i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[kitten around]

I didn’t realize this had started. Will try to do a catchup later. I’m kind of disappointed that Dannflor was replaced. I was hoping to solve him correctly this time.

[kitten around]

I’m sorry everyone I haven’t been feeling great but so far, I’m liking MT and STD. Will add more reads as I catch up.

[kitten around]

Catching up, I very much doubt that Titus says she has a mod confirmed read on someone unless it’s true. I think it’s possible Ranger actually believes what she’s saying but I don’t understand how she can both townread Titus and still think she’s either somehow being misinformed or less than honest?

I am not going to vote a player that Titus says is mod confirmed. That’s just sounds way too specific to not be true.

[kitten around]

Now answer me this: give a single reason beyond the claim for imaginality to be town.

You don't have to be sold on town!Imaginality, but I don't see why he is the best wagon.

I don’t really have good reasons to call imaginify town but I don’t think the reasons for the votes on him are that good either. Lazy/weak play is rather unimpressive as a reason since it feels like they just got off to a bad start that got capitalized on.
Aside from that a main focus is pushing a 1v1 of me vs. Frogsterking. I don’t really have an issue here except with you buying into that while having me all the way down in your reads. I don’t think you should be calling that a problem except if you think either a) me and Frog are both town or b) I would feel bold enough to go toe-to-toe with Frog as scum here and feel like I could come out relatively unscathed. Clearly you don’t believe a), so what about my play so far suggests b) to be true?
Lastly, the “disingenuous paragraph” may overgeneralize the votes but it captures a lot of what I feel like is wrong with the imaginify wagon. And I think the writing feels towny given how imprecise it is: scum would try to ensure clarity in that paragraph imo.

I guess the one thing that does stick out to me is the use of “noncommittal” as a thing people are calling their okay when that was used to refer to furtive iirc

THIS ^^^

we don't have a deadline.

why are we rushing to eliminate someone when the case on them is this flimsy?

This feels like virtue signalling. I doubt you don't know what a pressure wagon is.

Based on what I've been taught about "wagonomics"

circus noises

Redirecting attention onto furtive and Ythan reveals the intriguing possibility that the spoiler quotes are scum theater:

Everyone read this out loud and hear how ridiculous it sounds.

I think you're unnaturally focused on Frogster's posts. Looking at your ISO, most of your posts are about/to Frogster, and I feel like town would be casting a wider net.

I’m torn about these posts. I like CSF’s question to Ranger but I think calling Quiet Owl’s not wanting to rush a wagon, especially one with a mason claim on it - is hella weird.

CSF please explain how is that “virtue signaling”? We have Titus claiming a mod confirmed mason claim on Imaginality and QC doesn’t want to rush that wagon.

I have see bogus mason claims in lots of games but never one where a player said it was mod confirmed.

[kitten around]

Because Imaginality is not even close to getting eliminated... I don't think he is even the top wagon. The wagon only feels sticky because many players have not checked in since Titus' claim due to Christmas. I expect the wagon will fall apart once people's activities pick up again.

I just don’t understand why it’s virtue signalling, why can’t it be a genuine take?

[kitten around]

Not being super invested in the game on Christmas and focusing on one thing, if anything at all, is reasonable. But CSF

is

correct in the regard that your full ISO is filled with a lot of interactions with Froggy, as well as general fluff. Not a super fan of that fact.

Probably need to give the Titus and imaginality thing a twice over tomorrow but for now this one is willing to follow Ranger's hypothesis on town!Titus and scum!imaginality. Feel like a lot of the "open at start" PT stuff is just splitting hairs though. Also skeptical about the wacky "mod-confirmed" Mason claim on D1.

Catching up,

I very much doubt that Titus says she has a mod confirmed read on someone unless it’s true.

I think it’s possible Ranger actually believes what she’s saying but I don’t understand how she can both townread Titus and still think she’s either somehow being misinformed or less than honest?

I am not going to vote a player that Titus says is mod confirmed.

That’s just sounds way too specific to not be true.

Do you think it's true or not? You can't seem to make up your mind.

I think it’s extremely clear I believe it’s true. How is that not obvious?

[kitten around]

y'know what i think the imaginality wagon is downright suspicious.
VOTE: Ranger but also a reminder to future owl: remember cat scratch and lycanfire.

did a votecount: don't take it at face value, i've messed these up in the past.

5 players voting for imaginality (furtiveglance, Ranger, Lycanfire, tris, Elements, HighPrincessErinys)
4 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality)
3 players voting for Ranger (Titus, Gamma Emerald, Quiet Owl)
2 players voting for Elements (Save The Dragons, Cat Scratch Fever)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

6 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, Enchant, Morning Tweet, Frogsterking)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

CSF does have a point but for me it’s more so Titus’ claim but noted. Quiet Own why are you voting Ranger if you see no reason to rush the wagons?

[kitten around]

I don’t understand how she can both townread Titus and still think she’s somehow being less than honest?

Because I know how Titus operates intimately and a town Titus being less than honest is explicitly par for the course.

literally who is rushing to eliminate besides maybe Ranger (and even then her vote might change)?

You're not the first to suggest I'm rushing to eliminate.

Where's the narrative come from?

I'm certainly making a case as to why we shouldn't let imaginality coast on a claim I don't believe is true, but that's far from rushing the day through. My reads will change, especially when given compelling (counter-)arguments.

And, yes, my vote may indeed change.

{Save The Dragons, HighPrincessErinys, Cat Scratch Fever, Frogsterking}
{Titus}
{Morning Tweet, Lycanfire, tris}
{KittyTacky, Elements}
{GeorgeBailey, Enchant, McMenno}
{kitten around}
{Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, Not_Mafia}
{Ythan}
{furtiveglance}
{Gamma Emerald}
{Quiet Owl}
{imaginality}

Ranger explain to me how you have Titus so high but not believing her claim? If you strongly townread her and she’s saying Imaginality is mod confirmed town, why aren’t you believing her?

Also mod, please prod Vaxkiller, tapocaphobe and Not_Mafia

[kitten around]

Frogster appeal on activity for some reason make him trustworthy

I think he sounds really frustrated here, so I lean town.

[kitten around]

VOTE: Ythan

I lean the opposite way that McMenno does, I feel like Ythan zeroed in on something thaat wasnt frog's central point. I think frog is using the activity stuff in order to confirm what he already thinks, as opposed to using it to make the reads in the first place.

Granted though that it's a stretch to say "Scum post a lot except when they don't" to confirm both scum that post a lot and don't post a lot LMFAO. Plus I skimmed and Frog and Ythan have been on each other's casesa ll game. I'm talking myself out of this

Spoiler: examples

Here's the scum post from a previous game which Ythan's 62 pinged me for:

viewtopic.php?p=13548554#p13548554

Huh?? Are you talking about the capitalization?

Excuse me

I feel like the capitalization helped me to draw the connection and the underlying pattern is shade posted in the format of a question with feigned conviction.

Oh.

VOTE: Frogsterking

I kind of skimmed the last few paegs I don't think frogsterking is looking that great here

VOTE: frogsterking

I agree with this. Not much else to go on here but the weird claim but whatever for right now.

Friend you are blinded by your love of frogs.

Yeah enjoy rope lol.

In case anyone is getting burned out trying to read the thread just skip Gamma's posts, they're all intentionally full of shit to waste your time.

I think you might be projecting here.

Really fake and unnatural sorting.

Keep crying

And that's not even half of it

On one hand it makes more sense now that Ythan isn't really directly engaging with Frog, we're kind of past that. On the other it is really hard to find content that isn't Ythan reacting to Frog saying something she finds ridiculous. Which could potentially be an easy way to interact with the game as scum, or potentially she's tunnelled

this interaction with furtive is one of the only interactions that dont involve frog

Spoiler:

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

That looks like a lot of words to justify a non committal vote.

It goes on longer but essentially Ythan interpreted 328 as a lot of words meaning nothing, whereas furtive argued that it did mean something, it meant that he was sheeping a townread. no opinion

I don't like Ythan's reaction to being wagoned by ele, I'll leave my vote

I see your point. She said she’d catch-up, so I’m going to wait for that.

[kitten around]

post by post frog analysis: (22 out 126 posts read, taking a lunch break, sorry about the lack of readability formatting)

Spoiler:

post 69

- to be taken with salt, as intro posts ideally should be provocative in order to start readable discussion. HOWEVER, the reads here are contradictory and garbage.
frog reads:

1. tris scum, for "awkward looking questions" - garbage take
   
2. ythan scum, specifically for asking someone their opinion on another player - also a garbage take! seems like everyone in the thread is asking such questions, including frog himself.
   
3. erinys scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
4. lycanfire scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
5. furtive, csf and gamma town, meta handwaving

at this stage,

1. furtive has particpated in random voting, cracked jokes, and requested realtime interaction. why is furtive towny for this, but erinys and lycanfire are actively scummy? contradictions: 1
   
2. csf is asking questions but also giving reads. up until #85 i also pegged her as town.
   
3. gamma has done basically nothing at this point. how can you possibly read her as town at that point.

post 76

- backs off on tris when questioned, stands his ground on the ythan read. does not acknowledge this is contradictory. contradictions: 2

post 79

- backs off on lycan, stands ground on erinys. contradictions: 3

post 81

- interested in reasons to town read ythan

post 86

- picks up on csf's weird scummy feeling 85 post,

here begins the frog vs csf era

post 90

- meta discussion of csf

post 94

- frog vs csf fight fight fight fight
frog reads:

1. lycanfire, town, for "doubling down on questioning" so questioning is scum behaviour until the questioner tries applying pressure?
   
2. csf, scum, for questioning his flimsy initial reads.

post 97

- makes a :/ face at csf for voting erinys, who frog reads as scum

"viewing it from a PoV where scum!ythan sees an opportunity to frame town!csf in a scummy light"

the two people viewing csf in a scummy light here are frog and myself. ythan made no such attempt. agree with gamma here: "I feel like Ythan saw CSF’s play at that point as pressing others for reads rather than working on making her own so she opted to press CSF on it"

more frog vs csf

post 100

- asking csf for a reads list even though supposedly asking for opinions is scummy

post 108

- dislikes csf's small reads list, weakly applies pressure

post 110

- i don't even know here. csf didn't post on page one and therefore her question here is valid. how on earth would it be +scum? how on earth is posting a readslist with no justifications +town for ranger? this just feels like cheap theatre.

post 115

- frog vs csf

post 118

- frog vs csf, frog wavers on ythan

post 124

- links his own scum post as proof that ythan #62 is scummy??
frog reads:

1. enchant, weak town, for mech spec?
   
2. andree, weak town, for mech spec?

post 125

- frog reads:

1. ythan, scum
   
2. princess, scum
   
3. furtive, scum
   
4. ranger, town

no new reasons provided for these reads. asking ranger for reads on george, erinys, and gamma

post 142

- frog reads:

1. morning tweet, town
   
2. KT, town

no reasons provided.

post 145

-

"as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them."

frog is trying to feed people reasons to read him as town here. i do the same thing as scum.

no comment on the gamma comments other than frog reads: gamma, scum

"This is the kind of overreaction I think can be scum indicative."

frog questioned erinys's identity with his gimmick comment earlier, hence the negative reaction. this should be obvious.

"I noticed that you went straight to attacking my reasoning rather than questioning whether or not it was scum motivated."

so people shouldn't challenge flawed reasoning? excuse me?

(directed to csf)

"I think it's somewhat likely that I overreacted because you've read me right quickly in the past. I was thinking about it and I'm no longer convinced that there's a scum motivation for you to play this way. I'm not sure how defined your playstyle is as scum but I'm picturing you as more pockety and under the radar when you're scum. I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

this is the end of frog vs csf.

i don't understand and am not remotely convinced by his reasoning to drop the scum!scf case.

literal omgus response to mcmenno for voting him

post 147

- no comment

post 149

- the ol' 62-124 ythan accusation. no comment here other than as previously stated i think this is not indicative of ythan's alignment either way. indicative of frog's because he keeps pushing this as scumtell gospel? absolutely.

post 153

-

"I can literally bury Gamma with a case based purely on meta."

ok why don't you then.
backing up the bluster here with action would help frog achieve the quickhammer he supposedly wants, and yet he seems content with just casting aspersions.

no comment on the joke/serious tris bit

post 154

-

"I can quote from not one, not two, not three, but four separate scum games which each show Gamma is deep in her scum meta right now."

show us the games, mr frog.

post 156

- gloating, putting on a show of confidence

I’ve been trying to stay caught up with this game but explain to me how this is getting votes? This reads like a transparently townie thought process.

[kitten around]

Owl or Frog?

Owl, I think Owl’s analysis makes sense because I don’t understand many of Frog’s takes. He posted examples of scum making fake claims but none of those claims used the exact expression “mod confirmed”. I’ve never seen a fake claim in any mafia game ever where scum used that specific phrasing.

You need to look for those little tells not ignore them, so I don’t understand how Frog is ignoring that. I could see town!Frog being really tunnelled. I also think if he were scum, he’d be less likely to keep changing his vote since scum in general aren’t very adaptable.

[kitten around]

what the balls have we even played together ranger

Probably not directly but I'm still familiar with your meta.

Great! Now you've caught up do you have any reads?

I recognize the sarcasm, but to answer; I will elaborate on any read I'm asked about. (Just don't ask me to do every read all at once, limit of ~5 at a time.)

Ranger's readwall looks determined to avoid rule of 3.

That's simply the product of no three players sharing an identical read strength at the end of any given page. There was one spot where I had all of {tris, Frogsterking, +1} on one tier, there was a time where I had {Cat Scratch Fever, Morning Tweet, +1} on one tier, etc. It's just that by the end of the page it had solidified to not quite be three and instead had one be higher or lower than the rest.

There will be precisely 3 players in a tier when there are precisely 3 players with the same exact strength in read. No sooner, no later.

Do you think I got schmoozed earlier by quiet owl, ranger?

I think their entrance is disproportionately scum, yes. The callout of multiball feels out of place and potentially TMI. (It's a xyzzy game so I certainly wouldn't be surprised, but entering the game

assuming

multiball isn't town.) Calling CSF-Frogsterking SvT or SvS isn't a thought impossible, but the way the thought was handled makes me believe it wasn't a true town thought. They've given no reads beyond just those two, in spite of apparently being caught up on the game.

I can

see

why you'd think they're town, but I disagree and feel the slot is strongly scum.

I’d be willing to do a Quiet Owl elim. That’s a good point.

I don’t understand why thinking it could be multiball is bad? Anything and everything is possible in an Xyzzy game. I’ve seen alignment changes and jesters in some of their past games for example, so I think game being not only bastard but mech complex is quite likely.

[kitten around]

Yes because asking a basic question while resisting the urge to punch a wall somehow makes me townier.

You okay?

Going to try to catch up while on a break. Might disappear have been having a rough shift.

If frog isn't town that all seems very deliberate, almost jestery

Pretty much. It's easy to point out how thin frog's reads can be sometimes, considering he tries to read the entire game immediately regardless of how much actual content there is. It's less easy to prove he's scum based off of that. I think the most of Owl's post makes frog's thought processes seem illogical but not for any particular purpose.

this part caught my eye though:

post 145 - "as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them."
frog is trying to feed people reasons to read him as town here. i do the same thing as scum.

@Quiet Owl: this comment in frog's post 145 pings me as odd:

"I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

I feel like a townie there would not be saying "+town for both of us" compared with "+town for you". It seems an unnatural way to phrase it and to me makes it feel like frog is more focused on guiding others to read him as town (as with the other comment you noted in the same post) rather than on trying to read others.

I agree this is scummy

I've been waiting for someone else to point it out, but frogster keeps making comments like 'the town needs to stick together' and comes up with town blocs/speaks about the necessity of town blocs (not just one.) Goes from seeing himself as super best friends with Titus to not in the span of 21 posts. I've found the third party read of Ythan cute, but at this point I'm sure this game is multiball.

This seems more like town behaviour than scum behaviour to me. My reads are more static as scum. I also probably wouldn't spin around to tinfoil after mason claims after previously establishing them as town. It all seems like erratic town thought processing. But I'm not frog sure

The more this one thinks about it the less likely it thinks Titus's mason claim is real. Their insistence on things like the PT, knowing imaginality's alignment, etc etc are all convincing, but a D1 outing of two masons when one had at most 7 out of 12 votes and has since dropped from that... It's kind of insane, honestly. Really sketched out by this.

I just can't fathom why or how scum can claim masons with another player on D1 and expect to get anywhere. So I bin them as town pretty much

It's weird that it happened so quickly but i see town claim their roles with less votes tbh. I don't discount that there's something that feels off I guess. Usually masons are kept a tight secret, so you'd expect like maybe imagine claims by himself -- but Titus claimed for imagine, outting 2 masons at once? Why?

Titus seems stressed by something and tends to be pretty suboptimal when stressed. I don’t see this as scum but based on the fact she claimed it I would go with town panic. I did a similar panic as town a long time ago when myself and my mason buddy were the top two wagons.

Math pretending to be empathetic toward Titus is a good sign that Math is lying.

Why do you think there’s two town blocks? That’s rather odd and uncharacteristic of you. Not scummy just unique so I would like to know why.

Sounds like a question more likely to be asked by scum.

Owl or Frog?

Owl, I think Owl’s analysis makes sense because I don’t understand many of Frog’s takes. He posted examples of scum making fake claims but none of those claims used the exact expression “mod confirmed”. I’ve never seen a fake claim in any mafia game ever where scum used that specific phrasing.

You need to look for those little tells not ignore them, so I don’t understand how Frog is ignoring that. I could see town!Frog being really tunnelled. I also think if he were scum, he’d be less likely to keep changing his vote since scum in general aren’t very adaptable.

Seems like white knighting. I find it unlikely kittens actually thinks Owl's analysis is good.

I think the detail of that take looks like Owl put a lot of thought and analysis into that post. It didn’t read to me like iioa. Do you disagree with that?

[kitten around]

In other words I think if it is multiball then everyone is scum hunting so how we find scum changes.

If it’s not multiball then not scum hunting is a valid call out.

Ironically enough I think if it’s singleball Quiet Owl > rand town or multiball > rand scum.

I don’t have any clue but if it’s singleball than it’s very different from any past Xyzzy game I’ve spectated.

[kitten around]

I think the detail of that take looks like Owl put a lot of thought and analysis into that post. It didn’t read to me like iioa. Do you disagree with that?

You're the only one whose bringing up IIOA, AFAIK. I'm saying Quiet Owl's analysis in 906 is pretty sparse and surface level, to the extent that anyone quick with a mouse and keyboard could write it in 30 seconds upon request, even if they've never played a game of mafia in their life. I think if you were really Town it would be easier for you to recognize this.

I'm open to believing you that you're confused about my reaction, I think what could be happening is that you're pretending to view the game how you think a townie would, and you skimmed Owl's post and thought it would be normal townie thing to be persuaded by. It isn't.

I suppose that’s possible? I did think it made sense as a valid analysis and still do. I suppose it’s possible scum could also have made that post. It just really made sense to me because of what I know about past Xyzzy games.

[kitten around]

It just really made sense to me because of what I know about past Xyzzy games.

What does this mean?

Xyzzy setups are frequently either bastard or mech complex if not both. They had a jester in one game and a scum recruiter role in another and I think you look like you’re trying to solve but ignoring things like Titus saying “mod confirmed” for example.

But if this game is anything like those other Xyzzy games I spectated, then it explains why I’m so confused so far in this game. I expect that will change once we get some flips.

[kitten around]

Okay and the reasons for Frogger are…?

post by post frog analysis: (22 out 126 posts read, taking a lunch break, sorry about the lack of readability formatting)

Spoiler:

post 69

- to be taken with salt, as intro posts ideally should be provocative in order to start readable discussion. HOWEVER, the reads here are contradictory and garbage.
frog reads:

1. tris scum, for "awkward looking questions" - garbage take
   
2. ythan scum, specifically for asking someone their opinion on another player - also a garbage take! seems like everyone in the thread is asking such questions, including frog himself.
   
3. erinys scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
4. lycanfire scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
5. furtive, csf and gamma town, meta handwaving

at this stage,

1. furtive has particpated in random voting, cracked jokes, and requested realtime interaction. why is furtive towny for this, but erinys and lycanfire are actively scummy? contradictions: 1
   
2. csf is asking questions but also giving reads. up until #85 i also pegged her as town.
   
3. gamma has done basically nothing at this point. how can you possibly read her as town at that point.

post 76

- backs off on tris when questioned, stands his ground on the ythan read. does not acknowledge this is contradictory. contradictions: 2

post 79

- backs off on lycan, stands ground on erinys. contradictions: 3

post 81

- interested in reasons to town read ythan

post 86

- picks up on csf's weird scummy feeling 85 post,

here begins the frog vs csf era

post 90

- meta discussion of csf

post 94

- frog vs csf fight fight fight fight
frog reads:

1. lycanfire, town, for "doubling down on questioning" so questioning is scum behaviour until the questioner tries applying pressure?
   
2. csf, scum, for questioning his flimsy initial reads.

post 97

- makes a :/ face at csf for voting erinys, who frog reads as scum

"viewing it from a PoV where scum!ythan sees an opportunity to frame town!csf in a scummy light"

the two people viewing csf in a scummy light here are frog and myself. ythan made no such attempt. agree with gamma here: "I feel like Ythan saw CSF’s play at that point as pressing others for reads rather than working on making her own so she opted to press CSF on it"

more frog vs csf

post 100

- asking csf for a reads list even though supposedly asking for opinions is scummy

post 108

- dislikes csf's small reads list, weakly applies pressure

post 110

- i don't even know here. csf didn't post on page one and therefore her question here is valid. how on earth would it be +scum? how on earth is posting a readslist with no justifications +town for ranger? this just feels like cheap theatre.

post 115

- frog vs csf

post 118

- frog vs csf, frog wavers on ythan

post 124

- links his own scum post as proof that ythan #62 is scummy??
frog reads:

1. enchant, weak town, for mech spec?
   
2. andree, weak town, for mech spec?

post 125

- frog reads:

1. ythan, scum
   
2. princess, scum
   
3. furtive, scum
   
4. ranger, town

no new reasons provided for these reads. asking ranger for reads on george, erinys, and gamma

post 142

- frog reads:

1. morning tweet, town
   
2. KT, town

no reasons provided.

post 145

-

"as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them."

frog is trying to feed people reasons to read him as town here. i do the same thing as scum.

no comment on the gamma comments other than frog reads: gamma, scum

"This is the kind of overreaction I think can be scum indicative."

frog questioned erinys's identity with his gimmick comment earlier, hence the negative reaction. this should be obvious.

"I noticed that you went straight to attacking my reasoning rather than questioning whether or not it was scum motivated."

so people shouldn't challenge flawed reasoning? excuse me?

(directed to csf)

"I think it's somewhat likely that I overreacted because you've read me right quickly in the past. I was thinking about it and I'm no longer convinced that there's a scum motivation for you to play this way. I'm not sure how defined your playstyle is as scum but I'm picturing you as more pockety and under the radar when you're scum. I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

this is the end of frog vs csf.

i don't understand and am not remotely convinced by his reasoning to drop the scum!scf case.

literal omgus response to mcmenno for voting him

post 147

- no comment

post 149

- the ol' 62-124 ythan accusation. no comment here other than as previously stated i think this is not indicative of ythan's alignment either way. indicative of frog's because he keeps pushing this as scumtell gospel? absolutely.

post 153

-

"I can literally bury Gamma with a case based purely on meta."

ok why don't you then.
backing up the bluster here with action would help frog achieve the quickhammer he supposedly wants, and yet he seems content with just casting aspersions.

no comment on the joke/serious tris bit

post 154

-

"I can quote from not one, not two, not three, but four separate scum games which each show Gamma is deep in her scum meta right now."

show us the games, mr frog.

post 156

- gloating, putting on a show of confidence

Basically I agree with Quiet Owl that Frog is acting weird. Borderline like a jester which makes me stumble for a moment but I think he's just scum trying to lead the game.

I'd like to point out confirmation bias ie KT is just saying the same thing they've been repeating all game, whereas kittens is pretending to be persuaded by Quiet Owl's post, hence KT reaction = apathetic townie and kittens = lying. This is also why I think antitown!kittens made the mistake they did, as it may have seemed like a good idea to pretend this way in theory but isn't working out how they thought it would. Now they are scum just stuck here called out in the thread throwing words around randomly hoping they hit the right note.

Okay and the reasons for Frogger are…?

post by post frog analysis: (22 out 126 posts read, taking a lunch break, sorry about the lack of readability formatting)

Spoiler:

post 69

- to be taken with salt, as intro posts ideally should be provocative in order to start readable discussion. HOWEVER, the reads here are contradictory and garbage.
frog reads:

1. tris scum, for "awkward looking questions" - garbage take
   
2. ythan scum, specifically for asking someone their opinion on another player - also a garbage take! seems like everyone in the thread is asking such questions, including frog himself.
   
3. erinys scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
4. lycanfire scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
5. furtive, csf and gamma town, meta handwaving

at this stage,

1. furtive has particpated in random voting, cracked jokes, and requested realtime interaction. why is furtive towny for this, but erinys and lycanfire are actively scummy? contradictions: 1
   
2. csf is asking questions but also giving reads. up until #85 i also pegged her as town.
   
3. gamma has done basically nothing at this point. how can you possibly read her as town at that point.

post 76

- backs off on tris when questioned, stands his ground on the ythan read. does not acknowledge this is contradictory. contradictions: 2

post 79

- backs off on lycan, stands ground on erinys. contradictions: 3

post 81

- interested in reasons to town read ythan

post 86

- picks up on csf's weird scummy feeling 85 post,

here begins the frog vs csf era

post 90

- meta discussion of csf

post 94

- frog vs csf fight fight fight fight
frog reads:

1. lycanfire, town, for "doubling down on questioning" so questioning is scum behaviour until the questioner tries applying pressure?
   
2. csf, scum, for questioning his flimsy initial reads.

post 97

- makes a :/ face at csf for voting erinys, who frog reads as scum

"viewing it from a PoV where scum!ythan sees an opportunity to frame town!csf in a scummy light"

the two people viewing csf in a scummy light here are frog and myself. ythan made no such attempt. agree with gamma here: "I feel like Ythan saw CSF’s play at that point as pressing others for reads rather than working on making her own so she opted to press CSF on it"

more frog vs csf

post 100

- asking csf for a reads list even though supposedly asking for opinions is scummy

post 108

- dislikes csf's small reads list, weakly applies pressure

post 110

- i don't even know here. csf didn't post on page one and therefore her question here is valid. how on earth would it be +scum? how on earth is posting a readslist with no justifications +town for ranger? this just feels like cheap theatre.

post 115

- frog vs csf

post 118

- frog vs csf, frog wavers on ythan

post 124

- links his own scum post as proof that ythan #62 is scummy??
frog reads:

1. enchant, weak town, for mech spec?
   
2. andree, weak town, for mech spec?

post 125

- frog reads:

1. ythan, scum
   
2. princess, scum
   
3. furtive, scum
   
4. ranger, town

no new reasons provided for these reads. asking ranger for reads on george, erinys, and gamma

post 142

- frog reads:

1. morning tweet, town
   
2. KT, town

no reasons provided.

post 145

-

"as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them."

frog is trying to feed people reasons to read him as town here. i do the same thing as scum.

no comment on the gamma comments other than frog reads: gamma, scum

"This is the kind of overreaction I think can be scum indicative."

frog questioned erinys's identity with his gimmick comment earlier, hence the negative reaction. this should be obvious.

"I noticed that you went straight to attacking my reasoning rather than questioning whether or not it was scum motivated."

so people shouldn't challenge flawed reasoning? excuse me?

(directed to csf)

"I think it's somewhat likely that I overreacted because you've read me right quickly in the past. I was thinking about it and I'm no longer convinced that there's a scum motivation for you to play this way. I'm not sure how defined your playstyle is as scum but I'm picturing you as more pockety and under the radar when you're scum. I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

this is the end of frog vs csf.

i don't understand and am not remotely convinced by his reasoning to drop the scum!scf case.

literal omgus response to mcmenno for voting him

post 147

- no comment

post 149

- the ol' 62-124 ythan accusation. no comment here other than as previously stated i think this is not indicative of ythan's alignment either way. indicative of frog's because he keeps pushing this as scumtell gospel? absolutely.

post 153

-

"I can literally bury Gamma with a case based purely on meta."

ok why don't you then.
backing up the bluster here with action would help frog achieve the quickhammer he supposedly wants, and yet he seems content with just casting aspersions.

no comment on the joke/serious tris bit

post 154

-

"I can quote from not one, not two, not three, but four separate scum games which each show Gamma is deep in her scum meta right now."

show us the games, mr frog.

post 156

- gloating, putting on a show of confidence

Basically I agree with Quiet Owl that Frog is acting weird. Borderline like a jester which makes me stumble for a moment but I think he's just scum trying to lead the game.

I am leaning more he just doesn’t like me as a player.

We butted heads hard last game we were in and I pushed scum BGC hard and he pushed scum Pooky hard.

It just really made sense to me because of what I know about past Xyzzy games.

What does this mean?

Xyzzy setups are frequently either bastard or mech complex if not both. They had a jester in one game and a scum recruiter role in another and I think you look like you’re trying to solve but ignoring things like Titus saying “mod confirmed” for example.

But if this game is anything like those other Xyzzy games I spectated, then it explains why I’m so confused so far in this game. I expect that will change once we get some flips.

What does this have to do with 906?

You seem very tunnelled and you’re ignoring really blatant things like Titus saying Imaginality was mod confirmed.

[kitten around]

I’m not “pretending” anything Frog, I think what QO is saying makes a lot of sense.

[kitten around]

You seem very tunnelled and you’re ignoring really blatant things like Titus saying Imaginality was mod confirmed.

Yeah you can scream and wail and gnash your teeth and it doesn't change the fact that you don't really find 906 convincing and you have no way to answer 1055 about how you're caught in the thread and didn't realize Quiet Owl wasn't talking about multiball in 906.

I realize that. I wasn’t just referring to 906. Where have I done any of those things? You’re not baiting me into a fight. But you’re welcome to try. lol

[kitten around]

Kittens go ahead and post a reads list whenever your ready.

I don’t have a full list yet but rn

my strongest town reads are on the mason claims, STD, MT.

I’m sorry I don’t have any more confident reads yet.

[kitten around]

Kittens go ahead and post a reads list whenever your ready.

I don’t have a full list yet but rn

my strongest town reads are on the mason claims, STD, MT.

I’m sorry I don’t have any more confident reads yet.

Yeah it makes it look like you haven't been solving. If you continue to expand with more reads from what you have here then that would be helpful at least.

I understand that but it’s not from a lack of trying. Some games I don’t have reads until we get flips or as late as d3, so none of that makes me scum here.

[kitten around]

I wonder where Ythan is?

currently the Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, and Ythan slots are waiting for replacements

Not to be that guy, but does anyone TR these slots?

Two of them are no posters, there’s nothing to read. Ythan Idk, she sounded really tilted but I have no experience playing with her, so I agree with CSF that it would be wise to wait for a replacement.

[kitten around]

gamma I also like doctor who, I think it's a good show

Thanks for this ig
I’m just a little frustrated that you and Ranger are circlejerking rn, it really kills my faith in anything of value happening this game.

I just replaced in, gamma. give me time <3

I think this looks tvt to me. I also believe Titus’ mason claim and I don’t think she’d likely use the phrase “mod confirmed” if scum - especially how much she’s insisting on it.

[kitten around]

I don't want and apple macbook, I already have meat

Then no MacBook for you

that's fine, I 've already expressed my lack of interest in an apple macbook

What does any of this have to do with the game? xD

[kitten around]

gamma I also like doctor who, I think it's a good show

Thanks for this ig
I’m just a little frustrated that you and Ranger are circlejerking rn, it really kills my faith in anything of value happening this game.

I just replaced in, gamma. give me time <3

I think this looks tvt to me. I also believe Titus’ mason claim and I don’t think she’d likely use the phrase “mod confirmed” if scum - especially how much she’s insisting on it.

Well, of course she'd insist on it, if she dropped the claim she'd be a liar. The mod confirmed thing is the important part and even then it's hard to judge how important it really actually is, in this one's opinion? It doesn't really put a fakeclaim outside of the realm of possibility. In general taking Titus's claim at face value SEEMS fine and dandy but the circumstances around it always put this one off of believing it.

Well it’s likely resolvable anyway sooner or later.

[kitten around]

gamma I also like doctor who, I think it's a good show

Thanks for this ig
I’m just a little frustrated that you and Ranger are circlejerking rn, it really kills my faith in anything of value happening this game.

I just replaced in, gamma. give me time <3

I think this looks tvt to me. I also believe Titus’ mason claim and I don’t think she’d likely use the phrase “mod confirmed” if scum - especially how much she’s insisting on it.

Well, of course she'd insist on it, if she dropped the claim she'd be a liar. The mod confirmed thing is the important part and even then it's hard to judge how important it really actually is, in this one's opinion? It doesn't really put a fakeclaim outside of the realm of possibility. In general taking Titus's claim at face value SEEMS fine and dandy but the circumstances around it always put this one off of believing it.

Titus exaggerates either way. What’s odd is that Titus and imaginality weren’t killed.

Makes me think socially that Titus/imagine/Ranger are all good

Mechanically though I have to doubt.

Why would imaginality be killed over Titus?

[kitten around]

That.

I want to elim someone dodging the game if we can.

I think majority of posters are town. Can someone check activity? I am on my phone on one of the few breaks I will have.

Gimli 21
McMenno 19
UltimateGamer 12
andrée 11
GeorgeBailey 10
Not_Mafia 9
imaginality 7
Prince of Paterson 6
Korina 5

Korina’s a co-mod dude.

[kitten around]

gamma I also like doctor who, I think it's a good show

Thanks for this ig
I’m just a little frustrated that you and Ranger are circlejerking rn, it really kills my faith in anything of value happening this game.

I just replaced in, gamma. give me time <3

I think this looks tvt to me. I also believe Titus’ mason claim and I don’t think she’d likely use the phrase “mod confirmed” if scum - especially how much she’s insisting on it.

Well, of course she'd insist on it, if she dropped the claim she'd be a liar. The mod confirmed thing is the important part and even then it's hard to judge how important it really actually is, in this one's opinion? It doesn't really put a fakeclaim outside of the realm of possibility. In general taking Titus's claim at face value SEEMS fine and dandy but the circumstances around it always put this one off of believing it.

Titus exaggerates either way. What’s odd is that Titus and imaginality weren’t killed.

Makes me think socially that Titus/imagine/Ranger are all good

Mechanically though I have to doubt.

Why would imaginality be killed over Titus?

Confusion?

Not sure why you’re asking that?

I can think of reasons if Titus + imagine are town but I am not in the interest of that in a game like this. If scum kill there that’s their problem not mine.

Because Titus has been the townier of the two, so you would think it probably would make more sense for scum to kill her before Imaginality. wouldn’t you?

[kitten around]

I think this looks tvt to me. I also believe Titus’ mason claim and I don’t think she’d likely use the phrase “mod confirmed” if scum - especially how much she’s insisting on it.

"mod confirmed" is just as easy to lie about as any other fakeclaim. This makes no sense. Why have multiple people said this?

Because if imaginality flips scum, I die too.

I don’t understand, I thought you said he was mod confirmed to be town?

[kitten around]

I don’t quite understand exactly what’s happening in the Titus/KT/Elements meat/fruit/smorgasbord thing but I believe Kitty’s claim because he’s being so specific and what his role does and doesn’t do.

[kitten around]

CSF probably just wrong, one of Prince/Math scum.

[kitten around]

CSF probably just wrong, one of Prince/Math scum.

Whichever one is scum here definitely doesn’t want a 1v1 with me but I’ll more than happily engage with it to take out scum. Try me.

[kitten around]

mod note: removed an embedded YouTube video at kitten around's request.

This is not any kind of reference to Kitty Tacky just to be clear.

[kitten around]

I probably should have found a different video or even gif. Extreme apologies for any offensive content. Please don’t ban me. :/

[kitten around]

@mod, please remove the video inside the spoiler tags in 1691 and really sorry. I should have probably watched it first but I found it under YouTube Kids. :/

Should have posted this one instead.

[kitten around]

I’m so far liking Gimli slot, the masons and Gamma. Sorry I know I’ve been pretty useless so far. But I’m sure once we get a scumflip that will change.

[kitten around]

McMenno vote on me is survivalistic. Hmmmm . . . lol

[kitten around]

CSF probably just wrong, one of Prince/Math scum.

CSF probably just wrong, one of Prince/Math scum.

Whichever one is scum here definitely doesn’t want a 1v1 with me but I’ll more than happily engage with it to take out scum. Try me.

Why is one of Prince/Math scum? Do you think you've been town enough such that they shouldn't be voting you?

Also I think they're both town.

Let’s hope you’re about that.

[kitten around]

I think you’re lycan making things up. When did I ever do anything like that? I’m sorry I haven’t been feeling particularly well but that doesn’t

m

ake m

e

scu

m

.

CSF and ANYONE for that matter, Please explain to me why I’m scum?

Gimli, why aren’t you thinking for yourself? Was I wrong to believe in the mason claim and is that why I’m being wrongly scumread here? I am town and will prove it but that’s not up to me unfortunately.

[kitten around]

At the risk of sounding like Gamma Emerald sounding out every obvious role subtlety

Somebody (probably Ranger just by post volume) said they had a theory about Titus' role wording. The theory is that Titus may be a neighbour with alignment confirmation is because there's potential for alignment changes in this game right? Otherwise, calling someone a mason is very bastard if they could be converted (the nice bastard way of handling this would have any alignment changes fail on a mason IMO).

Also these roles are comedy gold. Does Xyzzy ever create really shitty town roles?

Gamma hardtown read me and so should CSF because I did obvtown it in the hood. Yes I’m in that now locked neighborhood. The mod thought I was trolling when I asked them why it was locked. lol

[kitten around]

What did you do in the hood that I should be townreading?

I don’t want to out people, they can defend me if they so choose.

And I don’t see why any of the examples you gave are ai in the slightest? What exactly is your issue with anything I said? I totally stand by what I said and won’t change anything to avoid a mislim.

I actually am starting to have doubts on you but scum traditionally are usually not the ones who start wagons but the opportunistic ones that sheep and I think one of Prince, McMenno, Lycan is scum on my wagon and I’m not going down without a fight and just allow the mislim to happen, I’d rather vote one of them over QO because I’m not convinced they’re scum.

If you seriously don’t think one of those three are scum, then I have some land in the dessert you might be interested in buying. lol

[kitten around]

I'm scumreading you for reasons outlined below:

Spoiler:

New reads: I think KittyTacky, UltimateGamer (Ythan), and Gimli (Vaxkiller) are town. Kitten around is scum.

Wanna elaborate a bit on the Kitten scumread?

The reasoning behind their reads feels kind of superficial - 1425 explains one example

When they engage the thread, they're asking a lot of surface-level questions 1311, 1319, 1435. Asking questions is okay, but I think they're doing it an awful lot relative to their other contributions.

Read their ISO - can you tell who they think is scum? It's hard to tell, because they're not pushing or making waves, but instead are just flying under the radar.

What do y'all think of kitten around?

I ISO'd them and could be scum, playing very safe in general, but I couldn't find any specific post or a general atittude that feels scummy

That's a pretty accurate description yeah. In general, I think scum tend to fit this profile more often than not: not doing anything wildly strange to stand out, but not pushing the game forward either.

What do y'all think of kitten around?

I ISO'd them and could be scum, playing very safe in general, but I couldn't find any specific post or a general atittude that feels scummy

That's a pretty accurate description yeah. In general, I think scum tend to fit this profile more often than not: not doing anything wildly strange to stand out, but not pushing the game forward either.

Haven't played with kitten around so I'm not sure whether they're usually like this, but based on their ISO I'd put them in the low end of null. What do you think of Lycanfire and Paterson? I have them all sort of null

kitten around more active in this game as town: viewtopic.php?t=90036&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

They exhibited a certain zeal for scumhunting that I do not see here.

Lycanfire I had as town yesterday but need to hear from him more today. Paterson feels okay so far but also need more.

Read their ISO - can you tell who they think is scum? It's hard to tell, because they're not pushing or making waves, but instead are just flying under the radar.

I feel this is overly harsh. Nearly every post, kitten around has made relevant posts about topical reads. 345, 627, 834, 998, 1002, 1074, 1296, 1688, 1689, 1694, have reads.

617, 618, 624, 625, 627, 833, 1002, 1017, 1023, 1034, 1057, 1058, 1064, 1097, 1556, have relevant commentary.

That's 23 / 39 of her posts. She feels like she's contributed plenty.

Of course she has reads. Even scum are going to have reads to fake contribution.

But she has like a handful of townreads, and that's it.

She's commenting on things but doesn't feel emotionally invested in the discussion and isn't getting into the thick of it.

kitten around more active in this game as town: viewtopic.php?t=90036&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

So I read that iso and I don't think it's actually different from here. That was an entire game, where kitten around replaced in during a time there was also plenty of content. Here kitten around has been playing from the beginning and the game isn't remotely close to over. She made 40 posts on that game's D2 as a replacement who had 56 pages' worth of content to read. That's comparable to her rate here imo.

In that game, she was only in the game for 2 real-life days before Day 2 ended. That's a lot of posting...

But to add onto that, you say things like 1688 with no follow up read on either Math or Prince, so your solving just looks really superficial.

That last part I actually understand but you’d be very wrong about that. I can’t explain my reasoning yet, just trust I’m not an idiot or scum here, just because I haven’t done a better job of explaining it. I realize I haven’t really done much in the main thread to obvtown yet but the fact that it hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t make me scum. I think you’re posting in general looks good as does Gimli’s but let’s face facts, I’m a really easy mislim and after my flip if it happens, you need to look at those three slots please? I obviously don’t want to be mislimmed but what really would be infuriating is if you don’t take a look at those three after I flip. If my mislim is inevitable, I at least don’t want to die in vain.

[kitten around]

This is awesome. I’m basically getting run up because I apparently had an unpopular reaad but what seriously astounds me is that I keep being dismissed for saying what practically every fibre of my being is screaming: that there 100% is scum on my wagon. I’m not wrong but it’s insane that I’m getting scumread for speaking the truth. How aren’t people seeing that I’m ridiculously easy mislimbait? Meanwhile people voting me apparently are willing to give the people who piled on to Frog, immunity or something. I didn’t vote Frog, you’d think that should account for something but never underestimate deep wolves and dumb town. Neither ever disappoints and we will probably lose because people are so stupidly blind to that.

I’m going to look at the Frog wagon and hopefully I can prove that my wagon has probable scum on it and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their brains rewired.

[kitten around]

votecount 2.03

didn't ask + don't care + l + ratio + touch grass

4 players voting for imaginality (Prince of Paterson, UltimateGamer, HighPrincessErinys, Ranger)
4 players voting for McMenno (Titus, Elements, furtiveglance, imaginality)
3 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia, MathBlade)
1 player voting for Titus (Enchant)
1 player voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever)

7 players not voting (McMenno, KittyTacky, Lycanfire, Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, Gimli, kitten around)

with 20 votes, it takes 11 to eliminate.

mod notes: Gamma Emerald has requested to be replaced.

votecount 2.04

my roommate and I finished the anime Bochhi the Rock tonight. it's pretty good. it's one of those shows where all the characters are just kinda generically cute with similar facial structures, but hey, sometimes that's just what you're gonna get watching an anime. speaking of, I joined the #anime slack channel in my new job today. we'll see if there are any exciting developments there!

4 players voting for McMenno (Elements, furtiveglance, imaginality, Titus)
3 players voting for imaginality (Prince of Paterson, UltimateGamer, Ranger)
2 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia)
1 player voting for Titus (KittyTacky)
1 player voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever)
1 player voting for HighPrincessErinys (Gimli)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Enchant)

7 players not voting (McMenno, Lycanfire, Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, kitten around, MathBlade, HighPrincessErinys)

with 20 votes, it takes 11 to eliminate.

mod notes:

votecount 2.05

When he died (On a dark and stormy night)
A nearby shed caught fire (It simply caught alight)
And when they cleared the charred wood from the ground
Inside they found a painting of a clown (A creepy painting of a clown)
He'd painted it when he was just a child
But scrawled upon the back was exactly when he died

4 players voting for McMenno (furtiveglance, imaginality, Titus, HighPrincessErinys)
3 players voting for kitten around (Cat Scratch Fever, MathBlade, Prince of Paterson)
2 players voting for imaginality (UltimateGamer, Ranger)
2 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia)
1 player voting for Enchant (Elements)
1 player voting for Titus (KittyTacky)
1 player voting for Cat Scratch Fever (Enchant)
1 player voting for HighPrincessErinys (Gimli)

5 players not voting (McMenno, Lycanfire, Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, kitten around)

with 20 votes, it takes 11 to eliminate.

mod notes:

Just look at these VCs. People weren’t even voting me and suddenly I became a compromise wqgon, Why isn’t anyone using three braincells and realizing something very suspicious happened here?

[kitten around]

Btw i am also powerful town role. Please all protectives on me.

No proofs.

while my read on Enchant is both based and based on similarity to their scumgame in TfT.

I knew you were here and only protectives with multitargetting can be on you. *ghosts away*

I'll break my silence to say I am a TPR with big swing for Town and if a rolestopper is available then I request they visit me tonight because it is important that I get my shots off at night. I feel okay soft claiming because:

1) it's immediately obvious that I am a TPR due to how I am approaching the game, especially to scum, therefore
2) scum may opt to roleblock me if available, in order to waste more of town's time tinfoiling my slot
3) I have finally identified a solid N1 target for my ability, and a roleblocker may not have realized that I require their assistance
4) While I was away I created a new list of D1 candidates for D1 lim (who I am suggesting because my impression is that guidance is required on slots who actually make sense to vote D1:)

Furtive/kittens/George/Enchant

George, furtive, and kittens are all scummy based on simple tells which are easy to spot, while my read on Enchant is both based and based on similarity to their scumgame in TfT. Quiet Owl and MathBlade I swapped out because they are generating more associative tells with other players, commenting on a wider variety of things and in my experience I don't think they are as likely to flip scum as Enchant or George are.

I'm still intending to ghost the thread until Friday night, and after that, I may ghost the thread again for a couple days. Unless anything important happens then I'll mainly just be posting a reads list and maybe my meta case on Gamma. I'm somewhat apathetic who gets voted out as long as it's one of those four. I'd rather other people discuss and choose so the discussion can be read D2. Opportunity to policy lim Mathblade revoked, and I'm switching my vote to furtive because I have a slight preference for that slot over the others:

VOTE: furtiveglance

I'll break my silence to say I am a TPR with big swing for Town and if a rolestopper is available then I request they visit me tonight because it is important that I get my shots off at night. I feel okay soft claiming because:

1) it's immediately obvious that I am a TPR due to how I am approaching the game, especially to scum, therefore
2) scum may opt to roleblock me if available, in order to waste more of town's time tinfoiling my slot
3) I have finally identified a solid N1 target for my ability, and a roleblocker may not have realized that I require their assistance
4) While I was away I created a new list of D1 candidates for D1 lim (who I am suggesting because my impression is that guidance is required on slots who actually make sense to vote D1:)

Furtive/kittens/George/Enchant

George, furtive, and kittens are all scummy based on simple tells which are easy to spot, while my read on Enchant is both based and based on similarity to their scumgame in TfT. Quiet Owl and MathBlade I swapped out because they are generating more associative tells with other players, commenting on a wider variety of things and in my experience I don't think they are as likely to flip scum as Enchant or George are.

I'm still intending to ghost the thread until Friday night, and after that, I may ghost the thread again for a couple days. Unless anything important happens then I'll mainly just be posting a reads list and maybe my meta case on Gamma. I'm somewhat apathetic who gets voted out as long as it's one of those four. I'd rather other people discuss and choose so the discussion can be read D2. Opportunity to policy lim Mathblade revoked, and I'm switching my vote to furtive because I have a slight preference for that slot over the others:

VOTE: furtiveglance

VOTE: Frog

.............................................
yes i too am most powerful wizard i am very trustworthy yes yes.
the above is sarcasm.

either this ends the game, or this ends the day and we have a 50/50 chance of catching scum. i am tired and in a gambling mood. VOTE: Frogsterking

NOTE THAT FROG IS AT E-2 NOW

These votes happened right after Frog claimed tpr.

[kitten around]

votecount 1.14

rolling around at the speed of sound

12 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality, Titus, furtiveglance, Lycanfire, Elements, Enchant, Quiet Owl, Not_Mafia, Gamma Emerald)
3 players voting for Ythan (Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet, HighPrincessErinys)
2 players voting for furtiveglance (Cat Scratch Fever, Frogsterking)
1 player voting for Ranger (GeorgeBailey)
1 player voting for Quiet Owl (Ranger)

4 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, MathBlade)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

mod notes: night 1 will be extended until replacements can be found for Vaxkiller and Tapiocaphobe. UltimateGamer replaces Ythan.

Generally the smart thing to do is to look at the wagons but I lost confidence in people being smart here.

Both Lycan and McMenno are on both bad wagons.

[kitten around]

VOTE: Lycan

[kitten around]

VOTE: Ythan
I don’t really townread her like I did before, in fact she feels similar to one of her scum games rn

is gamma still playing? I want to know of gamma and whoever else has meta with ythan if her d1 matches her scumgame.

Gamma was in the hood and I thought she looked townier there but I didn’t want to out the hood at that time because my Gamma townread was based on posts she made in the hood but I would have had she been in actual danger and CSF knows that too and is still voting me.

[kitten around]

Gimli, why aren’t you thinking for yourself? Was I wrong to believe in the mason claim and is that why I’m being wrongly scumread here? I am town and will prove it but that’s not up to me unfortunately.

I think this is multiball, and as a result I'm not capable of scumhunting like a normal game, which is why I'm trying to weigh in the thoughts of other people that I think are towny. just trying to help, you know. but I am thinking for myself. you looked much much townier in that other game people linked here, which is why yesterday I voted you. today I'm uninterested in flipping you, but I'm not really sure where to go.

That’s totally fair. I was a replacement slot and GE’s specifically and we had a scumflip the first day I replaced in, so that definitely helped me with reads on the following day but in this case I’m really trying but beyond looking at the Frog and my wagons and a lot more people, this game really isn’t comparable to that one. I’m terrible at larges and often have trouble making reads before a scumflip. For some reason, that’s not usually a problem when the playerlist is smaller.

[kitten around]

she looks pretty towny here as well IMO. what do you think of ythan/UG, kitten?

I don’t have much familiarity with either player but I think AtEing is nia for Ythan.

[kitten around]

Ok. I feel Ultimate is lock scum. I'm too tired and have too much driving to really hard case them. However, I do feel their ISO is either pocketing but most likely partners with kitten.

1887 was so bad it stopped my drunken wagon analysis. Considering that UltimateGamer ignored a bazooka, it's time to explode that mortar honey.

UltimateGamer talks to QuietOwl as if QuietOwl is exclusively town, but they're voting for QuietOwl. UltimateGamer has pingponged so often without a reason, you'd think that ball was in a wind turbine. The fact that ball doesn't even bounce to QuietOwl being scum ain't usually how people talk to each other.

Then there's UltimateGamer reaction to kitten around. UltimateGamer's first mention of kitten was that he was ok with the kitten wagon. Yet, as the kitten wagon gains steam, he defends it with nebulous reasoning and says we need a lim.....so he goes for a random ass wagon on a lurker....

If his lurker wagon went through, it'd have to go faster than McMenno's. UltimateGamer objected because it went too fast.



UltimateGamer has one agenda. Saving Kitten but not having it be an albatross on his neck.

VOTE: kitten around

I know I just cased UltimateGamer. That's who I want dead, but I don't think I'm getting that so I'll settle.

#Don'tIgnoreBazookas
#DrunkTitusWatchesTheCircle

If you think UG is scum and may be pocketing me, why are you voting me?

[kitten around]

VOTE: McMenno

I know this won’t happen but it should.

[kitten around]

This is awesome. I’m basically getting run up because I apparently had an unpopular reaad

Clarify which unpopular read of yours is the reason why you're getting run up, please.

I’m assuming it’s either because I defended QA or because I misunderstood Titus’ claim but I know at least one person posited me as buddies with them and Titus is voting me for apparently being a UG buddy now? lol. I’m extremely fascinated how people are even coming up with these wild takes.

[kitten around]

This is awesome. I’m basically getting run up because I apparently had an unpopular reaad

Clarify which unpopular read of yours is the reason why you're getting run up, please.

I’m assuming it’s either because I defended QA or because I misunderstood Titus’ claim but I know at least one person posited me as buddies with them and Titus is voting me for apparently being a UG buddy now? lol. I’m extremely fascinated how people are even coming up with these wild takes.

Do you have any posts you can quote that explain the origin of your belief that the primary reason for you getting run up was that you had an unpopular read? Where did this idea come from? My understanding of the primary reason for why you were getting run up was that you weren't scumhunting and didn't have a town mindset and it had nothing to do with any unpopular reads.

I would like to know what made you believe otherwise, because for someone who believes strongly that there is scum pushing your wagon, it doesn't feel like you have made any real attempts to even understand why people are voting you. That to me seems like it would be a prerequisite to determining who is pushing you maliciously.

Treating all of the suspicion as an undifferentiated block, being unsure who has what reasons, and being unsure what the reasons even are, seems more likely to be a result of scum knowing that the push is all coming from town. In the eyes of the mafia, town are all the same and the details of the reasons don't matter because the result is correct. Believing strongly that there is scum on the wagon but still treating the people on the wagon as interchangeable is at best negligent from town, but much more likely to be a result of viewing the game from a scum perspective.

As I already told to Gimli, fair enough but I didn’t have any confident scumreads but now I do and it thinks it’s extremely naive to think there’s not at least one scum voting me and rn, McMenno is my best guess for that.

[kitten around]

I want a tldr

I'm realising I don't myself know the full claims. What was that meat thing? I asked but no one answered

On the meat thing, and correct me if it's wrong, isn't it that Math was a multitasking FV one-shot MeatVendor (and also VegetableVendor) that vended meat to Titus, but instead the meat got to Elements so we suspect a driver of some sort?

I’m still really confused about all that.

[kitten around]

Gonna give y’all a little tip: you might not want to kill me.

And I vaguely remember there being another post where she reiterated, but I can't find it.

Now, this post puts me in a very bad position. Mostly because I don't really understand why she made it; I've still not caught up with the hood PT, but my hopes of finding enligthment there are slim. I will however say that I fully believe that there is some nasty hidden elements to my role, I have strong reasons to, and I suspect my predecessor did too. In any case, just in case someone was still ruminating on Gamma's bizarre soft there, the word elimination (nor equivalents thereof) does not appear anywhere in my PM, and the thing that my role can trigger will trigger on my death however that will be.

So you’re claiming some negative utility after death?

[kitten around]

This one currently refuses to vote on imaginality or Titus but it's willing to do Owl.

VOTE: Quiet Owl

In the meanwhile, I want Ranger's yoga instructor. Arguing an unalive bomber is a serial killer is so stretching Ranger might as well be Mrs. Fantastic.

I am not arguing that's a real power a serial killer has.

I'm arguing that a similar power is something a serial killer would have at their disposal, and the self-bomber would be a town fakeclaim version of it.

It guesses...? But like, it feels like a really really weird claim to make as SK. Being alive after N4 would seriously jeopardize both her own survival and the survival of her hypothetical SK duo partner imaginality. It's a house of cards-level gambit where if anything goes wrong before N4, they're both as good as dead, and if she lives come D5, there will be a very large amount of scrutiny against her and imaginality that cannot easily be brushed off as "Oh yeah, I must've been doc'd." without literally outing a doctor which could be Pretty Bad depending on the situation. It's just way too risky for any kind of scum duo to do. Hell, it's risky even as town because mafia could have who knows what tools to frame her for being suspiciously alive and then gets dogpiled. Of course you can call this something along the lines of arguing "too scum to be scum" but in general this one is rather confident that this play is much more town than it is scum.

Why is it so scummy for a Self-oof Bomber to not use their power? Nobody answered me last time I pointed that out. Unless scum gets outed that day it's -town to use it.

Titus has said she's pretty much going for it regardless, so of course the expectation is that she'll, true to her word, blow someone up and explode in turn. If she survives, that raises questions of how and why. It's not about if using or not using it is scummy.

Alright, I’m really confused then. Bianco has a negative ability after death and Titus is an sb?

[kitten around]

As I already told to Gimli, fair enough but I didn’t have any confident scumreads but now I do and it thinks it’s extremely naive to think there’s not at least one scum voting me and rn, McMenno is my best guess for that.

Reasoning behind McMenno? I don't think believing that there is at least one scum voting you qualifies as a confident scumread because again, it doesn't appear that you have read or understood the reasons why people are voting you. In order to determine who is scum voting you, it would be prudent of you to investigate on that subject. Your lack of interest in doing so is suspicious to me.

Fine but I bet the game I’m not wrong.

[kitten around]

Hard to argue against a Not_Mafia wagon, but it's a redux of the McMenno wagon. Feels like random guessing

Have you read their posts? I don’t understand how you’re even comparing the two?

McMenno I mean.

[kitten around]

I think in a game this large there are inevitably a few players matching this description. I'm surprised that CSF used this same logic to push kitten around

and

to defend both McMenno and Not_Mafia today. What's the difference between them?

The difference between KA & McMenno/Not_Mafia is that KA likes playing town and is active as town, but McMenno/Not_Mafia have a repeated pattern of not doing anything as either alignment. Meta is the difference, basically.

I knew that about N_M but not McMenno. Is there a game you have in mind or shall I go most recent?

The difference for me is that although KA started off more passive, they've become more involved after being dragged into things

They barely play mafia anymore

This is probably their best town game that I could find, but keep in mind that it's an invitational: viewtopic.php?t=89320&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Town but this setup was very unusual: viewtopic.php?t=78083&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Scum: viewtopic.php?t=77420&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This isn’t cool of you. You shouldn’t out alts. if this was my site, there’d be a very serious rule against doing that. Especially when you already know my alt was involuntarily outed in that other game.

Btw, what you said about me isn’t true. Activity is never ai for me. All it means is that I haven’t really gotten into the game yet, which is actually on par for me with larges in general and complex mech games. Activity is especially nia for me early game. Late game. very different story.

[kitten around]

I think in a game this large there are inevitably a few players matching this description. I'm surprised that CSF used this same logic to push kitten around

and

to defend both McMenno and Not_Mafia today. What's the difference between them?

The difference between KA & McMenno/Not_Mafia is that KA likes playing town and is active as town, but McMenno/Not_Mafia have a repeated pattern of not doing anything as either alignment. Meta is the difference, basically.

I knew that about N_M but not McMenno. Is there a game you have in mind or shall I go most recent?

The difference for me is that although KA started off more passive, they've become more involved after being dragged into things

They barely play mafia anymore

This is probably their best town game that I could find, but keep in mind that it's an invitational: viewtopic.php?t=89320&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Town but this setup was very unusual: viewtopic.php?t=78083&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Scum: viewtopic.php?t=77420&f=56&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This isn’t cool of you. You shouldn’t out alts. if this was my site, there’d be a very serious rule against doing that. Especially when you already know my alt was involuntarily outed in that other game.

Btw, what you said about me isn’t true. Activity is never ai for me. All it means is that I haven’t really gotten into the game yet, which is actually on par for me with larges in general and complex mech games. Activity is especially nia for me early game. Late game. very different story.

Okay, just clicked on these links, now I feel really really dumb.

Sorry @CSF. Disregard. I was extremely upset at Junko for doing that in PYP. I should never have assumed that about you.

[kitten around]

IDK how to weigh in on mcmenno other than it needs death and if I had a dayvig I'd kill it

I bet someone does currently have a day vig O_O

And I agree with Gimli, I would probably use it on either McMenno or possibly on a secret scumread I’m waiting to hear a lot more from.

UG, Gimli, CSF, furtive, probably alltown I think. I hard townread Gamma because of the hood but I didn’t want to say anything at that time because I didn’t want to out the hood.

[kitten around]

KA: why didn't you want to out the hood with gamma?
bianco: how's KA in the hood? do you agree gamma was very towny there, as KA said?

I don’t think Gamma and some others didn’t want it outed but if Gamma had been in actual danger, I obviously would have but she wasn’t and I didn’t think that without the hood, I had valid reasons for that townread.

[kitten around]

Is really that the point you're contesting?

well also the fact that he comes off as manipulative using extremely charged language like repeatedly saying people ought to die, and having such read on me GtH is kind of an oof
and ive seen him misgender ppl a bunch

ill give thoughts on Ythanslot in a bit maybe

This isn’t cool, if you think you’re seeing any misgendering, you should be reporting that player instead of making those kind of comments.

[kitten around]

I strongly disagree on UltimateGamer. Let's talk in Spoilers as I don't think I am getting that elimination today.

I don’t think you are either and that’s a good thing because I don’t understand why you sr them? I didn’t have any opinion on Ythan but I think UG has been pretty townie so far.

[kitten around]

I'm scumleaning KA after ISOing, it's taking a lot of safe stances from the first day and their reads don't feel maleable like a towny. I haven't read the entirety of it but I can see why people want it dead.

Which reads in particular are you taking issues with? I do think it makes perfectly logical sense for scum to be voting me here, so I don’t see how that makes me scum.

[kitten around]

did frogster catch KA on day one and I didn't read it?

Wut

[kitten around]

You seem very tunnelled and you’re ignoring really blatant things like Titus saying Imaginality was mod confirmed.

Yeah you can scream and wail and gnash your teeth and it doesn't change the fact that you don't really find 906 convincing and you have no way to answer 1055 about how you're caught in the thread and didn't realize Quiet Owl wasn't talking about multiball in 906.

Frog has pushed many people for a lot of very silly reasons. I can provide examples if necessary.

[kitten around]

I think KA's insistence on bringing up the 'mod confirmed' bit on Titus' claim for several days isn't a good look because it's not a very important point (from a townie pov) and feels like the safest stance to have re: Titus. if you believe she is town then you have to believe her when she talks about anything being mod confirmed, and whatnot.

I don’t understand why? I’m generally terrible at mech, so I get confused on things like this all the time, so if any of that reads scummy to you, then I’m scum in every game that isn’t mountainous.

[kitten around]

Gimli, Titus is still voting me despite being suss on UG, so why do you think she’s townreading me? I don’t understand why she’s even voting me.

Titus I get that you hate 1920 but I took another look at it and don’t understand why you’re scumreading it?

[kitten around]

I think KA's insistence on bringing up the 'mod confirmed' bit on Titus' claim for several days isn't a good look because it's not a very important point (from a townie pov) and feels like the safest stance to have re: Titus. if you believe she is town then you have to believe her when she talks about anything being mod confirmed, and whatnot.

I don’t understand why? I’m generally terrible at mech, so I get confused on things like this all the time, so if any of that reads scummy to you, then I’m scum in every game that isn’t mountainous.

it's a good thought but it's scummy, the way you're constantly bringing it up in the thread, and you're not making many posts everyday, so it became a solo-take that you use to position yourself, when the game is large and there are a gazillion things to talk about.

the bit I'm quoting from frog is about how kitten strong townread of QO's MQ (that I agree with frog, didn't amount to anything substantial) is more likely coming from informed scum. since he died and flipped town.

got a massive headache now I'm back in a bit

Or it’s coming from someone who’s read a lot of Frog games and is actually decent at reading him. Sorry no, not going to defend myself for not having shitty reads.

[kitten around]

VOTE: kitten around

Really bad vote, you should be sheeping me here.

[kitten around]

I'm just going to let this go.

I don't townread KA but don't scumread them either. We need a flip, preferably on someone that has been wagoned for VCA. UltimateGamer would be the lim if game health and others solving were no object. For now, I'm okay with eliminating someone scum bend over backwards to save.

So please unvote me then and sheep me on McMenno. I’ve lost all confidence in Gimli now.

[kitten around]

kitten around is very likely flipping scum because there's little chance her defense of quiet owl on d1 to frogster came from town.

?? This doesn’t follow if you think QO is town?

kitten started to talk about quiet owl's multiball theory when she was supposed to be talking about quiet owl's MQ of frog, like kitten couldn't follow their own supposed reasons for townreading QO.

I think the defense of QO comes from informed scum with TMI that owl is town, and not necessarily a SvS world.

Are you bonkers?


I understand now why Gamma and Ythan got so fed up with this playerlist.

[kitten around]

That’s right Gimli you absolute genius. Well congrats, you just described what happens to me when I read a book. I must br scum every waking minute then according to you because I do it all the time in real life.

[kitten around]

and I wasn't here when ythan left neither think it was my fault for gamma leaving since I wasn't even here on d1

Well want to take a wild guess why they left?

[kitten around]

I don't think we should be talking about why they left, it has nothing to do with this

but anyway sorry I fed you up I guess

Frog was pushing both of them.

[kitten around]

I can see a KA+QO team I just would rather get who

scum

don’t want.

who is the word "scum" referring to in this sentence?

Both of them.

KA+QO scum together
KA defended QO.
Therefore KA is an acceptable loss to that team.

Scum doesn’t want QO dead so let’s elim QO.

VOTE: Mathblade

That’s my secret scumread. Kill McMenno after I flip, kthanx

Oh and Titus is terrible at reading him but I’m actually not.

[kitten around]

Not_Mafia died! they were a naive cop.

with no way for the town to prevent a mafia win, the mafia (kitten around, Summon The Phoenix, and Ranger) have won the game. as the winner of the largest number of dead thread lovers mafia games, Elements has also won the game.

later on, I'll be asking if you have any posts you made in private threads that you want redacted (if you had access to a private threads removed and aren't sure whether there are any you want removed, PM me). I'll release all the private threads after that process.

Yay we won, congrats Ranger, furtive, LLD. Sorry I let you all down. I did try my best.

Thanks for modding Xyzzy, Korina.

[kitten around]

Did I suck as much as I think I do?

I wouldn't be too harsh on yourself.

The dead had all the information. That gives them biases.

The dead were also dead largely because their deaths were more advantageous. You almost were among them. Almost dead means you did well enough.

You were working as the uninformed. You did not know the mechanic behind the scum, which influenced play across the game. You did not know where the message came from or if it was even real. You did not know where your double-vote came from. You had no way to even guess.

There's certainly ways you could have seen the furtive slot as scum without the information, but without the lens of information, you were unlikely to conclude furtiveglance was the most probable scum. furtive had interactions from an uninformed perspective appearing unlikely as partnered, in key areas such as attacking one flipped scum (McMenno). Knowing the scum mechanics you'd understand why, but since you couldn't gain that info, it appeared unaligned with flipped scum.

Not_Mafia made key misplays on both D1 and D3, with the D3 play directly tying him to flipped scum (me). From an uninformed perspective, these were suspect. Knowing the setup, it was clear he was given it while disloyal, but while you

could

have concluded this, it wasn't

proven

.

We also got amazingly lucky with all of the right players dying at the most opportune time.