Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Bunnyonce]

Not saying I'm Cult, but if I was I'd be Solar.

And I'm not saying we'd recruit you, but if we did it would be into the Lunar cult ~

VOTE: Child of fairies

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Also

@mod

:

¤

Do not

use anything not originating from this game in order to influence your play.

Does this mean we can't reference meta? Or is this a more standard no OGI/no trust tells clause?

¤

Day Cycle

The game starts in Dusk phase, then changes to night phase, then changes to dawn phase, then changes to noon phase. Most actions are performed at noon or night, eliminations

Might want to fix that?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Other head checking in.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

REJOICE! For your SAVIOR is--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi I am a maso--oh, wait, this is a cult game, I shouldn't open with that.

Hi, I am town.

(Okay but for real, I intend to be a BEACON this game, REVEALING the TRUE COLORS of all.)

shifty is patent protected btw.

I am Talia. Believe it or not, it's true. As true as the fact that Aegon the Conqueror had two wives.

Who is talia?

This is fascinating though and I want to say it loud what most probably thought about too:

Meg, is there any public information about Dusk/Dawn phases? Are they different?

Both Dusk and Dawn function as normal Mafia game eliminations, as well as Noon and Night function as normal mafia game night phases. They are functionally identical except they are distinct.

So it seems that Noon is the night phase for the Solar cult and the night is the night phase for the Lunar cult. In other words, based on flavor we can guess that the cults are even/off phase mechanically. But guess we'll see when we go

Anyways missed you, my friends. long time no see <3 been a while since I played a game here

VOTE: Bunnyonce

Both Aisa and I think

Frozen Angel

is town for this post.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Both Aisa and I think Frozen Angel is town for this post.

~Greeting

Why?

Speaking for myself: the mechanical speculation and her enthusiasm seemed towny.

I guess you could argue that's a level 0 take, but whatever.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Both Aisa and I think Frozen Angel is town for this post.

~Greeting

Why?

Speaking for myself: the mechanical speculation and her enthusiasm seemed towny.

I guess you could argue that's a level 0 take, but whatever.

-Aisa

I mean, I'd probably argue that it's very easily faked.

That is pretty much what I meant by "level 0". Do you have any early read on the slot yourself?

[...]

Both Aisa and I think Frozen Angel is town for this post.

~Greeting

Why?

Speaking for myself: the mechanical speculation and her enthusiasm seemed towny.

I guess you could argue that's a level 0 take, but whatever.

-Aisa

Not bugged by a random early shallow read being dropped in page 2. I'm just curious why you felt you need to share it in the chat and in that tone and I'm not the type the ignore the reads on my slot even if they shallow

the way its phrased and followed is bugging me in ways
[...]

Oh, we felt the need to share it for a very, very deep reason. The conversation went like this (paraphrasing):
Greeting: "I think that post by Frozen Angel looks town"
Me: "Me, too, actually"
[later]
Greeting: "I wanted to say something but I didn't know what to say"
Me: "You could say we both think that post is towny"
Greeting: "ok"

The "whatever" is probably a bit dismissive, sorry Radja!

FA, I'm guessing it might be bugging you because I sound a bit wishy washy? I guess the way it was worded was my attempt to communicate "This is a random early read please don't take it too seriously aaah"

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

What does awareness of postcount have do with anything?
-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Both Aisa and I think Frozen Angel is town for this post.

~Greeting

Why?

Speaking for myself: the mechanical speculation and her enthusiasm seemed towny.

I guess you could argue that's a level 0 take, but whatever.

-Aisa

I mean, I'd probably argue that it's very easily faked.

Why would

Frozen Angel

want to fake this post and not post something else if she's scum?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

"Both Aisa and I think Frozen Angel is town for this post."

I actually felt like it wasn't worded for a wishy washy read. I felt it was worded strongly for a wishy washy read and then you went downgrading it as it went questioned. It just doesn't fit with tone is all I'm saying but I'm just gonna keep note of that for now

Why do you think that the way I phrase my posts is alignment indicative?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

"Both Aisa and I think Frozen Angel is town for this post."

I actually felt like it wasn't worded for a wishy washy read. I felt it was worded strongly for a wishy washy read and then you went downgrading it as it went questioned. It just doesn't fit with tone is all I'm saying but I'm just gonna keep note of that for now

Why do you think that the way I phrase my posts is alignment indicative?

~Greeting

I just said it bugged me cause it has tone-meaning inconsistency. It's not "alignment indicative" on its own at least.

what are your reads besides that "level 0" town read on my slot from everything else that's being said?

I don't believe you'd expect me to declare you town with 100% certainty so early. But I do think that post is indicative of you being town. I don't think that if you were scum, you'd make such a post just to maintain a facade.

As for my other reads, I will speak of them later. Maybe after I've consulted with Aisa first.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

There is this minigame I like to play from time to time called "guess the head". I'm particularly intrigued by who is Mumps, who is Measles, and who is Rubella.

[...]
But that doesn't matter to me as much as how you contradicted yourself on tone there in a way later on, at first saying yeah its a town read and both heads of hydra fully agree and then falling back on the read and claiming its just a hunch practically without any other development in game to justify the tone switch. Like I don't hold people responsible that much for their page 2 reads but I'm looking for people developments from one point to another to judge if it was faked or not

I'm pretty sure it was just slightly unfortunate wording on Greeting's part. He could have said "FA is towny" instead of "FA is town" in the initial post and then we wouldn't be here having this discussion.

I realise this is an easy thing to say to cover up an apparent inconsistency after the posts have been made. I don't think there's anything more I can do to change minds at this point, so I'm gonna move on.

[...]
what are your reads besides that "level 0" town read on my slot from everything else that's being said?

Just from browsing the thread right now, and without having discussed with Greeting, I feel like the Past Present Future slot might be Town. Call it vibes idk, just feel like their posting is on par for the course so far.

I'm gonna take it slow I think, I don't really know how to handle a good chunk of the playerlist and I don't really know what to do with the multiball aspect of the game.

-Aisa

Ugh

[Bunnyonce]

So it seems that Noon is the night phase for the Solar cult and the night is the night phase for the Lunar cult. In other words, based on flavor we can guess that the cults are even/off phase mechanically. But guess we'll see when we go

This is probably a +town observation?

Bunnyonce says the exact same thing and can be town for it as well

58 reaffirms that Bunnyonce is obvtown

Most of my reads are the exact opposite of how mastina reads them and that confuses me

Why is 58 obvtown?

Gonna full solve the game with Bella tonight

Looking forward to this though

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

What's alarming to you about that STD post?

I don't plan on learning the mechanics are they difficult

quote for reference

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

[...]
(Yes I am aware that's too few scum since the approximate amount should be 6, so I'm townreading slots I shouldn't be, but for now, this'll do.)

What makes you think 6 is the approximate amount?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

VOTE: professotic

Probably my best scumread so far. Not the strongest, but I'm fairly confident there's enough odd stuff going on with this slot.

I've played with tictac briefly. Never played with ProfessorDrapion, but witnessed him play in Mini Normal 2280, which I hosted. They don't sign their posts, but from what I've read, I would estimate like 70-80% of content comes from tictac and only 20-30% comes from ProfessorDrapion. And this is the first thing that is off about this slot. In my experience, tictac has been less active than he is in his past games and ProfessorDrapion has been one of the most active in Mini Normal 2280. Even if his posts didn't give too much content, he was always kinda there. This activity pattern makes me think that they might have decided to let tictac lead the way and ProfessorDrapion take a step back.

I've had a bad vibe from

Enchant

's entrance post too. Obviously I know it was RVS, yadda yadda etc. But still, at the time

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

made 26, I thought this is a valid early read, and

professotic

(most likely the tictac head) coming after

Scarecrow

posting this was unwarranted (60). Also, the vote itself (31), RVS or not, came chronologically before the justification for it (60). None of these two things would bother me so much individually, but in combination they are giving me en err vibe. So that's the second thing.

I don't buy the

furtiveglance

townread at all. In my experience, he's been quite active and actively scumhunting in his past games, and I get the feeling that he doesn't care that much about this game at all. This doesn't really warrant townreading him, especially with such confidence. That's the third thing.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

[...]
(Yes I am aware that's too few scum since the approximate amount should be 6, so I'm townreading slots I shouldn't be, but for now, this'll do.)

What makes you think 6 is the approximate amount?
-Aisa

Basic math.
There's 17 players in the game.

If there's 4 scum per faction for 8 total, that's 8 scum to 9 town. Town would legitimately only have a one-player lead over the scum.

If there's 2 scum per faction for 4 total, that's a ridiculously small scumteam for both. I suppose two per team is possible if they DO have a recruitment mechanic, but if the game lacks a recruitment mechanic or has it be incredibly gated, then the approximate amount should be three per faction.

I agree with your maths.

I asked because it is not obvious to me whether the cults have recruitment powers. As you say, the cults having decent recruitment powers would point more towards 2x2 scum on Day 1, so I wondered if "6 scum" was a perspective slip.

Sadly, I've come away with a whole lotta nothing. Your answer is plausibly your real thought process, but you sound so... composed, and I think you could have faked this post without too much trouble.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

[...]
I haven't actually read most of the thread yet, forgot how daunting Larges can be
[...]

I'm tempted to TR RR for this.

Busy today so this will be the extent of my contribution.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

I do agree with you that mastina's read on STD is a bit off. I don't feel like his content at the time when she made the read, was exactly that Towny.
UNVOTE: FA for now.

That's the thing tho.

STD's town/scum meta are night/day different. And this game STD is a beacon of light. This is his towngame through and through. He's literally radiating his alignment, a shining beacon of towniness. He is town, 100%. Like, genuinely top-tier townread, town. He cannot be scum here.

Frozen Angel also has a town/scum meta that are night/day different. The asterisk to my read on FA here is that I don't know which is which.

I KNOW that FA has a night/day difference in her town meta and her scum meta.
I'm PRETTY sure that this is the night half, that this is the scum half, that this is FA as scum. But the asterisk on my read is that I might be remembering it backwards. I'm PRETTY sure I'm getting it right that this is the scum half tho.

I have never seen

FA

as scum. As town she's normally rather helpful and cooperative, and I believe that is how she's been so far.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I feel like this game has been going for a while now and there's many slots that haven't really done much.

Enchant

?

T-Bone

?

furtiveglance

?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I agree with the bad vibe

Radical Rat

expressed earlier about

professortic

and I think it's a genuine vibe (80).

I don't really understand the case on

T-Bone

though. I feel like he can be scumread for not contributing much to the game. To me, 151 and 152 sound like filler posts. But I do not see the associative read with

mastina

. Care to explain, @

RR

?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Save The Dragons

is being cranky in this game. I get cranky from time to time as well, and it's usually when I'm town, and when town pisses me off. Not saying this is a townread, but I think it happens to town-aligned players more often than mafia in general. I'm not willing to vote there at this stage of the game at least.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I'm around for the next hour or so in case anyone wants to chat. I'm rereading the game and am on page 6 rn.

Also, given all the talk of FA's meta I thought I'd dig out some old games of hers.
Town game: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67961
Scum game: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=66946

I didn't read either super closely, but I couldn't pick out an obvious difference between the two games. Maybe mastina would like to finally confirm for us if she thinks FA is in her scum or town meta?

(Sorry if this has been done in the last few pages, catching up now!)

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Do you think this is a cult recruit game y/n?

Do you think the wagon you’re on is towndriven? Do you think there’s scum on it?

I'd go 60% cult recruit, 40% no cult recruit. I think this:

¤ Limited Reveal Factional abilities will not be revealed when a faction member dies. Role abilities and alignment still flip as normal.

is completely consistent with Meg first deciding that they want to use limited reveals for the game, then wording that message in the way they did wifom us. There's also the fact that there is

something

bastard in this game and cult recruitment would explain that very nicely. There's

also

the fact that as it is we're kinda forced to assume that there could be a cult, and why do this to us if the game is not at least cultish in some way? Although maybe some information will be revealed later?

I'd like to know why you think this is a relevant question, actually.

Gut says there's scum on the professotic wagon rn. Greeting's been following professotic more closely than me so far, but from what I've read so far a lot of the scumreads feel kinda superficial.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Thanks for the reply. What made you want to ask me about the mechanics now? I mean, it's Day 1 ("Dusk 1") and I don't really have any privileged information.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Ok, fairz! I wondered if maybe you were trying to fish for information but maybe not. Would curious to hear your setup spec once you have thoughts.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Ooof I didn't I would need so long to read 15 pages @_@

Yeah so
1. Turns out I'm not really convinced by the proftic cases so far. UNVOTE: . Sorry other head!
2. My townread on FA is evaporating. Sorry other head!

@FA

, I'd like to hear what you think of mastina's read on you?
3. I agree STD seems town and I think post 191 is a reasonable against FA for this point in the game.
4. I'm not really sure why mastina would bring up meta reads without explaining what the meta she has on those players is,

I would like her to explain the meta tells she is using

.

I'll talk to Greeting about finding a new vote we can agree on.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

VOTE: furtiveglance

Greeting says that the town!furtive he knows is a lot more outspoken and solvey. I countered that maybe furtive just hasn't gotten into this game yet, but Greeting rightfully points out we can vote him for pressure if nothing else. Looking at furtive's ISO I'm starting to suspect Greeting actually has a point, furtive feels like he's lacking a certain fire for solving the game.

Do you wanna talk about Radja, furtive?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Lol really?

Like this is ridiculous.

Mastina I think scum slipped hard with the 6.
No one bothers to track her down or ask why until Bunny,

Instead people focus on FA minutia that’s absolutely less than what Mastina did.

Titus who is a person who loves to read by mech didn’t point anything out? Instead she wants Bunny who quite frankly is one of the few towntold people in my catch-up and professor why? That makes no sense. She’d also support a lurker wagon on my slot specifically despite the many lurkers.

StD is very tunnelled if town at this point to argue FA is scum but yet not notice Mastina mech

The arguments are contradictory and non existent.

Instead you just call the slots “Townie” and therefore I am scum.

That conclusion doesn’t follow any premise. It’s well known that I tend to disagree with popular opinion at times no matter my alignment.

This entrance I assure you is 100% something I have done as town and I will do and continue to do so.

This is a whole lot of nothing burger.

I have played with

mastina

and, in my experience, it is absolutely in her meta to make assumptions like this and follow up on them.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I'm still here, still haven't properly read. My less-busy section of week is approaching and I'll do a proper reading then, pinky swear.

For now though, rough instinct says MathBlade Town.

Why? And can you answer 313?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Feelings are not a towntell or scum tell. Only tell by feelings is when you see a pattern of them that make sense together or prove they were faked. the pattern can be by meta ofcourse too with lesser validity.

but you cant use your own meta to make a read on another person feelings.

Of course I can. I'm not some kind of robot, and I don't think

STD

is either. A lot of human thought patterns are shared.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I would be lying if I said I didn't power skim the last 15 pages, I'll try my best to still make sense.

I have never seen FA as scum. As town she's normally rather helpful and cooperative, and I believe that is how she's been so far.

~Greeting

I don't get it. why everyone is forcing themself to write something about my meta? how is that even helpful to form a read on me?

...Greeting's read on you is based on meta, why wouldn't he explain that?

I kinda like mastina's case on MathBlade, actually. I don't have a ton of experience with him, but the one game we did play together he did a lot less self meta and that throws me off?

I still think mastina should make a decision on which side of FA's meta we are in and be forced to defend that decision.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

@FA, what do you think of Radja's explanation of why they commented on our post, but not other similar posts?

[...]
Don't think it's Mastina either

Why not?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Today's update:

Maybe mastina would like to finally confirm for us if she thinks FA is in her scum or town meta?

I already did, repeatedly.

My stance on FA I really don't get why y'all don't understand it, I'm being as clear as I can.
[...]
I am

pretty

sure that this meta is FA's scum one. So I am

pretty

sure that FA is scum. I KNOW she has a night/day difference between the town/scum metas, can SEE the difference in live time. But I'm rusty on FA and can't FOR SURE remember it, in spite of being pretty sure it's the scum meta.

What I meant is that maybe you could have gone and verified which for sure which FA meta we were in. You've said you are busy, which is fine.

I also think this post makes it a bit better as you say you're

pretty sure

this is FA's meta. Your original post, as far as I remember it, sounded a lot less certain, I read it almost like you had no clue which FA meta this was and were pretty much taking a stab in the dark.
----
Don't really think the supposed "scumslip" mastina caught MathBlade on amounts to much, but I still find the rest of MathBlade's posting different enough tonally from the little I remember that I'm a bit suspicious. Math, do you think there might be an explanation for this? Heads up, I've only skimmed some parts of your discussion with mastina because it's quite long, sorry if I've missed anything.

Will talk to Greeting about this slot anyway.
----
I also think furtive looks townier from his recent posting. Maybe I'm too quick to townread based on the slightest evidence that he's scumhunting, especially since I guess he knows we are watching him, but a read's a read. Will also talk to Greeting about this slot.
----
I'm also back to townleaning FA.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

I don't support voting out

mastina

. I think she's town and her play is no different to what I've seen in my last game with her.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

As for

MathBlade

, I believe the slot is more likely to be scum than

mastina

, but not at all convinced that this is scum either. My biggest concern about the

MathBlade

/

mastina

feud is the conviction with which

MathBlade

believes that

mastina

is scum.

I think if Bunny was scum and this 6 was wrong they’d let it go uncorrected.
I think if Bunny was scum and this 6 was right and different teams they’d just note Mastina scum.
I think if Bunny was scum and 6 was right and same team then they’d let it go and hope no one noticed.

That 6 is incredibly odd.

At the time, I thought this was a bizarre assumption, but something I would expect of

mastina

. Me and Aisa spoke about this in our hydra chat, and, to be fair, I believe that if 6 players out of 17 were in anti-town factions, this would be excessive. It's more likely to be 2 scums for each faction.

But nah, I'll leave

MathBlade

for the time being too, unless Aisa thinks otherwise. This could very well be an extremely tunnelled townie.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

VOTE: Radical Rat

For dodging questions. Other head free to change it, but I would like to put some pressure there first. Aisa believes

furtiveglance

started to enact his town meta so we would be moving this vote anyway.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

VOTE: Radical Rat

For dodging questions. Other head free to change it, but I would like to put some pressure there first. Aisa believes

furtiveglance

started to enact his town meta so we would be moving this vote anyway.

~Greeting

This is a wolf using the blatant town read excuse to try to insist them to vote on the Rat wagon to save their teammate.
Classic wolf play.

Don’t fall for it Furtive.

What?

The

furtiveglance

slot's performance has improved recently and it was actually Aisa who pointed that out to me, which implies that she is starting to townread him. We are a hydra and we cooperate when playing the game so the vote was doomed to being moved anyway. Why are you indirectly defending

Radical Rat

, who actually did not answer my questions and made 11 posts as of page 43?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

If I had a vig shot, shooting

Enchant

would be a top choice for me.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I have a kill list. It's Maid Cafe, T-Bone, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Enchant mostly.

Pretty much agree with this list.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I've felt pretty lost.
Yume seems Town.
I also support Greeting thinking that MB is town. He is wiser than me and saw things that I didn't. He pointed out that Math seems to really believe in his push. Now I see the light too.
I am not sure why my other head suspects RR but I think a vote there seems fine.
I think the game would really benefit from somebody casing someone other than MathBlade or mastina, but I am not that person right now. Ha. Haha.

I've seen a question about why people tr mastina. Personally, from what I've seen she seems to really believe in her push. I don't know that I would care to case MB so relentlessly unless I actually believed in my read.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Yeah, I skimmed the last 10 pages and it's all the same old song.

@

RR

: Question was in 313.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

What's the current voting at? Can we get a counter wagon going or are we just done?

I don't think that much counterwagons have taken off.
I guess that either people want the Day to end or they are SRing mastina the most.
-Rubella

I do want this day to end, it's boring and no one's listening to me.

It's still the first day and I think that a lot of people's attention has been placed onto Math and mastina. Hopefully, Day 1 will be different.
-Rubella

If you look at the postcount, there is a ridiculous discrepancy between the amount of posts by the top 4-5 posters,

mastina

/

MathBlade

in particular, and the rest of the game. If I ever host a Theme game, I am doing post caps.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

By the way, why is Bunny in the same tier as RR in your readslist?

Because both are likely scum, and probably partnered at that.

@Bunny
What do you have to say about this?
-Rubella

I did read

mastina

's reasons for suspecting our slot and I think it has more to do with me than Aisa.

Mastina

seems to believe that scum me likes to play it safe and reserved, which isn't necessarily true. It's not as easy to predict my alignment. In my last scumgame, which I lost, I went for a rather proactive approach (Newbie 2100). I am more reserved in this game than usual, because a) work; b) very high volume of posts. Nonetheless, I do talk with my hydra partner daily and we exchange info on the gamestate all the time, so sometimes we speak for one another.

I still think that town!

mastina

could have gotten that meta read and it doesn't look contrived for the purpose of shading our slot.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I feel like RR and Bunny haven't interacted that much that could point to them being partnered.

That's

exactly

why they ARE (likely) partnered.

No seriously.

This is a multiball game.

"haven't interacted that much in ways that can point to them being partnered" is exactly what scum in multiball strive for.

Individually, I think both have decent odds for being scum;
Neither of them look like they're not scum with the other;
With neither as being a particular point of pressure, that kind of interaction suggests both scum together. Bunnyonce's vote on RR is fairly halfhearted especially given the wagon on me and no real effort from Bunnyonce to dismantle it. So the RR vote is fairly performative. Bunnyonce wasn't voting RR while there was a more competitive gamestate with multiple wagons, when RR votes had a chance to gain traction. Bunnyonce's vote on RR happened only after my elimination gained enough momentum to become almost an inevitabilitBree.

If we are scum with

Radical Rat

then what is the purpose of our vote? Not even my hydra partner is fully sold on the approach that I took earlier. But

Radical Rat

has been surprisingly idle this game. Just like

furtiveglance

, who started posting after getting some pressure.

If we are scum, why wouldn't we want to yeet you out of the game instead? At this stage of the game more attention is given to the players who are not voting you rather than your wagon. As scum we have little to gain by defending you, I just really believe that this matches your town meta. Aisa might be townreading you less than I am, but you're probably a townlean for her at least.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Wait, furtive, can you get back on Scarfman?
I was going to vote them to make a mini wagon. I have, like, a mini gut townread on DDS.

VOTE: Scarfmanship

Also: Ydrasse you legend

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Talk to me then T-Bone? I'm here for 15 minutes and will also be back in a few hours.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Lmao sorry. I kept being like "Hmm, maybe if I keep skimming this game for ten minutes a day, Greeting and I will eventually align on a scumread and then I will push it".

Turns out that that, uh, hasn't happened so I've decided to think pragmatically.

I think there's also someone who criticised us for being super lukewarm on RR and

not really

trying to build a counterwagon and I think that's fair soo yeah.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Lmao sorry. I kept being like "Hmm, maybe if I keep skimming this game for ten minutes a day, Greeting and I will eventually align on a scumread and then I will push it".

Turns out that that, uh, hasn't happened so I've decided to think pragmatically.

I think there's also someone who criticised us for being super lukewarm on RR and

not really

trying to build a counterwagon and I think that's fair soo yeah.

-Aisa

What if Greeting gets on and unvotes

I'm still figuring out this whole hydra thing, but if Greeting dislikes the vote then we're not voting Scarf. I don't know how what slot we'll vote instead, but we'll do our best to find something sensible!

Also, uh, for the record I just walked in, saw that Scarfmanship had posted something like "Given Yume's ability/read/whatever it is best to just vote mastina", thought I wasn't a massive fan of the tone, and was like uhhh I suppose I could vote there.

I promise I'll ISO you later for more reasons to be on the wagon
BUT
If there isn't much in your ISO atm I'd benefit from you talking me through a little

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Talk to me then T-Bone? I'm here for 15 minutes and will also be back in a few hours.

-Aisa

It looks weird to me that we're talking about a possible DDS vote, one happens, and you jump in to redirect. It's probably coincidence but damn if that doesn't look intentional.

Ok, can't really argue against "looks weird". I suppose you never claimed it was anything more

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Ydrasse, You say that I haven't done anything beyond that, but it worked. A wagon on me, while not the best outcome, does give fresh content to the game.

My nonanswer to your question is that I think furitive is town, and is like me but has more social capital. I think PPF votes me as either alignment because they have disliked me ever since i vaguely insulted them earlier. Dunno about the other two.

Also, there's another layer to calling for votes on DDS that (you plural)'re not seeing. Someone mentioned that DDS is a tertiary priority for people right now. I think mafia lives in tertiary priorities, and mafia lives in null reads, so if those reads are real, it's worth investigating. However, it's also worth investigating to see if the people repeating that DDS is null-scumlean are being genuine in their reads, or if they are parroting the consensus to sound town, so I wanted to see who was willing to commit to what they were saying. It also opens up the option to force potential mafia commit to a stance on a weak partner that they're not sure what to do with earlier than they want to. Or maybe we would have seen a lack of resistance which also would have been informative.

Because it is very easy to coast by shading the people everyone else is shading, complaining about mastina and mathblade, and get at minimum nullread for it.

-_-

UNVOTE:

Aaaah
I contemplated telling Greeting to do this in order to make it less embarrassing, but that would have been evil

UNVOTE:

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

@prof, no? Here is my current list. Greeting is the expert on his opinion so he can tell you about his reads when he is online.

Townread

MathBlade
Yume
furtive

Townlean

STD/Ydrasse
Scarf
mastina

Everyone else is sort of a shrug. Yes, I know I said I had a mini gut read on DDS as town, I don't feel like it's based on enough evidence to move them officially into the townleans.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Bunny does this sum up your readslist?
Mastina - PPF (Lock Towns)

I'd like to know why you thought this was a worthwhile post.

Wolves hard defending each other.

Assuming this is directed at us, how exactly does your theory fit into my latest unvote?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

@prof, no? Here is my current list. Greeting is the expert on his opinion so he can tell you about his reads when he is online.

Townread

MathBlade
Yume
furtive

Townlean

STD/Ydrasse
Scarf
mastina

Everyone else is sort of a shrug. Yes, I know I said I had a mini gut read on DDS as town, I don't feel like it's based on enough evidence to move them officially into the townleans.

-Aisa

Wait.
Is most of the others null, then?
Or am I missing your SRs?
-Rubella

Yeah. I mean, sometimes things ping me but none of the pings feel really stable enough to call scum. It’s not that I don’t have ideas at all, but developing the ideas takes time and somehow just hasn’t really happened this game.

I’m going to bed, bye for now~

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

I have taken

MathBlade

,

mastina

,

furtiveglance

,

Frozen Angel

out of the PoE for various reasons. But they all generally boil down to the fact that I have varying degrees of townreads on all of them. Aisa doesn't share my townread of

FA

, but upon the re-reading of

FA

's ISO, I decided that I am confident enough to leave her be.

I actually supported the

Scarfmanship

vote. I feel like 1727 is 100% fakeable. It's also a really conveniently fakeable post for a scum to make. It does not antagonise anyone. It provides content without providing content, as the content is very generic and referring to general concepts. I don't think they have contributed much to the game in general either. Another thing I don't like about this slot is 1716. Generating activity in games is a game mod job. From the perspective of town, the volume of posts matters less than the quality of them and the general ability to town sort people from those posts. So yeah, just generating content makes more sense from a scum point of view rather than a town point of view.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

*waves*

Bunny does this sum up your readslist?
Mastina - PPF (Lock Towns)

I'd like to know why you thought this was a worthwhile post.

Wolves hard defending each other.

Assuming this is directed at us, how exactly does your theory fit into my latest unvote?

-Aisa

@prof

, do you not find it worthwhile to engage with our slot at all?

The one CW I would not oppose to is a Bunny CW.
I think they are aligned with Mastina and this last post from them feels like something where I feel is more likely to come from a wolf then town.
“Oh you know pings”

Cause man trust me when I’m a wolf I’ll do stuff like “I’m conflicted”
“If I had to guess probably them” or make like random solves or theories.

That post gives me a wolf making fake reads feel.

If you think we are scum with mastina then what's the point of making a counterwagon to mastina by voting us?

[...]
What about Greeting? Does he have anyone he’s suss on?

Think I'm gonna talk about this in my next post.

Actually my comment about the Math/Mastina read thing might not completely hold.
Since Greeting’s was the one who said they TR Mastina higher and not Aisa.

However, even so I think they should have had a similar read in that regard or have talked about it?

We've talked about it a bit both before and after the post. As others have pointed out, we both TR Math and mastina to some degree, both now and before you made that post.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Greeting and I had a longer catch up and we both agree that we want to vote here.
VOTE: professotic

We're obviously biased by knowing our own alignment, but we don't like Prof's push on us. As far as I can tell, it almost entirely comes down to us being scum with mastina. professotic make the following points:

Spoiler: Point 1

@FA, what do you think of Radja's explanation of why they commented on our post, but not other similar posts?

[...]
Don't think it's Mastina either

Why not?

-Aisa

Just seems towny n that. Granted I only have 1 towngame of experience with em but still

Hot Take:
Bunny is wolves with Mastina and is talking to Furtive!Town here.
Which if you all look is something a wolf can do cause it could be done for serval reasons here that benefit them in that situation.

I’m the opposite.
I think how Bunny indirectly insisted on Mastina by asking furtive about their Mastina read.
I think that is likely what a partner does to try to avoid associating with the other one.

I asked furtive to explain with mastina is Town, which makes my slot partners with mastina.

Spoiler: Point 2

Math let me make something clear to you.

Furtive is less aligned with Mastina then Bunny.

Stop with your damn bias ness boy.

Like look at Bunny trying to push up that Rat wagon.
Bunny was using Furtive and purposely trying to make them look aligned with Mastina.

Your argument is also invalid cause as wolf idk about you but I’m not afraid to interact with my partners the same way bunny is doing to Mastina.

We pushed RR to defend mastina.

Spoiler: Point 3

I don't support voting out

mastina

. I think she's town and her play is no different to what I've seen in my last game with her.

~Greeting

@Math

Bro I’m telling you Bunny and PPF are both mafia desperately trying to save their teammate.

Greeting says he doesn't support voting out mastina, prof takes this as more evidence that we are trying to save a teammate.

Spoiler: Point 4

The one CW I would not oppose to is a Bunny CW.
I think they are aligned with Mastina and this last post from them feels like something where I feel is more likely to come from a wolf then town.
“Oh you know pings”

Cause man trust me when I’m a wolf I’ll do stuff like “I’m conflicted”
“If I had to guess probably them” or make like random solves or theories.

That post gives me a wolf making fake reads feel.

I made a hedgy post which feels like I'm making up reads.

@professotic:

1. Your read on us seems conditional on mastina being scum, but you seem really sure of our alignment. What makes you so confident?
2. What makes any of your points more likely to come from scum defending their partner rather than town?
3. What do you think of mastina's treatment of our slot?

[Bunnyonce]

The one CW I would not oppose to is a Bunny CW.
I think they are aligned with Mastina and this last post from them feels like something where I feel is more likely to come from a wolf then town.
“Oh you know pings”

Cause man trust me when I’m a wolf I’ll do stuff like “I’m conflicted”
“If I had to guess probably them” or make like random solves or theories.

That post gives me a wolf making fake reads feel.

If you think we are scum with mastina then what's the point of making a counterwagon to mastina by voting us?

Also, sorry, I noticed you explained this when you placed your vote.

[Bunnyonce]

Prof - I don’t think anyone’s votes here are immovable: I think you have a chance at convincing the thread your reads are right or genuine, if that’s something you want. I don’t know if this matters to you and it’s ok if it doesn’t, but if you come back and want to talk to us, I will read.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

I support the

professortic

wagon. My other head nailed all the reasons, this slot has progressed from the tunnelled town range into anti-town. Much better chances of flipping red than

mastina

.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Oh, and Aisa is being very nice and cooperative by asking

professortic

questions in that post, but I am not going to bother pressing them. That slot is clearly not interested in cooperating with us anyway.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

@prof, no? Here is my current list. Greeting is the expert on his opinion so he can tell you about his reads when he is online.

Townread

MathBlade
Yume
furtive

Townlean

STD/Ydrasse
Scarf
mastina

Everyone else is sort of a shrug. Yes, I know I said I had a mini gut read on DDS as town, I don't feel like it's based on enough evidence to move them officially into the townleans.

-Aisa

This readslist is still bad. Reads just don’t add up to what has been said.

*sighs*

Well, what has been said that should make

MathBlade

,

Yume

and

furtiveglance

scum in Aisa's eyes? I literally agree with her on half of these, but I can see her point of view on slots like

Scarfmanship

.

Are you actually reading the game and our posts or are you just bullshitting? Because I think the latter.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

@Bunny

You have the highest wolf equity with Mastina.
Even IF and that’s a big IF Mastina is town, that readslist still doesn’t make sense to me.

If we are wolves together then why would

mastina

be scumreading us for half the game and spend effort building a case on us? We didn't have a notable wagon on us on Day 1, we were not in danger of being eliminated. What would be the point of this strategy? Because I am failing to see this logic.

And, furthermore, if both of us are scums then why would you push us as a counterwagon to

mastina

? If you're going by this logic, either flip points red to the other anyway.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Read the game.


I stated why.

You push town CW, I make a wolf CW to a wolf top wagon.

Simple.

What is the point of a counterwagon in a mafia game in your opinion in general?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I think I'm going to unashamedly try switching to a different posting strategy with this game and start being a bit more stream-of-consciousness-y.

I think that my current process of roughly
A. skimming or reading all new posts, B. updating reads, C. considering if I can/should move my vote, D. making one consolidated post to communicate all this
isn't a great match for the pace of this game.

It remains to be seen if I will remember this in two days' time, lol.

Actually no I genuinely still want to vote Bunny, @TicTac
Why is bunny town?
Do you not see how the prior stuff said and the readslist doesn’t add up.

They mention FA Town read but doesn’t but it in readslist
They say Mastina above Math but put vice versa in.

mastina vs Math relative ranking:

-- Other slots have pointed out that Greeting is the one who thinks mastina is townier than Math. I am the one who posted the readslist.
-- You acknowledged this, backsliding means you're not being completely honest with yourself at best.

FA town read:

You point out a discrepancy between posts 46 and 1759. Crazy how I could have changes my mind with >60 pages of posts in between xx

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Being bad at mafia isn't a scumtell, and I think people voting for him for essentially that is sus. He shouldn't have moved his vote off his top scumread to start another vanity vote but a bad move is a bad move.

But on the flip side Prof is acting like he got caught for the wrong reasons. So like...?

Your posting after this shows you already understand this point, but I'm going to hijack this to talk about my thought process anyway

Yes, voting prof is far, far from a 100% scum hit rate, done deal, god's last word type of thing. I understand the concept that Town sometimes makes questionable calls. However, this doesn't imply that we should not scumread players for making badly justified pushes. That's an easy place to hide as scum. Poking and prodding around a read is a decent way of holding players accountable and can help sort.

It's an easy push, but that doesn't make it a bad push.

-Ai (feeling cutesy)

[Bunnyonce]

Anyway, oh dear, what to do with the vote? I would be very happy if one day would go by without me needing to consider this question.

[...] I'm sitting here tv static wondering why MMR/Bunny/Dumb get free rides sob [...]

Pot to the kettle xx
I agree with the sussing of this slot that some have done, particularly whoever pointed out that the effort Maria has put into actually trying to affect the game doesn't really match with the somewhat idiosyncratic reads she has.

RR likelier than Prof or Mastina I think, but all 3 are probably town

See, I'm sympathetic to this line of thought. (Sometimes - I don't want to commit to a read on professotic yet, I will say something about them in my next post.) But I feel like we've been through a fair few wagons and I'm a little tired of thinking, so I'm like hammerhammerhammer

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Would I be horribly out of line in thinking this looks kinda like Drapion going "Well, throwing a fit worked for mastina, maybe it'll save me too!"?

While this is not a bad thought, I feel like a town-RR would push it stronger.

Do you think I'm scum WITH professotic?

Because if you think we're not aligned, what incentive does scum!me have to pull their punches?

I think I disagree with mastina about that interpretation. The Town!RR I know is more of a "state an opinion once and be done with it" kind of person, I don't know if I've ever seem them repeat the same point twice.

However, not sure how I feel about RR's reaction. I've definitely forgotten we were in multiball at some points in this game (which is bad, I know). RR seems more focused on requiring reads to make logical sense than what I remember. However, I also believe them when they say getting rid of the other scumteam is the optimal play from their point of view, so I don't see why this deviation from what I remember of their meta would be scum-indicative. In other words, I have no idea how anyone gets anything done in multiball.

- Isa (still feeling cutesy)

[Bunnyonce]

Bahhh, sleepiness is catching up with me. The tl;dr on professotic is that I think that tictac's read on us is better fmpov than Professor's. Idk, I think our vote being there is still kinda fine and I can tell my brain is not going to be able to do better than that tonight.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

VOTE: Radical Rat

Me and Greeting in hydra chat are also both like "when will this day endddd" so I am Taking Action

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

I’m trying to show TicTac in hydra chat that Bunny is a very likely wolf and TicTac don’t see it for some reason.

Not just tictac.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Can someone please do something / state intent?
I feel like this day just needs to end

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Eternal sunset of the endless dusk

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

(Sorry RR, I do like playing with you)

I'm not even gonna claim I have a good reason to suspect RR. Like, they seem a bit weirdly certain of their takes? But also the day just needs to end. Flipflipflip.

Greeting seems pretty sure mastina is Town, so I don't think we're gonna switch to that wagon anytime soon

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Hot take: I think

RR

’s claim is true, but he is from Lunar Cult. I don’t know what the wincons for the two scum factions are though, if they don’t have to kill each other too then it might not be making sense.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

UNVOTE: RR
Think tomorrow

I also agree that Enchant does not always hammer

[Bunnyonce]

UNVOTE: RR
Think tomorrow

I also agree that Enchant does not always hammer

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Sorry for misgendering you earlier

RR

. If the scumteams need to yeet the other one, then in my opinion it makes sense for Lunar to have a defense against Solar.

I see Aisa has unvoted and I’m good with that for now. Will get back to the game after work.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Could someone please ask me a question?

I think it would help me re-engage with the thread. I'm also going to read the last ten pages now. I don't know what it is, but I have been struggling to engage with the game on a level deeper than "when can we yeet someone?".

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

What’s your opinion on MMR?

I felt very tempted to joke about the very popular (but false) theory that the MMR vaccine causes autism, but I like RH9 and Roden (don't know Ircher very well) so I didn't.

As for their in-game contributions, they are a nullread to me. Nothing from them really piqued my interest and I haven't been focusing on them at all. I don't know what's Aisa's stance on that slot though.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Could someone please ask me a question?

I think it would help me re-engage with the thread. I'm also going to read the last ten pages now. I don't know what it is, but I have been struggling to engage with the game on a level deeper than "when can we yeet someone?".

-Aisa

What’s your opinion on MMR?

Legend, I officially now love you Drap.
I'd say I townlean MMR.
I feel like some of Rubella's posts have a straightforwardness and plainness to them that is more easily achieved if they're actually town than if they're scum. Some of the posts read uninformed, like this one, and I'm inclined to guess it's a real lack of information, not a fake.

p-edit hi Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Okay so.

I can remove burns on people, and if I target someone on the same phase they would receive a burn, the burn is blocked. My target will be informed if a burn is removed or blocked successfully.

I have not been told what a burn actually is, but I assume it has to do with the nonstandard factional abilities. Solar Cult makes the most sense to be burning people to me in that case.

To explain why I unvoted RR yesterday in a bit more detail, I thought the claim sounded pretty plausible.

I didn't really think that deeply, but I also agree with this unwnd post. RR can remove existing burns, which feels a bit OP / supremely annoying for the Solar cult if RR were in the Lunar cult?

This said, depending on what mastina's claim is I kind of regret unvoting, I guess we'll see. I really want the day to end and maybe I should have just stayed on RR on principle.

I will leave you all in Greeting's capable hands and go to bed. He has my full support for voting whoever he fancies, especially if it will end the day, lol.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

UNVOTE:

Mastina is annoying me but I am reading what the system is saying.

As annoying as it is there’s no excuse for that.

Well done, we're getting nowhere now. She will just go on posting about literally anything but her claim.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim.

Doesn't work that way.

I finish in as much time as it fucking takes me to finish, so long as it's done on this day.

If I go to bed without finishing, sure. You can hammer.

But three hours, five hours, seven hours--however long it takes, is how long it takes.

My thoughts are mine, not yours. YOU do not get to set a deadline on when I have spoken my thoughts to my satisfaction. Only I get that. So it's ME who gets to say when I have finished and it is then I will claim--not a moment sooner.

You're wrong, but you're in luck, because some players in this game seem to be enjoying this never-ending madness, and they are enabling this behavior by dismantling your wagon. If, by some miracle, your wagon is back to E-1, I am hammering you Not_Mafia style and ending this charade. You have been asked to claim repeatedly by many players. If you're a town PR who refused to claim out of plain stubbornness the miselimination will be on you, and I will not be feeling any guilt for voting you out.

I think you're not making these long posts with the claimed intention of getting town to know your legacy better, but either to wear everyone down, mislead everyone or just for yourself.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

If you're a town PR who refused to claim out of plain stubbornness the miselimination will be on you, and I will not be feeling any guilt for voting you out.

I think you're not making these long posts with the claimed intention of getting town to know your legacy better, but either to wear everyone down, mislead everyone or just for yourself.

VOTE: Bunnyonce

Yeah this is scum.

This betrays a scum mindset. "just for yourself" would, explicitly, be town.
"wear everyone down" would be nai.
The only of these which would be scum is "mislead everyone", but I am gradually proving that to not be true by following through on it, so like: the proof it's not is right there.

So admitting that it comes from a spot of town and trying to shift the blame on it to me when there's no reason to rush, is scum.

Sorry for not wanting to wait another 5-7 business days for you to crumb the reveal of something that could just be said in one sentence. I uphold what I had said before.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

Hello
It's me
I know there's a wagon on us
Time to force myself to post in this game until I hopefully one day wake up and actually feel engaged!

Also, the system says it's our lovely mod's birthday today. Happy birthday Meg!

Spoiler:

I mean I scumread you for your very specific informed seeming play around Mastina. That post was just another example.

And those who scumread mastina aren't informed?! Screw that, if none of you are informed, you would have reconsidered! Which none of you except Mathblade did! And you stand here and tell me that's towny!

Mastina is my top scumread and the leading wagons. Mastina has done very little to town it up. What motivation do I have as town to dismantle the wagon?

More importantly if I'm informed that Mastina is scum...then you can lim her today and me tomorrow and bag two scum. But again, that's not a real thought.

It can be a real thought if Yume is thinking that T-Bone is scum and mastina is Town

Spoiler:

Well, I might as well say it, then. I sell prunes. That's the true nature of my check. It's also why it won't work in multiball.

Wait, serious question, is this a serious claim?

Spoiler:

Plus again you're not even speaking to the reality of the game. I am the only one scumreading you. Who are all these people scumreading you that you need to shut up?

Frustratingly it seems everyone else thinks that when you are scummy it's a town tell for you so good job I guess? Sorry, I believe everyone plays to the best of their ability and can't town read bad posts just because "that's the way they post". You're certainly smart enough to play into other players' perception of how you play, yeah?

You keep making a number of posts that I'd consider bad posts, but I think it's town indicative for you

Be specific.

So the root thing that irks me about your posts and general stance in this game is the hard and fast rules you set yourself and expect everyone else to follow when it comes to proper play and solving. You'll say things that are essentially 'this person is scum because this post is bad' that feel like takes that have very little to do with how likely someone is to be scum, and have a lot more to do with how you personally *want* town and scum to play. And that's really frustrating to me. I'm not here to have a series of logical arguments about a bunch of things that ultimately feel irrelevant to someone's alignment, I'm here to find and take out scum. The ballroom dance of hashing it out in a detailed argument often just favours the players who are best at playing that specific way, regardless of their alignment/accuracy/anything that actually benefits town. And so the way you just casually state what town should be doing and say that someone is scum because they aren't doing things that you think are beneficial just looks clearly innacurate as a way of solving to me.

You're probably town though, and I think that largely because of the way you are making yourself the center of attention narratively in the thread. You're doing more than you'd need to be doing right now for scum utility I think. You're also doing a bunch of things that don't intuitively make you look good to the thread at large, which I don't think you bother doing if you're scum here.

I'm not super interested in going into even more specifics than this because it doesn't feel like a productive use of my time. If you wanted like a selection of your own quotes from me or something then sorry, but I feel like this is as close as I can get to an accurate response to this.

I feel like this is a higher-effort post for scum to make than for town, ergo town indicative. I guess it's somewhat easier to fake in multiball, but I still the general point still stands.

Spoiler:

Well, I see no reason to continue. We'll all be rehashing the same argument, unless one side gives in.

VOTE: mastina

I am sorry, but sometimes sacrifices need to be made.

Doubtful. I've maintained I think you're scum if Mastina flips town (and vise versa if she flips scum), although I am surprised by your vote.

Sure it's possible. Your Mastina vote has shook my read to the core.

I don't understand why the vote of all posts would make you and others think Yume is town? I think I loosely TR Yume, but why couldn't she be scum voting town!mastina?

[Bunnyonce]

-Aisa

(sorryyyyy)

[Bunnyonce]

@T-Bone: thanks for patiently rehashing stuff you've probably said somewhere at some point :3

To circle back to your first question. This is multiball, the only way I or anyone can be informed of someone's alignment on Day 1 is if we're on the same scum team (or there is a role like mason). So it couldn't be true that I am scum who knows Mastina is town and trying to mislim her. At best I would be scum who knows Mastina isn't on my team.

Sure, I understand that. I think it still fits Yume's point for you to be scum in multiball, though. Her point is something like "You would have reconsidered your read if you weren't informed". Change the word "informed" to "scum" and the argument still works? Like, "You would have reconsidered your read if you actually cared about who we limmed beyond it not being you or your partner."

To answer your second it's because I was scumreading Mastina and Yume was defending Mastina so hard. It's a ballsy play by Yume if they are in fact scum, be a use all they have to do is sit back, let Ydrasse or whoever was gonna hammer instead, and then if Mastina flips town use that as an excuse to push the likes of me or Mathblade.

If Yume is in fact playing 4D chess by anticipating that's how I would read their play then my hats off to them there's nothing I can do.

Yeah, I've never really strongly bought into the idea that if someone is off a miselimination then they have more "credit" to push whoever was on the miselimination. I don't see what's so rocket-science-y about scum being on a miselimination and still pushing others on the same wagon the next day? Like, all you need to say is "I think someone misled us yesterday".

Because I had voiced that I was thinking if Mastina flipped town then scum!Yume was trying to pocket for towncred.

Am I interpreting this correctly? You voiced that if mastina is town, then Yume might have been trying to pocket her. So why is it impossible for Yume to predict that if she stops acting like she is pocketing mastina, then you would start townreading her?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

If I were scum, why would I want the one of few persons who can successfully peg me as such to replace in? To be clear, jjh can't be pocketed by me, so if you're thinking along those lines, you'd be wrong.

Also, Yume, is the fact that you sell prunes a serious claim?

Someone feel free to yell at me if this is not a question I'm supposed to be asking

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Spoiler:

Could someone please ask me a question?

I think it would help me re-engage with the thread. I'm also going to read the last ten pages now. I don't know what it is, but I have been struggling to engage with the game on a level deeper than "when can we yeet someone?".

-Aisa

What’s your opinion on MMR?

Well, I see no reason to continue. We'll all be rehashing the same argument, unless one side gives in.

VOTE: mastina

I am sorry, but sometimes sacrifices need to be made.

Yume is officially locktown now.

~Mumps

I said I townleaned MMR yesterday, but I do agree that this Yume locktown comment is strange.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Ok, thanks.

I made a list of all the claims I have seen so far:

Radical Rat

- Protects from and removes burns. The player they act on is informed if this happens. Works during Noon.

Mastina

- Town Limited Astrologer - Checks whether players have Sun/Moon attunements (all Sun/Moon Cult are Sun/Moon Attuned, but some Town have an attunement, too). She cannot target certain players, and will be informed in the event of that. She cannot target the same player twice. Works during Noon.

professotic

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

Scarf

Past Present Future

Yume

- something something check, something something prunes which is code for something.

Enchant

Bunnyonce

MMR

Frozen Angel

Maid Cafe

Mathblade

- Dusk 2 or Dawn 2 vig. Not a full claim.

furtiveglance

Ydra

T-Bone

unwnd

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

@unwnd

[...]
you use so much character space and verbal jargon to essentially say the same thing in every line.
[...]

Is it fair to say you scumread mastina partly because of this?

I have never played with mastina before and I agree that multiball probably interferes with whatever meta argument people may be trying to use to read her, so I'm far from a "mastina is posting therefore she is Town" purist.

Still, even never having played with her before, it seems pretty clear to me that writing long posts is just something mastina Does? When I see someone with an unusual posting style, I tend to just shrug it off and assume that's how they are as a person and that it is NAI until proven otherwise.

Does this like, make any sense to you, and how does it affect your read on mastina?

@furtive

The cult flip I am most sure on is now

VOTE: Ydrasse

Whyyy though

@DDS

{furtiveglance} (it still doesn't look like his play from Datisi's Cafe, but his play doesn’t actually look town and has many objectively scummy stances)

I agree with this and think furtive is likely to flip scum personally

Whyyy though and what are the scummy stances?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

@T-Bone: thanks for patiently rehashing stuff you've probably said somewhere at some point :3

To circle back to your first question. This is multiball, the only way I or anyone can be informed of someone's alignment on Day 1 is if we're on the same scum team (or there is a role like mason). So it couldn't be true that I am scum who knows Mastina is town and trying to mislim her. At best I would be scum who knows Mastina isn't on my team.

Sure, I understand that. I think it still fits Yume's point for you to be scum in multiball, though. Her point is something like "You would have reconsidered your read if you weren't informed". Change the word "informed" to "scum" and the argument still works? Like, "You would have reconsidered your read if you actually cared about who we limmed beyond it not being you or your partner."

To answer your second it's because I was scumreading Mastina and Yume was defending Mastina so hard. It's a ballsy play by Yume if they are in fact scum, be a use all they have to do is sit back, let Ydrasse or whoever was gonna hammer instead, and then if Mastina flips town use that as an excuse to push the likes of me or Mathblade.

If Yume is in fact playing 4D chess by anticipating that's how I would read their play then my hats off to them there's nothing I can do.

Yeah, I've never really strongly bought into the idea that if someone is off a miselimination then they have more "credit" to push whoever was on the miselimination. I don't see what's so rocket-science-y about scum being on a miselimination and still pushing others on the same wagon the next day? Like, all you need to say is "I think someone misled us yesterday".

Because I had voiced that I was thinking if Mastina flipped town then scum!Yume was trying to pocket for towncred.

Am I interpreting this correctly? You voiced that if mastina is town, then Yume might have been trying to pocket her. So why is it impossible for Yume to predict that if she stops acting like she is pocketing mastina, then you would start townreading her?

-Aisa

Re the first quote. I can only play based on what people say, not what they don't. Yume used specific language and never clarified their language or said 'oh I meant something different' so all I could do is use the language they used.

Re the second. Except that Yume specifically was claiming who they would go after if Mastina flipped town. Yume has consistently presented Mastina as town and their read as a forgone conclusion. So I was specifically reacting to the way Yume played.

Re the third quote. So again Yume was presenting their play that Mastina being town was fact. Not something they suspected, not something they merely read, but as something that was a fact. So, maybe Yume's vote is part of a master plan and you can make that argument if you want. It changed my view of Yume as a player because their vote went against basically their entire ISO.

First quote: that's somewhat fair, but I think that a balance needs to be struck between interpreting posts super literally and being too flexible. My judgment is that you were being too strict.

Second quote: hmm, ok, maybe.

Third quote: hmm, ok, maybe.

Have you arrived at a new read on Yume's slot or are you still trying to assess it?

[Bunnyonce]

Is it bad to say I've been hoping this would happen so it would put an end to this endless Dusk, and that I've only not said this earlier to avoid slipping our PR/not PR status?

Claim

Vanilla Townie

.

Please let me have ~20 minutes to get any last thoughts out and check the hydra chat with Greeting to see if there are any of his opinions I should share with you, too.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Last thoughts:
As I've been saying on and on, I haven't really felt able to sink my teeth into this game. I don't really feel strongly about almost any of my reads.

But, here you go. You never know that this might be useful.

Radical Rat

- I feel ??? about this slot. I think the claim of "burn" seems believable from a flavour standpoint but I agree with G it is not necessarily a Town claim. I kind of agree with a lot of things they say, but don't think they've really proved themselves. Greeting has wavered a bit - at timed told me they think RR is a deepwolf, at times said the slot could go either way.

Mastina

- Halfhearted townread for me. Basically what RR said - Math seems town and seems to believe that mastina must be Town. I've made various moaning noises to Greeting at various points about being suspicious of mastina, but he's always been adamant he thinks mastina is Town. He thinks that mastina town-sorting MB is a particularly good sign.

professotic

- ???. Read on us is pretty bad, but some of the stuff they post seems random in a towny way. Greeting has alsofelt a bit ambivalent about this slot.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

- Vague gut townlean but not really sure here. I don't think Greeting has said much, but I don't think he TRs them.

Scarf

- Not sure, but I don't really see this slot as very towny and Greeting also thinks it's a bit sus.

Past Present Future

- Greeting and I have actually both been a bit pinged by this slot and thought that they may be scum.

Yume

- I think this is Town, Greeting agrees. I just read the emotion as Town.

Enchant

- Seems towny, but not sure I'm the best Enchant reader. I think Greeting actually scumreads them.

Bunnyonce

- Did you know we wanted to call the hydra Bunnyoncé with the é?

MMR

- I have a townlean, but Greeting seemed sceptical when I explained why last night. I think he thinks their posting so far is still within the heads' scumrange.

Frozen Angel

- Greeting thinks she is in her Town meta. I don't know, mastina saying she is scum has gotten into my head.

Maid Cafe

- Maybe scumlean? I think Greeting also isn't terribly impressed, says only thing keeping this from being a complete scumread is the annoyance in this post: viewtopic.php?p=13537778#p13537778

Mathblade

- We both think this is Town. This is one of my higher certainty reads.

furtiveglance

- We both think this is Town. This is one of my higher certainty reads.

Ydra

- ??? I guess possibly Town if mastina is right about STD's meta, but I haven't checked. This slot is in Greeting's poe.

T-Bone

- ??? I think Greeting and I both don't really know what to make of this.

unwnd

- ??? Greeting and I haven't really spoken about this.

Can I have like 5 more minutes to reread our hydra chat again and make sure I'm not horribly misrepresenting Greeting on some read?

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

viewtopic.php?p=13538111#p13538111
Greeting says this post by Scarf is 100% fakeable because it says little, but enough so you can't say it is a completely empty post. He said that he would have supported a Scarf wagon if the chance came up again.

I said (when I was wiser, lol) that I was worried about FA being scum because she kept insisting that mastina explain her scumread when it seemed clear it wasn't going to happen. Greeting is very sure FA was enacting her Town meta.

This is Greeting's PoE as of Saturday (i.e. he townreads the slots not listed)
1 Radical Rat
3 professotic
4 Dingle Dangle Scarecrow
5 Child of Fairies
6 Past Present Future
7 Yume
8 Enchant
10 MMR
12 Maid Cafe
15 Ydrasse
16 T-Bone
17 radja

I think this is pretty good except I would leave FA in there.

[Bunnyonce]

Listen Enchant's posts are bad but they're like, consistently bad.
So not voting there tbh

Greeting says this post is super bad.

Do what you have to, I won't hammer until you're finished

And if anyone does, they're scumclaiming.

Aww <3

I'm ready. I think I've summarised all of Greeting's thoughts that I know of that are recent enough to be worth talking about.

[Bunnyonce]

I think Greeting has also just been a bit tired and hasn't been able to fully get into the game.

-Aisa
all of these posts are me, in case it wasn't obvious, lol.

[Bunnyonce]

Best of luck!!

I feel like this game hasn't really been up to my standards for myself, but I also think I've tried to do the best I could with the energy I had, so very well.

-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

The day did need to end, we gave Meg an elimination as a birthday gift, and I am looking forward to spamming the dead thread, so not all is gloom.
-Aisa

[Bunnyonce]

Spoiler:

My own rule of thumb is that highposting bodes well for more townies barring a highposter having some sort of value beyond just well, posting

I understand this take is without context, but you play enough of these games and you start to notice patterns. Does anyone believe that the notated users have any scum equity? Open question

professotic, Past Present Future, and Yume are all in my scum pool.

Are these players independently scummy or do you think this could comprise a scumteam? The only time I think a scumteam high posts is if they're comfortable enough to do it with another. It can be awkward if you don't know your teammates too well to properly have filler conversation

I think PPF and Yume are potential partners for mastina, and professotic is potentially on the other scumteam.

Can you expand this thought for me in shortform/longform

Whichever you prefer

I don't think this needs explaining, but it's not accurate and I'm struggling to believe RR has these reads as town. These 3 players seem to be 'aligned' based on saying the similar things and defending each other. But individually they're quite towny. Yume in particular, different to when I've seen them as mafia. Mastina seems to have that kind of ego/paranoia they always have. And PPF - can't remember who said it but all 3 heads in town meta. Idk Auro too well but agree on the other 2. So tldr is bad reads from RR, not because they don't make sense but bc they do on a surface level.

It happened only a page ago but I believe you scoffed(?) a bit at me 'trying to clear 5 people as town' but have 3/5 of them as that anyways

I wasn't scoffing, I admire the ambition and I think you're town for it.

FWIW I thought there was something to this idea, although this is my first exposure to unwnd, so don't know if they might be this gutsy as scum.

Also, tomorrow someone might be tempted to wonder why the wagon on this slot passed through while other wagons didn't. I can't pretend to know the full answer, but don't forget that the other slots that were run up (RR/mastina) claimed a PR.

-A

[Bunnyonce]

This is furtive townposting (in my humble opinion). If it is true that he played differently as third party in Datisi's Café, this also helps validate this read of mine / reassure me that it is still valid in multiball.

-Aisa