Family Guy Mafia - Game Over

[Hybris]

/Confirm

[Hybris]

Right. Any chance we'll get anything done this day 1? Nooo? Are you sure?

Ah well, I can deal with it.

[Hybris]

Yes, please do explain Charter. Personally I couldn't see anything scummy about it, but if you do then please say so.

[Hybris]

With all that on the table, I'm going to go with

Vote: Puta puta

for

quick! let's insta-wagon!

and

must...join...wagon... Unvote Vote:Xtoxm

I'm guessing it's a level 2 WIFOM-attention whore move, and he's attempting to hide in plain sight.

[Hybris]

So, I'm effectively being called scummy for

not

participating in the random voting stage?
I can kinda see the overall logic, but I'm not sure how this doesn't apply to lots of the other people who only voted randomly.

[Hybris]

I answered a question with a direct quote from her, to help discussion along. If you find that scummy, then fine. Personally, I'm not sure if I think thats so scummy, and I'd like to see what choices we have other than the two of us.

[Hybris]

And of course, you can't edit your posts so...
I'd like to actively look at other people because they could merely stay silent and comment on this current show which is going on while slipping under the radar.

[Hybris]

Its not the first time somebody has done that, I'm pretty sure. Don't blame him.

[Hybris]

for it completely that is.

[Hybris]

I'm still thinking about who is seeming scummy and who isn't. I'm not exactly seeing anybody who I'm thinking of as really scummy right now, and thus I haven't said much to contribute. That simple enough?

[Hybris]

Thats a better question. I'd have to review to see who exactly, but it seems a lot of people aren't posting, partly to avoid taking heat this early on. I could have randomly voted too, and not really said that much afterwards, as I'm somewhat sure some people are doing to stall for a little time. I'd have to say that I think Zilla is likely town, not guaranteed, but it seems like an honest mistake.

Anyway, back to the point. The only thing that stands out in my mind right now is that one incident about Mana_Ku using others reasoning for voting rather than their own. But, that doesn't seem too scummy to me either. I'd have to re-read the thread a bit more to see if there is anything distinct that I can find. But basically, anything that I'd give a FoS on... not that comes to my mind.

[Hybris]

Thats interesting. I agree with what Charter said, and I understood, before the explanation. I don't know if it needs restating right now for others, but for the moment I'll assume that most get it. Wolf does make an interesting counterpoint, but I'm not exactly sure if its convincing, and stating exactly what it is in my own words would likely be scummy, so I'll have to let him explain it to everyone himself.

Anyway, not sure if the logic is precisely sound but...

Vote: Wolf

Its the best argument I've heard so far, despite slight presuming.

[Hybris]

Oh, and as for general lurking-non scum hunting part....

There are many others who are doing similar things, and at points to a worse degree, so I don't think that you should single me out in that.

[Hybris]

Should I just stop talking? Seems like every time I post you all turn right on me and tell me I'm being scummy.

[Hybris]

Yeah. Thats kind of what I was thinking you meant, just had to make sure.

Unvote: Wolf

I don't think it was really intended that way at all, its an interesting angle, but I'm starting to think its a bit too much of a stretch for a vote at the moment. I'll keep a watch on that though.

Oh, and Charter? Thought I put it in the last post but apparently I didn't. What did I do scummy that time?

[Hybris]

Just voting to add a little more pressure to get wolf to detail his argument in a simple way so that the full reasoning can be better understood without me answering for him.

[Hybris]

That and confirming if he was saying what I was thinking he was. A different answer might have merited a different response.

[Hybris]

_____________________________________________________________

Thats interesting. I agree with what Charter said, and I understood, before the explanation. I don't know if it needs restating right now for others, but for the moment I'll assume that most get it. Wolf does make an interesting counterpoint, but I'm not exactly sure if its convincing,

and stating exactly what it is in my own words would likely be scummy,

so I'll have to let him explain it to everyone himself.

Anyway, not sure if the logic is precisely sound but...

Vote: Wolf

Its the best argument I've heard so far, despite slight presuming.

Way to stonewall and jump at the chance to get attention off of you, Hybris.

vote: Hybris

For these reasons:

a) Lurking
b) Lack of contribution to scum hunting efforts
c) Defense of Zilla / Responding for Zilla
d) Evasion of wolf's post / Not responding to wolf's post
e) Blatantly noting your conscious effort to not perform actions that would make you appear scummy (evidence bolded above)
f) Voting wolf based off a weak (in my opinion) argument made by someone else without providing any reasoning of your own. This simply appears to be a tactic to redirect the spotlights being shone on you towards wolf, so that your actions thus far will cease to receive as much attention as they have been getting.

About the only post thats really directed at me since my last one, if I'm right. Though let me know if I missed something, or call me scum for 'omitting' it. Either one works.

Let me respond to this bit by bit. The reasoning for the voting wolf was stated in a later post of mine, its around the top of page 13. I'm sorry for trying to do something useful.

a) Really? I thought I was posting quite a bit myself.

b) I've been trying to contribute, but I'm finding it both hard and useless to do so, considering that every single post I make is responded to with people screaming at me for being scummy.

c) This one I can see, although I thought since I was answering purely with her own quote and her own words, I thought it wouldn't be so bad, and possibly speed things along.

d) Which post are we talking about? After I answer this I'll go back and see where it is.

e) Explaining why I'm not presenting my reasoning behind certain things. Doing so would have defeated the point, and if I had done so, I likely would have been called scummy for presenting his answer.

f) Combination of the explanation before the letters and e. And if I was attempting to draw less attention to myself, why would I make that post at all. Its true, I am trying to draw attention away from myself. I am trying to do this because until I do then it will be very hard for me to attempt to scumhunt, which you have actually called me scummy for. Also, I don't think that what I have done deserves nearly the attention that its been getting, and that there are other things that we should be paying attention to. I know full well that the previous statement will be called incredibly scummy because a lot of you think otherwise on the matter, but whatever.


Now to go find that other post made by Wolf.

[Hybris]

D) Looked, and actually, Wolf never asked me anything. So d is basically void.

[Hybris]

I thought I had already stated that. Regardless, his entire argument is summed up as your c), so consider it responded to.

[Hybris]

*already stated that and/or the point had already been dealt with.

[Hybris]

Give me a sec to go and dig it up.

[Hybris]

Lets see what we have here...

BREAKING NEWS HEADLINE: NEWS REPORTER MAY HAVE CAUGHT FCC SCUM

1:

Right. Any chance we'll get anything done this day 1? Nooo? Are you sure?

Ah well, I can deal with it.

We learned early in this broadcast that Hybris had an attitude of "Day 1 won't help with anything." I'm getting word that that's scummy.

2:

Yes, please do explain Charter. Personally I couldn't see anything scummy about it, but if you do then please say so.

This just in, here we see an out of place trying to look like participation post. Recent investigations (this is not a breadcrumb) revealed that Hybris hadn't posted for a few pages, and this was one post after Zilla responded to an unreasoned vote from Charter. Tricia Takanawa reported that Hybris then echoed Zilla with the post quoted above.

3:

With all that on the table, I'm going to go with

Vote: Puta puta

for

quick! let's insta-wagon!

and

must...join...wagon... Unvote Vote:Xtoxm

I'm guessing it's a level 2 WIFOM-attention whore move, and he's attempting to hide in plain sight.

In other news, we have the well-documented answering for Zilla post.


4:

So, I'm effectively being called scummy for

not

participating in the random voting stage?
I can kinda see the overall logic, but I'm not sure how this doesn't apply to lots of the other people who only voted randomly.

We now go live to Hybris making this comment well after the RVS had ended; also attempting to deflect attention.


5: The most recent development in this story was pointed out by llama. It appears that Hybris has made a grand total of seven posts here while remaining fairly active on mafiascum.

6: Brace yourself, this last report may be disturbing if you are scum. We have provided a bulleted list of evidence found against Hybris:


-"useless day 1" attitude.
-trying to look like he is participating without actually doing so.
-answered for Zilla.
-lack of participation shortly after RVS
-deflecting attention.
-lurking here while remaining active elsewhere.

Unvote, Vote Hybris

1: Oh ho ho..... in a lot of the games I've played, the random stage takes up the entire first day. I have complete reason to believe from my experience that day ones might go to hell.

2: I'm sorry for not being around 24/7. Also, I'm suddenly not allowed to even agree with someone on something?

3: Redirect to c) of last argument.

4: He was asking me why I hadn't accused anybody of anything yet. And I countered by mentioning that there are tons of people that had only made accusations in the random stage, which effectively meant null. But they weren't being prosecuted because hey, they participated in the random voting stage. Thus the wording.

5: Kidding, right? Seven posts lurking? When there are several players who haven't made even that many by now? I find it hysterical how people keep insisting I'm lurking.

6: Brace yourself, this last report may be disturbing if you are

scum

town. We have provided a bulleted list of

refuted

evidence found against Hybris:

-"useless day 1" attitude. (1)
-trying to look like he is participating without actually doing so. (Combination of 2 and 5. Also, if you believe I haven't participated yet, I'm not sure how one would go about disproving that.)
-answered for Zilla. ( c) )
-lack of participation shortly after RVS (2)
-deflecting attention. (lets change this to 'directing attention to things that I feel are important to address for different reasons.')
-lurking here while remaining active elsewhere. (2)

That everything?

[Hybris]

Although on that very last point, I'm not exactly sure if I was all that active. Also, it wasn't exactly lurking, so its more of a five than 2 really.

Regardless, isn't that kind of thing disallowed, bring out of thread things into the game? Or does that not apply here? I remember there was a rule about not being allowed to check when a person is on and where they post in order to determine certain things, equating it to out of thread communication. Though that may have just been my native board.

[Hybris]

1: Oh ho ho..... in a lot of the games I've played, the random stage takes up the entire first day. I have complete reason to believe from my experience that day ones might go to hell.

I've never seen a RVS take up a whole Day 1 before. And your quote from the beginning of the game implies that you think Day 1 IS a waste, not that it MIGHT go to hell.

2: I'm sorry for not being around 24/7. Also, I'm suddenly not allowed to even agree with someone on something?

No, you can agree with people. Just try to add some things to the game for yourself.

4: He was asking me why I hadn't accused anybody of anything yet. And I countered by mentioning that there are tons of people that had only made accusations in the random stage, which effectively meant null. But they weren't being prosecuted because hey, they participated in the random voting stage. Thus the wording.

"Other people are scummy too, so that means I'm not as scummy."

5: Kidding, right? Seven posts lurking? When there are several players who haven't made even that many by now? I find it hysterical how people keep insisting I'm lurking.

You aren't lurking now that you are under fire.

Regardless, isn't that kind of thing disallowed, bring out of thread things into the game? Or does that not apply here? I remember there was a rule about not being allowed to check when a person is on and where they post in order to determine certain things, equating it to out of thread communication. Though that may have just been my native board.

I've never seen that rule on any of the 3 sites I play on.

2nd1: Well, sarcasm combined with an attempt to avert it might lead to that. I find overexaggerating a problem tends to get people to focus on it more.

2nd2: Just saying I have been, and am continually trying to.

2nd4: No, I'd say its more of "Other people are doing the same thing, so why single me out?"

2nd5: I wasn't lurking before. I was stating that lots of people don't even have seven post now when I had that many back then.

It isn't? I thought that not being allowed to check when a person was on and what they were doing in the site was more than a home rule. Good to know though, so thanks.

[Hybris]

2nd1: Well, sarcasm combined with an attempt to avert it might lead to that. I find overexaggerating a problem tends to get people to focus on it more.

Well my point was that enough discussion on Day 1, and serious discussion, can lead us in the right direction meaning it isn't useless. Do you agree with this now that we have progressed since you made the comment?

Was that the entire point, really? Yes, it has progressed.

2nd4: No, I'd say its more of "Other people are doing the same thing, so why single me out?"

Fact is, you were looked at. Defend yourself instead of just saying that other people are doing it too.

Alright, though if thats the only reason, you have much more viable culprits. Defended below.

2nd5: I wasn't lurking before. I was stating that lots of people don't even have seven post now when I had that many back then.

But you weren't posting nearly as much as you are now.

As you said, I caught fire. I suddenly have everything in my face and I have to continually respond to threats to myself rather that comb the thread for something/do anything useful, which would take more time, effort, and likely not require nearly as many posts.

[Hybris]

TonyMontana (2)
xtoxm (3)
pacman281292 (2)
CoheedCambria09 (3)
Puta Puta (7)
The Internet (1)
forbiddanlight (3)
Porochaz (1)
Mana_Ku (5)
RestFermata (6)


Starting past day one deadline set, and not counting confirms or edit by way of posts. In parentheses is page 5 and before posts, after comes the total.

Need to reply to kmd, so could somebody else do the other pages? I got to about when the random voting ended, aka the first five pages. Certain people have been omitted based on their participation currently, though I may not have omitted everyone that should/may have omitted somebody who wasn't supposed to be. Point is, how many of them have really posted after this point. Replying now...

[Hybris]

Was that the entire point, really? Yes, it has progressed.

It has, but has your attitude towards Day 1 changed now that it has?

*FACEPALM*
Yes... it has.... This game is in the point of serious play. I understand that, and I am playing seriously. Really, this is redundant.

Alright, though if thats the only reason, you have much more viable culprits. Defended below.

I

had

4 other reasons.

Emphasis mine.

As you said, I caught fire. I suddenly have everything in my face and I have to continually respond to threats to myself rather that comb the thread for something/do anything useful, which would take more time, effort, and likely not require nearly as many posts.

Don't forget that scumhunting is just as important as defending yourself, especially if you are town. Right, Charter?

Oooh, lets turn it around so it looks like Hybris is purely about defending herself... No. If everybody is gunning for me/I have to keep explaining, my energy is going to be towards that and even if I have the energy, I have to make myself credible first by putting out the flames.

Just that one post was an out of nowhere show up to agree and disappear again post.

Nothing to say about this?

I felt that it was going well without my interfering, and that me interupting would at best detract, and at worst completely set everybody's sights on me. Aka, I couldn't think of anything useful to say.

[Hybris]

TonyMontana (2) 2/0 **
xtoxm (3) 3/3
pacman281292 (2) 3/2 **
CoheedCambria09 (3) 2/1
Puta Puta (7) 3/1 **
The Internet (1) 2/3
forbiddanlight (3) 7/2
Porochaz (1) 5/1 *
Mana_Ku (5) 6/0 **
RestFermata (6) 2/1

6-10/11-this post
In posts.
*Has a viable excuse
**Has been prodded

Just putting the list up there for now.

[Hybris]

That is completely true. Although, thats due to the fact that I've been attacked after almost literally every single post of mine. I've already stated this before.

[Hybris]

I have some reads, but its a little hard to sort out. There seem to be three arguments right now.

Hybris
Zilla
Charter/Wolf

Of these, only the case of Charter against Wolf seems to be of any real use right now.

[Hybris]

vote: Hybris

for getting all up in my grill.

Can we avoid votes based on this kind of logic since I'm at L-2?

[Hybris]

One case that Hybris hasn't been able to refute was not contributing because it might attract attention? What is that?

Hasn't been able to refute, or just hasn't been brought up in the first place?

Attracting attention to me = detracting attention from the argument. I did not wish to interfere in that discussion because I didn't have anything really useful to say. I thought I said that already too though.

[Hybris]

I have some reads, but its a little hard to sort out. There seem to be three arguments right now.

Hybris
Zilla
Charter/Wolf

Of these, only the case of Charter against Wolf seems to be of any real use right now.

And why is this, Hybris? What makes charter's case of more use than the case against you, other than the fact that you happen to not be as involved in it?

Thats the only one I thought of as going anywhere. Also, it has the potential to help discern Charter's alignment as well as Wolf's.

[Hybris]

Honestly, the way I see it, it goes as thus.

Wolf told me that what I did was scummy.

Charter 'picked up' on certain wording, which he translates to mean that he thinks I'm/believes me to be/knows I am town.

That is not what is under debate. What is under debate is whether this is a valid tell or not. Don't give up, if you give up, it gives the impression you lost, and therefore are wrong regardless of whatever the truth may be.

[Hybris]

Yes, I know it didn't mention his words.

You are saying it makes him scummy because he said he knew I was town, but only saying it subliminally and unknowingly. You got this from the bolded text. Is this assumption true or not?

[Hybris]

Ok, he may have thought that, or knew it. But I have a question. How can you

know

he's scum knowing it rather than using especially to clarify a point to other townies more, clarifying that that means that I wouldn't act that way. It may have been a given, but sometimes stating givens is an internal thing to emphasize. I think thats where the problem lies, its just seeming like too much of a concidence.

[Hybris]

Hybris defending Wolf is kinda scummy.

Care to elaborate?

[Hybris]

How certain

are you, charter, that wolf is scum based off of this "slip" you have found?

Anyway, what about Tony? He's not acting scummy?

[Hybris]

I don't really see how its so hard to read.

[Hybris]

Maybe another vote will get his attention.

Vote: Charter

Also, haven't I discounted most of those things KMD?

[Hybris]

If I remember right, that was the only one really still standing.

Personally, I'm going to ask TI to post his opinions on everybody and the things going on so far, he seems to be dodgy about it. TI, tell us why we should lynch another person more than we should lynch you right now.

And one more thing.

The fact that wolf said it but didn't believe it.

What is "it"?

[Hybris]

Puta- I'm going to reinforce what everyone else has been saying, FL's post restriction is not hard to read, just take out the slurry parts sh, and say it in your head, done. Theres no need to get all worked up about something that FL's doesnt really have control over.

Also the line where you say Fl's is mafia and using the PR as a safe claim as a drunk guy is just horrible logic.

unvote, vote:Puta Puta

wow MASSIVE FoS, you return from lurking to only echo someone else's case against me and place a vote on me? LOL, LOL OBVSSCUMRAWR!

Ok, I feel obligated to ask, what the hell? Is your post restriction requiring you to act like this or something? Thats just a blatant OMGUS.

Oh, and you should bold your vote and FoS's, like this.

FoS: Puta Puta

[Hybris]

The fact that wolf said it but didn't believe it.

What is "it"?

The especially if you're town post...

. . . huh?

He said a lot in that post, what didn't he mean?

[Hybris]

Now thats much more clean a version, thank you.
I can see the logic and why it would be a proper reason. It just seems like a bit of a jump to make in thought processes. If you could explain why its not the big leap in logic as me and a couple others have been thinking, then you may be more convincing.

[Hybris]

Yes... thats what he just said in different words.

What I was asking, is why this is not a leap in logic.

[Hybris]

Then why not just quit?

[Hybris]

The fact that they convey limited information, and are a common strategy in public lurking.

[Hybris]

You keep saying you're suspicious of me, though I've already explained everything I can and answered your questions. Personally, I don't see what else I can say.

Anyway, about Zilla's thing on Wolf, well, actually I'd like to give Wolf himself a chance to respond to it before I say anything.

[Hybris]

I think your * answers your own question.

He's sliding by without participating.

[Hybris]

@xtoxm: How is Charter the most pro-town player? Are you just saying that because he started the wolf wagon?

I second this question

I'll third it.

Anyway, I'm trying to find something to say.... but its pretty hard.

Although, Xtoxm is looking a little more suspicious to me. Poro kinda stole most of what I was thinking, so I'm kinda left here nodding and pointing to that.

[Hybris]

I'll assume we can still talk while you're gone though. On that note...

No. I'm a firm believer in the effectivness of OMGUS votes.

So why shouldnt we just kill you right now? TI is starting to do stuff, you are trying to be as unhelpful as possible

I'm going to ask that right now. I need it explained to me how

A: OMGUS is a sufficient reason, and...

B: What did I even

do

to deserve it?

[Hybris]

I'd like to ask two things.

Actually, come to think of it.

unvote: The Internet
Vote: Wolframnhart

I'm sorry, but even considering this, I can't imagine a case in which I would actually type the words "Actually, come to think of it" and unvote the person that I voted in the SAME POST. I don't know, it just seems like he was trying too hard.

Is it just me or is there a contradiction there?

Vote: TonyMontana

Are you unvoting Wolf or....?

[Hybris]

Wait.... nevermind... quote tags are messed up, thats from Zilla.

[Hybris]

Hrm.... its not any more of a slip that the other cases we had/have going on would be. While he has acted scummy previously, I think that particular piece of evidence is frail and weak.

[Hybris]

Furthermore, I'm going to say that Hybris appears linked to Tony. If Tony flips scum, I'd be onto Hybris next because he's softly defending Tony.

Defending him...?
Pointing out that a particular point is weak ≠ defending every point.

Though more to the point, I'll agree that it just seemed like the votes jut piled on really fast lately.

[Hybris]

Kmd what is the correct answer to that question?

I'm going to guess that this question is asking how does the truth or dare method work, and how does it prove anything.

[Hybris]

I resent the accusations of me having anti-town meta.
I have poor mafia skills meta. That's not the same as being a douche.

As far as policy lynches go, I say the drunk girl is the way to go.better choice.

I'm not good at scum hunting either, doesn't mean its any excuse.
Anyway, as for Forbiddan, care to explain? I don't think I've heard that case yet, so if its new I'd like reasoning.

[Hybris]

No, that was directed towards TM. I was asking why he felt you were a good policy lynch.

[Hybris]

In the first line. In the second line it sounded like you made an excuse for it. Also, what about my other question?

[Hybris]

I think the point is being overlooked...

I don't want examples of where it has worked right now. What I want is a detailed explanation of how it works. From what I see, it is just ask, and compare to previous answers to see if its similar enough to say I got my answer from there. And that is just horrible logic.

[Hybris]

Now you did not need to claim when you did, a week from deadline we dont need a claim from you when you are at L-3.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he at L-1 when he claimed?

Anyway, as for the whole Llama/Zilla debate going on right now, I'll say that Llama could be forceful as scum, but being forceful alone is not enough to support a lynch. You've been forceful too Zilla, though not saying as much. If/when he says something scummy or makes a really bad argument, then you can point it out and make a case. I don't think you're being scummy per say for arguing this, but I'm disagreeing on the premise of it.

[Hybris]

Oh, before I forget if/when I vote later...

Unvote

Two things TI, one, you don't need a lot of time to do a 'full read'. Also, if you were doing as intensive a read as you were saying..... you would have more reads than this. Whats your opinion on the Tony wagon for example. One more note.....

Since people are accusing me of not contributing again, I would like to present my next set of reads
LlamaFluff:Protown, uses logic for support well, not as verbose as certain other (EG Zilla), but is a valued memeber of the town. Naturally I think his case against me is flawed, mainly because he is clinging to old information (I admit I was scummy earlier), and not commenting much on my newer contributions
elvix_knits:Infrequent, good at arguing, seems to wait for things others have not said.

kloud:

Hard to get a read on, seemed to parrot a bit much. Had some good things, again notably absent.
kmd:Was a strong contributor, still contributes, quality declined.
Blackadder:Talked a lot during early period. Lurked through much of the wolf lynch period, but was pretty clearly informed of it. Why? Later contributions have been few and far between, usually lacking much content. Little opinions given. Why the shift?


The reason these take so long is because I do a full reread for every set.
Other notes: It looks like my wagon is moving fast now, eh? Where was wolf after the wagon? Does anyone have an answer to my previous question? Anybody have thoughts on my second batch of reads?

[Hybris]

Spolium replaces kloud effective now.

((ebwop))

[Hybris]

EBWOP: Also, I had a serious bust-up laughter fit when Charter said "not as town as Xtoxm." Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking Xtoxm is scummy?

No, you aren't alone.

Agreed. Speaking of him, he's kinda vanished hasn't he?

[Hybris]

Something I just noticed, why is the vote still under Kloud? If its because his replacement has to unvote, then I can understand that, but then we get to his replacement not having posted a word.

[Hybris]

Spolium? He's only posted a confirm.

[Hybris]

I was going to say that it was decided already basically to lynch Tony, but I paid a bit more attention and noticed that TI has almost as many votes now, with the unvotes and such, so he actually is a viable second choice. Though unless something else happens, the votes on anybody but these two are like voting for a third party for president. I will likely vote tomorrow, still making my decision on which I find more scummy.

[Hybris]

The rason that charte doesnt thin that xtoxm is scum is that xtoxm has the same viewpoint as cahrter. I dont know if this is genuine or noe but the fact that xtoxm has the same ideas as chater is making charter call xtoxm town.

Way to pull a Hybris, you know. You basically answered for Charter and BlakAdder and I were trying to get info out of him.

Hey.

Anyway, its not so bad as it seems, because right afterwards, he states that that is all true in such a way that it should be obvious. Essentially, Charter is agreeing that he believes Xtoxm to be town almost purely on a flawed basis. Do you have anything to say in your defense Charter?

[Hybris]

Oh, and you might want to start calling Wolf Nitro now. Just a thought.

[Hybris]

The general case is that neither of them have contributed much, have been making statements that are generally anti town, and are looking the most scummy in general.

[Hybris]

Thank you for your answers BA, and Zilla. I'm sorry if you see me parroting, zilla. It's just that many of the best questions have already been asked, and I haven't found the answers to these. I figure that this adds more pressure. If you did post your opinions previously, I did not see them, and I apologize.

Well, if the answers are given, just look at those. And if they haven't been replied to, scond, third, or whatever the question to draw attention to it.

[Hybris]

Yeah, I'm not all too sure either way which to go on, and its too close for me to want to put a vote weight on either side. Besides, it looks like a TI lynch by default by now. Unless he claims, I'm not seeing that even possibly change in any way.

[Hybris]

I think thats because CC wasn't being as outright scummy and as such was not distracting everybody. TM and TI were disrupting, CC was only lurking, if I remember correctly. That might not be the case though, if anybody has anything I'm forgetting, feel free to speak up.

[Hybris]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to

FoS: Charter

for that one. It may not be how he intended it to come across, but that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Unless he meant for the same reasons that he was talking about yesterday. But even in that case, he could have simply said so.

[Hybris]

Honestly, for some reason I thought that post was about several different people. Rereading it in a slightly better light makes it seem like a bit of a better option. And, I was hoping that he'd bring that point about what he did rather than somebody else. Its a logical stance, but I'm not so sure if its the best one. Given Nitro's overall lack of doing anything though, I'd have to say its vaild.

Nitro, comments?
((Especially given he posted after that one, and only said "Going to vote TM." I'm actually a bit suspicious myself now of why he's acting this way.))

[Hybris]

I will say that it seems either one of Tony or Wolfram/Nitro are scum. Tony's still crazy scummy. Overall, I'd rather go with a better bet rather than an unlucky townie.

If I'm gonna be a part of "either one is scum" through out this game, I'd say we'll win in notime by going with the other guy.
Seriously, how am I crazy scummy? And how is letting the guy who doesn't post to defend himself slip, a better bet?

There have been numerous cases of you being scummy, if you just look back to the first day, I'm pretty sure you'll find many discussions on the topic, one I remember right off the bat would be voting me for "Getting in your grill", when I wasn't even addressing you personally.

Although, NS has a very large case on him as well now, and one that actually makes a lot of sense. "Wolf said Hybris was town, and voted him in the same post." = Wolf was accused of making a tiny scum slip by seeming like he's helping out a innocent townie possibly, just to clarify that a bit. Although, real evidence is building up. and NS not showing up at all to defend himself is hurting his case a lot. Although, right now I'm chalking that up to NS flaking entirely, which makes this that much harder to read.

Any defenses?

[Hybris]

I'm sorry I just have to say something here.

I really see no way that TM flips town.

If TM flips scum I will be completely shocked

Am I the only one that sees this?

[Hybris]

Yeah, probably. Even so, something about it just messed with me. Anyway, I'd likely vote NS over TM, because he's overall flaking, and thats just leaving a viod where TM is at least responding.

[Hybris]

Ok, I tried to make this post while i was at work, but I do a lot of C&P in my job so i kept losing the post as i went back and forth, so after about the third try I gave up, but now that I'm home, I'll try again. Just a warning, This is going to be a LONG post with lots of quoting.

________________________________________________________

*Heh heh... no. I'm not quoting all that.

That was something interesting to say the least. I wonder how long that took you. I did something slightly similar earlier on in the game, but it was merely a count of how much people had posted. I'd imagine with how much farther we are in the game, and doing analyzing that it must have been a hard and long process, I could almost feel your frustration in making it near the end as you grew a little more critical.

But, to the point. Your case of RestFermata lurking and not contributing too much to the game does hold, but you may be exaggerating it slightly. I found that while a lot of those posts were no content, some of those you classified to be nothing, I would have assigned a little value to. Like, adding an opinion. Sometimes giving your opinion adds to the headcount of those who say they believe it, like more than one person making a case on a player, strength in numbers.

Summed up version; I think you have a case, but its not a completely major one. *Makes a mental bet with self*

[Hybris]

And I won the mental bet that somebody would jump on me for that post. Of course, I was expecting it to be Zoneace, though he'll probably chime in soon. Anyway, I just love the way you summarized my posts.

I might as well do it in this format too. I just hope the collective town doesn't get so fed up with this that they collectively stop reading it at all and the mod tells up to stop. And just to mention, it being your opinion doesn't prevent it from being strawmaning.

But, to the point. Your case of RestFermata lurking and not contributing too much to the game does hold, but you may be exaggerating it slightly. I found that while a lot of those posts were no content, some of those you classified to be nothing, I would have assigned a little value to. Like, adding an opinion. Sometimes giving your opinion adds to the headcount of those who say they believe it, like more than one person making a case on a player, strength in numbers.

Summed up version; I think you have a case, but its not a completely major one. *Makes a mental bet with self*

(summary) Your case against RestFermata is pretty good, but not great!

That summary is very in line with what I'm thinking, though thats a null summary, since your summary is essentially my summary reworded.

Thats interesting. I agree with what Charter said, and I understood, before the explanation. I don't know if it needs restating right now for others, but for the moment I'll assume that most get it. Wolf does make an interesting counterpoint, but I'm not exactly sure if its convincing, and stating exactly what it is in my own words would likely be scummy, so I'll have to let him explain it to everyone himself.

Anyway, not sure if the logic is precisely sound but...

Vote: Wolf

Its the best argument I've heard so far, despite slight presuming.

(summary) I agree with Charter, but Wolf's defense is interesting! I might believe it, but I might not. I'll have to think about it. I'm going to vote Wolf, but I'm going to leave the door open for changing my vote on a whim later because there is "slight presuming" in Charter's argument.

Yeah. Thats kind of what I was thinking you meant, just had to make sure.

Unvote: Wolf

I don't think it was really intended that way at all, its an interesting angle, but I'm starting to think its a bit too much of a stretch for a vote at the moment. I'll keep a watch on that though.

(summary) I really get off on riding fences, don't you?

Incase you missed it, that was a poke-test for a response.

Oh, and as for general lurking-non scum hunting part....

There are many others who are doing similar things, and at points to a worse degree, so I don't think that you should single me out in that.

(summary) Hey, no fair! They're being scummy too! Don't look at me, look at them!

I was actually asking why single me out in it in particular when there were worse cases to look at.

Should I just stop talking? Seems like every time I post you all turn right on me and tell me I'm being scummy.

(summary) You're not allowed to tell me that

I'm

scummy.

I was trying to get attention to the fact that almost literally every post I was making at that point people were saying I was scum for, claims which I eventually for the most part refuted.

Although on that very last point, I'm not exactly sure if I was all that active. Also, it wasn't exactly lurking, so its more of a five than 2 really.

Regardless, isn't that kind of thing disallowed, bring out of thread things into the game? Or does that not apply here? I remember there was a rule about not being allowed to check when a person is on and where they post in order to determine certain things, equating it to out of thread communication. Though that may have just been my native board.

(summary) You have to throw out the evidence! It was illegally obtained! *flails*

So I'm not allowed to check what the rules are?

I have some reads, but its a little hard to sort out. There seem to be three arguments right now.

Hybris
Zilla
Charter/Wolf

Of these, only the case of Charter against Wolf seems to be of any real use right now.

(summary) I think that the case of Charter against Wolf is useful. I also think it is interesting. But I also think that it is a stretch!

That was explained, as looking through the case at both Charter and Wolf and seeing how they were acting. I evaluate cases for how strong they are.

I was going to say that it was decided already basically to lynch Tony, but I paid a bit more attention and noticed that TI has almost as many votes now, with the unvotes and such, so he actually is a viable second choice. Though unless something else happens, the votes on anybody but these two are like voting for a third party for president. I will likely vote tomorrow, still making my decision on which I find more scummy.

(summary) I am likely going to vote tomorrow. But not really. I will post twice tomorrow without voting. In fact I will not vote all day. That way I can neither contribute to the lynch of TI, nor be suspected for not participating in the lynch of TI!

This whole argument cruxes on me trying to mask myself not voting so that I can't be suspected for voting for him or going against the lynch of him. Which suggests that I didn't know what role he was. Which suggests that I'm not mafia with him. Way to go.

Right now my vote is staying on Hybris.

Still staying with me?

[Hybris]

EBWOP:

To count in his edit, add in to mine after "going against the lynch of him" + by participating in another wagon.

[Hybris]

I don't like your reconsideration of the importance of flavor, especially after you houdned Zilla 1 for talking about flavor day 1, and suddenly flavor is a good thing to bank on to save ZoneAce? I don't like how much credit you put in his claim, since it's still enitrely possible he got lucky with a fake role claim, and it's also possible that Joe was town but Bonnie was scum.

Thank you, was waiting for someone else to point this out so I don't have to put up with OMGUS nonsense.

how the christ is it OMGUS? I thought your bullshit was bullshit before i ever replaced into the game. "especially if you're town" is not a valid reason to vote someone. YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP. And now that you've been called out all you have to say is "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah its OMGUS, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah"

Seriously, if you've already given up on actually participating why are you still here?

Honestly, he does have a legitimate point there. You could call OMGUS on him attacking your position by saying he was only doing it because you attacked him and were making a big case on him. Thats how it would be OMGUS nonsense.

Though, I think its because you really aren't paying too much attention to his posts anymore, which makes me wonder a bit. Your post seems to act like he called OMGUS on you, or say that you did it to him already rather than his talking about how people would call OMGUS on him.

[Hybris]

But it looks to me like Charter's at least trying to put a decent case together, but Zone has just been going "Charter had a bad reason for starting the wagon on me in the first place. .

Mind pointing out where this MIRACULOUS case he has made is? Cause ITS NOT THERE.

Oh, and I think in his argument, the key word is

trying

. Just an fyi.

[Hybris]

What about my defense do you not like RF? Anything to point out?

Oh, and deadlines coming up very soon so we have to get some more votes in from the other people not voting. Because honestly, nobody has more than three votes on them, and I think that'll lead to a no lynch, and none of us want that. Yes, I know that I am one of those, but I am deciding which people I think are scummy for right now. I'm just gonna jot down a few quick thoughts here and see if I find anybody particurally scummy enough to warrant such a vote.

Charter seems to have been tunnel visioning on the case on Zoneace, and as far as I can tell, hasn't really made any other arguments. Not sure if he's scummy, but I will agree that his quick jumping onto the TI wagon does help him out some.
The case on Tubby I'm actually semi-ok with, because he seems to not have been doing much at all. He said he would be able to devote more time to this game and do things. That was about 2-3 days ago. Overall I'd like a little more participation on his part.
With BlakAdder, I'm not so sure I see him defending Charter too much. And as for unhelpful, you're going to have to point that out, I don't see how he's being unhelpful, maybe unhelpful to certain peoples view on who needs to be lynched, but not completely unhelpful to the town on a whole. Though I might be wrong as I'm judging that mainly by the last couple pages.

I think those are the main cases. Zoneace and TM each have one too, but I don't have particurally distinct thoughts on those, other than TM needs to be a little more active, and I pretty much believe Zoneace's claim, though I'm not sure if that clears him. It actually might implicate him, if you're thinking on the lines of the whole point of the FCC censoring things is so young children don't see them. But, I'm not sure if I'm going to look that close at flavor.

Does anybody see anything somehow incorrect with anything I said?

[Hybris]

Honestly, I'm not sure what to make of this whole scenario, I'm starting to get ideas on this thing now though. I'm still going to reserve my overall vote, but since I do believe the votes are tied, and that if I am right and its the one that majority reached first for in a tie that gets lynched, then I am going to

Vote: TM

[Hybris]

And

Unvote: TM

Because while I'm not sure if he's the best lynch, he's a better lynch than charter right now imho.

[Hybris]

... explanation on previous page.

[Hybris]

I think you missed the point. I'm not sure if either is a lynch and am looking into the others, Tubby as you have mentioned is looking rather scummy, for instance. But the point of that Vote/Unvote was to get Tm into the 4 vote range, if only for a second, so in the case that it really does end on a 3 vote lynch, then it will be TM, who I believe is more scummy than Charter right now.

[Hybris]

I was doing that to break the tie while I was thinking about it some more. And just so you know Tubby, its polite to unvote first.

Of course I was going to vote tubby when I got back on, seeing as right now he seems like the one who I'd want lynched due to his behavior, but now it just looks like an omgus.

... screw it.

Vote: Tubby

A trend from him I've noticed is that he seems to literally parrot a conception people have to make it sound like he has more to contribute. I'm pretty sure I've actually caught this in his most recent vote because by his post which votes for me he states that he doesn't understand the point, probably based on posts 1327-1328. I explain in 1329 better, and from there people understand it better. The don't agree with me changing the vote leader to a person I find more scummy while reserving my actual vote for a little later when I find something, but they understand. Its really very simple.

I may be wrong and its not clear after all, but from other responses I've seen, the point is across.

[Hybris]

Oh, and tubby? Care to elaborate just what it is you think I'm screening? Ideas on my motives with it perhaps? And I'm looking for an answer to this from you tubby, nobody else. I'm just asking for a little more elaboration into what your thoughts are on me.

[Hybris]

I'm sorry but....

i appologize i diddn't realize i had voted for tm agian.

What the hell is this!

*ahem*

With that out of my system let me go on.

no i seriously don't understand you, and it seems like a clever sceme knowing that lamma fluff wnat me swingin in the breeze in the worst kinda way,

~

and by saying you've "noticed a trend" you are basically parroting /buddying up to lama.

Besides the fact I don't understand much of what you're saying before the self-edited ~, you're whole reasoning for voting me just happens' to have come off of stuff that happened

after

you voted. I was asking what was your reason for voting in the first place. And I'm not buddying or parroting Llama here. I've stated new evidence based on a post of your I don't even think he's read yet, and stated that you've done this earlier. Something I can't be parroting from him because he hasn't said it at all.

[Hybris]

I don't exactly think the chain of tedium is that good either, so I think we can both be satisfied with a little crunching. Besides, about a third t half of my responses would be something along the lines of "No, thats twisting my words and making it sound like its really scummy when its not." I'll provide a sample response to give you an idea of what I mean.

So I'm not allowed to check what the rules are?

You didn't check, you just threw out something rules-related and saw if it would stick. Plus the context makes it seem like you had something to hide. In my opinion at least.

No..... I was just checking what the rules were. From some of the other games I've played... rules are that way.


Essentially, your point is that I haven't invested myself too deeply in any case, so I must be scum. Thats not necessarily true, but partly. I evaluate the cases brought up in the game against people, and I invest myself based on how sure I am of the cases on a player, both mine and others, both the wagon target and the wagon starter. Personally, I don't see that as all too scummy.

[Hybris]

Well, I'm not entirely sure if it proves anything really, just that he's a double voter. We already know one of the roles thats scum, and three of those that are town. If there is a flavor connection between the people that are FCC, which I'm not entirely sure there is, then we might be able to see if this matters.

[Hybris]

None of it is

necessarily

scummy, just possibly scummy. This game isn't about solid proof. It's all about conjecture. Sorry for twisting your words, but I did also leave your unaltered words.

None of it is necessarily scummy, and just possibly scummy. But, "scummy actions" mean actions that look bad and might be indicators of scum. It is a game of conjecture, but you essentially just said that my actions

might

look bad. Which, just seems not too big, considering you aren't even sure if the actions are scummy at all.

I don't want to vote for him just yet, however. I think we can squeeze more discussion out of this day, though I'm not sure where to place the pressure just yet.

Though this I can agree with, we can get a little more information out of today I'm sure. But... I'm also finding a similar problem of pressuring.

[Hybris]

Right now, due to the uprising of this theory, I think Tubby's alignment has become critically important. The theory that LF has been bussing Tubby seeing little to no visible way of him actually being lynched, so that when he finally did get lynched, Llama would have a lot of good credit for the bussing is very plausible. That, combined with all the scummy actions he's been doing that make him seem bad, makes me think he should be lynched more than any of the others right now.

[Hybris]

Thats entirely possible. If he is town aligned and a doublevoter, then it will be a bit of a loss. I could want to do it that way, nevermind all the evidence, me voting him before he was a real wagon, and such. It would be a loss for town, but isn't that what wifom is all about in the end? Should we just not lynch him on the possibility he might be town, when he's much more powerful as a scum possibility?

[Hybris]

There has been a lot of things Llama has been talking about, stuff which you yourself have just been getting on his case about presenting and then backing down from. I was really considering voting for him before that vote, but it looked scummy to vote me like that, and I presented evidence on why that vote is scummy. Something I'm pretty sure you agreed with.

[Hybris]

Thats entirely possible. If he is town aligned and a doublevoter, then it will be a bit of a loss. I could want to do it that way, nevermind all the evidence, me voting him before he was a real wagon, and such. It would be a loss for town, but isn't that what wifom is all about in the end? Should we just not lynch him on the possibility he might be town, when he's much more powerful as a scum possibility?

This post is TERRIBLE.

huge fos hybris

(I'm still a little confused as to how he survived day 1)

Um.... did my point fly way to the left or something? I was saying that the argument that seems to be presented is that we shouldn't lynch him because he's a double-voter, because we shouldn't want to lose a townie double voter. But if he's a scum double voter, which is entirely possible, then we'd just be giving him a free ride.

[Hybris]

Both sides of.... you mean talking with your whole mouth? Like how normal people speak?

But seriously... you're saying I'm scummy because I acknowledged that from a neutral position, Zilla had a point? I'm sorry for not blindly and blatantly disregarding the opinions of others.

[Hybris]

Right now, yes. I do believe he is scum. I may be wrong, but right now I'm seriously thinking it. A lot of his posts have been summations of opinions presented before, and that last vote on me is a prime example of it, I provide reasoning for that in the post I vote him, 1335.

[Hybris]

For me not believing my judgement to be absolutely infallible? I apologize for not being arrogant a second time. Since Llama asked me, I think its only fair that I ask you the same thing; why did you vote me, and provide for me the reasoning you used while voting me, as well as reasoning that you currently hold.

[Hybris]

So, you voted me for... wait. Hopped from it once the TM wagon gained momentum? You're making less and less sense. I'm pretty sure that there were no votes between my voting and unvoting of wolf so thats null.
I never bothered to acknowledge the ti thing? I'm not even sure what you mean, I explained and talked about my reasoning, so I sure acknowledged it at least.
And the third one, while I wasn't 'buddying up', is null in any case because that was after your vote on me and if you can't provide any sort of reasoning for your vote on me from before I voted you, which I'm pretty sure you aren't able to, then you voted me for essentially no reason. And I think thats pretty scummy.

And, the first two points you've had ample time to bring up, you preferably should have provided them in the post you voted me, because right now it looks like you're trying to dig up reasons post-vote because you can't really think of any.

[Hybris]

I'm no good at making up statistics randomly on the spot, but I'd have to say that I'm more sure he's scum than any other person right now. He seems to be somewhat opportunistic to vote people on reasoning others have presented, while adding little to nothing of his own. The only thing giving me real doubts right now is the double-voting, which does not mean he's town, and if he's scum with that, he's all the more dangerous for it.

He voted me with little to no reason, other than the fact that I seemed to be an easy target at the time. That alone is very scummy, and considering its part of a trend that he's been doing, I've got to say that a lot of the things he's been doing are anti-town at least.

And right now, you're really seeming scummy yourself Llama. Seems like you're going a bit out of your way to protect him and convince me that I shouldn't be on a wagon you've been advocating incredibly strongly until it suddenly built up. Its very plausible that you're scum buddies with him and trying to save his ass, having been leading that wagon on him and never expecting it to gain ground so that late game you could say that you've been advocating lynching him so far back and use it to make yourself look very pro-town late game, or that your scum and picked him honestly knowing he was town, and hoping that exactly this would happen, but jumping off once it ballooned so that you could pin somebody *in this case me* as the person who lynched the townie and who will seem scummy and a good third day lynch to attract attention away from those who are really scummy. Actually, that second one would make sense with Forbiddan having no vote and Tubby having two, with them both being town town has the same amount of votes as usual, solving the balance issue. This is a good deal to think about...

[Hybris]

Happy new years! This ties tubby and hybris wagons.

More in '09

Happy new years to you too! Though for me its been new years for a few hours now. But now, to the fun part...

The only thing giving me real doubts right now is the double-voting, which does not mean he's town, and if he's scum with that, he's all the more dangerous for it.

Which is why we role claim when a scummy person is nearing a lynch *cough* Zilla *cough*. You are sounding like you are considering him such a threat if he is scum that we should lynch him today just incase he is.

And you were sounding like we should not lynch him at all just because he claimed a power role. I noticed that you were saying we should lynch Zoneace because you said that just because he has that power, doesn't mean that he is town. I'm stating something very similar in this case.

You werent an "easy target" at the time. Easy targets were ZONE and charter, especially as given the DV it put him out deadline lynch. Also he has pretty decent reasons to be voting you, the last few pages have been a crash and burn phase for you. You have played both sides of the "lynch tubby" wagon, and even nonw seem to be preparing to dump blame of a mislynch on me (and have been for a while).

Crash and burn phase? I'm really not seeing that, unless you're talking about that *Hybris isn't thinking like an omnipotent being, what with the accepting the wagon is possibly wrong. Obv scum!* thing. In which case, would you rather I acted all high and mighty and pretended that I was completely right in my judgement despite basic logical sense? So I'm not seeing the crash and burn.

Also, his vote on me came before the last few pages which you have stated are the "crash and burn phase". I would like his reasoning on what the vote was for, I still haven't gotten a reply to what apparently was a vote on no logic at all. But surely you can tell me that Llama right, since you seem to be answering for Tubby now. One more thing, its funny you mention the dumping the mislynch on me, because I was just pointing out that you were going to do that to me.

It was one of those instances where the vote was shitty, but the wagon wasnt as bad as it could be. This of course is aside from the fact that the only way any of my suspicions make any good sense once they pass two players is if people are bussing in really wierd spots. You have been following people quite a bit though this game, something that you are calling tubby scum for doing right now.

Following people a good deal in the earlier parts of the game, probably not more so than any other player, and purely doing that the whole time are worlds apart. And at least you admit his vote was a bad idea.

Its very plausible that you're scum buddies with him and trying to save his ass, having been leading that wagon on him and never expecting it to gain ground so that late game you could say that you've been advocating lynching him so far back and use it to make yourself look very pro-town late game, or that your scum and picked him honestly knowing he was town, and hoping that exactly this would happen, but jumping off once it ballooned so that you could pin somebody *in this case me* as the person who lynched the townie and who will seem scummy and a good third day lynch to attract attention away from those who are really scummy. Actually, that second one would make sense with Forbiddan having no vote and Tubby having two, with them both being town town has the same amount of votes as usual, solving the balance issue. This is a good deal to think about...

Hey check it out. If tubby is scum, I bussed. If tubby is town, I got him lynched as scum. Looks like a lose lose situation for me here. Either way though, you already have someone to vote tomorrow, as well as scapegoat if tubby is town. Although you just called tubby town for his DV thing because you think FL is town. Which is in direct contridiction to your vote, and to the fact that part of the reason you want tubby lynched is that he is scum DV.

Don't go twisting my words now, I was considering the possibility, and said that it would make sense, though there are other ways to balance it. Which means, if Tubby turns up town, then FL is very likely town as well, more info benefit to lynching him. And its funny, even though I've mentioned this earlier, this is literally you accusing me of what I just accused you of.

Hell I am probably going to catch quite a bit of flack for this move... but

unvote
Vote Hybris

Hell yeah! Its on now.

Few reasons, more later though

1) His post 11, votes wolf while saying that he think the argument is weak, but the best so far. This is an example of his parroting, unwillingness to scumhunt, and poor voting.
2) His post 4. Deflection of being lurky onto other players.
3) His post 30. Creation of a false dillema (states only cases are on him, Zilla, and charter/zone). Says charter/wolf best case, isnt voting on it.
4) His post 38. Pushing attention onto TM in an attempt to get kloud to call him scummy, while not showing any signs of thinking TM is scum.
5) Hist post 61. Calls me and Zilla scum during one of our debates, then second guesses it in the same post. Still is not scumhunting and is voting charter on reasons I dont get, while not pushing the charter lynch.
6) His post 62. His entire response to TI is correcting that kloud got replaced. Ignores everything he actually asked TI to do.
7) His post 67. He acknowlages that not voting TI/TM is throwing away a vote. Remember this.
8) His post 72 (last post of D1). Does not vote, just calls the wagons too close, says TI is the lynch unless he claims. I get a 'holding out' feeling, trying to get a reason to vote TM.

--End D1 and posting for the night--

I'm not going to search those up to check how much you twisted and/or misinterperted my words, because I really can't locate those posts with any sort of ease. Put the post number in the quotation so its easy for me to check next time please. For now I'll just go from memory and see what I can explain/figure out what the hell you're talking about.

11, I'm going to assume is the reaction test on Wolf, which I've explained several times.

30, that was actually sort of true at the time.

67, or, since I wasn't sure of my judgement, it could be to not accidentally influence the lynch in a direction that would be deterimental to town.

72, same as 67, but with the addition of me pointing out that you're taking TM for an auto town now, and leaving out the possibility they were both scum.

There are a few key points that show up regarding Hybris

- Fencesitting on key wagons and issues
- Distinct lack of scumhunting
- A general posting style of active lurking

I wouldn't say I've been lurking, since lately not many have been posting at all, and this and scumhunting, can be magnified by a factor of ten and aimed at Tubby. As for fencesitting, I didn't know not feeling too strongly in either direction was a crime.


Oh, and since those are your "key" points, I'd like to point out that you've only been getting on my case ever since I stopped doing these things. Interesting, no?

Happy New Year everyone!

[Hybris]

So, you voted me for... wait. Hopped from it once the TM wagon gained momentum? You're making less and less sense. I'm pretty sure that there were no votes between my voting and unvoting of wolf so thats null.

Not null because you accuse Tubby of voting you when your wagon gained momentum, even though his vote was the only vote added to your wagon. HYPOCRISY.

Thats a little off, and the fine detail switch changes it entirely. I accused him of voting me when I seemed vulnerable. Something you agree to later on in your argument against Llama.

I never bothered to acknowledge the ti thing? I'm not even sure what you mean, I explained and talked about my reasoning, so I sure acknowledged it at least.

Look back at Day 1 and even your comments on TI are so non-committal that he has a valid point.

Mmmn, I can kind of see what you're talking about. Still, I don't think he's really looking at it that way, and just parroting other peoples things because he really doesn't have the ability to present points on his own.

And the third one, while I wasn't 'buddying up', is null in any case because that was after your vote on me and if you can't provide any sort of reasoning for your vote on me from before I voted you, which I'm pretty sure you aren't able to, then you voted me for essentially no reason. And I think thats pretty scummy.

And, the first two points you've had ample time to bring up, you preferably should have provided them in the post you voted me, because right now it looks like you're trying to dig up reasons post-vote because you can't really think of any.

A good point destroyed by the raging hypocrisy of the situation, in which this whole exercise was an attempt to "dig up reasons to post-vote because you can't really think of any."

Couple that with continuing to vote for Tubby (though now it's self-preservation, it seems) regardless of your waning suspicion and rising accusations against Llama as a more likely candidate regardless of Tubby's behavior, and your case on Tubby is very weak.

I actually am suspecting Llama more and more, and my thinking he was bussing Tubby was based on the fact that he was banking on Tubby not actually becoming a lynch. But, its not really possible for me to switch my vote to him to get him lynched, especially since you've unvoted him. And with how things are going, deadline approaching, and not many people getting on, and me actually looking like a better lynch than Tubby to Zilla, it looks like thats it. Nothing else I can really think of to say that would make the situation clear enough to get a productive lynch rather than me, but thats probably my fault for not being able to think of it, so I'm sorry. I'll still try though, I'm just getting the vibe that that right there is the vote that will send me to the gallows, ... wait...


I just thought about this. You're voting me because Charter said ages ago that he knew I wouldn't be scum? Wow, thats pretty damn weak. True shame that thats whats going to kill me via convincing you I should be the lynch. I'm not even sure what that proves at all, though it probably proves something I'm not seeing. Only thing I could think of right now would be that he's scum knowing I'd be town, which would mean you're lynching me on the assumption that I'm town.
Oh well, not much I can do right now as it is, though there may be hope considering there are three days left for things to get sorted out better.

[Hybris]

I don't see why I should even bother claiming because, really, no matter what, I'm gonna be the lynch and there is little that can be done to stop it. And, my claim will only make me scummier in any case. But, might as well, just to see what kind of reaction it'll get.

Diane Simmons, vanilla townie.

[Hybris]

Mmn, might as well.

Unvote Vote: Charter

I'm not sure if he's scum, but I know for certain that I'm town *though many of you believe otherwise*, so I' gonna have to go with him.

[Hybris]

Well, I would say I'm the one thats gonna get lynched. And, its fair that he doesn't like my roleclaim, I admitted that vanilla was scummy in that post, I understand.

[Hybris]

Well, I tried. I sucked way too much to really help, but I tried. Good luck without me, and kill the FCC bastards.

*Dies*