Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[Mana_Ku]

Vote MafiaSSK

for not understanding that it's the random VOTING stage and not the Random FoSing stage.

[Mana_Ku]

Is that the reason that tarh has a vote count and a FoS count on this page?

[Mana_Ku]

Then why don't you make it interesting ?

Once apon a time, there was a sweet innocent girl, who was thinking: 'Why is nobody listening to that cute almighty spinning tigre? Let us all vote MafiaSSk and become happy .'
From that moment on, more players listened to her and many voted MafiaSSK.

And they lived happily ever after.

Everybody, listen to that sweet innocent girl and share your votes with MafiaSSK .

[Mana_Ku]

No, just posting.
Would you like to random bandwagon to a claim?

[Mana_Ku]

Can anyone give cr3t1n leesons how to post in normal English ?
I know that I'm not the best, but even I'm better.

Kinetic, what does the town gain from the win condition claim?

[Mana_Ku]

I'm also against a mass claim, however the claim about the win conditions will be interesting when someone is almost lynched.
Everyone can claim a alignment faction or a racial faction as I think that they are known. But the win condition is different. I'm sure that the win condition of scum is different than that of the normal citizen.
But the problem is that the win condition of a power role can be different as well. So we should be careful with this.

I think it's better to wait with the win condition claim until there are less players.

[Mana_Ku]

Why a FoS instead of a vote pacman?

I'll keep it with what i already said. The race claims should be later. If there are only a few players left, we can use the race claims and the win claims to catch the scum.

Armlx, what do you think will happen if we will race claim now?

[Mana_Ku]

OK, you got me in the plan. I absolutely don't see anything which could be said as counter argument.

[Mana_Ku]

OK, I didn't want to do this, but you're having the wrong suspects at the moment.
Nat is not scum as I have the the same alignment as he. Which probably means that someone knows that HP isn't lying as well. And Nat's right. It doesn't say that we need to survive. I'm sure that this isn't mentioned at the AOL as well.

Short said, there are 6 alignment factions.
Most players will have Army of Light as this alignment wants both mafia dead.
Then there is the Anti-shadow. These wants the Shadow Operatives and the Neutral Survivars dead.
Which would mean that there is also an Anti-Vorlons (HP). They would win when the Vorlon Operatives and the Neutral Survivors are gone.
Then there are the two mafia: Shadow/Vorlon Operatives. The Shadow Operatives want probably the AoL and the Anti-shadows exterminated, while the Vorlon-Operatives want the AoL and the Anti-Vorlons out of the game.
Last will be the Neutral Survivors, which would mean that they just need to survive as every alignment is already hunted by two alignments.

[Mana_Ku]

For all those, who couldn't understand cr3t1n's post, I have done my best with a translation:

I'm a league of unaligned worlds member.

I think there are lots of townies who dont know who each other are they are uninformed.
we shouldnt be racist that wat babylon 5 was 4 (no idea what he means)
I think there is more than 1 mafia they are informed (do you mean both mafia groups know who the members of the other mafia are?)
and the townies should try to lynch them (true, but also the survivors should die)

here is wat i got from reading again

I was really considering voting malthusis for that Kinetic vote, but Nat is confirmed non-town so.....

Can't they both be mafia? (if Natirasha's alignment is the same as me, then no)

I don't understand why you didn't vote malthusis then.

Malthusis sounds suspicious in 573. He doesn't explain his vote against Natirasha.
I think he's oppertunistic.

Last, the logical choice for lynch today is Nat or hp[leaves]. They're confirmed mafia biased, even if they're not mafia. Additionally, I'm concerned about their WCs. They're survivor hunters, but they can theoretically win even if dead...

Why?
Hunting survivors isn't scummy and doesn't mean you don't have to hunt mafia too.

hpleaves is confusing me here

Actually I can win the game no matter alive or dead. Me dying this day does nothing good or bad to me. But I can help you only while I'm alive.

I think he's making this up after Thar posted about win conditions making it sound like more then it is.

(no, he doesn't. If he's anti-Vorlon then he doesn't have to be alive. As long as the Vorlon Operatives and the Neutral Survivors die, before any other WC is succesful, he still wins.)

Well, anyway, given the current line of discussion, both Nat and hp need to die I think. I'll support either lynch, and since currently it seems to be in favor of hp leaves...

lol, what.
Why are you following instead of explaining?

I doubt we have any more survivors

Who were the first?
This is suspicious (they think nat and hp are the survivors, and possibly me as well)

If both of these are true, that means it would be physically impossible for the town (Army of Light) to achieve it's win condition of killing both Vorlons and Shadows because as soon as one group died one of hp or nat would win.

I don't think Tar would give the town a physically impossible win condition.

Why do you keep saying town?
And look:

The game ends when a win condition is fulfilled unless that win condition explicitly says otherwise.

(Then comes a quote, which i won't quote as I have no idea from who the first quote is. Just look at his original post.)

Why?
Malthusis keep pushing that hp and nat are survivors but there is no reason.
He's just following everyone else.
I think he's definitly scum.

(He thinks I'm right about the alignments)

Remember: If no one has majority by deadline, it is a no lynch. I strongly urge everyone to make up their minds about who to lynch.

lol, what?
You say we need to lynch, but you don't tell us who.
scum.

Dybeck did the same thing.

I can vote hp, but I want to lynch malthusis.

why isn't anyone looking at him?
He's so scummy. He follows others and he ignores question.
Forget about races.
Scumhunt and lynch scum instead.
Lynch Malthusis.


If I hear one comment, I will be so angry.

I'll look into Malthusis more. I think cr3t1n has some decent points. So I'm gonna

Unvote Vote Malthusis

Let's see if Malthusis is as scummy as cr3t1n says.

BTW I'm Babylon 5.

[Mana_Ku]

See the end of my previous post. I'm B5.

The start of my previous post is a translation from cr3t1n's last post. He's unaligned.

Well, I want to give him a chance with his opinion. But I've figured out why noone else translates his posts.

[Mana_Ku]

Also Dybeck, to avoid further confusion I only translated what cr3t1n said. The part that you qouted from me was from cr3t1n. Next time, it would be nice if you put the correct name with the quote.

[Mana_Ku]

If I didn't barge in Nat, you would still be looked at non-town. Now there's someone who has the same allignment as you.

I'm not gonna give my character name as it would make me one of the more obvious kills when the scum has found out. However, I'm anti-shadow, which means that my character has a reason for not wanting to kill Vorlons, and the character is from Babylon 5 (the race). If you look you can find out.

Armlx, that statement is wrong. Why do you say that we're non towns? Nat and hp have claimed their characters. I've checked and I know from hp's character why he doesn't want to kill Shadow operatives. My character also has a reason for not wanting to kill Vorlon operatives. But that doesn't mean that the anti-vorlons/shadows are non town.


I'm busy lately. I have almost no time to check my games at the moment. I hope to look at Malthusis today, but I can't promise anything.
However, it's interesting to see that many players are focusing on players who have said that their win codition is almost the same, while their not looking for the scum tells.

[Mana_Ku]

Ok, but don't blame me when town loses.

I'm Lyta Alexander. The players who watch the show, know that Lyta had some sort of experience with Kosh. This is why I'm anti-shadow alligned. She has apparently sympathy for the vorlons.

Reason why I didn't want to claim:
Thanks to my oh so special powers, I'm the cop who may investigate each day. Thanks to your interest in the 'anti's' you have now exposed two cops. Well done!

And now SSK. Explain to me, how you have read 3/4 pages in max. 7 minutes. Investigating what has been said. And to decide who to vote for. But not claiming.

unvote vote MafiaSSK

[Mana_Ku]

B5:
Kinetic
Veerus
Forbiddanlight
Empking
DrippingGoofball
Mana_Ku
VisMajor

Narn:
Dybeck
Malthusis
Farside
populartajo

LoUW:
armlx
cr3t1n
MafiaSSK

Earthforce:
pacman281292
hp [leaves]

Centauri:
RandomGem
The Internet

Minarbi:
Natirasha
Darox

These are (if I'm correct) all the claims with the exception of KoC.
The two I see as most likely to be scum are SSK and Malthusis. But I can see dybeck as a possibility as well.

Mana_Ku.

Define 'cop' more precisely for us please.

You can detect Vorlons and/or Shadows?

I will know the alignment faction and racial faction of the player I investigate. For me that would give: Anti-Shadow and Babylon 5.
In my role PM it says cop, but my ability is called Mind Read.
Do you want to know more Dybeck?

Mana_ku.. since you're the day cop, who have you investigated and with what result?

I was hoping as well that I would get my result immedaitly. But it will be resolved at the end of day 1. So I don't know Kinetic's allignment and race from my investigation yet.
I chose Kinetic due to his suggestion of a race claim. He didn't give his final conclusion and there could/can be some advantages for the scum as well. If I would have known the result of my investigation this day, I could have said without a doubt if this should have been done or not. But now I'm not sure. We'll see what Kinetic's plan is soon.

[Mana_Ku]

B5:
Veerus
Forbiddanlight
Empking
DrippingGoofball
Mana_Ku
VisMajor

Narn:
Dybeck
Malthusis
Farside
populartajo

LoUW:
armlx
cr3t1n
MafiaSSK

Earthforce:
pacman281292
hp [leaves]

Centauri:
RandomGem
The Internet

Minbari:
Natirasha
Darox
Kinetic

This is probably the correct list. Again without KoC's claim.

I actually see myself more as a different town, not scum extensions. I know that my character has a reason why she doesn't want to kill the Vorlons. hp character has a reason why he doesn't want to kill Shadows. The same goes probably for nat as well. And it's seems like that if there's another anti-vorlon, that that character has a reason as well.
Besides, if one of the anti-vorlons/shadows wants to win, they have to help AOL as well for their win condition. I don't think that the Vorlon/Shadow Operatives win conditions has this.

I now understand why you want to know KoC's claim. If possible, I want everyone to shut up about Kinetic's plan before KoC has claimed. It's better that KoC won't know anything else about Kinetic's plan than already has been given.

I can now also understand why you are attacking Veerus about:

He thinks that B5 is the "Obvious town race" so he claimed it...

I see Veerus as top suspect. The other to me is Empking.

[Mana_Ku]

B5:
Veerus
Forbiddanlight
Empking
Mana_Ku
VisMajor

Narn:
Dybeck
Malthusis
Farside
populartajo

LoUW:
armlx
cr3t1n
MafiaSSK

Earthforce:
pacman281292
hp [leaves]
DrippingGoofball

Centauri:
RandomGem
The Internet

Minbari:
Natirasha
Darox
Kinetic

Again without KoC's claim.

And newly added: the WC of the races according to Kinetic.
Minbari: Kill Earthforce and Narn, they are hunted by Babylon 5 and Unaligned Worlds
Earthforce: Kill unaligned and Centauri, are hunted by Babylon 5 and Minbari
Babylon 5: Kill Earthforce and Minbari, are hunted by unaligned and Narn
Centauri: Kill unaligned and Narn, are huned by Narn and Earthforce
Narn: Kill Centauri and B5, are hunted by Minbari and Centauri
Unaligned: Kill B5 and Minbari, are hunted by Centauri and Earth force

The only ones which don't fit are these WC:
Earthforce need to kill LoUW (3) and Centauri (2)
LoUW need to kill B5 (5) and Minbari (3).
B5 need to kill Earthforce (3) and Minbari (3)

Or am I wrong here?

[Mana_Ku]

Kinetic just mentioned that already. I took the wrong one. And just saw that Kinetic beated me as well with this .

Unvote

If I look at cr3t1n's post, it seems that I have two options left KoC or The Internet.
I'll go for

Vote KoC

Cybele's play was bad.
But The Internet needs to come in as well and show us if he's the wrong lynch or not. However, the same goes for KoC.

[Mana_Ku]

I'm bothered that KoC knows about Kinetic's plan, but doesn't claim his race.
Also KoC, have you read Cybele's posts?

[Mana_Ku]

My attempt to read Kinetic's mind gave no result.
hp, did you succeed?

[Mana_Ku]

Malthusis, here is the post in which hp claimed.

Ok I think I have to give you a reason to keep me alive for this day.

I'm Alfred Bester. EarthForce/Anti-Vorlon Psi-Cop. Every night I can read someone's mind, learning his/her race and faction.

I can be inspecting people at night while the Army of Light cop (if there is one) stays hidden.

I'm more dependable and trustful than Nat and his constantly changing ability.

If you don't believe me, Nat is the logical choice to lynch without risking your cop. If he's indeed a survivor, I'll start a wagon on myself in Day 2.

If you believe me, I suggest waiting until Kinetic comes up with the second part of his BIG plan.

You can look at it at page 31 post 757.

At this moment I see Farside as scummier. However, there has been the possibility that there are 6 anti-vorlons/shadows in total. If so, it would be nice if the last anti-shadow would show himself. Otherwise, this could result in a mislynch. And I think the last anti-shadow would like to lynch the Shadow Operatives or Neutral Survivor more than an anti-Vorlon.
Natirasha, as shown by Tar at the list of the dead players, it was shown that Dybeck was a Member :S. Does your role PM say that you are a Member?

[Mana_Ku]

@hp
See the quote of mine that you posted. First of all it says: 'At this moment'. This is easily changed if the last anti-Shadow claims, as shown in that quote. I also mentioned 6 anti-vorlons/shadows in total, which means that I counted Farside as possible anti-Vorlon. Then I also ask Natirasha if his role is the same as Dybeck's. If not, then it seems likely that there's a third anti-shadow player which makes Farside claims more justafied.

[Mana_Ku]

The anti-shadows. Natirasha and I have claimed. There's possibly another one.

[Mana_Ku]

Vote hp

Not for the reasons you guy just mentioned. Remember that Malthusis asked where hp claimed? I quoted it for him. Her it is again:

Ok I think I have to give you a reason to keep me alive for this day.

I'm Alfred Bester. EarthForce/Anti-Vorlon Psi-Cop. Every night I can read someone's mind, learning his/her race and faction.

I can be inspecting people at night while the Army of Light cop (if there is one) stays hidden.

I'm more dependable and trustful than Nat and his constantly changing ability.

If you don't believe me, Nat is the logical choice to lynch without risking your cop. If he's indeed a survivor, I'll start a wagon on myself in Day 2.

If you believe me, I suggest waiting until Kinetic comes up with the second part of his BIG plan.

When I quoted this, I didn't think clearly. But then I saw it. hp claims that he's a cop who can investigate

every night

. However when the day was over, we went immediatly to day 2.
However, Tar's 13th rule states:

This is a modified Deep South setup, therefore there are no nights in this game. All abilities must be submitted during the game day and will resolve at the end of day unless otherwise stated.

There are no nights!

[Mana_Ku]

The Gunsmith is an information role that can check one customer each night, and finds out whether that player has a gun (Mafia, Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, Army Veterans, etc).

Unvote

Vote Malthusis

Malthusis, did you know this? And why did you target hp?

[Mana_Ku]

So what did your result say?
That he can kill or that he has a gun?

[Mana_Ku]

It simply said that [hp] was dangerous.

got a guilty read on [hp] having the ability to kill people

I know that [hp] can kill for sure, or else I wouldn't have claimed.

The flavor says I am a good judge of character, so [hp] might not nessecarily have a gun

Contradiction?

(I was actually going to investigate Mana,

but I didn't know you could change targets

).

What do you mean with the bolded part?

[Mana_Ku]

Unvote Vote Empking

Not town in this case doesn't mean scum. If you're AOL, you shouldn't hunt hp if his claim is correct.

FoS Malthusis

I may have unvoted, but that doesn't mean that you're of the hook. Especially after saying these things:

The flavor says I am a good judge of character, so [hp] might not nessecarily have a gun

I know that [hp] can kill for sure, or else I wouldn't have claimed.

You're also talking about a gun, while you said that the results you get is:

You can investigate someone and see if they are able to kill

FoS DGB and armlx

hp isn't dead yet and you guys are already saying that 'his scumbuddy/scumbuddies' are voting The Internet. But as you should have seen, there are only 4 groups: TI voters, Empking voter, hp voters and no vote voters. Don't like this from you guys. Especially not from armlx.

[Mana_Ku]

Mana Ku would say all that given how obvious it will be she is obv scum once HP flips scum.

And why is that?

I don't see your point about what DGB and myself are saying....

hp [leaves] (7) - malthusis, armlx, DrippingGoofball, Natirasha, veerus, MafiaSSK, MacavityLock

Actually, DGB, to be fair, the obv partner is fl, Kinetic believing his theory is just more likely then him unbussing.

Mana Ku would say all that given how obvious it will be she is obv scum once HP flips scum.

You are speculating about hp allignment and mine and fl's if hp turns up scum. However, we don't know hp's allignment yet. So, I don't see how it's helpful to the towns to speculate about the allignments. As far as I can remember, you have done this only once in the games we were in together. Or do you have an example where you did this when you were town?

[Mana_Ku]

The flavor says I am a good judge of character, so [hp] might not nessecarily have a gun

Besides, he has admitted that it's a gunsmith-like role. That could mean that he will see cops as dangerous. And not to forget, this is a tar-game. Anything can happen.

Notice broken symmetry much?

What about it?

[Mana_Ku]

A gunsmith normally gets the result of: gun found or no gun found.
When a gunsmith investigates a cop, he also gets a result of 'gun found'.
In this case, the results will be: dangerous or not dangerous.
It seems likely that when he investigates a cop, his result would be 'dangerous'.

However, that's one thing that bothers me. The other thing is that Malthusis can use his flavour about him being a good judge of character, that he made a mistake. But now he starts talking about knowing it for the fully hundred percent. And that's the other thing. He only started talking about definitly knowing it, after ppl started voting hp.

[Mana_Ku]

I think I need to play more games with armlx. It seems like he pisses me off every time he's scum. And when he isn't he doesn't .

Kill Mana_Ku, NOW.

How nice

Also, DGB after I have posted this post, check that little pink sign underneath my avatar. I'm not sure if TI made that mistake as well.

And DGB, why did you think I was suspicious of TI?