Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Menalque]

knowing how gamma is capable of playing scum, either we're fucked or we aren't fucked

scintillating analysis

(intended in a joke-y sarcastic way, not a mean sarcastic way)

[Menalque]

I still think dunn is town

[Menalque]

I guess maybe wolf

[Menalque]

I've been known to, from time to time

[Menalque]

So there are two people voting me now who absolutely refuse to explain why they think I am scum

it’s almost as if there are 8 players here who didn’t get a town role PM

[Menalque]

Man I’m so disappointed I didn’t get to roll wolf this game

[Menalque]

Klick do you wanna start a new faction with me where we win if we manage to make the game fun again?

[Menalque]

mena's a wolf

did you miss the part where I said I WISH

[Menalque]

does it count as playing against wincon to campaign for votes on myself

probably right

[Menalque]

or hell i'll do menalque

I beg of you
It will uh

Help clarify the gamestate once I flip town? Sure, let’s go with that

[Menalque]

Awoooooo

[Menalque]

Klick are you joining me in my new faction

[Menalque]

I mean apparently everyone thinks I’m a wolf anyway, is there a reason to

not

just lim me when you’re unlikely to get more out of me than this

[Menalque]

because, if this is not already abundantly clear, I’m no longer enjoying the game and haven’t been for ages

my slot is going to be permanently compromised if it lives on for associations with catboi

and aside from my general anti-rep attitude, I don’t think it’s fair to ask anyone to rep into a slot that’s widely scumread even without how shitty replacements are in general

[Menalque]

I mean apparently everyone thinks I’m a wolf anyway, is there a reason to

not

just lim me when you’re unlikely to get more out of me than this

I don't particularly. I didn't really get the impression that everyone thought that either.

I could be wrong, but every time I’ve stuck my head briefly into thread in the last few days I think I’ve seen someone calling me a wolf shortly before or shortly after I posted

[Menalque]

Anyway, I’m off to do bjj-nerd-shit so I’ll leave y’all to the mafia-nerd-shit for now

[Menalque]

I have info that a player here is not a werewolf

[Menalque]

I have info that a player here is not a werewolf

is it someone who's not already a monk this time?

yes lol

idk if they want me to out it tho so holding off for now

[Menalque]

Okay I feel I should say that CSF is confirmed not wolf

[Menalque]

Her*

[Menalque]

But yes

[Menalque]

I didn't check CSF, I got friendly neighboured by her

[Menalque]

MonkeyMan576
Flavor Leaf
SCP 682
Nashville Dreams
Klick
bnuuy
cassowary
Nero Cain
Menalque
Save The Dragons
Sword of Ducks

Cat Scratch Fever
MegAzumarill
tictac
The Keeper
Dunnstral

wait when did I go into town for you

[Menalque]

VOTE: SCP

[Menalque]

y out CSF though?

they were getting voted when I originally said and SCP implied I was checking them in their posts yesterday

[Menalque]

Not conftown, conf notWW

[Menalque]

And catboi and menalque soft defended eachother

Uh excuse me I think you’ll find I hard defended him

[Menalque]

If the consensus is that I’m going to be limmed ~at some point~ can I just be today so I don’t have to worry about checking in here

[Menalque]

I have no idea who is scum or town atp anyway so I’m not gonna be much help

[Menalque]

you aren't even being wagoned...what's with the

AtE

?

I’m very unemotional rn and the last two posts should be read in as flat a tone as possible

@Menalque you come across as someone who doesn't want to implicate their scum buddies.

That’s interesting given that I’ve never been worried about that in any scum game I’ve ever played and creating bad associatives is one of the better parts of my scumgame

[Menalque]

Also I thought I was being wagoned?

[Menalque]

You must have some thoughts on the game.

I think

Town seems to be doing fine without my contributions

Does that work?

[Menalque]

I guess mostly I think I’ll have more fun hanging out in the dead thread with catboi than in the main one here

[Menalque]

And I refuse to undergo the shitty side of mafia if I am not at least having fun

Which sure, is very much related to me, but still

[Menalque]

VOTE: SoD

[Menalque]

How about I just sheep you nero

[Menalque]

Have I not made it very clear that I’m okay with that

[Menalque]

And I refuse to undergo the shitty side of mafia if I am not at least having fun

Which sure, is very much related to me, but still

It’s hard to have fun if you don’t try

[Menalque]

Pretty sure I didn’t yell anywhere actually

Complained a lot to get toog hammered, sure

I’m not 100% sure why it’s not fun either, but probably bc there’s nobody I’m clicking with or bouncing off or anything that’s making me want to get into the game

[Menalque]

VOTE: SoD

[Menalque]

Whats dunn at anyway?

[Menalque]

VOTE: dunn

[Menalque]

VOTE: dunn

Point of note Menalque wouldn’t vote Klick but would vote Dunn. As an FYI for later

actually went back and forth on voting dunn too bc I TR the slot on D1 but I was v wrong on D1 so I'm just sheeping Nero

still think klick is town or that he's got me super pocketed, but if it's the latter you guys prob don't need my vote to kill him sooo

[Menalque]

Cass this is super wrong in so many ways but I can see how someone could think it if, and I really don’t mean to be insulting here because I think a lot of people look at the game this way, myself included, a lot of the time, but anyway, if they have a very surface level view of what’s going on and don’t think that I would be able to foresee that (1) catboi dying is quite likely and (2) how I’m liable to look after that and (3) that even if I’m scum, I’ve been limmed enough times as town for bad optics that I would know that just avoiding said bad optics by bussing is a MUCH easier path

[Menalque]

Also if I’m defending a buddy, I don’t say “well I don’t think they’re town or scum really so I’m not voting them”

I hard defend them if I defend them, and I don’t see how I did that

[Menalque]

mena who is actually objectively obviously scum

I would like you to give me a patented "big oof" at start of D4 if you manage to get me flipped today

[Menalque]

mena could still be scum but at least he has the decency to vote

gotcha back buddy

[Menalque]

voting for masons seems dumb when they could still get checked for wolves

[Menalque]

My entire PoE on Cass

hey, not your entire PoE my dude

[Menalque]

it's what the "a" in "mena" stands for

[Menalque]

I really hope you will reconsider a lot of the wrong assumptions you're making once I flip town and also that you'll stop trying to meta-read me for when I'm just not motivated to play

[Menalque]

Paranoid me says FL+Titus/Dunn

maybe, but this seems like possibe-not-super-likely territory

let's just clean through the slots that will always be in question and then you can go to war later if needed

for now it's like me/dunn/apparently klick/ducks/apparently meg-although-isn't-she-also-a-mason-which-seems-like-a-misplay that all need to die

[Menalque]

dunn is town

why? it seems unlikely to me we'd have two hirsute and idk why they'd (the hydra) claim that if they're just VT vs wolf

[Menalque]

idk what we mean by valid -- as in acceptable to town or acceptable mechanically?

[Menalque]

why would he not be an acceptable target mechanically

that makes like no sense

[Menalque]

why are we back at tictac again, I thought they were cleared

VOTE: cass

[Menalque]

Okay those are actually v good points

VOTE: FL

[Menalque]

How did you bait the wolves into shooting FL?

[Menalque]

Also, “wolves shot FL last night” is both a lot less convincing to me and a lot less knowable than “enchant was mafia, FL said he would shoot mastina, enchant chose not to prevent that happening” all of which is verifiable

[Menalque]

Could it just be a horrendous misplay? Sure, maybe, but to quote a phrase from a favourite fictional PI, “I don’t believe in coincidences”

[Menalque]

Also if [redacted] is an ongoing games thing can we just stop

If it isn’t idk why y’all are using [redacted] and not just saying whatever thing it is

[Menalque]

Oh wait [redacted] is a mech thing

Okay I’m dumb

[Menalque]

Nah I am good.

You and Tic tac are the only ones demanding an explanation.

You read like bitter scum.

I am okay holding out unless town asks for it.

You can kill me.

I also want an explanation but you think I'm scum too
Three more ppl ask for an explanation pls

I would like one too but apparently I'm scum as well lol

[Menalque]

I have no idea where wolves are but I can quite easily believe math/FL as the final 2 maf

[Menalque]

Melanque

Spoiler: Titus

[Menalque]

I can do Cass sure

VOTE: cass

[Menalque]

I'm not gonna lie I wasn't paying enough attention yesterday to be sure but I didn't get the impression that Nashville wanted me dead particularly badly yesterday

so the whole "working with scum reads" thing seems a bit overblown

[Menalque]

NKA is wrong far more often than it's right

I'd even take VCA > NKA

now if you wanna give us something mechanical that's different but "just trust me, NKA supports this, more info later" isn't really a line I'm buying into, sorry

[Menalque]

You were in my lim list but not as far down as others

right, but therefore it still doesn't really make sense to me that "working with scum reads" is such a big objection esp when I'm trying to rally support for something

like that only really makes sense as a reason for you to be susp for working with me if you spent the whole of yesterday going "KILL MENA, MENA IS SCUM, KILL HIM NOW" only to switch to be working with me today

like, if Cass isn't the lim today I would find it weird for you to be working alongside Cass tomorrow mech stuff notwithstanding

[Menalque]

why am I scum, math? SCP flip?

[Menalque]

why am I scum, math? SCP flip?

Because you’re not like the game I was scum in

You were all leadery

Here you were dejected when two scum died

Now you have a Titus to sheep you’re excited

Your excitement matches how well your team is doing.

do you mean the TM game from 2021?

[Menalque]

Going to be obnoxious until I get my way

please don't

[Menalque]

Much more likely that wolves just shot SCP though lmao

Much more likely that wolves just shot SCP though lmao

It literally isn’t.

Much more likely that wolves just shot SCP though lmao

It literally isn’t.

It literally is.

Much more likely that wolves just shot SCP though lmao

It literally isn’t.

It literally is.

No it isn’t.

Yes it is

scintillating

[Menalque]

(again I'm worried that might come across as me being a dick but I just found it funny to read)

[Menalque]

klick gets it

I mean it's really hard to argue against old meta but I used to care a lot more and I think it made me a lot less pleasant to play with (NB: I also had more free time)

now I play when I'm having fun and have a bit of time -- if you want to sort me by meta at least look at Ktane where I was very much like here until like d4/d5 or something and then posted about 300 times in a day trying to get the last scum limmed

[Menalque]

I think cleric is doctor but only against wolf kills, if I understand correctly

[Menalque]

ah, math, you are remembering to take into account that each scum team can only kill 2/3 nights, right?

but uh

yeah, this seems kinda important

[Menalque]

what does an occultist do?

[Menalque]

ah, math, you are remembering to take into account that each scum team can only kill 2/3 nights, right?

but uh

yeah, this seems kinda important

Scum both no killed N1

idk how you can be this confident in this

[Menalque]

no time today but am VT

[Menalque]

Cass this is super wrong in so many ways but I can see how someone could think it if, and I really don’t mean to be insulting here because I think a lot of people look at the game this way, myself included, a lot of the time, but anyway, if they have a very surface level view of what’s going on and don’t think that I would be able to foresee that (1) catboi dying is quite likely and (2) how I’m liable to look after that and (3) that even if I’m scum, I’ve been limmed enough times as town for bad optics that I would know that just avoiding said bad optics by bussing is a MUCH easier path

i mean, i just don't believe you - it's not that i think you defended catboi just because you were partners or whatever, but i don't buy this. 'i would have known acting this way would look suspicious so i wouldn't have done it that way if i were scum' is just WIFOM - maybe you are scum and knew this and intended on taking refuge in audacity and using this defense if catboi died! who knows

[snip]

saying "I just don't believe you" is incredibly unconvincing when there are numerous games (off the top of my head in like 2 seconds -- Ktane, Secrets of the Anuket Topaz, but I could find more/examples where it wasn't directly something that happened to me) of me or others being limmed for defending scum while being town

to say I wouldn't do that if I were scum is not "just WIFOM"

to believe it you need to believe that either:
(1) I am aware of how I look to the thread and am not taking actions to try and affect that as scum
or
(2) that I am unaware of how I look and how my actions are likely to make me look

I think it is unconvincing that you believe either of these things. It is implausible to believe that I, as scum, choose to deliberately look bad, because that would be close to me simply throwing. It is slightly more plausible, but still very much not-plausible-when-it-comes-down-to-it to think I am not aware of how I'm going to look when, as mentioned above, I've been mislimmed as town for defending scum multiple times

if you don't think I'm scum for being partners with catboi, then I have no idea why you think I'm scum at all, at least not vs any other given slot that's been largely inactive this game, and given your own lack of content throughout (whereas mine has only been since I was ass backward D1) I would expect town!you to have some understanding of the "not producing =/= scum" concept

[Menalque]

CSF scum too btw

[Menalque]

Don’t really mind getting flipped, but after I green klick/tictac (and the third mason who I keep forgetting) are off the table until all the maf are dead mmkay

Also CSF is scum

[Menalque]

And everyone is gonna forget this so I’m mostly saying it for postgame bragging rights but while I’m back to being lost on night actions, if it ever hits ELO and FL is still alive, you always kill him and you don’t associative hunt his ISO once he’s dead because it’s a trap

[Menalque]

Why is everyone ignoring CSF scum is my question

[Menalque]

I’d also support limming either/both of FL/math just to not have their back and forth take up another 20 pages of thread that nobody is going to read

[Menalque]

begged ppl to hammer Toog

[Menalque]

Oh wait FL is a monk, I’d kill math tho

[Menalque]

CSF is an honorary monk, but could still be mafia.

Eh

Like actually claimed or what or is this just you not wanting to lim CSF

[Menalque]

VCA almost as bad as NKA

[Menalque]

Man I wish koba hadn’t died even if they can’t read me for shit

[Menalque]

We all know I am dying tonight

[Menalque]

CSF is an honorary monk, but could still be mafia.

Eh

Like actually claimed or what or is this just you not wanting to lim CSF

Didn’t you get the message that they aren’t a wolf yesterday?

I got it today.

Oh lmao yes I did, I forgot

[Menalque]

I wish bets weren’t OOG influence:(

[Menalque]

Both of your mech is terrible, it’s okay

[Menalque]

Do you both realise that nobody else is reading your posts about what happened at night and that all it’s doing is killing the game

[Menalque]

[Menalque]

Fixed

[Menalque]

Nero cares but I can’t talk to him because you keep spamming you don’t care

I’ve made like 15 posts today lol, if you’re going to attack me at least try to use something that makes sense

[Menalque]

So my only option is louder which fuels your point

Respectfully, your other option is to stfu and allow for the possibility that people aren’t morons and will manage to reach the conclusion you want on their own if it’s correct once they have a chance to think about it or if they have any desire to play the game

Pedit: also i literally have been saying repeatedly that CSF is scum and that I’d be down to kill cass

[Menalque]

This is not a game where it’s possible to push people anyway

[Menalque]

And almost all of them are negative bullshit about me posting FL scum

This is also just a blatant lie lol

[Menalque]

It will be so disappointing if town win this game smh

[Menalque]

It will be so disappointing if town win this game smh

It will be disappointing if we lose

Because it shows friendship > any case or actually talking

And people don’t elim their friends

Nah, it’ll be because people continuously undervalue gamestate health, and either you/FL are scum winning in the most boring way possible by making half the game not give a shit or want to play, but because they’re not sure if you’re scum/don’t wanna deal with it they won’t just policy one/both of you to make it stop

Or you’re town who are unable to see that you’re killing the game for most of the other town/allowing scum to slide by by drawing all the oxygen into soemthing that basically nobody gives a shit about at this point

It is incredibly annoying and disappointing simultaneously, and either way is an absolute indictment of the town play this game, where if said town somehow wins it will almost undoubtedly be due to a couple of good PR shots or blind dumb luck

But okay, I’ve said my piece and I’m not interested in contributing further to the problem so imma go smoke a fat bowl and buy some sandals

Have a good Friday night y’all

[Menalque]

VOTE: math

Happy to go back to Cass if this hasn’t taken off by the next time I’m here

[Menalque]

Man I am killing it with the pagetop game atm

[Menalque]

VOTE: cass

[Menalque]

Cat Scratch Fever has fled town. They were a..

I fuckin told you homie, I fuckin called it

[Menalque]

VOTE: papa leaf let's get this show on the road

[Menalque]

oof we only have like 2 more miselims

[Menalque]

what if we just lim both of you if FL reds and go from there

[Menalque]

mena can only be wolf atp I think

awooooooooo

[Menalque]

math keeps making a lot of convenient assumptions about NK shit and it's giving me heebies

like Meg had claimed -- therefore if math is wolf, he could just... kill meg directly and then use that to claim that she died on him

not sure I like tictac immediately following him on that either but masons are left alone until no maf left

[Menalque]

town:
Nero
Klick

town?
ND

town??
StD

wolves in here?
Sword of Ducks
The Keeper
bnuuy
tictac
MathBlade

maf?
FL

[Menalque]

also this is why having a 400 page game is a terrible fucking idea

bc I'm sure as shit not gonna wade through D1 to try and draw reads off what was going on around catboi when there's that much shit in there, nor on other days

so I'm kinda just rolling with where I'm at. maybe I reread some ISOs if needed

[Menalque]

yo bnuuy what are your reads anyhow?

[Menalque]

Menalque looks sus AF

[Menalque]

yo bnuuy what are your reads anyhow?

math town
klick town by extension
nero probtown
titus, flavor could be scum
StD idk
ducks I wanna believe is town but he was v shady yday
keeper idk
tictac nullish
you nullscum

I was intending to do the thing I did in radio buzz day 3 when another wolf flipped but I think as things stand I might be able to solve for wolves anyway and since there's 1 mafia remaining this feels like the peak time to attempt it

main questions are why am I nullscum, why is math town, what did ducks do that was so shady yesterday?

[Menalque]

can you tell me why math!wolf wouldn't have an interest in holding back on that/wouldn't feel comfortable bluffing about how his flip would solve the game?

[Menalque]

like, you're not right on me but I can see how you get there
ducks, sure, makes sense with the other stuff

the math bit is what I'm not sure on

[Menalque]

you can feel all you want brother

[Menalque]

that is profoundly unhelpful but thanks for responding

[Menalque]

I'm uncomfortable with the way he's trying to steer the game when it's been based on bad logic at times and just seems lazy or like omgus or like it's lacking depth, no offence

for instance: math thinks that potentially all scum were on cass. I guess that's not impossible, but wolves don't really need to be on there if you think about it for a sec -- wolves would like cass dead as claimed wolf protective, that's true. but cass was also really pretty mislimmable, and is in the same vein as me imo (i.e. someone who is a good endgame mislim for them). so I'm not really sure that scum *do* all pile on there when wolves would probably rather see a maf lim imo

that being said, cass flipping backup cleric does make me think that he's more likely to be town? and I'd lowkey forgotten that

also his read on me being based on outdated meta and the fact that it's seemed pretty just "lock this on and then forget about it, but be super consistent but never really push him" also rubs me wrong. like math has always had me as wolf but not sure he's ever

really

tried to kill me, and again, scum need a slot who they can get flipped in endgame and I'm like reasonably confident that I'm either the primary or the secondary target for that, hence math's approach to my slot feels wolf motivated

[Menalque]

I haven't been reading closely enough to break it down in a much clearer way, but that's what's been bothering me, and it also seems like math is very interested in controlling the game by eliminating players who could interfere with that

now FL is quite likely to be maf here imo, but math has an interest in limming like FL/ND/me, all of whom are people that, if gone, basically let him dictate the game narrative of what happened and when and why, because I'm not sure anyone else here is both (1) willing and able to oppose him if needed and/or (2) not already TRing him and therefore less likely to be paying attention to him if he's manipulating the narrative

[Menalque]

overall writing it down I do feel kind of better about the slot and think I'm maybe a bit annoyed with his laziness on me tho, so I need to take that into consideration

[Menalque]

prodge

did we get any closer to killing FL?

[Menalque]

FL doesn’t make sense as a wolf because monkery

FL doesn't make sense as a wolf after D1 fam

[Menalque]

atp it's like

FL = maf or town
StD = maf or town
tictac = wolf or town
klick = wolf or town
math = wolf or town
mena = wolf or town

nero = town

SoD = any
keeper = any
ND = any
bnuuy = any

unless I'm missing or forgetting anything

[Menalque]

fmpov we need to kill the final maf to keep NKs under control or else we prob just lose

which again, I think would be fully deserved and while I'm trying to solve in my heart of hearts I sorta hope that wolves win this, but given that I am playing to my wincon despite Feelings, reducing possible NKs by 1 seems v important

the case for FL seems good and I think the point about enchant not limming a threatened vig is compelling outside of trying to figure out NAs and that's mostly what I'm voting based on

[Menalque]

I'm not going strictly off mech like you are -- I think it makes like no sense for my like only meaningful take on the game to have been Cass!scum and CSF!scum if I'm the final two maf with CSF

I also don't think I claim to have been targeted by my buddy CSF to get the wolf clear thing? idk, it's just not long term thinking

sure yadda yadda bussing but in that case I go a lot harder on the CSF thing, what I did does basically nothing to help clear me and I don't need to be cleared from maf as the speculation since D2 has been that I'm wolf

[Menalque]

shitarded

can we not

[Menalque]

the most important question here Nero, is not "is math scum?" but "is FL scum?" if math is wolf we can try to figure it out tomorrow and I think we still get 1 miselim to sort shit out

if FL isn't scum then we are in a v bad spot

what do you think FL's alignment is?

[Menalque]

listen I read your ISO for the last few posts, you clearly don't TR FL unless something has shifted significantly for you and you haven't talked about it, can you please just shelve the ego, vote FL with us, and then have a shitfight with math tomorrow if needed

there's no guarantee that FL shoots a wolf tonight if he's allowed to live and he's scum. I think worst case scenario is prob if he shoots a town and actually is town. if we resolve him today at least we know what we're in for

[Menalque]

also FL is notoriously difficult to lim during the days and we actually are very close to having a wagon on him

if he's scum, this is the best shot of limming him that we've had all game, and if we lim math instead I have little-to-zero faith that we're getting it done tomorrow

[Menalque]

why do I bother

[Menalque]

You could always be wrong even if that were what you were trying to do

[Menalque]

This game has been a masterclass in throwing lol

VOTE: FL

I don’t care if this is wrong or not, wolves go for it it town

[Menalque]

I also just want to reiterate again, although I’m probably leaving for good once my current games wrap, that if somebody will not shut the fuck up you are under no obligation to engage with everything and you can just vote them

I’d love to be able to test this but I think mafia is sort of just a broken game where the only actually effective strat is to find one of the very few people who are really good with their reads and just sheep them on a BoP basis

Which is p boring, really, but when the game is approached the way that it is, I think it’s the best hope

[Menalque]

Phrased differently: the fact that two slots had over 3000 posts this game is why we lost more than anything else including the alignment of those two slots

[Menalque]

This game has been a masterclass in throwing lol

VOTE: FL

I don’t care if this is wrong or not, wolves go for it it town

I agree with you in almost every sense

I don't think this town can come together for a win. But I'd like a chance to try, as the player currently holding the cards.

I mean, sure, but I think we need to kill scum first then wolf hunt and hope to hit them all in a row, unless my elo math is off

That means we kill FL today and I’m realistically very unlikely to ever shift from here

I still think Nero slot is likely town, why do you think they could be scum?

[Menalque]

I could see bnuuy being wolf with like ND and tictac probably?

Then FL the scum

Leaving me, klick, SoD, Freedom as the remaining town

Oh lol we literally can’t even lim scum without assistance from scum gg

[Menalque]

anyone who doesn't vote FL today needs to rethink their game

[Menalque]

I'm being as nice as I can for the level of disappointed I am

[Menalque]

like, people

it shouldn't be this hard

[Menalque]

This game has been a masterclass in throwing lol

VOTE: FL

I don’t care if this is wrong or not, wolves go for it it town

I agree with you in almost every sense

I don't think this town can come together for a win. But I'd like a chance to try, as the player currently holding the cards.

I mean, sure, but I think we need to kill scum first then wolf hunt and hope to hit them all in a row, unless my elo math is off

That means we kill FL today and I’m realistically very unlikely to ever shift from here

I still think Nero slot is likely town, why do you think they could be scum?

You haven't actually explained why you think we need to vote Mafia today Menalque
You've just said you don't care if you're right on FL or not you just want to vote him
The time to do that was D1.

If its so obvious that we should vote Mafia today, prove it in a conversation with me please Menalque

I mean I did do that D1 iirc

kill maf bc if we're right then we get a shot to kill wolves tomo and we maybe get to Elo

also no faith in this town to ever kill FL if we can't do it today

if FL is somehow town here then the game is deeply fucked but he's been one of the most present slots given that he's made like 1800 posts or whatever it is now, and I don't think we have any chance of solving successfully without knowing which alignment the slot is, even if it's v v likely maf

[Menalque]

also looking for one team is easier than looking for both imo, and if FL

isn't

scum then we 100% need to lim maf tomorrow or as they have kills back tomorrow night is GG for town and it's wolves v maf where wolves prob win

I mean wolves prob win anyway atp but I think it's the best shot

[Menalque]

do you think tictac is wolf or town?

[Menalque]

also looking for one team is easier than looking for both imo, and if FL

isn't

scum then we 100% need to lim maf tomorrow or as they have kills back tomorrow night is GG for town and it's wolves v maf where wolves prob win

I mean wolves prob win anyway atp but I think it's the best shot

???

If we lim town->maf then wolves just win outright

oh fuck, yeah

forgot about numbers, sorry

anyone who doesn't vote FL today needs to rethink their game

This still doesn't feel like it's been justified

just the amount of shit that FL has been chatting all game, the way he has consistently just shouted until getting his own way, the fact that he wasn't enchant's shot, the fact his reads have been in constant flux and he was defending (heavily) on D1 slots which now seem to be likely scum, the fact that math was convinced on FL scum and we now know math was 100% town and is a good player

like there is a wealth of reasons for FL scum and nobody will vote him?

it is tiring

[Menalque]

anyone who doesn't vote FL today needs to rethink their game

This still doesn't feel like it's been justified

It isn't justified. It's an OMGUS.

BRO HOW IS IT AN OMGUS WHEN I'VE BEEN CALLING FL SCUM FOR LITERALLY DAYS AND HE'S BEEN CALLING ME TOWN UNTIL IT'S CONVENIENT TODAY LIKE JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

[Menalque]

aaaaaand that means it's time for me to step away

[Menalque]

Hot damn, Menalque and Bnuuy, you two played beautifully the more I look into what you did.

Spoiler:

Can we lim bnuuy now?

VOTE: bnuuy

Do you think this vote feels easier because of bnuuy‘a lack of recent thread presence?

yeah that was a bad vote, but i think he's trying to protect their pocketer catboi, so i dont know how to feel about it.

They seem nice and all, but that’s a scum iso papa leaf

Okay, you can come and join me on bnuuy later in day when catboi doesn’t have enough traction

yeah, this is a TMI because Menalque-Bnuuy are partners.

Doubtful

You’re trying very hard to unrail it as it stands, up to and including your old vote-then-unvote trick which I have seen before, even if others may not have

So take a look at this.

This is a tactic that Menalque knows I pull as scum.

They did something incredibly similar with both Bnuuy and Tictac.

By pushing Bnuuy and TicTac the way they did, it made it look like Catboi counterwagons, but these wagons never went through.

TicTac also had the Mason claim to back themselves up with, and I'll have to look back, but if Menalque is the one who ended up pulling away, this could be a strong indicative of Menalque pushing Bnuuy/TicTac to derail momentum on Catboi, and then back away from those wagons, while simultaneaously distancing themselves.

Toogeloo somehow happened to be the one that got faded despite me defending them.



____________________________

I have a VCA coming that I was doing in this one, but it needs its own post.

Ugh, I’m just so fuckin

good

holy SHIT

Thought I could hold it in to go for the win but I just gotta admit it — I am a wolf, bnuuy and tictac are my partners, and I did exactly everything you just described and I fucking nailed it bro

I even claimed wolf like 5 times and nobody limmed me

Like holy shit awooooooooooooooo

Let’s go boys, wolf win wolf win

[Menalque]

But yeah, Bnuuy-TicTac-Menalque for me is like 99/100 times scum.

veeeeeeery tempted to sig this if we ever have another game together

[Menalque]

Let's talk a bit more about 4-3 vs 4-2-1. I think the latter is faaaar better a position for town.

ESPECIALLY if FL actually is mafia. He'll just die to wolves.

SUPER ESPECIALLY because neither of us trusts this town to coordinate.

Like you want this town to enter 'have to agree all together on the scumteam' territory

When we could just rely on the scum doing this for us, when they've shown to be pretty damn good at hitting each other

Basically I'd like anyone who's town to have a really clear read of this and realise that we're probably not winning 4-3, while we very well could win 4-2-1.

Klick, just tell me who to vote bro, whatever

I think you’re conftown right, I’m assuming someone will tell me if I’m wrong about that

[Menalque]

okay i also do gotta admit that wolves losing because they failed to shoot FL and then him actually winning would be incredibly funny because it meant someone threw even harder than town somehow

[Menalque]

Let's talk a bit more about 4-3 vs 4-2-1. I think the latter is faaaar better a position for town.

ESPECIALLY if FL actually is mafia. He'll just die to wolves.

SUPER ESPECIALLY because neither of us trusts this town to coordinate.

Like you want this town to enter 'have to agree all together on the scumteam' territory

When we could just rely on the scum doing this for us, when they've shown to be pretty damn good at hitting each other

Basically I'd like anyone who's town to have a really clear read of this and realise that we're probably not winning 4-3, while we very well could win 4-2-1.

Klick, just tell me who to vote bro, whatever

I think you’re conftown right, I’m assuming someone will tell me if I’m wrong about that

[Menalque]

I'll be limited access tmo but may check from time to time.

Klick put me where you need me.

~Titus

Same here, I won't be here until nightfall in my area. Damn, without MathBlade's thread bloat the whole game can actually have a discussion without it getting heavily interrupted.

You’re somehow still complaining about math, who is dead, when FL has over 1800 posts

[Menalque]

I haven't decided yet Menalque. Watch my vote if you want.

(Yes I'm conftiwn)

Okay just lmk when

I would like everyone to state their 2 biggest wolf reads.

Don’t really have wolf reads

Klick town, i town, Klick thinks ducks town for some reason so sure, you’re maf, I still think wallflower was town from D1 and that Nero was town, therefore wolves are (bnuuy, tictac, ND) by PoE but I don’t really wolfread any of them on play

[Menalque]

If tictac/bnuuy are wolves tho then I was surprisingly accurate on D1

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

[Menalque]

I'll be limited access tmo but may check from time to time.

Klick put me where you need me.

~Titus

Same here, I won't be here until nightfall in my area. Damn, without MathBlade's thread bloat the whole game can actually have a discussion without it getting heavily interrupted.

You’re somehow still complaining about math, who is dead, when FL has over 1800 posts

Yeah, but i only had like 650 posts from Day 2 to here, Math had like 1k from Day 4 to here.

Still more posts than I’ve had in the entire game

[Menalque]

And frankly, still enough that every time anyone was trying to speak and you didn’t want them to talk about it that it felt like you were just shouting over the thread, from what I saw when actually here

Plus math is normally posty but was 100% worse bc of how much you posted

[Menalque]

But I mean, whatev

I’m literally just gonna vote whoever klick tells me to from here on out, unless someone wants to try and sell me on why ducks is scum (can see it but just kinda trusting klick and attempting to rein in my omgus urge) or someone wants to make a compelling argument for freedom being scum I don’t have much else to add or do

[Menalque]

We just vibe from here on

[Menalque]

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
- william butler yeats

Top content, btw

[Menalque]

i mean there's 9 scum you can be like there's definitely scum in any 4 people and probably hit

there are 6 mafiats tops

@SoD do you know what fencesitting is and why it's bad?

never heard of it.

god you are so adorable

I'm going to take this out of context!

i mean there's 9 scum you can be like there's definitely scum in any 4 people and probably hit

there are 6 mafiats tops

Original post says 4 on each team + Malefactor.

This is like the 4th time we’ve brought this up.

It’s confirmed 9 scum

There...

was

the Werewolf alignment in the sign-up/starting posts, correct?

Found it -

The alignments that can exist in this game are Town, Mafia, Werewolf and Malefactor (only one; wins when the town loses).

arg dammit

I was thinkin by 9 scum you meant nine mafiats

fair enough, nine scum, nine threats to the town

I would like everyone to legitimately, deeply think about these posts in the context of the rest of SoD's play and tell me what their read is on this behaviour. I'm less interested in a discussion about it influenced by others' opinions, and more interested in everyone's personal opinion on this when they look at it carefully.

eh, I've seen scum fake dumbtells before, although admittedly not that often

it's not enough that I'd feel safe clearing SoD based on it -- the fact he's new gives it more credence, but the fact that catboi was on wolves and FL/mastina on maf teams means that either of them could have told him to do that if he didn't come up with it himself

[Menalque]

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

Nashville?

also I thought you thought I was scum, when/why did that change

[Menalque]

VOTE: bnuuy

I really struggle to see bnuuy flipping anything but scum.

Got it

VOTE: bnuuy

[Menalque]

Okay, so tictac or Nashville next?

Also you quite possibly get shot tonight so remind ducks not to try and kill me tomorrow

[Menalque]

Oh wait, we need to kill FL now right? Or no?

You still think wolves need to shoot him tonight?

[Menalque]

Uhh

7 alive

Lim tictac, flips wolf, 6 left

If last wolf doesn’t shoot Fl but shoots conftown and FL shoots them wolves lose

If last wolf shoots FL and FL shoots them then town wins

If wolves and FL both shoot different town then it goes down to 2-1-1

Where town win if the scum cross-shoot, if they both shoot town they draw

So I think scum probably have a forced draw if we flip wolf today

[Menalque]

On the flip side, let’s say we flip FL maf today

Go into night and it’s 3-3

We lose

I think town is lost either way, but I guess probably the best is flip wolf today and hope the scum fuck up?

[Menalque]

Mmm

I mean whatever, I’m literally just a second klick as far as mechanics go

[Menalque]

I definitely do not think Menalque is town.

@klick lmk if you want thoughts on anything or when you wanna vote/who

Don’t have a lot to add outside of that and things are v busy irl as I fly back to the Uk for the summer on fri

[Menalque]

I don’t see who else is maf other than FL

Maaaaaaybe ND in a world where ducks is wolf?

But most likely to me is still FL maf, wolves tictac + ND with an outside chance of ducks instead of one of the others

[Menalque]

Idk why ur trying to convince me of anything when I’ve already said multiple times that I’m just here to sheep klick and give him my opinion if he asks

[Menalque]

Idk why ur trying to convince me of anything when I’ve already said multiple times that I’m just here to sheep klick and give him my opinion if he asks

Trying to test your lack of action.

You’re not trying to sheep Klick, you’re trying to sheep Klick onto me, there’s a difference.

No there isn’t, klick is very aware that I want to kill you and that I’m pretty much sure that you’re the final maf

I’m still deferring to him because I think he cares more than I do and he’s been like the only person I’ve enjoyed this game

@Menalque - Explain your Sword and Freedom reads.

They have been my town reads since Day 1, and they're the two that just happen to be getting universally town read now?

So in your own words, I'd like to see why you town read both Sword and Freedom.

I can’t be bothered, I’ve had wallflower!slot as town since D1 and neither rep has done anything to sway me on that. I can’t remember exactly why past!mena was so confident on wallflower!town but I’m trusting him

Ducks I’ve said multiple times I don’t particularly read as town and I’m just sheeping klick

[Menalque]

I would like to reiterate that not only is it the winning move but it also makes the game approx 1000x more playable and enjoyable if we lim FL today

[Menalque]

Anything you want to wait for or am I good to E-1 him?

[Menalque]

My plan for maybe winning this game has been to pure sheep you for at least the last 2 in game days

Like I’m never voting ducks or freedom this game unless we somehow end up in 3p elo and I have to

I won’t vote yet in case ducks/freedom wanna respond to that

Alternatively if they don’t have anything to add and wanna put FL at E-1 I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t take GREAT satisfaction in being the one who gets to hammer him this game

[Menalque]

At the very least I hope everyone recognises that Sword of Ducks is just blatantly town at this point.

Somehow the most fitting way for town to lose is ducks barely playing and choosing to trust maf over conftown for what I’m going to generously describe as ??? reasons

Like to the point that it only would make rational sense if they were teamed but that’s a mech impossibility lol

[Menalque]

There is no sort of guarantee that Mafia and Wolves target each other tonight. Your plan assumes there is. But there isn't. I wish there was. But there is not.

I'd rather take that chance.

No offence but this is possibly the dumbest fucking play I’ve ever seen anyone make on mafiascum(dot)com ever and frankly you should feel bad about it

I can only imagine how klick, who has saved your sorry ass about a million times and who is mechanically confirmed, is feeling about it given that my level of irritation is vicarious

[Menalque]

Not interested in getting into a back-and-forth with FL or Titus about nonsense.

Hopefully Wolves see the necessity of killing FL tonight.

It’s a forced draw between wolves and maf atp unless either side gets greedy

[Menalque]

I have absolutely nothing nice left to say but plenty that I’d like to say yet am just about holding my tongue

Going to bed

[Menalque]

Oh, ducks is 14

I guess that makes it kind of forgiveable actually

[Menalque]

It’s been a while since I saw a game where one player was so overwhelmingly responsible for their faction winning, huge kudos to Klick and also thank you on a personal level for helping make the game enjoyable again

[Menalque]

gg wp to all others, and ty to Ceph for running this