i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Quiet Owl]

i do NOT like the look of cat scratch fever. post 85 reminds me of me when i'm playing scum, false bravado to try and look towny.

frog's initial post is weird and wishywashy but i don't think he's working with cat scratch. looks more like town gambling on being able to expose scum by doing something silly.

my theories at the moment:
- frog is town, cat scratch is scum
- this is a multiball setup, and they're both scum

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

[Quiet Owl]

Lol

How good are you at feigning full solving the game as scum, as well as exerting control over it?

Frog describing himself as gloating and solved from his point of view, and so on is kinda my impression of town!Frog. He's one of those players that has a read on everyone. But I don't know how well Frog emulates this sort of excitement for solving as scum

Not really, no. I just completed a scum game recently:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984&user_select[]=16233

Most of what I provide as scum is in the scum chat I think. For thread control in the past I focused on tinfoiling, bloating the thread with dumb discussions and then lurking out once I draw too much heat. I find it a bit overwhelming to actually attempt to imitate my town game as scum.

Realistic chance this is a brand of meta manipualtion. "No look guys THIS is how I play as scum. Therefore, I am NOT scum.". This one doesn't care for meta analysis but it just thought this was worth pointing out. Detailing ways you would've/could've did things as scum but didn't feels itself a smidge scummy in an abstract sense.

wh-
what

frog: "here's some evidence to back up my claims"
erinys: "HMM. PROVIDING EVIDENCE IS SUSPICIOUS."

???

[Quiet Owl]

Friend you are blinded by your love of frogs.

oh no
my greatest weakness

i will conduct a more proper evaluation, i think.

[Quiet Owl]

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

re-reading thread, this sheeping comment bothers me.

[Quiet Owl]

@owl

what is your impression of Morning Tweet and Lycanfire rn?

didn't see this earlier, sorry.

i'm inclined to think that tweet is town, mainly because she's questioning people but also giving reasons for questioning them instead of just going "OoOOoO but what if you were wrong??" she's also actively engaged with the game instead of coasting.

lycanfire is very focused on just casting doubt on everything and has about 2 posts of substance (403 and 404). this is typical of their playstyle as an arsonist in this game. viewtopic.php?p=10782486&user_select%5B ... #p10782486
could also be that they're not very invested in the game but at this point i think town!lycan would be putting more solid posts out there, based off viewtopic.php?p=10230168&user_select%5B ... #p10230168
considering the possibility of a lycan/catscratch team.

tl;dr: aw snap

VOTE: Lycanfire

[Quiet Owl]

I've read through and have vague town reads on most people which is fun. Quiet Owl and Ranger are my two biggest town reads atm.
Funny thing, I didn't like Andrée's entrance and was thinking of moving my vote there only to remember that's the slot I replaced into.
VOTE: vaxkillerVOTE: [v/]

i don't like this post.
my multiball theory should be setting alarm bells off everywhere. are you hoping that i'm scum and i'll help you thin the herd a bit before you turn on me?

[Quiet Owl]

(Only read up to page 18)

My point isn't "They're voting me so they're scummy" which would be lazy and omgussy. It's "with my slow posting and name confusion and umimpressive entry into this game I've given superficially good reasons for people to vote me, that's a wagon scum love to jump on because it means they don't have to bullshit therefore it's more likely scum are on me compared to if the main argument against me was bullshit"

actually i think i agree with this. imaginality has only five posts and it seems way too early for wagoning.

hold your darn horses, it's cross-examination time

[Quiet Owl]

I don’t really have good reasons to call imaginify town but I don’t think the reasons for the votes on him are that good either. Lazy/weak play is rather unimpressive as a reason since it feels like they just got off to a bad start that got capitalized on.
Aside from that a main focus is pushing a 1v1 of me vs. Frogsterking. I don’t really have an issue here except with you buying into that while having me all the way down in your reads. I don’t think you should be calling that a problem except if you think either a) me and Frog are both town or b) I would feel bold enough to go toe-to-toe with Frog as scum here and feel like I could come out relatively unscathed. Clearly you don’t believe a), so what about my play so far suggests b) to be true?
Lastly, the “disingenuous paragraph” may overgeneralize the votes but it captures a lot of what I feel like is wrong with the imaginify wagon. And I think the writing feels towny given how imprecise it is: scum would try to ensure clarity in that paragraph imo.

I guess the one thing that does stick out to me is the use of “noncommittal” as a thing people are calling their okay when that was used to refer to furtive iirc

THIS ^^^

we don't have a deadline. why are we rushing to eliminate someone when the case on them is this flimsy?

[Quiet Owl]

y'know what i think the imaginality wagon is downright suspicious.
VOTE: Ranger but also a reminder to future owl: remember cat scratch and lycanfire.

did a votecount: don't take it at face value, i've messed these up in the past.

5 players voting for imaginality (furtiveglance, Ranger, Lycanfire, tris, Elements, HighPrincessErinys)
4 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality)
3 players voting for Ranger (Titus, Gamma Emerald, Quiet Owl)
2 players voting for Elements (Save The Dragons, Cat Scratch Fever)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

6 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, Enchant, Morning Tweet, Frogsterking)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

[Quiet Owl]

PEdit:

y'know what i think the imaginality wagon is downright suspicious.
VOTE: Ranger but also a reminder to future owl: remember cat scratch and lycanfire.

Is there a reason that you believe scum were motivated to get involved with the imaginality wagon rather than white knight them or lurk out while town kills itself?

seems like an easy kill that not nearly enough people are finding suspicious.

here's a hypothetical. we will assume that imaginality is town, even though i have them at null, leaning iffy.

here are three possible plays that can happen.
- scum drives the imaginality wagon and just goes "oopsie daisies! why didn't any of you say anything.

you're

the suspicious ones for just agreeing blindly with me." when they flip town. pros: 2 dead town, 1 from nightkill, 1 from vote. cons: attracts suspicion but it could probably be deflected because no-one seems to be listening to me. perhaps it's just the christmas busyness, but stop dogpiling and consider other options for gods sake. we have time! don't squander it!
- scum lurks. this is a bad idea with this group of players, because if there's lurking scum sooner or later they're coming under scrutiny for fluffposting. pros: 2 dead town and delays scrutiny. cons: guarantees scrutiny.
- scum whiteknights imaginality. actually that's a good idea. stop giving them ideas. normally they'd get scrutinised for having "too much information", but the wagon here is so incredibly weak that it shouldn't be persuading anyone. pros: gains the trust of some of the town. cons: none actually

[Quiet Owl]

Based on what I've been taught about "wagonomics"

circus noises

agree with this. seriously doubt vca works on frog at the moment.

[Quiet Owl]

@Quiet Owl

if you're looking for a scum who wagoned imaginality, can I suggest you take a serious look at furtiveglance?

yeah i have them under suspicion. behold:

@furtive

what do you make of the current gamestate?

Quite chaotic. This is the largest game I've played in (from the start) and I think the usually underrated art of sheeping will be very important, otherwise Mafia could really run riot.

With this in mind,

VOTE: imaginality

re-reading thread, this sheeping comment bothers me.

[Quiet Owl]

@owl

what is your impression of Morning Tweet and Lycanfire rn?

didn't see this earlier, sorry.

i'm inclined to think that tweet is town, mainly because she's questioning people but also giving reasons for questioning them instead of just going "OoOOoO but what if you were wrong??" she's also actively engaged with the game instead of coasting.

lycanfire is very focused on just casting doubt on everything and has about 2 posts of substance (403 and 404). this is typical of their playstyle as an arsonist in this game. viewtopic.php?p=10782486&user_select%5B ... #p10782486
could also be that they're not very invested in the game but at this point i think town!lycan would be putting more solid posts out there, based off viewtopic.php?p=10230168&user_select%5B ... #p10230168
considering the possibility of a lycan/catscratch team.

tl;dr: aw snap

VOTE: Lycanfire

I'm sorry my owl I'm probably never gonna get that level of tryhardy again. I have medication that gives me the dopamine mafia used to give me when I was getting all mentally ill and solvey.

My main reason for playing in this game is because I'm bad at maintaining friendships and I'm lonely.

going to trust you on that for ethical reasons. puts you back at a null until i finish reading the thread

[Quiet Owl]

my theories at the moment:
- frog is town, cat scratch is scum
- this is a multiball setup, and they're both scum

I'm pretty sure now that this

is

a multiball setup, and I want to know whatever Quiet Owl knows

dear frog, the knowledge i have that you apparently do not is the signup post, and a less narrow perspective on things.

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No)

- yes. I have had many elements like these in past games.

[Quiet Owl]

It's mutual, but I'm also willing to engage with you about my reads if you want to try and seem interested

Alright, what's up furtive? Who are you willing to vote?

Maybe the tris replacement. But I really want to get you today, I feel like otherwise the whole gamestate will get clogged.

You have to convince me that the tris slot isn't townsided first. Why would you help town take down the tris slot? What do you think they are?

what, you'll selfvote if you're convinced that tris is scum? what on earth are you saying here

[Quiet Owl]

VOTECOUNT

6 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality, Titus, furtiveglance)
4 players voting for Ythan (Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet, Gamma Emerald, HighPrincessErinys)
4 players voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever, Frogsterking, Elements, Ranger)
1 players voting for furtiveglance (tris)
1 player voting for Ranger (Quiet Owl)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

the only reason i'm not switching my vote to frog right now is because i am well aware that i am being pressured. so i'm going to do the evaluation that i should have done ages ago, and then decide from there.

You have nothing to offer me Owl unless you're willing to help kill furtive.

what a transparent attempt at intimidation.

[Quiet Owl]

post by post frog analysis: (22 out 126 posts read, taking a lunch break, sorry about the lack of readability formatting)

Spoiler:

post 69

- to be taken with salt, as intro posts ideally should be provocative in order to start readable discussion. HOWEVER, the reads here are contradictory and garbage.
frog reads:

1. tris scum, for "awkward looking questions" - garbage take
   
2. ythan scum, specifically for asking someone their opinion on another player - also a garbage take! seems like everyone in the thread is asking such questions, including frog himself.
   
3. erinys scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
4. lycanfire scum, for participating in random voting - garbage take
   
5. furtive, csf and gamma town, meta handwaving

at this stage,

1. furtive has particpated in random voting, cracked jokes, and requested realtime interaction. why is furtive towny for this, but erinys and lycanfire are actively scummy? contradictions: 1
   
2. csf is asking questions but also giving reads. up until #85 i also pegged her as town.
   
3. gamma has done basically nothing at this point. how can you possibly read her as town at that point.

post 76

- backs off on tris when questioned, stands his ground on the ythan read. does not acknowledge this is contradictory. contradictions: 2

post 79

- backs off on lycan, stands ground on erinys. contradictions: 3

post 81

- interested in reasons to town read ythan

post 86

- picks up on csf's weird scummy feeling 85 post,

here begins the frog vs csf era

post 90

- meta discussion of csf

post 94

- frog vs csf fight fight fight fight
frog reads:

1. lycanfire, town, for "doubling down on questioning" so questioning is scum behaviour until the questioner tries applying pressure?
   
2. csf, scum, for questioning his flimsy initial reads.

post 97

- makes a :/ face at csf for voting erinys, who frog reads as scum

"viewing it from a PoV where scum!ythan sees an opportunity to frame town!csf in a scummy light"

the two people viewing csf in a scummy light here are frog and myself. ythan made no such attempt. agree with gamma here: "I feel like Ythan saw CSF’s play at that point as pressing others for reads rather than working on making her own so she opted to press CSF on it"

more frog vs csf

post 100

- asking csf for a reads list even though supposedly asking for opinions is scummy

post 108

- dislikes csf's small reads list, weakly applies pressure

post 110

- i don't even know here. csf didn't post on page one and therefore her question here is valid. how on earth would it be +scum? how on earth is posting a readslist with no justifications +town for ranger? this just feels like cheap theatre.

post 115

- frog vs csf

post 118

- frog vs csf, frog wavers on ythan

post 124

- links his own scum post as proof that ythan #62 is scummy??
frog reads:

1. enchant, weak town, for mech spec?
   
2. andree, weak town, for mech spec?

post 125

- frog reads:

1. ythan, scum
   
2. princess, scum
   
3. furtive, scum
   
4. ranger, town

no new reasons provided for these reads. asking ranger for reads on george, erinys, and gamma

post 142

- frog reads:

1. morning tweet, town
   
2. KT, town

no reasons provided.

post 145

-

"as scum I had a fantastic opportunity to bloat the thread with useless, horrible drama by dragging out a fight with tris over whether or not asking questions is AI for them."

frog is trying to feed people reasons to read him as town here. i do the same thing as scum.

no comment on the gamma comments other than frog reads: gamma, scum

"This is the kind of overreaction I think can be scum indicative."

frog questioned erinys's identity with his gimmick comment earlier, hence the negative reaction. this should be obvious.

"I noticed that you went straight to attacking my reasoning rather than questioning whether or not it was scum motivated."

so people shouldn't challenge flawed reasoning? excuse me?

(directed to csf)

"I think it's somewhat likely that I overreacted because you've read me right quickly in the past. I was thinking about it and I'm no longer convinced that there's a scum motivation for you to play this way. I'm not sure how defined your playstyle is as scum but I'm picturing you as more pockety and under the radar when you're scum. I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

this is the end of frog vs csf.

i don't understand and am not remotely convinced by his reasoning to drop the scum!scf case.

literal omgus response to mcmenno for voting him

post 147

- no comment

post 149

- the ol' 62-124 ythan accusation. no comment here other than as previously stated i think this is not indicative of ythan's alignment either way. indicative of frog's because he keeps pushing this as scumtell gospel? absolutely.

post 153

-

"I can literally bury Gamma with a case based purely on meta."

ok why don't you then.
backing up the bluster here with action would help frog achieve the quickhammer he supposedly wants, and yet he seems content with just casting aspersions.

no comment on the joke/serious tris bit

post 154

-

"I can quote from not one, not two, not three, but four separate scum games which each show Gamma is deep in her scum meta right now."

show us the games, mr frog.

post 156

- gloating, putting on a show of confidence

[Quiet Owl]

@Quiet Owl: this comment in frog's post 145 pings me as odd:

"I feel like our conflict may be motivated by paranoia which I think is +town for both of us."

I feel like a townie there would not be saying "+town for both of us" compared with "+town for you". It seems an unnatural way to phrase it and to me makes it feel like frog is more focused on guiding others to read him as town (as with the other comment you noted in the same post) rather than on trying to read others.

good point! i missed that.

[Quiet Owl]

In fact, I'm not sure which slot Math replaced, but if the menagerie of anti town roles in this game are desperate for a town slot to push through, I would consider helping you eliminate Math as policy since he already outted for no reason and has a history of being loose-lipped.

VOTE: MathBlade

Take it or leave it, scum/whatever/whatever/whatever else butts.

you votehop like your namesake. i read you as town playing very badly rather than scum at the moment, and therefore i suggest 1) getting some integrity 2) taking a bit longer to think on things instead of your gung-ho "shoot at everything and hope that something sticks" approach.

[Quiet Owl]

Why exactly do you think I'm playing very badly?

read #906, where i have detailed my utter confusion at your thought process. here's a link.
viewtopic.php?p=13592523#p13592523

[Quiet Owl]

Actually, Quiet Owl, are you scamper?

who or what is scamper?

[Quiet Owl]

Math pretending to be empathetic toward Titus is a good sign that Math is lying.

You're being an ass here. Back off.

[Quiet Owl]

I think that it’s really odd. Like why the jump to multiball. I don’t doubt the thought it’s more an oddity to solve.

i came looking for a bastard game that wouldn't let me solve things via setup speculation, therefore i am assuming there could be literally anything in this game. multiball seems pretty tame and a decent explanation for scummy players going at each other's throats in a way that doesn't seem like theatre.

[Quiet Owl]

i assume that a jester!frog here wins when dead, in which case the course of action here is probably to ignore him completely until we have reason to suspect that he's a different sort of scum?

mcmenno mentioned having a role that interferes with investigatives so i assume that if true that's a counter to someone else's role. would be a convenient way of resolving the frog conundrum.

[Quiet Owl]

i assume that a jester!frog here wins when dead, in which case the course of action here is probably to ignore him completely until we have reason to suspect that he's a different sort of scum?

mcmenno mentioned having a role that interferes with investigatives so i assume that if true that's a counter to someone else's role. would be a convenient way of resolving the frog conundrum.

Where did he say this?

oh like I have something in my role that interferers with investigative roles so don't target me with those please

[Quiet Owl]

I wonder where Ythan is?

currently the Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, and Ythan slots are waiting for replacements

[Quiet Owl]

dear santa,

as a late christmas gift, can i get frog muffling duct tape please

[Quiet Owl]

.............................................
yes i too am most powerful wizard i am very trustworthy yes yes.
the above is sarcasm.

either this ends the game, or this ends the day and we have a 50/50 chance of catching scum. i am tired and in a gambling mood. VOTE: Frogsterking

NOTE THAT FROG IS AT E-2 NOW

[Quiet Owl]

hmm.
anyone in a neighborhood know if there are any vanilla townies in this game at all?

[Quiet Owl]

hang on that question doesn't even make sense as neighbours are not VTs. nevermind.

[Quiet Owl]

a thought. no-one believed frog's claim except maybe cat scratch and ranger. so what do they know that we don't?

[Quiet Owl]

A package is on delivery! Looks like gremlins attacked the MacBook. Going to hopefully be fixed soon.

no worries, i got the package. unless i wasn't meant to get it? worry then, i guess.

[Quiet Owl]

given a neighbourhood of ten i would guess that there are two scum in there.

in no particular order:

town

gamma
furtive
math
ranger (TENTATIVE)
titus (TENTATIVE)
erinys (TENTATIVE)
ultimate
kitten
lycanfire (TENTATIVE)
gimli
mcmenno
prince

scum

catscratch (confirmed to not be a VT, whatever they are)
enchant (weak)

who?

not mafia
imaginality
kittytacky
georgebailey
elements

[Quiet Owl]

Maybe someone can sell me on it. Anyone wanna give a good rundown on the Owl scum read?

1145 is a bad hop onto the Frog wagon. I'd also argue that Quiet Owl is a newer player from a skim of their meta, and that typically isn't how new players react to TPR claims

Their solving is very unnatural, e.g. the early multiball comment as well as 1035. In 906, they drop a play-by-play analysis of Frog with many reasons to scumread Frog and few reasons to townread Frog. They then go on to say that they were actually townreading Frogs in 977. So what was the purpose of that analysis? It seems like they wanted to show how much solving they were doing, but it wasn't with the goal of limming scum in mind.

Also look at how they've scumread me for basically the whole game, but don't talk to me. They've also avoided engaging with other people- (1252) is another example

i've been busy. had a small exam thingy that i needed to study for.

i'd describe 906 mainly as exasperation at frog's apparently illogical behaviour. weakly townread him mainly because even though he was incredibly detrimental to the town, i don't think scum normally are comfortable attracting that much attention to themselves. you're correct that i wasn't trying to get him eliminated. because i didn't, at that point, think he needed to be eliminated. what i was trying to do was figure out what on earth frog's deal was, because he was making my brain see spinning stars and tweety birds.

"but then you went and voted him!" the "don't kill me i'm super-dee-duper important" pr claim might've made me see red a little. just a little bit. we've lost a psychiatrist which is bad, but i have reason to suspect that there's a fair bit of redundancy in this game. however, we no longer have a significant distraction which i would say is good, as for once the thread doesn't appear to be tunneling.

i haven't put much effort into defending myself because i see my elimination as inevitable. i don't act like normal town. never have, probably never will. therefore i am trying to arrange my iso to be useful after my death, which will prove my alignment and in theory then be helpful. arguing over my alignment is a distraction, and i think it's very very easy for scum to get brownie points by going after me.

[Quiet Owl]

a thought. no-one believed frog's claim except maybe cat scratch and ranger. so what do they know that we don't?

Can you quote exact posts that you think are TMI?

specifically on frog reads? i don't think that's quotable. csf's town read based on meta seems about as solid as my read based on audacity, so no tmi there. ranger gave no defence for frog, however given her cooperation with cat scratch i think it's reasonable to assume that she was sheeping csf.

perhaps my thought was half-baked.

[Quiet Owl]

i haven't put much effort into defending myself because

i see my elimination as inevitable

. i don't act like normal town. never have, probably never will. therefore i am trying to arrange my iso to be useful after my death, which will prove my alignment and in theory then be helpful. arguing over my alignment is a distraction, and i think it's very very easy for scum to get brownie points by going after me.

I think the bolded reaction is a bit premature. Your wagon fell apart very quickly, and now no one is voting you

Not sure how I feel about the rest of the post tbh

you assume i was referring to the wagon!

[Quiet Owl]

Quiet Owl and Gamma Emerald have high partner equity, with them having defended each other the majority of the game.

huh
yeah i townread gamma but i'm pretty sure up until replacing out she wanted me dead?

Came out of this post with a quiet owl townread. Reads like newb trying to make sense of the horrors of trying to read people's alignments in a game of mafia

Quiet Owl I believe has disclosed they are not new. I believe they're an alt? Would need to find the post where they specify such.

Does that change your stance?

HUH
quote the post that gave you that impression, because the day i joined mafiascum and the day i started playing forum-based mafia are one and the same

[Quiet Owl]

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
5 players voting for kitten around (Cat Scratch Fever, Prince of Paterson, McMenno, Lycanfire, HighPrincessErinys)
2 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Gamma Emerald, Not_Mafia)
1 player voting for McMenno (furtiveglance)
1 player voting for Cat Scratch Fever (Enchant)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Gimli)
1 player voting for Lycanfire (kitten around)

4 players not voting (Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, KittyTacky)

11 to eliminate

bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

[Quiet Owl]

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

So with both Not_Mafia and Enchant in this game, that places you as currently at L-2.

So...why aren't you claiming?

E-4, unless you claim to predict the future.
i have no intention to claim at any point in this game. how on earth would that be remotely useful?

[Quiet Owl]

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

So with both Not_Mafia and Enchant in this game, that places you as currently at L-2.

So...why aren't you claiming?

E-4, unless you claim to predict the future.
i have no intention to claim at any point in this game. how on earth would that be remotely useful?

Because if you're town, it'd help us not potentially make a big mistake. Eliminating you, as a townie, would be a mistake. If you claim that gives us insight that we did not previously have that can help us make a more informed decision as a town.

The only reason NOT to claim is because we are all trying to keep PRs secret and keep the mafia from having ALL the cards. But if you're going to die anyway, best tell us what you're going to flip and maybe, just maybe, it'll be the piece that helps us solve your slot.

as towny as you are, your attitude to claiming is dangerous. the kills from last night worry me and i refuse to help them target more PRs.

clear out the scum in the neighbourhood first and then you can safely figure out the setup.

[Quiet Owl]

Spoiler: QO

hmm.
anyone in a neighborhood know if there are any vanilla townies in this game at all?

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

So with both Not_Mafia and Enchant in this game, that places you as currently at L-2.

So...why aren't you claiming?

E-4, unless you claim to predict the future.
i have no intention to claim at any point in this game. how on earth would that be remotely useful?

Because if you're town, it'd help us not potentially make a big mistake. Eliminating you, as a townie, would be a mistake. If you claim that gives us insight that we did not previously have that can help us make a more informed decision as a town.

The only reason NOT to claim is because we are all trying to keep PRs secret and keep the mafia from having ALL the cards. But if you're going to die anyway, best tell us what you're going to flip and maybe, just maybe, it'll be the piece that helps us solve your slot.

as towny as you are, your attitude to claiming is dangerous. the kills from last night worry me and i refuse to help them target more PRs.

clear out the scum in the neighbourhood first and then you can safely figure out the setup.

@QO, quick question, binary answer please, I don't want the full explanation.
Did you have any reason, beside curiosity, to ask about the existence of VTs?

I ask 'cause it would seem to me outing the existence of a VT would normally be of greater utility for anti-town, especially since outing the existence of non-PRs would alert grouscums that they really have to aim with the nightkill. That seems incongruous with your stated reluctance to take any step to facilitate scums' PR-hunting.

yeah, two reasons.

[Quiet Owl]

there's no evidence the game's multiball and in fact direct evidence it

isn't

multiball. A flipped psychiatrist implies the presence of a serial killer; if it were multiball, we'd be

missing a kill

.

To explain, Psychiatrist = Serial Killer.
Serial Killers have kills.
We had two kills on town players N1.
Serial Killer who saw a Psychiatrist flip D1 would know they can't townside so would aim for town.
Two kills = groupscum + SK.

If the game were multiball, it should've been

three

kills (group A + group B + SK).

Two kills is direct evidence of singleball, so the multiball theory is explicitly proscum and likely +scum.

oh you don't count 3ps as separate factions therefore you consider a game with a mafia and a sk to be singleball?

[Quiet Owl]

Owl, who is scum?

i still hold the same opinions i did here.

given a neighbourhood of ten i would guess that there are two scum in there.

in no particular order:

town

gamma
furtive
math
ranger (TENTATIVE)
titus (TENTATIVE)
erinys (TENTATIVE)
ultimate
kitten
lycanfire (TENTATIVE)
gimli
mcmenno
prince

scum

catscratch (confirmed to not be a VT, whatever they are)
enchant (weak)

who?

not mafia
imaginality
kittytacky
georgebailey
elements

[Quiet Owl]

oh you don't count 3ps as separate factions therefore you consider a game with a mafia and a sk to be singleball?

Yes. SKs act as

pseudo

-multiball, but are not actually multiball. Serial Killers

have no team

, and to be multiball, you

need a team

.

That is unless you

agree

with my "Titus and imaginality are a serial killer duo" theory. In

that

case I'd consider the game to be multiball...but it'd mean we shouldn't be letting them off the hook, now, should we?

oh right we've had a miscommunication with our definitions then. i thought of multiball as any game where there's more than two end conditions.

[Quiet Owl]

i still hold the same opinions i did here.

Then why aren't you voting me....

i'm not voting you until i have the chance to properly examine you. if i'm wrong about you, eliminating you is worse than wiping out frog was.

[Quiet Owl]

1920

I have been utterly exhausted. 1200 miles of driving in a week during flooding does that.

However, the TLDR of UltimateGamer is that the arguments they use have no basis to reality but instead serve an agenda. They use the same reasons to push NM that they fully rejected for McMenno. They talk to QuietOwl as if they are townreading QuietOwl to get their toleclaim. Their rationale on townreading KA is hot garbage and partially recycled.

dunno about townreading but it sure as hell felt manipulative.

i have since re-read 1887. the entire thing assumes that i'm town while trying to get info off me to "prove" that i'm town. wtf

he's used the "frustration = town" excuse for both gamma and kitten, which normally would indicate inexperienced town for me, but given his mention of a homesite i suspect he should know better than to townread people for that.

[Quiet Owl]

kitten around is very likely flipping scum because there's little chance her defense of quiet owl on d1 to frogster came from town.

?? This doesn’t follow if you think QO is town?

kitten started to talk about quiet owl's multiball theory when she was supposed to be talking about quiet owl's MQ of frog, like kitten couldn't follow their own supposed reasons for townreading QO.

I think the defense of QO comes from informed scum with TMI that owl is town, and not necessarily a SvS world.

why do you think that i'm town and kitten is informed scum, when occam's razor would indicate that both of us are scum on the same team?

[Quiet Owl]

I'm scumleaning KA after ISOing, it's taking a lot of safe stances from the first day and their reads don't feel maleable like a towny. I haven't read the entirety of it but I can see why people want it dead.

i agree with this.

however the logical conclusion from someone defending someone else, when the majority of the player list is against them, in a way that is flimsy or illogical is that they're scum partners. or lovers. or otherwise entangled, e.g. pr whose ability only works while that person's still alive.

scum do not typically stick their necks out for random townies. scum lets the town eliminate townies that look suspicious, and uses their nightkill on the ones who could never be eliminated in the day.

but hey maybe not acting normally is an excellent way to fool me. VOTE: kitten around

[Quiet Owl]

That’s my secret scumread. Kill McMenno after I flip, kthanx

kitten around isn't claiming, that's a sign of a town player, right?

@Cat Scratch Favor

If it wasn't clear, Cat Scratch Favor is voting kitten around.

Cat Scratch Favor has defended Quiet Owl's refusal to claim as being indicative of a slot being town.

kitten around is not claiming.

Ergo, if Cat Scratch Favor actually believed their philosophy were true, they'd unvote kitten around here.

(To be clear, that philosophy is backwards.)

you're misinterpreting things here, i think. their modus operandi this entire game has been "if they're acting completely insane, they're probably not scum."

[Quiet Owl]

And no I've never played with NM or any of y'all before this is my first game here!

I also like that right after I tell Lycan that he's making just enough effort to not be noticed too much that he gives this big ol analytical deep dive. Like "oh shit they're onto me, better look like I'm participating and quick!"

shows that you haven't really read anything they've posted

[Quiet Owl]

shows that you haven't really read anything they've posted

I've been trying but it is incredibly difficult for me to follow that's not a slight against them either it really does look like they put a lot of effort into it. I'm still sitting here reading and re-reading it because whenever I get more than a sentence into it my brain just starts thinking about thing like "why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?"

Happens anytime someone posts long walls of solid text.

wait what since when does glue not stick to the inside of the bottle

i had this clag stuff as a kid which absolutely stuck to the inside of the bottle. kept having to use my fingers to scrape it out

[Quiet Owl]

bizarre choices for nightkills, but i guess it's helpful for us? saves us from mis-eliminating catscratch today.

the fact that they didn't go for the top posters yesterday worries me that someone there is scum.

[Quiet Owl]

bizarre choices for nightkills, but i guess it's helpful for us? saves us from mis-eliminating catscratch today.

the fact that they didn't go for the top posters yesterday worries me that someone there is scum.

How are they bizarre? Have you been reading the game? Did you really think Cat Scratch Fever was likely to be eliminated today?

going for the person with "potentially nasty consequences" to being eliminated is odd. you think csf was universally townread?

[Quiet Owl]

re-reading because i don't remember if Ranger was driving the elements wagon or not. had them confused with imaginality

[Quiet Owl]

Ranger jumped from townreading Elements for the entirety of the game up until 1230 to scumreading them in 2231. could you explain your thought process there?

[Quiet Owl]

Lycanfire's analysis was that my uncharacteristic hard defense of kitten around and lack of change in reads was owed to being a scumbuddy.
It was actually something else. There's no delicate way to say it, but simply put, it was someone not-Ranger leaking through with

her

style and

her

tendencies having taken control. SHE doesn't change her reads. SHE exaggerates the strength of her reads. SHE was there, and I am quite miffed about it because I specifically set out to play

without

her being there specifically because I knew she'd cause damage like that.

If you have speakeasy/GTKAS access, you may be able to understand. If not, you must simply take the word of those who understand. Regardless of their alignments, both Titus and MathBlade (among others) should be able to vouch for HER being like that. So I must apologize. She shouldn't be playing; it

should

be just me.

i don't have speakeasy access but i think i know what you're getting at and i'll take your word for it.

[Quiet Owl]

you've put words in my mouth there. my guess in 215 wasn't groupscum + SK, and i did not elaborate on what factions i thought were in the game. HOWEVER my guess back then was mafia + wolves. if there actually is a SK and frogster wasn't made a psychiatrist just to make everyone paranoid, it seems impossible that wolves exist in this game.

[Quiet Owl]

ye cannae hold a wurm

[Quiet Owl]

my distinct impression was that the moment ranger was threatened by lycanfire, math and N_M immediately jumped on lycan to stop her from becoming a wagon. makes me think that whatever she is, she's crucial to scum winning.

purely based on that frigging weird behaviour, VOTE: Ranger

[Quiet Owl]

my distinct impression was that the moment ranger was threatened by lycanfire, math and N_M immediately jumped on lycan to stop her from becoming a wagon. makes me think that whatever she is, she's crucial to scum winning.

purely based on that frigging weird behaviour, VOTE: Ranger

i think my exact phrasing here is worth taking note of.

[Quiet Owl]

claiming may actually be useful at this point.

i am a town hated [REDACTED]

essentially, a JOAT with no list of approved actions. i send in a night action and hope it works.
N1: successfully neopolitan'd catscratch
N2: attempted to doc gimli, no idea if that was successful or not
N3: attempted to vig ranger. clearly it didn't work, since she's still alive

[Quiet Owl]

Unless we get a doc claim on Ranger or a QO block (unlikely), there's certain scum in Ranger and QO.

QO, why didn't you claim this sooner? Why wait until massclaim?

1) my role looks like complete and utter nonsense
2) i am, as far as i know, the only town pr that might be able to reliably doc people
3) i have no idea if i can act as a paranoid gun owner / bomb at night, so i did NOT want to try that gambit.

[Quiet Owl]

claiming may actually be useful at this point.

i am a town hated [REDACTED]

essentially, a JOAT with no list of approved actions. i send in a night action and hope it works.
N1: successfully neopolitan'd catscratch
N2: attempted to doc gimli, no idea if that was successful or not
N3: attempted to vig ranger. clearly it didn't work, since she's still alive

Why aren't you allowed to say your role name?

-Summon

that is the actual role name, as far as i know. my post wasn't mod-edited, if that's what you think

[Quiet Owl]

my distinct impression was that the moment ranger was threatened by lycanfire, math and N_M immediately jumped on lycan to stop her from becoming a wagon.

i think my exact phrasing here is worth taking note of.

Your exact phrasing doesn't change your narrative being proven wrong by simply reading two pages of the game.

There were two votes on me. Lycanfire's, and yours.

There were

four

votes on

you

. None from flipped scum.

The latter came

after

the former, not before.

I was actively talking to Lycanfire. That meant Lycanfire was likely to change reads on me.

That means there's no "Ranger was threatened by Lycanfire" moment. It doesn't exist.

There

was

a "Quiet Owl was threatened by the town" moment.

i am perpetually being wagoned. i was no more under threat on day 3 than i was on any other day.

you, however, were being seriously questioned for the first time by a player who was generally townread. you panicked and tried to stall for time then, and you seem to be panicking and trying to throw shade on the easiest alternate target now.

[Quiet Owl]

claiming may actually be useful at this point.

i am a town hated [REDACTED]

essentially, a JOAT with no list of approved actions. i send in a night action and hope it works.
N1: successfully neopolitan'd catscratch
N2: attempted to doc gimli, no idea if that was successful or not
N3: attempted to vig ranger. clearly it didn't work, since she's still alive

Why aren't you allowed to say your role name?

-Summon

that is the actual role name, as far as i know. my post wasn't mod-edited, if that's what you think

Your role is called [REDACTED]?

-Summon

bingo!

[Quiet Owl]

I feel Ranger is the SK and scum want the KPN. Her post might as well scream SK.

As the SK, I don't 3p hunt.
I hunt scum.
I shoot at scumreads. (Not townreads.) My HighPrincessErinys kill matches shooting my scumreads. If I were the one to kill the Gamma Emerald slot, that would too. But why would I claim the Princess kill and then

not

claim the Gamma Emerald slot kill? And where's my kill on a scumread N1? I was townreading both StD and MT, with both in my top tier of townread. I guarantee you neither was killed by me.

I don't suspect a serial killer duo while I am the serial killer.

I hunt for scum and try to make people think there's no third party at all.

Frogsterking's flip proves there's a serial killer, sure, but I was hunting 3p on D1, before Frogsterking flipped.

I literally have neighborhood proof I made the Psychiatrist/Psychologist mixup N1. (KittyTacky and the furtiveglance hydra can confirm. I quoted a MathBlade post and erroneously confused Psychiatrist and Psychologist. Not sure if I'm allowed to specify a post or page, but it was about 2/3rds through the neighborhood PT, and about middle in my iso.)
As a serial killer, that's not a mistake I'd have made.

As the SK, I don't claim a role which makes me look like a serial killer.

I'm not a Serial Killer. I actually think my role was meant to be protective with the option of being used offensively.

you absolutely were not hunting 3p on D1. you actively discouraged it by calling it pro-scum in 1116.

[Quiet Owl]

Unless we get a doc claim on Ranger or a QO block (unlikely), there's certain scum in Ranger and QO. QO, why didn't you claim this sooner? Why wait until massclaim?

Almost like Quiet Owl is fakeclaiming.

Remember when we had Quiet Owl near elimination and QO refused to claim?

I sure do!

strange how you like the "this role is too elaborate to possibly have come from scum" defence for yourself, but think it indicates that i'm scum.
strange how you can't see the difference between being blatantly pressured into claiming on D2, and massclaiming on D4.

[Quiet Owl]

you, however, were being seriously questioned for the first time by a player who was generally townread.

Not so. There has been suspicion on me from townread players the entire game. (I can track these Ranger suspicions from townread players later reversed if you insist, but suffice to say, this is provable by reading the thread, something you seem adverse to doing. I wonder why?)

re-skimmed ranger's iso. her claim here is false.

i don't like any sequence of events that leaves ranger and patterson alive. it is

possible

that i can also act tonight as a suicide bomber, but i think that if that's the case, my attempted vigging last night would have been modified to that, and i would be dead. more likely that i can act as a psychiatrist.

[Quiet Owl]

this was a hell of a cool game. thank you xyzzy and korina!