Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[fireisredsir]

hello

i drew this catboy shin like half an hour ago, do y'all like it (i didn't draw the whole thing i just drew the ears)

also i'm drunk ama

VOTE: catboi

yes i do

VOTE: catboi

[fireisredsir]

"catboy" just has such a different vibe to it than "catboi"

[fireisredsir]

[fireisredsir]

first takes

- dann bell misty towny
- charloux FA eh maybe towny
- catboi SS hmm
- datisi marachu scummy

VOTE: datisi

[fireisredsir]

Scum!SS would pm the mod to make the change, not ask for it in the main thread. It's a towntell

i don't think this is true

[fireisredsir]

first takes

- dann bell misty towny
- charloux FA eh maybe towny
- catboi SS hmm
- datisi marachu scummy

VOTE: datisi

why am i "hmm", and why is marashu scummy?

vibes

i thought the entrance felt light and jokey but since then you seemed kinda stiff and serious and like... quick to jump on things early in a way that i think of as more scummy for you

for marashu just gut something about the entrance felt off. like immediately going to snark as a reaction just doesnt feel right to me? i feel like the natural town response to something like that would be to be more inquisitive, it doesn't really feel sort-y

[fireisredsir]

why am i towny

you feel like you really have your investigator hat on and your magnifying glass out but in a way that is more focused on moving the game forward and prodding things out from people than it is about performance or like putting your own mindset on display for townpoints

specifically it reminds me of turing test d1

[fireisredsir]

have you played with val before? he seems p on brand so far based on what ive seen from him in previous games

[fireisredsir]

catboi seemed townie from interactions with charloux?

what about the interactions seemed towny?

[fireisredsir]

i agree with like basically all of the caps bear's takes so far so he can maybe be town

[fireisredsir]

i agree with like basically all of the caps bear's takes so far so he can maybe be town

WHAT TAKES?

your reads in 215 are v similar to mine, the only real difference is that i think dann is towny and you have him as null

i also wouldn't say i lean trustworthy on SS but eh idk

what makes you lean that way?

[fireisredsir]

@fire, I dunno why agreeing with a take is townie. Well, it might be a good sign. In this case but I’ll wait.

i think seeing the game from roughly the same angle as someone else is usually a good sign yea

idk, i think i usually tend to be more likely to trust people when i agree with their reads. is doing so correct? maybe, idk

i keep forgetting about the postcap, 200 is p generous tho

[fireisredsir]

Rookie scum mistake to overreact to me expression my feelings on a fos.
Like do you self-consciously believe that a case was like coming onto you??? That's what I think is going on in the head of scum!you.
I did not vote you, and I asked Ceph "is this actually scum, or am I just reading everything as scummy"
But I am advancing a case on you???

Like, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Newer player rands wolf.
Newer player starts to feel like they are being suspected
Newer player overeacts and attacks the person in response to suspecting them
The person in return attacks them harder because the newer player is acting unnatural and unreasonably to the attacker.

i don't really understand what about this makes val scum tbh

like this narrative is one that could have happened if he was scum, but what makes you think that's most likely? what about it is not believable as coming from town?

[fireisredsir]

I would actually like to add to the fact prior to his vote I felt like I saw all of these things and thought “I am scumreading this player for so many things is this guy actually scum?” Because even the list of concerns I told ceph was a bit too much for my tastes

Pedit: because he said he thought I was going to advance a case on him bro. If he is a villager why is he thinking about stuff like that and shouldn’t he just wait until I do form a case on him? If he was villager that seems like that would be the play here but instead he is just coming out of the gate panicked, saying I am going to advance a case on him. It’s fucking weird.

i don't really get it. he said that he believed that you picked up on the fact that he was suspicious of you, and that you started pushing him in main thread to get out in front of his suspicion so it looked like yours came first

in invictus i remember thinking that val (as town) kinda had a view of the game where things revolved around him in a way that was a little bit of a warped perspective. it seemed like something that would be kinda difficult to replicate as scum

and i kinda feel that here as well so my instinct is to find it towny. i don't really understand what the issue you have is, it seems like a believable trajectory from town to me

[fireisredsir]

actually i do kind of see what you're saying now

like the post is sort of aimed more at scoring points than at solving the game

i can see that i guess, i still think he's more towny than not but i think i get where you're coming from at least

[fireisredsir]

hmm i wonder if thats meaningful

[fireisredsir]

they are both ice-related

[fireisredsir]

If anything I feel like I'm more jokey to begin the game as scum but meh no going to debate this. Me getting serious was p obviously a factor of the things I saw being posted.

I actually feel like the remark from Marashu was towny? Like, the whole paranoid world "did you post in the wrong pt?" suspicion seems way more likely to come from a townie, I don't think it's a thought that is very likely to occur to scum.

i mean i don't get that feeling from it at all tho?

like there isn't a town curiousness behind it, it doesn't come off as a serious paranoid wondering if he actually did post in the wrong PT. it's more of a sassy response, feels to me like poking fun at someone they know is town

[fireisredsir]

If anything I feel like I'm more jokey to begin the game as scum but meh no going to debate this. Me getting serious was p obviously a factor of the things I saw being posted.

I actually feel like the remark from Marashu was towny? Like, the whole paranoid world "did you post in the wrong pt?" suspicion seems way more likely to come from a townie, I don't think it's a thought that is very likely to occur to scum.

i mean i don't get that feeling from it at all tho?

like there isn't a town curiousness behind it, it doesn't come off as a serious paranoid wondering if he actually did post in the wrong PT. it's more of a sassy response, feels to me like poking fun at someone they know is town

Meh, I guess. I don't love the fact that he sort of walked the read back and basically treated it as unserious but I wouldn't vote him over it.

im kinda surprised you changed your mind that quickly tbh

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: marashu

ig datisi is asleep anyway

[fireisredsir]

DO YOU USUALLY SCUMREAD SASSINESS OR ONLY IN THIS CONTEXT?

it's more about the lack of what looks like trying to sort charloux off the interaction

the sass makes it look like he doesn't care about pressing further on it in a serious manner or like he's interested in determining charloux's alignment

sass on its own is probably generally something id be more likely to townread for most people

[fireisredsir]

DO YOU USUALLY SCUMREAD SASSINESS OR ONLY IN THIS CONTEXT?

it's more about the lack of what looks like trying to sort charloux off the interaction

the sass makes it look like he doesn't care about pressing further on it in a serious manner or like he's interested in determining charloux's alignment

sass on its own is probably generally something id be more likely to townread for most people

I FEEL THIS, ACTUALLY. DO YOU AGREE WITH MY ASSESSMENT ON WIND CLAN?

idk i haven't really been grouping reads in terms of clans

i don't feel like i have a confident read on alisae or norwee, i do lean town on val

alisae i at first kinda didn't like the response to val but after they explained i feel like i can see the thought behind it more. and it does make sense to have that reaction for someone who hasn't played with val before

norwee has been kinda background idk, nothing has really left an impression

[fireisredsir]

290

im not like super confident on it but i think he feels like town val to me

[fireisredsir]

marashu do you have any reads

[fireisredsir]

what makes you think catboi town?

[fireisredsir]

290

im not like super confident on it but i think he feels like town val to me

That's really kind of vague? Like what in specific have you seen that makes you think that? Elaborate a little for me.

i mean i already explained the specific aspect of his play that was reminding me of his town play idk what more you want

like i can go pull up the posts from invictus that i think are similar if you really want me to but idk what you're hoping to accomplish here

feels a little weird i wouldn't expect you to care about this

[fireisredsir]

Why did you ask about the least interesting part of the post, lmfao

it was the part that i cared the most about hearing what he had to say

[fireisredsir]

290

im not like super confident on it but i think he feels like town val to me

That's really kind of vague? Like what in specific have you seen that makes you think that? Elaborate a little for me.

i mean i already explained the specific aspect of his play that was reminding me of his town play idk what more you want

like i can go pull up the posts from invictus that i think are similar if you really want me to but idk what you're hoping to accomplish here

feels a little weird i wouldn't expect you to care about this

No, I don't want to read his posts from invictus, I want to read the ones from

this game

you think are towny. If you

have to

, you can draw a comparsion between butt I want a little more than one sentence from you on why he's towny.

I'm literally just asking you to elaborate on your read, why are you getting so defensive?

276. like i said, i think it's towny bc he is like, viewing the game as if it's revolving around him, that alisae has this master plan to start suspecting him prior to him pushing a case on them so that they can be the one to do it first. and just the overdramatic 294 is kinda the same vibes. it's just like, really over the top in an almost conspiratorial way? and that feels like something that is not super easy to replicate as scum bc replicating it would require being self-aware of it as town and i think it's kinda inherently something that you wouldn't be very self-aware about. and additionally this matches up with my previous meta knowledge of val

and im just kinda weirded out by your approach to me here bc it feels v different than past experiences when you were town

idk if you've ever asked me to elaborate on a read in that way lmao

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: datisi

[fireisredsir]

bc i realized it was prob more productive to vote someone who was present. the vc reminded me

why didn't you ask me about why i scumread you

[fireisredsir]

no its not that interesting its basically literally just that lol

ig i didn't really think about hood activity, would you say you're more engaged in there?

also i was kinda thinking that potentially if you're town your lack of engagement towards me and my suspicion of you was probably like a reaction test/method of sorting me

so you saying basically the opposite is kinda weird to me

don't you usually like to sort people based on engaging with their pushes on you

[fireisredsir]

so in a way, yes i was waiting to see where you went with it because the current vote from you is boring nd doesn't tell me much

what's your thoughts on marashu so far besides "boring"

also what do you think of catboi

[fireisredsir]

oh i thought you were saying my vote on marashu was boring, i understand what you meant now

marashu bc i thought you were saying my vote on him was boring which was weird bc you hadn't talked about him at all (i now realize i misinterpreted)

and catboi bc im kinda lots of thoughts head full there so i was curious if you had any

[fireisredsir]

i really don't know if im capable of scumreading your new pfp the cat ears are too cute

this is going to be a problem

[fireisredsir]

why wouldn't i be clam?

insert shin photoshopped onto a clam

[fireisredsir]

i think that datisi as town would be capable of recognizing that bear is towny here but i do agree that his reaction to suspicion on him in general feels weird and off to me

[fireisredsir]

pedit - fire, is that thought supported by meta or is it independent of it? what feels off to you?

meta in the sense that it doesn't feel like, natural for you, i guess

like the nonchalance feels kind of awkward and ingenuine, in a way that feels off based on just knowing you

idk about if it's supported by meta in the sense of does this feel more like your town or scum game, but the way you approach games as scum seems to vary widely and ive wrongly let go of suspicion before bc it didn't necessarily match up with prior scum experiences. it doesn't really match how id expect you to act as town, though

[fireisredsir]

honestly i see her solving the game and having any town motivation and my previous experience was watching her mail in a scum game in ktane that was so obvious i was voting her uninterrupted for like, 4 game days

this was also most of my reason for townreading misty fwiw

she's probably more capable than that as scum but in that it just didn't feel like there was any solving happening under the hood at all, and here it does. but also just like a relaxedness of not needing to force anything

[fireisredsir]

I'm happy with their play to the point where I'm not voting it but it's something I'll probably be keeping my eye on as more phases of the game passes. If he's town the townread should just get stronger and stronger

i don't really get what this means

like what makes you think he's town

or what makes you not think he's scum, at least, since you keep pushing back on people suspecting him

[fireisredsir]

for the record - in a different game i'd probably be voting fa right now because i think her push on me stinks by far the most than what anyone else has done this game. but i have had a few people say she is Just Like That sometimes. so i'd like those people to chime in and say what they think here. thanks.

in my previous game with FA i felt like she was kinda right for the wrong reasons a lot, or at least her reasons were explained in a messy way

like i argued with her logic the whole game bc i felt it was wrong but then her reads ended up being correct

in this case i would say that i agree with her that your progression there feels a little off, but i thought it was more on the side of overexplained/overtelegraphed rather than underexplained

and like your defense after jumping on that with like "actually it was explained perfectly already here let me show you" does kinda fit with that so

[fireisredsir]

like going from 363, asking him a question and implying you find him suspicious for his actions, to 372 where you vote and reference that prior post, to 469 where you say "i already spelled out exactly why i voted you and what i want from you", to 476 where you think his answer is fine and back off

it just kinda feels like you had the whole trajectory planned in advance?

what exactly did you see in 472 that changed your mind? and throwing in the comments in 476 about agreeing with stuff others said about him being town and that you don't want to push a mech point just feels kinda weird bc why did that only now come into play? its like overexplained. idk why you felt the need to bring that stuff up, bc if it was important to your read, then why didn't it matter earlier?

[fireisredsir]

the entire 472 post felt honest and i could understand the idea of tilt voting bear

and it only "came into play then" because i don't want to let the person i'm pressuring know that i actually have some thoughts on why they're town because that diminishes my push (and also if their response ends up being really scummy, i can keep pushing on it without people going "but datisi you just said they're town because xyz why are you still pushing--" shut up you don't know how my brain works)

this is @fire

would you say it was a pressure vote to get an answer or a legitimate suspicion or both/somewhere in between

[fireisredsir]

hmm ok

you can go to sleep now

[fireisredsir]

Exactly, fire.

You'd know exactly the sort of reaction I think this is and why it's scum from you having made this sort of reaction when you were scum.

I think Alisae is scum here for similar reasons I thought your reaction to my claim made you scum. It's not identical, but it's similar--Alisae's reaction is overblown. Alisae's reaction is disproportionate. Alisae's reaction was a snap-reaction that was fairly OMGUSy. Sound familiar to you?

Because to me those are the hallmarks of scum that made a somewhat-panicked snap-decision to react to a town player hitting a nerve.

in cafe my reaction was less "she's got things exactly right oh no" and more "wow she's being misleading about her result i can try and dunk on her for this"

it did result in the reaction being a bit overblown/overconfident but it came from a different place than you're saying, if that makes sense

i agree though that alisae's reaction felt kinda over the top. their explanation of it afterwards made more sense to me tho

[fireisredsir]

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

why does this feel sarcastic im confused

[fireisredsir]

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

[fireisredsir]

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

I should apparently write more half-assed ramblings at 2 AM, then

it was more the stuff before that

but also probably yes

[fireisredsir]

This is kind of funny to read right after he says he likes my posting after I decide I found a better vote than Marashu

it was a half joking theory but unironically i think if you had decided you wanted to bus marashu (i did think your trajectory into him was kinda weird) then you wouldnt be super likely to just go somewhere else in the way you did, felt more like towny exploring new options than scummy agendaposting

so yea it did kinda factor in actually

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: val

Datisi's never scum here btw.

The vote's wrong since it's on town.

But Datisi is confscum for this series of posting and the vote.

confscum or conftown and why

[fireisredsir]

you would have miscleared datisi in like every scum game he's played recently then, thats p shallow reasoning

[fireisredsir]

i lean a little bit town on titus

i don't really have first person knowledge of what mastina scum feels like? but this feels like my experience of her as town

i don't lean town on bell anymore

[fireisredsir]

Why so?

I'm here and paying attention, just trying to formulate an opinion based on the posts made.
While waiting for more from certain low post players.
Consider my Datisi read slightly blunted.
I can't really read Alisae.
I can't read Titus. They've kind of been like this since the last 3-5 games I've played with them. Where the activity and content is so erratic and sort of unrelated to anything that I can't make sense of what their actual trajectory is.

I'm still sitting on Norwe, because I don't think that me feeling bad if they get eliminated early if they're town is an actual reason not to kill them. It's frustrating tho.

you seem to be either intentionally limiting the thoughts you share or just not really having them in a way that seems more like scum you

your posts feel like they're being made out of obligation rather than natural thought. 640 especially feels way more like turing test bell than town bell

im not like too pressed about sorting you immediately tho so

[fireisredsir]

I really don’t agree with person rewrites posts a few times and decides to be concise and is therefore scum.
I would have accepted Bell wasn’t posting with an internal timer which led to the change. But the reasoning just doesn’t reach the truth in this case.

i mean i can only see the result and it looks more like how you usually play scum and it's noticeably lacking the like clear thought process im used to seeing when you're town

i don't know that you decided to be more concise, i don't know what an internal timer means, i can't see inside your head and thats like kinda the issue here bc usually you make that easy when you're town

are you saying this is an intentional playstyle shift from you?

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: kittytacky

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

the worst? how so?

its a bunch of quote stripes followed by one-liners with no thought put into them, half of them don't even say anything important, and he ends it with a really obviously opportunistic vote on half baked reasoning - just "I'm convinced" and absolutely nothing more which doesn't feel like he had real thoughts about norwee's alignment at all

It's about the most classically newbscum post you'll ever see

If you ever played with me, that's how I play as town lol. Lots of one-liners. I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction. And if I legit had nothing to add to a case I agreed with, what would I say besides "I agree"? Sheeping is not scummy.

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

can you talk about what specifically of the norwee case you found compelling? like what points stood out that you connected to?

[fireisredsir]

also i don't think you really have to worry about the post restriction, you have 13 posts lol. just play normally and you're never gonna hit 200 posts in a day

getting more engaged is like the ideal result of a wagon, thats kinda the goal, to see how the person responds to pressure. and i do think your response feels townier than your response to pressure in turing test

VOTE: marashu

[fireisredsir]

.........
Let's break down the sentences.

1. I'm fine shutting down Mastina's ego if they're town and wrong. Nobody should be 97.5% confident in a read day one. AND ABSOLUTELY NOBODY SHOULD BE 100% CONFIDENT IN A READ DAY 1 Unless they have mod information. Which I won't entertain given who I'm speaking to.
2. If they're right my win condition is advanced and I'll be happy with that.

Am I leaving out that you're the best player at the table at reading Norwe? Yes. Yes I'm going to ignore that claim because there are a lot of issues I have with it. Such as:
1. You could be wrong.

so you were being sarcastic? why didn't you say this when i asked about it originally

and can you be more specific about when something similar to this happened in lost, like at least who did you vote? i don't wanna read all that

also who are your strongest townreads rn

[fireisredsir]

Either outcome is funny. *signed up*

ok ig this kind of does imply what you're saying here but that wasn't really clear at all at the time

so it's strange to me that you say you aren't limiting your thoughts when it seems like in this case you had a lot more thoughts that you chose not to share even when i specifically asked about them... because ???

[fireisredsir]

norwe is probably town

i literally have 0 idea why there are votes on marashu

this game is zzz

i just kinda gut don't believe a lot of marashu's posts, the solving just feels kinda forced and unnatural

idk if they're doing more in the hood or what but it just doesn't feel like they're doing much to try to find scum. they will like disappear for a while and then return but only respond to questions directed to them, there's no proactivity

which is like vastly different from the town game of theirs that i looked at so like ik they are capable of being proactive as town



what would make the game less zzz

do you have any hot takes you want to share

[fireisredsir]

okay that context helps thanks

it is correct that as town you usually like to build around a couple core townreads, right? im not wrong to be expecting you to do that? is your townread on mastina based on more than just her mason claim?

pedit: idk i think i have to reread that bit ill go do that

[fireisredsir]

oh ok you answered that there, i kinda didn't fully follow that back and forth the first time through

idk to me it just looks like you were on different wavelengths and not really understanding each other (which i think is understandable bc i didn't really understand any of you the first time i read it)

you were talking about how you wanted to sheep mastina bc if she's right then she's right and if she's wrong then at least she loses her credibility

and alisae i think is saying that like... that's not very pro-town of you lol which i would kind of agree with, but i mean at least you're being honest about it i guess???

and also asking why you're willing to sheep mastina's read and not alisae's own read

and norwee asking why you're accepting mastina as town

i don't really see any of it as gotchas or nitpicking grammar, it just feels like them not understanding your perspective and approach to the situation (which tbh i would agree is kinda bizarre) and trying to ask clarifying questions to understand it

[fireisredsir]

i do feel like i can actually understand what you're thinking for the first time this game which is nice i guess cause that's usually what im looking for

i don't like fully get why you think the most useful thing for town is to vote norwee here beyond like a personal vindictiveness but i don't know of thats necessarily scummy? just strange

[fireisredsir]

No matter how much we argued it seemed like the only options they would accept was to either eliminate Cephrir or do a no elimination. They were *that* confident that Taly was town.
Taly wasn't town. You had to be there. Anyway it kind of turned me off to Alisae's approach here and I've never responded well to a player's AtE(Norwe). So that's it in a nut shell.

actually i still don't really get this bc looking at the timeline of things, you voted norwee based off mastina's confidence there and that was well before alisae started saying that they 100% tr norwee. they call norwee towny in 279, but say they're still sorting him, and their first like really confident statement of norwee town is 602. but you voted norwee before that, in 583

so it wasn't about you being turned off by alisae's approach, it was about mastina

so why would this context make you MORE inclined to encourage the approach that you found frustrating in the previous game by following someone expressing a 97.5% confidence read?

the way you explain it here it sounds like you're saying you don't want to give alisae's read the requested weight but like mastina is doing exactly the same thing from the other direction

[fireisredsir]

Is it really that hard to understand that I voted Norwe first because it’s RVS and I’m happy to explore where a wagon might lead on a small TR on slot that hadn’t done much and stayed there because the best defense I’ve seen is “trust me you guys, they’re super town in the neighborhood?”
You keep saying you think you get it but then you loop back right into not knowing. Ask some clarification questions instead of looping. Into a deeper and deeper series of doubt that themselves don’t make sense because it almost seems like you can’t understand how time works. \: or something?

yes it very much is? bc it wasn't rvs? it was on page 24 how is that rvs? and you've kept your vote there the entire time, so if the vote was bc you're happy to explore wagons then why not ever explore other wagons? this is starting to feel like weird excuses to not actually do any normal town behavior like hunt scum or vote for the people you think are scum

and you are responding to a quote in which i did ask clarifying questions so... yea that's what im doing. i don't get the tone here. what do you even mean that i don't understand how time works?

i never said that i get why you're doing this. i specifically said multiple times that it is really weird and doesn't make sense to me. all ive said is that now you're at least showing your thought process and i feel like i can see that thought process even though i don't really think the thought process makes sense (and tbh kind of feels fake and made up after the fact to justify your behavior considering there are unexplained holes in it)

like in that post i specifically asked you to clarify what you meant by justifying your vote as a reaction to alisae's approach to norwee, when your vote was before they took that approach. and you ignored the question. and then made up another justification that doesn't make sense (rvs??). and then said that i should be asking more clarifying questions to understand you. like what

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: bell

the tone in that post actually really bothers me i don't think it makes sense from town at all

like why would you condescend and minimize what im saying and say that i should be asking clarifying questions instead of looping back into not understanding, while skipping past the question that i asked

i kinda just think you don't have an answer

[fireisredsir]

Ok but like, what you're saying, and what is like, happening, is like, completely opposite of each other and actions say more about a person than what they say so...

wouldn't that make him town then? or why would he pretend to be overly worried about the post cap as scum?

i remember in invictus i was def a bit over the top in my performing concern about the postcap early on in an attempt to look towny, that one was like 125

the postcap here is 200. i don't really think any town here should be genuinely worried about it rn if they put any actual thought into it (unless they are a huge spam poster which we don't really have any of here), which is what makes it feel kinda faked concern

[fireisredsir]

it felt more rhetorical than not to me but it's possible I was just reading what I wanted

i also thought it was rhetorical tbh but maybe it wasn't

[fireisredsir]

can anyone who knows bell tell me whether "i got the impression you're scum in the first 5 pages and i'm gonna stick to it" kind of behaviour is more like his town or scum game

because i can currently think of (1) reason it's townie and (1) reason it's scummy

i think it's probably the easiest aspect of his towngame to imitate and leaning on it heavily (both on you, and not really evolving his thought on norwee) has me kinda hmmm

[fireisredsir]

can anyone who knows bell tell me whether "i got the impression you're scum in the first 5 pages and i'm gonna stick to it" kind of behaviour is more like his town or scum game

because i can currently think of (1) reason it's townie and (1) reason it's scummy

I would say that description makes him sound like lock town tbh

i think the part of town bell that is hard for scum bell to imitate is the natural evolving thought process

and like not just sounding stiff and wooden and forced and obligatory and like he doesn't want to be there

i think him sticking to a scumread from the first 5 pages is none of those things and i don't know why it would make him locktown, do you really think that's the thing he can't do as scum?

[fireisredsir]

SS you have posted like a ton of content relative to your usual, especially in terms of actually developing reads

enough to the point where at first i thought it was weird and the difference could be scummy, but i am feeling that less now

[fireisredsir]

Not in any iteration of scum-him that I've seen. It's possible he decided to actually up his game but I think it's less likely than him being town here, because generally as town he just gets a scumread and then harps on it until someone listens to him.

i just don't really think it would take much at all "upping his game" for him to decide to do that here

like im p sure he's aware of that pattern as town and it also happens to be incredibly easy to pull off and requires zero nuance so idk why he wouldn't do it as scum

[fireisredsir]

enough to the point where at first i thought it was weird and the difference could be scummy, but i am feeling that less now

can you walk me through your thoughts here in more detail?

you started the game off with lots of opinions and reads and thoughts and even early voting

ive only played with you as town i think and my experience is that you haven't really done that at all

so my first thought was that here you might be feeling some pressure to do more in order to get townread and the playstyle difference could be due to alignment difference

lately tho you've felt more what i would expect (but still giving reads), which also makes me think it isn't like a completely different playstyle, you probably just genuinely had things that you had thoughts and opinions on, which is like a good thing anyway bc now its easier to actually track what you've been thinking

[fireisredsir]

@bell i think its probably like correct play to give you time but i also think you're probably scum

the towniest thing you've done is not be completely absent and thats a p low bar

[fireisredsir]

datisi what happened to you being a catboy where'd that go

tbh its almost embarrassing how much less willing i am to be pocketed by him now

aside from that his posting feels townier like objectively tho lately imo

[fireisredsir]

i think he can be sassy as scum but it usually feels like more on the aggressive side ig

like he's trying to make you feel bad about suspecting him, or making other people think that whoever he's talking to is scum or whatever

[fireisredsir]

honestly 100% true

luckily like 90% of this game is cute cats and so the playing field is even

[fireisredsir]

well there's the townier bell i was looking for. its like a fully different person just showed up and started posting, idk where you were earlier

UNVOTE:

[fireisredsir]

And if my goal was to create an interaction with Marashu, why do I then move on without a response from Marashu? The theory doesn't even hold up to its own internal logic. I really don't believe this is something you actually believe is true. As it stands, what happened was kittytacky made some posts I thought were bad, so I moved my vote to him instead of Marashu. It's not very complicated. I vote hop a fair bit on Day 1 and the idea that I'm obligated to keep my vote on Marashu until he responds to me is nonsense.

i mean this was more or less my thought process for why your moving your vote off marashu didn't make sense if you were s/s with him (you likely wouldn't have an awkward pivot onto a partner if you didn't actually want to commit and get anything out of voting there) and you told me that was bad process but ok

no it's fine this is probably a big waste of energy like I thought it would be

what did you mean by this

do you still scumread dann

[fireisredsir]

the catboi/dann thing is interesting ig. it feels like they're both kinda puffing their chests up a lil bit, maybe just bc it's all very... cordial? it feels like there's a slight lack of. something. behind the posts, intensity or conviction maybe. some of it feels a bit like writing for the sake of writing rather than like, a true reflection of a passionate scumread of the heart

that could just come from being 2 good players early on in the game who are aware that even if they find the other to be suspicious so far, it's hard to be confident in a read, so idk

i kinda still am more nervous about catboi of the two but it could be a playstyle thing that im not used to

[fireisredsir]

I tend to think their catboi is a different playstyle and I dunno if they do it purposely or I just don't understand it but I think it slightly controls for the approach.

This is basically correct fwiw, I attempt to play differently on different alts. Nice of you to notice.

like i think this is probably part of it bc i mostly townread him when he's more in vibey casual less-wall-y mode and that's probably just more what im used to

[fireisredsir]

i thought of that but then i figured like... i would kinda expect them to be more performative on the aggression if it's theatre? like if they're doing it then might as well go all out

instead it sort of feels like neither really wants to fully step on the other's toes

which is rather polite of them and that sort of thing should probably be encouraged, so

[fireisredsir]

well there's the townier bell i was looking for.

What about Bell is townie?

i would say almost nothing up through 969

and then basically everything from 1090 on (with that post probably being the most)

it just feels like suddenly his thoughts are flowing freely rather than being stiffly and carefully constructed. imo p much everything prior to that post looked way more like scum bell, and this looks way more like town bell, but even outside of meta I think it's just towny. i can see what he's thinking, the thoughts make sense, he's consistently posting and addressing new topics and angles

at this point i would now agree with what catboi said earlier that if he's scum here he has def upped his game

[fireisredsir]

i would kinda expect them to be more performative on the aggression if it's theatre? like if they're doing it then might as well go all out

What makes you think they have to be more performative about it?

I've seen Dann do theater before I don't remember it being at all performative but rather, and quite literally, a waste of everyone's time and did not really change any reads.

maybe ig, it just kinda feels like if it was theatre then it was clearly orchestrated and way planned in advance, since catboi had his "secret spicy scumread" for a while to build up to it, and it just kinda feels to me like they'd go at it a little more?

i don't really know what dann scum looks like tbh though

are you saying you think this looks like how dann does theatre? what's your read on the two of them

[fireisredsir]

ok yea i mean i don't think its impossible to be theatre either

i don't really feel like that's the most likely option tho

[fireisredsir]

i think [scrrdbear, dann, FA, val] are town
less strongly i think [mastina, bell, misty, maybe titus?] are town
and then lightly i lean town on [penguin, charloux, alisae, maybe catboi?]

i think im getting close to the point of d1 where i get tired of talking and i just want to yeet someone

VOTE: marashu

could vote kitty ig if people strongly would rather do that but i prefer this

[fireisredsir]

I think its safe to say they're aligned with each other

idk if this is a serious take or not lol

if it is then what makes you say this given you said you didn't read it

[fireisredsir]

I normally hyperpost my stream of consciousness, I would have already been close to bumping up against the limit if I didn't switch to wallposting. This is what kinda miffs me.

in your entire history of playing, your post total for a full game, not just a day phase, has only ever once exceeded 200 (and one other time it was 199)

i get its a psychological thing but you really don't have to be concerned about the limit lol

[fireisredsir]

it is a little dense but i feel like people are mostly actually listening to each other which is nice

and penguin ya lol it was only like 15 games or so, and i was meta skimming while bored anyway

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: kittytacky

will be able to think more later maybe idk

[fireisredsir]

im sick and my brain doesn't work but i kind of read things

ill be maybe here until i fall back asleep

sry for no quotes or links just replying off memory here

@bear i didn't think mastina was scummy and kinda felt like she will get easier to read over time. and i have thought datisi was townier lately idk i just didn't really want to vote him

@datisi about your response to pressure in invictus, idr that tbh i wasn't trying to sort you in that game. compelling point if true tho ill check it out later

@penguin what makes you say norwee description of mastina doesn't match up to datisis cafe. i thought she was evolving her opinions based on new info p frequently there but its possible that mostly came after flips and claims which is kinda why i wanted to wait until a later day to see how she's progressed. i think i maybe talked myself into agreeing with you actually

idr if there was other things i wanted to respond to

maybe v/la for a couple days

[fireisredsir]

was about to vote t3 for perpetual catchup without content

then i realized i missed his content cause it was in a spoiler

then i kinda wanted to vote him for the content

fireisredsir scummy that he said Datisi and Marashu are the same level of scummy, didn’t distinguish, implies an underlying agenda

what is the context for this and why is it scummy

and like why specifically does that apply to me when everyone in the game has people who they think are roughly the same level of scummy, that's just like a thing that happens that everyone does i don't get your point here

[fireisredsir]

ig looking again, mastina could be doing the thing where she spends like way more words talking about everything besides actual reasons for reads so that it looks like she has content bc she keeps posting massive walls but none of them actually provide any game advancing material

idk

@penguin i think its the reasoning thats more important tho. like she had points (titus claim, my claim) where she clearly was adjusting her reads and direction based on new info. her overall readlist might have stayed similar but her thoughts were changing. i do think most of that was after d1 tho. and even a lot of d2 she was singularly focused on the roden angle

[fireisredsir]

i probably shouldn't read penguin entirely on tone but his tone felt extremely different as scum and as town from when i played with him

and his tone here feels more town i think

[fireisredsir]

yea ok thinking about it more i really don't like the "ive put too much energy into mafia lately so im not going to give reasons for my reads" immediately followed by a huge wall that is just reiterating what her reads are. like the energy used to make that post could have been put towards something useful instead but she went out of her way to excuse herself from doing that and then still put the energy in anyway

VOTE: mastina

back to sleep

[fireisredsir]

hello how are we doing

[fireisredsir]

Alisae - town?
catboi - town
Charloux - town?
Datisi - scum?
NorwegianboyEE - scum?
Bell - town
KittyTacky - scum?
Dannflor - town
Mistyx - town?
SCRRRDBEAR - town
Titus - scum?
fireisredsir - town!
mastina - scum
Frozen Angel - town!
Cephrir - scum?
Marashu - scum?
Shiro - scum?
Something_Smart - town?
Val89 - town!
T3 - scum
PenguinPower - town?

i think i have too many ?s

thats an accurate representation of my feelings rn tho

[fireisredsir]

I am doing how about you

im alive, so

[fireisredsir]

and i have thought datisi was townier lately idk i just didn't really want to vote him

ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU SAID NORMALLY HAPPENS WHEN YOU PLAY AGAINST DATISI SCUM?

pedit - fire, is that thought supported by meta or is it independent of it? what feels off to you?

meta in the sense that it doesn't feel like, natural for you, i guess

like the nonchalance feels kind of awkward and ingenuine, in a way that feels off based on just knowing you

idk about if it's supported by meta in the sense of does this feel more like your town or scum game, but the way you approach games as scum seems to vary widely and ive wrongly let go of suspicion before bc it didn't necessarily match up with prior scum experiences. it doesn't really match how id expect you to act as town, though

IT LOOKS LIKE YOUR CURRENT FEELINGS TOWARD DATISI MATCH THOSE WHEN YOU HAVE PLAYED AGAINST DATISI SCUM IN THE PAST.

maybe yea idk

i don't think its quite the same but he is good at looking towny so

there have been times where i saw like, one thing that really stood out to me as being AI but i let it get watered down into null by the evidence of just normal posting

thats something im trying to work on actually is not getting weighed down by too much information and just trusting that if something really pings me i should trust that

i don't know if that makes me more accurate in reads but it does make me regret the misses less

i don't even know if this point is super relevant to datisi anymore bc i don't think there was anything this game that stood out to me that strongly from him. but the vague uncertain feelings i have towards him do kinda make me think he's more likely to be scum

[fireisredsir]

dann move im not a huge fan of either i dont really follow why he jumped off without really questioning it or why he went after mastina
norwee fire responses seem fine

why is my response fine and dann's isn't

[fireisredsir]

I'm not that appeased to vote mastina. what I see from mastina in this game is she putting thought behind what she is writing and actually making logical infenerces, even if its filled with lots of other stuff and emotions.I actually got the impression that she is evaluating stuff and not just throwing totally random stuff out there. mastina pushing for linked reads on ali and norwee after her initial read list material was a bit pushy over shallow reasoning but yet I see that genuine in a weird way as she got it based on something that was actually thrown in game yet I believe a scum mastina would throw completely random reads in and call them out on meta or random crap to look like she is doing the work in chaos (that's at least my impression of her playstyle and not necessarily truth)

idk i did go read mastina's most recent scum game and i don't think this is really accurate, she's not like incapable of progression as scum. but i think there she was a lot less willing to go into detail on reasoning or respond to new posts and stuff. and i think the level to which she's doing that here is closer to that than it is to her play in datisi's cafe as town

[fireisredsir]

It should be noted that that was both a multiball game (I could get real read progression, not needing to fake it), and also I had a negative utility role so I knew from the onset that I needed to die for my team to stand a chance (so I deliberately didn't want to go into too much detail, as to avoid spewing players town after I flipped).

hmm this is actually a pretty good point i didn't think of that you would be genuinely scumhunting

i looked at control and it kinda does match the description of "have reads at the start of the game and never adapt" with lots of walls about why you're obviously town and how confident you are and basically any topic except giving reasoning for reads

but in that you linked subreddit upick, which i also looked at and i think is a much better scumgame and shows more thought and progression and responding to new info just on d1 than you've even done here, and even more on later days

so i still think that FA's description of your play was very ungenerous to your abilities as scum, and your own kinda encouraging that perception here and downplaying your scum abilities is actually p scummy imo bc based on your post-game comments from those games i don't really think that you would actually agree with that perception? its just that here it's convenient for you

[fireisredsir]

Are we absolutely sure that executioner isn’t an possible role in this game?

I know right? It's a huge part of why I TR Datisi, since I am town, doing this as scum would be delayed suicide once I flip green.

i don't get this thought process at all but the sort of self-centeredness kinda vibes towny to me

[fireisredsir]

its a poem!

SS what are your current thoughts on norwee and mastina?

[fireisredsir]

SS what are your current thoughts on norwee and mastina?

I think I lean town on mastina because what she's doing just feels like a big throw as scum, and I lean scum on Norwee because I'm inclined to trust mastina to some extent (obviously not as much as she claims we should).

ok can you share more of your thought process of why you put her as scum when you did your readlist? ik afterwards you said you were going back and forth, what made you decide to put her as scum?

that just seemed kind of out of place with the rest of the way you were handling them

[fireisredsir]

also id probably rather do t3 than kitty atp personally

[fireisredsir]

why did you post 1446 if thats how you feel

the way you added it on 10 minures later feels a little self-conscious, or pre-empting criticism or something

[fireisredsir]

also the reads not being expanded on in the post with the list itself is different than saying that nothing about the choices made should be explained at any point

otherwise they're kind of useless?

[fireisredsir]

btw, you wanna hear how you do cancel culture right?

There's this misconception about cancel culture that to cancel someone you start personally attacking them.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense cause that's just being a shitty person.

Here is what you do.
Take who you wanna cancel, so KittyTacky in this case, and you do not engage with him. You do not interact with his posts. You do not engage about the topic other than telling people that you're not engaging with it and these are the reason's that you shouldn't engage with it.

Because this is the person that wrote this post.

VOTE: Kitty
Norwee abandon ship

Opportunism. Scum.

There is no talking to this person.
Talking to this person in main thread means you are wasting yours posts.
I MEAN JUST LOOK AT THIS

I called it. I fucking called it. Now let's catpile Norwe.

VOTE: Norwegian

This person is not worth your posts. He is only worth your vote.

ik this seems like not an entirely serious post but i still don't really like the approach, kitty seems like someone who is more sortable by talking to them and trying to get them engaged in the game

in their past scum games they usually struggled to respond to pushes on them and questioning of them consistently. they've already done more here in that respect than they ever have before

idk what the point of not engaging with them would be. if you think that everything they post is obvscum then what's wrong with people trying to talk to them and having them post more

[fireisredsir]

don't really like misty jumping on right after that either tbh

bear's interaction there feels more like towny evaluating things and thinking it through, whereas misty's posting feels like there's an agenda behind it

[fireisredsir]

in their past scum games they usually struggled to respond to pushes on them and questioning of them consistently. they've already done more here in that respect than they ever have before

have you looked at all his scumgames? which ones?

newbie 2100 and LN239 were the ones i looked at most thoroughly, besides turing test

i think he had one or two others but i didn't look at them recently, i at least briefly skimmed everything a while ago and felt like his response to pressure wasn't ever much more engaged than it was in turing test

[fireisredsir]

ok his posts on page 77 do be looking kinda fake tho

[fireisredsir]

i do remember him using the "you're just pushing me bc I'm LHF town and you're opportunistic scum" line in one of those previous scumgames so idk lol

[fireisredsir]

my only vibe from Titus previously was "disengaged" but I don't think that's AI

DAMN THAT'S TOO BAD BECAUSE I WAS SCUM READING THEM FOR IT.

ive correctly townread titus for this in the past tbh and i kind of was early in this game. idk if its like a strong towntell or anything but i kind of think it's a lean at least

some of the more recent posting sketched me out a bit more tho

[fireisredsir]

hey bear, do you think me pushing kitty throughout like half of day 1 is also trying too hard to create anti associates?

wait, no, you probably didn't read a single post i made past like page 20 or whenever it was. sure. cool. excellent play.

hmm

i have a lot of thoughts about this post and im not sure which ones are right

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: misty

[fireisredsir]

(2) so i can potentially enter a conversation with fire? because they said they've struggled to respond to pressure as scum before, and like... kitty's play here looks exactly like that description? but i don't have the meta they have? so i wanna see if i'm wrong about that (i.e. kitty struggles much more than here as scum) or if fire is wrong?

i mean i agree that his responses don't look like surface level good here but thats not really what im looking for

its more that as scum i felt his responses were v flat and lifeless and not really trying to have a conversation or engagement over it

[fireisredsir]

I really don’t care about the meta of some troll if that’s how u sort them good for u.

Other people can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think that engaging with the slot to me is a waste of posts. I mean I think the guy posts like an open wolf npc but I mean maybe more people need more time to reach that conclusion? I’m just saying why I’m not engaging with it, and you shouldn’t either it’s not worth ur posts.

i don't think they're actually a troll, they just often get eliminated. and there's a difference between saying that you're not going to engage with the posts anymore and encouraging other people not to. that's the part i don't really get. i get it in situations where the person is like spamming or just being a nuisance or whatever, but i don't really feel like that applies here?

idk maybe im just sensitive to the sentiment he gave of getting discouraged by feeling like people are ignoring him when he tries to get more engaged, so then seeing you basically telling everyone to ignore him is like... feels like targeted towards shutting down any chance of him showing himself as town if he is

[fireisredsir]

I agree that bear’s reactions the last few pages have been pitch perfect to my ears in terms of towniness.

i havent been feeling this so im interested in your take here

is there a reason you asked specifically bell this instead of me when i was the one he was agreeing with

can you also answer 1699

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: t3

[fireisredsir]

down with VCAers!!

[fireisredsir]

I found something that we all need to chase down right now:

Spoiler:

Would u like to share what you found with the class

I just... I... nevermind.

do you have any thoughts on the game

[fireisredsir]

i think its just a laser pointer joke lmao thats a very generous interpretation titus

[fireisredsir]

That exchange did not give me good vibes

which side and why

[fireisredsir]

i don't think anyone else figured it out other than me

im pretty sure i have the same guess you do

[fireisredsir]

i thought titus looked a lot scummier than penguin in the titus/penguin exchange so multiple people giving it a kind of blanket "something is off here!" without going into who and why is weird to me

[fireisredsir]

When you say you don't like it, do you mean in a "I disagree with this being a good way to play the game" sense or a "I think this is scummy" sense?

see 2028

kinda both

and then they kinda did it again to marashu but i appreciated that they at least clarified/apologized for that after unprompted

idk with stuff like that part of me always wants to believe that scum wouldn't use those tactics and it's more likely to come from emotional/frustrated/confident/whatever town, and part of me knows that if scum is the one doing it then maybe it's justified by playing to wincon and not just being mean

i don't really know how to judge which of those is more likely, im p bad at assessing stuff like that in games, which is another part of why i don't really like when people play that way

in this case i leaned towards the side of finding that it felt agenda-y tho

[fireisredsir]

isn't that not what that quote means

that wasn't my interpretation of its usage at least

[fireisredsir]

Explain this vote? I thought her posting was good overall

i didn't like the way she moved onto kitty, it felt like she was searching for reasons to justify it rather than naturally evaluating the situation

and there's been a couple times where its felt like she's inconsistently applied standards when looking at different slots

and that kinda reminded me that FA explained in hood (which misty is in) that her main method of scumhunting is looking for places where people aren't consistent with how they analyze things/how they behave

and i questioned misty on it yesterday and she ignored me and i don't think FA had fully caught up to that point and now she's dead

thats not like a super significant part of the read but it was in my mind at least

i also read a scumgame of hers and it made me realize that my previous standards for her scumplay (based on ktane) were way too low of a bar

mostly just wasn't really feeling the townvibes anymore when i re-checked the iso

[fireisredsir]

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

i was actually surprised how little he got eliminated when i looked, you're right

what i (and i think alisae) was referring to tho was a comment where i think he called himself limbait or something. so even if he doesn't actually get eliminated he still is like regularly in that pool of people who are suspected

but true my bad, that is not strictly correct, i think the sentiment is tho

[fireisredsir]

my previous standards for her scumplay (based on ktane) were way too low of a bar

the MU people keep telling me she is in fact a good wolf but I have not yet seen it

that's why i went to read games on MU lol

[fireisredsir]

im actually a big fan of the miltank, might be above serial killer shin for me in terms of appeal

[fireisredsir]

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

i was actually surprised how little he got eliminated when i looked, you're right

what i (and i think alisae) was referring to tho was a comment where i think he called himself limbait or something. so even if he doesn't actually get eliminated he still is like regularly in that pool of people who are suspected

but true my bad, that is not strictly correct, i think the sentiment is tho

okay so that's kind of a weird response because I'm not sure what "the sentiment is correct" is supposed to mean? like if he does not get miseliminated often as town it does not happen. we're arguing facts not feelings here.


and I had this really dumb theory forming in my head that kittytacky told the scum PT "I suck I always get eliminated" and fire just came in assuming kittytacky meant as

both

alignments when that is not actually true

and this whole argument by fire is him trying to divert pressure off kittytacky because he's usually pretty averse to bussing but he didn't bother to actually fact check like he would as town

idk its just not really relevant to the point? i was talking with alisae when she called him a troll bc he made a comment somewhere that he ruins games. and i was saying that he made that comment bc he views himself as limbait and often gets pushed, not because he is actively trying to troll. like the point is the same whether he gets eliminated or not, and it also wasn't a point that has anything to do with his alignment in this game, it was a point about whether he deserves to be ignored or not. this isn't a gotcha lol

and i mean i did look at his games earlier when i was checking postcounts i feel like thats p verifiable

and when i looked again later i did focus more on looking at his scumgames to see how he responded to pressure in them so maybe that made me forget how often he actually gets elimmed

im also probably more likely to fact check as scum tbh, as town i know that it isn't relevant to the point im making so i don't care

[fireisredsir]

im only saying that bc im p sure he has said it about himself as town before

i can go look and try to find the comment later if you want me to

and my point is it wasn't in his defense. you're treating it like a defense. the point didn't have anything to do with his alignment in this game

also are you saying you disagree with the characterization of "not a troll, but limbait" bc i find that kinda hard to believe

[fireisredsir]

yeah sure you know what, show it to me. again my point is not that the characterization in and of itself is unbelievable, it's that you making that defense reflexively feels unearned. although I guess "not a troll" isn't a hard defense to make

IDK, I might be focusing way too much on that one particular clause about him getting eliminated often and this is super pointless, it stood out to me in the moment but now I feel stupid talking about it


and are you not defending kittytacky? it read to me like you were defending him given you were critical of alisae's handling of him

ok so uh

you might be right lmao

i did find what i was looking for, in open 860 he says he kinda sucks at the game as town and calls himself a day miller

but i did notice something else. which is that the thing i had noticed earlier, where he had used the line as scum about people being opportunistic pushing him as LHF, thats actually like a major pattern that carries through all his scum games and only appeared once in a town game

these are all his games from this year, i stopped reading there

- MN 2280, town, doesn't accuse anyone pushing him of being opportunistic
- newbie 2100, scum, calls someone opportunistic for pushing him as LHF
- open 860, town, doesn't accuse anyone of being opportunistic, but is down on his own abilities a bit
- turing test, scum, "opportunistic scum pushing LHF"
- LN239, scum, "I'm a dumb townie/LHF and scum is pushing me"
- MN 2257, town, does call someone opportunistic for pushing him, but its not bc he's LHF, it's a different context
- open 852, scum, the people pushing him are scum that are pushing him because he's an easy push and LHF
- MN 2271, town, despite a lot of people pushing him and him assuring people it's just his playstyle, he mostly doesn't accuse anyone of being opportunistic scum for it. does eventually once say that scum is pushing him for being LHF
- MN 2267, town, says nothing of the sort

and in this game:

VOTE: Kitty
Norwee abandon ship

Opportunism. Scum.

The entire tone of that post is gross and dismissive. It's what I would do as frustrated scum with no real argument pushing a LHF townie.

ik people think word tells are dumb and they kinda are but i don't think this really counts as a word tell, its more of a mindset tell. as scum he consistently follows the pattern of accusing people pushing him of being opportunistic pushers of LHF, its like his consistent fallback approach, and as town it doesn't seem to be something he looks for at all except for in one instance, which might be what he's trying to imitate in his later scumgames, since that one came first

so yea tbh i still stand by my original point that he does generally believe himself to be LHF town, but i think he tends to talk about it a lot more as scum, and also accuse people of being scum for pushing him for it as like a very consistent pattern. literally every scum game i read

and he's definitely doing that this game

[fireisredsir]

also i think ceph is scum

[fireisredsir]

I didn't accuse people of being opportunistic in those games because I did not see opportunism; I just saw misguided townies. And I don't counterpush people I just think are wrong town. So this isn't a tell, this is just me acting under different circumstances.

yea i mean thats my point. it seems like you are much more likely as town to see the people pushing you as misguided townies

you're acting under different circumstances, and one of those circumstances is your alignment

[fireisredsir]

It's strange that people started saying I sound like I don't want to be here when I in fact just started getting into the game and trying

yea it was sort of the opposite for me actually

earlier i just kinda had a vague nullscumlean bc you didn't seem towny. but that can happen if you're town and just not really feeling into the game

but 2173 really reminded me of lake melancholy where you would sometimes like, do those quote analysis walls where you point out responses to things but then overall it doesn't really go anywhere and while you're doing it you sort of have this energy of like your heart isn't really in it

it just kinda feels like you felt obligated to try but you're just kinda like limply waving yourself in the general direction of stuff thats happening

and i thought the way you handled it live was kind of weird and felt like it was phrased in a way to encourage both sides but not really wanting to take one

so when i asked you to take a stance your response of doing the post by post analysis but still not really taking a side felt weird and appease-y to me rather than something that came from a place of natural thought

[fireisredsir]

and like if you're town then i feel kinda bad for dumping on your attempt to get engaged in the game but like i feel like there's a disconnect between you saying that you really feel its important and the way that you handled it

like that feeling of importance has to come from somewhere

[fireisredsir]

its also just something i like to do as scum, if i see a moment of interaction where i can tell the energy feels off somehow is just fixate on that moment and try to work out the different angles of who could i could push as scum as a result of it

whereas i think town is more likely to have something specific that triggered their interest and have a worldview that they build around the situation. it still feels to me like you're just trying to poke holes in whichever side you can

[fireisredsir]

like for me the way i read the situation is that it feels like penguin jumping on someone who he feels like is pushing him with weak/fallacious reasoning, and there's a kinda indignation behind that, in a way that i think fits with what i would expect from town penguin

titus i think is scummier bc it felt like she did a little bit of her lawyery moves where she slightly dodges the point after making a bad one and makes it about something else, and that plus the "penguin is 100% scum here" really reminded me of how she argued as scum in datisi's cafe

[fireisredsir]

ok yea thats fair, i don't mind giving it time, there's a lot of people i think are scummy rn tbh

which thank god, always prefer that to the opposite

[fireisredsir]

not necessarily get town read or anything like that

the reason i felt it was to get townread was bc it came after i kinda specifically called him out on his initial engagement with it, so it felt like he was like trying to damage control that or something

[fireisredsir]

im not feeling it quite as much as i was earlier (maybe just bc she hasnt really been here that much lately and out of sight out of mind and that should actually be more of a reason to be suspicious lol) but still think she's more on the scummy side

i think it was more that i lost my townread on her than me and so the delta felt significant rather than actually having any specific reasons to think she's scum

[fireisredsir]

also this is off topic but i kinda want to hear more people's thoughts on this and i don't think there's much point in hiding it so

i have info about scum roles

pregame, scum were able to choose two of their own roles to swap amongst themselves. they also were able to choose one role to activate

[fireisredsir]

i don't know that for certain but i think that's the implication yea

[fireisredsir]

the only additional clarification i was able to get is that the swap means the entire rolecard, so that would include clans

[fireisredsir]

thats the extent of the info i have.

they get to swap 2 of their own roles, basically just switch the places of two scum players. idk how you would think they could alter town roles???

[fireisredsir]

is it dumb of me to think that was an attempted dumbtell cause idk how anyone could possibly genuinely think that was a possibility if they thought about it for more than 2 seconds

[fireisredsir]

ok yea i just figured that out lol my bad

the way its phrased implies there was only the possibility for one swap

[fireisredsir]

assuming there's 5 scum, yes, that would be right

[fireisredsir]

oh i would not have thought to look there, i just read the start of game rules posts

ok thats cool

[fireisredsir]

IS T3 REALLY SCUM WHO CAN'T FAKE READS OR ARE THEY TOWN WHO IS UNINTERESTED IN PLAYING THE GAME?

the takes they have don't really feel real tho

like uninterested town i think usually looks different. i don't really get how saying "I'm having trouble formulating thoughts, please ask me questions" and then just not really answering most of them fits in to uninterested town

[fireisredsir]

prob yea, if they're town i don't really get where most of their thoughts or reads are coming from or why they aren't really interested in explaining them

what do you think

[fireisredsir]

the takes they have don't really feel real tho

What takes are we talking about here?

We've not got much, and there isn't anything extra in Windclan, but a fair bit of what he said has been thoughts and feelings I've had at points in the game, even if I have moved on since, which seems to me would more closely fit the model of uninterested townie.

Take, for example to reasoning, on Titus: I know it's something that's taken some pushback, including from Titus herself, but it was a feeling I had and discussed in Windclan before either Titus or T3 joined.

i don't think the reasoning expressed about titus matches up with her placement on the readlist and its hard to believe that reason, while fine on its own, is enough to make titus a 2nd to top townread. i guess you could argue that if they're making up a reason then why say the bit about "nothing much about her play has made an impact on me" but idk

i felt like a lot of the takes in 1441 felt unnatural. like the one about me, i have no idea why thats supposed to be meaningful or even what they're referring to, and when i asked about it they never responded. and there's a lot of "this person is scummy. no wait, they aren't" but with no explanation of why and it feels super like its trying to look like a fake thought process/progression but idk why you would even take notes like that bc how is that ever going to be useful

i would feel better about it if they explained their thought process on stuff but they keep not really ever expanding on that and not getting engaged with people who are trying to question them

[fireisredsir]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

who specifically would you say has overblown confidence

[fireisredsir]

does anyone think kittytacky and t3 are scum together

I guess I don't really but I don't have any reasons besides vibes and I'm lightly town reading Kitty now

but I think if these wagons are t/s then scum are absolutely going to be moderately to heavily bussing here

and if t3 is scum and kitty is town then i would not be surprised if the kitty wagon was all town

yea i would agree with the general principle that if there's scum in the consensus scumread low content posters then scum are gonna be like extra aware of that and probably would be more likely to bus than try to keep them alive

i did have the thought tho that if hypothetically there were certain players who were known for being pretty bus-happy then as scum they might try to break expectations by not bussing in what would otherwise be an obvious bus situation

but also i do kinda think its possible that kitty and t3 are both scum, the way that kitty moved onto there felt weird to me and could be motivated

[fireisredsir]

we're me, misty, ceph, and bell

i haven't really been paying attention to hoods, ours isn't getting used much at all

but i lean scum on misty and ceph and i think bell is probably town

[fireisredsir]

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

YES THAT MAKES MORE SENSE, I AM PARANOID TOO. I AGREE THERE IS LIKELY TO BE AN ACTIVE/TOWNREAD SCUM PLAYER. MY BEST GUESS FOR THIS PLAYER IS DATISI. WHAT I SAID IS A CALL OUT NOT A GASLIGHT, BECAUSE YOU ATTRIBUTED A CONVERSATION TO ME WHICH WAS SOMEONE ELSE (FIREISRED/CATBOI) WHICH SEEMS MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN WHEN SLEEP DEPRIVED.

i think she was talking about your 2190 which i didnt respond to bc i had already kinda talked about it and didn't feel like expanding

[fireisredsir]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

who specifically would you say has overblown confidence

I went back to actually look at the votes on T3 in detail and it was funny to me because most of them aren't actually expressing a strong level of confidence, just that he's potentially scum. I was mainly thinking of misty going "this can die" and scrdbear going after t3. you also seem decently confident from what I'm seeing.

Actually the people who are the most confident on T3 being scum probably have the least amount of experience with him so that tracks.

It still feels kind of weird that his wagon is that big this early in the day? Especially when the reasoning doesn't strike me as especially strong. But it might just be a repeat of Ircher.

that was closer to my impression (everyone just kinda being like "yea okay we can vote this") which was why i thought that characterization of it was kinda weird. i don't think anyone is really yelling for his head or has a confident case or anything

id say im more confident than "=rand" but not really that confident. it was originally more of a "vote a scumlean to make them do things" vote and then he hasn't really done anything since that feels towny so

its true i haven't played with him before, you think this is typical from him as either alignment?

[fireisredsir]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

Nah I feel coughing up a weird and mostly unexplained list after catching up for so long is scummy and not =rand.

This is a player specific statement FWIW. Like, yes, I think what he's doing is basically awful and completely unhelpful if he's town.

But in my experience T3 basically almost never explains any reads he has as town and when he does his justification is usually "it's just vibes" or something similarly empty. This happens basically no matter how much you prod him. He gets yeeted for it a lot, regardless of his alignment. Somehow this has not motivated him to stp doing this. If it were a completely unknown player I'd agree it's scummy in a vacuum. I'm just saying my expectations for T3 are not very high.

what do you think of dann's point that if kitty and t3 are s/t then its more likely that scum will be bussing than trying to save one of them

i kinda agree with it and that + the fact that kitty is actually like engaging and continuing to post and t3 is not really means imo t3 is the better flip here

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: fireisredsir

I no longer think mistyx is scum

hi whats up

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: alisae

im down

[fireisredsir]

i feel similarly to charloux here so i don't really get what catboi thinks is so bad about the post

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: alisae

im down

Why?

I see significant talk about Alisae in your posts but I get no idea of solid reads. Just text that makes my eyes glaze over.

i haven't really wanted to engage with alisae much bc they seem to intentionally be making it really difficult/unpleasant to engage with them

and i think that in itself is actually kinda scummy

i think in general, especially lately, their pushes have felt like they're more motivated by agenda than stemming from anything natural

there's been times where like tone has vibed as towny for me but i didn't like the back and forths with datisi and catboi at all

[fireisredsir]

i feel similarly to charloux here so i don't really get what catboi thinks is so bad about the post

you feel similarly to that dogshit word salad explanation?

yes

i think t3 is scummy but he feels kinda like, isolated. it doesn't feel like anyone is really on his side even if he's scum. if he flips scum it feels like the kind of flip where scum are fine with that happening

whereas alisae if scum feels like she's hard pushing scum agenda, has a lot of pushes that just vibe weird and could be looked at further to see what her goals might have been, that kind of stuff

so a scum alisae flip i think gives us a lot more info than a scum t3 flip. usually i kinda prefer to flip the lower content players bc they give us less to work with but in this case i think alisae kinda has been contributing to making the thread vibes unpleasant so i don't think it's really a bad thing either way

[fireisredsir]

you know bear there’s an old saying that goes “fire alone can save our clan”

you sure you wanna be preventing it?

thats me!!

[fireisredsir]

i think in general, especially lately, their pushes have felt like they're more motivated by agenda than stemming from anything natural

elaborate on this?

can't really iso dive rn, i can do it later, but one aspect of it was the way their read on kitty flipped and it felt like the reads they were expressing in hood (based on what val said, at least) were different than the reads they were expressing in thread felt like... positional. like they were angling for things rather than expressing natural thought

and i also don't like the way they've tried to shut down people from posting or people engaging with them, i don't think that feels town motivated, bc its not like scum!kitty or scum!bear are gonna charisma-post their way into getting townread by everyone. so them posting and engaging more is likely to be a positive thing for everyone's ability to read them

[fireisredsir]

i feel similarly to charloux here so i don't really get what catboi thinks is so bad about the post

you feel similarly to that dogshit word salad explanation?

yes

i think t3 is scummy but he feels kinda like, isolated. it doesn't feel like anyone is really on his side even if he's scum. if he flips scum it feels like the kind of flip where scum are fine with that happening

whereas alisae if scum feels like she's hard pushing scum agenda, has a lot of pushes that just vibe weird and could be looked at further to see what her goals might have been, that kind of stuff

so a scum alisae flip i think gives us a lot more info than a scum t3 flip. usually i kinda prefer to flip the lower content players bc they give us less to work with but in this case i think alisae kinda has been contributing to making the thread vibes unpleasant so i don't think it's really a bad thing either way

alisae if scum is more dangerous than T3 but that's not what charloux is arguing

he's arguing that somehow he is most confident in t3 being scum but alisae is "informatve" and if you haven't learned the words "info yeet" are a massive red flag I don't know what to tell you

he can't actually justify the read of why alisae is actually likely to be scum it just seems to have materialized from nowhere??

idk maybe im projecting my own thought process onto him more than i thought, but it seemed reasonable to me

i thought you were on him earlier for voting t3 despite scumreading alisae, idk why him voting alisae now instead is a problem for you

like you are scumreading alisae and just said it was your favorite yeet and yet you're voting someone who is also scumreading/voting alisae

[fireisredsir]

why is catboi like the only one to like ever be suspicious of me this game idgi

like I've so clearly not been around why am I not being pushed

do you think that people should think you not being around is scummy for you

idk why that would be the case

not being around as much lately seems p reasonable given recent thread state

you've been towny when you're here imo

[fireisredsir]

I just think I'm still well within my scum range and last time I was scum in a large I flaked out

I know it's not alignment indicative for me but I don't really expect everyone else to think that

I don't know I think I've been keeping a lot of thoughts to myself and slowplaying this game a lot so it's a little weird to me that I'm just flying under the radar

idk fire can you explain more what has been towny about me while I'm here? I feel like you would've reevaluated me by now

i think you keeping thoughts to yourself and slow playing is like exactly what i expect from you as town tho. that specifically was what i remember ari saying made you dangerous as town in turing test

you seem like you are clearly having thoughts under the hood and engaging with people when you want to

ive liked your gamestate observations and i think those are generally less likely to come from scum, at least out of nowhere

i liked your engagement with me earlier, felt pure and didn't give pockety vibes at all

idk i just haven't felt any reason to reevaluate on you since finding your d1 to be towny. i gave it some consideration after catboi's case but it wasn't really that convincing to me and then he later kinda took it back anyway

also tbh you being kinda missing lately does nothing to make me feel like you're more likely to be scum. id probably be more worried if it felt like you were trying to control things here, but ig it's true i don't really know how you like to play scum

why do you think i would have reevaluated you?

[fireisredsir]

i didn't know you were "townreading me for so long"

the last time you expressed a read on me was 1009

and id actually think it more likely that you make a show of being paranoid about me as scum bc you'd want to replicate past behavior (at least thats how i would be likely to play it in your position, and i get the feeling you have a similar style but thats kind of a guess)

as town i wouldn't expect that pattern to necessarily continue forever

i think ive gotten better at understanding your playstyle and reading you over time and i would expect the same from you

[fireisredsir]

idk setup stuff like that isn't usually something that sticks in my brain, especially early its just not really something that matters imo

on t3 what about it? specifically like what do you think i would be doing differently as town vs as scum

bc idk i can kinda see how you would think i could approach that situation this way as scum, but i don't see what about it makes that more likely

[fireisredsir]

i vibe with the town kitty points

especially the point that he is fighting not just to stay alive but also to get his own reads across and push the people he thinks is scum

i don't think thats something that's very present in his scumgame generally

[fireisredsir]

v cool

[fireisredsir]

That’s fair tbh. For a while I was hoping that my lim would go through and I had thoughts but it just felt like a waste of time posting those thoughts. I have a more fleshed-out case and clearer thoughts on Misty than I do on KT.

the thing is all of your thoughts still feel kinda like distant and disengaged

do you have any thoughts on like things that have happened recently? do you think there's scum pushing you?

you say you have a "more fleshed-out case" on misty but like... that's kinda unrelated to whether she's more likely to be scum that's like just focused on your own optics. its weird for scum to just like be blatantly honest about that lmao but its not really a towny thought process?

if you think kitty is scum and there was at some point a significant wagon on kitty then why didn't you ever push for kitty to be elimmed over yourself?

it just doesn't really feel like you care at all about finding scum or eliminating them

[fireisredsir]

i think most likely situation is they're masons and enchant didn't initially realize that protector of starclan = town

don't think thats really a contradiction at all, its marashu clarifying that enchant misunderstood, and enchant more or less confirmed that after

s/s and on different pages is obviously possible, but i kinda doubt it, and it'll get resolved anyway

i don't think s/t is very plausible

[fireisredsir]

i think marashu/enchant both town would say i'm more confident on enchant

(fwiw i think scum marashu town enchant never exists off this)

actually i don't really get the thought process here or which one you think is possibly scum or why

its hard for me to see how only one could be scum here so i don't really get this

[fireisredsir]

i think marashu/enchant both town would say i'm more confident on enchant

(fwiw i think scum marashu town enchant never exists off this)

actually i don't really get the thought process here or which one you think is possibly scum or why

its hard for me to see how only one could be scum here so i don't really get this

the world where one is scum is

marashu is town and misread that they were masons

enchant is scum who knows they are not masons and claimed that without bothering to think about it since they knew they wouldn't be a mason as scum

shiro claimed info on marashu yesterday for cred and/or because scum get some value of having both alive

i don't think this is likely but i would not completely rule it out

hmm ok i didn't really think it was likely that marashu had misread considering he specifically said that he was told shiro was a protector of starclan and said it was confirmed but ok

[fireisredsir]

i think most likely situation is they're masons and enchant didn't initially realize that protector of starclan = town

don't think thats really a contradiction at all, its marashu clarifying that enchant misunderstood, and enchant more or less confirmed that after

s/s and on different pages is obviously possible, but i kinda doubt it, and it'll get resolved anyway

i don't think s/t is very plausible

Gentle criticism. No reason to hand an answer to a potential scum player who might flub the answer.

i didn't do this tho i just restated what marashu had already said

bc apparently people didn't read it

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: titus

[fireisredsir]

Can someone summarize the Titus = scum case? I asked Titus to summarize the PP= scum case in the wind hood.

i think she's playing similar to how she played as scum in datisis cafe. the way she was pushing people based on a t3 preflip without actually having much of any reason to scumread t3 is similar to how she handled ircher there

specifically her 2037 into 2039 into 2040 is v scummy imo, that's basically the first place she even mentions a suspicion on t3 and she immediately pivots it into a partner read and a vote on norwee. she does vote t3 after that, but still she never really is giving reasons for why t3 is scum, just asking people to join and pushing for partners

related, i think the way she's handled penguin is super weird, i don't think her projected confidence there is really supported by anything she's actually posted, and she's focusing way more just on being confident than on actual reasons for why he's scum. their back and forth into her suddenly saying he is "100% scum here" just feels super faked to me. and she's still pushing there? it feels way more positional than a genuine read, like they got in a 1v1 and so she felt pressured to have to come up with a scumread there

also her 2012 just kinda feels like how she fakes town theorizing vca titus. the conclusions just feel a little hollow and almost random. i don't think the logic really follows to make datisi a good flip off what she said

in general i just think she kinda feels like a shell of her town self, like all the confidence and outward projection is there, but it isn't actually supported underneath that surface level. and i remember getting exactly that impression from her scum game recently so

VOTE: titus

[fireisredsir]

i agree that it should not be a thunderdome but i do think titus is likely to be scum

[fireisredsir]

i agree that it should not be a thunderdome but i do think titus is likely to be scum

If you think Titus is scum why are you against the thunderdome?

i think gladiates are kinda bad on principle and jumping into one immediately lets everyone else know they under no threat of pressure today

more likely scum also doesn't mean guaranteed scum. im not like locked in sure or anything. part of the point of wagoning is seeing how people respond and limiting options means that its easier for scum to hide

[fireisredsir]

and i also don't think titus pulls this as scum after what happened to mastina so

can you expand on this

[fireisredsir]

math, any thoughts on 3181?

[fireisredsir]

hmm idk do you think that no scum in this game is ever going to make a push where their confidence exceeds their justifications just bc mastina did that and died

i could see it if mastina was scum maybe but she was town

i just kinda doubt that's something titus would be thinking about here

[fireisredsir]

ig the teamsolving centered around that one read is also p similar but i think thats more just something that mastina and titus both do as either alignment

idk why mastina dying after having done it would make titus alter her play that much

[fireisredsir]

no one even knows who you're scumreading besides penguinpower

me bear and someone else i forgot

did i pass the pop quiz

[fireisredsir]

no but theyre not gonna do it in the face of pressure that they brush off as "my PoE is pushing me"

i just disagree thats like exactly what i think titus would do as scum

[fireisredsir]

I don't really feel like that was the point you were trying to make or at least I didn't get that impression and I didn't really get the impression that a 1v1 between Titus and PP was a serious matter of discussion. I do agree that limiting our elim pool to 2 players in a matter of a few hours isn't a very good idea but I also just think Titus is scum, lol.

how much have you read?

[fireisredsir]

I'm a stray. Someone adopt me.

I think Titus is town here. Titus doesn’t usually crumb (although sometimes does) as scum. It’s almost a dead give away she’s town here. A lot of people here have played with Titus before so I am curious why people who know her are scumreading her.

idk if that applies here considering she obviously did have the power to join a clan, and that was obviously going to resolve itself sometime soon. it's not like she's limiting her future fakeclaims or anything, it's something that she's already locked into regardless of alignment

going out of her way to crumb something that was self-resolving and mod-confirmed seems more performance than anything to me, idk what the point of town crumbing that is

[fireisredsir]

i just played with scum titus and im saying that this looks like that

thats like a big portion of that post

[fireisredsir]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89922

i think its also kinda similar to what i read of her posting in the multiball large, specifically the vibe of having kind of a shell of surface level confidence but without any support backing it up

[fireisredsir]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89922

i think its also kinda similar to what i read of her posting in the multiball large, specifically the vibe of having kind of a shell of surface level confidence but without any support backing it up

I kinda see this on a quick skim but I don’t.

I guess the big question for those who have read the thread is has Titus been overall consistent?

Not the finer points but load broadly.

viewtopic.php?p=13507860#p13507860

In the scum game you linked she hates slips then argues something might be one. That’s a “broad” inconsistency.

Has she done any “broad” inconsistencies?

i thought that the way she started her VCA and found it led towards wanting to flip datisi for info and then basically dropped that immediately and started going in another direction was inconsistent. it didn't feel like there was anything behind the vca theorizing and it was just looking for something to do. more of a mindset inconsistency ig

but anyway are you saying she has a broad inconsistency of this level in every scumgame bc idk if that's really likely to be true

and i thought you said she made less sense as town

[fireisredsir]

Yes, but she also didn't fully explain her claim (nor was it really a good claim anyway) and even after she was caught in a lie she didn't make a follow-up claim that made mechanical sense. I guess that could have been deliberate, but it looked like it was a genuine error to me.

i thought she did extremely well given the circumstances in coming up with a claim that even came close to making sense given there was literally no way out of that situation

i don't see why what she did this game would be at all difficult to fake

there's also a huge difference between coming up with a fakeclaim, and knowing exactly what mechanical info you would have as town and being consistent with that mindset. i think the latter is easy and she is more than capable of that

[fireisredsir]

ceph made me laugh for the first time this game. townlocked

[fireisredsir]

math getting the alisae slot is kinda funny to me bc reading both of their posts make me tired and not want to respond

[fireisredsir]

bear, chill

[fireisredsir]

I have an important announcement.

Due to things that have come to light and

Unforeseen Circumstances

, we as the wind clan have come to a decision that we must act with quick haste.
In part of this decision, we will now attempt to back the following motion.

VOTE: T3

It gets better if you vote him before he shows any signs of life

can someone from windclan paraphrase the discussion that preceded this

[fireisredsir]

Might as well disclose it since scum likely know by now.
Titus joined Wind Clan and I asked in wind clan if we could potentially flashwagon T3 since I townread everyone else in hood. This makes sense since we were talking about if there was scum in the hood and I thought if there was scum in our hood its probs just T3.
Norwee agreed with the idea so I went with it. I obvs couldn't get to check in with Val or Shiro about it since time was kind off of the essence. It was an idea worth trying because maybe if we did say eliminate T3 and flip him before he could tell scum that Titus joined Wind Clan, that would be a huge edge to have over scum. This is assuming he does flip scum ofc.

ok ig it was explained later was more just wondering who started this discussion

i was kinda thinking it could have been someone else who had the idea and then alisae jumped on it to get ahead of things and take credit for starting the push in the main thread, but if they were the one who brought it up originally then that kills that idea

not like its impossible they decided to hardbus there tho

[fireisredsir]

If no one is solving Titus is town.

my issue with this is that you're making these like generalized conclusions about the gamestate when like... ok your point here i think is that if titus is scum, then the other scum would be hunting for places they could counterwagon

which, first off, they might not even want to save titus considering she's barely playing at this point, maybe she's a lot cause. or at least they don't want to actively look like they're doing that

and second, that's still only 3 people. looking at the entire game and saying that nobody is solving, therefore the lead wagon is on town, is just... not really a valid conclusion? not everyone can be scum

its like in the go game where you said that 2 unclaimed masons had gotten run up and therefore scum must have been in control of the game

both times you're ignoring that the vast majority of the game is town and scum can't be doing everything, and usually isn't even going to be doing that much bc most scum want to blend in

and considering the way t3 died yesterday i kinda don't get the feeling scum has a ton of control over what the gamestate looks like