Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[cassowary]

Hi!

I forgot how much text there is to read through on mafiascum games, jfc 12 pages. 100% on malcolm's side here.

Having skimmed to catch up I think titus and monkey man are probably the people that pinged me the most, mostly for gut reasons

I've played with Sword before and he is just kind of Like This, but also I don't think I've ever actually seen his town game so i could very well see him still being scum. it should become clearer later in the game though, i think he's not worth eliminating d1

[cassowary]

I've played with Sword before and he is just kind of Like This

When have you played with Sword before? This appears to be the first game that that account has played.

I've played a couple games with him on our homesite - a couple games where I was town and he was scum, and a game where I was scum and he was SK

so yeah, haven't seen his town game but in my experience he does tend to post like this even when it's not really strategically optimal, so i am not sure it's an intentional strategy / alignment indicative

I will stand by that I think he will become easier to read as the game goes on tho

[cassowary]

I've played with Sword before and he is just kind of Like This

When have you played with Sword before? This appears to be the first game that that account has played.

I've played a couple games with him on our homesite - a couple games where I was town and he was scum, and a game where I was scum and he was SK

so yeah, haven't seen his town game but in my experience he does tend to post like this even when it's not really strategically optimal, so i am not sure it's an intentional strategy / alignment indicative

I will stand by that I think he will become easier to read as the game goes on tho

Do the games on that site tend to be more casual?

yes

How is this game at 11 pages already.

hot take: commenting about the page count is >rand scum

is this actually true or is it just something people say so much that they believe it to be true

low lvl scum struggle to keep up with hyperposting

that may be true, but there's also only so many hours in the day for wading through pages of nothing

also, flooding the thread can just as well be a mafia tactic to swamp genuine discussion and make it harder to build a case

[cassowary]

No one else think it's odd that leaf was advising a possible mafia miller to claim?

this is a weird point anyway - even if that was what he meant (which i'm pretty sure it wasn't), if he was mafia why would he say that in the main thread? even if he was on team werewolf, what would his motive be?

[cassowary]

Can someone give me an update on what's happened while I was taking stupid mandatory testing?

My dude if you want to do well in this game you are going to need to start reading the thread and catching up on what you missed yourself.

Not a fan of the way monkey keeps jumping out and doing stuff and then immediately backtracking when accused. Was suspicious of him before and nothing he's done has really assuaged that. He also hasn't really been super responsive to a lot of clarifying questions and followup discussion. And I agree the timing / inconsistency around the reads list is weird. I guess I could say, it's not necessarily scum behavior, but it's odd

VOTE: Monkeyman576

Still don't get the 'complain about pagecount' read. There were like three people including me who said the same thing and it was an understandable reaction to logging in a few hours after the game started to see a double digit number of pages. I thought it was kinda jokey at the time but I'm a little surprised people are still legit considering it. I don't actually think CSF looks that suspicious, but well done's accusation of menalque in 460 seems like a reach.

[cassowary]

For the most part the reasoning for the people voting for me is extremely flimsy. I have an opinion or two, another player with good reason questions the opinion, I don't get all huffy puffy with them like some people do when they're questioned, and all of a sudden I'm backpedaling somehow? This is more of a case of people trying to push me in to a corner just for having an opinion and then trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, or as some would call it, voting for LHF. Why not focus on those that are not actually contributing to the game or are doing something actually scummy?

Idk, this response seems kinda huffy puffy to me :p

It's not a crime to be convinced by someone else's argument and go 'oh that's a good point' but it's weird to say stuff like you have a reason and then immediately backtrack on it when called out. People aren't pushing you into a corner for having an opinion, they're pushing you into a corner for pushing weird things and then not standing by them when people question it. Esp because you're not going "oh that's a good point that I didn't consider" you're going "oh I didn't expect anyone to take the initial thing I said seriously" which is a weird thing to expect imo

[cassowary]

Alright, school's over, what'd I miss?

What if, instead of asking this, you read over what was posted since you

last

asked this, and then told us what you thought about it?

[cassowary]

Alright, school's over, what'd I miss?

What if, instead of asking this, you read over what was posted since you

last

asked this, and then told us what you thought about it?

Going back - I've mostly found cassowary's play alright but this post feels oddly confrontational in an unnatural way. Cassowary, like me, said they were slightly aggrieved when they joined to see the high post count and the game has been moving quickly so far. Why the sudden snark when someone else casually asks for a catch-up?

This is...not how they normally treat me...

Normally I feel like you do a bit more reading ._.;

like half your posts this game have just been asking people to summarize the game for you - the nature of the game is you're not going to be able to read all the posts as they come in, so you've got to be comfortable with at least skimming what happened when you weren't there to catch up

[cassowary]

well that was a fun series of posts to catch up on

I don't really see the case on Malcolm as scum, I think he looks pretty townie to me for now.

No real opinion on any of these meta reads, these do nothing for me, I know none of you. I'm sure you're all very cool and good at mafia. However I do think looking over Flavor Leaf's iso, a lot of his posting has been kind of reactive and/or meta discussion, which is pinging me a little bit.

I kind of see the point on monkeyman that he's acting

weird

but not necessarily scummy. Not sure he's my top suspicion at the moment.

pedit: originally I moved my vote to flavor leaf here but then he made a couple nice posts with detailed reasoning and now I'm conflicted again.

I'm not really sure I see the case on catboi as scum, to be honest. I suppose it's possible but nothing about their posts is really particularly sticking out to me.

Honestly, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit all-over-the-place at the moment, this is the first time I've played a multiball game

or

a hydra game, so it's a bit tricky to read people in ways I'm used to and it's kind of a lot to deal with, haha. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time though.

One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one

fantastic

role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

[cassowary]

god I'm so behind. I think next week hopefully I'll be able to keep up with this better :s

I don't super see the case on scum wallflower tbh

I'm finding it a lot easier to TR players in this game than SR them despite the high scum count between different teams.

Sameee. I think it's because scum can make genuine seeming pushes on people on the other scumteam which can make them look townier. Still trying to get the hang of it.

Quite frankly, there are 9 scum in the game so jumping on a few wagons is pro town and not pro scum.

I don't follow this logic at all. The issue is that a lot of your posts feel opportunistic like you're good with voting out whoever regardless of how you actually feel about them

I have received the heebie jeebies.

-snip-

This feels like such a specific reason.

And Flavor Leaf has presented it, which apparently not knowing who Tracer Bullet is. and presented as being based on exactly the posts of Tracer Bullet in this game.

While Catboi has presented it, while knowing exactly who Tracer Bullet was, and presented as being based on exactly the way in which Pooky has engaged with them in the past, in past games, on different alts.

I'm not sure this is heebies-worthy. I think it's a reasonable point to make that I honestly agree with, as someone without much prior context for this, iirc tracer was making a lot of points based around

how it would be if someone was scum

rather than making cases

that they were scum

(#957, #978, etc). At least that's how their posts read to me idk

---

re Sword I think this reads like townie sword to me. I especially think if this is scum sword we have a good chance of being able to catch him out on something later. I don't think he is the type to try and pull a crazy early-claim gambit as scum.

I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.

Odds anyone is anything are low, aren't they? This feels like trying to hide a push on someone widely townread using purely meta/setup-speculation-based reasoning as a front. If there

is

a VT in the setup at all,

someone's

got to be it. It's like accusing someone of lying about their birthday because there's only a 1/365 chance that would be their birthday, it's really halfassed reasoning.

... Okay, everyone else said the same thing afterwards. But, yeah, what they said. This feels like a lazy push on someone you're worried about becoming locktown.

---

I’m sorry you’re feeling down bnuuy, you seem like a cool person

However even prior to drama I didn’t really see any solving in your ISO and that’s enough for me to kill you

If you’re town it would be very helpful to me if you could tell me who you think is scum and why

Not sure I see bnuuy's posts as super 'not engaged with the game,' they seem to be generally commenting on stuff and giving reads at the very least.

Like I could def see their iso coming from scum and I wouldn't be surprised if they were but they are far from the least engaged person here if that's the reason.

I'm pretty null on bnuuy overall I think for now, not sure they're my top suspect for today.

---

Final thoughts:

Keeping my vote on monkey man for now. Too much weird continuing to happen for me to write it off as 'weird town', sorry.

Well Done has also been pinging me a bit just because they consistently seem to have the opposite opinion on stuff from me and I find that strange I guess.

I definitely think the multiball game is making it harder for me to get solid SRs on people especially day 1.

[cassowary]

I'm starting to feel ill so I must question my reads from this morning.

Can someone briefly give me points where they feel I'm wrong besides catboi is too town to be town?

~Titus

You showed up late. You need to look at that bnuuy wagon.

I will but I feel that it's another counter to catboi. That makes me think town before reading.

However, I am open to being wrong. It's also getting to the point where there are so many counters that catboi may need to be eliminated as catboi couldn't live until elo.

~Titus

i don't follow this at all, this feels like moon logic to me. why would 'there are a lot of counter wagons to catboi' mean 'we need to eliminate catboi at some point'? is that you're worried we're just getting distracted from catboi and not properly evaluating whether he's town or not? or... what?

I would like someone to make fan art where enchant is Not_Mafia’s child

this is a bit weirdChamp
why are you asking for what feels like fan art of real people

p sure it's a joke on the fact both players (apparently) habitually quickhammer for no reason

having played with not_mafia in one of my few previous MS games, I 100% believe this is a thing... but i will never be able to understand.

[cassowary]

Menalque can take the brunt and blame here if Bnuuy's town.

yeah nope I don't like this

Bunny, I saved your wagon.

You just dont like my ego, and I understand. I get it, that one's on me.

I actually agree with bnuuy here, I'm not a fan of "if X person flips town we go after Y person" type reasoning since it feels very exploitable by scum

[cassowary]

Menalque can take the brunt and blame here if Bnuuy's town.

yeah nope I don't like this

Bunny, I saved your wagon.

You just dont like my ego, and I understand. I get it, that one's on me.

I actually agree with bnuuy here, I'm not a fan of "if X person flips town we go after Y person" type reasoning since it feels very exploitable by scum

Sure it is, I'm more just nudging at Menalque more than anything.

I've called Menalque town multiple times this game.

Noting Catboi's town read on Casso followed by the pressure of Casso onto me for ISO.

reasoning since it feels very exploitable by scum

being something that is exploitable as scum does not make it scum, though.

I mean, you may have a point, but ngl, this feels like a lot of Response™ given the actual substance of what I posted.

[cassowary]

I'm sure it'll calm down in later days, it's a big game and people are posting a lot. Also, the pages only have 25 posts on them so it's not

quite

as much as it seems like

[cassowary]

sure, but it's not something i dont think isn't capable of scum, it's very possible you're town. im just more noting Catboi's action, not yours.

Because I didnt get that ping from your post, i didnt get the scum ping either.

But i did expect there to be someone to start coming towards me based on ScumCatboi's choice towards me.

So I've been waiting for someone like you, which is why it was important to me to note.

Also maybe I'm an idiot (ok, ok. . . I'm definitely an idiot) but I've read this post like 5 times and I can't make sense of what it means. Can you rephrase this in different words?

It's not something you don't think scum isn't capable of => it's something you think scum isn't capable of? or... it's not something you think

only

scum are capable of? or, what? Also what does "it" refer to? Agreeing with bnuuy? What does catboi have to do with this other than having said earlier that a different post of mine looked townie? I'm confused :|

[cassowary]

sure, but it's not something i dont think isn't capable of scum, it's very possible you're town. im just more noting Catboi's action, not yours.

Because I didnt get that ping from your post, i didnt get the scum ping either.

But i did expect there to be someone to start coming towards me based on ScumCatboi's choice towards me.

So I've been waiting for someone like you, which is why it was important to me to note.

Also maybe I'm an idiot (ok, ok. . . I'm definitely an idiot) but I've read this post like 5 times and I can't make sense of what it means. Can you rephrase this in different words?

It's not something you don't think scum isn't capable of => it's something you think scum isn't capable of? or... it's not something you think

only

scum are capable of? or, what? Also what does "it" refer to? Agreeing with bnuuy? What does catboi have to do with this other than having said earlier that a different post of mine looked townie? I'm confused

it's more about Catboi than you, because I expected some interest or pushing towards me by a Catboi partner.

So the fact Catboi town read you, then the small pushing onto me piggybacking on Bnuuy's posts is what gave me pause.

The post itself that Catboi town read you for didnt ping me either way.

If you're town, yes, you just came across this all naturally. if you're scum, you did it with intent.

It's too early for me to tell which is which.

ahh, ok, thanks, that makes sense

[cassowary]

i think i know who you are, since you invited me to the game :p

that said, if your intent is to keep your identity a secret, drawing attention to it is probably not the best way to accomplish that lol

[cassowary]

Hey, sorry. I have had a crazy busy weekend. I will catch up and give thoughts soon. I should be more active in the game next week.

[cassowary]

ah i have like 50 pages to catch up on, fun!

fully admitting i'm heavily skimming over the 500 pages of flavor leaf/well done back and forth, jfc

Still completely do not understand why FL is so heavily tunnelled on catboi. i feel like there are better candidates.

I think that Flavor Leaf's reaction to getting scumread by Well Done fucking sucks. The progression from scum reading them -> calling them wrong town -> getting tilted at them and calling them liock scum is super sketchy. It doesn't look like a genuine evaluation but scum shifting through different angles trying to get the heat off them. It's a very Prism-esque progression, it just feels very fake. The attacks read more like playing offense to play defense because he's really bothered by the scumread on him. I would think that if he had truly gotten frustrated with Well Done and thought they were town just dumbly tunneled on him, he'd just back off and stop engaging with them, but instead he keeps going and 180s. The only reason I can see for this happening is because he's

really

bothered by their scumread on him and wants to discredit it. There's not even really a possibility he gets yeeted Day 1, he just wants to stamp out all opposition to him.

Mmmm, I kinda wish I could see the case for scum catboi but I really vibe with this post tbh so it's hard for me to feel it. It does kinda feel like FL is trying to kind of control the narrative and if people disagree with him he kind of goes 'well that just means you're scum too!!' which I just can't really abide as a strategy even if it is how he plays as town. Maybe I'm bringing in my own bias here but the way I very lightly pushed him earlier and he posted like 3 posts in response going "you're probably scum with catboi and also the thing I posted wasn't even actually suspicious" really gave me a weird feeling

Catboi entire catchup, and it just happens to come right after I’m away,

Is set up to piggyback off of Well Done.

One of his main things was to pick that Mastina push right after 2180 acting like 2189 wasn’t the exact reason I went that direction.

I think you're too committed to your own personal view of the game and interpreting everything in that light. What if this

is

just a coincidence? It happens.

----

Nashville Dreams I could go for a vote on. They aren't actually super-low-post-count but their posts really don't seem to have a lot of substance to them, kinda fluffy/reactive. And their posts

with

reasoning don't really even seem to make sense half the time. I could definitely see this as slacking scum.

VOTE: Nashville Dreams

----

Any gambits I take are generally incredibly safe, I just take risks, but always calculated risks.

I'm insanely calculating as scum.

And this is not it.

Mmmmnope. Definitely don't like how informed this feels. I feel like "I wouldn't do this as scum" type arguments rarely come from town

Catboi/Cassowary scum team.

why tho

w/ all due respect you are reading way too much into two unrelated posts that happened to be next to each other like 15 pages prior

I mean for goodness' sake what if catboi is scum but he's just pocketing me, what then

Yes I called out post counts.
Because we have over 90 pages of shit flinging that's done nothing but kick up a stink.
So much so there's a clear divide between 1/3rd of the game and the rest of it.
And still people are wanting shots at the lurkers?

srsly guys please have some understanding for those of us who like to do things on the weekends ;-;

50 pages? really?

-----

I don't really understand the FL claim (why does he have to be mafia if scum? help) but if people don't want to get rid of him today for reasons I think that's fine. Not sure I really buy him as town, but if the wagon isn't going to gain traction I think there are other places we can look.

Poor newbies underestimating the scum game of a guy whose schtick is that he likes to talk about how good he is as scum

Yeah I'm going to be honest Catboi, these posts do not help at all, and the same goes for Flavor when they're making similar posts. I don't claim to be an expert at this game nor even particularly good at it, but we have no reason to blindly trust you on this, and posts like this feel designed to make players (I presume Butter above) doubt their reads not for inherently being inaccurate or bad but for failing to understand complex meta dynamics only experienced players can get. Essentially going by this logic it's somewhat impossible for a player who hasn't played with Flavor to town read them and only your read (or the reads of others who agree with you) can be accurate.

Yeah, getting this same vibe from both catboi+FL here. I know it's D1, but surely there's stuff within the game we can point to to support reads. Some of the reasoning on display feels inaccessible towards those of us who don't have meta experience with most of you, and it kind of makes me feel mistrustful of the reads that result since it feels a little bit like "oh this person doesn't normally act like this, just trust me" which is weird.

I think a reaction to that might be a reason I feel a bit committed to suspecting FL -- I think a lot of his actual actions here have been sketchy, and "ohh he's always like this though" means nothing to me

TThe main thing the two of us know about each other I feel, is they win scum games.

I mean, what am I supposed to make of something like this, this is completely useless to me as evidence for a case.

You're literally fucking coming into the game and actively jsut pushing all the people I defended right before you came in.

This is all you ever fucking do.

like, maybe it's just not about you? Starting to think FL is just town who interprets everything as being in response to him

Hey, sorry. I have had a crazy busy weekend. I will catch up and give thoughts soon. I should be more active in the game next week.

Oh yeah, this is possible scum too, but i dont care to push the lower activity posters day 1.

Lol

----

Post-SCP-replacement: Ok I don't think I want to eliminate FL today. If he is scum I think it'll be easier to read on later days. But I can see him as town now, I don't think scum gets this genuinely tilted over people disagreeing with their reads

The main reason I'm not contributing to the level I'd like to atm is that on any given page I'm reading a bunch of stuff from FL that I don't know how to process, and as a result I feel fairly crowded out of the game

hi, yes

-----

I feel good on butterchurn, I feel like they're generally picking up on the same things that I would pick up on and their opinions seem reasonable and well-founded. I don't really get the impression they're unengaged with the game at all.

Not a fan of toogeloo's naked votes either.

Keeper + Nashville Dreams feel like active lurking.

----

In post 1102, Sword of Ducks wrote:
One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one fantastic role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Well this is super fucking scummy. Like hardcore.

????

-----

Sword of Ducks
MalcolmTucker
butterchurn
Cat Scratch Fever
bnuuy
NorwegianboyEE
Save The Dragons
Wallflower
MonkeyMan576
Well Done
Tracer Bullet
MegAzumarill
Menalque
Klick
mastina
catboi
Flavor Leaf
tictac
Toogeloo
Enchant
The Keeper
Nashville Dreams

[cassowary]

I guess voting ND may be weird now because they're like catching up and posting and stuff. Will reevaluate after they're done catching up.

[cassowary]

maybe I should have split this up into multiple posts as i was catching up. sorry

[cassowary]

I guess voting ND may be weird now because they're like catching up and posting and stuff. Will reevaluate after they're done catching up.

I'm still really behind I'm at 56/125.

Hey I just caught up from 77, I believe in you!

[cassowary]

Basically:
1: We have a week until deadline
2: I am catching up
3: A fair amount of the strength in my catboi townread comes from content later in my catchup
4: catboi is the main wagon right now
5: I am not defending catboi
6: Wallflower is insinuating that because of point #4, point #5 makes me suspect.
7: I am rebuking that point by demonstrating that, thanks to point #1, there is no need for a catboi elimination to be pushed through
8: If a catboi elimination is not pushed through while I am catching up, there was no need for me to defend him, since I can defend him after the catchup or later during it
9: If a catboi elimination IS pushed through while I am catching up, then it is the players involved that are to blame, not me, because of points 2, 3, and 8.

I'm not sure how else to explain this.

You're acting like you know catboi would flip town.

Mastina is obv scum to me tbh.

She’s making sure that if Catboi fade went through certain things are known.

I do think it's very weird that she made a post saying "if we eliminate someone who I think is town, then it wasn't my fault!"

like, why would you be so scared of people blaming you for insufficiently defending a townie - wouldn't suspicion fall on the people who were actually pushing for the town flip in the first place? Very weird post

like, I get that it was in response to wallflower saying 'why did you justify one townread but not the other,' but the focus on 'will I be blamed if they flip town' is weird imo

[cassowary]

In post 1102, Sword of Ducks wrote:
One game town with the same exact role, two games I played poorly as mafia, and one fantastic role madness game as a serial killer.

Just to be clear, you're claiming you've rolled vanilla townie in this game?

Well this is super fucking scummy. Like hardcore.

...why?

Give you a hint:

Use a line

Yeah I still don't know what this means, can you give more of a hint :/

For context, the game SoD was referring to was a game with no power roles, so I wanted to make sure of what he meant by "the same role". Plus, I guess I didn't see the advantage in holding on to the info about his role privately since he had basically already claimed and had already hinted at being vanilla. Better to have the info out there unambiguously publicly so he'd be locked into this early game claim and if I died/left the info wouldn't die with me. (well I guess bnuuy would know as well but idk if I can trust him!)

Maybe that was a bad play (oops?), but I don't really see why it's

scummy

per se. Like, I already knew his role, how would publicly outing it benefit me as scum? Wouldn't scum want to hang onto that info secretly and use it to their advantage? idgi

[cassowary]

enchant does this lurkfuck no reads no solviness shit as scum all the time this is his scum meta thoroughly.
Vote enchant.
Don't believe me? Just read the damn ISO.

but does he do the same thing as town tho

the first game i played on this site had not_mafia in it, who enchant has been compared to, and i advocated to vote him over that kind of thing and it turned out he was just trolling town :/

if this is how enchant acts as scum or town, this doesn't mean he's scum just bc he acts like this as scum - annoying as it might be that does make it nai

[cassowary]

enchant does this lurkfuck no reads no solviness shit as scum all the time this is his scum meta thoroughly.
Vote enchant.
Don't believe me? Just read the damn ISO.

but does he do the same thing as town tho

the first game i played on this site had not_mafia in it, who enchant has been compared to, and i advocated to vote him over that kind of thing and it turned out he was just trolling town :/

if this is how enchant acts as scum or town, this doesn't mean he's scum just bc he acts like this as scum - annoying as it might be that does make it nai

no thats completely false

wow.

AFAICT your reasoning is:

a. enchant does this as scum
b. enchant is doing this
c. therefore enchant is scum

But that doesn't hold unless you also show enchant

doesn't

do this as town. It's like saying "dogs have four legs, my cat has four legs, therefore my cat is a dog"

If you have actual evidence this behavior is specific to enchant's scum game, I would love to see it. But based on the evidence put forth so far, it sounds like this behavior is NAI for them, so you'll have to forgive me for not being convinced.

[cassowary]

The fact that Cassowary has additional meta in addition to the 3 games I just saw Enchant as town doing nothing in means that the lurker case is not enough.

SPC, you could be correct, but the meta case isn't the reason nor what you can do to push them.

Wait, to be clear, I don't have additional meta. I just have been bitten by a case with a similar player before but not enchant. I have never played with enchant.

[cassowary]

Guys it's day 1 sometimes people just don't agree with your reads and that's okay it doesn't make them a bad person

[cassowary]

Man what is it with this game, this is hard to read

Not sure I really see the case on scum CSF, to be honest. On the other hand, I'm not sure why I had them so high in my reads as town before, I think I might have confused them with someone else. (probably StD) oops

I think Well Done's case for town Keeper makes a whole lot of sense.

I could go for bnuuy elimination today as well if that's the direction it goes. A lot of their posts just feel kind of perfunctory and it feels like they are maybe more interested in keeping up the appearance of activity than solving the game.

Hi Ydrasse, sorry about the mess this game is :p

[cassowary]

I could go for bnuuy elimination today as well

nice do it please

Yeah ok

VOTE: bnuuy

I am not liking cassowary ftr. First he is on the Nashville wagon and now he's willing to hop over to a bnuuy wagon, pun intended.

(she)

I mean, I'd rather get rid of someone than have a no-elimination, and I think ND and bnuuy both look kinda sus, what's the issue?

[cassowary]

Yeah I feel like FL's town-ND argument can equally be applied to any wagon that has traction to reach majority which makes it seem like FL just doesn't want to eliminate ND

I could go for bnuuy elimination today as well

nice do it please

Yeah ok

VOTE: bnuuy

I am not liking cassowary ftr. First he is on the Nashville wagon and now he's willing to hop over to a bnuuy wagon, pun intended.

(she)

I mean, I'd rather get rid of someone than have a no-elimination, and I think ND and bnuuy both look kinda sus, what's the issue?

The fact that you're willing to elim someone just to elim is sus first of all. I don't think you really think they look sus except that they have had wagons against them.

Oh yeah? Well,

I

think I

do

really think they look sus! Check and mate baybee

Like... I mean yeah there are other people I think look sus who it would be harder to gain traction on, but I'm not gonna pull out a wild vanity wagon, that's not actually helpful, so I'm gonna give consideration to the major targets and vote them if I agree with the wagon. That's just how you play the game

[cassowary]

went from 0 to 60 in 2 minutes that looked like it was trying to save catboi

part of the reason it went 0-60 was FL deliberately sabotaging it to get people back onto catboi so

not sure that holds up

I am one vote. this is false.

You're also 20% of the posts in the game...

[cassowary]

You're also 20% of the posts in the game...

not even sure I agree you were intentionally sabotaging the wagon but i think it's a bit disingenuous to imply 'i only have as much power as everyone else' when hyperposting to this degree

[cassowary]

Even if it's possible that catboi is town, there's going to be the possibility that he's scum and can we really trust his gamesolving?

again isn't this true of everyone who is not yourself

[cassowary]

I just am tired of the catboi thing. I think it's pretty clear we aren't going to get rid of him today. Let's save sorting him for later when we have more data to work off of. It's day 1.

[cassowary]

Even if it's possible that catboi is town, there's going to be the possibility that he's scum and can we really trust his gamesolving?

again isn't this true of everyone who is not yourself

You don't think there's a possibility catboi is scum?

Oh he totally could be! But "even if it's possible they're town, there's the possibility they're scum" applies to every single person in the game on day 1, it's not a reason to eliminate catboi today over anyone else.

I just am tired of the catboi thing. I think it's pretty clear we aren't going to get rid of him today. Let's save sorting him for later when we have more data to work off of. It's day 1.

Even more of a reason to push there, tbh.

Because it's happening until Catboi is dead.

This feels like a threat somehow

[cassowary]

yes I think we've all read that post

[cassowary]

yes I think we've all read that post

Oh, you'd think....you'd think.

Are you implying the post is so good that anyone who reads it is instantly convinced and the only reason anyone would be voting anyone other than catboi is because they haven't yet read the post and been exposed to the Glorious Truth of Scum Catboi?

[cassowary]

nah fl and monkey are like hella town just extremely tunneled

yeah I think FL is town he's just uhhh.... going through something

[cassowary]

honestly at this point i'm not voting catboi today partially out of spite even if i did find him suspicious

i don't want to send a message that this is a good way to push a wagon

i will give catboi his due consideration later in the game

btw think mena is still.scum but he seems to he hunting for opposite team so its ok he can live

"Town"block opposing d1 catboi lim go brrr

why the air quotes, you just called Monkey and I town, so this means you scum read Wallf?

p sure they were talking about menalque who you seem to be insistently calling by a stupid name like an elementary school bully

[cassowary]

Who is blank boy? Didn't find it in player list.

Menalque.

[cassowary]

mafia is not therapy, though

Yeah, that's a different party game

[cassowary]

Alright. Calm down, everyone. Let me set the mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kuwwta_Mms

Relax, sit back, and let's take in the state of play together.

We have many differentiating viewpoints here, based on little more than simple stipulation. We have no hard evidence of a single claim made in this thread. I suggest we head to Day 2, and see what comes of it.

the power is in your hands to push one of the wagons closer to ending the day !

[cassowary]

Not sure I like this quick move away from bnuuy for the second time this game. I mean if "there are so many counters to catboi so he's probably scum" then what is this?

Tictac feels like low-hanging fruit to me, it's easy to point at the shitposty lurker and call them suspicious and I don't like how fast this went down. I may come around later but I'm gonna take things slowly I think.

[cassowary]

Spoiler:

I get townvibes from this and would like to know if anyone disagrees

I disagree

i'm claiming that i'm not in any hood

why tho?

marcistar is so kawaii

that's a valid read into the game

:up:

idk if koba is town. i dont know if a rapid show of gamesolving to get townread early is outside of their scum range. i also think that the way they went so hot on Dwlee on a poor reaction test makes me think it's fabricated so they can have somewhere to push.

yeah. it's null
same w lion

hectic what do you think of koba

why do folks think i'm hectic?
no opinion yet

why can't they be town using forced reads?

why would they have to? if scum and it's within their reportoire, they already took that shot in dwlee. i'm not sure there was any development in that read thus far — so why would they do another forced read and vote me?

only town would have to, maybe

ebwop :P

tho actually they do it cause it's what they do as town (as both align)

these are literally posts from a mini normal tictac was last in as town btw

these are within their first TEN posts.


this is clear towny solve energy.

this is absent this game.

ope forgot to switch accounts

ngl i do not see as big a difference here as you seem to

I don't really get why tic tac is scum instead of a mildly useless town.

yeh

----

Agree w/ butterchurn that toogeloo is the scummiest lurker, if we want to do a lurker push that one i could maybe get behind. but pushing lurkers is an easy way for scum to get miseliminations because the lurkers probably won't push back very much. and having the bnuuy wagon get derailed for the second time with a sudden lurker push is really not sitting right with me.

especially people 'not being as engaged as they were in other games/being more focused on what people said to/about them' when the game is One Hundred and Seventy-Five Pages Long On Day One does Not seem like a super clear scum tell to me

[cassowary]

i'm just so very very tired you see

VOTE: toogeloo

whatever

[cassowary]

this is unequivocally a stupid compromise wagon, but i need the day to be over and for us to get some actual mod confirmed info or i think my head is going to explode

[cassowary]

Yay page 200

[cassowary]

i want the day to end but i don't want to acquiesce to FL holding the entire game hostage to push his pet elimination

butter: I think Flavor was the one who put it at E-1 and then Flavor and StD both left the wagon so now it's E-3

[cassowary]

i want the day to end but i don't want to acquiesce to FL holding the entire game hostage to push his pet elimination

butter: I think Flavor was the one who put it at E-1 and then Flavor and StD both left the wagon so now it's E-3

It's not even just me.

And that's a bad reason, that's all personal.

The case on Catboi is far stronger than the case everywhere.

And Catboi flipping would actively make me less hyper pushy because im hyper pushy because I see they're scum, and pushing them.

it's not personal, it's behavior i don't want to encourage in general as a way to push a wagon. it's like the opposite of a policy vote.

[cassowary]

There Is A Possibility You Are Wrong !

what if catboi is town

who do you think is scum then

i stone cold do not get why you are so deeply convinced of this random day 1 read that you decided on like 150 pages ago, so much so that you're willing to blow up the entire game to this degree. it doesn't make any sense to me. you are in too deep, man. you are convinced catboi is scum and seeing evidence of it everywhere but for those of us who are not you it doesn't look as damning because we aren't reading things with the same assumptions as you. it doesn't mean everyone who disagrees is intentionally trying to undermine you, and acting like it does is not helping you make your case. i'm not even defending catboi. he could very well be scum idfk. but you have killed any chance i had of voting for him today.

[cassowary]

Also, I don't want my cases to be hidden after this scenario, so I'll quote them on the next page.

lol

[cassowary]

UNVOTE:

I want to hear what Nashville has to say.

[cassowary]

votecount 1.23

Toogeloo (11) | SCP 682, Ydrasse, Menalque, butterchurn, tictac, catboi, mastina, cassowary, Klick, Sword of Ducks, Save The Dragons

catboi (6) | MonkeyMan576, Nero Cain, Nashville Dreams, Flavor Leaf, Toogeloo, Cat Scratch Fever

MonkeyMan576 (1) | bnuuy, The Keeper
The Keeper (1) | Enchant
Flavor Leaf (1) | Dunnstral

Not Voting | MegAzumarill, MalcolmTucker, cassowary

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to politely ask someone to leave.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-05-09 09:41:00).

I am not currently voting toogeloo, waiting on Nashville

[cassowary]

Ok.

VOTE: toogeloo

[cassowary]

haha what

VOTE: monkeyman576

i could also go for flavor kill because, well. you know.

tictac: if you're cc'ing monkey as gunsmith, do

you

have a result from last night? or are you also x-shot/limited

[cassowary]

Based on 5346...

VOTE: flavor leaf

will reevaluate in the morning when am in better condition to think about this. but I think if tictac is voting FL I will sheep that for now??

[cassowary]

Besides that I breadcrumbed on the first page.

Where?

[cassowary]

Besides that I breadcrumbed on the first page.

Where?

My first letter, first post.

:/

VOTE: monkeyman576

[cassowary]

I'll remember that for the future. I should have done more crumbs. Never crumbed before.

okay i forgive you i'm sorry for voting you

UNVOTE:

That I find FL probable to be mafia/malefactor but there's no point limming there when we can get much more info about the nature if the catboi kill based on kills tomorrow (determining whether the kill was likely a vig shot or a factional kill for instance)
FL can be tunneled town but I find it less likely since they wouldn't have made that much of a stink yesterday and just quietly shot if they were actually vigi. Course I could be wrong.

Effectively FLs claim gets a lot more or less believable depending on tonight's kill(s) and tomorrow nights kill(s)

Did flavor claim ungated vig though?

They claim to be able to kill if every monk is alive

I think 'FL mafia' seems more likely than 'FL town vig and also both scum teams failed to kill last night'? and catboi being a bookie on werewolf means very likely mafia could have a gated vig type role on their team as well even if FL is partially telling the truth. also the setup explicitly says to expect weird role alignments

so i'm gonna move my vote back over to flavor leaf for now :o

VOTE: flavor leaf

what am I twisting?

5680, 5687 look like you're trying to twist her words into making her actions a towntell when she was in fact arguing they were NAI (she was just saying the action itself isn't a scumtell for her)

[cassowary]

ngl I don't really get how the numbers are supposed to help

[cassowary]

hi good morning

I think FL having claimed his ability in the monastery at night is potentially a sign he’s town
Ducks/cass, thoughts?

Ehh at this point thinking probably even if there's a chance he's scum it's probably better to leave him alive today to prove himself rather than killing him today

@cassv@dunn why are you voting fl?

Honestly just... it was a going wagon, i think there's a fair chance he is scum, and i think i was kind of annoyed with him from yesterday. Probably not the most rational reason to vote someone, lol. Given he was actually right on catboi and that he's chilled out with the post volume today I think it's probably not the correct wagon today.

On the other hand: I really don't like the 'pointing at his own meta' thing he keeps doing -- I want to give very little credence to "I would never do this as mafia just trust me"; either it's a trust tell (which is illegal) or he

would

do it as mafia and lie about it (which is just called being good at the game).

Even so, I'll move off him for now -- I don't think he's the best lead for today barring anything else weird that might happen.

UNVOTE:

FL already claimed vig so there’s only one town slot he could be. However he could still be any of the four mafia slots plus any werewolf slot with a gun.

This is a bad argument. We know he's not wolf and this is only the prior probability -- you have to take into account his behavior and stuff as well to determine what you think is his actual alignment.

It's not actually gambler's fallacy but it's, like... purposefully throwing away info available to you in favor of arguing as though you know nothing about the player's actual behavior, which seems unhelpful to me.

----

I think butterchurn is town, I've been on the same wavelength with them for most of the game & I don't really see why people think they look scummy.

I guess that could be pocket but I like how they seem to be coming from the same place as me which makes me want to trust them.

This game just isn’t and hasn’t been fun for ages but I feel that repping out ruins game integrity so I’m sticking with it at minimal activity hoping that either I get limmed or that enough people get limmed that I start wanting to play again

Vibe

i also vibe...

Bookie - player pms mod that a certain role will be eliminated the next day, if they are right they gain vig powers the next night.

im not going off the wiki.

????
What ARE you going off of? What other definition of Bookie have you seen? I’ve actually seen this role before, as has Cassowary (NPBR)

It was also in the upick game you hosted here on ms that I played (dannflor was it I think).

But, I don't really get what your point is in pointing this stuff out -- it seems like a lot of your suspicions are more about bringing up mechanical points/disagreements against people and pretending like that makes them suspicious. Like what is the point of this response to SCP's post at this point. Looks a bit like trying to force interactions with people without saying much that could tip your hand or potentially commit to an actual read on someone. The indignation at SCP here looks kinda weird to me.

Also this:

That's my policy in every game so your point is?

It’s a shit policy
Also given catboi being near constantly under pressure the push to extend the day seems like trying to fish for alternatives to happen

even if it's a shit policy, if it's a policy she has then it's silly to keep pushing it as a reason to SR her, right? you might think it's a bad way to play as town but that doesn't make her scummy in and of itself. so this looks weird to me as well.

-----

crappy gut reads:

Sword of Ducks
Save The Dragons
MonkeyMan576
butterchurn

MalcolmTucker
Dunnstral
tictac

Nero Cain
Flavor Leaf
The Keeper
Ydrasse
SCP 682
Enchant

MegAzumarill
Cat Scratch Fever

Nashville Dreams
mastina
bnuuy
Menalque
Klick

I need to go back and iso people, these are mostly not based on that much tbh. I've been busy on the weekends and this game has not really been motivating me that much to go dig deep on stuff.

Sorry I haven't done a whole lot of active play so far this game. In fairness I feel like i'm usually pretty weak in the early game. Bad at keeping track when there's a lot of people floating around with various relationships to each other. I tend to pick up a bit in the later game.

----

I still think bnuuy is suspicious. Sorry bnuuy :<

VOTE: bnuuy

I'm open to being convinced to vote CSF but can someone summarize the case on them? I feel like I kinda missed why everyone thinks they're suspicious other than 'their d1 posts weren't super substantive'. I

could

see their posts coming from mafia but I don't really see why people see them as the best vote right now

[cassowary]

Also I recall I used a different name for Bookie in that game I modded

ah, I see -- I definitely remember the term 'bookie' coming up at some point though in that game though so that was where my mind went first

@cass I don’t get how you think I’m avoiding giving hard reads, sure I’m not saying all of them explicitly but I think it should be apparent I SR SCP and MegA here

I guess I maybe misphrased that -- it's not that I think you're avoiding giving hard reads, it's that the reasoning for those reads feels kind of superficial and like you're avoiding giving concrete thoughts? like your objections to them seem to be mostly... 'procedural' and I'm not convinced those are good reasons to SR people. It's like you're trying to seem like you're giving legit reads but instead you're just pointing out mistakes/bad town play by people and then going 'I SR them for this' which doesn't make a lot of sense to me?

Like in 6132 it looks like you're acting like you find SCP suspicious over thinking bookie was something else but that's not an actual reason to find them suspicious, that's just them being wrong about something

pedit:

I still don't think it makes sense for FL's kill condition to be tied to keeping possible scum alive.

This is still weird to me too fwiw, but I don't think it's completely implausible as a balance condition for a town vig especially if there might be other gated town kill roles floating around?

[cassowary]

So you are claiming confirmed not werewolf, but not necessarily not mafia it sounds like.

but if they're mafia why would them not voting catboi be evidence they were scum

they wouldn't have known catboi's alignment to begin with

[cassowary]

didn't well done also do a similar 'why won't you answer my questions' thing on nashville

[cassowary]

(expired on 2022-05-11 18:39:53)

Hmm?

[cassowary]

VOTE: dunn

[cassowary]

would love if this game could go two seconds without devolving into people arguing about how good they are at mafia

[cassowary]

you just feel not that engaged with the substance of what's going on yeah, you feel kind of fixated on people's interactions with you personally over trying to read people generally ("why do you think I'm scummy", "why haven't you responded to the thing I said," etc) and also you claimed wolf miller which could be true but is inherently a little suspicious I think

[cassowary]

just someone you haven't played with -- this is like my third game on MS

[cassowary]

I've been playing mafia on a different site (a bit more casually) since like 2015 though which is where I know Sword and bnuuy from

[cassowary]

Although I feel like she kinda contradicts her reasoning

Agree w/ butterchurn that toogeloo is the scummiest lurker, if we want to do a lurker push that one i could maybe get behind.

this is unequivocally a stupid compromise wagon, but i need the day to be over and for us to get some actual mod confirmed info or i think my head is going to explode

I mean, I don't think this contradicts -- I wasn't really a fan of any lurker push and would've preferred to eliminate someone else, but I thought toogeloo was the scummiest of the lurkers and at that point I just wanted the day to end, so I was OK to vote there. It wasn't purely a vote of convenience.

I do like her first point on bnunny in 6147 but I still massively disagree that we are unable to scumread Meg just b/c "it's her policy". Coming in @ 195 pages and going "hey, lets spend more time!" It looked like an attempt to cause even more apathy. It wasn't pro-town in the least to just ignore what was happening and I legit felt like her just sticking to a script. Maybe you could argue that she's just not very good @ reading the room but it wasn't a pro-town play in the slightest.

She seemingly had her in her lean scum pile which is ???

Wrt this... I don't actually think Meg looks particularly townie, I was more bringing this up in the context of bnuuy's post -- bnuuy seemed to acknowledge it was a general policy, just said 'it's a bad policy' but then implied that that made them scumread Meg. Which didn't make a whole lot of sense to me; having a bad policy doesn't make someone scum, it makes them someone with a bad policy.

I suspect Meg but I can definitely see this particular behavior coming from town her especially given that after she posted that she did seem to engage with the game more. As someone who has also had trouble keeping up with this game at times, I think it makes sense to be like 'hold on I'm not gonna vote anyone until I have had a chance to actually engage with the game today'

otoh I'm not a fan of a lot of meg's actual takes and the way a lot of her posting today has been focused on either the suspicion on her or setup spec, so I could totally see her as scum, but I just don't think the 'extra time' thing is that suspicious

[cassowary]

Mafia and wolf might both have a win condition like 'you win when you make up a majority of the town' tho, so it'd be good to make sure of whether they match or not. Like, is it 'identical wording of the win condition' or is it 'wins under same conditions' (in which case mafia and werewolf wouldn't match)?

[cassowary]

all four alignments have different wincons is the impression i have

hmm, then what's the point of specifying 'identical wincon' over just 'same alignment'? don't those mean the same thing?

[cassowary]

that isn't really a rationale to scumread me, it's just a vote on me followed by a description of some of my votes d1

[cassowary]

Butter being malefactor is surprising to me bc I really wanted to trust him, but I guess maybe makes sense in retrospect? I guess I also gotta reconsider.

Mastina being scum isn't that surprising tho.

[cassowary]

I have info that a player here is not a werewolf

is it someone who's not already a monk this time?

[cassowary]

what

[cassowary]

lmao

[cassowary]

VOTE: cass that makes it better tho - cass please explain why you responded to me like that when i pushed you to vote enchant when you had enchant in bottom 3

because your reasoning was nonsense and i thought nashville was scummier

[cassowary]

also why did enchant move up in 6147

i dunno, gut read? i said in that post a lot of the reads weren't based on much

i don't like SRing people for lurking generally since i honestly tend to be lurkier as town than scum, and i think enchant ended up at the bottom of the first list kinda by PoE. and in the second one i felt like there were a bunch more people i was legitimately suspicious of for reasons vs just 'enchant is not saying a lot' which ehh

i dunno, i've found reading this game to be really hard due to the whole multiball thing, a lot of the stuff i often look for is kind of absent so my reads this game have been pretty gut-heavy which i normally don't like

u should be more curious why cass had enchant in bottom 3 and soft defended enchant when i tried to get their vote on enchant

your argument was literally a formal fallacy so i pushed back on it because it was a bad argument

i kind of hoped you would come back and make a better case to convince me by showing the thing was actually a scumtell for enchant but instead you just went NO YOU'RE WRONG which didn't exactly make me want to go along with your case

[cassowary]

i don't think i ever really townread enchant, they just floated up to the bottom of null after being closer to the bottom

[cassowary]

Side note: I'm not 100% sure I see why everyone is wagoning CSF, tbh.

Like, I get that Mastina defended CSF, but her CSF defense looked like this:

Also, I was apparently mistaken in my belief that FL was the main wagon, so I'm going to need to step up, because CSF is just town. Period.

CSF is a townread, and nothing today has weakened that read. Quite the opposite, in fact.

So the only wagon that I could conceivably be wrong on is Cat Scratch Fever, but basically every single slot I scumread is explicitly fine with Wagoning CSF.

I might be middle of the road reads-wise, but I am not going to have a 0% accuracy in my scumreads.

So with LITERALLY ALL MY SCUMREADS being okay with Wageningen CSF and LITERALLY NONE OF THEM DEFENDING CSF, there's a 0% chance of CSF being scum.


So, while I COULD be wrong here...I am not.

There's no nuance or possibility of doubt here at all, Mastina claims to have one hundred percent god-given certainty that CSF is town. Would Mastina defend a teammate this strongly as mafia? (Legitimate question.)

This kind of looks more to me like mastina trying to tie herself to CSF to pocket a town CSF or make CSF look suspicious when she flipped. And CSF was already under some suspicion, so her doing this intense of a defense would make her look not great if CSF flipped mafia. And we now also know CSF is not wolf. So I'm not sure why people think CSF is the best vote here.

-----

With regards to Meg on the other hand, Mastina seemed to kind of just slip in 'Meg is town' into her reads without really elaborating much:

except tictac/Meg cuz I don't remember any posts by either player(I've also got shit for memory)

tictac's looking like the same town tictac I've seen in my last two or three games with tictac.

MegAzumarill is similarly looking vaguely town to me.

To be honest the main reason Meg's not townier to me is that Meg's posts are so townie to me that it's keeping me from townreading Meg harder because I've not townread Meg this hard when MegAzumarill was actually town.

MegAzumarill and Toogeloo voting me is, like, expected behavior for them. They both have...low-effort playstyles, sheeping the largest wagon is totally within their town range.

Meg? Yes. It's town-indicative.

Toog? No, it's literally the opposite. Toog never makes that vote as town.

-{MegAzumarill, Nashville Dreams, SCP, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque} are all town so the wagons on them suck.

She also kept Meg hovering around the middle of her reads lists. To me this looks much more like someone trying to cover for a partner without outright defending them (especially the 'I think their posts look really townie but I don't know if I should really trust them' thing) in 804.

So I think Meg is the better wagon here.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

[cassowary]

nvm i am a fool

UNVOTE:

[cassowary]

i still don't think csf and mastina are partners tho

[cassowary]

Side note: I'm not 100% sure I see why everyone is wagoning CSF, tbh.

i don't think everyone was?
u doing csf-defense after the wagon dies is busyworky.

am I insane or was csf not still the leading wagon at the time I made that post

[cassowary]

agree w. bnuuy, i think scum SoD would look a lot more obviously suspicious than this, this just seems like confused townie SoD

[cassowary]

I think I'm gonna vote Menalque -- I feel pretty strongly CSF isn't mafia due to their interactions w/ mastina, so if CSF is wolf Menalque also has to be lying. Menalque hasn't been contributing a lot lately and their weird behavior around slacking but not wanting to replace out could be scum-motivated. Plus if menalque

does

flip wolf it would definitely help move my opinion on CSF.

VOTE: Menalque

[cassowary]

I’d rather have people over post than under post.

I wouldn't

----

Idk I think I still like menalque best for my vote right now. I think SoD is usually a bit more of a chaos demon as scum, where he mostly just seems confused here, plus the way he claimed D1 makes me inclined to believe him, but he's definitely also hard-to-read dead weight right now so I don't really have a problem with people voting him out

[cassowary]

hi math blade, we have actually played together once before!

I would be ok with Klick or Dunn elim as well (have been kinda low-grade scumreading klick all game and i think i still find dunn suspicious as well*) but I think I still prefer Menalque right now. Would like to see a vote count though, I think Dunn is actually the leading wagon at this point & would like to know what the count is at before I move my vote

* though, I kinda want to go back and look through dunn's iso again tbh, I don't think I've done that since we got these new flips

I myself think that cass has partnered interactions with enchant+mastina and nero(mainly his predecessor)+mena have partnered interactions with catboi.

I kinda see where you're coming from with enchant thing (even though I stand by what I said, your argument was bad), but what partnered interactions do I have with mastina? afaict the only post i even made about mastina while she was alive was #3121

[cassowary]

menalque/catboi wallpost

even granting menalque's attitude towards the game as NAI, I think menalque/catboi interactions d1 make a lot of sense if menalque is partnered with catboi and sees partner-catboi getting pushed

hard

i think the majority of menalque's posts d1 might have been catboi related even early on before it became a federal freaking issue

Spoiler: menalque on catboi d1

@Menalque - Do you think there's a chance you're pocketed by Catboi? I went back and checked some things, and their first post in the game was an RVS vote towards you.

The fact you are town reading them so strongly for reasons I'm not sure why, not that I'm confident in Catboi scum by any means, but their first post acknowledged you, which is a direct way to interact with another player, and that can easily lend to trust for being acknowledged.

uh, maybe, but I guess it's more -- a lot of people seem to kinda want catboi dead when while he hasn't had that much (bar one thing) that stood out as that towny to me, he also hasn't been scummy and I don't see the awkwardness in the early game that others are talking about. I also think town!catboi is a high priority lim for scum, so I can see both scum teams + potentially malefactor all playing into catboi paranoia to try and increase the odds of getting said mislim

the thing I really liked and I guess the main reason that I think catboi is town based on his own posting is 809 which I could jive with once I read back through malc's posting and paired it with what catboi is saying. having now talked to malc more on my own, and also feeling better about town there, I in turn feel good about catboi getting there before me and helping me to see it too

early on there's this post where menalque says catboi hasn't done anything super towny but then gives a bunch of reasons catboi shouldn't be eliminated

there's also a lot of 'just say no to catboi vote' campaigning:

Catboi > Nashville

Gonna have to give you the big ole wrong answer gameshow buzzer on the first one, but I guess I’ll listen on Nashville

So either catboi or wallflower is the correct elim for today.

Am I gonna have to go back to using the big red “X”s instead of saying buzzer noise

also asking people 'why are you voting catboi':\

I'm at about 18% for Catboi right now.

y

Hey tictac, why are you voting catboi anyway?

this early bit also pings me slightly:

Every day that goes by without Catboi trying to kill Mena I become more convinced they are on the same team

is this a semi-serious post or?

now I have you here, would you mind answering the previous question about why you would expect catboi/me to be trying to kill each other?

also a few posts where menalque is like 'voting catboi is pointless and won't go through so we might as well vote somewhere else right guys' (#964, #1485)

there's a lot of catboi in menalque's d1 iso, this is not nearly all of it. i buy a lack of motivation coming from town menalque, given that doing this kind of thing as town and then seeing catboi flip scum would be extremely demoralizing, but i could definitely also see a lack of motivation coming from a scum menalque who chainsaw-defended catboi hard early on to avert an elimination but lost him anyway despite all his efforts and then looked extremely suspicious due to it

---

on the flipside, catboi's early interactions with menalque are mostly fluff with a few times where catboi answers a question from menalque, but catboi hardly ever actually talks about his thoughts

on

menalque himself

Spoiler: catboi menalque fluff

And to be honest, I didn't really want to bring this up in-game but I kind of think he has a grudge against me or something. Don't get it, I don't have anything against him.

Just my two cents catboi, but I don’t think norwee carries grudges against anyone really

I think if he did then he 1000% would have against me when we first started playing together but he never has

lol there was a time pooky tilted him out of a game on an alt

You’re both pretty and intelligent

nya~

Catboi and StD: I am entrusting custodianship of the bnuuy wagon to you both in my absence

Do not allow a certain F. L. Avourleaf to unrail it in my absence

I will try but I actually have to leave work pretty soon and I have a long drive and Enchant is in the game

but then catboi lists menalque as one of his highest townreads:

Spoiler: catboi menalque tr

well done what other scum reads do you have

i believe we can find something we agree on

We scumread Menalque
We are suspicious of Malcolm and catboi
We are less suspicious of Klick and tictac and haven't given them a strong look over but have acknowledged them

We were suspicious of Monkeyman and Sword of Ducks at one point and need to think over it again

Boys you gotta get some better scumreads because I'm town, Menalque is very likely town, and I think Malcolm is too

Okay, I'm caught up. Let's do this thing:

Town reads:

Sword of Ducks (de facto Innocent Child)
Menalque
Well Done
MalcolmTucker
butterchurn
Save The Dragons
mastina
MonkeyMan576 (little less confident on this one than the others but only because I haven't been paying as much attention to him lately)

snip (doesn't mention menalque here)

u know what can we just kill enchant

i feel like thats the least headache wagon that actually flips scum and is easy to objectively see.


i dont have the wherewithal to fight off rebuttals for things that I may have misattributed as scum behavior that is NAI but my case is overall correct kind of thing and catboi will leave a bread trail to scum him over the course of the game anyways and will never endgame here.

mena or enchant are the 2 most obvious objectively I feel and I hope others can agree on that.

I would gladly compromise on enchant but think you're out of your mind on menalque

people are going to start shrieking that you're going after LHF though

he finally gives an answer for why he TRs menalque here:

u know what can we just kill enchant

i feel like thats the least headache wagon that actually flips scum and is easy to objectively see.


i dont have the wherewithal to fight off rebuttals for things that I may have misattributed as scum behavior that is NAI but my case is overall correct kind of thing and catboi will leave a bread trail to scum him over the course of the game anyways and will never endgame here.

mena or enchant are the 2 most obvious objectively I feel and I hope others can agree on that.

I would gladly compromise on enchant but think you're out of your mind on menalque

people are going to start shrieking that you're going after LHF though

Ok. Describe why Mena is town here then - because the lack of an edge is blatant and theyre waffly as fuck.

I don't think him "playing with an edge" is a requirement for his towngame based n recent experience, he has good energy, read his posts and mostly go "hm yeah he's analysing the game and trying to figure things out", his reads are moving around. I mean that's a bullshit answer that ultimately boils down to "vibes" but given he spent most of PYP being a limp noodle (sorry) in general I think his enthusiasm for being town here is clear and the fact that he's maintaining his engagement even with the thread picking up town-indicative for him.

Where do you see him being "waffly"?

but this alone doesn't nearly justify such a high town read on menalque imo, the real reason is either that they're partners or that catboi was trying to pocket a townie menalque

----

they also both voted each other rvs which, while that's functionally meaningless, i think it's interesting they were kind of buddied up from the beginning and never really seemed to reevaluate even though menalque theoretically didn't really trust catboi early on

----

my only concern here is that this set of interactions could also be coming from scum catboi pocketing menalque. the way it was mostly a one-sided defense until later in the game when menalque started getting suspicion for defending catboi and then catboi defended menalque could be W/W or it could be catboi trying to save menalque as someone who would defend him to the death.

menalque's posts after d1 (#6647, #6669, #7561) kind of seem to give that impression (that catboi pocketed him hard). and menalque cites 'slot being compromised' as a reason he doesn't want to replace out which is valid. but i'm just not sure i see this level of defense coming from just a pocketed menalque d1. that seems kinda nuts to me, it looks much more like a chainsaw defense type thing. i think i kinda agree on some level that the slot is compromised and it's best to just resolve it so speculation isn't floating around, because ngl it does look pretty suspicious.

plus, right now i am TRing CSF, but that's partly based on menalque saying CSF friendly neighbor'd him as non-wolf. if menalque flips town that gives credence to CSF as not-wolf, vs if menalque flips wolf that puts CSF back into contention as a potential wolf partner. so it helps clarify the gamestate there, as well.

i don't think there's as clear cut a case on dunn or klick. i don't think resolving dunn's slot is as helpful as menalque's would be. klick has been on the table as a suspicion all game from a lot of people, but again i don't think it's as clear-cut. i think menalque is the best vote.

sorry if you're town, menalque. but i think you get it too.

[cassowary]

klick's posts read to me like they're trying to come up with a reason not to listen to me instead of voting for obvious choice menalque

[cassowary]

Cass this is super wrong in so many ways but I can see how someone could think it if, and I really don’t mean to be insulting here because I think a lot of people look at the game this way, myself included, a lot of the time, but anyway, if they have a very surface level view of what’s going on and don’t think that I would be able to foresee that (1) catboi dying is quite likely and (2) how I’m liable to look after that and (3) that even if I’m scum, I’ve been limmed enough times as town for bad optics that I would know that just avoiding said bad optics by bussing is a MUCH easier path

i mean, i just don't believe you - it's not that i think you defended catboi just because you were partners or whatever, but i don't buy this. 'i would have known acting this way would look suspicious so i wouldn't have done it that way if i were scum' is just WIFOM - maybe you are scum and knew this and intended on taking refuge in audacity and using this defense if catboi died! who knows

If I wanted to make up a reason I'd write a couple of wallposts with too many words about my reads to fake depth, all conveniently pointing towards the goal of what I want to happen

"i haven't looked at the catboi/menalque interactions very much"

"ok here are a bunch of them, there are a lot, here is what i think about it"

"wow way to post way too many words to fake depth, isn't this contrived"

[cassowary]

i wish i was mafia this game would probably be a lot more fun

[cassowary]

slightly-out-of-it late-night posting whee

Nah Dunn is lock mafia probably. Or at minimum Didn’t want to be checked

isn't scum dunn likely wolf? why would mafia-dunn claim wolf-miller? that seems weird, to me.

that said given we already had another hirsute flip and they had another role attached, i don't really buy that dunn is just vanilla hirsute (unless dunn wants to claim another attached role?)

i mean, having two hirsute already seems kinda weird to me on its own tbh - it seems likely to me that dunn is wolf, unless i am missing something obvious (which is possible)

i think dunn is at e-2 now? right? i would vote dunn but i don't really trust my counting skills at 1 am. i will wait for a vote count and vote dunn tomorrow morning unless someone else puts him to e-1 i think since my pet wagon isn't going anywhere :<

anyway, good night.

[cassowary]

if you'd vote Dunn why do you care how many votes are on him? lol

I didn't want to accidentally hammer him before people were done with the day and I was worried I missed a vote when reading through? how is this confusing lmao

VOTE: Dunn

[cassowary]

any reads or thoughts on this game?

the town is bleeding holy shit

Why are you not giving any reads this game?

Listen, I need to do my homework, I'll be back in a few hours.

My dude if you have been scum this whole time I will be very disappointed. Mostly in myself.

VOTE: menalque

pedit:

Ok.

This makes no sense but I'll try and understand later. For now, I'm ok with follow the cop.

~Titus

Not a cop.

Don’t have a guilty on Mastina

Wolves shot FL and he lived. << This is what I have

if that's all you have, where are you pulling the rest of your thoughts from? (eg klick)

or am i misreading and you have some other info as well. it's ok if you don't want to answer this i guess i'm just confused

[cassowary]

What I am saying will be confirmed

In that case I don't think it's a crime to want to wait for confirmation before going along with it

My dude if you have been scum this whole time I will be very disappointed. Mostly in myself.

My dude, I told you - and everyone day 1 - that I had nothing to hide.

If I still get voted put I'll be very disappointed in all of you.

Do... you really not see why people might find your actions this game suspicious?

Honestly, this response looks pretty bad to me. I get that you're busy but surely you must have one single solitary thought on literally anything that's happened in the game?

VOTE: Sword of Ducks

[cassowary]

How many votes am I at right now. Should I claim?

[cassowary]

i actually don't think my claim will remotely help exonerate me but ehh it's ok

sorry I've played terribly this game lmao

[cassowary]

ah, math, you are remembering to take into account that each scum team can only kill 2/3 nights, right?

[cassowary]

cleric is doctor but for wolves

[cassowary]

i actually don't think my claim will remotely help exonerate me but ehh it's ok

sorry I've played terribly this game lmao

Yes you should.

I missed this.

~Titus

this is really stupid, but i'm actually backup cleric

i didn't do a breadcrumb because i am a fool, so i will accept my fate.

i'm functionally VT until the cleric dies, which is math, I guess

[cassowary]

my role flavor name is "acolyte", if that helps.

[cassowary]

They've done less than SoD as well.

You can't possibly think this is true lmao

[cassowary]

i... what am I supposed to do

I think I've been fairly forthcoming about my thoughts on this game.

I don't post that often, but I try to give substantive thoughts when I do.

I still think Menalque is my preferred elimination for today but everyone seems to want to pick literally anyone else for reasons I do not understand despite the fact we all seem to agree he is suspicious.

I also am rapidly souring on SoD, which is where my vote is right now.

I have no additional information, I am not part of any secret neighborhood and I have a role that renders me functionally vanilla

I don't really know what you're expecting to see here

[cassowary]

Comments on FL Math me tictac what's going on with the kills asking questions provoking reactions. Something so I can feel what you're feeling and get an idea as to your agenda

I still think I buy townie FL over 'scum FL killed his partner,' it... seems pretty unlikely to me that he'd get his team to sign off on that plan, especially given the factional kill is gated in this game, so I am having trouble envisioning the utility of killing a teammate for cred over just

not

doing a factional kill that night. But, maybe this kind of play is more common in MS meta? Is that true? I am not sure why people are giving so much weight to what seems to me to be a relatively marginal theory.

I think it's very unlikely Math is scum? But I don't think I actually trust his reads; he is likely operating on information that is more incomplete than he thinks it is, unless he is privy to some extra info that will be revealed when he dies (as he keeps hinting). But in that case it might be best to wait for him to die?

I've been kind of flip-flopping on you all game, and I'm still not totally sure where I stand on you. Not really a fan of the way you've been pushing me today -- not

that

you're pushing me, but

how

. It feels a little bit like you know your case isn't actually as strong as you are presenting it to be, and you are trying to make up for it in volume. But of course, that doesn't really mean much coming from me, the person you are pushing :p

tictac could be scum for sure, my only thing is their play doesn't feel super opportunistic, they feel like they are thinking through and coming up with original thoughts on the game state, which gives me pause.

I don't think I would prefer to vote any of these 4 today, there are better candidates. I don't feel particularly strongly that any of you four are burning with suspicion.

I'm sorry that I haven't had as much time to devote to this game as I would have liked. I have been trying my best to check in and ask people questions / provoke reactions when I can, and you are welcome to check my ISO and compare it to SoD's if you need a refresher on our respective behavior this game. I know I might not have been as engaged with the game as some players have been, but to be completely honest this just isn't really a super high priority in my life and I have other things going on, especially on weekends. And I have been busier than my usual during this game especially. Whoops! It happens.

I need to go to sleep now. I have been awake for about 36 hours straight for basically no reason, so apologies if the things I said here kind of make no sense.

[cassowary]

Math seems to be tying himself into knots a bit trying to construct a scenario where FL

could still possibly

be mafia, but seems to be kind of forgetting FL could just be town

[cassowary]

Well ok. That's an important thing Meg said.

Your claim isn't the problem Math. It's Cass being a full claim.

It’s not.

I can’t explain without outing my gate.

Trust me when if anything Cass is almost VT.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen “backup x role” inherit a gate, in fact that is against the normal policy where a full vig can inherit a 1-shot vig (I think,my brain is fried from schoolwork)

I feel like I should say, my role PM doesn't mention any gate, it just says, to paraphrase, when "a" cleric dies, I gain the ability to protect one person from wolf attacks each night. I did think this wording was a little weird.

how is cass outted?

I'm not lmao

N1 Klick
N2 No action
N3 Mathblade

What’s even more sus is N1 Klick.

Lmao

Who doesn’t bodyguard FL claimed vig?

Why does scum bodyguard Meg claim no action when that just makes her look more suspicious?

Also FL didn't claim vig d1 except in his neighborhood n1 iirc

Math seems to be tying himself into knots a bit trying to construct a scenario where FL

could still possibly

be mafia, but seems to be kind of forgetting FL could just be town

the thing is he was doing it in reverse before
so like, there's no narrative cohesiveness to what he's doing if he's scum

yeah I don't think he's scum just tunnelled

[cassowary]

For posterity, at this point my scumreads are menalque, keeper, klick, bnuuy, and one of {sod/nero/tictac}

[cassowary]

y r u scum reading me, Cass?

mostly poe, i'm not super sure about the last slot ngl, I don't think you're super actively suspicious other than being one of a weirdly high number of claimed VTs

[cassowary]

y not have keeper glad SOD? Dude's not even playing

Cass is near lockscum

okay i know i haven't been the

most

helpful slot this game but this is just silly

[cassowary]

VOTE: the keeper

[cassowary]

VOTE: the keeper

y?

I think your description that 4 vts is high is ??? Why do you consider yourself not that helpful?

I guess it's not high but imo it's a weird number for a role madness game, i am used to seeing games with less or more, but also this setup is weird so who knows

In terms of not being helpful, I guess I just haven't felt like I've ever really had a chance to sink my teeth into this game, and I've kind of let myself get pressured into making plays I didn't necessarily believe in. It's also true that this game's vibe has been pretty rancid a lot of the time, and I think that's been a contributing factor. I feel like this game may have demanded I be a bit more assertive, and I'm not sure I rose to the challenge there.

Also I wish I'd crumb'd my role at the beginning, not doing that was just objectively dumb. In fairness it's not nearly as common a practice on our homesite.

[cassowary]

It seems like the only arguments Cass is scum is long since debunked VCA and “the claim” but Cass was pushed before the claim

So this wagon is absolutely scum driven to avoid sorting in Klick/FL.

Hey, that's unfair. You're forgetting I'm also suspicious for defending CSF, who's obviously my scum buddy, and for telling SCP that they made a garbage argument in favor of voting someone who later turned out to be scum. As well as a host of other sketchy reasons, too!

You wanna know what I think? You guys are all too clever for your own good. I think people want to show off how smart they are and 'catch out sneaky scum' so they overlook obvious candidates in favor of voting for someone based on a weird sideways case. If you end up killing me today and this leads to the fourth miselim in a row, please consider that this strategy may not be paying off very well for you! I'm not saying this to make myself look townie or whatever -- I'm pretty sure I'm going to die -- this is just a genuine plea to alter your strategy before it loses us the game. You guys are not as smart as you think you are. Please don't kill me and then let Menalque live to the end of the game. I mean, come on.

[cassowary]

Sorry. Maybe I'm just a bit frustrated. I am getting the feeling people don't want to do things that are 'too obvious'. Like people will go 'okay, this person is obviously scum, let's hunt for others' and then forget about the first person

[cassowary]

I would be happy to do Keeper, Menalque, or maybe Klick today. My SoD vote was mostly to provoke a reaction -- I'm not

happy

with the reaction I got, but i don't think it looks particularly scummy for SoD.

[cassowary]

what if nashville is the mafia vanilla cop to klick's wolf gunsmith

[cassowary]

yeah SoD i have no idea what you're referring to with that

[cassowary]

Ohh yeah, that makes sense, SoD has seen that before (game I played with him where he was town was a no-power-roles game where a mafia member became highly townread early on and led the town to self-destruct)

[cassowary]

see you next prod dodge

someone ping me in three hours

I'll come running

[cassowary]

see you next prod dodge

someone ping me in three hours

I'll come running

very funny.

[cassowary]

ngl, I liked Cass' last post. That

AtE

.

There Is A Possibility You Are Wrong !

what if catboi is town

who do you think is scum then

i stone cold do not get why you are so deeply convinced of this random day 1 read that you decided on like 150 pages ago, so much so that you're willing to blow up the entire game to this degree. it doesn't make any sense to me. you are in too deep, man. you are convinced catboi is scum and seeing evidence of it everywhere but for those of us who are not you it doesn't look as damning because we aren't reading things with the same assumptions as you. it doesn't mean everyone who disagrees is intentionally trying to undermine you, and acting like it does is not helping you make your case. i'm not even defending catboi. he could very well be scum idfk. but you have killed any chance i had of voting for him today.

has always made me worry that this was a wolf. I guess it's not impossible that she was just wrong town but could be a wolf buddy.

I was just mad at FL for hyper-posting to the extent he did to push catboi. I didn't even necessarily TR catboi at the time. I think you subbed in after most of it had happened but things got pretty weird d1

[cassowary]

Cass this is super wrong in so many ways but I can see how someone could think it if, and I really don’t mean to be insulting here because I think a lot of people look at the game this way, myself included, a lot of the time, but anyway, if they have a very surface level view of what’s going on and don’t think that I would be able to foresee that (1) catboi dying is quite likely and (2) how I’m liable to look after that and (3) that even if I’m scum, I’ve been limmed enough times as town for bad optics that I would know that just avoiding said bad optics by bussing is a MUCH easier path

i mean, i just don't believe you - it's not that i think you defended catboi just because you were partners or whatever, but i don't buy this. 'i would have known acting this way would look suspicious so i wouldn't have done it that way if i were scum' is just WIFOM - maybe you are scum and knew this and intended on taking refuge in audacity and using this defense if catboi died! who knows

[snip]

saying "I just don't believe you" is incredibly unconvincing when there are numerous games (off the top of my head in like 2 seconds -- Ktane, Secrets of the Anuket Topaz, but I could find more/examples where it wasn't directly something that happened to me) of me or others being limmed for defending scum while being town

to say I wouldn't do that if I were scum is not "just WIFOM"

to believe it you need to believe that either:
(1) I am aware of how I look to the thread and am not taking actions to try and affect that as scum
or
(2) that I am unaware of how I look and how my actions are likely to make me look

I think it is unconvincing that you believe either of these things. It is implausible to believe that I, as scum, choose to deliberately look bad, because that would be close to me simply throwing. It is slightly more plausible, but still very much not-plausible-when-it-comes-down-to-it to think I am not aware of how I'm going to look when, as mentioned above, I've been mislimmed as town for defending scum multiple times

if you don't think I'm scum for being partners with catboi, then I have no idea why you think I'm scum at all, at least not vs any other given slot that's been largely inactive this game, and given your own lack of content throughout (whereas mine has only been since I was ass backward D1) I would expect town!you to have some understanding of the "not producing =/= scum" concept

Or is this

just what you want me to think?

;D

It is wifom. Saying "but scum would know that would look suspicious so they wouldn't do it" is like, textbook wifom. My only possible response is "but scum you could know that and use this as a defense" and around and around it goes...

Plus if the alternative as you imply here is that

I'm

scum then I really do have no choice but to SR you I think? Honestly if you are town and the wolves are somewhere really weird then better to know that than to have you still floating around as a possibility. You said it yourself, the slot is compromised.

[cassowary]

Sword of Ducks

cassowary

The Keeper
bnuuy

Menalque

These are the lims I could do. Italics are deadline avoid no elimination. Bold is favorite.

I'm willing to hammer Menalque if you get a wagon there.

VOTE: Menalque

[cassowary]

If Math flips wolf, power flip Cass.

Dunno who their maf partner would be if they flipped Maf.

If town, their flip should give a lot of info

Honestly, his flip gives like no info if he's town but he's a gigantic barrier to getting reads and wagons going.

Then I feel like this means he's not the best person to kill today -- there are people who will give much more info if they flip town. Now seems like a terrible time to eliminate someone for this reason??

Seriously though math i think you're town (unless someone else is a cleric and lying about it! which i suppose is possible) but i think the FL thing is not as clear cut as you think it is

I could do klick though, sure, I think there is a good chance they are a wolf, they have been low key suspicious all game and have been hard defending menalque and pushing me instead which I'm not the biggest fan of. Even if Menalque is town I still feel like Klick is likely wolf

VOTE: klick

Pedit:

What I'm left wondering, is if the 2 in 3 kill applies to any 3 consecutive nights (meaning max 2 chained kills), each set of 3 consecutive nights (1,2,3 - 4,5,6) or overall (Mean in theory scum can no kill 2 or 3 nights in a row and then kill for 4 running.)

I believe Cephrir confirmed it's the second one (each set of 3 consecutive nights) which does mean the kill numbers are a little weird, but I don't think something like scum hitting the same target is as out of the question as Math seems to think it is

[cassowary]

If I am elimmed listen to StD and Nero

Elim Fl/Klick

I will be afk most of the weekend

I feel like there are too many unknowns here to be making reads or pushing lims based on mech like this.

Like if your no result were because of a rb like mastina, how would it benefit us to lim Klick?

Also missing NKs could just be explained by scum shooting the same person or an unclaimed rb. I feel like the simplest explanation is that FL is town because he shot both Mafia and wolf.

This

[cassowary]

holy shit math. You know he's too busy to play.

Still gotta try as rules say he has to provide content.

A single read isn’t too much.

Fine.

VOTE: MathBlade

Read this.

Okay but who do you think is scum and who do you think is town.

[cassowary]

my mind is a little boggled as to why no one wants SOD dead? Am I just wrong and scum knows it or is he scum and that's why I can't get any traction? Like, idk if he's town then he just needs to go to the newbie queue. Although he prob should have never been allowed to play.

is2g he's usually a little bit like this but he usually plays the game more, idk what is up with him this game. Even as scum he usually engages with the substance of what's going on more than he has this game. He probably is just legit busy but in that case I'm not sure why he hasn't replaced out ;-;

[cassowary]

my mind is a little boggled as to why no one wants SOD dead? Am I just wrong and scum knows it or is he scum and that's why I can't get any traction? Like, idk if he's town then he just needs to go to the newbie queue. Although he prob should have never been allowed to play.

is2g he's usually a little bit like this but he usually plays the game more, idk what is up with him this game. Even as scum he usually engages with the substance of what's going on more than he has this game. He probably is just legit busy but in that case I'm not sure why he hasn't replaced out ;-;

Mafia knows I'm an easy mislim. I'm not dead yet because they know the town will kill me given enough time.

Okay?? And?? Are you going to make any use of the fact you're still alive, or are you going to just keep refusing to post anything about your thoughts on the game?

[cassowary]

Ducks, you might be still stuck in your mindset from the last game we played. But your goal in this game is not just to survive like it was when you were SK. It's to help your team by voicing your opinions and responding to other people's thoughts and trying to help everyone reach the correct decision (or if you're scum, it's to help everyone reach the

wrong

decision by posting fake thoughts.)

I don't really care whether you're still alive because you're as easy miselimination or because you're actual scum; it's bad play either way -- if you're town, tempting a miselimination is bad play since it actively hurts your team, and if you're scum it's not super helpful to your team either since everyone thinks it looks sketchy as heck. And I know you're not the malefactor, because the malefactor was butterchurn! So... what is up

[cassowary]

I don't think you're scum though FL, I haven't voted you at all today. Math is wrong, I just think you're both town

[cassowary]

The only time I voted you I'm pretty sure was at the very beginning of d2

[cassowary]

Sword, we on the Cass wagon want Mathblade just like you, can you join us on Cass since you're also anti-Math?

Math is pushing Menalque, Klick, Me, and Titus, and we're 4 on Cass.

It's unfortunate, but Mathblade has the "Policy Fade" defense because people will think he's getting voted because of policy, so by flipping Cass, it can incriminate Math harder, and theyre doing everything they can to stop it.

Math would know that if Cass ended up flipping town, then the entire wagon could be seen as scummy, with the 4 of us taking the main heat.

This is a really excellent theory the only problem with which is that I'm actually going to flip town and this whole plan is going to go out the window

As I said I'm pretty sure I'm gonna die today, but I'm happy to do it if it means maybe we can reconsider the strategy that has led to us going 0 for 4 with eliminations so far

[cassowary]

Oh cool I think I'm at E-1

[cassowary]

Final thoughts.

Bear in mind I've been wrong about basically everything this game (sorry about that) so maybe take these with a grain of salt:

Probably town:
Flavor Leaf -- Finding it hard to see a world where FL is scum. I'm not really qualified to judge whether he would pull such a strange gambit, so I'll leave that up to you guys to decide.
MathBlade -- Town but wrong. Unless there's no cleric in the game or someone else is cleric, I trust him mechanically. I think Math/FL is just an incredibly tedious TvT.
Cat Scratch Fever -- Isn't wolf, and mastina's interactions with her make me very skeptical she's mafia. See my earlier post.
Save The Dragons -- Haven't really gotten any suspicious vibes from them this game, seems fairly interested in solving even if they are a bit disengaged
Sword of Ducks -- Probably town but useless. SoD please play the game.
Nero Cain -- probably not scum, I liked his response to my 'call-out' post, felt genuinely like a townie who was kind of offended I said town had been playing badly this game

Could go either way:
bnuuy -- mmmmmmmmm Haven't gotten that many vibes from them either way. Have been getting minor pings from them all game but they wouldn't be my first choice as elimination, I think there are better candidates at the moment who are still alive.
tictac -- As I said earlier, I could see them being lurky scum, but I'm given pause by the fact that their reads on things seem relatively independent and not teamed up with people, and they seem to be giving their genuine reads on the game. Then again this is multiball so who knows.
MegAzumarill -- Might be wolf, but otoh it would be weird if the town protectives could only counter wolf and not mafia. So Meg, being the only claimed protective that can counter mafia (afaict, unless math has something he's not telling us?), might actually be legit.

Oh my god, please flip at least one of these people, seriously:
Nashville Dreams -- Flipping Nashville would clear up the game state significantly and I think there's a solid chance they are mafia. Wouldn't be my first choice but not a huge fan of the way they've been trying to manipulate the vote today.
Menalque -- I guess there's a chance Menalque is town, my reads have been pretty garbage all game, but I stand by that I think the slot is compromised and he would be a better elimination than most of the choices discussed today. See my wall post.
Klick -- Not a fan of the way they have been hard defending Menalque and pushing me instead. I think there's a very high likelihood Klick is a wolf.
The Keeper -- I dunno I just got a bad feeling about them. Especially after the mass claim. I think they are probably scum gladiator.

Overall Thoughts: There is too much ego in this game. Stop trying to prove how clever you are and vote out the obviously suspicious people. This applies to me as well, I've let myself get dragged into these weird things way too much this game.

Final Rating: D Minus

Okay, feel free to hammer me now

[cassowary]

Oh what do you know

[cassowary]

Okay good luck guys wish you the best! You can do it, I believe in you, just remember to play dumber

[cassowary]

Pretty sure SoD already hammered me unless I miscounted

[cassowary]

I'm freeee

[cassowary]

Oh wait I might still be e-1. I think StD moved their vote back to klick. Shoot. Someone come free me from this mortal coil

[cassowary]

Uh, probably Menalque or Keeper ngl

[cassowary]

Probably Menalque, I'm not as sure of my read there as I was before but I still think that's my favorite choice

[cassowary]

[cassowary]

So what if you reached the age of reason
Only to find there was no reprieve
Would you still be a man for all seasons?
Or would you just disbelieve?
We measure our gains out in luck and coincidence
Lanterns to turn back the night
And put our defeats down to chance or experience
And try once again for the light
Some wait for the waters of fortune to cover them
Some just see the tides of ill chance rushing over them
Some call on Jehovah, some cry out to Allah
Some wait for the boats that still row to Valhallah
Well, you try to accept what the fates are unfolding
While some say they're sure where the blame should be falling
You look round for maybe a chance of forestalling
But too soon, it's over and done
And the man for all seasons is lost behind the sun

[cassowary]

Oh hey we won! Good job everyone