Community Redux | Postgame

[ActionDan]

Hi!

Currently working from home and will have a bit more time tonight. As a preview my townreads are close to Deas's post 144 (and you can add DeasV to them) with the caveat of Frogster/MT being lower, and Herta being in a category whose elim I would not cry over.

My preferred elimination today is bell by a longshot. And if not Furtive.

VOTE: Bell

Bad posts, Bad votes, and what essentially appears to be flailing / buying time with a PR claim with deniability. I do not understand why anyone is considering anything but this (Much less Meuh for example).

[ActionDan]

@ActionDan, could you elaborate on what you mean by deniability

155 and 156 is sufficient to claim plausible deniability that you outright claimed being a power role. That is my meaning. I interpret 239 to be more of the same. As I'm sure you're well aware, people have a natural inclination to ease up pressure after their target claims a PR because they hope it might be useful in the night or at least can pin down one's actions in utilizing it to aid in scumhunting the person with the PR. This happened with 4 votes on you so this was an attempt (successfully so) to disassemble the budding wagon. The consequence of which enabled you to avoid posting / scumhunting in thread until just now where you've shown up with a renewed vote on you. Likewise, I'm not impressed regarding the justification of the vote and current read on Flavia. In a low volume content game its a blessing they are such an easy townread. They have a join date of 11/1/2022 and clearly act like it. They are trying to interpret exact flavor/verbiage literally and have repeated it in multiple posts (see 57 , 59). Insistence they are scummy is willful ignorance of what is plain as day.

Furtive's scumread is based on the vote in post 116, when belies a lack of self awareness since if anything in this thread could be interpreted as a traitor crumb its 37 , and 40. Disclaimer: I think traitor hunting is useless blather to be avoided but if someone is seriously on that boat then I'd expect some introspection; a lack of it makes me think the vote on DeasVail was made with malign intent.

@Furtive, I don't hate your vote on MT but don't find it in any way compelling. Non substantive posting is a dime a dozen in this thread, is there any other reason we should "not ignore" your vote, why do you think MT vote on KT was suspicious?

[ActionDan]

I want to add I'm somewhat sympathetic to votes on Andres but very much joined this game to play with him not elim him. It's a pity he's not here, I'd like to sample his posting like a fine wine.

[ActionDan]

I would agree going against Flavia is a bizarre choice for scum. Still I try not to 2nd guess by pointing out refuge in audacity is a thing.

@PP why is your vote on Meuh

[ActionDan]

While there are several slots not posting that much 'substantive' stuff, Herta is sort of openly memeing, Andres acknowledged it and said they'd read up, Flavia claimed Miller in a way and I was a Miller last time so that could be true. I feel like MT's vote on KT was more suspicious because it wasn't as self-aware as other people's posts

Besides, it's one thing to ignore me but to then call ME sus.... that's dodgy

I didn't sus you for your vote, but I would like to understand it. I'm not sure what you mean by "not self-aware" as other votes/posts; can you clarify?

votecount was wrong so I thought I was making equal wagons but then there was no other wagon that would have been competing so I left it

why are you curious about my vote specifically?

Your Iso is bereft, you aren't a townread of mine, and your vote is sitting on someone who is one of the townier people in this game imo. I wish for some accountability for it. I believe you've yet to provide any reasoning as to why you think Meuh is scummy once today. I can't parse your thought process above, which wagons are we taking about here? if you're referencing 220 since you switch votes right after were you trying to run up someone to match KT's 4 votes?

Cut by votes. Okay that's nice

[ActionDan]

Meuh are you claiming vig who shot Andres/MariaR?

[ActionDan]

VOTE: Bell

Good vote IMO, I don't trust him either. Bell + Meuh makes sense.

Both are equally good but I’m thinking of switching because 191 is giving me last game scum!Koka vibes.

VOTE: Meuh

And if Bell is scum here, his team will likely bus. He hates playing scum. I was buddies with him in Pooky v FL and he begged us in the scum pt to let him die.

~Nancy

Meuh and Kitty are good guesses for now.

VOTE: Meuh

You understand Bell was a traitor yes?

[ActionDan]

Meuh and Kitty are good guesses for now.

VOTE: Meuh

I think 265 was a large part of killing Bell
Like look at the shift towards limming Bell, I had a strong role in making it happen. My vote is what made Bell officially the leading wagon and removed momentum from Andres, which was the second biggest wagon

You and Penguin can enjoy credit for that, but the wagonomics of the Bell wagon don't actually mean much. Even the other traitor might have an interest in eliminating Bell if say Andres/MariaR is scum. So the best we can do is agree that You/PP aren't the other traitor if MariaR is town.

[ActionDan]

I still think you are town js, frogster us just nuts

[ActionDan]

This PM doesn't say that the delegation knew that Bell was an Attache, so I'll assume that they didn't. Which makes VCA slightly useless

Correct, though I'm almost positive the redacted ability = knowledge of other traitor

[ActionDan]

Not that I'm aware of, but it makes a lot of sense to me. Granted im making a couple of implicit assumptions like another traitor existing, and that traitors role pm being a carbon copy. Usually in traitor games there's just 1, but I think it would be a nice bone to throw to them considering their inherent weakness and makes for a better game dynamic

[ActionDan]

This is where I'm at

Town - {DeasV, Meuh, Flavia}
Close enough but please post more to confirm - {Titus}
Close enough to close enough - {Tweet}

Massive gap

{Frog}
{Everyone else}

Will need some time to reevaluate the bottom half.

VOTE: MariaR

Pedit: because 2 main scum 1 traitor that gets endgamed is way too weak in this setup

[ActionDan]

:/

NYM / DeasV were the obvious kills imo but oh well. I'm more paranoid now that scum have a redirector

[ActionDan]

Why'd you give me alcohol, ActionDan?

[ActionDan]

Why'd you give me alcohol, ActionDan?

Tis the holiday season after all, please enjoy your alcohol

[ActionDan]

I want Dan to post exactly three more times and then not talk for the rest of the phase unless it's to me about things we find cute.

As much as I love you and love cute bl comics I do need a bit better than a meuh vote. I will admit that the below quote makes a lot more sense to me than it should. Still very easy to hide in this game by being awful. And as you may notice I'm not voting PP and won't today. It could be anyone's guess as to why~~

Actually, why is PenguinPower town? @MariaR

I say this in the nicest way possible:

If PP is a wolf they suck.
And PP isn't a player I associate with being bad

[ActionDan]

Ah sanity.
UNVOTE:

Will read on train

[ActionDan]

I'm not able to make a proper post until sometime tonight.

This post will just be aimed at MariaR

Firstly congrats I think you're town, I don't agree with everything but I like the way you're thinking, mostly.

Wrt Meuh, why do you think they are scum precisely? I understand that the claim of babysitter was poorly executed and that such a claim could be utilized as a reason the slot stays alive. That said it's just as plausible (imo more so) that it's over eager oversharing stemming from setting up a crumb and action from a D1 post. As for their day play I agree with MT that it simply looks transparently town to me. There are things that make no sense, like a town bell read from page 1 but I can forgive the small stuff. Post 64 is a very town post. And meuh never shies away from throwing themselves out there and is not closed off <--- subjective I know but to me traditionally towny.

For PP A) might be a thing. Active lurking a scum trait after all and I as scum employ it when I think I can get away with it especially if I notice others behaving similarly. You might consider this part and parcel of bad play though.

I'm still trying to figure out furtive. His votes, really his MT vote, wasn't bad. I'm not sure he knows why though and trying to pull that from him yesterday when he made it felt like talking in circles

[ActionDan]

I have no need to answer what I am. I'm "loud" if that's what you require. Alcohol is flavor

[ActionDan]

I want to clarify that furtives first DV vote

was

bad

[ActionDan]

You can see all visits to all members of the hotel? That's quite nice. Did herta know that?

[ActionDan]

This does explain the incredible feeling I had that Frog was being as dense as possible D1 to not get NKed. Justified if that powerful a role

[ActionDan]

If you are part of hotel PP did Frog claim I visited you before reveal in thread?

[ActionDan]

Ah OK there goes my last qualm

[ActionDan]

MariaR's recent posting would not suggest someone informed her of the impending guilty though

[ActionDan]

@MOD:

VC if you please.

As much as I do believe there was a redirector on scum team I do not think think it was used in MariaR.

I will be giving out some more alcohol to herta, I think he could use a drink.

[ActionDan]

This may be a good time to talk about cute things.

[ActionDan]

I'm happy to wait until people check in. Though, logically I think it's necessary to Elim MariaR as a traitor might vouch

[ActionDan]

I mean a traitor might take you up on your claim XD

[ActionDan]

It would be very cute though

[ActionDan]

Traitor #2 if you're listening please reply in this thread

"Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
And I think
ActionDan is a cutie too"

[ActionDan]

Nope. (And we know not Flavia because she claimed Miller and that would not be the same role... unless MariaR would like to amend claim with that modifier also :V)

[ActionDan]

It's OK herta you'll be guy that gives everyone alcohol so they begrudgingly accept you.

[ActionDan]

VOTE: MariaR


Remember to please drink responsibly

[ActionDan]

I assume scum shot 3p that lived. Not much else makes sense

[ActionDan]

Well actually I take that back, if herta is dead meuh targeted someone else?

[ActionDan]

Like you protect people, so if you were on herta as it seemed you might be then....

[ActionDan]

When I read old 3p role win con seemed a bit lame. Like pick the winner etc. If it's the same our priority is to Elim 3p asap.

Cut. Oh ok

[ActionDan]

Why did you babysit MariaR instead of use this more vig like one?

[ActionDan]

Must have been awkward to have to use that crumb for its unintended purpose but sure I'm fine with your explanation

[ActionDan]

I assume scum shot 3p that lived. Not much else makes sense

Assuming this is true,

@frog/pp anyone visit in hotel aside from me and meuh?

[ActionDan]

Wouldn't call that a waste of a vig. There's still a lot of chaff in the game

[ActionDan]

@frog/pp anyone visit in hotel aside from me and meuh?

yes

Gotcha OK.

[ActionDan]

Wait what

[ActionDan]

Oh sure vig hit town but still very much disagree with your assessments

[ActionDan]

Frog not scum and very unlikely to be 3p from play around his role imo.

VOTE: Enchant

I'm starting here.

Pedit: that is called a CPR doc in the parlance

[ActionDan]

I don't see why scum kill Herta tbh although it is possible. If scum killed Herta, there's scum in "locktown" players.

More likely scum targeted immune or else untargetable 3p

[ActionDan]

I'll let Mueh answer PP

Titus I highly doubt there are any other protectives aside from meuh, and also doubt one was on you over frog

[ActionDan]

Please reiterate the action you used on MariaR N1 for PPs benefit

[ActionDan]

I don't believe meuh's claim and I'm suspicious AD is buying it so easily.

Meuh seems to be claiming 1shot babysitter and 1 shit CPR doc. That's not really suspicious to me

[ActionDan]

I don't believe meuh's claim and I'm suspicious AD is buying it so easily.

Meuh seems to be claiming 1shot babysitter and 1 shit CPR doc. That's not really suspicious to me

Weird, I don't think that claim sounds believable at all.

OK but why?

[ActionDan]

I don't really get why you can't imagine Mod adding an extra 2 bullet points to a role? Maybe I'm failing to understand very fundamental here. Power of roles so far: mariaR: weak, meuh: strong, frog: very strong

[ActionDan]

I feel like entire town should fullclaim soon regardless. If not today then tomorrow

[ActionDan]

Do you know what a really cool win con would be. 3rd party wins if a team with at at one operator on it survives

It's my headcannon now

[ActionDan]

Meuhs claim is completely and absolutely believable.

And there is also no good reason to think her day play isn't town either.

It would take a lot of me to be convinced otherwise

[ActionDan]

That protective shot, if anything, helps you out XD

[ActionDan]

I will admit this though, based on the power I saw in last game and this one, I think this game already with what's only been claimed as a lot more town power.

[ActionDan]

Multitasking and Daytalk is enabled by default.

Yes

[ActionDan]

Actually maybe I was too quick, other setup did have masons, 2 pseudo cops and a functional watcher that is a fair amount of power

[ActionDan]

I tried to kill her but my gun jammed

Uh......

Please expand on this

[ActionDan]

how the fuck would i know i wasnt playing on night one

Ask the mod.

So many loud roles.

DV's first Andres vote not a bus. Way too critical of a time for that

[ActionDan]

MariaR's predecessor. See end of day 1 for relevancy.

[ActionDan]

Even if he is theres another... I guess we could pretend furtive is too. At this point that's where I'd be voting if not enchant

[ActionDan]

People that i think arent scum or 3p period {Pooky, Frogster, Meuh}

Pool of people I think could be 3p {everyone aside from names above}

Possible Traitor pool {everyone minus Titus, Dv}

Main scum pool {everyone minus Dv, probably Titus, probably PP}

Only taking into mechanics voting history, claims, etc. Not towniness or scuminess

[ActionDan]

You know what it did have? Three abilities.

two active. on both fake claim and real role card

[ActionDan]

I still think its weak sauce to think Meuh is 3p because they technically have claimed 3 active abilities. I love playing the outguessing the mod game but I wouldn't put any equity in this one.

[ActionDan]

I don't think anyone has done or said anything explicitly scummy in recent memory. the three people that I don't think have particularly towny isos are {enchant, Furtive, PP}. I'm voting enchant all things being equal.

As far as this challenge is concerned... I'll wait for the Mod. If real at least I'd think it would elim furtive from the traitor pool

[ActionDan]

You think anything and everything that is potentially suspect about meuh is weaksauce so idrc about your tunnelvision.

Yup

[ActionDan]

ActionDan mentioned VCA is important to his overall reads, can you break down what that is you've been looking at AD?

The only VCA that matters in this game is between pages 10 and 11. I think it's a pretty good argument for DV not scum. He abandons 2 vote wagon on me to vote Andres up to 3. This is when at the time I was only bell voter.

That's the extent I've used VCA this game, though reading those pages reminds me that furtive and pp's responses to my questions were rather poor

[ActionDan]

@Mod VC please

[ActionDan]

No reason not to think town has an operator

Also once again, I disagree with DVs flavor of suspicion of Meuh

[ActionDan]

I would not have claimed operator BTW in case any more still exist. You do not know what could feed into 3p wincon

[ActionDan]

My own libations are making head hurts.

Gladiate being real makes me sad. I'll try not to write off my vote here will reread.

Pooky are you recanting Flavia's Miller claim or no?

[ActionDan]

Frog





ActionDan
furtive


Meuh





Pooky(flavia)
Titus



PenguinPower, DeasVail





Enchant(roden)

Was your read on Furtive always this high, and if not, can you explain your progression?

---

At the time of N2 for all anyone in this thread knew, Meuh was a babysitter that only had the potential to kill. A bit of a harebrained plan to sac the NK to "confirm" a yet unclaimed fakeclaim that doesn't actually confirm it.

[ActionDan]

We aren't no limming here. I think regardless town at this point will always have a numbers advantage and at any time last scum eliminated ends game result notwithstanding.

[ActionDan]

A near universal townread that had a known active ability would be an attractive scum kill though.

@MT, theres a lot of pressure on meuh, if there was a time to gladiate as scum this would be it. That said I would not think main scum would have this. Traitor might.

[ActionDan]

If you're talking about me

Titus in this case. N2 mostly town read, had an ability since it was publicly disclosed she targeted hood. Thus attractive nk

[ActionDan]

I really wish I didn't have to pick. I think I have to go furtive still.

[ActionDan]

I have been thinking you are more town as you post, but meuh is just as imo.

We could have just all held hands and voted enchant

[ActionDan]

Ya know regardless of outcome, I think me and Titus need to announce our targets for the night and pick different ones. I very much prefer targeting Enchant and that's who I will tonight

[ActionDan]

@ActionDan

Do you still believe 2nd traitor is unlikely to be a UBP, even though traitors in Community 1 were the same role?

UBP is not an acronym I'm familiar with.

I'm going back and forth on on whether traitor have exact same role pm. Intuitively the answer is yes. Meaning gladiate isn't traitor. But if scum power A dies it means scum traitors get power in duplicate and while that can work for standard power roles, operator is a weird one. So is gladiator for that matter. I lean towards same role, (makes sense flavorwise too, an attache per delegate, but I am no longer putting gladiate out of the question.

Anyway if this is TvT one person I think is town is not. I don't have great ideas where to look in that case.

Lots of cuts.

Pedit: Still think pooky slot straight up town, I do not think flavia had the wherewithal to make up the Miller bit. And Andres wasn't in the position to coach nor have I ever seen him do that.

[ActionDan]

I think 3p wincon has to do with the operators. Which is why ifnthere are any more town operators... Don't claim that part!

Theme of government is control and well... operators kinda do that flavorwise

[ActionDan]

I'm leaning AD scum, Flavia 3p myself.

Why that 3p read?

[ActionDan]

Dan, why is it important you know who I target?

I don't know your role, but I can guess it's type. And based on that it seems important to know your target in case of your death, but could be wrong. Hope you're playing correctly; more important we don't target same person imo.

[ActionDan]

So question. Say meuh is elimed and flips town. What then?

[ActionDan]

@furtive: You really are a believer. :/

Could you summarize what in their dayplay makes you think that way, holistically or from any individual posts?

[ActionDan]

I'm leaning AD scum, Flavia 3p myself.

Why that 3p read?

Why won't you answer why you wanted my target?

Dan, why is it important you know who I target?

I don't know your role, but I can guess it's type. And based on that it seems important to know your target in case of your death, but could be wrong. Hope you're playing correctly; more important we don't target same person imo.

[ActionDan]

I don't get the mech part

[ActionDan]

We're I town in meuhs shoes I might do the same thing. Maybe. Getting gladiated? Big suck. Getting a bunch of votes? Pain. Knowing towns probably OK without you? Lol good luck eat dirt go next.

Maybe, but I'd probably also harass the fuck out of furtive first.

[ActionDan]

A hood with concrete powers and no scum in it is a pretty crazy idea to me

Yes and I think Penguin is Town on play unless I'm hella pocketed.

Is there something in the hood that makes you think so? Or in this thread

[ActionDan]

Enchant is receiving some spirits.

Oh and if for some reason I die, you all are mass claiming tomorrow! aka I'm not as trusting of Titus as I once was.

[ActionDan]

It's frankly obvious due to Frogsterking's claim that I am not scum (self watch had me and Maria visit NYM night one). I am not a scum role as Frogsterking can attest because he got feedback if he self watched. You're just fishing. The only reason I can see you fishing is you want to know why the scumkill failed.

I'm concerned because you presented a way you could have been the scum kill and still wanted meuh to die because "I think 3p can kill". Instead of the occams razor solution of vig. People added sus of meuh because 1 kill thus maf kill

[ActionDan]

Side note. Not confirmed you targeted nym, only that you targeted in hood.

Pedit: ? Ignoring 3p killing potential. Option 1. Meuh vig scum kill failed. Option 2. Meuh scum Herta scum nk. People considered Option 2, Titus not very concerned that that was a reason for meuh sus imo

[ActionDan]

She well might be. You may have better info per Titus suggestion, but it would be nice to keep her honest

[ActionDan]

I roleblocked enchant

[ActionDan]

And by God I'll keep doing it

[ActionDan]

I can't explain n2 since I roleblocked herta. But n3 I can.

[ActionDan]

Also that really sounds 3p Titus.

[ActionDan]

I'm at work but you all may dicuss

[ActionDan]

Ofc also we full claim Titus can pick idc.

Well actually enchant goes first

[ActionDan]

Yes. Yes you are

[ActionDan]

If Titus is 3p and has same wincon we lose doing that

[ActionDan]

So ActionDan or Enchant is scum every time no?

There are many possibilities, of widely varying likelihood.

1. Enchant is scum and I stopped kill.
2. Enchant is town and not enchant scum shot Titus.

Wait. That's only 2.

You decide which is more likely.

[ActionDan]

Personally at this moment I think Titus 3p, furtive traitor that desperately tried to save enchant, and enchant scum that has spiraled into ever increasing fatalism since he entered the game.

[ActionDan]

Well your gladiate makes a lot more sense in the scenario I've described above. Enchant was very likely going down if not for the gladiate. Regardless traitor is rather impotent in this situation. I'm in favor of eliminating Titus. I highly doubt that scum targeted her twice and that scum wasn't enchant.

[ActionDan]

Here's a good question. Why didn't announce her targets?

[ActionDan]

Titus ewop*

[ActionDan]

Or we kill the practically claimed 3p

[ActionDan]

As I keep roleblocking enchant.

[ActionDan]

It's going to be a bit hard to convince you if you can't see it already. Admittedly, Titus for what ever reason gave it away voluntarily, but also true, that is a very Titus thing to do.

[ActionDan]

I would have too probably. But game is what it is. And Titus is weird. I do not feel comfortable letting her live.

[ActionDan]

Also she isn't playing from town perspective. Why did she not announce target. What if she died? Etc.

[ActionDan]

And honestly why choose you twice

[ActionDan]

We *should* probably mass claim first but I can't say I'm too bothered if we don't.

[ActionDan]

Purveyor, i.e loud roleblocker

[ActionDan]

Just waiting for DeasV and furtive

[ActionDan]

I'm giving DV a full 24 hours since his last to claim as a courtesy, then ill move on and assume he claims vanilla operator.

So 3 hours or so

[ActionDan]

Alright cool.

I'm going to roleblock enchant some more.

VOTE: Titus

[ActionDan]

E-1

[ActionDan]

GG guys.

I think less townsided, more VERY NOT SCUMSIDED. only because 3rd party definitely could have had that.

I like the idea of the 3rd party being antisocial but setups with it have to be tweaked.

The egregious flaws in this setup were 3rd party wincon not announced being so easy to achieve + Town close to Omniwatcher

[ActionDan]

Ah so it was what, 1-time use? no other abilities?

[ActionDan]

Mastina did you ever post as N.Y.M?

[ActionDan]

It was highly amusing reading frog's insane paranoia about me and Andres considering I know him irl