Infernal Affairs - Game Over!

[Tejate Raichu]

Neat, I'm actually early to a thread this time. I see some familiar faces in the playerlist.

Anyways, back to more pressing matters: I'm sorry to be the one to say this, but I did see Keeper take a devil deal on basement 2.

VOTE: The Keeper

[Tejate Raichu]

Would a movie like this even have a theme song? I should probably watch the movie to find out.

[Tejate Raichu]

If I end up watching the movie I'll let you know whether or not it has a theme song. In exchange, you have to locktown me and we can both get banned for out of game influence. Deal?

[Tejate Raichu]

You drive a hard bargain. I'm in.

[Tejate Raichu]

Internal affairs! Internal affairs! Something something something but you're pointing a gun at your friend so be prepared!
Internal affairs! Internal affairs! Something something something there's a city in the background so don't be scared!

i don't really have much to go off of other than the picture at the top so that's probably the best i got

Actually you know what, this sounds about right. Until further notice I will take this as the canon theme song of this movie.

[Tejate Raichu]

I was about to ask why your I had an accent.

Anyways, let me be the first to quickly ask something about the setup since I haven't really played many closed setups before. When I was reading through the rules, I didn't see anything regarding counts of specific factions. Based on your guys' experience, do you think it's possible there may be a neutral wincon role in this setup?

[Tejate Raichu]

^ This is not directed at the mod

[Tejate Raichu]

I was about to ask why your I had an accent.

Anyways, let me be the first to quickly ask something about the setup since I haven't really played many closed setups before. When I was reading through the rules, I didn't see anything regarding counts of specific factions. Based on your guys' experience, do you think it's possible there may be a neutral wincon role in this setup?

Could be. Its pooky so i am guessing the chances are slightly negative.....
i don't remember him ever playing that much around with neutrals

Hmm, will keep that in mind. I was a bit curious since the (completed) closed setups I've scrolled through disclosed the possibility of third party from the outset.

Also, hi MagikHorse.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'll vote you once we vote up Keeper (your partner).

[Tejate Raichu]

Hmmm... I do like poker...

[Tejate Raichu]

We talking Texas hold 'em or omaha?

[Tejate Raichu]

Texas Holdem is the only true poker

This is the most based possible response, and I'm definitely not just saying that because I have no goddamn clue how to play omaha.

UNVOTE: Keeper
VOTE: Firebringer

All hail the new mayor. Or president. Mayoresident?

[Tejate Raichu]

Is it? Unless I miscounted, there haven't even been enough players who have checked on the thread for there to be a random lolhammer.

[Tejate Raichu]

Well, as much fun as flummeryposting has been, I am eager to get out of RVS. This might be a good avenue to pursue, once momo responds.

[Tejate Raichu]

Wow, last game there was a page 8 vote on me. Now we're at page 4 with 2 votes on me? I'm eagerly looking forward to next game where I get hammered on page 1.

Care to explain Galron? This doesn't seem like part of RVS.

[Tejate Raichu]

... understandable.

[Tejate Raichu]

Oh, okay.

[Tejate Raichu]

I shifted to serious because I was under the assumption that it wasn't RVS. I don't think this sudden switch is actually all that out of character with my meta offsite or on, but you can check over my early ISO of my previous game (Open 842) if you don't believe me. I actually don't think it's even particularly uncommon from my experiences off-site, so I find it interesting that it's pointed out here. Even in this very thread, basically everyone who got here early was goofing around, so I'm not sure that that's just me being unfamiliar with site meta.

88 was pretty much exactly what it said on the tin, I'm fairly confident I've made that exact mistake once or twice. 90 was me being a little confused at the re-vote, I was kind of hoping he'd come back with some reasoning if he was gonna vote me again but if it's still RV then I guess there's no real reason for me to prod at it much further.

And yes, I'm pretty much free for the next couple of hours.

[Tejate Raichu]

Okay, so the vote I thought was an actual vote from momo was RVS, and the vote I thought was RVS from you was an actual vote. Glad to see we're absolutely not on the same page at all, care to explain your reasoning again Galron?

[Tejate Raichu]

Admittingly, I am a bit interested to see who would be eager to hop on/steer clear of an early semi-serious wagon on me, and why.

[Tejate Raichu]

STD, I'm a bit curious since you are one of the familiar faces in this thread. Is your read on me influenced by meta?

[Tejate Raichu]

Admittingly, I am a bit interested to see who would be eager to hop on/steer clear of an early semi-serious wagon on me, and why.

STD, I'm a bit curious since you are one of the familiar faces in this thread. Is your read on me influenced by meta?

You seem a

little

too concerned so early of how you are being perceived.

Do you think it's not natural that I'd be interested in the first content related topic this game had at the time of making that post? The fact that it was about me matters little in my eyes. Content is content, and we didn't really have much to discuss up until momo broke the ice.

Also, what about 105 gave you that idea, exactly? It's not about me trying to be perceived as town, I'm trying to understand why others (specifically STD) view my slot the way they do, I don't think the question was really unwarranted seeing as we have been in a game together before (though STD replaced out before its conclusion). Furthermore, it's not as if I only asked this of STD because he townread me. I asked Galron and momo to elaborate as well.

[Tejate Raichu]

Also, agreed with Magik, I think we're starting to move out of RVS. If hellbooks has a legitimate read on Andante, I think beans should be spilt.

[Tejate Raichu]

wow… so spicy!! love it tbh!!!

i feel like im being strongarmed into wanting to townread you from you being likeable

That’s not a bad thing!!! I’m town! Feel free to TR me

@CSF I mean, it’s not a TR I’d die for, just an early gut read I had, consider it a town lean vs lock town read, and I liked the overall energy coming into the game, felt like Fire wasn’t afraid to post/afraid of appearance, was just having fun, breaking the ice, making it super easy for people to make an entrance. That kind of stuff I generally view as townier rather than as scum behaviors

Honestly, I kinda view that stuff as NAI. When you've played these sorts of games for a while, messing around is pretty effortless as either faction. I'd only really say messing around and being loose is (maybe) AI with really new players, new players often panic at the prospect of rolling red and have a much harder time saying anything that sounds natural, even if it has nothing to do with the game.

[Tejate Raichu]

Well, if you don't mind, I'm just gonna make extra sure we don't see sudden lolhammers.

UNVOTE: Firebringer

So far Scorpious is the first slot that has given me enough to consider, I feel like. So far I'm getting more of a confused than a strictly scum vibe, but I'll hold off before solidifying a day 1 read on them. Magik I'm still thinking about since I don't give out free townreads just on activity.

[Tejate Raichu]

Neat, I'm actually early to a thread this time. I see some familiar faces in the playerlist.

Anyways, back to more pressing matters: I'm sorry to be the one to say this, but I did see Keeper take a devil deal on basement 2.

VOTE: The Keeper

I have 3 health, why in The Name of The Beast would I take a devil deal?

We're also in Basement 1.

Guess I found a Secret Room with Tech.5 in.

Ah, but you don't spend coin health on devil deals anymore. Satan is now excepting spare change.

[Tejate Raichu]

give out free townreads

how much d u charge?

About three ninety-nine.

Well, if you don't mind, I'm just gonna make extra sure we don't see sudden lolhammers.

UNVOTE: Firebringer

So far Scorpious is the first slot that has given me enough to consider, I feel like. So far I'm getting more of a confused than a strictly scum vibe, but I'll hold off before solidifying a day 1 read on them. Magik I'm still thinking about since I don't give out free townreads just on activity.

Curious to what I’ve “given you enough to consider?

Most of your posts have been related to game content. I don't need to necessarily know your meta or even like said posts to start formulating an opinion off of that. You and Magik are the ones I'm giving the most thought to right now for that reason.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'm not prepared to call Magik Townie McTownerson yet, but so far I think it would be in our best interest to give him a day 1 pass (stolen from morph the cat). Maybe a day 2 pass.

[Tejate Raichu]

Well, for one, his general attitude is constructive for creating actual game content to discuss.

For two, reading his posts back, I kind of like that he didn't instantly locktown me. Feels like he's considering my slot seriously instead of taking one thing that looks town or extrapolating something that might look scum.

[Tejate Raichu]

Not particularly getting my noggin joggin one way or the other. That seems pretty normal to me.

[Tejate Raichu]

prob wrong town hence why TR wants to give you a pass. I'm sure I'm wrong but it just seemed like interesting timing that you said you wouldn't vote Fire and maybe Toog and then TR comes in hard town reading you.

Also, look at Toogs ISO. Like it been a min b4 I played with him and maybe he's normally that fluffy but I'll find that out when I dive a little.

I explicitly said I WASN'T hard TRing Magik.

[Tejate Raichu]

@Andante

If you actually read my posts carefully, I didn't say I was scumreading Scorpious. I said that they give off more of a confused vibe than a raw townvibe/scumvibe, and I want to think more about whether the confusion expressed is more likely to come from scum or town. It feels both you and Nero are reading what you want to read in my posts, rather than what's actually there.

And yes, I do want to give Magik a pass for today. I think it would be silly to elim someone who is actually contributing when an easy scum strategy in this playerlist is just the classic "kill the smart people". I'm saying they're town enough that I don't really want to eliminate them right now unless something major changes in the gamestate.

[Tejate Raichu]

I have to go to dinner, but I'll respond to Nero real quick. For one, while I haven't been here long, I have perused some of the completed games. And I have to say, I agree with the assessment a lot of people have already expressed that this playerlist has a lot of troll-y limbait players in it. Killing off smart town early and letting the limbait limbait would definitely be a good idea for scum.

As for other reads, how about I start with you two? You, I'm not sure on yet. I feel like your perspective is just as likely to come from town as it is to come from scum trying to get an easy mislim.

Andante, their reasoning is already setting off alarm bells in my head. I do not really appreciate this level of straight up ignoring context in order to push a wagon that already has several votes on it.

[Tejate Raichu]

@Andante

If you actually read my posts carefully, I didn't say I was scumreading Scorpious. I said that they give off more of a confused vibe than a raw townvibe/scumvibe, and I want to think more about whether the confusion expressed is more likely to come from scum or town. It feels both you and Nero are reading what you want to read in my posts, rather than what's actually there.

And yes, I do want to give Magik a pass for today. I think it would be silly to elim someone who is actually contributing when an easy scum strategy in this playerlist is just the classic "kill the smart people". I'm saying they're town enough that I don't really want to eliminate them right now unless something major changes in the gamestate.

Nah I'm pretty sure I read your post, I just find it odd your focus is "I'm giving these people passes cause they had a strong start!" like, the start of the game is super easy for both alignments, I'd even argue there's been no major significantly towny reasons to TR people, so you going "Strong start from Magik! I'm not limming magik for 2 days!!" like, what happens if magik continues just existing? Like, I'm not arguing Magik hasn't had decent lines, but nothing I've seen thus far isn't easy to also do as maf.

I felt like this should have been fairly obvious, but I guess I need to clarify: unless there is a big change in gamestate or play from Magik, I don't see a reason to go full paranoia mode from the outset. They could certainly be scum, but I am comfortable not worrying about that possibility right now. If Magik is scum, we should have time to figure that out. It's a large theme and a lot of the players haven't posted yet.

Andante, their reasoning is already setting off alarm bells in my head. I do not really appreciate this level of straight up ignoring context in order to push a wagon that already has several votes on it.

Alarm bells? cause I don't TR you? lol

Interesting thing to imply that I'm SRing you because you don't TR me. I have absolutely TR'd people that have scumread me, so no this isn't OMGUS. The issue is that I can't see where you are coming from if this is with a town mindset. Your posts do not smell of wrongtown, they smell of scum making their first push of the game on a viable looking wagon.

[Tejate Raichu]

You know what, let's just make it official since this is probably the first thing I've seen all game that I actually really don't like.

VOTE: Andante

Mutual scumreads 4 lyfe.

[Tejate Raichu]

280, feels very much like they're searching for reasons to hop onto my wagon where they don't realistically need that many. As if they're trying to build a strong case against me so they can push me as the main wagon later in the day.

287, subtle shade without actually trying to engage my slot. I don't think asking for thoughts on other players is very unusual or particularly scummy, but the way it's phrased in this post just has some ineffable bad energy about it for me. It feels agenda driven rather than earnest.

[Tejate Raichu]

Actually, thinking it over, maybe it became a bit more effable. This was in response to hellbooks suggesting they wanted to sort Andante. It feels like the purpose of the first bit of 287 was to try and push that thinking more onto my slot. I don't really see much real non-meming Andante/hellbooks interaction outside of this, so it kinda set me off that hellbooks specifically was asked for their opinion on me. By the person hellbooks stated they had intent to sort over others.

[Tejate Raichu]

Like, if Andante has an agenda, I don't think "he's saving me to kill later" is it.

Not really so much that as pushing me as a main wagon later on in the day by building a foundation early. They definitely are pushing me now.

Also Andante, you are... definitely not my only voter. Unless I miscounted somewhere or someone unvoted I have 4 votes on me right now. If you meant my only serious voter, I really don't think that's true either? I'm a bit confused by this whole schtick. And I'm not defaulting to calling you maf, I am scumreading you based off of your interactions with my slot so far. I am not really the type to have confident scumreads this early, but my gut right now says that putting pressure on you is not a bad idea. More of a scum-lean.

[Tejate Raichu]

No, it's specifically the manner in which Andante seems to be pushing that seems less than kosher to me. I didn't hand out scumreads for Nero or momo just for scumreading me, ad I don't feel as though I'm doing that for Andante either.

[Tejate Raichu]

<snippy snippy>

Ignoring Innocent Child roles and other mechanical reasons (e.g. Night 0 cop checks) to confirm a town early, some people can be read really easily by the effort which they push the game from a standstill, or through meta reasoning. Tejate seems to believe that it's far more likely that my attempts to get the ball rolling are from town than scum (assuming I'm reading his posts correctly), and though he's hesitant to townbin me too early in fear of me just being a ridiculously strong scum with an amazing opening (A presumption here, but I have seen this sort of thing turn on people too when an early townread turns out to be more manipulative late) decided I wasn't worth looking into so early. Could be he simply thinks I look town enough for now that he doesn't want to spend his time looking deep into a fairly active poster he believes got a strong town start until there's more evidence? Sems the most likelt scenario in my eyes, seconded only by a scum pocketing attempt.

<also snip>

It also ignores that Tejate later said that I had to at least maintain some of my current behavior to remain in this state, and that it wasn't going to exclude me from attention should I start to behave more strangely, which kind of leads me to believe that it really is just a fancy "I'll look at you later" line that's being taken far more strictly by you than them.

You and Fire both understand what I actually meant, yes.

STD is STD..

Playstyle is 100% NIA.

+1, this is pretty much exactly how I saw them post as town in my newbie. This is very much NAI for them from my perspective.

[Tejate Raichu]

Imagine wanting to eliminate someone because you are scared of their scum game...

I'm not particularly surprised by that, to be honest. Doesn't mean I'm really liking what Frog's pushing so far but it's a fairly common logical error I see people make in this sort of game. Especially when one player is significantly better than most players in a group, I've noticed people get more antsy to toss them directly into a nearby active volcano. Is it a good reason to want to kill Magik? No, not really. Is it something I have seen from town countless times? Yeah.

[Tejate Raichu]

Are you volunteering?

[Tejate Raichu]

I'm kind of waiting to see if Frogster has anything more to add. Their case so far seems to just be "I scumread them last game" with no actual substance as to what they're reading into this game or how it even relates to last game. I'm also interested that they're picking me as a potential partner. Is it because I proposed to give them a pass for today, despite the people that actually understood in the thread re-explaining that it was always a conditional thing? Is it because Magik isn't townreading me? I'm not really sure I understand this backwards associative you're drawing between us. Or are they independent reads, in which case why are you jumping on a vanity wagon for Magik instead of joining a wagon with several votes on it already on one of your scumreads?

[Tejate Raichu]

and is Toog a normal troll slot?cause it looked liked they started trying then went flat..

no, what they're doing is out of character for them as either alignment based on a quick metacheck.

Meta is a generally worthless metric anyways.

Last game I was in there were a ton of meta arguments thrown around, and I think maybe one or two of them were actually correct. The rest were causing us to TR scum or SR town.

[Tejate Raichu]

The lesson I learned from that whole incident is that meta can provide context, but it's not really a good reason to commit to a read in and of itself. Which is a very large part of why I'd like Frogster to continue with their case on Magik horse, I want to see how much of it is actual substance.

[Tejate Raichu]

Also I think it's kinda funny that my name has the same initials as townread's shorthand. That wasn't planned, I only picked this name cause Tejate was already taken.

If it gets confusing at any point, you can call me Tej.

[Tejate Raichu]

ty for that info
i don't think ur vote is bad so u got that going for u.
now where is the movie reviews i was promised in signups

I won't post a review, but as promised I will let you know whether or not there is an Infernal Affairs musical number when I watch it.

[Tejate Raichu]

Imagine wanting to eliminate someone because you are scared of their scum game...

Imagine getting game over'd just because people are caught in a Curse of Darkness.
Happens to me far too often.
Too busy reading the gimmick, and not what I'm actually saying usually...

To be fair I haven't played the game and trying to understand half of what your saying is difficult. The other half is all context clue driven. Still makes it a pain, and I don't want to go through the hasslt of asking what you mean every single time (such as with posts like this one).

I play Isaac if you want any help translating.

I think they're trying to say here that people are voting them because of uncertainty about their slot than an actual solid read based on what they've posted.

[Tejate Raichu]

That being said, despite being able to understand most of what Keeper is trying to say, I don't feel like they've posted as much content as they allude to.

[Tejate Raichu]

Nero, I don't mind gimmicks, but Keeper has really had a lot of nothing posts. Is there any real reason to go to bat for them right now? You're drawing an associative between Fire and Keeper based on the reason for voting, but do you see anything scummy about Fire or town about Keeper individually? Like, at all?

[Tejate Raichu]

Galron locktown.

[Tejate Raichu]

Nero, I'd really appreciate some answers to the questions I posed on 442.

[Tejate Raichu]

nope don't really care to respond

I don't think I've ever seen someone respond to a post like this with "no I actually won't give my thoughts". Very bold.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nero Cain

Would some motivation help you think of some answers, I wonder?

[Tejate Raichu]

I'm more curious what on God's beautiful green earth makes you confident enough in Keeper being a limbait townie that Fire is pushing to the point where you're going to bat for them this hard right after Fire pushed them. You can say that you're more scumreading Fire than defending Keeper, but that doesn't really explain the timing being just perfect.

[Tejate Raichu]

You put your vote on them at the exact point in the thread where people are starting to be more critical of Keeper's slot in particular. So why only vote them now if you're scumreading Fire already?

[Tejate Raichu]

Okay, let me restate. Nero voted for Fire at the point of the thread where actual pressure is starting to build on Keeper. Nero then defends Keeper by stating that Keeper intended to essentially active lurk and do nothing productive all game which... doesn't make Fire's reason for voting not valid? And then plays it off by saying they already scumread Fire earlier in the thread.

[Tejate Raichu]

... I misread the thread.

UNVOTE:

[Tejate Raichu]

dude, they are a hardclaimed gimmick alt. It's not that they are "hiding" its just this alts gimmick play and those have always been around and you know it. This "overusing gimmicks is a scumtell" is very black and white.

DIE U SITH LORD

So a hardclaimed gimmick alt is overusing thier gimmick after admitting that they'll be mostly gimmick playing. Yeah, not buying this thought procsess.

I admit fault where there is, I really thought I saw you vote and that's my bad for not checking. I wouldn't say this is exactly not a defense, though.

[Tejate Raichu]

is Fire town, TR?

I haven't seen anything overtly scummy, but I'm not committing to a townread. Based on what I do know of their play, I don't think they're the type to really tip their hand this early in the game. I'm going with null for now.

[Tejate Raichu]

Eh I guess Nero is town after all.

Could I ask what in particular you think looks town about these recent posts?

[Tejate Raichu]

Tejate, do you have any reads you'd commit to at all? Like hot dang, you're being super noncommittal all over the place.

I tend to be this early in the game. Most people always crawl into or around my null slot day 1 unless I feel super confident on them.

That being said, I'd say momo seems at least a little townie. CSF and Scorpious I'd go with a cautious town-lean on. Keeper I need to see more content for but so far I don't like the look of this slot. Andante is still my main SR at the moment, though I find this Nero thing a bit weird. The Keeper thing, not the part where I accused him of something he didn't do because I'm illiterate.

[Tejate Raichu]

Sa'll good, I almost thought I did slip. I've been trying to get better at it, my brain is still hard wired to assume he/him.

[Tejate Raichu]

Not usually, actually. If I'm scumreading someone over that it's usually more because of another reason than just that alone, but clearly I'm not seeing what you are. Sometimes the fruit hangs low for a reason. I have seen little to indicate that Firebringer is simply pushing them just because they're an easy push, if he wanted to do that, I think there is some much lower hanging fruit in this player list.

Also I'm sure you can gather this from context, but it means low hanging fruit magikhorse. As in, Keeper would be a very easy push.

[Tejate Raichu]

Scorpious I'd go with a cautious town-lean on

wait what's townie about Scorpious?

Call it gut. I said I was going to consider them, and I did. I think their early confusion and general posts after that point are a bit more likely to come from town than not, from general demeanor. It's hard to put into words, but I feel like what they're doing with their posts is a bit hard to fake accurately.

[Tejate Raichu]

I mean that wasn't really a game related statement, so understandable. On both counts.

@Magick

Confusion might not be the right word, but I remember it was something I saw very early on. Around pages 7-9, a lot of questions being thrown around at other players from Scorpious. I was trying to force myself to think about whether or not the line of thinking he was having very early on was more consistent with scum play or town play, and I came to the conclusion that it's a bit more consistent with what I'd expect from a townie.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'd say you'd pretty much right on that, though I guess you didn't see the same thing I did. I'm kind of struggling to really put it into words, but yes it was more the way his early game was rather than a specific post. It felt very natural to me, and too consistent to feel like something scum would try to do just to get townread for. I'm fairly sure scum could easily fake one or two posts like that, but keeping up what I'm seeing over an extended period like what I've observed is what I think would be difficult.

I'm usually a fair bit more confident in my D1 TRs than SRs, so if Scorpious is scum clearly I need more vigi practice.

[Tejate Raichu]

Oh, to clarify that wasn't a claim. I mentioned this in another game, I practice my reads by scrolling vigi in ToS.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'll keep this quick since it has nothing to do with the game. ToS has a feature called scrolls which gives you a higher chance of getting that role (assuming it's in the list). i.e. I go for a higher chance at getting vig and then do a little shooting practice.

[Tejate Raichu]

Yeah, I didn't think it was worth mentioning until I realized that could probably be taken as a claim out of context. But yes, the above is true.

[Tejate Raichu]

The he was directed at Nero, though I can see the confusion with how I phrased it.

[Tejate Raichu]

As in, the Keeper thing (in which I felt Nero had defended your slot) was off to me. Not the part where I accused him (Nero) of voting for Fire, which he actually didn't.

[Tejate Raichu]

Something I find a bit off doesn't speak to me quite as much for a vote than what I thought happened.

[Tejate Raichu]

andante what do you think about Galron and in particular raichu "locktowning" galron for doing his scum roleplay bit

Haven't fully caught up yet, I'd just like to say for the record that was a joke. I don't hand out locktowns very easily.

[Tejate Raichu]

First of all, I have to agree that Galron's 544 looks kind of terrible. What is exactly giving the impression that my wagon isn't going? I have seen no such thing at the time of 544 being made, and dropping my wagon for today while also saying "but they still look scummy!" isn't especially unusual on its own but given that I'm supposedly a strong scumread for them it looks... weird. Andante's recent posts are interesting, and I'll do some reconsidering of the slot.

VOTE: frogster king

I'm gonna put my vote here because they have yet to give us any actual thoughts on Magik+Tejate scumteam which is making me feel like they just wanted to inject some paranoia and then used "perfectionism" as an excuse to not actually post any info and hoping everyone just forgot they said that.

[Tejate Raichu]

keeper, what do you think of tejate

I need to borrow Bob's Brain for this one, I am inclined to think they're aiming for The Dark room instead of The Cathedral for now, though.

scumlean.

uh if you have a scumlean somewhere, why are you still voting for yourself?

Charons Obel.
Two coins.
Two votes.

I have no clue what this means. Please explain.

I play Isaac and I legitimately have no idea how Charon's obol relates to it.

[Tejate Raichu]

Regardless of the veracity of the tell, frogster really has not given me the impression of being town at all. Why even bring up Magik if the case wasn't ready? Why draw an associative to me? Why vote for Magik if the scumread on me isn't an associative? Furthermore, Frogster said the case on Magik was "mostly done", so why not give us a crumb of information as to why they actually think Magik is scum?

[Tejate Raichu]

Like really, the only thing they've said towards me being scum so far has been

- They read me right in one game nearly 2 years ago
- I'm a "good scum player"

Even if I ignore the Ellitell, this is just bad reasoning all around. If anything it feels like a Town of Salem Executioner play.

Tej the Sheriff
N1: Magik (SUS!)

[Tejate Raichu]

If we were super close to deadline right now and had to choose a wagon, Frogster or Galron would be the ones I'd be most inclined to lim.

[Tejate Raichu]

so what is ur stance on frog posts?

I haven't taken one. Frog is unmemorable to me.

You don't find anything at all interesting about claiming a hard scumread on a semi-popular TR with not even a shred of real reasoning? Scum going against the grain for the sake of it isn't exactly uncommon.

[Tejate Raichu]

VOTE: Magikhorse is one scum and my pick for the partner is

Tejate

.

vote town (magic), bus buddy (Tejate)?

it makes 0 sense to me to be pushing a Magic wagon when there was a healthy TR wagon while calling TR scum.

I'm only gonna respond to this part of the post cause I feel like I've already responded to the other two points. Just want to say, if nothing else we can agree on this. Makes little sense regardless of whether the read on me is individual or associative.

its just a bus

You sure that's a healthy amount of iocane powder to ingest? Perhaps you should have drank from the other cup after all.

Andante's recent posts are interesting, and I'll do some reconsidering of the slot.

elaborate (super important) (please put it at the top of your in-game to do list) (not clickbait)

Let me go chug like a gallon of water and I'll get back to you on that.

[Tejate Raichu]

Andante's recent posts are interesting, and I'll do some reconsidering of the slot.

elaborate (super important) (please put it at the top of your in-game to do list) (not clickbait)

I think I'm coming around on a null read for now. Null as in, I feel like I'm getting mixed signals rather than there's nothing there at all. Early posts (shortly after RVS) as I have already made apparent gave me scumvibes and I was not particularly fond of them. Their wallposts (particularly 553 and 555) gave me much more of an impression that they're actually trying to sort, even if I don't necessarily agree with every point presented in these posts. Disagreeing doesn't automatically make someone maf, and agreement doesn't automatically make someone town either. That being said, their earlier posts do still trouble me a bit and I think it might be easier to read the slot a bit later when there's more to be said. I came away from my re-read of Andante's ISO feeling conflicted more than anything.

[Tejate Raichu]

Hmmm. I'm sure you don't find it very noteworthy coming from me since you scumread me on an associative, but I'm not sure I find most of this case convincing. I can agree that waffling between me and Andante did seem a little fuzzy at the time, but most of this looks like you're trying to frame our interactions with the assumption that both us are scumpartners, rather than analyzing the interaction itself to figure out if it looks like two scum interacting.

This being said, between you and Galron I'm not getting the vibe that both of you are scum. I say this because Frogster or Galron are the wagons I'd be most okay with going all in on presently.

[Tejate Raichu]

Why aren't they both scum?

Okay, maybe I should choose my phrasing more carefully in the future. What I meant was more that I don't think a scumflip on either really implicates the other. There's no associative to draw because there's just nothing to associate.

[Tejate Raichu]

The game where Magikhorse mech specced is from a Newbie game where the setup is semi-open.

What kind of setup spec did you expect here in a large theme with a closed setup?

+1 on this, especially since we have yet to actually see much of anything relating to setup. No weird things happening during the day, no claims, nothing. I don't find myself very convinced.

[Tejate Raichu]

Actually, Frog, a question if I may. In that game specifically (Newbie 2025), while I don't like your evidence, I did notice something interesting. Skimming through scum PT and main thread, Magik uses and emphasizes the strategy of ignoring the fact that you have a partner for dayplay. Given that, why do you think scum!Magik would go out of his way to avoid taking a hard stance on scum!Me if I'm perceived as a liability in scum PT as you claim? I'm not saying Magik is necessarily town because of that, but if you're arguing for scum!Magik based on meta, doesn't this make little sense with his scum meta?

[Tejate Raichu]

I don't think that's necessary Magik. I don't think anyone has much of a reason to doubt that we joined the game together. Even if we were scumbuddies we have 0 incentive to lie about that. Also, it might be considered out of game influence.

Regardless I can't disagree that Frogster's case so far has not really inspired much confidence in the slot. I kinda want to see what the individual scumcase on me is, before I commit to a vote, though.

[Tejate Raichu]

Town: momo, N_M, Firebringer, Nero
Town lean: Andante, Cat, Keeper,
Null: (rest)
Scum lean: Radical Rat
Scum: Magik, Tejate

speaking of unnatural thought processes, N_M as one of his strongest townreads?

How do I keep missing things like this? Good catch, that's really weird and I can't tell if it's a joke or not.

[Tejate Raichu]

Regardless I can't disagree that Frogster's case so far has not really inspired much confidence in the slot.

I kinda want to see what the individual scumcase on me is, before I commit to a vote

, though.

You're already voting for him though, no?

Correct, but I also still want to see more from Galron.

[Tejate Raichu]

Maybe I won't need to reconsider my vote that much, because 757 makes me wish I could vote for Frogster twice. The burden of proof for that one is on YOU to explain why you think it's town, not on us to explain why we think it's scum. We're not the ones putting them on the extreme ends of our reads list, but you're putting them at one of your highest townreads?

What stuck out about this reads list (which is pretty much the only content post N_M has offered by the way, unless you want to count his copy paste opener) that made you want to townbin him? Do you think that scum is incapable of fabricating reads, especially ones that come without any explanation for why each player occupies that spot? What could your town motivation possibly be to read not just N_M, but any slot in N_M's situation this way?

Like, this is it. That post is effectively the entirety of the content he has brought. That is literally the only thing you could possibly read him on, and unless you can explain in detail why this makes him toptown, I think this looks really bad. I know town can be wrong and have poor reasoning, but this is a bridge too far.

[Tejate Raichu]

You should probably strongly consider throwing out a non-joke claim seeing as you are at E-2 and intent is in the very air. You -still- haven't given a proper explanation for townbinning Not_Mafia, by the way. Your reason for TRing them makes actually no sense.

[Tejate Raichu]

You guys wanna place a side bet on what Frogs will claim? I'm going all in on NK Immune Miller Vigilante.

[Tejate Raichu]

I don't think TRing N_M because scum would want him alive if he was town (which I do agree with) makes very much sense, but alright. I'm not sure how willing I am to take those types of reads at face value, although I'm certainly not scumreading a player that has provided little that would be unexpected.

So Frogs, are you going to like actually claim? Or have you just accepted fate?

[Tejate Raichu]

To be fair Nero, I'm pretty sure that reads list was a prodge wasn't it?

[Tejate Raichu]

Yeah I know. I've read some of the games in his sig.

[Tejate Raichu]

If that is indeed your real role, I would think mafia would be eager to kill you at night anyways. Scum doesn't want confirmed townies as much as they don't want outed mafia. I'm assuming a death to weak would show the same as a death to maf, so they'd just kill you to obfuscate results.

[Tejate Raichu]

part of me thinks this is an obvious scum claim and the other part of we wants to let scum nk this 2night. What to do? hrmmmm

by a show of hands who would run up RR or Fire?

I kinda still just want to lim this. If it's town, it's dead N1 and useless because mafia doesn't want to hand out free confirms, if it's maf then we get a mafia out a day later than we could have.

[Tejate Raichu]

What is wrong with those, exactly? I still think you're scum, 802 and 810 are my explaining why I don't think your role claim mechanically means we shouldn't lim you here.

[Tejate Raichu]

Now may be a good time to start discussing the setup.

[Tejate Raichu]

Well, 4 people are dead and I assume scum only has one factional kill, and even if Dwelee shot that only accounts for half the kills. So I think it's a pretty reasonable thing to be thinking about.

[Tejate Raichu]

Okay, if you think I'm mafia, then would you care to explain why you're voting Andante?

[Tejate Raichu]

Is that really TMI? I was also actively pointing out the exact same thing while trying to herd votes on Frogster, worded slightly differently. Then again you think I'm scum. Which is a little weird to me, honestly? I know I haven't had a scum game on record here yet, but I can assure you I'm not really a proponent of early hard bussing without good reason. If you really think me + Andante + FB is the solve, why would not push votes onto Radical Rat? In fact, RR's death actually is really weird to me because they were being actively scumread and proposed as an alternate wagon. I honestly thought I was going to die.

Furthermore, you were in Frogster's toptown. Given N_M was also in that list, it's hard to tell if that was TMI or scum TRing scum, but I personally didn't see very much reason to put you as toptown yesterday.

[Tejate Raichu]

I meant why not push votes onto RR yesterday. We all know now that he's town but he was a little limbaity. town!Galron would have been an alternate push as well. Given that there were 2 other viable options, why would I as scum not just flock to but actively build a wagon around my teammates in your solve? To get townread in a closed setup where it could be very well not worth the risk? I think you vastly overestimate people's eagerness to bus.

[Tejate Raichu]

I think it's likely that Dwelee is probably responsible for one. I'm not really sure which, they were gunning for Galron near day's end. I think they might have voted for CSF at some point earlier in the game.

[Tejate Raichu]

Yes, and it sure was helpful to my hypothetical scum team to hard bus Frogster out of the gate. I just needed Fire alive so badly (despite having no experience with them and thus not knowing how hard they can deepwolf) that I just HAD to hard bus my teammate. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

[Tejate Raichu]

By the way Nero, you conveniently didn't explain why scum!me in your hypothetical wouldn't push town!Galron instead. How exactly is an alive town!Galron helpful to your scum team solve? Why would you think that there's any universe where it is more helpful to lose a teammate day 1 than just push a townie who's limbaiting really hard?

Also, Fire, can you explain your read on Scorpious? N_M I understand.

[Tejate Raichu]

Yes, and it sure was helpful to my hypothetical scum team to hard bus Frogster out of the gate. I just needed Fire alive so badly (despite having no experience with them and thus not knowing how hard they can deepwolf) that I just HAD to hard bus my teammate. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

TR wasn't posting and was going to eventually go down. You've said that you'll bus when the situation called for it so why is accusing you of bussing such a crazy thought? And I'm not even voting you so not sure why you are getting all bent out of shape.

What is your take on Fire claiming that there were 2 scum bussing Frog?

I said I DON'T bus unless I have a really good reason. Please don't twist my words. If you really want to know though, first of all, I most certainly was posting and no I did not feel like I was "going down". Just being a wagon doesn't mean I give up and throw FoS on my teammate.

I'm a little surprised you seem to think bussing just for survival's sake makes sense as a tactic, or at least think I would think so. I think bussing is a valid strategy, but it's one that is extremely overused for situations where it really shouldn't be. It has its place, and most of that time its place is to sit quietly in the corner until the game is over.

[Tejate Raichu]

As for Fire's suggestion, I'm not totally convinced. If there was a busser on that wagon, it was more likely a later vote than earlier. i.e. MagikHorse, Toog, Scorpious, N_M (though I somewhat doubt N_M's vote was driven by intent so much as obligation to hammer E-1 for the memes).

Beyond that though, I wouldn't say there's much to really suggest one way or the other. There could be a busser, and there could not be.

[Tejate Raichu]

i was going to say "thats not even what I said!" but I did accidentally type TR when I meant Frog. Frog wasn't posting and dude was going to go down. I think bussing a teamate that is literally not playing is a pretty good reason to bus.

If you check the votes list again, you'll see that I was the third person to vote for Frogster. And if you check the thread, I was actively campaigning for their death before and after they posted their "solve". I was full ready to retract my vote if I liked what I saw, but their post made me pretty comfortable in my initial suspicion. Furthermore, if I wanted to bus because they "weren't playing", couldn't I just like... ask about it in the scum PT instead of just going all in? It feels like you're actually doing something very similar to Frogster yesterday that made me hard scumread them after their solve in the first place: you aren't actually trying to figure out my slot's alignment through my actions, you are assuming the worst about my actions and then explaining why my actions are scummy (because you are already assuming from the outset that they are scummy).

VOTE: Nero Cain

Hey, if you want to turn yourself into today's wagon then be my guest. I'd be happy to go 2 for 2 on finding scum.

[Tejate Raichu]

I just explained that you are doing essentially the exact same thing Frogster was doing yesterday while trying to build up this big case about how I bussed Frogs. This is not OMGUS, I would be happy to throw you directly into the Grand Canyon as it stands. Give me an actual reason my actions look like bussing instead of just saying I bussed and explaining why I would bus. Explain how it looks like bussing in the first place.

[Tejate Raichu]

I misread, fourth. Whatever. Regardless, you don't have an actual reason to suspect me of bussing. You STILL haven't explained why leaving town!Galron alive instead of pushing day 1 makes any goddamn sense for your solve by the way. Your RR reason is already extremely presumptuous at best, as it assumes your solve is already correct.

[Tejate Raichu]

Your RR reason is already extremely presumptuous at best, as it assumes your solve is already correct.

RR is dead flipped town, why would he be in my solve?

You said that your scumteam solve would keep RR alive "because they were defending Firebringer" which is operating under the assumption that Firebringer is scum. How long to plan to keep evading my question by the way?

[Tejate Raichu]

I said town!Galron as in "under the assumption that Galron is town". That's what the ! means. I didn't say that for RR because we already know their alignment.

[Tejate Raichu]

Why is Toog town if I am scum? That seems like a huge reach.

[Tejate Raichu]

So in other words, not "if I am scum Toog is town" but "if your entire solve is correct Toog is town". I'm actually quite happy with my vote currently.

[Tejate Raichu]

I don't think confidence is AI, I pointed it out because I thought it was weird that Toog warranted a special mention when your reasoning for them being town is essentially "I'm so confident that I'm right, that Toog is town if I'm right". Like, yes, your solve implies that Toog is town because in your solve Toog isn't scum. Why did this warrant mentioning?

[Tejate Raichu]

Your other comments are reads. Toog is just "if my solve is correct, Toog's position in my solve is correct". It's circular logic.

[Tejate Raichu]

Town-lean: momo, MagikHorse
Null-town: Scorpious, StD
Null: the rest of you
Null-scum: N_M (mainly for Frogster's weird toptown read on this, I don't think he's actually done anything AI)
Scum-lean: Galron, Nero

In other words, I need to think more about the null group.

[Tejate Raichu]

Took you long enough to put your money where your mouth is. Today should be relatively interesting, then.

[Tejate Raichu]

Regardless of what I think of your case, one thing was pretty clear to me: you have a lot more words you can put behind suspicion of me than suspicion of Andante. Considering you are not the entirety of the town, I would think you'd want the first person you push to be someone you believe you could actually case to convince the rest of the town to vote. Doesn't matter if you are 100% sure you are correct, the rest of the people here aren't.

[Tejate Raichu]

Took you long enough to put your money where your mouth is. Today should be relatively interesting, then.

Flashwagon on Nero?

You can vote for us both, I wouldn't want to encroach on your previous commitments.

Also I'm gonna back off from the thread for a bit until other people start dropping in. I feel like I've said all I've need to say.

[Tejate Raichu]

@Andante

I'm not saying there wasn't a scum on the wagon, there may very well have been. I'm saying I don't think it's very likely that scum would be that eager to vote early, and more likely to vote later when it's clear that Frogs was going down. i.e. hellbooks, StD, Scorpious gain a little bit of towncred from me for that. I think this is especially likely given that we now know that every single one of the middle voters was town.

Also tbf Andante, isn't this sort of N_M's schtick? I can get wanting to policy a player that is likely never going to be very readable, but I didn't find that particularly AI. I just found it particularly Not_Mafia.

[Tejate Raichu]

Why do you think Nero is town Andante?

[Tejate Raichu]

To be fair, maybe I'm giving StD more towncred than he deserves. I just feel like I've seen nothing I'd consider particularly unexpected from him, but then again I feel like this is more of a playstyle thing than AI.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'm actually pretty cozy with my vote at the moment.

[Tejate Raichu]

like this is oddly specific, no? Why is it 2 and not 1?

Why is it not all 3?

Well other than the fact that Fire's not on the wagon and he can't say he's bussing.

Speaking of oddly specific.

How do I keep missing things like this?

[Tejate Raichu]

Well if there's any questions I'm gonna be out so they'll have to wait until later.

[Tejate Raichu]

Supporting a naked vote with another naked vote. Interesting. I'd like to see some elaboration from the both of you, actually.

[Tejate Raichu]

So you really don't have any actual reason of your own to want to vote me? No original thoughts, just following hellbooks?

Magik, can I ask your thoughts on Nero's case?

[Tejate Raichu]

Gonna go for a bit, I just want to add that if Nero is scum, I find it very likely that Keeper is a partner. The reason I didn't list this in my reads is because I try to keep my associatives on people with unconfirmed alignments to a minimum.

[Tejate Raichu]

I "glossed over" it because what am I supposed to say to that? Of course you think your own opinion about "Magik town, Tejate bussed scum" is correct, it's your own opinion.

As for the second point, people talk around eachother in this game all the time. Of course I'm not going to be convinced that I'm scum, I asked because I wanted to see where your thought process is at so I can determine whether this argument is more likely to come from town or scum. And I think it's a fair bit more likely to come from scum given your day 1 and day 2 play so far.

Also, you sure do have an interesting definition of PoE. Your reasoning for Toog being town is because of PoE and not the reverse situation where you townread Toog which therefor makes me scum in your solve. Which, by the way, makes no sense from a town perspective. That is why I pointed it out in the first place, yet you keep dodging this point like your life depends on it.

Your arguments don't strike me as wrongtown at all, they strike me as scum going for an opportunistic push.

[Tejate Raichu]

You don't see what my response to a specific point you brought up 1036 has to do with anything?

[Tejate Raichu]

I have explained several times what I think is scummy about your play and I'd rather not spend the entire day repeating myself. If you want to know why I think you're scum, my ISO is right there.

[Tejate Raichu]

Considering you are the one who has by far the most engagement with my slot today, AND that I'm a scumread for you, I'm a bit baffled that you are even asking. Did you just not pay attention? Because if so that does the opposite of increasing my interest in going over this again.

[Tejate Raichu]

I still say that I haven't really seen anything AI from Not_Mafia but if you guys really want to policy that badly maybe we should just let a vig handle it. There's most likely more than one give the death count.

[Tejate Raichu]

Hmm, alright. If it's not policy then I guess that's different. Regardless a N_M wagon doesn't sound very exciting to me right now with how I'm reading the slot. I'm not opposed, but it's not really my first choice, especially not if we have even one vigilante left alive.

By the way,

@mod

can we get a VC please?

[Tejate Raichu]

VOTE: Tejate

So did you actually read day 2 or is this still your "day 1" read?

[Tejate Raichu]

N_M said he would hammer either one of us. Because that's what he does. Why are you acting like this is some big brain town play to hammer me from N_M when this is how he normally plays?

Also good job discrediting an entire wall of responses that doesn't even completely align with my opinions with a one liner.

And don't get so cocky about getting me out, we still have plenty of time for things to sort themselves out. So please stop talking as if this is something that's been decided, because it's really not. 5 players have yet to cast their votes and several have yet to consolidate theirs. I fully intend to send you to the pits of Tartaurus this game day.

Finally, a question: do you really intend to keep going with your solve on a townflip from me? You're really just gonna go straight to Toog like nothing weird happened today at all? Is that actually your plan?

[Tejate Raichu]

You're really good at not subtly avoiding important questions, anyone ever told you that?

[Tejate Raichu]

Perhaps it's a waste of time to bother trying to get anything more out of you given your apparently high evasion state. I'll ask a question for some others then.

@Firebringer, MagikHorse, Scorpious, Save the Dragons

Is there anything stopping you from voting Nero right now?

[Tejate Raichu]

Only gonna respond to one part since the rest is pretty much just repeated arguments:

What exactly is the issue with not having a solid read on Fire? I outright stated, very early on, that I think Firebringer is a slot that is more likely to show alignment later than sooner. Postcount matters little in my opinion compared to actual gamestate progression, and we are on day 2 with only a hint of an idea of what the setup is. So what, is it scum indicative to have null reads on day 2 of a large theme? Is this really the caliber of argument that gets 3 people on a wagon?

[Tejate Raichu]

I put N_M in null scum because he has given me nothing to work with and he was in Frogster's toptown as an against the grain read for a bizzare reason that actually made no sense whatsoever. I townread momo regardless of the reads list and I don't think scum would be so foolish as to put their entire team in toptown. Firebringer, they're more in null because they have given me some things to work with (compared to N_M at least) and I'm not sure where they're actually leading me yet. And you? Well, you conveniently left out the fact that you were, in fact, in Frogster's toptown and I already thought your slot seemed a little scummy from prior engagements on day 1. So, if you can put aside your overwhelming confidence for a second, can you see why town!me might be just a wee bit suspicious of your slot?

Of course, you won't do that. I expect to continue hearing schtick of saying "but you're not town!!!" instead of giving any other situation even the slightest bit of attention because it's totally reasonable for town to expect a perfect gamesolve on the second day and just not care about anything else while being evasive and dismissive to any discussion isn't just naked votes agreeing with your assessment. So before you write that into your next post, keep it in the drafts. I get the gist.

Also, what makes you say that scum need to know the setup more than town? I understand that it's easy for scum to talk about the setup, but that's also because it's easy for town to talk about the setup. I'm not sure what makes you think that's particularly scum leaning.

[Tejate Raichu]

So, it would seem I have no real backing for a Nero wagon at all. Well, can't say I didn't try I suppose.

UNVOTE: Nero Cain

I'm not really sure who I want to vote now.

[Tejate Raichu]

So, just to clarify, you think I pushed Frogs to save my own skin because I'm a scum PR, but I would rather die today than my buddy despite, according to you, being a scum PR?

[Tejate Raichu]

<snip> i still feel like tej is scum. frog picking him as a partner and then steering totally clear of him stinks. but idk what to make of the double magikhorse/andante chainsaw there
i think you are town with your d2 play

What exactly about my play today strikes you as a chainsaw defense of Andante? I didn't force Nero to unvote, I called Nero's naked vote on Andante scummy and explained why I thought so. Nero was the one who decided to shift to me.

Furthermore, what do you think of Nero's chainsaw defense of Keeper on day 1?

[Tejate Raichu]

I called Nero's naked vote on Andante scummy and explained why I thought so.

no? you asked me to explain my reasoning after the naked vote but you didn't call it scummy at least not initally.

Why are you not voting any of your scum reads?

I'm not all that eager to hop onto a wagon right away while I'm still considering a sizable chunk of players. Besides, surely you understand that the moment any interest wagoning you shows itself I'm going to immediately vote you again, right?

i meant that andante and magikhorse are both insisting that youre town. sorry about the confusion

I wouldn't really call that chainsaw, neither of them have really been attacking Nero to defend me. Andante openly stated a townread on both of us, and Magik doesn't seem to have his mind made up yet so we'll see. Appreciate the clarification though.

[Tejate Raichu]

Good for you.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'm not sure why you guys are scumreading Magik for not being here when he's clearly stated that it's got nothing to do with the game. Oh, Magik posted as I was writing this.

[Tejate Raichu]

I think we've established pretty firmly your thoughts on who you think it was.

[Tejate Raichu]

Regardless, I can very much agree with Magik that Galron and Keeper's slots do not look very good. I'm a bit less inclined on Keeper, but if we ever got a Nero scumflip I would definitely push to turbolim them. Andante I need to think about, they've certainly said some things today that have given me more than a little pause.

[Tejate Raichu]

now today they're just sort of coasting with Nero.

you're not wrong. im getting complacent and demotivated due to the game state, which is intersecting with life kind of blowing up this week. im starting to focus more on solving outside of the people ive been talking about though.

Personally, I'm still a little surprised at how easily everyone seems to be townreading Nero here. I really don't think aggressively pushing a case like this is necessarily townie on its own, and I don't really trust the meta case for it. People adapt, and I would be rather surprised if a player that's been on site for so long didn't.

i also want andante to elaborate on what she thinks about other slots than tejate.

uh what? I'm voting momo and explained why momo is maf. Tejate town, Magik maf.

so magik maf momo maf tejate town, and no one else is memorable

okay reading this I think you are overstating how much you elaborated on these reads... i guess if you're disavowing them then it doesnt matter as much and i read that as town sort of getting demotivated with the weird pace of the game. but you sort of created a dichotomy between magik and tej and then deemed tej to be town and so... magik is scum by poe? i find it way more scummy that frog threw out tej as a partner and then basically never elaborated on it or committed to it.

I agree that Andante's arguments are a bit off-kilter, but I'd like you to consider something for a moment. With the gamestate the way it was, is there any motivation for Frogster providing a "scumcase" against me? If they were town, they probably would have even if they were going down, but for scum there's no point if it looks like you're the wagon for the day. In fact, it may have actually been better not to with scum!Frogs and town!Me, specifically BECAUSE it draws an associative. This is actually contributed to why I didn't ultimately move my vote, a townie would most likely still want to finish their casing of my slot. If anything, I feel like scum!Frogs would have committed to their case of scum!Me even harder when it looks like they're going to flip, instead of doing whatever they were doing in those last couple of hours.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'm really not loving Keeper's posts today. They said they would be careful with their vote, and yet they're insisting that Magik was "the correct mechanical vote" when it's pretty obviously never going to be anything more than a vanity wagon today. First of all, no, second of all, why is that the correct mechanical play? Beyond this they still haven't really said much beyond the gimmick aside from shading my slot by just nodding along with Nero's early D2 posts. I said I'd kill Keeper on an associative with Nero, but I'm starting to drift into I would kill Keeper period territory. And not on policy.

[Tejate Raichu]

VOTE: Keeper

Keeper's recent posts pushed me over the edge into individual scum-lean. I feel pretty decent about placing my vote here.

[Tejate Raichu]

Frankly I don't find Galron's push impressive and if one flipped scum I wouldn't really say that clears the other. Time is short and we still have yet to decide on a wagon, Andante was already a clear option. I'll be willing to move my vote if we really need to, but I'm fairly sure I have seen absolutely nothing townie from Keeper the entire game, even reading past their gimmick.

[Tejate Raichu]

I said I think a Nero scumflip makes a scumflip on you much more likely. I also said that my vote on you is based off of individual read, and have emphasized several times that I actually try not to let unflipped associatives taint my view of a slot. Through your own posting in a vacuum, even ones where I assume Nero's alignment to be town mind you, I think your slot looks pretty significantly scummy. And yes, I obviously think you're limbait no matter what on policy votes, but this is also not a policy vote. Just so this is unambiguously clear: I think you are likely to flip red EVEN IF Nero is town. But, if Nero is scum, then that makes it even more likely in my eyes.

I'm also a bit surprised by the "I have searched every post in your ISO" line because you have also included more than one post that was most definitely in RVS, including my very first one in the thread. Seeing as there's no real analysis of said posts you don't like and it's pretty much just "here are all the posts with my name in it", it kinda makes me question whether you actually read the posts you searched for to come to the determination that I just have to die today.

As for "being a ditto" you can call it OMGUS if you'd like but my reasoning for Nero is much the same as my reasoning for voting Frogs: I think the way their argument is constructed is more likely to come from scum than town. I understand that reading a 1v1 might not be very entertaining, but if you did actually read it you'd see that throughout the whole thing I was trying to get Nero to clarify his position.

And, for the record, I still don't buy your "optimal vote" thing. Why bother trying to get a reaction out of one of the least likely players to be scum right now? It doesn't strike me as very consistent with someone who outwardly stated that they want to be careful with their vote. The fact that one your townreads is questioning this should tip you off on how bad your vote looks. I think Andante comes away looking bad from it as well, actually, I feel like their reasoning for the vote is about as impressive as yours is.

[Tejate Raichu]

don't worry TR, I still know you are scum. I don't buy for a second that you that you were legitimately concerned that I was scumreading you.

Yes, thank you I understand that you scumread me and are 100% convinced your solve is correct. You don't need to keep bringing it up every single time I post if you have absolutely nothing to add.

[Tejate Raichu]

I said I think a Nero scumflip makes a scumflip on you much more likely. I also said that my vote on you is based off of individual read, and have emphasized several times that I actually try not to let unflipped associatives taint my view of a slot. Through your own posting in a vacuum, even ones where I assume Nero's alignment to be town mind you, I think your slot looks pretty significantly scummy. And yes, I obviously think you're limbait no matter what on policy votes, but this is also not a policy vote. Just so this is unambiguously clear: I think you are likely to flip red EVEN IF Nero is town. But, if Nero is scum, then that makes it even more likely in my eyes.

You haven't expanded on why.

Which do you want me to expand on, why I think you're maf or why I associate you with scum!Nero?

I'm also a bit surprised by the "I have searched every post in your ISO" line because you have also included more than one post that was most definitely in RVS, including my very first one in the thread. Seeing as there's no real analysis of said posts you don't like and it's pretty much just "here are all the posts with my name in it", it kinda makes me question whether you actually read the posts you searched for to come to the determination that I just have to die today.

I included every, single, post. Barring an unvote or something that wasn't involving me but in a quote wall. This is the wrong account if you're expecting PbP analysis. Those posts are there for people to make their own conclusions from, I gave my thoughts.

Absurd. You may as well post my entire ISO next, so that people can draw their own conclusions on whether or not I'm scum.

As for "being a ditto" you can call it OMGUS if you'd like but my reasoning for Nero is much the same as my reasoning for voting Frogs: I think the way their argument is constructed is more likely to come from scum than town. I understand that reading a 1v1 might not be very entertaining, but if you did actually read it you'd see that throughout the whole thing I was trying to get Nero to clarify his position.

By being a ditto, I mean you're pretending to be something you're not, in this case, town. You're far to LAMIST from that flip and have been continuing that vibe.

Funnily enough, this part of this post may be the only thing I have seen town glimmers from all game. That seems like a believable enough reason to scumread me compared to some of your other day 2 play.

And, for the record, I still don't buy your "optimal vote" thing. Why bother trying to get a reaction out of one of the least likely players to be scum right now?

it was never for sale, I never put a price on it. The thing is it's not just Magik's reaction I was looking at...

Interesting that a naked vote on a widely townread player is the avenue you choose to pursue to look for reactions. Explain why this is more valuble to look for reactions than any other possible vote. This feels like an excuse, especially given the explanation directly below this.

It doesn't strike me as very consistent with someone who outwardly stated that they want to be careful with their vote. The fact that one your townreads is questioning this should tip you off on how bad your vote looks. I think Andante comes away looking bad from it as well, actually, I feel like their reasoning for the vote is about as impressive as yours is.

<snip>
I also never said I wasn't careful with my vote, because I ask for clarification on something, doesn't mean I'm saying I do the thing [/quote]In this very explanation (which I have cut out for the sake of making editing this post easier), you suggest that there's a possibility that you won't switch your vote off of the first. In fact, I'd like to actually expand on a specific post quoted here.

Correct, my second vote locks in.
The pressure comes later, A maximum of two votes, makes my first one VERY potent and my second one deadly.
The limitation maximises my potential - no matter what game you play, you know the higher damage is almost always better.

Why limit your votes like this, like what's the point

---

I've liked FB's recent posting.

Fun.

My vote is my only tool.
A player whom thrownstheir vote around like Monstro creates no pressure and no insight.

My votes show exactly whom has earned my Blood[y]Lust.

Will my first vote stand? Or will it move?
Will my dedication to locking in that second vote - which often comes with a tunnel - stir the pot enough to force scum to out?

The bolded actually makes me question this even more. You have 0 stated reasons as to why you wanted to vote Magik in particular, yet you're claiming that this was to get reactions from the crowd. And despite this, in defending your vote you call back to this post where you mention that your "vote

s

" show who you has earned your vote through their play, i.e. I can only assume this means you'll use both votes on people you think are scum. So I'll ask again: why did you vote Magik in particular?

[Tejate Raichu]

don't worry TR, I still know you are scum. I don't buy for a second that you that you were legitimately concerned that I was scumreading you.

Yes, thank you I understand that you scumread me and are 100% convinced your solve is correct. You don't need to keep bringing it up every single time I post if you have absolutely nothing to add.

my guy you are null reading both my scumreads (though you did say you'd vote AD if you needed to, so I guess you are retro actively saying that I'm right?) and you sat there for half the day phase not pushing your OTHER scum reads (Galron, NM) only to sheep a Keeper vote. I sorta think a town you would be more proactive.

My read on Andante has nothing to do with your solve or case against them. N_M I'm not excited on a wagon for since I only really read them off a flipped associative that could as easily have been intentional on Frogster's part. There's nothing to push N_M on in my view, if a wagon happened I'd be willing to vote for it but it's not like it's rock solid. As for Galron, I'm still not really townreading them but I think a scumflip elsewhere today would be telling of their alignment anyways. Wouldn't mind hopping on this wagon, though. Most of my reads were in null specifically because I was thinking about them, and I already thought Keeper's play was weak on day 1 so I'm not really sure why you seem to think my vote on them now is an illogical progression just because I had other reads.

[Tejate Raichu]

Well, I was about to come on to respond to Keeper's post as I've been exhausted the last few days, but...

After reading these last several pages, I'm not sure I'm seeing a universe where we have competing wagons anymore, not this close to deadline.

UNVOTE: The Keeper

I'm not going to run up Andante back to E-2, take your time I guess. I'll try to respond to Keeper anyways if a hammer hasn't happened by the time I'm done.

[Tejate Raichu]

I guess if we're that eager to end the day The Keeper thing can wait til tomorrow if I'm still alive by then. Most of what I wanted to say was covered by Magik and hellbooks anyways. Everyone okay with me doing the honors if N_M doesn't inexplicably show up right now?

[Tejate Raichu]

Good enough for me.

VOTE: Andante

Alright well, what's done is done. Now comes the part where we hope to not get slaughtered during the night.

[Tejate Raichu]

So, this looks like it's probably LiLo if Nero's numbers are right. I kinda felt like at first the scum didn't consider killing me because they think I'm mis-limmable, now I'm starting to feel like they might have been because my reads suck this game. I think I'm going to try to start from square 1 as far as reads go.

[Tejate Raichu]

Fire, do you have anything you scumread me on beyond "people I disagreed with died"?

[Tejate Raichu]

by people u disagreed with u mean people who scumread u? Yeah that is a big part of why i put in the scum pool.
considering all ur scumreads are dead excluding keeper? and they all flipped town who do u scumread now

Nero fine, I can see that. The other person in that pool was Galron though, and I don't know that I'd ever perceive Galron's slot as a real threat to my survival in this game regardless of whether or not I wanted to pressure them. And as I told Nero yesterday, I made no real effort to pivot off of Frogster day 1 when there was a pretty easy path in Galron (who we now know is town). Nero being town doesn't make me think his case against me is much stronger, it makes me think that I clearly needed to think more on his slot.

As for who I scumread, as I said, I feel like my reads have been off this game. I mean, obviously, my top scumreads are dead. I'd really like to do some reasoning

And I'm VT. My abilities are sleeping all night, talking during the day, and placing votes.

[Tejate Raichu]

Oh right, popcorn. Uhh, hellbooks claim?

[Tejate Raichu]

Not going to wait for my popcorn.
I am a VT.

Whoever is next is still next.

I feel as though scum team has to be small if we are getting this many kills a night consistently.

Considering we haven't lost yet, it's pretty likely that the scumteam is 3 and we're just in LiLo. Lower wouldn't make sense for a playerlist with that many vigilantes, higher and we'd lose. I'm honestly kind of looking forward to seeing the neighbor PT after the game to figure out what the absolute hell happened here, because it seems like town has effectively massacred itself. Honestly, I severely doubt that we even have a surviving vigilante.

[Tejate Raichu]

It's a singleball. Also, something to consider: even if we lim correctly today, there's a chance we may not be much better off for it. It seems pretty clear to me that the neighborhood was solely vigilantes, however given the nature of neighborhoods it's not impossible that a goon or even a mafia sided vigilante was among them. I can't imagine the scum PR isn't powerful given the nature of the theme and what we know of the roles so far.

[Tejate Raichu]

I haven't watched it yet, but from what I do know of the plot the protagonist is a mole in a crime ring of some sort. That probably explains the vigilantes.

[Tejate Raichu]

I haven't watched it yet, but from what I do know of the plot the protagonist is a mole in a crime ring of some sort. That probably explains the vigilantes.

Well shit. That automatically makes me think there is a traitor now.

Do you think it's possible that the vigi neighborhood actually represents the baddies, and a mafia in the neighborhood represents a mole?

I say we take a vote. If you think this this is a Mafia game, vote Mafia. If you think it's not a Mafia game, vote Not Mafia.

VOTE: Not Mafia

When I said I think there are 3, I meant 3 left and 4 total. So maybe we shouldn't give mafia an easy out to quickhammer in LiLo.

[Tejate Raichu]

Could you explain why you think I'm maf? From what I've seen you've pretty much been sheeping other people's reads the whole time, and Nero's read on me was part of a solve that conveniently ignores that even if the entire rest of the solve was correct (which it was not), it actually has nothing preventing you from being scum in it.

[Tejate Raichu]

Regardless, is it actually worth worrying about an SK today? We're in a situation where, if anything, we'd prefer a hypothetical SK to be alive. I'd have to watch the movie(s) myself to get more educated on how likely it is, but currently I feel like it's extremely likely that someone in the vigi neighborhood was scum, but since the neighborhood is most likely all dead they're never gonna claim it. So unfortunately I think that kind of takes us back to square one as far as the setup goes.

Honestly, this is why I kind of wanted to discuss the setup on day 2. I had the feeling that the neighborhood was all vigilantes, and I wanted to just outright state "hey, there's probably max 1 scum in the neighborhood so depending on how big it is maybe don't shoot within the neighborhood". Hindsight is 20/20.

Basically, I highly doubt Magik will claim anything but VT here, which means we only have one PR claim. What do you think of hellbooks claim by the way?

[Tejate Raichu]

I'm ideally going to be going into an edible induced coma shortly, so two things before I go pass out:

1) Happy birthday Magik.
2) I'm kind of debating with myself whether or not it's worth it to look into the ISOs of the vigi neighborhood. Did anyone ever get the impression that even one of them was breadcrumbing or hinting at their abilities/neighbors at all? If we could just know whether or not there was a 5th neighbor, and who it is, we might actually have something. I feel pretty comfortable in my theory about the setup given the claims so far and the theme, but it's still possible that the vigis were a neighborhood just so they're not extremely overpowered masons.

[Tejate Raichu]

also *As I scribble notes* that math means either a 5 person scum team, or 4 s and one TP.

If thats the case,then we all need to go play some lottery(or not) cause we are in major improbable odds territory with all those guns and not ONE scum being hit.

Once again, I am REALLY itching to see the neighbor thread because I really don't think it was a particularly good idea to shoot within the neighborhood.

Also, I'm pretty sure 5 person scumteam means we would have already lost today. 4 maf v 4 town = parity unless SK. If it's 4 maf, 1 SK, 3 town, our odds only look very marginally better.

Thinking from work, it feels like such a strange thing to include a role block as part of a fake claim. It could be the most clever of ruses, but the odds are too low for that.

Need to check on something else real quick, because something has caught my eye among the VT claims. Undoubtedly our remaining scum are in there. 3/5 odds of a good scum elim in there.

Does it? I actually don't think it would be particularly unusual in a situation where we have absolutely no leads on what scum PR(s) could be. Scum can absolutely make big gambits, but in this case I wouldn't really call claiming a plausible PR with a roleblock night is even that. Do keep in mind that Scorpious was also the last to claim, which means he got to claim having all of the information town has (assuming he's scum).

Not even saying I disbelieve the claim at face value, but if I were given nothing but Scorpious' claim here I sure wouldn't be townreading him for it.

[Tejate Raichu]

Does it? I actually don't think it would be particularly unusual in a situation where we have absolutely no leads on what scum PR(s) could be. Scum can absolutely make big gambits, but in this case I wouldn't really call claiming a plausible PR with a roleblock night is even that.

Do keep in mind that Scorpious was also the last to claim, which means he got to claim having all of the information town has (assuming he's scum)

.

Is this why you skipped your "turn" in the popcorn? Where you concerned about being last and having that possibility for yourlsef?

I didn't skip my turn though? I forgot that I was supposed to pass it to someone else after claiming and then immediately corrected. For the record I'm not even accusing you of being scum, I'm saying that claim alone doesn't really make me think you're more likely to be town.

[Tejate Raichu]

I don't really have much to say as far as reads yet, I went down with the sickness yesterday and I've been even more exhausted. Big thing I have to say right now is this: mechanically speaking, I think we should never lim hellbooks today. I'm going to assume that Pooky didn't include a cop of unknown sanity (I would hope at least) which means that if hellbooks is scum, by necessity, Scorpious is also scum. But scum!Scorpious doesn't actually necessarily mean scum!hellbooks. Therefor, I propose that we straight up eliminate hellbooks from the elimination pool.

As for the neighborhood, I've already given up on that. I didn't see a single thing that hints at their powers at all. Unfortunately, I think we're going to have to play this day mostly mountainous.

[Tejate Raichu]

Real assorted thought salad hours

Spoiler: Response to Magik's 1481

actually one more thing i remembere which is that fb, if you think its tej/magik that means that frog double bussed D1 which i will say is NOT like impossible (like it could have just been a kamikaze opening gambit from the scum team to bank up a ton of town cred) but i think it feels too convoluted for me to easily accept it as the truth

Quite frankly I've found this odd from the get-go, base assumptions made without any deep thought to them, and I have yet to see him really take much note of anything said towards our slots. Either he's keeping stuff to himself or he's not reconsidering much at all and running on his gut alone, using whatever logic comes to mind and ignoring everything else. It's a different breed of Fire compared to the one we've seen for the rest of the game.

Fire also claimed to hint that he was going to take a Vigi shot on N_M, which is something I think I've spotted in his ISO. That opens up a world in which a scum!Fire is in that Vigi PT and faked that to look like he fit in with the rest of the Vigis. No guarantee that it's the case, there is potentially a world where he was indeed trying to bait a scumkill albeit rather poorly, but it's a possible explanation on why he might feel the need to do that. This is that thing I noticed the other day, and if it didn't look like it was already coming down to our final big shot I'd probably push on that harder.

Fire is ultimately proving to be my biggest conundrum either way. I'll try to focus on more slots tomorrow, but my weekend has been rather busy and I've stayed up way too late as it is. I have to wonder if Fire makes anything about both the Day 1 and Day 2 elims occurring over someone poorly scumreading me though, since he seems to be shooting for those sorts of weird angles already.

On the contrary, do you think it's possible that Nero was partially scumreading Fire because they do not share a neighbor PT? Though actually given his sheer confidence in his solve, maybe that's not that farfetched. I thought we might have been onto something for a second with the claims, so I'm going to try my best to see if we DO actually have something that can avoid pure mountainous.

Spoiler: Night action analysis maybe?

<can alolan raichu even learn cut? snip snip.>

Andante

Firebringer

Tejate Raichu

Hellbooks

/Save the Dragons

poe is a bitch huh?

Ignoring what I think of this case as I'm sure everyone is aware by now, note that the bolded names are of those still alive. Of those non-bolded, we have Andante, who was limmed; and we have StD who was presumably killed by a vigi. I would rather not worry about the possibility of SK right now, remember we actually would almost prefer an SK to be alive right now than not. My point is, StD is in my mind the only person Nero Cain would have bothered shooting. And since they all shared a neighborhood, it is very likely that all vigis used their shots "efficiently" if you will, i.e. vigis would probably have claimed their target in the neighbor PT. What this means to me is one of three things: Nero's reads changed after Andante's flip and as such he did not shoot one of us on this list, Nero wanted to avoid shooting someone on this list because that someone was in the neighbor PT, or Nero was roleblocked as Scorpious claims there is a mafia roleblocker in the game (it's even possible they were roleblocked for correctly picking out the scum within the neighbors). As for what this means to me or which possibility I think is most worth exploring, I'm not sure yet. I'll get back to you when my brain is moving at more than 1 mile per hour.

Spoiler: A brief analysis of Frogsterking's "reads"

<begone, extraneous text>
Town: momo (Vigi Neighbor),

N_M

,

Firebringer

, Nero (Vigi Neighbor)
Town lean: Andante (VT), Cat (VT),

Keeper

,
Null: (rest)

Toog, Scorpious, Hellbooks

Scum lean: Radical Rat (VT)
Scum:

Magik, Tejate

<sniiiiiip>

Just to save everyone the time, I added the living people bolded, added specific living players into Frogster's originally non-specific null reads, and have included the flips of everyone who is not bolded. Now, normally I wouldn't really bother to analyze a reads list from flipped scum, especially not one who doesn't really seem to be making that much effort to live at the time of posting. But do you notice something interesting here? Frogster never puts a vigi neighbor lower than his catch all null, and in fact the only two he DOES express an opinion on are in his toptown. To me, this reads list put in context of what we know now lends some credence to the idea of a scum among the neighbors rather than just having a neighborhood for the sake paranoia hour in the PT. Given that half of his toptown are vigi neighbors, would it be a logical leap to say that one of his other toptown might be the scum in the neighborhood? i.e. FB or N_M

And lastly, something that doesn't need to be contained to its own spoiler for readability: at this point, I'm kind of willing to bet the farm on hellbooks being town. After rereading day 1, I honestly can't see their push on Frogster as malicious. It didn't appear like they were just going for towncred, they absolutely wanted Frogster dead for the same reasons I brought up later. I'm not sure most scum players are brazen enough to attempt a super hard bus like that early day 1, let alone make it anywhere near convincing. I also still lean a little town on Scorpious after an ISO skim, but not quite as much.

[Tejate Raichu]

Game seems dead. Many of those of the town faction must be feeling defeated already.

Look, I get that the situation is bad right now and I certainly don't have high confidence that we're even making it tomorrow let alone winning. But I'll be damned if we don't at least try. Speaking of trying, why make this post here instead of something actually content related? Just because we're not posting as much doesn't mean we're not thinking about the game.

this speculation of me being in neighborhood is silly. don't u think nero would shoot me if i was in a vigi hood night 1 if i was in a hood? and that i would out the hood?
Nero was scumreading me all game, if i was in a hood with him and the neighborhood all panicked on each other last night, i would be the one he shot instead i think he shot STD over paranoia.

Maybe so, maybe a hypothetical scum in the hood isn't necessarily just toptown. But I sort of doubt Frogster would put a hypothetical scum neighbor teammate below null, since his null list was kind of just a catch all "I don't have a read on them yet" and would thus give us pretty much nothing to really think about.

I can definitely see Pooky putting an all town neighbourhood in a game, especially when they're all vigs, Neighbour is a shit role where everyone gets eliminated eventually because "there has to be a scum in there", inciting that paranoia and wifom in a hood of all town vigs is definitely something I would do and I can see Pooky doing it to

this theory makes sense but also raises more questions and im not inclined to process it atm
also makes me paranoid ur neighbor but then i don't get why u would be alive at this point if u were.

I think said theory is more than likely correct myself, though I don't see the same questions you are. I haven't seen the source material myself, but if there was a group of gunmen with suspicion of a mole among them then throwing all the Vigis in a neighborhood instead of a masonry would be a flavor explanation for it with or without an actual Mafioso among their ranks. Suspicion of a mole is sometimes even worse than there being a real mole.

I agree that that is definitely a possibility, but given the deadline is not that far off, may I ask which you think is better to run with the assumption of for the rest of the day? The idea that there was a scum in the neighborhood, or the idea that there wasn't? Actually, that question can go out for everyone.

[Tejate Raichu]

this speculation of me being in neighborhood is silly. don't u think nero would shoot me if i was in a vigi hood night 1 if i was in a hood? and that i would out the hood?
Nero was scumreading me all game, if i was in a hood with him and the neighborhood all panicked on each other last night, i would be the one he shot instead i think he shot STD over paranoia.

wait a second -- why did you think that there was another vig though? are you making some deduction there?

Reread my posts. I was speculating Fire of being in the Vigi hood over one of his posts, and he's explaining why he likely wasn't in this response. Nobody currently is saying anything about there actually being an additional Vig, only suspicion that there was potentially a Mafia in the hood. I'm starting to think that assumption of Mafia being in the hood is likely incorrect.

Pedit: There's your answer Tejate, was already on that.

Then, a follow up question. If we're assuming the vigi hood was in fact all town and all of them are dead, does that make Scorpious' claim more believable to you as a townie claim? He's the only one here who's really claimed a role that has a somewhat clear tie in with the theme, at least from my view. And if there's no "mole" in the hood, then that's about the closest thing we have out in the open.

[Tejate Raichu]

@Scorpious

May I ask who would be and not be in your elim pool so far?

[Tejate Raichu]

Ah, I had a thought while I was in the shower. I seem to have a knack for figuring out informed townies and thinking they're scum, if my first game on this site is anything to go by. I just realized, my reason for scumreading Nero might actually lead us somewhere today, but it's a bit of a gamble and I'm not sure everyone will be on board.

You see, I felt more and more like Nero's case was being dishonest about how much information he really had, particularly his weird comment on Toog and subsequent backpedal. To be precise, Nero said this about Toog:

momo isn't scum. keeper is very unlikely to be scum I think given that Fire was pushing that d1.

Toog is town assuming that u r scum.

which leaves me with

Andante
Firebringer
Tejate Raichu

Hellbooks/Save the Dragons

poe is a bitch huh?

Then, he changes his statement on Toog a little bit when I point out that he doesn't seem to be townreading Toog OR have any real reason to say this is PoE.

Your reasoning for Toog being town is because of PoE and not the reverse situation where you townread Toog which therefor makes me scum in your solve.

this is nothing more than scum whine. there's only going to be a max of 4 scum in this game. if scum are you, fire and AD as I suspect then everyone else is town. Like ok, theoretically if you were to flip town then sure Toog can be the 4th scum but my read is that you are scum and I'm not going to change my read unless you flip town, wich I don't think will happen but hey!

At the time, this sort of weird dancing around Toog struck me as pretty distinctly informed. My theory is that, maybe it was. I think it's possible that Nero was townreading Toog off of posts in the neighbor PT rather than posts in the main thread. If there is a scum neighbor, I'm starting to feel like Toog was actually most likely it.

Again, this is a gamble and I don't expect anyone to follow, but at least consider this before you throw it out.

[Tejate Raichu]

2days and no wagons? What did I miss?

Side note I well and truely blew myself apart this weekend to the point there's a Strawman of me now.

Did you skip over the part where this is likely lim or lose?

[Tejate Raichu]

Right. Well regardless, I'm not getting the impression that Keeper is very invested in the game, even ignoring the need to catchup.

[Tejate Raichu]

Time to elim someone

Agreed. who’s your pool?

Knowing N_M his pool is anyone at E-1.

[Tejate Raichu]

I suppose, we should figure this out by tomorrow. Let's rip the bandaid off before the deadline is 24 hours away.

My would 100% lim pool at the moment is: Toog, Keeper.
My no lim pool: hellbooks, Scorpious.

[Tejate Raichu]

Well, like I said I'm willing to place my vote on Keeper or Toog today and I could be swayed to vote others if we really have to make a decision. But I'd like to hear from others as well, we really should rip the bandaid off and figure out who is being yeeted soon. I don't wanna be scrambling on the day of the deadline.

[Tejate Raichu]

Tej do you think there's scum in Magik/Fire or is it TvT

If Magik is scum, then I have been sheeped hardcore, I just don't see the case for it. So this is more like asking me if I think FB is town or scum.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I think this turnaround in posts from FB is weird, but perhaps not necessarily scummy? It could very easily be paranoia at deepwolf, not exactly something I haven't seen before in one form or another. I thought they'd be easier to read at this point but honestly this whole Magik/FB situation kind of confuses me. I would vote them, but they're not really my top choice. So unfortunately, I'm not sure I can really be your guiding light here.

[Tejate Raichu]

Scorpious, hellbooks, would you be okay with me just voting it right now? If we're on the wrong track here then I think we've lost anyways. I'll accept the consequences of a scum quickhammer.

[Tejate Raichu]

I'll resist the urge until I get an answer, but honestly at this point I kinda know what I want to vote for.

Also, could we all agree to vote fast night once we have our flip? If we end up losing on a townflip I want to at least get to the juicy neighbor thread to watch what just how much iocane powder the vigilantes were ingesting.

[Tejate Raichu]

Alright, I had to do a bit of fiddling to figure out how exactly the countdown feature works. I'm familiar enough with BBCode, but I wasn't on forums enough as a kid to be familiar with stuff like this.

Anyways, I'm declaring intent to vote Keeper in (expired on 2022-03-15 15:00:00) assuming no other votes are cast by then. That's about 4 hours at the time of posting.

That work for you, Scorp?

[Tejate Raichu]

VOTE: The Keeper

Remember, request fast night pretty please.

[Tejate Raichu]

Posted - Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:54 pm
Timer expired on 2022-03-15 15:00:00)

I think your timer missed too btw.

That's 15:00 at -7, the timer worked fine.

What do you make of the fact that you have not been quickhammered while you're at E-3, by the way?

[Tejate Raichu]

Question stands. What kind of being sets a 4h timer on someone?

Well, if you read, I actually wanted to outright vote you then and there but Scorpious suggested I give it at least a bit of time. Frankly I wasn't sure if you were gonna come back to the thread or not, I was waiting for other people's opinions.

Any numbers that are calculated are probably wrong, because you're counting players that can make concious effort which means you're adding N_M into that pool. N_M should never be considered as N_M is only ever a E-1 hammer vote - and thats regardless of alignment.

Well, yes. If anything that kind of makes it weirder that you haven't been quickhammered? Even if N_M is town his mere presence in the game makes E-3 effectively E-2, reducing the need to properly coordinate a quickhammer even further.

So my pool is firmly within you and Scorp, I'm fairly set on you. You waffled D1, you tried to ride the D2 credit of the scum ammer even going for the LAMIST approach, and you're in a near perfect wagon position to utilise that town credit.

Okay sure, I'll buy that town!you would scumread me for that. Mind explaining your case against Scorpious here beyond the fact that he voted you?

[Tejate Raichu]

Oh, okay. I'll keep my vote where it is then.

[Tejate Raichu]

Well, I had multiple options I could have gone with today. I don't think it's likely that you and Toog are scumbuddies. And I thought I saw something maybe even slightly townie a little earlier in the game, in fact I actually pointed it out in a direct response to you on day 2, so I'd say it's pretty bold of you to call that pretending. Also, no, I'm really not scared of seeing retaliation. There's no "oh no I'll get scumread tomorrow if I push this townie", if you are townie and you flip there is no tomorrow. I don't think you've done anything townie this game aside from that one minor thing I saw day 2, and I am willing to accept defeat if I am wrong.

[Tejate Raichu]

I am aware that effort is not the same as alignment. And if the graveyard wants to call me stupid if the game just ends here, then they can go ahead. You're not gonna goad me into voting off of you by suggesting that dead townies are going to be upset with me personally. Just like how all of town loses if we're wrong here, all of town also shares some responsibility for things coming to this point in the first place.

Yes, obviously I understood from the start that you were limbait along with half of the town, but just because someone is widely perceived as LHF doesn't make them town. And I REALLY don't believe you are town. So if the dead townies wanna put on their graveyard glasses to explain to me how obvtown you were if we lose here, then fine. Let me them do it. Not changing my vote for a hypothetical situation.

[Tejate Raichu]

I don't really have anything to add to that, both of the people in my lim pool at the moment are less influential slots.

[Tejate Raichu]

I am aware that effort is not the same as alignment. And if the graveyard wants to call me stupid if the game just ends here, then they can go ahead. You're not gonna goad me into voting off of you by suggesting that dead townies are going to be upset with me personally. Just like how all of town loses if we're wrong here, all of town also shares some responsibility for things coming to this point in the first place.

Yes, obviously I understood from the start that you were limbait along with half of the town, but just because someone is widely perceived as LHF doesn't make them town. And I REALLY don't believe you are town. So if the dead townies wanna put on their graveyard glasses to explain to me how obvtown you were if we lose here, then fine. Let me them do it. Not changing my vote for a hypothetical situation.

Who said anything about the grave..?

Still one of the least convincing things you could say in your defense, you're not gonna guilt trip me over voting you because town MIGHT be angry with me and only me at the end of the game. I'm not the only person who stated a willingness to vote you, therefor if you flip town, I'm also not the only person with responsibility just because I had the audacity to actually throw out my vote in MiLo when we're cutting it close to deadline. You know, this whole weird argument you're using actually gave me an interesting thought: town should only be angry with me at the end of the game if I'm town and we lose, doesn't make much sense for town to get angry at me postgame if I'm playing to wincon as scum. So why are you choosing to phrase this weird bizzaro world take like I'm wrongtown while simultaneously voting me in a situation where limming town loses the game?

Actually, why DO you still have your vote on me if you're town? town!Me means your combined vote with town!Fire actually loses us the game if scum is able to coordinate a quickhammer. And in the case of scum!Me, I don't think you actually have the support for a wagon on me at the moment (you need 2 more votes + N_M) considering people are scumreading both you AND Fire (the only two people on the wagon at the moment, I should mention!), and at this point it should be fairly obvious to everyone Keeper/Tejate or Fire/Tejate doesn't make a whole lot of sense as scumbuddies compared to Keeper/Fire. Does it actually make much sense for town!Keeper to keep their vote parked on me, a wagon that is likely to not go through unless I am town?

[Tejate Raichu]

Magik, may I ask who would be in your lim pool/definitely not lim pool? As I stated before, I'd really rather not be scrambling before the deadline and we're running out of time for that to not happen.

[Tejate Raichu]

I don't even know what to say to this.

[Tejate Raichu]

Not Mafia is scum, "just because."

If you want a reason. Sure. Uh...
They changed their claim, which means they lied.

Ignoring this last page of complete nonsense, this post is just... what? What do you mean N_M changed his claim? He literally claims jester at the start of every game he plays with a copypaste intro. If this is your entire case for hard parking your vote then I really don't know what to say.

[Tejate Raichu]

So is your solve Scorpious/Tejate/hellbooks then? Do you think MagikHorse is a fourth scum because he has also stated that you are in his lim pool, and Pooky is actually just dragging out a day where town already lost for kicks?