Hollow Knight Mafia [game over]

[Black]

Day starts are fun

[Black]

Hi everyone. I'm new here, but not really new to Mafia. I haven't played in a long time so I'll have to relearn some things. GL all!

[Black]

Hi everyone. I'm new here, but not really new to Mafia. I haven't played in a long time so I'll have to relearn some things. GL all!

Where did u play before

I used to play in the old MPFG forums back in the day, then Paranoia Paradise. I know some of my colleagues over there came over here once it shut down but I don't see any of them around anymore

[Black]

VOTE: redFF

Racist

[Black]

Hi everyone. I'm new here, but not really new to Mafia. I haven't played in a long time so I'll have to relearn some things. GL all!

hello welcome to mafiascum don't mind the mess

Thanks! I was pleasantly surprised when I stumbled here and saw how active it is

[Black]

Now I ask to be named king of this thread. I have already taken over the scum PT by spamming it to death while DATISI forever in how long he takes to start games, sat idly by.

Who was your biggest competition in the scum PT?

[Black]

I don't like the sound of that

This was obviously about 516

Suuuuuure. Now we know who isn't an ally

[Black]

VOTE: Firebringer

Based

[Black]

Everyone is now forced to watch anime.

Oh no!!! Anyways

[Black]

Who else is town ITT

We are not a town. We are a whole freaking Kingdom

[Black]

We may never know.

Well tbf we will find out when you flip

[Black]

I agree with Petapan, but I don't necessarily think it's a scum tell. I've been guilty of trying to move past the early game joke phase in this way before

[Black]

if yall sick of me claiming scum. I will drop it after page 10.
I am still having fun with it for now though.

I don't mind it. Could be a potential "I claimed scum on page 1 and still won the game" moment for you, but I'm not convinced

[Black]

UNVOTE: redFF

I'm no longer convinced he's racist against Dwarves.

Interesting case against Gimli though. There were lots of people posting early and no one was really advancing the game, yet for some reason he only picked on furtive

[Black]

UNVOTE: redFF

I'm no longer convinced he's racist against Dwarves.

Interesting case against Gimli though. There were lots of people posting early and no one was really advancing the game, yet for some reason he only picked on furtive

two things

I know furtive and I know he goes hard early as town. this is uncharacteristic I promise you.

out of all top posters he is the only one who didn't drop a single read in those pages when other people were doing that. he was ignoring the mafia playing parts of the conversation.

check his ISO to see for yourself

You're right about his ISO. And I'll just have to take your word for it when it comes to his play style. I feel like I'm at a big disadvantage here not knowing any of you.

I will say the "reads" other posters were making came across as jokes to me. Is a joke read better than no read at all?

[Black]

You're also no longer a good vote IMO x3

Can you explain what you mean by this?

[Black]

I'm still trying to figure out this Morning Tweet change of heart

Well it's a very good read of my intentions by Klick. Maybe informed makes you get there easier.

Here she becomes suspicious of Klick, right after FB put some pressure on him with a vote. Aristeia quickly cast a 2nd vote (with no reason?) and MT does a complete 180 from thinking FB is sus to agreeing with FB about Klick, casting the 3rd vote for him.

You're also no longer a good vote IMO x3

And I still don't know what this means, but if she's suggesting FB isn't a good vote because he already has 3, it would seem odd to jump to a 3rd vote on the Klick wagon. I could be misinterpreting this comment though

The quick change of heart from FB to Klick feels off and its the only minor scum read I've gotten so far

[Black]

I knew I was reading that wrong XD

[Black]

I don't really see how Fire got Klick thinks MT is town from Klick's 184 so like I disagree with the premise of the push entirely. I'm not going to say I don't understand where he is coming from because I think I can but I feel like that alone isn't enough for me personally

This is exactly how I feel about the Klick push. It was built on nothing and then it steamrolled when MT went from voting Fire to joining his cause against Klick.

Alisae, your last post had 8 town reads. Any scum reads?

[Black]

Alisae, your last post had 8 town reads.

Any scum reads?

no. Also I'm not sure why you wrote the bolded tbh.

You either had scum reads and didn't include them, or didn't have any scum reads at all. Both options seem a little odd at this stage of the game and I wanted you to clarify.

I don't know your playstyle but I get a weird vibe like you're trying to play too safe. It's easy to not step on anyone's toes or make a target out of yourself when you're coasting through Day 1 giving only townreads

[Black]

I like all of Blacks posting.
Does that equal town?!?!?
I have yet to understand if its just a personality im liking or i think its just good brain working on this game hunting.

I think black if town will be crucial to this game.
Seems like a smart cookie
(this is me trying to buddy black if town)

You have more confidence in my own abilities this game than me, that's for sure! I'm having a hard time figuring out everyone's behaviors. I'm suspicious of a couple but I don't feel strongly about any of my reads. So I'm just trying to prod and ask questions where I can until I feel confident enough to make a serious vote.

[Black]

Do you have wolf reads then? How would not having wolf reads at this point be odd?

Just a couple, albeit very minor wolf reads. Nothing that has made me confidently go "this person is a wolf." I feel lost this game but I'm trying to piece things together. I guess what seems odd to me is that you've been playing here with a lot of these people for a long time, and nothing so far has seemed the slightest bit off to you? I believe you when you say you don't have wolf reads. I'm just a little surprised.

[Black]

not rly people rly need to do more things and it’s pretty early. Even if I did have wolfreads right now I pretty much take them with a grain of salt? Pretty easy to get overconfident about something and be wrong at this stage of the game.

I vibe with this explanation. This is pretty much exactly how I feel at the moment

Tbh most of this playerlist is unfamiliar to me, there are just a few individuals like fire Taly Cakez Klick Peta MT and Misty that all come to mind that I’m familiar with and tbh I think the players I think are easiest to read in that pool are Misty and Peta?

My mistake then. I probably shouldn't have assumed everyone here knows everyone else.

Black I’m interested in these minor wolf reads u have

Nothing too substantial. I was sus of MT when she flipped to the Klick wagon over the smallest hunch (basically, "Klick understands my personality and read my actions right, so maybe he has insider information that I'm town"). I wasn't a big fan of that.

I'm also getting weird vibes from Ari. Her votes and claims have come with little analysis (see 186 and 223), though she just posted a bit ago elaborating on her reads. I liked that post. Someone mentioned the last time she was scum she had a similar playstyle of shitposting, but I don't know how much weight that carries.

Gimli seemed pretty confident that furtive was playing different than his normal playstyle early. Then he just kind of...drops it? I questioned Gimli on why he singled out furtive when others were playing the same way early, and his response was basically "trust me bro" (178). Gimli then jumps on the mobile VPB wagon and his reasoning for voting VPB was the exact reason he voted for furtive (playing different than normal). Taly questioned him about his furtive stance and he deflects back to VPB, only to ultimately unvote VPB and vote red for being "detached". Not sure if this is a scum read on Gimli or a townie that is all over the place. I'm still figuring this one out.

That's pretty what I have at the moment.

[Black]

VOTE: asri

I slept on this and I feel like asri not being able to give actual reasons to why they hard town read someone doesn't make a lot of sense coming from town. I mean, sure, gut townread someone early game for vibes or whatever, but a hard town read? Nah.

I want to echo that I also get weird vibes from Asri and I forgot to include it in my last post. He has townread multiple people now with no explanations, and when pushed to elaborate, he refuses.

VOTE: Asri

I want to put pressure on Asri to contribute actual game-advancing content. Who are your townreads and why? Any scum reads so far, and why?

[Black]

@black as the game progresses, my reads go to different places. do you want me to still talk about furtive's early play?

No, I think you have said enough there. Could you maybe provide some insight on why you think red is a better vote than furtive or VPB?

[Black]

Asri has already been pretty clear that they don't want to elaborate further; I don't think further pressure to make that happen is very productive

I think they should have some time to do their thing

I think it would be productive to know

why

Asri doesn't want to elaborate further, right? If the early game townreads were just flavor and jokes then it would benefit us to know that.

[Black]

my read on FF is that the way he is engaging with the thread is scummy because he hasn't done anything and what he did was a bad read that was repeated by half the game.

I just did a quick ISO on redFF and, yeah, you're right. He hasn't contributed anything other than a vote for you.

[Black]

my read on FF is that the way he is engaging with the thread is scummy because he hasn't done anything and what he did was a bad read that was repeated by half the game.

I just did a quick ISO on redFF and, yeah, you're right. He hasn't contributed anything other than a vote for you.

zzz

Wake up

[Black]

im gonna give this game a read

That's what I want to hear!

[Black]

What are the editing rules for this forum? I tried to look for it in the FAQ but couldn't find anything

[Black]

so we say EBWOP (edit by way of post) and just double post

Ok perfect. This is what I'm used to

[Black]

Which Hollow Knight characters do people think are mafia

Are we even allowed to talk about it

I don't see why we couldn't speculate. I have no flavor knowledge here. Maybe I should go buy the game...

[Black]

Flavour (the characters) in role PMs is not alignment indicative, as there was an element of randomness in assigning alignment to flavour.

Welp that was fun while it lasted

[Black]

unless someone refutes my vote I see no reason to consider other options at this moment

What's your tldr on MT?

Also curious about this. Taly's vote for MT came with no explanation and he has stuck by it this entire time

[Black]

This one trusts Fire and Furtive, likes Red, Klick and hasn't had reason to not like Sir Cakez. There are others that this one might place above the previous three but this one is not naming their names, as this one doesn't like to be fooled and rather trusts its first impressions now.

This one doesn't like to be forced, it will not expand!

Meh. I was hoping to hear

why

you trust these people, but whatever

[Black]

are you even reading my posts

Yes. In fact I did a full ISO on you before posting that. I did miss 288 where you elaborate on why you think MT is scummy. My apologies.

[Black]

This one trusts Fire and Furtive, likes Red, Klick and hasn't had reason to not like Sir Cakez. There are others that this one might place above the previous three but this one is not naming their names, as this one doesn't like to be fooled and rather trusts its first impressions now.

This one doesn't like to be forced, it will not expand!

Meh. I was hoping to hear

why

you trust these people, but whatever

This one simply does. Why is that bad?

It's not necessarily bad. I just wanted to hear your reasoning (or lack-there-of) for thinking they are town. Thank you for doing that

[Black]

black im undecided with you

have we played before? are you an alt?

Nope. This is my first game on MS

[Black]

the color squad Red and Black are giving me some town pings off town lowkey mixing them up tho lol

actually i take this back from a quick iso all the good posts were just Black
Red's iso is a nothingburger

I was gonna say... we've had very different games so far other than we're both colors

I'll UNVOTE: for now. I can't read Asri and the vote was to make them talk more, which they did

Red said he would read the thread so I will be eagerly awaiting some actual analysis from him

[Black]

Fire, Black, Taly, Alisae, CSF, furtive, Klick all feel decently town to me
Meanwhile not a fan of MT, Gimli, Red, Ari or honestly you rn

These are almost my reads exactly, wtf. I'm leaning slightly town with Gimli though. A fickle townie, but town vibes nonetheless

[Black]

@furtive:

Top quote I'm vocalizing my thoughts about my first scum read. Second quote I'm hoping to get more from Ali because I'm always wary of players that seem like they're buddying up to everyone. Her following responses kind of lowered my eyebrows a little for now

[Black]

redff is funny leave him alone

No

VOTE: redFF

What's your read on the thread?

[Black]

i don't know what that means

Red said he would read the thread, so I'm asking for his thoughts

[Black]

Sorry, I should have clarified who I was asking the question to

[Black]

Why? It's pretty early in the game I don't see what you think is wrong with it. Keep in mind it's pretty early in the game so I imagine it's pretty easy to want to be cooperative with other people for their wagons just to help progress the game.

The original flip-flop from FB to the person FB thought was scummy caught me off guard. MT explained herself in 309 and I didn't feel my read was strong enough to keep pursuing at the time.

It's fine if it's like your first game on the site but you're going to have to do better than this tho ig you did say you don't even substantial reads. "They're not constantly posting analysis/content, they're voting randomly, or they target is not providing (substantial) explanations" is fine now since I imagine we don't have much to go off of but it's not gong to cut it later.

I really think the biggest reason why I'm struggling to find you as town currently is I think due to the quality and explanation of your own reads. Again I don't particularly think you've done anything wolf indicative just nothing that super screams town indicative. It's also not really easy this early on so like idunno just keep playin ur game I'm sure I'll figure it out

I understand this perspective. I never said my reads were any good. I've openly questioned my own reads even. None of them have been strong enough to do anything with. I mostly want to keep discussion going and analyze things as they go since I don't have much history to work with

[Black]

Taly feels really town

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

the entirety of Ari's scumhunting everyone

VOTE: sircakes

OMGUS? I kind of agree with the Cake. Your ISO is full of fluff posts and wagon votes with no substance. Your defense was you've wanted to play less serious Mafia, but will that help the town?

I like red's analysis of the game so far. This is the first I've seen "serious red" and it's enough so to move on for now

VOTE: Aristeia

[Black]

Taly feels really town

i feel the best about TRing Ali, Gimli & Taly

i think klick vpb & redff are all fine places to vote.

id tr firebringer but i dont want him to get mad at me.

the entirety of Ari's scumhunting everyone

VOTE: sircakes

OMGUS? I kind of agree with the Cake. Your ISO is full of fluff posts and wagon votes with no substance. Your defense was you've wanted to play less serious Mafia, but will that help the town?

I like red's analysis of the game so far. This is the first I've seen "serious red" and it's enough so to move on for now

VOTE: Aristeia

are you voting me because you think I am not helpful or voting me because you think I am mafia?

I think you're scummy

[Black]

This thread blew up overnight! I will do my best to read and catch up today in between my activities

[Black]

because?

Mainly based off of your behaviors and playstyle. I just did a full ISO of you to confirm my position but it only made me less confident in my read. There's more substance than I thought. I think my opinion of you is skewed because I'm not used to this type of town playstyle of contributing little and getting a pass for it (228)

I think Aristeia is town, and Cakez' characterisation is unfair as it excludes the early push on FireKinger

You mean the vote for FB in her very first post on page 3, during the joke phase, right after FB claimed scum? You consider that a town post?

also he could simply be unsure of his read since theres no actual meta history and what he's picking up on could just be personality quirks or being used to playing mafia a certain way somewhere else.

This is my biggest obstacle right now, and why I'm having a hard time trusting my reads. I'll get back in the swing of things.

For the record I don't consider peta's line on me scum indicative. I'll need to ISO peta to get a better read but his interactions with furtive regarding me make me think he's closer to town than wolf, specifically his reasonings in 661 and 670.

[Black]

i feel like talking about blacks scumread of ari.
But there isn't much to talk about.
Its the first thing from black i don't like.

I think both of the Alisae/Aristeia twins are town

What townreads do you have of them?

i think the characterization of ari as fluff/no substance is inaccurate but i can see a player unfamiliar with the playstyle scumreading ari for it. or conversely a scum player thinking she'd be a good push. the possibilities contain multitudes or smth

Ari's posts have gotten better but I'm still not sure about her. Day 1, first game on the site will probably be the time I'm least confident in my scumreads. I will improve. The fact that no one else seems too concerned with Ari being a wolf makes me less confident in my read

I'll let the third member come out if they want

So Klick, Lycan, and a third member are in a hood. Based on a previous post I'm pretty sure I know who the third member is but what I'm not sure of is if I should out them or not. To be fair they did make it pretty obvious

not sure how to feel about klick revealing the existence of the hood for no reason

@klick did you discuss with the hood about revealing it in thread?

Kind of a weird read by red here IMO. I'm having a hard time figuring out why a scum Klick would reveal the hood but maybe I'm just not seeing it. I already wasn't a fan of the early Klick wagon and the hood reveal gives him even more town points in my book

[Black]

VOTE: Lycanfire

CSF/Lycanfire are probably good places to vote right now imo.
but i don't have any like REALLY GOOD reads to pursue. Kind of disappointing. Was hoping a hero solve would appear by now

Did I miss your case on Lycanfire? Why do you think he's scum?

[Black]

Go on then

Does it benefit the town to out them? You said yourself you wanted them to out themselves. Why should I?

[Black]

saving my place at top of page 24

think lycan is town for reasons I’ll think are bad if i explain

[Black]

This one thinks, with Lycan of the Fire and Klick already having affirmed their part in this, that there is value in keeping the third a mystery?

For now, yes?

Well I'm wrong, so whether there is value or not, a mystery it will remain

[Black]

Can I get some votes here

VOTE: Klick

Can I get some responses from you?

FoS: furtiveglance

[Black]

As far as I can see you've asked me one question about Alisae and Aristeia, which was buried in a bigger post.

826

[Black]

Again, you buried this, and actually yeah I think the early progression on Fire was towny

Sorry I am inconveniencing you by making you read the game lol

[Black]

Spoiler: Mild furtive case

I'm getting bad vibes from furtive after finally giving myself time to ISO him. There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari, and now I'm not so sure about Fire.

actually yeah I think [Aristeia's] early progression on Fire was towny

This is furtive's most recent comment, and what led me to do the ISO in the first place. He made this revelation after I questioned him about his reaction to SirCakes voting for Aristeia (#638). Furtive came running to Ari's defense in #638 once SirCakes voted for her for "having 0 town posts in her entire ISO" (#611). This was the first time Furtive has communicated any reads on Ari, even though he was given the chance to earlier in the game. I'll get to that in a second. But first I want to emphasize here that Furtive's reasoning for calling SirCake's vote "unfair" is that Ari in fact

did

have a town post in her ISO, and it was her first post in the game, during the joke phase: #66

This is the only town post Furtive can reference in all of Ari's ISO? This leads me to the beginning of the game. Furtive got some pretty unjustified heat for not providing any reads, but when he defended himself, he said he didn't have any: #282. Here Furtive says he "didn't have anything to comment on" and "if I see something I'll say something." We now know he thought the Ari vote on Fire was towny, so why wouldn't he say something about it here? His only read in #282 is that his initial vote against Fire was serious and that "Fire would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town." Keep in mind here that Furtive admits he thinks Fire is kind of scummy.

Furtive's next notable move is to switch his vote from Fire to the Klick wagon in #303. Furtive's vote is the 4th vote on the wagon Klick wagon, which was started by Fire, followed by Aristeia and Morning Tweet. The scumread against Klick was essentially non-existent and boiled down to Klick guessing MT's intentions correctly. It's strange to me that Furtive would vote Klick here, especially considering he should have gotten a townread from Klick from #81. Furtive thinks Ari's vote on Fire was towny, but not Klick's?

You know who else voted for Fire early? RedFF, in #86. What's notable here is that both Klick and redFF appear at the very bottom of Furtive's Scum List. Aristeia is in the middle of the list, despite Furtive admitting recently that he had a townread on her from her Fire vote. I'm confused why Furtive didn't townread Klick and RedFF for their Fire votes. And Fire, interestingly enough, is at the top of the list, despite Furtive being suspicious of him earlier. The only thing that changed was Fire's weak case against Klick. That was apparently enough to move Fire from the bottom of the list to the top?

Furtive's Scum List:

Sorry for ruining the game by ending it so early because my reads are that good

{Datisi}

{FireKinger, SirCakez, Taly, VP Baltar}

{Alisae, Aristeia, Gimli, Morning Tweet, Mistyx}

{Asri Teroka, Lycanfire, petapan}

{Black, CSF}

{Klick, redFF}

{My new avatar}

Black could have endgamed in a historic win but I had to stop that

I don't like this flip on Fire, especially when both Fire and Furtive have openly discussed how Fire would play as scum. And it just so happens Fire is actually playing that way. Bold is my emphasis:

I don't know - I had thoughts, my vote on Firebringer wasn't a joke, but it's not the strongest read either -

just that I think he would enjoy posting like that more as scum than town

. Whether or not I 'go hard' also can depend on my current mood and schedule as well

We would all do better to take an internet forum game less seriously. I approve of this mentality.
I can also vibe with the not letting team down thing,

its the only thing that kind of sucks about playing scum. But then I eventually figure my team wants to have more fun than to win or at least they should. So then i don't feel so bad about when im playing bad as scum

if everyone took my philisophy of playing mafia and just ran with it.
Everyone would enjoy the game.

But then the number of scum claiming in games would probably break the game

and we would all be hunting players who try to even pretend to be townie. Would either be horrifying or interesting to see.

I found these three comments interesting. Furtive admits that Fire would enjoy posting the way he did at the beginning of the game moreso if he were scum. And Fire admits that he doesn't like to let his team down when playing scum, but that his team would rather have fun than win, so he still feels good about doing things like scumclaiming as scum. In the second quote from Fire, he's saying more people would enjoy the game if they scumclaimed as scum. If Fire eventually flips wolf (which, again, I'm not sure of and it probably depends on furtive's/Ari's alignment), this will be read as Fire trying to excuse his early game actions.

Furtive's next big move is to leave the Klick wagon in #590 and vote for redFF, conveniently right after Fire abandons it in #502 to also vote for redFF.

tis i, Radiance

Scumclaim Radiance. Nice.

Klick you're looking radiant

You like to mention Radiant a lot. Is it on your mind from your role PM?

Which Hollow Knight characters do people think are mafia

Are we even allowed to talk about it

I don't like this comment

MT is Town Taly that vote sucks!

I don't like this either. How are you so sure?

Klick is maf, all town wagon, game solved D1

Talking to the town here eh? Trying to get them to wagon Klick off of a swiss-cheese argument?

All of these things, combined with the gut feelings I get from some of his other comments, have made furtive is my top wolf candidate. If I end up being right about this, my attention will turn to Ari and Fire.

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Black]

Let's build some wagons

VOTE: redFF

[Black]

I actually like ur scumread on me black.
I don't like ur scumread on Ari.

If you and furtive are scum, Ari is scum. In my eyes at least

[Black]

But personally I think the likelihood of scum goes Furtive >>> Ari >>> Fire, so I would want to see Ari flip after furtive

[Black]

VOTE: Firebringer

Firebringer/redFF/Lycanfire
One more for the grand slam

This isn't towny. Do you think it is?

I don't find early game joke votes as alignment indicative

I townread Aristeia's meta commentary about Firebringer more than the vote itself

What commentary? You mean her saying "I think you're scum"? Because that was basically the extent of it if you check Ari's ISO

[Black]

I think this 'case' is motivated by self-defence which is noted.

I've never felt attacked by you. But noting it is definitely the right play here

[Black]

i think this is an interesting sequence from cakez early in the game

I can't get on board with this, but I like the effort in your post. Cakez is probably at the top of my townread list

[Black]

Sorry for ruining the game by ending it so early because my reads are that good

{Datisi}

{FireKinger, SirCakez, Taly, VP Baltar}

{Alisae, Aristeia, Gimli, Morning Tweet, Mistyx}

{Asri Teroka, Lycanfire, petapan}

{Black, CSF}

{Klick, redFF}

{My new avatar}

Could you elaborate on why Ari didn't make it into your top tier? What made her less town than the 4 above her? She shared your scumread of both Fire and Klick early on, and you just said yourself you tend to think people are really townie when they agree with your scumreads. You both mindmelded over Taly being town in #223 and #399. So what held you back from putting Ari in the top tier?

Speaking of #399. Why didn't you list Ari here as a townread? After all the above, you still didn't get a townread from her??? But we now know you did. Because you just recently admitted you did. So why exclude her from #399?

[Black]

(btw, Black, people complain about long posts but imo spoiler tagging things is giving people an invitation to skip a post, many skim the thread and won't click just my 2 cents)

Yeah, I'm not sure what do to. I was advised to share my thought processes and also to not have long posts. That...might be difficult for me lol. But I will try to condense

first of all, "There is some correlation here with my minor suspicions of Ari" immediately makes me doubt the accuracy of this because it's tying things to a player who probably isn't scum, in general doing stuff making these associative cases is pretty low accuracy because you can get hung up on incidental stuff, and if one of your targets is town often the whole thing falls apart. that type of case usually comes more often from town who are overzealous though i think

This is exactly why I called my case "mild". It's mostly based off of player interactions and inconsistencies. I can definitely be a bit overzealous when I feel like I'm on to something, but the good news is I'm aware of that and I try to take that into consideration when scumhunting

[Black]

Regarding the Cakez wagon... I'm not a fan of how it snowballed. Mainly the votes from CSF and Asri. I'll have to look through at some point to see what else is noteworthy

I got a strong townread from Cakez earlier but it was mostly due to us mindmelding in #487. Some of my reads have changed since then so we may not be on the same page anymore. I didn't mind his vote for Ari because I agreed with him on her ISO. However, the fact that most of this playerlist seems to have a townread on Ari makes me very skeptical of my own read.

Ari has tunneled in on Cakez after he voted for her. She OMGUS voted Cakez and then 99% of her content since then has been about Cakez being scum. Can someone advise if this is normal behavior from Ari?

[Black]

This one is explaining nothing to you.

This type of behavior makes me want to pull my hair out

[Black]

yeah because you pissed her off

Not a good excuse for tunneling. It doesn't benefit the town to act this way if she is town

[Black]

I don't think it's that unusual for Ari to tunnel as town if she feels strongly about a scum read. Part of what bugged me about her earlier was a lack of passion like this. I'd assess the case on merits rather than whether ari is tunneling or not

Personally it's hard for me to judge Ari's case since it's all about Cakez playstyles in previous games. I haven't had the time to read over the 6 Mafia games she linked involving Cakez

[Black]

And the bigger issue...Asri refuses to elaborate...

[Black]

Where?

Earlier in the game I believe it was Ali and peta that said I should be transparent with my thought process. And recently it was MT that said my posts were a bit on the heavy side xD

[Black]

also the Lycan wagon -

I can't even remember a post Lycan has made so it feels pretty whatever to me

i don't really want to lim in the hood today though

That's generally a pretty good sign someone is scum

But you think Cakez is a better vote option than Lycan? Why did you jump on the Cakez wagon?

[Black]

oh, i just remembered i left firebringer out of my reads, he's my top scumread but only because he doesn't want to be townread

Would you mind sharing your actual read of Fire?

[Black]

This one thinks Radiance's Infected likely includes Black, Baltar, Sir of the Cakez and the Furtive One.
This one isn't saying why, isn't even sure whether they will! This one is tired. Maybe later this will explain? Maybe not.

[Black]

But you think Cakez is a better vote option than Lycan?

Why did you jump on the Cakez wagon?

People on the Lycan wagon were moving to Cakez.

So your strategy is essentially follow the wagon? I'll have to check your ISO but I recall you jumping on a few other wagons too. Can you explain why you consider this town behavior from yourself?

[Black]

This one thinks Radiance's Infected likely includes Black, Baltar, Sir of the Cakez and the Furtive One.
This one isn't saying why, isn't even sure whether they will! This one is tired. Maybe later this will explain? Maybe not.

You can vote here still.

I'm just not sure if this is bad scum play or bad town play

[Black]

Aristeia - forgive me if you've mentioned it, but do you have any scum reads other than Cakez and can you give me the tl;dr of them?

[Black]

I'm going for a walk now and I'll answer your question later @Black.

No rush! Enjoy your walk

[Black]

yeah I think there's opportunistic scum in cakez wagon and I have no idea how people can actually be scumreading cakez outside of ari

I agree. The Cakez wagon is sus

[Black]

I'm not sure anymore

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

I actually like this. CSF is kind of letting everyone else cook and seems content with just following the majority. Not sure if she always plays this way or not

[Black]

Black who is your main suspect don't say me

I'm still not confident in any of my reads but if the day ended right now I would vote you or Aristeia

[Black]

not aristeia though

Could you elaborate on your TR of Ari?

[Black]

Let's build some wagons

VOTE: redFF

You already tried this one

[Black]

Why do you feel demotivated?

[Black]

I'm getting major townie vibes from MT's post. I feel like she's being honest and her thought progression feels natural

[Black]

I think he just did it to distract people from scumreading him

I don't think so. There wasn't much pressure on Klick at all when he claimed. Two votes from the MT situation but that was pretty much it

[Black]

Yes they can all be scum and there's nothing bastard about an all scum hood.

Really? Seems kinda bastard if you ask me. What's the point of an all scum hood?

[Black]

why is it very town

Because if the biggest wagon is pushing scum!me, I'm gonna yeet them off the face of the earth, not credit their good points

Except Misty never had the biggest wagon on her. So how does this explanation even correlate?

It feels like you're throwing out definitive town reads with little backing to buddy up to people

[Black]

This one feels only Black feels better, and then only very slightly! Not that much in truth. Perhaps the Furtive One might feel better than Black? Or might not.

I think you were right the first time. furtive is scum

[Black]

Cakez is the biggest wagon, and pushing Mistyxx

I'm sorry, I misunderstood

[Black]

Scum aren't usually ones to depart the consensus, they usually enforce the consensus or try to mold it better.
Is furtive molding consensus or trying to? I Don't think so.

So you tr furtive because he's not playing like a usual scum would? Noted

[Black]

Do you think furtive personally as scum goes agaisnt consensus to build his own in the game or goes along with town consnesus that is building.

I truthfully do not know. I wish I knew you people xD

cause i can tell you i only know a handful of players that as scum will try to demolish an existing consensus to enforce their own. I am not even one of those. That takes a lot of effort skill and finesse I don't have.

When did furtive demolish the consensus this game?

[Black]

You stole my way of saying Noted? Noted

You were the first person in history to say Noted? Noted

[Black]

WAIT IS SOMEONE GOING TO SCUMREAD ME FINALLY IN THIS GAME!!!!!!!

Lycan is too late. I already caught the furtive/fire/ari team

[Black]

cakez wagon seems to have lost momentum without him really doing anything?

post reads

Can you?

[Black]

alisae - still scummy but not gonna get lynched today so

Actually I think you're on to something here. Your post here got overshadowed by the avatar swap and then the whole Cakez thing but you made valid points

Ali's response is pretty meh and then she omgus votes you here

VOTE: Alisae

[Black]

Can we hear those reads Ali? They came early on in #316 when you townread 8 people but we haven't had much since other than some scummy bandwagon votes

[Black]

Yes red ya heard me.

That list was pure waffle

Do you have an updated version of #497?

[Black]

That's a town post by VP Baltar. Behavioral read and I realize the fault in it but I'm trusting my gut on this one

[Black]

Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner

[Black]

cakez wagon seems to have lost momentum without him really doing anything?

post reads

Can you?

I'm disinterested in this game and I feel like I don't rly know much of anything currently and also my motivation to really read the last few pages has been literally slim to none. I'm fully committed to playing black.

I'm not sure I trust your opinion if you don't really know much of anything and have just been skimming the game. You said you will re-read it though so I'll be looking forward to that when you get the time

you ask for reads but instead you would rather engage with that and not the reads you asked for?
ok

I should be allowed to respond to things in the order I choose. I just so happened to find your sudden suspicion of me interesting. And the progression was fast.

I was in your towncore a few minutes ago > you move me to town > you question my votes and phrasing > you threaten to vote for me? > you say I'm playing like a wolf > you get upset and question my ability to play mafia...

I won't tunnel on you, but for someone who is just skimming and needs to re-read, you seem to have an awfully good read on the person that just voted for you

[Black]

That's scum behavior. You have 100+ posts in this game, pushing wagons and instigating, yet you "don't know what's going on" and you need to re-read?

[Black]

I'm ignoring the hostility. I don't vibe with that type of stuff at all tbh

[Black]

post is a wolf post

My post was accurate. You have all this time to post and no time to read? I'm not buying it

[Black]

you don't want to be right bro you just want to make pushes that look good

I want to catch scum. I have fought my own biases and not tunneled on anyone this whole game. My "pushes" are constantly adapting with everything that goes on in the game, and they definitely haven't looked good because a lot of it is behavioral and I don't feel like I really know anyone

I don't want to tunnel on you, but you seem really focused on me now over just a vote and an ask for reads. I feel like I have no choice to respond when you hyper comment like this

[Black]

I need to get some rest now. This progression is still the scummiest thing I've seen in this game

I was in your towncore a few minutes ago > you move me to just town > you question my votes and phrasing > you threaten to vote for me? > you say I'm playing like a wolf > you get upset and question my ability to play mafia...

[Black]

I came back to read this after some fresh air. I'm really confused why town!Alisae would get this upset over a vote. I don't think I deserved to be treated that way. It's cool if you think I'm scum for voting you but why the anger? Why the personal jabs at my playstyle and intelligence? That's what doesn't make sense to me.

I'm having a hard time coming up with reasons why town!Ali would react this way. But I really hope I'm wrong about you, I really do. If you're scum!Ali and this is how you treated me, I'm not sure if I can ever forget that

My intentions are never to upset people when I vote for them. I hope moving forward we can play the game without the extra hatred and anger involved

[Black]

I have shown respect and been courteous to all of you. I expect the same in return

[Black]

I'm really confused why town!Alisae would get this upset over a vote.

I don't think your framing of what occurred is accurate.

Your vote occurred here at 1345 - she didn't begin getting visibly upset until after you began to interact with her on pages 56-57.

That's not what happened. Ali got upset and personal before I called her scum. Here's the exact sequence of comments...

alisae - still scummy but not gonna get lynched today so

Actually I think you're on to something here. Your post here got overshadowed by the avatar swap and then the whole Cakez thing but you made valid points

Ali's response is pretty meh and then she omgus votes you here

VOTE: Alisae

cakez wagon seems to have lost momentum without him really doing anything?

post reads

Can you?

I'm disinterested in this game and I feel like I don't rly know much of anything currently and also my motivation to really read the last few pages has been literally slim to none. I'm fully committed to playing black.

But sure ig
misty klick peta furtive fire red ari black towncore
want to throw in asri and vp in there as well

lycanfire csf taly mt gimli cakez is the leftovers feel like my tr on gimli expired
only reason mt is in there because their point about me with like "why are you thinking about this so much" is pretty bad and I think she might recognize that to a degree because they even say so themselves they don't really have a reason to suspect me they just do. Everyone donowalled me when it came to my MT remark in my 1st real post so like...

Like I've read but it's not really reading it's skimming.
Either way I'm just super putting this game on the backburner until I feel like getting into it then I'll just re-read everything.
I kind of just don't really care at all so I'm just lurking and only really sticking around during the periods of time which I'm posting in

Actually I think I wanna take black out of my towncore maybe it's town but likely idunno they oculd be a wolf playing the game they are, they've had pretty bad votes so far ig but maybe they're just trying to see what sticks idunno

like guy throws around OMGUS around all of the time and just seems to vote people who do that

like if I voted black right now he would probably turbo tunnel onto me because omgus

Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner

brief pause because you said this^ is the post that might have triggered her. She responded perfectly calm and reasonable to this:

I think if ur a wolf it's something you would do!

you ask for reads but instead you would rather engage with that and not the reads you asked for?
ok

like if ur town you are fucking awful at identifying the things that wolves actually do.

like if ur town you are fucking awful at identifying the things that wolves actually do.

don't be rude ali.
black is a smart cookie

Anyone who throws out OMGUS and thinks it's actually going to lead to something productive is a fool

I don't even get what makes you think he's smart in the first place guy has not added any contribution that couldn't come from a wolf and they've been voting town all game

another brief pause. scum!Ali would know I've only voted town here. Could be a slip, but also just poor wording

i don't like a lot of his recent takes but i think he is doing decent analysis from beginning.
If he is dumb i declare i am dumber

you call it decent I call it nothing

Here Ali says my analysis has been nothing all game? But I was in her towncore? Her flip on me is odd. And all of the above was

before

she got extra upset when I called her scum. This whole chain above was her reacting to my vote and my question about her not liking my vote.

After this is when she gets extra upset about me bringing up her post count and I don't really use anything after this against her because I can tell it's fueled by emotion

Aristeia - have you played with town!Alisae a lot? Is this behavior you recognize from her? I might go back and skim some of her town games to see if its OOC later but it would be easier to hear from personal experience first

[Black]

Regarding omgus - I use the term very loosely and pretty much anytime I suspect someone is reacting weird to a vote. I never vote on omgus alone because it's a behavioral read and until I learn more behaviors and the meta of this message board, I can't trust those suspicions. They have to be combined with other reasons I think you're scum

[Black]

he's never turned around on me - he said if the day ends rn he wants to vote for me or some other person i forgot by now

It was furtive, then you, but I haven't been so sure of you since my early read. No one else agrees that your ISO or behavior is off, and a lot of people are putting you high up on their town lists. This isn't enough to alleviate all of my suspicions of you but it's enough to not pursue it at this time

[Black]

Hi friends!

About to head in to work, read a tiny bit a while ago but cant do much until tonight.

If there's something pressing, or something that you want me to look at feel free to make me aware.

My plan is to read 10 pages and I guess cakes iso since they are leading wagon.

Welcome! Take your time. This game kinda blew up

[Black]

Klick; VP Baltar; MT

Gimli; redFF; SirCakez; Asri

petapan; Lycan; Taly; Mistyx

CSF; Firebringer; Aristeia

Alisae; furtiveglance

My attempt at a list. I’m unclear on a lot of people in the middle and the tiers surrounding the middle. I’m semi-confident in my top tier but less confident about my bottom tier. Right now I'm most comfortable voting Alisae or furtive.

[Black]

SIRCAKEZ [6]: Aristeia, Alisae, Klick, Cat Scratch Fever, Asri Teroka, redFF

I promise you there is scum in this wagon

how are you so certain on this? who are the scum here?

big wagon with thin reasoning behind, early trenders are towny but the late people in it are sketchy slots, seems you're getting piled on

do you seriously need other people to tell you there's scum in your wagon? do you think you're being wagoned by six townies instead? I'm perplexed you're picking this post of mine, out of all the posts I made, to be sus on. if you're town you must certainly share my line of reasoning here??? like

Good post, with good points. I too think there's at least one scum on the Cakez wagon. Wbu Cakez?

[Black]

Klick's votes so far

Could you elaborate a bit? Which votes specifically, and what do you find scummy about the patterns

[Black]

I think Cakez is approaching the game pretty openly and don't agree with this read at all

Doesn't Klick's read include him admitting that Cakez is playing openly though? Sounds like you two agree on Cakez playstyle

Basically, I think my Cakez townread was poor.

Early in Cakez's posting I thought his forwardness and willingness to bring a lot of opinions to the table was towny.

I think this was biased somewhat by comparing him to Lycanfire in my head and thinking,

'well Cakez is being pretty free with his reads and Lycan isn't doing anything so if there's a scum between them it's more likely to be Lycan.'

Which isn't a well-thought-out point.
In my last reads list I brought Cakez down a bit because I kinda realised this but still wanted to give credit to my initial gut ping.

I think ultimately I townread what you are scumreading. I ISO'd Cakez late last night and felt pretty similarly to you, that what he was doing could pretty easily be scum projecting false confidence. I don't feel strongly about it but with you saying it's his scum meta I kinda want to sheep you on it.

[Black]

why don't you search for scum inside your wagon instead of on one of the only people who are actually townreading you?

wtf? this post is scummy af. you dont get towncred just for defending me

okay you do you

but let me go back to this question: do you think your wagon has scum in it? if yes, who?

Cakez can you answer this

[Black]

IDK if cakez' push on me now is towny

It does seem like he's tunneling you a bit but I still get townreads from him

I'm more curious in his thoughts about Alisae's towncore, because I had issues with that as well

[Black]

Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner

what were you hoping to acheive by making this post?

what was its goal?

I was shocked at the way she reacted to my vote and wanted her to expand on that

[Black]

Aristeia - have you played with town!Alisae a lot? Is this behavior you recognize from her?

Whatcha thinking Ari?

[Black]

which post were you shocked by ?

Her moving me from towncore to likely wolf in the span of a couple minutes

[Black]

which post were you shocked by ?

Also the personal attacks and jabs threw me off. Made it seem like my vote bothered her and I wanted her to clarify

[Black]

Aristeia - have you played with town!Alisae a lot? Is this behavior you recognize from her?

Whatcha thinking Ari?

I have seen her be emotional as both alignments - its not something I use to read her.

Thank you for the insight

[Black]

which post were you shocked by ?

Her moving me from towncore to likely wolf in the span of a couple minutes

I don't understand why this is shocking to you.

It didn't feel like townie progression to me. Idk what else to tell you. Why are you tunneling on that comment?

[Black]

because I don't understand the point of your post and it conflicts with your version of events later where you say you didn't mean to upset her and you treated her with respect. I'm trying to understand how this is "respectful" in your POV.

"Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner"

feels very antagonistic to me and I don't think it fits with your stated intentions at that point in time.

Fair enough. I didn't mean any disrespect with this comment, I just wanted more insight on Ali's reaction and I wasn't sure if I should engage since she said she didn't know what was going on and that she would have to re-read

[Black]

It didn't feel like townie progression to me. Idk what else to tell you.

Yes my point is that it shouldn't shock you if someone you are accusing of being wolf does something that is not townie because that's what wolves are supposed to do?

Before Ali's reaction I was leaning wolf. I wasn't sure, but I thought red made good points earlier in the game and the way they were dismissed by Ali was kinda sus to me. So I voted and asked for reads. Her following reaction shocked me. I wasn't expecting her to shit on me and the way I play mafia, or my intelligence

[Black]

ok but where are the personal attacks prior to 1379?

I've reread that section and I don't really see how she's shitting on you.

1373 917pm: Ali responds to your request for reads by putting you in her towncore with a large number of other names, she states how she feels about others as well. It feels like she's just dumping where everyone is in her mind onto the page. She states she's disinterested in the game and not motivated but she's also promising to be committed to playing

1374 918pm: she states she's sort of skimming and not deep reading, she states she's putting this game on the "back burner" because when she finds the motivation she'll really deepread everything.

1376 923pm: she says she wants to take black out of towncore, says maybe black is town but the gameplay could be wolf because the votes are pretty bad ig - i dunno.

1377 925pm: she states black throws around omgus and votes people who do that.

1378 925pm: she states if she voted black right now he would probly turbo tunnel me because omgus.

1379 928pm: Black: "Did my vote bother you? I thought you were going to put the game on the back burner"


like the most insulting thing you could maybe squint at is 1377/1378 which is her saying you like to use omgus a lot?

I've already explained my thoughts about our interaction in this post. It's fine if you don't see it as her being rude to me. That's the way I see it

[Black]

which comment from her prior to 1379 did you see as rude/personal?

Can we not? This interaction last night took a lot out of me and I'm not sure why you feel the need to tunnel on it and relive it. Why is this all you can think about? Do you think I'm scum? Please make a case if you do. I'm tired of talking about Alisae being rude to me

[Black]

which comment from her prior to 1379 did you see as rude/personal?

Can we not? This interaction last night took a lot out of me and I'm not sure why you feel the need to tunnel on it and relive it. Why is this all you can think about? Do you think I'm scum? Please make a case if you do. I'm tired of talking about Alisae being rude to me

I am asking you because I don't know what your alignment is. I've been thinking about other things too, it just happens this was something that stuck in my mind because it's somewhat prominent.

That's fair. I've been thinking about it a lot too obviously but I don't want to tunnel on her so I try to push it out

I don't mind the questioning if you're just trying to gauge my alignment but I'm just not sure what else to say about it

[Black]

Not this again. Red why do you even bother lol

[Black]

This one feels Gimli is fine, Tweeter of the Morn.

why

Why is Sir of the Cakez fine?

lol, yall realize this slot is going to have to go at some point right?

Meh. It's probably a town slot. Keeping Asri around doesn't do us any harm, even if it doesn't do us much good either

[Black]

Like Ali's town core had like Red and Mistyx?? Like wtf?

If you're wondering who the scum is on your wagon...

[Black]

This one thinks you're mean too!

Do you have a towncore?

[Black]

This one shares how they feel, and speak when they speak. Mean people demanding otherwise will get nowhere with this one.

I didn't demand it, and I

think

I'm on your good side now, so what's up?

[Black]

Black isn't mean, that's just not a question this one is going to answer.

Okay

[Black]

Hmm this one still isn't sure how they feel about Black having them as green. This one feels better about this? This seems organic from you, and this one feels good on that?

Sorry Asri, I'm lost in your riddles. Are you talking about VPB? I have a strong townread on him mainly due to his tone. And this post just screams town to me, idk. He has made some weird actions since then, like voting for Cakez who I still lean town on, and suggesting we "get rid of the problem early" when referring to you. I lean town on you even though you're one of the more frustrating players I've played with, and I don't think getting rid of you early benefits the town at all. VPB's willingness to vote you out even in a situation where you're probably town doesn't sit right with me

I'll have to catch up on the last few pages and post more thoughts when I get the chance

[Black]

Because you had quite a lot of players listed as idk/eh, (and otherwise didn't say much about anyone), it made me think that 1) You are scum who therefore doesn't have real thoughts about other players, and 2) that you are avoiding giving reads on certain slots because they are your partners.

This is so weird to me. Red had 4 players listed as idk. That equates to "a lot" ? Like how do you look at red's list and come to this conclusion. Or did you really think his list was trash because he had you leaning scum?

[Black]

But then they kind of tunnel on their reads in spite of expressing uncertainty in their ability to read people - as in, I don't think their reads have changed all that much in a while (I think they're still scumreading furtive/ari/fire? they've recently added alisae). I didn't really see them engaging with Morning Tweet's response to their case on furtive, which I thought raised several good points, or with Ari's points on Cakez, which I also thought were good.

I disagree. I feel like I've been careful

not

to tunnel in on certain people. I do still scumread furtive but I haven't pushed the case because it was all behavioral. I think his whole tone changed after I voted for him and he hasn't done anything town in my eyes since then. We do have similar reads on a couple people though. I haven't seen anything from Fire or Ari that have changed my mind about them being potential scum. And to me Alisae doesn't post from a town perspective at all.

But I understand that my reads are crap. I thought it would be easier to read people as the game went on but that isn't the case. I don't feel comfortable asking other people to join me in my votes because I don't really have a strong case for anyone. I don't like any of the bandwagon votes (Cakez, redff) and I won't be joining them as I think they are probably town. So for now I'm just in my own little corner with my suspicions and I'm just watching things play out, trying to get anything useful out of this

[Black]

Regarding MT's response on my furtive case. I just noticed she commented inside my spoiler tags. I legit missed that the first time and thought the only thing she had to say about it was "mild case my ass" haha

[Black]

Regarding MT's response on my furtive case. I just noticed she commented inside my spoiler tags. I legit missed that the first time and thought the only thing she had to say about it was "mild case my ass" haha

LMFAO that didn't occur to me to probablymention the response, I've been on a crazxxy spoiler tag spree this game. My bad

Nah that's not your fault. I know to check the spoiler tags now

I don't have much to say about your response to the furtive case. You bring up great points, some of which I already considered (hence the "mild" part of the case... it was a flimsy read but I felt like I was onto something at the time). I need to do a better job of explaining why I could be wrong in these type's of posts. The thoughts are in my head but I need to include them for clarity

[Black]

. I haven't seen anything from Fire or Ari that have changed my mind about them being potential scum

What from Ari is scummy again

For me it was mostly the tone of her early game posts. I didn't like a lot of what she posted but none of it seemed inherently AI. It just felt like she was pushing wagons and such without much substance. Her content got better once she got called out for it but I really didn't like the Cakez vote or the wagon, so that kind of added to my read. Some of my suspicion is tied to her interactions with other players I consider kinda scummy, but I have to check that bias because one town flip in my series of scum dominos makes the whole thing fall apart

[Black]

Yeah, she leans slightly scum to me based mostly on gut feeling. But it's a weak suspicion and kind of why I'm not comfortable with an Ari vote today

[Black]

and according to my experience day 1 town eliminations are more likely to end result in town win than day 1 scum eliminations.

You got any stats or anecdotal evidence to back this up or is this guesswork? Like can you point to specific games where this is the case? Seems like such an odd thing to say

So like, as long as its not an obv town. Fine with a compromise.
Just point and ill go there.

This feels like you're giving up to me. I understand this is supposed to be a compromise but why is it better to vote for a null read over someone you think is scum? Just to end the day? Idk, I think even though the day is dragging on, we are still getting tons of content and stuff to work off of later in the game. Potentially cutting further D1 interactions just to progress the game feels weird

[Black]

you will have to take my ancedotal evidence as i am too lazy to pull up the evidence of this. I did an analysis like a year or 2 ago based on all my completed games of a hunch that day 1 eliminations don't matter to end condition. My conclusion was like out of the 150+ games i looked at (yes i played too many games), if the game was a day 1 town elimination, it was around 70% that the game would end with a town win.

Ok fair enough. Crazy stat. I wish you had put this in an excel sheet or something lol

Regarding further interactions, I guess I'm just thinking that any and all interactions are beneficial. Every post can be used as evidence when building a case down the line. Compromising D1 just to end it feels weird to me but I can see the logic behind it and it isn't necessary wolf indicative, just behavior I don't think benefits the town much

[Black]

Out of that list, I get the strongest TR from MT. Take her out

[Black]

Because you had quite a lot of players listed as idk/eh, (and otherwise didn't say much about anyone), it made me think that 1) You are scum who therefore doesn't have real thoughts about other players, and 2) that you are avoiding giving reads on certain slots because they are your partners.

This is so weird to me. Red had 4 players listed as idk. That equates to "a lot" ? Like how do you look at red's list and come to this conclusion. Or did you really think his list was trash because he had you leaning scum?

Furtive what's up with this?

[Black]

Because you had quite a lot of players listed as idk/eh, (and otherwise didn't say much about anyone), it made me think that 1) You are scum who therefore doesn't have real thoughts about other players, and 2) that you are avoiding giving reads on certain slots because they are your partners.

This is so weird to me. Red had 4 players listed as idk. That equates to "a lot" ? Like how do you look at red's list and come to this conclusion. Or did you really think his list was trash because he had you leaning scum?

Furtive what's up with this?

I ignored you because I thought your question was rhetorical, and still kind of do.

The list was bad, do you disagree? Maybe I exaggerated with 'a lot' but I didn't see a lot of thought behind it in general

I mean he put more thought into it than either of the lists you posted this game. You just kinda throw people in categories. At least he had some explanation

Sorry for ruining the game by ending it so early because my reads are that good

{Datisi}

{FireKinger, SirCakez, Taly, VP Baltar}

{Alisae, Aristeia, Gimli, Morning Tweet, Mistyx}

{Asri Teroka, Lycanfire, petapan}

{Black, CSF}

{Klick, redFF}

{My new avatar}

Black could have endgamed in a historic win but I had to stop that

Sorry for ruining the game by ending it so early because my reads are that good

{Datisi}

{FireKinger, SirCakez, Taly, VP Baltar}

{Alisae, Aristeia, Gimli, Morning Tweet, Mistyx}

{Asri Teroka, Lycanfire, petapan}

{Black, CSF}

{Klick, redFF}

{My new avatar}

Black could have endgamed in a historic win but I had to stop that

You can go up to null, as can CSF actually.
All 3 of the null tier move down.
From the townlean tier, Alisae and Aristeia can form the new null
Top tier remains, add in Mistyxx

My new avatar goes down

[Black]

Hi new people :3

[Black]

Black who are the top 5 most interesting slots in the game. By that I don't mean scummiest, but rather which slots are most important for figuring out everyone else.

Hmmm. Off the top of my head and in no particular order

FB
Alisae
Cakez
redFF
furtive

Seeing the alignments of these slots would at least help me out a lot

[Black]

Any reason why? I've been trying to think in terms of keystone reads lately, so what ways do those slots fit together with others in the game?

These 5 have plenty of interactions with the rest of the playerlist and I think flipping them will give us a lot to work with

[Black]

Just people that will give me a lot of clarity in regards to my own intuitions and reads

I also want to throw in Klick and ActionDan because they are in a hood with Cakez. The hood isn't guaranteed to have scum inside but it would be nice to know if there is one or not

[Black]

TSQ, Black's progression on me has been entirely reactive

I'm telling on them

Wait until after he scumreads you to make your defense

[Black]

this game is crazy

[Black]

What case on gimli? Or are you saying this is you making a case? What do you think his motivations for only picking on furtive were? Like this is the kind of thing I like to zero in on because it looks like scum hunting, but it isn't. I fundamentally don't understand what you are saying is scummy here. What is the advantage for scum of "only focusing on furtive?"

"Point" would have been a better word to use. There was no case it was just a good point. I come from a place where the RVS is pure fluff and no actual reads or AI stuff really happens. Occasionally yes but generally anyone who tries to make a case for scum based on page 1 or 2 gives me bad vibes, like trying to do too much to seem relevant, trying to get a wagon going early, etc. Townies can act this way too but Gimli said he plays mafia "very stupidly" and once I looked at his persistence with furtive in a stupid!wolf perspective it made me raise my eyebrows

[Black]

Good luck getting anything out of Asri

[Black]

VPB was my biggest townread and that is well documented throughout this thread. Shea's entrance and discussion so far has only made me more confident about my read

[Black]

This reads like you're interested in shutting down the conversation I was having with Asri. Why? Or is that not accurate?

Oh not at all. If you continue to read the thread you'll see why I don't have much hope in getting anything out of Asri. I would love it if you could somehow be the "Asri whisperer" and are able to get more from them

[Black]

Asri doesn't need anyone else to shut down the conversation for them. They have done this to themselves literally all game

[Black]

Asri has been more open in the last 2 days than they have all game I will say. I'm not sure why the sudden change, but yeah, Asri's refusal to elaborate on many of their opinions has been a talking point throughout the game

[Black]

Don’t remember vpb being ur strongest townread but I’ll take ur word for it

You don't have to take my word for it. It's in my iso

[Black]

You underestimate my laziness

Dude your iso is 2 pages now wtf xD

Can you copy/paste the player list and give us a couple thoughts on each player?

[Black]

You underestimate my laziness

Dude your iso is 2 pages now wtf xD

Can you copy/paste the player list and give us a couple thoughts on each player?

me: i am very lazy
Black: Here is a bunch of work to do
Me: >.<

i think i have given a thought to every player in a game.
If you gave me like 2-3 names u want more amazing firebringer insight too. I am more ammendable to than this general request u gave

I kinda just wanted a nice condensed list of your thoughts. Is it really that much work to do? I mean you already have your reads in your head right? what's the extra work consist of?

Wolf!FB would have to go back and make sure they don't contradict themselves and try not to give too much in regards to his teammates but what is the extra work that town!FB would have to do here? Maybe I'm missing it

[Black]

this game is crazy

I suddenly decided you're definitely mafia

If this is serious then why aren't you making a case against me or voting for me?

[Black]

Your presence is disconcerting

VOTE: Black

Finally

[Black]

Sorry FB I should have made myself more clear. You are the most active person in the game and I was feeling really lazy (you did this to me) and didn't want to go through 2 pages of iso. I just wanted a condensed version of your reads all in one nice post with a bow wrapped around it. I don't expect anyone to do what I ask but it was worth a shot, and if you don't feel like doing it then that's perfectly fine

[Black]

I don't want to know what you think of 2-3 people. I want to know your thoughts on the whole player list

[Black]

Sadge

[Black]

Black do you want to Whisper

I don't know what that means

[Black]

I don't want to know what you think of 2-3 people. I want to know your thoughts on the whole player list

Fine. i can give u my boring reads list but im not going to even add a sentence explanation because ur so lazy and u don't want THE VERY INTERESTING ANALYSIS I COULD PROVIDE U

Uber Town - Aristeia
Strong Town - Black, Thestatusquo, Petapan, Klick, SirCakez
Very Likely Town - Furtiveglance, Gimli, Asri Teroka, Mornin Tweet

No Strong Opinion - Alisae, Fireisredsir, redFF
Scum Lean - Cat Scratch Fever, Mistyx, Action Dan

Lmao. The whole point of the exercise was to get a sentence out of you for each player. But fine. I'll take what I can get

[Black]

Thank you for semi-cooperating FB <3

[Black]

It seems VPB was posting from a town perspective all game. It's the vibe I got and it's mostly gut feeling as are most of my reads

Shea - that jump was referencing VPB being down to vote Asri regardless if they are town or not. I don't really play that way so it caught me off guard. I like to vote for who I think is scum

You see it as playing both sides but I'm just trying not to tunnel on anyone, good or bad, and I wanted to point out that even though I townread VPB he has done some things that make me less sure about my gut feeling

[Black]

Others may disagree but I read 1350 as the most town post in the game at the time. It felt incredibly genuine. It was one of the biggest factors in my gut feeling regarding VPB

[Black]

maybe later. I got to get back to work

Hmm. Ok. I'll be looking forward to that analysis tbh

[Black]

I don't want this to be a situation where FB leaves for awhile and comes back to ignore the question

[Black]

if it gets u to scumread me black. I will 100% ignore the question

I already scumread you so you have to answer

[Black]

But u will scumread me harder if i ignore right?
I mean a true townie answers questions or so i am told

It won't make me feel any better about your alignment

[Black]

i'm curious what do you think the effect of jabbing at fb like this is?

how does it help you read him? How do you expect town and scum firebringer to react differently?

I'm not trying to gauge his alignment by interacting with him right here. I just want to get more analysis out of him

[Black]

Like what is the purpose of getting analysis if you don't think it will help you read alignment?

I mean all analysis helps reading alignment right? Whether it's not or on D3 looking back at interactions? I just meant that by "jabbing at FB like this" I don't have any ulterior motives. I just want him to give more analysis

[Black]

Now*

[Black]

Ok so it will help you read his alignment, so stop dodging my real question:

How do you expect town firebringer to react differently from scum firebringer?

I have no clue. I'm still trying to figure people out. I've been here a week

[Black]

Wasted page top tbh

[Black]

honestly i find it useless the way black is approaching this.
i don't see point in asking for peoples insight into players unless ur trying to look for the genuineness/trying to solve them immediately now with whatever insight they pour into the game.

But black can play this how black wants. Its kind of a playstyle thing.

You don't see the benefit in asking for a scumread's thoughts about everyone else? Like yeah you could trick me now in the moment but that gets harder to pull off as people on your list start flipping

[Black]

Also getting your analysis could help me with my gut feeling about you. You're hard af to read and my gut feeling is flimsy af

[Black]

FB go to work bro

[Black]

If he's hard af to read why do you seem so certain that he's scum?

That's your perception. I'm not certain he's scum

[Black]

I think my wording has been awkward but basically I'm just trying to ask what the hell are you doing and why the hell do you think this is a good way of doing it and also I can't help but notice that the way you're doing it makes it harder for me to sort the slot I was trying to sort which is what was happening before you jumped in.

I think there was some confusion on my part with your initial comment of "what is the purpose of jabbing FB here". I thought you were asking why I was trying to get more analysis out of him

And I'm sorry for stepping in but it has been a common theme this game of people ignoring things that I find might lead to useful discussion

[Black]

Is FB the poster boy for this forum? Why do I feel like he's the main character

[Black]

Is FB the poster boy for this forum? Why do I feel like he's the main character

not sure what you mean

Kind of an unrelated question to the game. I hope that's not against the rules. He just seems like the one of the main people on the forum idk

[Black]

It does feel kinda shitty to lim ActionDan without giving him much of a chance but I do kinda think he's just scum

Why rush to lim him? Even if you are sure he's scum...wouldn't letting him talk about stuff be beneficial?

[Black]

Is FB the poster boy for this forum? Why do I feel like he's the main character

our mod is the main character

That's fair

[Black]

It does feel kinda shitty to lim ActionDan without giving him much of a chance but I do kinda think he's just scum

Why rush to lim him? Even if you are sure he's scum...wouldn't letting him talk about stuff be beneficial?

I agree with you?
I'm not currently voting Dan for basically that reason

I see. My bad. I think I misunderstood your stance

[Black]

It does feel kinda shitty to lim ActionDan without giving him much of a chance but I do kinda think he's just scum

Why rush to lim him? Even if you are sure he's scum...wouldn't letting him talk about stuff be beneficial?

Stuff like?

Everything. Every post, opinion, interaction, argument, etc can be used later on. Ending the day now gives us none of that

[Black]

It does feel kinda shitty to lim ActionDan without giving him much of a chance but I do kinda think he's just scum

Why rush to lim him? Even if you are sure he's scum...wouldn't letting him talk about stuff be beneficial?

Stuff like?

Everything. Every post, opinion, interaction, argument, etc can be used later on. Ending the day now gives us none of that

And alerting Dan does?

I don't follow. I don't think I'm telling Dan anything he doesn't already know

[Black]

semi off topic
black u should consider signing up for team mafia.
If you think this is wild that should be a fun time for u.

Funny you say that right now because I was just looking over that thread. Looks fun tbh but I'm not sure if my life can handle another MS mafia game rn

[Black]

I will not be sharing with Ari and Fireisred because they were mean to me. Anyone else can have a slice.

What kind of pie are we talking here. I think I might be able to read you based on what pizza toppings you like

[Black]

Hmmm.

Thinking about whether to take a slice or not? Go for it. He offered

[Black]

i stole a slice when u werent looking

Wolf post btw. You didn't have to steal he would have just given you one

[Black]

its much likely not going to kick of for at least another month to 2 months. you got time

If this game ends in less than a month I will be shocked. But ok I will strongly consider it

[Black]

its much likely not going to kick of for at least another month to 2 months. you got time

If this game ends in less than a month I will be shocked. But ok I will strongly consider it

I asked the scum team if they could politely night kill u so u have free time.
I got ur back friendo

Ty bb <3

Is your name Brian