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Originally at work I read the first three pages of the game or so, to see you having given up on the battle with StD.
My thought at the time was, "Norwee
probably
town for this, but I'd have locktowned Norwee if Norwee kept it up instead of giving it up" since I saw a
potential
scum motivation in having stopped whereas keeping it up was something I thought would be just town.
So originally when I read the first few pages offline at work circa six hours ago or so? It wasn't.
And then I logged in to play the game for real and was like. "Wait. Norwee's
actually
town-town." From your opener. Like, I was skimming your posts offline and thought your battle with StD was townish but not conftown since you gave it up...but when I read your opener instead of skimming it, it just was town?
I don't know how else to say it; it's literally just, "gut". Like. I saw your opener and it was like. "Norwee's just town here".
I know it'll trigger you but unironically it's the soulread again. Like, when I read your lyric war with StD I legit was thinking, "this looks town, but Norwee stopping it could be an indicator that Norwee is scum on one of the factions, but it's still like 80:20 town:scum and Norwee is definitely being protown even in that 20%", but then the moment I logged in to post, while I had the above in mind, your first post instantly erased the 20% for me and shot it up to 100% because it was just like. "Wait Norwee's just town, why was Norwee 'town?' to me when I was skimming offline???".
I admit--there's
paranoia
so it's not a
true
100%. It's not a 100% on the 100%. You
did
make me sincerely believe you were town while you were an arsonist, and this
is
explicitly a multiball game where scum can scumhunt and look town even when being scum. But it's like...it's exactly that, paranoia. I don't feel it's a justified fear. So it's 95% on the 100%.
Post
Post #433 (isolation #6) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:49 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 431, NorwegianboyEE wrote:You’re right, it did kinda trigger me.
Dress it up all you want, it’s still literally what you did last game. -_-
I'M SORRY BUT WHEN I'M TOWN I CAN'T MAKE UP A READ AND BULLSHIT IT; IT'S THE READ I ACTUALLY HAVE AND IT IS AGAINST MY MAFIA PHILOSOPHY TO LIE ABOUT READS AS TOWN SO I CAN'T PRETEND IT'S A WEAKER TOWNREAD WHEN IT'S ACTUALLY JUST THAT STRONG INSTANTLY
Has the perfect storm of Titus town things;
1: It's D1, I can afford to call her town because statistically speaking even in a multiball game with more scum than normal there's still more town than not so I'll be right more often than I'm wrong, and Titus is someone who, if I am not actually scumreading her, I don't really want to push on D1 so I'll just townread her on principle
2: People are calling Titus scum, which is an indicator that she's not
3: She's got the unique combination of solving, but not solving TOO much, and having some insights but nothing TOO insightful, and having moonlogic but not TOO much moonlogic
4: She's in a hydra and tbh this feels like Titus-town-hydra to me
Ain't got a care in the world, but got plenty of beer
Ain't got no money in my pocket, but I'm already here
And now the dudes are linin' up 'cause they hear we got swagger
But we kick 'em to the curb unless they look like Mick Jagger
also ouch my eyes mafiasilver
Oh hey looks like I don't need to justify townreading Titus since she shares the hydra with Mala and Mala here just hard-spewed the hydra as town. <3
NorwegianboyEE
Save The Dragons
Nashville Dreams (Titus & Malakittens)
, too--
Everything which can go wrong for me is, pretty much.
Spoiler: Venting
I'm barely sweating at all even when hydrated, leading to my skin being visibly warm (sometimes hot) to the touch even though internally I'm a normal temperature (not feverish). (I do have a doctor appointment for it but not until May 12th.)
I've been struggling more with my workouts being both more out of breath and more "ow that hurt" after them in spite of working out the exact same amount.
A concern of mine is that some of the worst dry spots are also 'coincidentally' brown spots on my skin. (Yaknow. The spots that you got from spending too much time in the sun? The spots that I was told that when I was older could potentially develop into a cancer risk? Well I'm older now, so...)
So physically, I'm a mess, mentally...
I had radio silence from my psychiatrist. The psychiatrist has been shit in multiple ways from deadnaming me repeatedly, changing my appointment type without informing me, and then at our last appointment giving me an invalid room code so I literally couldn't show up and I told them before the appointment it was an invalid room code but have received nothing but radio silence.
This, in spite of the fact that I need those meds.
So I have been struggling to get replacement care. I tried through the Everett Clinic where all my other care is and after jumping through a few hoops, I ultimately got told today that they are at capacity and cannot take new patients, but would offer me a referral service--the very same referral service that led me to
my current psychiatrist who I was contacting them looking to replace
.
Anxiety has been at like 9/10 lately, mentally I've been a complete mess, spiraling, etc., and I imagine that my issues are feeding into each other. My mental health is probably affecting my body; my body is probably affecting my mental health. The issues I'm having probably wouldn't disappear if they were separate, but having both almost assuredly makes both at the same time worse than they'd be individually.
I should be going to bed at or before 10:30 so I've only got about an hour of free time; let's see if I can catch up here in that time. (Sorry if I end up only doing like half tho.)
In post 460, Well Done wrote:We suspect that you are one of the 9 anti-town players in this game.
What makes you say there's 9 anti-town?
Titus
For the record I 200% believe this to be a real townslip so like. Every time someone suspects the slot I'm going to point to this post and say, "no, they're hardspewed town".
In post 595, Well Done wrote:My belief is that in general mastina does not fake claim, regardless of alignment, except for in extreme circumstances. They claimed beloved princess? That's their real role. Now figure out their alignment. We are against eliminating the beloved princess.
Due to a CERTAIN rule change that I VEHEMENTLY disagree with, I cannot really respond to this without getting banned as I am probably already dangerously close but fucked if I know where the line on that rule is precisely, it's a fucking bullshit rule change and the sheer ambiguity present in how fucking hard it is to know where the line is in what I can and can't say is proof of why it's a shitty ass rule which yes, does in fact punish neurodivergent folk on mafiascum (more on that below), so let's just say that I am attempting to remain within the rule and if I am not actually within the rule, that's proof of why the rule is so bullshit because this is literally
That said, without linking to MD (where I can probably track down other MD posts beyond/before the rule change if I cared to for the record), and in trying to fit to the spirit of the rule in spite of how fucking bullshit the rule is, let me attempt to word this in a way that is within the rule and is entirely 100% specific to this game:
There is a reason in
this game
that I would not fakeclaim as scum.
What reason is that?
It's called "I have an anxiety disorder".
Now, if you want to disbelieve me on the above,
One, you're an asshole, because you should never fucking disbelieve someone when they say they have a disorder like that, and two, I can pretty damn easily prove that I do in fact have an anxiety disorder.
But since I am going to
assume
you are not an asshole, I am going to assume you do in fact believe me when I say I have a pretty damn bad/severe anxiety disorder.
So...What does that mean?
Well let me tell you what it means.
It means I am neurotic and borderline paranoid.
So what does that mean in a mafia game precisely?
Well let me give you some background on what anxiety does to someone.
When I was driving my car, I got a "what if I am in a crash and I shatter my knee?" thought. Anxiety.
"What if I suffer from a heart attack?" thought. Anxiety.
"What if a bear or cougar mauls me on the way to my car" while it's dark. Anxiety.
"What if I lose my job from having done something wrong?". Anxiety.
"What if this condition I can see/feel/etc. is something actually severe?" Anxiety.
I have borderline crippling anxiety, and the above are daily examples of how it manifests.
So now! Let's translate what that very same anxiety does to me in a
mafia
context.
And I mean that both in the sense of mafia game, and in the case for showing why I would not be fakeclaiming in this specific game, a mafia
alignment
!
Do you know how I think when I am scum?
Well in the context of this game, I can tell you what would happen for the idea of fakeclaiming being infected by the mold:
"What if there is a mold tracker role that can track players who have mold? If such a role exists and I fakeclaim, I could be caught by it!"
"What if there is a mold detector role that can detect mold on a player they target? If such a role exists and I fakeclaim, I could be caught by it!"
"What if there is a role that can detect things like [poisoned] [infected] etc. and they target me? If such a role exists and I fakeclaim, they wouldn't see the mold!"
"What if I need to use the mold every single night in order to use the role properly? What if not using the mold for a night literally costs us the game from having not used it?"
Depending on what the mold actually
does
, there might also be something akin to "What if the mold triggers and I am not impacted the way the players with the mold are?".
Depending on how the mold infects people (say for instance it could spread based on night actions), there might also be something akin to "What if someone targets me and then doesn't get infected by mold? Wouldn't that out me as a liar?"
I'm probably missing two or three more that come to mind.
You may insist.
"No human being could actually think that way!"
"Those thoughts are ridiculous!"
"Those thoughts are clearly absurd."
"Those thoughts are so improbable as to be borderline impossible."
And similar.
But if so?
If anything like that enters your mind?
You don't fucking know how anxiety works
in my brain
.
Because that is
precisely
how it works.
Yes, those thoughts are paranoia.
Yes, those thoughts are ridiculously unlikely.
Yes, those thoughts are neurotic, even deranged.
But that is how scumastina thinks. She fears so much as a 1%.
If there is a 1% chance of being caught in a lie, it means my anxiety will cause me to fear that possibility being real, and the thought then consumes my mind. It's an idea, it grows like a disease, and consumes me. The 1% grows to a 50+% in my mind. So the things that might be safe to do in practice become borderline suicide in my mind.
If the site mods want to ban me for having just described to you how my anxiety works, then by god I'm going to say something I never thought I would say and say that I will join Nancy Drew in saying that the site staff literally
is
discriminating against Neurodivergent folks.
Because guess what? Anxiety + Autism is why I am a wallposter. I'm obsessed with explaining my thoughts to perfection, thus, cannot be succinct.
I can no less get over a fear of fakeclaiming than I can be succinct. Them banning me for a fear of fakeclaiming as scum would literally be equivalent to them banning me for not being succinct. I'm dead serious in that comparison. It would be banning me for something that is
a fundamental immutable unchangeable aspect of myself
.
So I do truly hope that this is within their new bullshit rule, and also a sufficient answer to your statement.
mastina wrote:That said, I do in fact take issue with the trust tell part.
I don't fakeclaim as scum, and I say that every game, but that is not a policy I enforce because it is a policy--it is a policy I "enforce" because in literally every single game I play as scum, telling the truth is better than lying. Like, lying about my role would literally be playing against my wincon as scum; telling the truth about my role is genuinely me playing to my wincon.
This policy if I were to be punished for having it by the site rules would mean that you'd be requiring me to
literally gamethrow as scum
in order to not run afoul of it.
Sure, if a mod ran a game where I had a genuine need to fakeclaim (say that it's explicitly a role madness game with no VTs and I get an explicitly scum role that cannot be claimed as a town role), I would as scum lie about my role because in that scenario, truthfully claiming would be playing against my wincon.
But if a mod gives me a role that I can truthfully claim, then not claiming it is genuinely gamethrowing because the role as-is looks town enough to not be a scum role. (And if the role cannot be truthfully claimed, then it can be slightly modified. Roleblocker into Jailkeeper; turning a Disloyal scum role into a claim of being a Loyal town role. And if the role cannot be modified into a town role, then I can just claim VT.)
I say in every game that I do not fakeclaim as scum--but it's not because I refuse to. It's because it's genuinely gamethrowing for me to fakeclaim when the truth is literally my best weapon as scum.
Imo, trust tells typically are something that are, explicitly, designed to gain an advantage
as town
, while
at the detriment
to your scumgame.
If you are playing to your SCUM win condition, then it fundamentally cannot be a trust tell because it is fundamentally not to the detriment of your scumgame because it is not designed to gamethrow as scum to give an advantage to the town.
But this policy seems alarmingly like it is going to prevent me from playing to my scum wincon by stating that I don't fakeclaim.
In post 14, mastina wrote:That said, I do in fact take issue with the trust tell part.
I don't fakeclaim as scum, and I say that every game, but that is not a policy I enforce because it is a policy--it is a policy I "enforce" because in literally every single game I play as scum, telling the truth is better than lying. Like, lying about my role would literally be playing against my wincon as scum; telling the truth about my role is genuinely me playing to my wincon.
This policy if I were to be punished for having it by the site rules would mean that you'd be requiring me to
literally gamethrow as scum
in order to not run afoul of it.
Sure, if a mod ran a game where I had a genuine need to fakeclaim (say that it's explicitly a role madness game with no VTs and I get an explicitly scum role that cannot be claimed as a town role), I would as scum lie about my role because in that scenario, truthfully claiming would be playing against my wincon.
But if a mod gives me a role that I can truthfully claim, then not claiming it is genuinely gamethrowing because the role as-is looks town enough to not be a scum role. (And if the role cannot be truthfully claimed, then it can be slightly modified. Roleblocker into Jailkeeper; turning a Disloyal scum role into a claim of being a Loyal town role. And if the role cannot be modified into a town role, then I can just claim VT.)
I say in every game that I do not fakeclaim as scum--but it's not because I refuse to. It's because it's genuinely gamethrowing for me to fakeclaim when the truth is literally my best weapon as scum.
Imo, trust tells typically are something that are, explicitly, designed to gain an advantage
as town
, while
at the detriment
to your scumgame.
If you are playing to your SCUM win condition, then it fundamentally cannot be a trust tell because it is fundamentally not to the detriment of your scumgame because it is not designed to gamethrow as scum to give an advantage to the town.
But this policy seems alarmingly like it is going to prevent me from playing to my scum wincon by stating that I don't fakeclaim.
, I'd never been active as scum before.
If I was town, then by the revised rules that'd be considered a trust tell.
Because it was pointing out a truthful thing about my play that has a long long history of having been true.
As town, in the last three years, I've been rather passionate and incredibly invested in my towngames;
As scum, in the last three years, I've had fuckall of anything done--but not because of any deliberate effort.
It's just that I was struggling in those scumgames and not struggling in those towngames. But it was still a very very very strong trend, lasting over the course of MULTIPLE years.
I
couldn't
effort as scum. It wasn't a choice to not effort. I literally tried, but failed, every single time as scum. I could no more effort as scum than I could be succinct. In that it was literally just...part of me. I fundamentally was unable to be efforting as scum. But could effort easily as town.
I pointed that out in subreddit uPick, in order to try and dissuade the town from eliminating me, by pointing out that trend.
...But instead of being town, I was in fact actually scum and that scumgame just so happened to be the first game in over three years where I broke the trend.
Would I be punished for pointing out a trend that was out of my control, even if in the current game it was breaking the trend?
And similarly, for not lying, the only lie I told about my role that game was a lie of omission. I left out the redirect aspect of my role but otherwise claimed it fully. This was, explicitly, playing to my win condition: hiding a scum aspect to my role, but claiming the town aspect of it in a game where
the mods literally said every role started as town
. The mods literally said in the signups for the game that every role was designed initially as town, then refined based on alignment. So me saying my town role aspect but leaving out the scum aspect was playing to my wincon, but it was still 100% truthful, maintaining my "never lie about my role as scum" policy, unless you count a lie by omission (which imo does not count as a true lie).
Trust telling is something that imo is done to gain an advantage specifically as one alignment, to the detriment of the other alignment.
E.g. "I always self-hammer as scum" would be to the detriment of scumgame to gain an advantage as town. (The classic trust tell.) Stating "I am town" in red text as town but not as scum as another.
But when the rules are punishing a
playstyle
which affects me
regardless of my alignment
, I feel like that's an issue.
If it is not to the detriment of one alignment, why should it be punished? If it is universal in how it impacts your games, omnipresent regardless of your alignment and you constantly point out "this could be broken any time", "it COULD be broken this game, but...", "it's not something I control, but it still happens", etc., and yet you are still playing to your wincon
in that game
by doing it and not playing to future games' wincons? That feels dangerously restrictive.
I don't fakeclaim as scum is a perfect example of that. I don't fakeclaim because I fucking suck at lying/bullshitting roles so when I have no need to fakeclaim (which is 99.99% of all my scumgames), I just don't. It
can
benefit both alignments. (Not fakeclaiming as scum->fakeclaimed as town->likely to be seen as town; Not fakeclaiming as scum->claim is likely truthful->not scum bullshitting in spite of still being scum.) But it's not designed to.
As the post said, if you believe that bussing was genuinely against your wincon, then saying such shouldn't be prohibited because it can still work to your favor as either alignment. (If a player who doesn't bus generally decides that, actually, in this game, it wasn't playing against wincon? Then bam, bingo, scum benefit.)
Basically, absolutes which aren't absolute but just hold true in 99.99% of games due to the situation applying in 99.99% of games are, imo, not trust tells.
Games are situational. Every single time, every single game, the situation is different. If 99/100 situations end up with the same optimal outcome, why is it a trust tell to point out the optimal action/outcome in those 99/100 times? If 99/100 situations end up with the same optimal outcome, why can't you point out the 99/100 in the 1/100 situation? It feels incredibly limiting in an unhealthy way.
In post 1513, DkKoba wrote:solution to never being accused of trust telling: have a scum meta of being absolutely willing to break any and all tells you might have exclusive to you as town, and to do anything as town.
I mean that IS my scumplay.
I SAY "I never fakeclaim as scum", but actually, I have. It's just so rare that it's easier and simpler to say "I never fakeclaim as scum" rather than "fakeclaiming would be against a scum wincon for me here, just like it would be against a scum wincon in 99% of my games because fakeclaiming as scum is almost always the wrong move as scum when a truthful claim is more likely to believed and unable to be caught as a lie".
The former is now considered a trusttell even though the latter is the more accurate version and would weirdly enough not be one. The former is shorthand for the latter but the mods are banning the former and yet not the latter.
I SAY "If I'm posting, I'm town; if I'm not posting, I'm scum", but actually, I've been quite active as scum. It's just that in the last three years, 99% of my active games have been town games and 75% of my inactive games have been scumgames.
I am willing to break any towntell I have as scum. And I do, when the situation calls for it. But the situation calls for it very rarely; it wouldn't be a towntell if it was optimal scumplay every single scumgame.
I think the new rule is a bad change.
In post 29, implosion wrote:To address mastina's never-fakeclaiming-as-scum tell specifically, and why we believe it is an example that's over the line: it is a tell with a long history across a huge number of games, that it is claimed will, at least in some sense, never be broken. It is very centralizing because it is brought up so frequently. It is typically framed (or we've seen it framed) as intentionally avoiding certain options, rather than an incidental observation about how you play the game. It is typically framed as "I will never do this". Ultimately, we've looked at examples of it happening and we believe that on net, over time, it is harmful to game integrity. Avoiding these aspects of it (i.e. not framing it in this way, essentially treating it as an incidental aspect of the way you play the game that has no guarantee of categorically being true) would significantly lower the negative impact on game integrity that we believe it has.
The reason this is bullshit is because in basically every game, fakeclaiming is genuinely against a scum wincon.
Don't believe me?
Well let's break down almost every scumgame I've ever played and why I didn't fakeclaim--or in a couple of rare cases, why I did.
The "why I did" is just as important here--it shows proof that I have in fact fakeclaimed before in spite of me saying "I don't fakeclaim as scum".
I believe this was a fakeclaim? Game was too long ago for me to remember but I believe it was not a real claim given I flipped Mafia Cop? (I'd need to figure out how to access the scum QT to tell for sure.) So in one of my very first scumgames, I
That was augmented by this game, where my scumbuddy stole my safeclaim leaving me with no safeclaim, necessitating a fakeclaim from me--one which did not work. Because how could it? It was a fakeclaim. It wasn't what the mod provided me. I didn't have a mod-provided safeclaim because my scumbuddy who was already dead had used said safeclaim as their own. Without a fakeclaim of my own, I had to fake it and guess what?
Fakeclaiming didn't work
.
If fakeclaiming has a proven record of NOT WINNING ME SCUM GAMES, then why the fuck would I fakeclaim as scum?
fakeclaimed because it is the epitome of the one and only circumstance where fakeclaiming is the right choice: when it is necessary for you to live, you can make an educated guess, you can slot your role into the town roles without it being a scumclaim, there's a decent chance you do not get caught, and in the scenario where you do, you out a TPR for your scumteam to then kill.
For a fakeclaim to not be gamethrowing, it needs to hit all of those criteria. Why fakeclaim when you can live with a VT claim? A fakeclaim needs to have a purpose, where without it, you die. Why fakeclaim when you have no information? Fakeclaiming when there is danger of being caught is absolutely a terrible idea. Why fakeclaim when you have nothing you want to get out of the town from your claim? If you're not going to get a TPR to out themselves to take you down, and you go down without the TPR having done so, the fakeclaim was the wrong move.
It is the golden standard that every scumgame of mine would need to fit--
And literally every scumgame since then has
failed
to meet those criteria.
In this game, I was a Godfather. As a Godfather, you are
meant
to claim VT. You are meant to draw a Cop investigation, so you claim VT. You don't fakeclaim as a Godfather because you want to be playing in a way to bait a Cop investigation. So, the
optimal play
was to
not
fakeclaim. Literally would have been gamethrowing to have fakeclaimed.
In this game, there was a cop I believe with a guilty on me? (I don't remember exactly.) So I did fakeclaim there, counterclaiming the cop, as an example of me having fakeclaimed that I forgot about, this one done as a desperate one out of necessity where not fakeclaiming would have been gamethrowing. (Now obviously, didn't work out.) There was no way to avoid fakeclaiming, so fakeclaiming was genuinely playing to my win condition, so I did.
I only fakeclaim when doing so would be playing to my scum win condition.
At any other time, doing so would be against my wincon.
. But I lost the 50/50 because I chose to fakeclaim and as a consequence, got outted as a confirmed liar.
The risk of being outed as a confirmed liar is one of the BIG fucking reasons I don't fakeclaim as scum.
If there is a risk of being outed as a liar as scum, then fakeclaiming is, as shown by the above game, genuinely playing against your win condition, when telling the truth would have won you the game (or at least done you more good).
In this game, I technically also fakeclaimed although I was inheriting the fakeclaim of my slot's predecessor (Titus had already claimed by the time I replaced in, just not publicly).
In this game, my role was one that I needed to be truthful about. Given that I was giving out inventions, it's something I
couldn't
lie about. It was literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to lie that game. I HAD to tell the truth; not telling the truth would have been gamethrowing. So, a lack of fakeclaiming as scum was playing to my wincon because telling the truth is genuinely the only thing I COULD do.
. When the MODERATOR provides a SAFEclaim, that means as scum it is SAFE to claim that role and have it not out you as scum. That means that there is no need to fakeclaim because the moderator provided a mod-given safeclaim. And it was a good safeclaim, too. Claiming anything else would have been gamethrowing.
In this game, I claimed my mod-provided safeclaim. It might've been slightly modified, I don't quite remember the details, I discussed it with a scumbuddy the entire night to make sure it was good enough, but it was still mod-provided as a safeclaim. It was not a fakeclaim. Because there is a tangible difference between 'safeclaim' and 'fakeclaim'. A
safe
claim is a moderator-provided claim given to scum that is safe to claim without it being a scumclaim. A
fake
claim is a scum-designed claim that the scum make on their own without (or with minimal) input from the mod. This was the former, not the latter, but the presence of a safeclaim invalidates the need for a fakeclaim.
fakeclaim, as a scum traitor...
...And for my troubles? My scumteam SHOT me for my fakeclaim. I did genuinely believe that, as a traitor, fakeclaiming was playing to the scum wincon, but you can clearly tell by how the game went why fakeclaiming did not work,
yet again
reinforcing my policy for why fakeclaiming is bad as scum.
hide (using the double vote was public), and the other half of my role was advantageous to claim. Fakeclaiming would have been gamethrowing especially given the setup in that game so not fakeclaiming was the best move.
In this game, I realclaimed my role, and realclaimed the circumstances. The moderator genuinely
did
forget to send me my results at daystart (I have the PMs to prove it); every time I asked the mod questions, I told the truth about that in the thread (I have the PMs to prove it); every answer I got back from the mod was truthful and I have the PMs to prove it.
So telling the truth about all of that was playing to my wincon.
But I actually
did
tell a lie which counts as a fakeclaim of sorts. A Loyal Tracker targeted me the night before, so I lied about the results of my role to indicate that I was redirected--this was a necessity to prevent the guilty on me from being an actual guilty. It was a situation where I was telling
mostly
the truth, with a
necessary
lie. But the truth was NECESSARY for the lie to work. Without the truth, the lie would have been obviously a lie. So both telling the truth,
and
telling the lie, were necessary to be playing to my wincon. Purely telling the truth, or completely bullshitting, both would have been playing against my wincon; it was only the 98% truth with a 2% lie that made it work.
Which again adds fuel to the fire. Had I been fakeclaiming, that would not have worked. I
could not
have won that game without telling almost entirely the truth.
In this game, I needed to tell the truth about my role in order to ensure I was the D1 elimination. Pine (our scum mastermind) correctly deduced that my role was worthless to the scumteam (and thus, expendable), and the counterwagon to me was a far far far more useful scum role that we actually needed. So telling the truth rather than fakeclaiming was me playing to my wincon because the scum needed to sacc me in order to save the scum PR. Fakeclaiming would have been playing against my wincon because it'd have resulted in the far stronger scum PR being eliminated instead of me.
In this game, I couldn't fakeclaim because the game's mechanics were literally you having a past role of a past game. That meant I could only claim past town roles of mine. None of which would have fit for the game.
In this game, it was literally impossible for me to fakeclaim. My Hated status was something that needed to be claimed by necessity. And the only way to use my role was to use it publicly. I
couldn't
fakeclaim. I
couldn't
lie about my role--it was LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. So there was no possible way for me to fakeclaim, forcing a truthful claim.
In this game, I claimed a modified version of the scum mechanic. It was both a realclaim, and a fakeclaim. I did as scum have something
similar
, but I actually DID lie. I claimed that I had empowered the slot that (unbeknownst to the town) was empowered by the dead-town. So this is another example of a game where I both did, and did not, fakeclaim. It was equal parts true, and not true. It was equal parts real, and bullshit. Genuinely 50/50 on each. And that was the correct move. A pure bullshit claim with zero truth to it would have not given me anything; a purely truthful claim would've been gamethrowing as skitter knew from mod info what the scum's mechanic was and we knew she did.
In this game, I claimed ascetic because I genuinely was afraid not doing so was a scumclaim. Realclaiming was something that I thought would be playing to my wincon there because if I didn't claim it, then I could be caught and made confscum. Now, granted. I left out the Informed part, because that was a pure scum info that I saw no reason to divulge. So you can say that I lied by omission, but that's about it. Not claiming ascetic was too much of a risk because if an action failed on me which had no reason to fail, then I'd have been screwed. After all, I knew there was a LOYAL NEIGHBORIZER (two actually) in the game. A loyal neighborizer targeting me would get a guilty result, and I needed to explain why the guilty would not be a guilty. Thus, I needed to claim the ascetic. Trueclaiming was, by the setup, made necessary. I COULD NOT have fakeclaimed there because fakeclaiming would have been against my scum wincon.
In this game, I had no reason to lie about my role and had incentive to tell the truth on everything, with the exception of saying I did not kill N1 (when I did), which I had incentive for thanks to my scumbuddy. My role was guaranteed to die at the end of D2, so all I had to do was survive through D1 after using my role, lie about not having done the kill, and let my scumbuddy claim a(n accurate) guilty on me.
In this game, I claimed my real role because there was no reason not to claim it. Doctor was my real role and is a town role. Why would I need to invent a fakeclaim when my realclaim is better than any fakeclaim could be?
In this game, there was genuinely nothing I could claim given what the town roles were. I was also a scum role
literally designed to die
. I was a scum role that was
designed
to be eliminated, in order to janitor my flip and to janitor the flip the following night. When you are a role
designed
to die, you're not
meant
to claim something that will let you live. And even should you choose to, when the town has the tools they had that game, there weren't a lot of options. What
was
I supposed to claim there? I had basically nothing. No mod safeclaim, no viable fakeclaim.
In this game, I was a Goon and the counterwagon to me was a scumbuddy; it was, explicitly, playing to my wincon to
not
fakeclaim because had I fakeclaimed, then our scum PR we wanted to live would have been eliminated on D1.
In this game, due to poor mod design, the only three PRs were basically masons. It was very very obvious that they were the only three PRs in the game from the game design and that there were no other PRs. All three were known, easily identified, proven, and un-CC'able (due to being the last scum alive, natch). Because of the setup and the circumstance, I
couldn't
fakeclaim that game because fakeclaiming would have been gamethrowing.
In this game, I fully believed that claiming my role truthfully was a town role. Scum never get to use Vigilantes so me being a scum Vigilante made me genuinely believe that claiming Vig was playing to my wincon. Lying I thought would be playing against my wincon.
So.
Why am I being punished for saying I don't fakeclaim as scum, when I have always had
damn fucking good reasons
for not having fakeclaimed as scum? (And, in fact,
have a proven record of fakeclaiming as scum
? Did the listmods not do their fucking research into my game history and not notice the games where my claimed role actually didn't match my assigned role?)
I genuinely have just laid out my entire scum history of notable games with claims, and the results speak for themselves.
Every time I fakeclaimed without meeting the standards by which a fakeclaim is optimal, it didn't work, because the fakeclaim was not optimal.
The times I fakeclaim which meet the standards to fakeclaim are incredibly rare.
Most fakeclaims are best supported by being more true than not, at least 50% true if not 75-95%. If a claim's 5% fake but 95% real it's more likely to be believed than a claim that's 95% fake but 5% real.
And most setups actually punish the scum for fakeclaiming and reward the scumteam for trueclaiming.
So the policy, and the rule, is bullshit.
I don't fakeclaim as scum not because of policy against fakeclaiming as scum, but because
fakeclaiming would be gamethrowing as scum
. And stating that, which is truthful, should NOT be against the rules. If it is against my wincon to fakeclaim as scum, then not being able to mention that is literally ridiculous.
Side-note, but genuinely, thank you for this. This post actually helped me a lot mentally to read it.
Yeah, I know, it's just you citing your reason for the belief, but reading what I have RE: anxiety and such, actually helped me with it right now.
planning on making the same exact opener post I made in Ginngie's game just to trigger folks before I got my role PM (and that post did in fact have the mason claim), but once I read my role PM, I couldn't figure out how to reconcile my planned post and the need to genuinely claim my role this game (for those who don't know, I plan my opening post the moment I sign up for a game). I spent like an hour or two trying to figure it out in my head, trying to see if it could be possible to do both, but no matter what, it just always came off as awkward, not conveying what it needed to, etc. So I had to drop the idea and settle for just the claim.
Ah well. Maybe next game. (Preferably with more of the same players, too.)
In post 545, butterchurn wrote:Is mastina the type of player to go for an attention-drawing gambit like claiming beloved princess as scum?
Very much not so, but it'd be bannable to say just how much not so.
(This is me saying it in a joke-manner btw; I can explain it more seriously with nuance that actually follows site rules but it's still fun to poke at the ridiculousness of the shitty-ass rule and how arbitrary and discriminatory it is. Still tho, I do unironically need to make it clear to the site mods that the above is a joke, lest they take the above as a trust tell. Because again, arbitrary rule is arbitrary and thus bullshit. It
should
be stupidly obvious I am in fact telling a joke but I've ZERO trust in the listmods to recognize it as humor so I sadly need a paragraph to explain a oneliner joke as a joke.)
Post
Post #801 (isolation #14) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:07 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 624, catboi wrote:not that it would have mattered because scum had a doc
We also had a roleblocker and literally the only reason we left you alive and unblocked is that we wanted you to vig town. So vigging me would've been indistinguishable between you hitting an unannounced protection and you being roleblocked.
I’ll just persuade Catboi to vig her for real this time
Actually, a vig on me would be,
conditionally
, not a bad thing!
If nobody is scumreading me, obviously, a vig on me is a bad idea.
If the majority of players really scumreading me are scum(spects), obviously, a vig on me is a bad idea.
But if the majority of players seriously scumreading me are town, then a vig would actually be a good idea. So long as it's a standard night vig and not a day vig, the mod confirmed that day would not be skipped if I was vigged during the night. So if there's actual suspicion on me that is valid, the best method would in fact be a vig.
That said, obviously, my plan is to be obvtown enough, accurate enough, and persuasive enough, that the scumteams have no choice but to kill me in spite of my claim dissuading them from wanting to. (Hey I've gotten shot as a town miller N1 after claiming D1, so I've done it before.)
Because I developed a whole entire RVS read nuance where I created a model where certain RVS entrances are +town and others are +scum, generically speaking. These RVS entrance reads have some nuance to them based on the context surrounding them, including game flavor, what has already been posted inthread, usernames/signatures/avatars, and player history with each other.
These generic reads are then refined by my knowledge of the player in question making them, and enhanced by the final determining factor of gut. I look at the post, I run the mental calculation on them, and I also crossreference it with other reads. If I see a player pick up on the same vibes I do, for instance, then that player is immediately going to be more town to me than they may otherwise have been. (Basically, if player A sees that player B's RVS is suspect and votes player B, and I share that opinion that player B's RVS is suspect, it's going to increase my read on player A.)
The greatest tragedy of mafiascum is that I once had this so well defined and mapped out that I almost wrote a post laying out the methodology used, and yet didn't, and since then, it's gone from something I did with active thought to instead be something I do automatically and instinctively, so I no longer can explain it the way I would've when it was something that was newer.
Basically, I developed an entire system, and the system was incredibly good but also incredibly complex. I still use the system that I developed, but I internalized it and thus, I lost the ability to explain the system I developed. I can share bits and pieces of the system when the thought is around allowing me to explain it, but I can't explain the whole system all at once the way I originally could've had I actually made the post explaining it that I wanted to.
It's obviously not a 100% accurate thing, but it's actually disproportionately accurate overall over the course of years of use. It tends to steer things in an overall good direction, even when its accuracy is lower.
If you want to ask about a specific read I had though, go ahead; I can explain any of them!
In post 635, Tracer Bullet wrote:except tictac/Meg cuz I don't remember any posts by either player(I've also got shit for memory)
tictac's looking like the same town tictac I've seen in my last two or three games with tictac.
MegAzumarill is similarly looking vaguely town to me.
Post
Post #804 (isolation #15) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:23 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 692, MegAzumarill wrote:People should stop acting like every role is forced to be able to be from any faction. The setup has elements of randomization but nothing says its entirely random. So, the takeaway should be any role can be any faction, but any role can also just not be randomized. Saying you don't believe a claim because it would be able to be randomized where the game would be unbalanced is not a valid arguement because that literally may not be a possibility
To be honest the main reason Meg's not townier to me is that Meg's posts are so townie to me that it's keeping me from townreading Meg harder because I've not townread Meg this hard when MegAzumarill was actually town.
Post
Post #1771 (isolation #17) » Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:10 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 820, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Wouldn’t it be funny if Mastina’s huge explanation of their usage of an system they cannot really describe in full because of hod complex it is, is just an fancy way of saying: "gut check"
I mean gut is always used in even the most logical of systems since no system has a "100% guaranteed" tell that will
always
indicate an alignment. If a tell is 75-25, you still have to use gut to determine if it's the 75 or the 25. Statistically speaking, it'll usually be the 75 because it wouldn't be 75-25 if the 75 wasn't more common than the 25, but statistically speaking, it still can be the 25 because it wouldn't be 75-25 if there wasn't a 25.
In post 807, Toogeloo wrote:How do you have a scum lean on a slot that never even picked up their role PM?
In post 641, Cephrir wrote:momo will be replaced if they fail to pick up their role PM by tomorrow morning.
Momo didn't skip out on the game because they didn't like their role PM. They didn't even open it.
While this seems like a fair argument initially, it falls apart when you realize one simple fact.
You don't need to look at your
role PM
to know that you have drawn scum.
You can just
look at your private topics
and tell that you have drawn scum.
Tell me: how can Cephrir differentiate between "momo has not viewed the PM or the scum PT at all", and, "momo did not view the PM, viewed the scum PT, but just didn't post in the scum PT"?
The two are entirely inseparable to him. But the difference between the former and the latter is a difference in likely alignment for the slot.
And since momo flakes more often as scum and momo need not read his role PM to learn that he is scum, trying to clear yourself from momo having not read the role PM doesn't actually work. In fact, it's the opposite; it makes the slot
Post
Post #1777 (isolation #18) » Sat Apr 30, 2022 12:01 am
Postby mastina »
In post 846, butterchurn wrote:Mastina, I would like for you to explain your reasoning behind your scumread on me.
Well your play screams "scum in multiball".
Your posts look like you're genuinely scumhunting, but not from a town alignment. Your reads and interactions seem like they don't match with being scumbuddies with about half of my scumreads, but look like an exact match for a scumbuddy for about the other half. (This isn't something I've more precisely mapped out tho I probably should. But mental math says about half of my scumreads work as scumbuddies together.)
A lot of your stances, reads, etc., look like you aren't town, with them being a little bit awkward, a little bit off, a little bit "lacking" something I would expect to see from a town player with those reads, but still putting in effort. The effort looks like it comes from scum trying rather than from town trying, in the same way I am scumreading Monkeyman for.
You're playing well, but your play looks like scum playing well rather than town playing well. It just has something missing from being pure town and instead looks "only half town"--as in, genuinely scumhunting, but also playing to a scum agenda with the reads not being 'pure'. Your reads look like they come from a perspective of having too much information involved in forming them and of not being entirely sincere/genuine, while still being largely sincere/genuine.
In other words: the exact profile I'd expect from a scum player in multiball.
Post
Post #1781 (isolation #19) » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:00 am
Postby mastina »
In post 958, Tracer Bullet wrote:he's alrdy slipping that I'm right by saying i'm right by luck rather than skill
if you like actually read his comment and think about what it means lol
For the record I hard-agree with this sentiment on FL being scum for the reasons given, too.
(Also, I realize that there's a
lot
of pages to read and I won't be able to read them all tonight, unfortunately. But, I figure that the pages are commentary-worthy-lite, as in, they won't have much that I need to actually comment on, and even-lighter-changes-in-reads-containing, as in, the content won't affect my reads in any significant way by and large.
I still DO need to read it tho, just in case there's content within which
does
shift my reads. I just can't do it tonight because it's 5 am.)
In post 984, Tracer Bullet wrote:Flavor Leaf is more interested in talking about how he's scum!god than actually catching scum in this game.
Therefore
Flavor Leaf is scum
This is valid!
In post 1000, Tracer Bullet wrote:flavor!town enthuiastically pushing people even when wrong.
flavor!?!?!?!?!? here doing nothing
I wonder what !?!?!?!?! is
I already had Tracer Bullet as strong town but the amount by which Tracer Bullet is saying what I want to about FL before I have said it automatically ups them to conftown.
Post
Post #1786 (isolation #22) » Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:21 am
Postby mastina »
In post 1084, Tracer Bullet wrote:the fact that he is somehow turning that into me insulting him
is a fucking joke and shows just how thinskinned he is
I would like to highlight the difference between Mena's reaction to the "insult" towards not being catboi level...
...And FL's reaction to the "insult".
One of their reactions was not the same as the other.
(Mena's reaction was hella town; FL's reaction hardspewed him scum.)
(I probably would explain this more if it wasn't 5:15 and I didn't have literally half the game left to read still, but, can elaborate on this when more up to date.)
(Stopping at bottom of 45 btw, will continue when possible. Tomorrow's probably booked and Sunday may or may not be busy but obviously I need to get caught up sooner rather than later so I'll do what I can when I can. I def need to get caught up before the end of my Monday tho.)
Post
Post #2930 (isolation #23) » Sun May 01, 2022 8:57 pm
Postby mastina »
So as a reminder, probably not going to get caught up
tonight
, but my goal's to get caught up before I go to bed tomorrow. (I've got two hours or so before I'll be going to bed, which is enough time to probably read ~15-40 pages, but not a full 70.)
In post 1133, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I think all my previous games with Catboi they were town so i don't even know if the rumors of supposedly epic scumplay are true.
To be honest, same, but catboi's been good as town, too, overall. Not "best player on site consistently", good, but still
good
, in being fairly strong overall performing in each town game.
(For the record I saw some posts from catboi in the ~90s page range which made me hella strong townread him but I'll explain that when I get to them in a proper commentary. I usually wouldn't mention the skim-knowledge since when I have skim knowledge I like to use it to form a more solid opinion and quote the posts with my take on them, as in, in this case quoting the posts in the 90ish range when I was in the 90ish range. But I'm not doing that right now because, 1: I might not actually get there tonight, and, 2: it's important to this post back here in where I am in the 40s-50s.)
And to my eye, this looks like catboi playing a strong towngame rather than a strong scumgame. (This will get more explanation as I continue my catchup obv.)
I'd be down for that since Toog randed scum this game.
In post 1187, catboi wrote:To demonstrate that no one should take his pushes seriously because he's not actually basing them off of reads but wanting people to be scum
Tracer Bullet still raised valid points on Flavor Leaf, and even if the points were nai (I'd argue they were not), FL's reaction to them hard-spewed him as scum.
Post
Post #2932 (isolation #24) » Sun May 01, 2022 9:07 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 1208, catboi wrote:Does it look like this person actually cares about trying to solve the game? half her poosts are throwaway filler responses to other people, she's just riding off other people's reads, there's no evidence to show she has any thoughts on the game that are her own.
Actually it's those very things that are making me think the slot is town.
There's a certain level of "casualness" to be had--not too serious, but also not too empty. There's lighthearted pushes, but those lighthearted pushes are backed by opinions. These stances are ones that look like they are formed independently and contain unique reasons and logic that is decent, but not perfect. Wallflower looks exactly like I would expect a newer less-established town player to be to me: not able to radiate obvtown the way some obvtown do, but not radiating obvtown the way scum in multiball would.
Of course, I admit--this isn't locktown strength; this is lean town. Wallflower feels like an incredibly lazy, bad, shit elimination for D1 with a high chance of flipping town. But the strength of my townread isn't absolute. I am fully aware I could be mistaken in my belief that the slot is town, but if I am and Wallflower flips scum I'm willing to face the consequences down the line of having had the slot north of null. Because I don't think Wallflower
Y'all I don't know why you've not been wagoning Toogeloo since Toog's not even trying to pretend that this isn't Toog's scumgame.
Is your reason for not limming the obvscum "Toog's not even trying to hide being scum and thus cannot be scum"?
Because Toog is just scum here pretty damn obviously so.
Post
Post #2933 (isolation #25) » Sun May 01, 2022 9:29 pm
Postby mastina »
(For the record I would like to point out that I am aware that I am behind by a lot.
For now
, I don't have an issue with this, since I sincerely believe that I can get caught up, and once caught up I won't fall behind by a lot again, since the game will presumably have slowed down to a more manageable pace requiring less commentary. However, I'm aware that interacting with very old content and not interacting with folks on more recent stuff is not optimal, so if it turns out that I actually can't get caught up, I'll abandon the effort.
Right now, I'm not abandoning the catchup effort because I genuinely sincerely believe I
can
get caught up, realistically. But if it turns out that my desire to catch up is unrealistic, I'll just go "fuck it, catching up from here". We've not reached that point, yet, but I have it on my radar. I've been responding to posts concurrent to my catchups when I catch them for instance, so like. I can abandon the catchup at any time, I just don't think it's a
necessity
to do so yet. So I'm aiming to be caught up within the next two days.)
Big mood. (I am slightly townreading Keeper by the way.)
In post 1288, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Flavour i think you’re wrong when you suggest the goal is for scum to pocket town in multiball. I think the goal is to simply survive. And to do that you need to make it so that you aren’t making yourself too obvious an target by obvtowning. But also not too desireable an lim because that allows you to be eliminated.
I think i’m allowed to say this as i’ve been nommed for Hannibal Lecter so when it comes to third-party play i do know some things. And Multiball is basically the same mindset for an scum player. It’s all about the balancing act. Don’t give town or the second groupscum too much power. Keep the gamestate contested and keep your priorities just right. Pocket some town, but not too many. Push scum, but not too hard. Make yourself indispensable for both town and scum so they both have an reason to keep you around. That’s how i actually expect scum to play here.
For the record: this is the one and only way you
could
be scum, is via your resemblance to your arsonist game.
But otherwise you just radiate townness.
In post 1254, catboi wrote: MegAzumarill and Toogeloo voting me is, like, expected behavior for them. They both have...low-effort playstyles, sheeping the largest wagon is totally within their town range.
Meg? Yes. It's town-indicative.
Toog? No, it's literally the opposite. Toog never makes that vote as town.
In post 1248, catboi wrote:Reading bnuuy's ISO. Not drawing any conclusions from it. Kind of seemed fillery, the way they FoSed monkeyman rather that joining the bandwagon seemed odd, like they might have been wanting to contribute to the pressure without looking like they were being opportunistic. Kind of like being more questioning of FL townreading them and not caring much about the scumreads, though. Reference to getting scumread for playstyle, might have to check that out. Still feels aggressively null, could easily be the type of limbait player I frequently misread.
I on the other hand have no qualms about scumreading that slot.
In post 1262, Flavor Leaf wrote:Yeah, I'd by a ticket to a Catboi vs Norwegian opening night.
You would, because TvT shows are always a pleasure for scum to watch.
Side-note, but 1284 is basically a hard-scumclaim from FL.
(For the record, I would legit vote anyone on my south-of-null list and genuinely just don't know
who
to vote. There's nine scum, eight of them groupscum, and if my reads are in the right area, most if not all of the players I am scumreading are scum so like...which scum do I want to vote for? A vote for scum is a vote for scum but I only have one vote in spite of having like eight players I want to vote.)
Post
Post #2935 (isolation #26) » Sun May 01, 2022 9:41 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 1312, Titus wrote:I'm seeing a bunch of counterwagons spring up to MonkeyMan576 and I am not a fan.
If by this you mean Monkeyman is scum, then yes, I agree.
In post 1311, MonkeyMan576 wrote:I have to admit I don't really like Wallflowers non confrontational approach so far. VOTE: Wallflower
In post 1306, MalcolmTucker wrote:Reading through Wallflower's big post and to be honest none of it is really convincing me they are town. Ultimately despite their suspicions they are still very much hedging their bets on the slot, and some of their pros for Catboi being mafia are not particularly strong to me. VOTE: Wallflower
And people wonder why I would be scumreading these two slots.
Why did the wagons on Monkeyman and Malcom die out???
Both of these are literally textbook scum votes on town.
Like.
Literally, textbook.
Genuinely the one and only reason I could see for folks
not
realizing this is going "oh it's so obvious it must not actually be the case".
But like.
It's genuinely as textbook scum vote as scum votes get.
I mean this is always the case for them. (But for real, see below.)
In post 1405, Save The Dragons wrote:how come you doubt the VT but didn't doubt when mastina claimed with zero pressure on her
Uh, Beloved Princess is like a Miller or Ascetic--it's a role you
never
leave unclaimed on D1.
Like, what are people going to say if the game gets to day-before-lylo and a player who has survived to that point claims beloved princess? As in, a role that if true would be literally game-losing to eliminate on that day-before-lylo by turning it effectively into lylo?
For the same reason you claim Miller/Ascetic on D1 to avoid a town investigative investigating you and getting a false guilty resulting in you being run up for not claiming, you claim Beloved Princess on D1 to avoid the potential of the town throwing the game. (This is especially true because I've been speedlimmed before with no chance to claim. What happens if I've not claimed on, say, D4, and then I get run up while not expecting it? Very Bad Things, I'd assume.)
In post 1407, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Does anyone here think Titus did not in fact roll an scum role this game?
*raises hand*
Norwee, I trust you to be town but with respect, the Titus hydra is town ten times over in every way possible. Titus has hard-townslipped, Titus's posting is town even without the townslip, and Malakittens' posts are as town as town can get.
In post 1382, MonkeyMan576 wrote:I find the odds that SoD is VT to be very low, based on the first game role setup.
there were 3 last game what exactly are you referring to
Out of what, 15 or 16 town, that's a pretty low percentage chance.
On that note, I wanna look into the players who have shown familiarity with the last game (including it being fairly low on VTs) and then in spite of having shown that familiarity, displaying suspicion of me.
In post 1370, Toogeloo wrote:I'm just going to continue watching the people in the thread for now. I'll add something when I see something worth adding.
This is a slot people think for some reason isn't scum.
Post
Post #2952 (isolation #29) » Sun May 01, 2022 10:16 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 2944, Wallflower wrote:The townread of me + read of catboi as strong Town is also quite dissonant. The effort put in to explain a townread of me is also weirdly selective when explaining the catboi townread would probably be the priority for mastina town? But my guess is that she sees me as the damsel in distress
Well as you pointed out: catboi's a big boi and can show himself to be town quite well on his own.
Beyond that, I already said; most of what makes catboi as strong town as he is, comes from later content in the thread I've not reached in my proper readthrough, content I saw only through skims rather than proper reads. I want to explain the catboi read when I actually get to that.
Which, again, I feel the need to reiterate I
intend
to have finished within the next couple days or so. With a week until deadline, I'm aiming to be caught up at ~4-5 days to go, so as to let me be actively involved in consolidating a wagon.
If y'all eliminated catboi, while I was catching up, with that much time left on the clock: you have zero right to pin the blame of that inevitable townflip on me; that's a combination of the town gamethrowing and the scumteams being opportunistic fucks. I'm not to blame for taking a
perfectly reasonable
course of action in taking time that there is zero reason for me to not take.
Basically--why would I need to focus on defending catboi right now? There's literally zero need to, and if y'all eliminated catboi and then tried to say *I* was suspect, you're (what's the least-bannable way of saying, 'stupid', 'dumb', 'morons', etc.? Because I don't wanna get banned for calling you that but it'd be precisely that), because you'd effectively be gaslighting yourselves by blaming me for something that was entirely not my fault.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with taking my time when we have a week left, to get caught up and comment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to both let catboi defend himself and also time my content RE:catboi to be in the appropriate area of me catching up. There IS an issue with forcing a catboi elimination through with a week on the clock, just like there WOULD be an issue in, having forced through a catboi elimination through with a week on the clock, then trying to blame someone unrelated to this rather than blaming those who actually did the deed of eliminating catboi with a week on the deadline clock. (Not sure if I'm explaining this well but basically: with the luxury of time on our side, any artificial forcing of the day is bad and any saying "don't give these players time to catch up" / "these players are suspect for catching up" is also bad especially in tandem with the forcing of the day to end.)
Post
Post #2956 (isolation #31) » Sun May 01, 2022 10:29 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 1489, Klick wrote:People I don't want to eliminate today
butterchurn
Nashville Dreams
Save The Dragons
Wallflower
Well Done
Menalque
People I think are fairly likely to flip scum
Toogeloo
catboi
MalcolmTucker
bnuuy
If catboi was swapped with butterchurn this list would be fairly similar to my own.
Now, granted--not sure it makes Klick town since, well, multiball (and with factions of four, having specifically four scumreads is, well, the amount scum would have), but it does mean that Klick's definitely the name in my below-null list that's least likely to flip scum imo.
In post 1435, Enchant wrote:Did someone CC Beloved Princess, or i am wrong from skim?
(I hope y'all realize that Enchant actually IS scum here. Since this is Enchant's scumgame.)
(I'm pretty sure FL-Enchant are in fact scumbuddies too btw.)
I think I gotta call it at page 60 (which was 15 pages so the minimum of what I wanted); losing lucidity + want to go to bed somewhat early for tomorrow so I can take a shower.
I don't wanna be late for work tomorrow, so logging in to mafiascum is dangerous, but I'll see if I can squeeze in some time before I leave. (Regardless of if I do or don't tho, will be more around Monday night. Late late Monday night, so late it'll likely be Tuesday morning.)
I will set a hard deadline tho; if I'm not caught up by Tuesday Night, I'll toss out the idea of catching up and just play as-is.
Post
Post #2957 (isolation #32) » Sun May 01, 2022 10:34 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 2954, butterchurn wrote:Why did so much of that post focus on why you should not be to blame for catboi being eliminated when that wasn't ever in question or even brought up at all? Seems like a strangely pre-emptive defensiveness.
Uh.
How was it not brought up?
The entirety of Wallflower's post was saying "mastina not defending catboi when catboi should be a priority defense, is suspect". That's literally what Wallflower was saying.
So I was pointing out why I saw no need to defend catboi, and why--if catboi were eliminated while I'm catching up and inevitably flipped town--the idea of saying I was suspect for not defending catboi is ridiculously stupid. Because it is. catboi's not a priority defense for me because I am catching up. There is zero need for a catboi elimination to be pushed through. And thus, saying I'm suspect for not defending catboi when catboi inevitably flips town is rats-ass backwards because the real suspicion
should
be on the players who would've denied me the chance to have done that defense: the players who would've rushed a catboi elimination through.
Post
Post #2960 (isolation #33) » Sun May 01, 2022 10:40 pm
Postby mastina »
Basically:
1: We have a week until deadline
2: I am catching up
3: A fair amount of the strength in my catboi townread comes from content later in my catchup
4: catboi is the main wagon right now
5: I am not defending catboi
6: Wallflower is insinuating that because of point #4, point #5 makes me suspect.
7: I am rebuking that point by demonstrating that, thanks to point #1, there is no need for a catboi elimination to be pushed through
8: If a catboi elimination is not pushed through while I am catching up, there was no need for me to defend him, since I can defend him after the catchup or later during it
9: If a catboi elimination IS pushed through while I am catching up, then it is the players involved that are to blame, not me, because of points 2, 3, and 8.
The game has also been open for only a week, and I've been quite swamped during that week. I will catch up faster than the posts are produced, since the speed of my catchup will only continue to accelerate. I only did 15 pages today, sure, but tomorrow I should do at least 30 if not 60, which would get me all the way caught up or most of the way thereto.
That, aside from how the game producing 20 pages a day is not sustainable--the pace of the game will, naturally, slow down. The speed of my catchup will increase and the speed of the game will decrease, for the exact reason you mentioned; things are fairly stalled.
So this is not an issue--not yet.
It'll be an issue if I don't post tomorrow or I start at like 2 am, yeah.
But as of this moment, this is just stupidity on your part for thinking that what I am doing is foolish, nonsensicle, or in any way unproductive. Because I am arguably the player who has the highest chance of, in having done this, actually given the town a direction to move on D1.
With 20 pages per game day, town players' memories are goldfish. They make good points, but promptly forget those very same good points they made. The inverse is also true. With 20 pages per game day, town players can latch onto a read without remembering why, and then never reassess the read in spite of having reason to.
A person catching up can, and does, fix both of those issues because it reminds people of their good points and challenges them on old outdated assumptions they never bothered to update.
In post 2958, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:This day has had pretty much every wagon stalling, and we should really be consolidating wagons instead of vanity wagoning our pet scumreads. I'd be happy with either catboi or ND going through today atp.
Consolidation
can
start at a week left, but it need not to. Consolidation should begin in the ~3-5 day mark, which is why that's the aim for me to be caught up by and also the point where if I'm not I go "ah well, fuck being caught up" and give up on catching up in spite of the perks thereof.
But that said, when consolidation
does
happen, FUCK the catboi and ND wagons; they're both on town.
I am in fact willing to consolidate; I've no intention to vanity vote. But I'm not voting a townread here and the more and more I see, the more and more sure I am that catboi's as town as town can be. (A status that ND already had.)
In post 2954, butterchurn wrote:Why did so much of that post focus on why you should not be to blame for catboi being eliminated when that wasn't ever in question or even brought up at all? Seems like a strangely pre-emptive defensiveness.
Uh.
How was it not brought up?
The entirety of Wallflower's post was saying "mastina not defending catboi when catboi should be a priority defense, is suspect". That's literally what Wallflower was saying.
So I was pointing out why I saw no need to defend catboi, and why--if catboi were eliminated while I'm catching up and inevitably flipped town--the idea of saying I was suspect for not defending catboi is ridiculously stupid. Because it is. catboi's not a priority defense for me because I am catching up. There is zero need for a catboi elimination to be pushed through. And thus, saying I'm suspect for not defending catboi when catboi inevitably flips town is rats-ass backwards because the real suspicion
should
be on the players who would've denied me the chance to have done that defense: the players who would've rushed a catboi elimination through.
In post 2960, mastina wrote:Basically:
1: We have a week until deadline
2: I am catching up
3: A fair amount of the strength in my catboi townread comes from content later in my catchup
4: catboi is the main wagon right now
5: I am not defending catboi
6: Wallflower is insinuating that because of point #4, point #5 makes me suspect.
7: I am rebuking that point by demonstrating that, thanks to point #1, there is no need for a catboi elimination to be pushed through
8: If a catboi elimination is not pushed through while I am catching up, there was no need for me to defend him, since I can defend him after the catchup or later during it
9: If a catboi elimination IS pushed through while I am catching up, then it is the players involved that are to blame, not me, because of points 2, 3, and 8.
I'm not sure how else to explain this.
In post 2961, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:There's going to be another 40+ pages by Tuesday morning though. But fine, we did also get a recent replacement as well.
Only if y'all are either stupid or insanely productive.
When productive talk dies out, then the game pace slows down.
If there's 40 new pages, then that means that either it was kept artificially going out of stupidity, or it was kept going because contrary to what you're assuming, the game has not stalled.
Basically, what I am positing is that it is impossible for the game to have its rate of content continue AND have the game be stalled, barring incredible stupidity. It's guaranteed to either slow down to the stall, or keep going because it
isn't
stalled.
I'll fully admit the latter is possible, but in that case I just abandon the catchup to be actively involved in the not-stalled content.
What happened to this wagon and why the fuck did it go away.
Because I very much think it should not have gone away.
In fact.
VOTE: bnuuy
In post 1551, bnuuy wrote:when I joined this game I didn't want any drama to happen, now it has and I'm feeling down
if y'all want to vote me out then be my guest tbh but that's at least why I haven't been engaged recently
I'll add that cassowary doesn't really feel like she did when I saw her as scum before so that's probably a good sign
This was literally a beetlegeus pop-in. Wagon happened and then bnuuy posted
in direct response to the wagon
.
If you're away from the game and then you have a wagon form on you as you're coming back, that's not beetlegeusing...
...But if you are posting only because there is a wagon on you and the entirety of your content is in direct response to that content? It absolutely IS.
Review how things transpired and you'll find yourself getting cold feet on the cold feet and realizing the original scumread was right.
In post 1619, bnuuy wrote:That’s one of very few slots that should know who I am already
Wait is the half who should know you, Dunnstral?
Because if the half who should know you is Dunnstral, then the style of your signature + it being Dunnstral who should know you + your posting style, would all point me towards you being someone who has hydra'd with Dunnstral reasonably recently.
And if you are that player then we should be turbo-limming you because this is 200% that player's scumgame.
But with the properties you'd expect of a shiny: distracting you from real scum and not actually being good.
In post 1629, catboi wrote:The excuses for bnuuy are pretty wild, they dropped some AtE and the wagon started to dissipate, it's not like that's anything cornered newbscum hasn't done before.
It's almost like scum have an investment in keeping bnuuy alive.
In post 1650, butterchurn wrote:I don't find that bnuuy's latest posts are out of the range of what I would expect them to do if they were scum here. The wagon feels like it fell apart a little quickly.
This, so much.
In post 1650, butterchurn wrote:This makes me feel like some of the people riding the wave of the wagon didn't genuinely want it to go through, and were just waiting for an excuse to jump back off.
Gee I wonder who that could be.
Could it perhaps be a slot that's so vocal that if it weren't for their spam we'd have a far more reasonably sized 111-page game? (I mean that's still a lot of pages but this is a Large, so at a pace of ~15 pages per day, 111 pages is actually an expected number. But there's one slot in particular that has added singlehandedly 30 pages to the game, pushing us to a more unmanageable amount.)
I wonder what that could mean.
I don't hold any homes of getting an FL elimination today, but FL is scum and so is bnuuy.
Well, Flavor Leaf is scum, but beyond that? The maximum is 2-3. If butterchurn scum as I suspect, that's +1, and if Klick IS scum (Klick's moved more and more north to me progressively so is north of null right now to me overall) that'd be the final +1, but everyone else on that wagon is town.
Norwee is as town as town gets;
catboi is as town as town gets;
Save the Dragons is as town as town gets.
I might've missed bnuuy votes but from the ones I saw, {StD, Klick, catboi, Flavor Leaf, Norwee, butterchurn}, STD/catboi/Norwee are all definitely town, I'm more and more thinking Klick town, so there's only two real scum candidates there.
I'd love to but I honestly don't think I have the energy to push FL today (this is both day phase and rl day).
He's scum, sure.
And I can explain why he's scum, sure.
I'd love to eliminate him because he's scum and he's literally posting in a method I would call the opposite of strategic lurking, so to speak, "strategic flooding": drowning out the entire town to make it so that his voice is disproportionately seen and listened to, to sway the town, drown out the good points, and leave only the weak points as remaining and visible and carried over long-term.
But while he's literally posting to make the town basically have no chance at winning, I don't think I can actually get the elimination there by pushing it. I want to, but I don't have the energy for it.
In post 1797, Toogeloo wrote:You realize you can tell if someone has looked at a PM you sent, right?
Well yes, that you can do.
But I wasn't saying you couldn't do that.
What you CAN'T do is tell if someone has looked at a PT you have granted them access to. Nobody can. I don't think even the administration has the tools to know a user has viewed a topic.
In post 1788, The Keeper wrote:So hands up who checks their Private Topics forum often without any particular reason.
That's the thing though.
This isn't "without any particular reason".
This is "Cephrir announced role PMs had gone out, it's universal that role PMs come with any PT access those role PMs give, scum get PT access when they have a role PM, so you can find out you're scum without opening your role PM". So all it'd take is momo strategically and deliberately not opening the role PM, checking PTs, seeing the scum PT, and nope'ing the fuck out without reading, as to attempt to avoid a moderator ban on him for strategic flaking. (The mods can punish someone for a trust tell who reads a scum role PM and then repeatedly replaces out. The mods cannot punish someone for a trust tell who repeatedly replaces out without having read the role PM.)
In post 1791, tictac wrote:momo might have used underhanded tactics and checked topics instead of the pm.
This is what I mean. momo is
exactly
the type of player to do precisely this. I would like to remind you that momo is the player who
proposed a plan for their scumbuddy to fake a real life emergency across multiple games
Post
Post #3539 (isolation #40) » Mon May 02, 2022 11:13 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 1829, butterchurn wrote:She also has been behind for most of the game so far, and if she were scum, she would need to start exerting some influence on the thread before town leaders take things in the correct direction.
Speaking from experience: catching up is the worst possible way to try and exert influence since catching up while behind decreases influence instead of increasing it.
In post 1809, butterchurn wrote:Maybe this is a discussion for elsewhere, but I'm not sure why people are allowed to just consistently replace out whenever they learn that they will be playing scum, if that is actually such a significant pattern that it's worth suspecting their replacement over.
They're not--it's considered a trust tell, and if the listmods are made aware of it, they will punish it. A player consistently replacing out as one alignment is, explicitly, a trust tell.
But momo, someone who has a demonstrated flagrant disregard for caring of the social norms/rules/etc.*, is exactly the type of person to have realized the workaround where you can't be punished for flaking out of a game you didn't pick up a role PM for, and weaponizing this.
(*My sense of moral decency obligates me to note that it is in fact fully possible momo has genuinely reformed, and knows how abhorrent that move was. If momo has genuinely reformed and truly is working to better their play to avoid doing things like the above, then I owe momo an apology for what amounts to badmouthing momo off of an old mistake that momo would genuinely regret. But I also feel the need to specify the 'if' there, and if momo hasn't genuinely reformed, well...)
In post 1826, butterchurn wrote: If I were scum, I would only be informed on the alignment of 3 other players, out of 22. And yet here you say that my reads look like they come from a perspective of having too much information involved in forming them. Unless you are talking about exactly 3 of my reads being based on too much information, I think this reason is fabricated.
Well, mostly, yes. About half of my scumreads are buddy-buddy to each other and antagonistic to the other half, and vice-versa. You included. So yes, you come from a perspective of too much information on 3 of your reads.
That having been said--only knowing the alignment of 3 players is more important than you think in multiball because the knowledge of who said 3 players are, can give you information on who isn't scum that you otherwise would be lacking.
To explain this, you can have a read on player A that is directly influenced by knowing player B is scum. That read on player A would be different without the knowledge player B is scum.
So while scum may only know the alignment of 3 players, they still have the ability to demonstrate TMI beyond their three scumbuddies.
Scum can demonstrate TMI by having formed one cohesive scumteam but
not
having formed TWO cohesive scumteams.
Scum can demonstrate TMI by having the mindset of knowing that a player cannot be a member of one scumteam which paints their view on that slot.
And you show all of those markers.
(By the way this is also why FL is scum. He's got one largely coherent scumteam. He does not have two.)
(Speaking of scumteams tho. I think that I probably could form two mostly coherent scumteams if I sat down for like five, ten minutes and thought about it and did some mental math factchecking. For instance, right now there's mental math of FL + Enchant + bnuuy + 1, maybe Malcom? And then mental math of MonkeyMan + Toogeloo + butterchurn + 1, but like. This is purely from memory, I might be getting the team distribution wrong.
I don't think the scumreads are wrong. I think all of those are right. I've just not put in the time to remember which scumreads are most likely to be scum with which players.)
Post
Post #3540 (isolation #41) » Mon May 02, 2022 11:17 pm
Postby mastina »
(Wait I think my mental math might be a bit off above, I think I might've had a thought of "Monkeyman and butterchurn are both scum, but on opposite teams" at some point?
FL and Enchant are hard-bound together; those two are always scum together.
FL and bnuuy are like 95% scum together.
So the FL scumteam has +1 from {MonkeyMan, Toogeloo, butterchurn, Malcom}, and the other 3 are scum together.
Like I said, I'm pretty sure I could figure out the team distribution if I thought about it more and did a little cross-checking but like. Even not bothering to look at FL's iso it's still a lot of work looking at all of their isos to check my mental math here.)
I've not dipped from the game, y'all are just spammy fucks.
I'm averaging over 4 posts per day. Over 4 posts, per 24 hours.
I've also, very clearly, been actively producing content every time I've been around with zero prod dodging. I really don't want to be spending as much time as I am on this game as-is (I haven't checked any mafiascum thread outside of this thread since it started--legit have neglected the entirety of the site for seven days), but as a matter of fact I AM spending that much time on this game.
I've not played League or TFT since this game began (meaning I've missed a solid week's worth of TFT rewards and missed out on my one-ranked-game-of-League-per-week this week), similarly out of neglecting everything for this game.
Weeks contain 168 hours within them; for this game, I've spent about 14-28 on this game. I'm far from dipping. You're just hyperposting.
In post 1899, MalcolmTucker wrote:While we're on Mastina, reading through their ISO and this feels like a really weak town read. Only no3 approaches any sort of proper detail or goes into specifics at all.
While the read I gave on Titus there would be weak if it was given on the current page, it was in fact not given on the current page. The post you are quoting was on page 18--literally over a hundred pages ago, still well within what in many ways was the RVS.
My read was plenty strong for that time period in the game.
This is also quite egregiously ignoring how that is not the reason I am townreading the slot.
I mentioned Titus's hard-townslip as hard-clearing them and how this is transparently Mala playing as town, and those are the main backing of the read. That what I said there still holds true of Titus's posting later is just icing on the cake.
Post
Post #3546 (isolation #43) » Mon May 02, 2022 11:43 pm
Postby mastina »
Hot take:
The ultimate proof that Norwee is town this game rather than scum in multiball, is that if Norwee was scum Norwee would be playing better than Norwee is playing in this game.
(For the record. When I say that Norwee is town because Norwee as scum would be better, what I mean by this is that Norwee as scum would be obvious to me and that Norwee as scum in multiball I'd expect to be more in line with my own. Norwee not being obvscum and Norwee having thoughts not in line with my own = Norwee as good as conftown.)
Post
Post #3552 (isolation #46) » Tue May 03, 2022 12:04 am
Postby mastina »
In post 3549, Wallflower wrote:It would seem to me that you have either read the game already, or have decided on your reads before reading the game, no?
????
My reads have come from reading the game, but that does not mean I have read all of the game.
I have been very clear about what I have, and have not, read.
Everything I am mentioning in my catch-up posting, I have read.
Everything I am responding to in real time, like this post right now, I have read, obviously.
Beyond the above, there are some things that I, offline, skimmed--posts somewhere in the 90s range, and more recently, posts in the ~120-130ish range. But these were both offline, and skims, and not proper reads. I need to read them properly and then give content on them properly.
I don't see how this is hard to understand?
I skimread catboi posts in the ~90s range that made my existing townread on catboi elevate from strong town to conftown levels.
But I am not at the 90s range in my proper catchup/readthrough so I'm not quoting it because I've not read-read it.
Post
Post #3559 (isolation #47) » Tue May 03, 2022 12:50 am
Postby mastina »
In post 2192, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Neither player is too interested in the game. Inactive, lazy takes and easy shades. Etc.
This argument is shit and you should feel shit for making it.
Especially since both Titus and Malakittens are far less active these days.
Mala tends to post every 2-4 days.
Titus, every 2-3.
I can't speak for if that is actually alignment indicative though because the above? Were as town. So either their "inactivity" is nai or their "inactivity" is town-indicative. And I put quotes around "inactivity" because they're not
really
inactive.
They have nearly 200 posts, discarding Titus's off-hydra posts.
That ain't inactive. That's more active than me, and I am not inactive either.
In post 2197, catboi wrote:Yeah. I don't think you're scum, but coming in with an outrageously anti-consensus take on a player I feel is pretty townie is more likely to come from town mastina, where as scum her reads are going to hew closer to consensus and generally seem to make more sense. The opinions she's coming in with feel confidently her own, don't agree with the read on you, but I believe she believes it.
This is the start of where my strong catboi townread comes from.
The defense of me lacks a scum agenda, and more than that, the opinion formed is one of incredible nuance. Yes, catboi could be scum making a sincere non-TMI townread on me, but that's why this is only the start.
In post 1828, Flavor Leaf wrote:There’s definitely scum in the people that are defending/town reading Catboi. At least 1, even if Catboi ends up being town
I'm fairly certain there's much more than 3 people defending me, so it's not like they can all be my partners. I wouldn't doubt that there's some scum defending me, just by sheer amount of numbers and the fact that not every scum is going to want to push an elim, especially if they think I'm town, but this is a very vague accusation. It's a broad brush stroke that avoids getting into specifics about who might be scum to instead blanket discredit the people defending me.
This is where it really began to take off though because the nuance of this point is VERY much a nuanced thought that I would think to be town-indicative for catboi. I admit; I've never actually seen catboi's scumgame so I don't know what catboi's scumgame is in spite of catboi being a double-DC.
But the nuance to this thought looks like something that I don't think scum can fake. Yes, multiball, but not like this, not even in multiball. This sort of developed thought is the kind that to me I just don't see how scum makes it at all.
Another contributing factor is catboi beginning to vibe with my reads, between the bnuuy push and the FL -reaction to, going to FL's posting. Yet in spite of his reads having some similarity to mine, and in spite of his defense of me, he is very clearly not sucking up to me. He's townreading players I am scumreading and very clear that he thinks my read on those players is wrong, but he is also developing his own reads which have some overlap with mine, in ways I consider town-indicative.
His conversation with Norwee bled town with the way he was engaging Norwee.
There is also the fact that catboi is showing an unusually nuanced, refined view of my play. He's hitting a lot of the right points on what my play is, in a way that I don't think is scum. Like, scum defending me I would expect to make defenses that I know to be wrong. But town defending me typically are more "in the zone" of knowing what is actually town/scum/etc. of me.
catboi and Well Done have vibed with me in similar ways and catboi's vibe with Well Done also resonates as being town. catboi is being incredibly active, invested, thoughtful, and nuanced, while also having appropriate levels of being reserved, explaining why he feels the way he does on every slot. 2221 is dead on the money for mirroring my own thoughts on FL.
In post 2225, catboi wrote:Boys you gotta get some better scumreads because I'm town, Menalque is very likely town, and I think Malcolm is too
I loved this reachout and while I disagree with Malcolm being town, that's more proof of this being town. catboi's reachout to vibe with Well Done was incredibly town here where he was stating what is, by and large: frankly, the truth.
In post 2227, catboi wrote:Okay Well Done is super obviously town here, for a very simple reason: Dunn doesn't have the balls to push Flavor Leaf day 1 as scum. He plays scum like a background character, mays easy votes, tries to avoid drawing attention to himself. Here he's doing the exact opposite of that and drawing negative attention from the most active player in the game. It's a million miles outside his scum range.
This was the real clincher though. This was something that I just don't see catboi saying as scum here, especially given multiball.
I am pretty sure this is stealing someone else's argument, but a lot of catboi's thoughts are framed from a non-multiball perspective where catboi is giving reads and not taking into account it being multiball--this is a huge towntell because it indicates a town player not tainted by a scum alignment. Yes, catboi knows it's a multiball game, but catboi's takes often have the mentality of a singleball game in spite of the knowledge of multiball, which is a subconscious think that indicates town to me.
The Toogeloo callout in 2232 was good, too. 2239 was great. I agree with 2242.
In post 2247, catboi wrote:I think that Flavor Leaf's reaction to getting scumread by Well Done fucking sucks. The progression from scum reading them -> calling them wrong town -> getting tilted at them and calling them liock scum is super sketchy. It doesn't look like a genuine evaluation but scum shifting through different angles trying to get the heat off them. It's a very Prism-esque progression, it just feels very fake. The attacks read more like playing offense to play defense because he's really bothered by the scumread on him. I would think that if he had truly gotten frustrated with Well Done and thought they were town just dumbly tunneled on him, he'd just back off and stop engaging with them, but instead he keeps going and 180s. The only reason I can see for this happening is because he's
really
bothered by their scumread on him and wants to discredit it. There's not even really a possibility he gets yeeted Day 1, he just wants to stamp out all opposition to him.
This basically is a summary of why FL is scum this game in a way that I don't think scum can do. It's the same insight Pooky gave, it's the insight I would give, and catboi giving it is proof of him being town.
His readslist in 2261 is largely mirrored to mine. He has precisely 3 townreads that I do not and 3 scumreads I do not, but swapping those would result in a near-identical readslist. The similarity and yet convergence is hella town.
For the record, not really interested in quoting Well Done's walls because they be walls and I don't feel like editing them down to be more readable when quoting, but Well Done is a stronger townread and their case on FL is valid. Just sayin'.
Also obligatory reminder that Enchant is scum, too.
Bottom of 92, and I've no choice but to go to bed. Both because nearly 5 am and also because it is literally painful to keep my eyes open. Every second my eyes aren't closed they're hurting so I NEED sleep right now, sorry. I got out
most
of what I read from catboi to make him so town but not all of it.
In post 4718, MonkeyMan576 wrote:I think you’re trying to discredit me and it won’t work. Funny how you always show up when there are votes on you.
I WAS BUSY WITH WORK YOU FUCKING PRICK
(Also this. I work like 6 hours a day five days a week and then have an hour drive both ways so I have 8 hours of work plus ~1-2 hours both before and after so like. ~8 hours of sleep, ~12 hours of work, that leaves me with only ~4 hours of free time per day total.)
Post
Post #5921 (isolation #50) » Sat May 07, 2022 5:53 pm
Postby mastina »
(Read everything in the day phase so far but fuck going through to respond to it all I'm not falling behind again by trying that)
VOTE: Flavor Leaf
-Still scum,
-Still alive,
-I don't care about FL's claim, the prior to are more important,
-He has a wagon on him
-{MegAzumarill, Nashville Dreams, SCP, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque} are all town so the wagons on them suck.
So this is my preference.
Would also vote {bnuuy, Enchant, butterchurn, Monkeyman, Malcolm Tucker},
maybe
cassowary.
Butyeah,
FL >>>>> bnuuy
>
Monkeyman
>
Enchant = Malcolm Tucker = butterchurn >>> cassowary >>>>> slots y'all are being stupid for wagoning because they're town
In terms of eliminations here. (I admit that Klick
could
be a werewolf, but being a mason + vibing with Klick's reads yesterday make me think the masonry is all town.)
Post
Post #6328 (isolation #51) » Mon May 09, 2022 10:12 pm
Postby mastina »
(Ngl I don't know what to do right now. I might actually resume my catchup, since:
-I am not seeing any super-duper important things to respond to,
-My preferred wagon of FL is still the leading wagon,
-I am struggling to think of things to post,
-The game is slow enough that my catchup style actually might work,
-It could help break players who have stagnated, out of their stagnation.
In post 6328, mastina wrote:(Ngl I don't know what to do right now. I might actually resume my catchup, since:
-I am not seeing any super-duper important things to respond to,
-My preferred wagon of FL is still the leading wagon,
-I am struggling to think of things to post,
-The game is slow enough that my catchup style actually might work,
-It could help break players who have stagnated, out of their stagnation.
But, will be "done as I can", since:
V/LA from May 10th - May 20th
due to work.)
How in the world can you still favor an FL elimination given his accuracy, claim, and guaranteed not bussing?
Oh, yes, FL was accurate on a scumread on a werewolf when via being a Monk, he couldn't be a Werewolf.
Pardon my lack of confidence in FLs townness.
We knew from D1 that FL couldn't be a Werewolf, and his accuracy was in a single player being a werewolf, the faction he already couldn't be.
I would be perfectly fine with being vigged, for the record, but I flat-out just don't believe that FL is a town vig. He's either mafia fakeclaiming or a legit gated mafia vig.
I'm always biding time, because I always want to say everything that I want to, which real life gets in the way of.
The longer a day goes, the more time I have to say the things that I want to say, so long as I have the appropriate mental prompts for it.
Basically,
-I always have things that I want to say,
-I am incredibly busy in real life,
I have other online obligations,
-And even on-site, I am prone to having the wrong mindset for saying the things that I want to say, so:
-The longer a day goes, the higher the chances are that I get to say what I want to say.
So, yes, I am biding my time, because I am ALWAYS biding my time.
I know you find FL as the better elimination but I find the only reason mastina would stall to buy time is to give CSF more time. She (if she has a role) would still be able to act today. I don't recall mastina stating a read on CSF.
Iso's are one hell of a neat invention, it'd be a shame for you to not use them.
My iso is one of the shortest in the game, as those who keep saying that I'm a lurker keep pointing out. (I'm not lurking, I'm not inactive, y'all are just hyperposters. And I'm not. My average posts per day is 3 per day--and you can fuck off if you think that posting THREE TIMES PER DAY is lurking; in any SANE game, it very much is not.)
What I mean by that, is, my iso is short enough to be read in less than 5 minutes.
I'm phoneposting, so I can't quote the relevant posts, but they really aren't that hard to find, especially with the magic of the function known as "Control-F". (Side-note, those who are saying that my posts don't have content are straight up lying their asses off and--correctly--bargaining on players being too lazy to check their claims, just assuming that what they said was true. The proof that my posts are filled with content is readily apparent upon actually iso'ing me, but y'all are too lazy to actually do so. But I digress. )
CSF is a townread, and nothing today has weakened that read. Quite the opposite, in fact.
I just find mastina's low activity suspicious in general.
My activity is, objectively: not low. Not in posts per day (dead serious, if you math it out--which I did--it comes out to over 3 posts per 24 hours, and is actually even closer to 4 per day), and not in content (almost every post of mine contains content which was, well: content).
But again, players see raw numbers of pages, posts, etc. And blindly make claims that are provably false, because of sheer laziness and/ or scumminess.
Don't believe me?
Well you can either wait for me to post the math and give iso highlights, or if you don't wanna wait, do the math yourself (don't forget to subtract 48 hours due to the night phase) and the iso yourself to see for yourself that I actually AM actively here, playing, and contributing IN SPITE OF MY IOBLIGATIONS.
I literally am making time for this game at almost every opportunity that I can.
Post
Post #6450 (isolation #57) » Tue May 10, 2022 2:55 pm
Postby mastina »
In post 6354, Nashville Dreams wrote:That's why I said semi far. It's impossible to read her engagement but it can still undeniably ping. I'm reading her by her FL read but still can't deny but I hope the lack of activity doesn't factor. People can and frequently do consider inadmissible evidence.
jjh developed a rather fine trick to track my engagement:
My blog reflects my engagement in most aspects of my life, mafia included.
No blog? No online life.
Minimal blog? Probably Minimal online life.
You'd have to ask him for his exact methodology, but it's definitely accurate, in my experience with his usage of the technique.
In post 5921, mastina wrote:(Read everything in the day phase so far but fuck going through to respond to it all I'm not falling behind again by trying that)
VOTE: Flavor Leaf
-Still scum,
-Still alive,
-I don't care about FL's claim, the prior to are more important,
-He has a wagon on him
-{MegAzumarill, Nashville Dreams, SCP, Cat Scratch Fever, Menalque} are all town so the wagons on them suck.
So this is my preference.
Would also vote {bnuuy, Enchant, butterchurn, Monkeyman, Malcolm Tucker},
maybe
cassowary.
Butyeah,
FL >>>>> bnuuy
>
Monkeyman
>
Enchant = Malcolm Tucker = butterchurn >>> cassowary >>>>> slots y'all are being stupid for wagoning because they're town
In terms of eliminations here. (I admit that Klick
could
be a werewolf, but being a mason + vibing with Klick's reads yesterday make me think the masonry is all town.)
These are mastina's latest reads.
She has CSF town. Nero has CSF scum.
She has FL scum. Nero has FL town.
She has Meg town. Nero has Meg scum.
She has Klick town. Nero has Klick scum.
She has Melanque town. Nero appears to FoS Melanque.
mastina doesn't mention Nero in her wall at all.
Players' competency levels change, and my opinion of players is fluid, also changing.
A Nero Cain of 6-8 years ago having reads opposite of mine would instantly make me scumread him since his whole shtick was being accurate but uncharasmatic.
These days though, frankly, I'd scumread Nero if his reads were too good.
If Nero Cain thinks that he's as good a scumhuntwr now as he was 6-8 years ago, he's delusional. Because in my experience with him in the last 4 years, his reads have been terrible. He's not as good as he used to be and is notably much worse.
So his terrible reads is a reason why I still townread the slot.
-reaction to, going 
