesitty stuff) and if I wasn't still happy voting TemporalLich I'd probably be voting Meg instead.

Oh and I see Meg's fishing as well... yeah, VOTE: MegAzumarill

(P-edit: random fact of the day: the [post] tag only seems to work with 'post' written in lower case.)

Define fishing

Because the implication here is that you are saying its an intentional role signal in which case your response makes about 0 sense. If it isn't I'd like at least some explanation.

I do see where Meg is going with this, but I'd rather it be spelled explicitly. Is it that you consider {Imaginality's interpreting you noticing that potential "Nightmare" crumb as fishing} alone confirming to you that it is indeed a crumb?
I don't agree, but I do like you making the observation.

HURT: MegA, Porkens, Ranger,

Interested what people think about the possible Imaginality signaling.

This is the first time I think the nigthmare issue has been brought up at all. The incriminated post is quoted in full in the post immediately after, but there is no immediate explanation as to what that signaling is exactly until DE asked. So Meg clearly believed that just by directing attention to that post what was wrong with it would be immediately obvious, which I don't think is the state of mind of a scum attempting to throw shade, in that case I'd expect the explanation that came in #594 to come umprompted toghether with #589.
Do note that Meg has Imaginality on the spotlight since before referring to the crumb situation, specifically #268+

Not really sure how to parse imaginalities opening here because it feels very forceful and I don't think scum would draw that attention to themselves but also I don't think town has reason to do that.

I mean it feels like making a mountain out of a common occurence (discussing RVS) and making a read purely off of that feels a bit unnatural

, so it would make sense for Meg to be keeping an eye on that slot specifically.


HURT: Rat, Ranger, Meg

I dont think saying "I don't think I'm

being

disingenuous" is any meaningfully different from "I'm not trying to read you in bad faith".

Eh, I also wouldn't, but that's because I don't personally define disingenuity in such a way to necessitate ill intent. The problem is it being accosted with Porkens' 566 where they spelt out that it does the way they understand the word. One could feasibly be intellecutally dishonest without doing so intentionally; one could not act with ill intent unknowingly.

[Botanical Rat]

Plus, like, you're not going to figure this out by *not* voting Clone. Voting Clone is at least marginally better in that maybe it causes Clone to do more

Strong disagree.

3 posts, no content, acknowledging a prod.
That's a slot that doesn't care about anyones read or pressure. Voting there is going to do less than nothing.

Hell I'd go as far as saying that wagons scum driven.

Agree, if the concept is voting Clone to elicit some response that isn't going to work, it's really a deadfish slot. However, @Flea, if you look at greentexts (where he was town), he appeared to actually care at least some about players sr'ing him, which is not what is happening here.

if clone is scum and you're scum you're gonna have to learn the basics which is MURDER THIS SLOT

if you're town I get what you're saying but flipping clone is at least a great base elimination for the day. we find something better we move there, sure.

your weird defense of Clone is not helping Clone's case

pedit: agreed, Clone is low effort lurking scum who is caught in an associative... I highly doubt Clone and Doctor Drew is an SvT interaction

Ladies and gentlemen, here is the difference between a town mentality(Gimli) and scum mentality (TL).

@Drew, does {you considering that post from TL as showing scum mentality} inform your read on Clone? If one assumes that TL there is scum motivated to shade you that would really only work if Clone isn't town.

[Botanical Rat]

HOLD IT!

Everyone voting StD based on this needs to chill.

This game is confirmed to have moderator lies in it. Anything outside of what we know to be true should not impact our decisions

[Botanical Rat]

Okay imaginality already brought that up. I got jumpy because I saw people tossing votes

[Botanical Rat]

Honestly I think it's protown to out Kyoko's mason partner because scum already know who it is based on the Kyoko kill.
However I won't do it without consensus from the nightmare runners because I could always be missing something.
Pedit: Flea, I know who's Kyoko's partner so that's who am clearing.

No. While the Kyoko kill is INCREDIBLY concerning, there's a non-zero chance it was just a lucky shot. No reason to hand scum the other one, just in case.

[Botanical Rat]

Those of us from the Nightmare can verify the mason claim if they choose to come forward, but otherwise we should keep a lid on that

[Botanical Rat]

I still feel Save The Dragons' reaction to the mod message is kind of scummy... basically denying it with no elaboration

that being said, with three green flips I want to re-evaluate my reads

oh and I will add myself to my nightmare vote as it is clearly important to make sure town is in the nightmare

HURT: KawaiiKame, Gimli, Morning Tweet, DragonEater70, Doctor Drew, TemporalLich

pedit: I mean I guess... Kyoko was very towny so it's not too far off from what would be a normal scum nightkill

Wouldn't it make more sense to claim to be a Town killing role instead? Clearly we have them.

[Botanical Rat]

yeah... that would make a lot more sense... instead Save The Dragons claims the message was a lie with no elaboration

I mean if he genuinely doesn't have a killing role, what would you expect him to say?

[Botanical Rat]

I'm here, I'm playing. It's been all me so far today

[Botanical Rat]

I feel like bacon today tbh

[Botanical Rat]

I'm here, I'm playing. It's been all me so far today

What do you think of the game in this state?

I think StD is highly likely a mislim, and the quick votes on him looked really bad.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say this whole "saw in a dream" bit is going to happen every night and that some will be true and some false, with that being the guaranteed lies present in the setup, but that's pure speculation for now.

[Botanical Rat]

I mean why is std highly likely a mislim? that seems like a strong townread no?

Same deal as Mutiny I guess. It's a bad push for bad reasons and I don't like it.

[Botanical Rat]

I fear this game has a some people who are doing a good job 'acting' like they are solving.

And others falling for it.

What did you mean by this? Who is acting like they solving?

More a general statement. People will superficially look at post and say 'It looks like they are solving, they are town', without looking at the meat and potatoes of said post.

And conversely, if someone is more working off vibe and not posting these analytical posts they 'aren't solving at all, they are scum'

Just don't like that mindset that sometimes takes over a game.

It's really odd that you don't have any feelings at all about who's doing this. Was this thought not sparked by seeing someone with rotten meat and potatoes?

[Botanical Rat]

Let's say StD is scum here.
He has two options when that announcement gets made. He can either attempt to CC the mod and slog through what's happening now. Or he can just admit to being able to kill.

In a wacky role madness setup, just claiming a killing ability makes way more sense to me. Not that scum COULDN'T do what StD is, but it's not scum-indicative at all either. And the reaction has been incredibly disingenuous for a game with known mod lies in it.

[Botanical Rat]

I don't have a kill.

I believe you

Why?

Why don't you?
It's possible the mod is lying is why

I don't see why the mod would lie about that. I don't believe they are honestly trying to "expose the mods lie".

What do you think the mod "would" lie about then?

[Botanical Rat]

I had a curious thought.

@Mod

In the hypothetical event that one's alignment were to change, would an ability that reveals or interacts with their alignment use their alignment at the start of the night, or the end of the night?

[Botanical Rat]

I had a curious thought.

@Mod

In the hypothetical event that one's alignment were to change, would an ability that reveals or interacts with their alignment use their alignment at the start of the night, or the end of the night?

I haven't been culted if that's what you were asking.

Yet

I was just thinking about how you were asking to be recruited earlier, and were I a cult leader I'd be inclined to oblige.

Had a tinfoil thought TL could be leader claiming an inno on their recruit, wanted to rule out the possibility of the cop being genuine but the check invalid.

I'm not committing the tinfoil thought to an actual theory yet, but it is a thought I had.

[Botanical Rat]

I had a curious thought.

@Mod

In the hypothetical event that one's alignment were to change, would an ability that reveals or interacts with their alignment use their alignment at the start of the night, or the end of the night?

I haven't been culted if that's what you were asking.

Yet

I was just thinking about how you were asking to be recruited earlier, and were I a cult leader I'd be inclined to oblige.

Had a tinfoil thought TL could be leader claiming an inno on their recruit, wanted to rule out the possibility of the cop being genuine but the check invalid.

I'm not committing the tinfoil thought to an actual theory yet, but it is a thought I had.

Is this Bianco or Rat?

And in the event that there is a CL, you think they would be a cop as well?

This is Rat. Haven't heard from bianco yet this phase.

But no, in the potential world where TL recruited you, there's no cop check at all. It would be a pure fabrication to give you both towncred and cover any potential tracking situations. My question about results was to see if TL could have been a real cop, and a different person recruited you.

Basically trying to determine whether I should have your alignments entangled in my mind or not.

[Botanical Rat]

@clone, fuck you. Just why? Like seriously why did you think it could be a good idea to just shit on the whole playerlist, and on the mods who surely did work hard on this? On top of the omophobia just to put a cherry on top

@Gimli, I sent you strawberries tonight, sad that you couldn't receive them