Btw the exam went well, though I'm still passing the class either way!
It was my last exam too, yay
In post 2691, fireisredsir wrote:so meuh.
sometimes her posts feel genuine and i want to townread her, but i think there's just a few things that i really have trouble getting over and i keep coming back to them. these are the biggest things for me:
1) the start of d2 push on gorilla. its already been pointed out how strange it was, saying that gorilla looks paired with marci and then voting gorilla. but with marci flipping scum i think it might just straight up be tmi. newer scum have that issue a lot i think, where they look for fake associatives with their scum partners in order to tie them together but do it before the partner even flips. the reasoning in
1365 for why she's going after gorilla instead of marci is p weak and her whole response to the pushback on it kind of feels like she realizes she messed up and is going into damage control mode.
2) her progression on marci.
162 and
207 feel blatantly partner-y to me. kind of awkwardly talking around a read, and saying "eh ill have a better read later". for people who to my understanding are friends and have played together a lot, it doesn't feel like a natural interaction at all. she starts off with more of a scumlean, but spends the whole day voting other wagons, quickly finds a weak reason to TR marci in
310, gradually townreads more and more, and then in
822 says the marci lim is bad and votes the counterwagon.
then early d2 she quickly shades baltar for questioning Marci in
1162, says marci is +town for LLD's death in
1176 and
1190, and then in her readlist in
1233 has a much more noncommittal, questioning read of marci. i think this has significant scum motivation bc if someone isn't looking closely, they'll think she just kinda nullreads Marci and is willing to consider her scum, but her action that she is taking in the thread is all counter to that. she is continually pointing out reasons Marci could be town, and not reasons why she could be scum, as if she is arguing against what she already knows to be true.
she then turns hard onto marci in posts like
1289. here she is acting like she is suddenly now convinced marci is scum and and is pulling out every reason she can find. but the thing that makes this feel like it's just planted for cred is that there's zero followup. she pivots this into the gorilla/marci s/s and stays on gorilla. then she hops around other wagons, never voting marci, until finally at the end when it's hard to avoid. the thing that makes this scum is that it isn't accurately recreating a town mindset. if she truly did suddenly find marci as scum and had all of these good reasons, to the point where she's preflipping her onto gorilla, why doesn't she ever contribute to the pressure there? why is she continually pushing other wagons? why does the read on marci seem to come and go in her mind based on whatever is convenient to push at the time? it's just not town
3) still think her play around lavar was just a straight up pocket attempt. i don't really see any way that interaction was pure. i don't think this will be very convincing to anyone else but it seriously stands out to me and it is something that i can't really get over personally
so uh yea i think i want to go back here
VOTE: Meuh
I'm not answering this in an orderly way because I wanna let my thoughts flow better, so it's a bit of a cluster
So with (3), are you specifically talking about the point where I voted with him? Tbh I think part of the reason why it skewed me so much is that it humanized him a lot in my eyes, which I really liked. I'm kinda interested in what you think the point of it was, though? Like out of all people, why would I pocket someone I voted for and who was a lim candidate? Feels like I'd be doing better pocketing anyone else
Like look at the way I interacted with Bell for example
I feel like I mentioned several times I was annoyed with him, while still stating often my townread on him. But I never used this read to approach him in a way that was pocketing. (I don't think I interacted much with him at all)
I don't really see how the way I interacted with others (pissing off plenty) is an angle you think would be one scum!me takes. Gorilla, VPB and I'd even say you, Marci and Kovu seemed kind of annoyed with me. If you look at my last scum game, it's very passive, by the books gameplay. Votes not moving often, basic stances on the game, not delving into pre-flip associations, townreading most people. Because I come up with a lot less wild ideas and I do less 180s when I'm not paranoid about who scum are and not genuinely analyzing the game. Those things come from me when I have passion in my reads, when I get invested into them.
I feel like I've talked about the points in (1) in depth. I felt like my reads were inaccurate and the stars seemed to align on Marci and Gorilla, so I got very passionate about it all. I do think my response to the pushback doesn't look great but that's largely because I took it personally. A lot of the pushback on it felt like it was more about me sucking than about the actual read and it felt pretty terrible. May or may not have cried from that + being high emotion from irl stuff, but meh. First half of day 2 I did not enjoy in the slightest.
(2) Reading Marci has always been and is still a bit weird for me. It's not particularly enjoyable, and it feels like walking on eggshells sometimes because she's a friend of mine and I don't want to make the game worse by having her all wrong. (Which I think I've done before) I still love having her in the game thoug <3. Broadly speaking sure I guess people would be more eager to read people they know well but that's not something that can be transposed in all of these sorts of situations. My friendship with Marci isn't a copy+paste of every other friendship on the site.
I'm trying to read her more and treat her less in a different way because I think I'm good enough at reading her at this point, but yeah. Marci this game early on I didn't like the push because of who was on which wagon, not finding the points against Marci particularly compelling and wanting to sort her later, with flips.
I think I have this bad habit of simply dropping my thoughts on individual posts rather than the broader game someone is playing. This makes my reads harder to follow and it applies to how I was feeling about Marci. Occasionally one of her posts particularly stuck out to me, and I commented on it. Sometimes they were town indicative things, sometimes they were scum indicative. Marci's early day 2 felt horribly unnatural and my perspective on her had shifted significantly at this point. Early day 2 was also a spring cleaning of my perspective on the game so I can understand why it looks unnatural to an extent.
Idk defending myself is weird to do. I'm just kinda wondering, some things I've done have undoubtedly been odd, I play in odd ways. But do you, and others who are questioning my alignment, really think I make more sense as scum than as a townie? Do those odd things get explained away with a red role card? Am I motivated by an agenda? Do these things outweigh the moments where you've read one of my posts and thought "yeah, she's a townie"; which I assume has happened to several of you at this point? (It's happened to me with several people in this game) I think I've spewed my towniness in my posts at this point.
Imo scum have 2 ways to approach this day:
1. Bus a partner for long-term benefit
2. Defend their partners and get a mislim
With the way I've been voting and the fact I'm largely interested in following conf/likely town to make the game progress, is an agenda being fulfilled?
and with the way I voted for Marci and was the one who ignited that string of votes, why would I do it that way when partnered with her?? Why would I vote for her without that much conviction? If it was coordinated why is it so mellow? The answer is that I wasn't that sure about her alignment, because if I was scum I'd either defend her to her last breath, or I'd bus her. No wishy-washy stuff. Uncertainty is something I've had about my reads at every step of this game.
Ultimately mislimming me isn't terrible because it still narrows the POE, but I'm still a townie and limming townies tends to not be good.