Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[Something_Smart]

marci and lily big friends. Marci enters day proclaiming that she would like to dance with lily because they are friends, that quickly disappears and she basically never talks about her again.
Its strange for someone u are good friends with imo

Wait, you scumread Harley then? or what

[Something_Smart]

But lily was Harley's slot.

[Something_Smart]

How does that change your read, then?

[Something_Smart]

I feel like Harley's probably town, her outburst at me and accompanying conspiracy theory for voting her pair seems typical of her town thinking.

[Something_Smart]

setting off all kinda tinfoils

I like this expression, it evokes a bell made of tinfoil

[Something_Smart]

You got more sorting words mate. StD and I each take different positions on you and both are reasonable, so more data please.

I mean... I think I've given

plenty

, certainly more than I've given by this time in most games.

Anything in particular you'd like to hear my thoughts on?

[Something_Smart]

If Harley got replaced by an OMGUS bot, would anyone notice

[Something_Smart]

am i the only one who thinks it could be

shiro

/

harley

VOTE: STD

Why is it even scummy to be calling you scum here? If scum-STD were trying to mis-exe T/T Shiro/Harley, there's a far easier route...

[Something_Smart]

all of you are townreading your partners / not expressing even an iota of inclination of considering leaving.

This is kind of a theme this game, honestly. It's weird.

[Something_Smart]

No point in repeating it Nancy, you are either scum with me or I have you ultra uber pocketed apparently.

If I can pocket Nancy for like four straight days, you can probably pocket her for one.

I don't recall if you've weighed in on this directly but... do you think you'd be able to pocket her as scum?

[Something_Smart]

Nancy/Shiro, StD is saying that Nancy isn't stubborn enough for my read to be valid.

Why don't you just have these conversations in the thread

[Something_Smart]

The whole conversation that allegedly happened with StD was fake. He's been offline the entire time.

...okay, I guess that's a fair answer to my question.

[Something_Smart]

Thing is if I was scum do you expect me to say, yea tottally I can pocket her.

Maybe. Not everyone is honest like this as scum, but some people are.

I think I would have scumread you for saying it here because we had so much discussion about it and you never chimed in to say that, but it's still worth asking.

(I think I would have also scumread you for saying "absolutely not" because that seems very unlikely to me.)

[Something_Smart]

But I really love how people think either me or Shiro are stupid or something, that either of us wouldn’t have pounced on the slightest thing being off from either of us in our PT.

I don't think anyone is stupid. I think you are often unrealistically confident in your reads. My source is every game we've ever played together.

[Something_Smart]

Damned if I do and damned if I dont then xD

Well no you can say "I don't know" kinda like you did, that's probably the towniest response.

[Something_Smart]

scum are mostly posturing and poisoning the well on pairings

can you clarify what you mean by this, and what the alternative would be?

[Something_Smart]

do you really think the entire team bussed marci for the lols?

I don't see why not. That pair was clearly not making it very far and only the towniest scum really matters in this setup.

[Something_Smart]

Being lone scum in this setup is very hard because you have to find a way to remove literally every other pairing

Isn't it the same pairings that have to be removed regardless of how many scum are alive? Except in the case of a S/S pairing.

[Something_Smart]

And once you identify one correct TvT pairing, scum have no win condition left if there's only one left

If there's no S/S pairing they have no wincon no matter how many scum are left though.

[Something_Smart]

Why are we playing PT telephone

Just post your takes in the goddamn thread, it isn't hard

[Something_Smart]

can someone translate whatever is going on into english, i feel very stupid right now

I wish I could

[Something_Smart]

OK, going to avoid main thread for a while.

Sigh

[Something_Smart]

This thread needs more toucan in it

[Something_Smart]

who should be the next to eat the yeet

I've already wanted to follow Taly since this is probably his last chance to do something, and everything that's happened so far has only made me want to do that more. So don't ask me, ask him, I guess.

[Something_Smart]

Not if it's Nancy

[Something_Smart]

Oh my god you sound like a stuck record

[Something_Smart]

would def be interested in Smart's thoughts there based on the PT too

There's not much in the PT. I've tried to keep it that way.

[Something_Smart]

I think you scumclaimed with this. We both know you’re better than this at reading me.

I think we should put on a different record, this one sounds like it's skipping.

[Something_Smart]

No one is shutting me up.

No, but we can ignore you. And if you keep knee-jerk scumreading everyone who looks your way, I'm going to have to because it's not healthy for the game to engage with that.

[Something_Smart]

And I think that Datisi's post was a reasonable thought; it was not anything concrete. It's good to be asking questions like that, and I hate that you are trying to bury him for being inquisitive and coming up with ideas.

(I realize I said I wouldn't engage with it and then I immediately engaged. This one felt different though so I want to clarify my position.)

[Something_Smart]

How would you feel if you poured your heart and soul into solving a game only to get all of your takes and opinions be ignored and get miselimed for your efforts?

This literally happened to me last week. It sucked, but life goes on. Get off your high horse.

[Something_Smart]

I don’t believe really believes we’re flipping scum here and neither does Ydrasse. Somehow they managed to bamboozle Taly.

Taly was the first person to call Shiro scum after the marci flip, FB was the second.

[Something_Smart]

The really worrying part of this game is that basically every scum has succeeded in pocketing their dance partner.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: SS

I caught scum. \o/

Wow this is a new one, you hallucinate that I'm talking about you and then vote me for it.

[Something_Smart]

maybe we have a s/s pair and the game is not that tragic?

Yeah I thought about that.

I want to do more dual ISO dives, those are great for evaluating S/S chance, but lolchristmas.

[Something_Smart]

4798 sounds like some version of tmi to me.

What's the TMI? Literally every person in the game except possibly Taly townreads their dance partner.

[Something_Smart]

You might want to think very carefully the specific wording you’re choosing and that’s all I will say about that.

Sorry. You imagine that I'm talking about you.

[Something_Smart]

I want to do more dual ISO dives, those are great for evaluating S/S chance

Man I really should have done this yesterday :/ I do not want to spend my holiday weekend reading ISO's but it seems like by far the best move for the gamestate to figure out which pairs have a high chance of being S/S. I'm starting to think it's a real possibility.

I can do it on Tuesday. Where does that leave us, deadline wise?

[Something_Smart]

Yes, I agree Titus.

[Something_Smart]

It's still worrying if there is though because they sure aren't making it easy for us.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe Shiro/HQ isn't a good flip because it's not likely to be S/S.

[Something_Smart]

Pooky shld slow down the clock for xmas

He already did, I thought.

[Something_Smart]

why are they unlikely to be s/s, again? they paired because they're friends.

Because I townread Harley independently.

That post is based on my own personal thoughts, not consensus.

[Something_Smart]

Truthfully as I posted in main thread, I doubt much would be different because you would have probably accepted Galron’s proposal to not sit on the bleachers. The fact is if we decide that SS is scum it obviously translates to we a townie getting limmed pre dance anyway.

What is this in response to?

[Something_Smart]

Because you think I TMI'd by observing that everyone townreads their partner? Or because of Galron?

[Something_Smart]

These are paraphrases of Shiro PT posts and I’m starting from the beginning if that’s not obvious.

Ah. I was very confused for a moment lol

[Something_Smart]

Please don't talk about that.

[Something_Smart]

Probably don't need to paraphrase posts about that.

[Something_Smart]

*blinks*

[Something_Smart]

every time i think this game cannot get worse

it gets worse

this is such a mood and I hate that I can't townread you for it

[Something_Smart]

do you think i'm an executioner here? do you think my wincon is eliminating harley and shiro? because of those two are t/t, they are a PERFECT tool for the scumteam. bullshit some nonsense reason that they're town, kiss their ass, they'll townread me, defend me, attack anyone who attacks me, and keep creating noise once people inevitably get paranoid of them.

Well, if they were T/T they would have to die for your wincon. And if they will never vote each other then the later it gets the harder it will be to kill them.

[Something_Smart]

This looks really bad for Galron. Choosing the towniest player then wanting them to endgame.

What's bad about that? Town also want to pair with town and endgame, if possible.

[Something_Smart]

I looked through S_S's and Doubting Thomas's PT, and while it is just 2 pages, which is similar to mine and S_S's PT, S_S was much more into sharing his thoughts than he has been in his and my PT, which I find interesting and worth thinking about.

That was mostly during intermission. I don't think I posted much in there afterward.

[Something_Smart]

I don't get the point of taking info from a game 2 years old, people change

This too.

[Something_Smart]

Him shouting at me to get off my “high horse” was probably one of the most antitown things I’ve ever read in any game ever. He was essentially arguing that I should just lay down and die and accept our slot being miselimed.

That's not what I meant. I wanted you to stop implying that you were going through something horrible that I could never understand.

[Something_Smart]

Well, I very much doubt that’s what I meant. I felt you were trying to shut down my legitimate frustration att because I felt I was essentially screaming at the wind and bashing my head straight unto a brick wall.

In that post you were implying that getting mislimmed after trying hard is so terrible that it's worth it to be aggressive and confrontational.

I was saying that that isn't true, because getting mislimmed is a natural part of the game sometimes.

[Something_Smart]

I do not think you should stop trying. I think that you are playing in a harmful way and "but I might get mislimmed after trying hard otherwise!" is not a good justification.

[Something_Smart]

Which players, as scum, are capable of coaching their scum partners?

Usefully? Probably nobody?

I guess it depends on the extent of coaching you're referring to. Anyone can give advice, I doubt anyone could ghostwrite posts or coach entire read progressions.

[Something_Smart]

That's also just a terrible reason to townread someone in general.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, when did you say the words 'high horse'?

4792

Harley was trying to AtE by pointing out how terrible it is to be town and try hard and still get mislimmed. This happened to me recently and I wasn't crushed the way she was implying and so I was not thrilled by the attempt.

[Something_Smart]

Terrible to tr someone for having the same thoughts as you?

Same thoughts to you isn't always terrible, but townreading someone for following consensus is usually pretty bad.

[Something_Smart]

S_S what are your reads at?

My townreads have been pretty stable. In no order, FB, Andante, GL, RH9, Alyssa, Galron.

My thoughts on which pair I individually feel is best to lim are all over the place, but I'm currently in the camp that we should follow Taly because it's likely the only chance he gets, especially when there's clearly a lot of fragmentation among the rest of the town.

[Something_Smart]

If your first post was directed at me, I didn't TR Alyssa for "following a consensus" ...

It wasn't, it was just a response to Alyssa's comment.

[Something_Smart]

FB/Andante are top on my reread list, if I get a chance to (it probably won't be until soon before the deadline). Those reads are both very old.

[Something_Smart]

If nothing else, the reread will serve to remind me why I townread them. I have only vague things in mind for both of them.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I was gonna say FB, that doesn't seem all that unusual to me.

[Something_Smart]

There’s no way in hell you thought any of that was fake.

I don't think it was fake... I think you're trying to justify the way you were playing with an appeal that didn't really work on me.

I don't doubt that you believe what you're saying, I'm just trying to convince you not to believe it.

[Something_Smart]

I prove Marci spewed cb town and suddenly he’s dropped me from his trs?

I actually just forgot to write you. I still townread you.

[Something_Smart]

And who is Taly currently voting?

I don't care who Taly is voting now, I care who Taly is voting at the end of the day.

[Something_Smart]

I don't agree with your logic on 979. I don't see why it couldn't have been distancing.

[Something_Smart]

No it sounds to me like she wanted cb dead because he was sr her.

This is a circular argument. You're assuming catboi is town and then proving catboi is town. If he was scum, then marci obviously wouldn't really be afraid of him, but it would make sense for her to post something like that for distancing purposes.

[Something_Smart]

I just felt like if S_S got upset by me, I won't be able to recover, because he's real nice and seems like a good person.

Don't worry about it, I can handle it. Implosion is great anyway, I'm glad that you look up to him.

[Something_Smart]

GuiltyLion has bad, unsupported pushes and lots of random words about irrelevant things.

Well, this not being scum indicative is the first thing that comes to mind. Clearly he doesn't think they're irrelevant, and if unsupported arguments were scummy then Harley would be all three remaining scum combined, so this feels more like a playstyle/personality clash to me?

[Something_Smart]

Titus, when was the last time you played with scum-Shiro? I know my wim varies significantly from scumgame to scumgame, why couldn't that be true of him?

[Something_Smart]

Was the mindmeld you townread STD for in the main thread or in your PT? If the former, can you link it?

[Something_Smart]

In Situation Room, his reads were on point and supported. He's fully capable of being a stronger player but he isn't.

But is that scummy? I recall his scumgame being pretty solid.

[Something_Smart]

Who's scumreading him here aside from me? That's a sign of a solid scumgame.

That's a good point, if completely ad-hoc. But my reasons for townreading him are that he doesn't really seem to have a solid game plan.

I haven't been great at reading him, so I'm open to other arguments, but I'm usually not enthused by meta from games I wasn't in.

[Something_Smart]

i haven't played with scum!him, but i've heard he's a Really Good scumplayer

He is, yes.

[Something_Smart]

Think this is +town for Titus if Alyssa is town. Not feeling out Alyssa/Titus s/s but it would take a lot to get there.

You mean, because you think Alyssa is probably right about Titus? Or what

[Something_Smart]

I’ve played enough games to know that this is the way scum treats a townie they feel threatened by.

I mean, not always. I definitely don't do that. Have you played with scum marci before?

[Something_Smart]

I still want SS and RH9 to be voting and not sidelining here.

I don't especially want the day to end before I have a chance to do reading tomorrow.

[Something_Smart]

Did someone say they needed someone to be nice to Taly

I'm on mobile and can only give the game half attention till tomorrow, but if there's anything you want to chat about I'm down.

[Something_Smart]

S_S what are your reads again

Pretty much the same as the last time you asked. (Harley should be in that list as well, I forgot to write her.)

[Something_Smart]

U can be nice to taly by putting ur GOD DAMN VOTE SOMEWHERE

I will if he asks me to. All else being equal, I wanted the day to last till tomorrow so I can do some reading.

[Something_Smart]

but I still believe that the gamestate is in a really shitty spot and that 90+% of the cause is that there are way too many players in this game that both believe they are in a TvT pair and that they should endgame

This is basically what I was getting at with "every scum has pocketed their dance partner", yeah.

[Something_Smart]

Well, my pet theory is that the IC almost always dies if they're partnered with town.

Taly should give his thoughts on Ydrasse, of course, but I don't feel like that pair should be endgaming.

[Something_Smart]

The question is if Taly should leave earlier so we can get the info from a Ydra flip, or later in the offchance this is all WIFOM and Ydra is town and we might hit scum elsewhere first

I think later because then we also get the benefit of an alive toucan.

[Something_Smart]

I do not think that having voted Andante makes anyone town when it was known that FB was going to leave.

[Something_Smart]

It makes Shiro look better, for sure. But not "damned obvious".

[Something_Smart]

I think the endgame with both our pairings gone is very sketchy in general

Seems to me that this mostly comes down to whether Shiro is scum. If he is then we're going to have a real hard time killing him if you and Taly are both gone.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah.

How are you feeling about Shiro at the moment?

[Something_Smart]

Shiro is lock town

Because of his recent posts, or were you waiting for something before saying this?

[Something_Smart]

when I pointed out that I had never in my entire history of playing mafia, ever heard scum talk to a buddy the way Marci talked about cb, he called that “circular reasoning”.

For what it's worth, this didn't happen. The part that was circular was when you said "marci was scared of catboi therefore he's town." The argument that the way marci treated catboi is rarely S/S is valid, and I wanted to go look for a counterexample but I figured it wouldn't change anything. I'm sure I've seen it, but you're right that it's not very common.

[Something_Smart]

Scum-Nancy is capable of some pretty epic AtE.

I townread her for other reasons, but it's worth throwing that out there.

[Something_Smart]

Why would Titus dying implicate the people pushing her? I would expect that scum wouldn't kill someone they think they can mis-exe.

[Something_Smart]

That makes two of us.

[Something_Smart]

(@ GL)

[Something_Smart]

After Shiro/HQ my tentative flip order would be Taly/Ydrasse -> GL/Dats -> RH9/Alyssa, I guess.

But I'm definitely willing to listen to Taly and Alyssa, my reads this game have not been super strong or super good.

[Something_Smart]

Azelf used minimize and the attack missed.

I'm sorry. You said you didn't want to leave first or second?

[Something_Smart]

I'm not opposed to switching around the first two. I still feel like my pair is the best chance to endgame but if not then it would probably be RH9/Alyssa.

[Something_Smart]

If you want us to lose. GL tmi’d Dats/Ydra as town right after I said I wanted Altssa/RH9 to leave last. GL knows that both Andante/Tirus flips spew me/Shiro town and thinks RH9 has a much better chance wuth you/Galron in endgame.

It’s not rocket science.

I'm pretty sure that team would still lose in F4. But like I said I'm not opposed to doing GL/Dats first, I just don't feel comfortable letting Ydrasse near endgame.

[Something_Smart]

as soon as me/Shiro flip T-T, everyone is going to ignore this and hand gl/RH9 the victory.

I don't plan to do this if that happens, for the record. And I don't think Alyssa does either.

[Something_Smart]

I am planning to leave anyway Harley. There is no point, the paranoia we are creating is doing more harm than good.

When? I was planning to hammer before I went to bed but I can hold off for a bit, I just don't want this to drag on too much.

[Something_Smart]

Shiro/GL/Aly/Taly

leave in this order?

If we're fixing me/Galron as the endgame pair then yeah, it makes sense for you to leave last to avoid any S/S edge case bullshit.

[Something_Smart]

you lost your faith in players for agreeing to a leave order that ensures town wins by your measure

O K A Y

There's a reason I didn't want this to go on too long

[Something_Smart]

Timeshit is an accurate description of town that game.

[Something_Smart]

I barely remember the timshit game tbh how old is that?

A couple years ago. I don't think you were in it, either?

[Something_Smart]

I think if it is GL/RH9 he kinda has to go for the mindgame and hope.

Pedit: yeah that

[Something_Smart]

S_S

, you aren't deepwolfing with

Aly

are you?

I would be shitting numerous bricks.

[Something_Smart]

It means my scumgame always crashes and burns at a certain point.

[Something_Smart]

I can link my best scumgame for you if you want. But even then I wasn't able to keep it up the whole game.

[Something_Smart]

weren't we scumpartners in timeshift?

Yeah but you replaced out fairly early didn't you?

[Something_Smart]

The entire scumteam did nothing that game and just watched town go down in flames.

[Something_Smart]

I wanted to at least make sure they both had a chance to post.

[Something_Smart]

I think probably Galron is scum, Galron and RH9 maybe if both Ydra and Dats are town.

Remind me why you townread Ydrasse again?

I'm really skeptical that scum were confident enough in Taly doubting her to stake the game on it.

[Something_Smart]

That's E-2 I think

[Something_Smart]

SS, reads?

My individual reads look something like Alyssa > Galron > ??? > Ydrasse.

I can do an ISO dive of GL/Datisi, but I really don't feel like it would help... I have a pretty bad track record of reading both of them. There's a reason I was counting on you and Alyssa to lead here, and it's not (just) because I'm lazy.

[Something_Smart]

I officially hate being town in large themes.

This setup is especially brutal. I'm sorry if the way I'm playing is increasing the pressure on you.

[Something_Smart]

she entered saying how shiro is locktown, then strated talking how it's either his pair flips first or last, and then she started talking about a shiro/galron possible team and how she's scared that's it and that's why she's willing to yeet shiro/harley

Why does she do the Shiro locktown bit at all as scum? That's a losecon if people start following her, and if nothing else it's something for Harley to jump on ("you said Shiro was locktown and now you're pushing him???").

[Something_Smart]

I think you're awesome and will still think that even if we lose.

What makes you feel something's wrong?

[Something_Smart]

That's true.

Was she really calling Galron scum? I don't remember that.

[Something_Smart]

btw, that is why my reaction to seeing taly was the ic was "thank the fucking rngesus it's not me"

This is why you rep in so you can be sure you aren't repping into an IC slot

[Something_Smart]

Right, it was all conditional on Shiro flipping scum. I guess I filtered that stuff out because it wasn't relevant before the flip.

I guess I should probably do a review of why I townread Alyssa at some point. Damn her ISO is long though

[Something_Smart]

I don't think her stance on that pair is implausible coming from town, though. Like she was kinda right that it would have been way harder to vote them out later on.

[Something_Smart]

Well obviously she changed her mind.

I guess she can come in and talk about her thought process there more, that wouldn't hurt.

[Something_Smart]

Taly, I can't speak to anything that happened in the PT, but I still feel like it's pretty unlikely that the scumteam would leave your pair alive if it's T/T. That would risk you coming out with a townread on Ydrasse, which would pretty much singlehandedly lose scum the game if they didn't have a S/S pairing.

Especially since the pair that died was STD/Titus, not a universally townread pair, or even the most townread pair overall. It may be that scum really wanted Titus dead... but Titus scumread Ydrasse, so that points back to her anyway.

[Something_Smart]

and similarly with the taly's proposal of him/ydra endgaming, here's there to talk about how scum never leaves the t/t ic pair alive etc etc.

I have been arguing this since the beginning of second dance...

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand any of that post honestly. I haven't tried to shut down many things other than this, and I've been pretty insistent that Ydrasse shouldn't endgame, it's not a reactive thing. I have presented my own reads, and preferred leave order, and I've said that I will defer to what Taly wants.

I am in a good position gamestate-wise, at least I hope so, so why wouldn't I want to keep it that way, regardless of my alignment?

[Something_Smart]

Well yes and that's true if I'm town and you're scum too.

[Something_Smart]

What would you expect me to be doing as town though? I can't read you or GL for shit, I don't think I could ever become confident on RH9 one way or the other, and I have been trying to work with Taly and Alyssa mostly to try and all get on the same page which seems pretty valuable.

[Something_Smart]

I am. I guess I could ISO dive him; I fully intended to at some point if the game didn't end first, but once some more flips happened so I'd have as much context for it as possible. I'm partially sheeping Alyssa (which is the case with pretty much all my reads, honestly).

[Something_Smart]

Would it be valuable if my and Taly's PTs were paraphrased in here

Probably not to me. I haven't found that PT paraphrasing gives much, you lose a lot in translation and you lose the timing which is pretty important. I guess if there are particularly important sections you want to share.

[Something_Smart]

I didn't see that coming. I'm going to fight marci for this. And I want LLD to endgame.

Wanna hit the dance floor LLD?

Take your time.

I didn't see that coming. I'm going to fight marci for this. And I want LLD to endgame.

Wanna hit the dance floor LLD?

Take your time.

IT"S ON

Is this S/S?

I guess it's plausible.

[Something_Smart]

Already at this point in Galron's ISO I've seen a lot of early game posts that feel pretty genuine, though. 375, 514, 651, 666.

[Something_Smart]

Feels like the kind of thing I'd be tempted to qualify or weaken as scum. Not a super strong feeling but I liked it when I read through it.

[Something_Smart]

Galron proposed to quite a lot of people... I think over half the ladies in total, though not concurrently.

If he is scum, this means that he didn't really have a plan. He showed an interest in endgaming when proposing to LLD, but he wasn't even particularly townread at that point. When he proposes to Harley though it's in order to solve her; this seems backwards to me (propose to someone THEN solve them) but I've never been a huge believer in sorting in hoods.

I guess if he's scum his plan was probably just "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks", try to get any pairing available and mix things up to distract from his partners, but that doesn't really track with how he played after the dance started.

[Something_Smart]

He did a pretty similar thing, though it was more of a last-minute thing, and he explicitly attributed it to panic/fear of being left with a bad partner.

Between the two approaches, both are +town I think, but RH9's moreso.

[Something_Smart]

why aren’t you voting gl/dats then : ?

because there doesn't seem to be a reason to rush through this?

If Taly asks me to vote I will vote.

[Something_Smart]

i dont have the spoons to have this conversation right now but you are being unpleasant to interact with to some degree by insulting people's abilities (not paragon worthy, is anyone paying attention) etc, would suggest being a bit nicer about it

peace

I thought this was the site meta actually.

lmao

[Something_Smart]

I was impatient and wanted to move on. Besides, I figured the three of us were likely town so it didn't really matter. I probably should have given mala a chance to talk, but I didn't see how waiting any longer would change anything.

This feels important.

The mindset pissed me off then, and it pisses me off now, but it seems like he's not thinking about the wider game at all. In a vacuum this would be +town, but given that we already knew his game was bigger-picture focused it seems awfully blunt.

[Something_Smart]

I guess not, but this is a pretty critical point in the game, so I don't think it hurts to make sure there's some coordination.

Just a philosophy difference, I guess. Surely this is not the first time you've seen me do this.

[Something_Smart]

Ydrasse, how do you feel about the GL/Dats wagon?

[Something_Smart]

Another vote on GL/Dats is one away from death

That too, although I'm not sure quickhammering would be a smart play for scum even if GL/Dats are T/T.

[Something_Smart]

Good timing.

[Something_Smart]

I'm kinda surprised you of all people think any of these posts are worthy of a townread? Like aren't you the guy who is usually sees nearly everything as NAI

I look for different things than most people. Those are posts that don't really look like people would townread them, but they serve important purposes in his hunting, which is why I felt that way. Each one is a relatively minor read, I only mentioned them because I saw several in a short time.

[Something_Smart]

also, has she not made this clear already?

She hasn't said much about it since the Shiro/HQ flip. Only 6618, but that's not conclusive.

[Something_Smart]

And she seems to be encouraging me to join the wagon without really expressing an opinion on it which I felt was odd given she doesn't seem to support it.

[Something_Smart]

Actually, that's a good point about 514. I didn't realize that it was to marci, so scratch that one.

[Something_Smart]

Hi Taly

Do you still think GL/Dats should go first?

[Something_Smart]

@Smart what do you make of this

Looks like nothing to me-- it doesn't seem different from saying "X scumreads Y", obviously if they are scum it's not a true scumread and they're only acting that way. I interpreted Galron's post the same way (he thought you were acting paranoid).

[Something_Smart]

No?

[Something_Smart]

Why does someone say their scumread is being paranoid. It's only authentic paranoia if I'm town and don't know his alignment. If he thought I was scum he wouldn't think I am being "paranoid" because he think I'm faking reasons to suspect/vote him

I'm not going to put words in his mouth, but I can see town doing this.

[Something_Smart]

I'm having a reaaalllll hard time believing that you don't see any issue with this whatsoever

My rule of thumb for scumslips is that if you think something is a scumslip, it isn't.

It's a bit of a weird reaction to your scumread scumreading you back, but it seems like maybe he doesn't scumread you as much as you thought, and I also don't see why he would be comparatively more motivated to say something like that as scum unless his scumplay is so basic that he goes "someone suspecting me, better discredit them" without even thinking about it. (I can clarify this bit if necessary, it refers to a concept that I use frequently but that doesn't really have a good name.)

[Something_Smart]

sorry but this is probably one of those things we axiomatically clash over

I have caught plenty of scum off of perspective slips before. oftentimes I doubt myself and don't regard it as a surefire thing but to suggest that scum don't slip ever seems absurd to me

Differing experiences, I guess? I don't feel like I see this often.

Regardless, can you at least understand where I'm coming from? I see people say this kind of thing sometimes with regards to a read without explicitly bringing up that they believe the read might not be genuine.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: SS/Galron
I can hear the screams from the dead thread

Why are you doing it then...?

Iirc Titus and Nancy were both pretty convinced that we were T/T. What makes you think that was wrong?

[Something_Smart]

Galron said he was going to leave before Taly voted us. I don't know why he didn't just say it here.

[Something_Smart]

One minute before you voted, Galron said in the PT that he was going to announce here that he planned to leave after 24 hours.

[Something_Smart]

Because I keep waffling on which pair is T/T and this is dragging a but much.

If multiple dead town, including one who was NK'd and very possibly for her reads, were confident in something like this, you should give them the benefit of the doubt at least for a little while. I swear I'm not just saying this because it benefits me, you know that I respect the reads of anyone who's been confirmed town pretty heavily.

I still feel our pair is the best shot to endgame, I recognize that you might feel differently and I'll leave if you really want me to, but killing us now seems like a lose condition.

[Something_Smart]

I hope you give me this same respect with regard to Galron if I'm flipped here

I will, yeah. How confident are you in the read?

[Something_Smart]

why are you ignoring the dead reads

[Something_Smart]

My worry is that if Galron and I flip first and flip T/T then it will be very hard to kill GL/Dats if there's scum in them.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: GL/Datisi

[Something_Smart]

If GL/Dats flip T/T and Ydrasse flips scum, I think I'd be willing to trust Alyssa and leave there.

[Something_Smart]

I already said I'll leave if Taly tells me to.

[Something_Smart]

referencing outdated reads and PoEs and trying to divert attention to them

Why is that bad?

[Something_Smart]

Titus and Harley were adamant that my pair was town. FB was not adamant about any read. It's not a cherry-pick.

[Something_Smart]

I didn't recall him being that confident, but looking back it looks like he was. Honestly my bad.

UNVOTE:

[Something_Smart]

Yes. I didn't remember that FB was as confident as he was on GL/Datisi town.

[Something_Smart]

s_s, what's your plan for now?

I still really want to see Ydrasse's flip, if I'm being honest :/

VOTE: Taly/Ydrasse

[Something_Smart]

I mean my arguments are more than that... it doesn't really have to do with how she's playing at all, actually.

[Something_Smart]

Hey that makes two of us

If you think it's Ydrasse/Galron why don't you flip Ydrasse first?

[Something_Smart]

I'm pretty sure at this point that Galron is not scum, by the way.

So like hey if you scumread me, there's only so much I can do, I think I've well exceeded the threshold for being readable this game. But if you scumread Galron, then try taking

my

opinion into account for once.

[Something_Smart]

I'm pretty conflicted about who I think should endgame, by the way. GL was meh in past days but has seemed pretty genuine today, RH9 I liked early but he dropped off.

I think I would go with RH9/Alyssa, trusting Alyssa that Ydrasse/RH9 is unlikely. If Ydrasse is town then I think we've already lost.

[Something_Smart]

That's pretty irrelevant at this stage

But I think I'm pretty unique in that my read is not for mystical PT reasons. It's literally based on stuff in the thread, he said he was gonna leave and has done nothing to back that up, if he's scum he threw away his only escape option.

[Something_Smart]

I'm curious why you think Titus/STD were killed

Why I do? Because they couldn't kill Taly and they thought Titus would be dangerous and/or hard to execute if left alive, presumably.

[Something_Smart]

And ydrasse flip doesn't say anything about anyone else's alignment

Didn't you say Ydrasse/RH9 aren't teamed?

[Something_Smart]

Threatening to leave is different from planning to leave.

[Something_Smart]

And ydrasse flip doesn't say anything about anyone else's alignment

Only thing it would do is make me insist my pairing is the last one standing if she's scum

Yes and if you're right that's game winning, so how is that not useful

[Something_Smart]

like what the fuck do you want me to do say sorry taly i don’t want to do this and peace out

I mean you shouldn't ever leave as the IC's partner, you should keep that decision up to them. So the threat was always going to be empty.

[Something_Smart]

This game took several years off my lifespan.

[Something_Smart]

S_S in particular I wanna give a shoutout on the scumteam, totally turned his slot around from a difficult spot to replace into, he totally snowed me and it's not the first time he's done that but maaaan I even had my guard up this time and he still did it, well played and gosh it must have been rough to go down like that at the final hour, I think if Datisi/I were limmed instead you very likely could have won

<3

I realized that I really don't like dance games during this game. I know they're a big cultural thing on the site, and they usually have fire playerlists (as this one did), but man, they do not match my strengths as a player at all. It hurt so much to see Norwee and Galron get suspected and there really wasn't much we could do about it. It was basically impossible for me to predict how people were going to act; as Pooky illustrated I thought we had no need to hammer you (and yes, Ydrasse was available to do so) and I failed to predict basically every read reversal and kept making plans that turned out awfully as a result. (Also, I always used to get annoyed when people impulsively left, only to realize this time how much more painful it is if nobody wants to leave.)

Despite that, I did have fun, though I was enormously stressed for a lot of it. Thanks for modding Pooky.

[Something_Smart]

If you kept up that same energy level u had pre intermission, u def would have carried to end but u totally lost all motivation it seemed like that is the biggest criticism.

It was a combination of unfortunate timing (New Year's weekend having been pretty busy for me) and having to tread very lightly around Nancy that kept me from doing this, I think. If I did a big wall and ended with "...and therefore Shiro has a greater than 1% chance of being scum", I'm not sure that would have worked in my favor.