Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams - Over

[dybeck]

Reading.

[dybeck]

*eyes reinvigorated discussion*
Reclines in favourite chair, hands behind head*
...And my work here is done.

No way.

You were lurking to this point. And now the spotlight has moved to Kinetic, you're lurking again, apart from a weak FoS. It smells like a precursor to a bus, but it could be a precursor to a nice easy lynch for you.

Either way, Cybele smells like scum to me.

vote: Cybele

[dybeck]

It goes without saying... but if we massclaim... scum will pick their favorite massclaim from those offered and use it for their own...

[dybeck]

I've heard enough to know where my vote should be.

unvote, vote: Natirasha

[dybeck]

I've heard enough to know where my vote should be.

unvote, vote: Natirasha

Actually, maybe not.

unvote, vote: Cybele

[dybeck]

Kinetic, a full and unfettered claim from you would help people decide whether they want to follow your plan.

I should tell you that, without it, there isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'm following your plan.

[dybeck]

Kinetic, a full and unfettered claim from you would help people decide whether they want to follow your plan.

I should tell you that, without it, there isn't a cat in hell's chance that I'm following your plan.

A full and unfettered claim with the possibility of this plan not being put into action is not acceptable. However, I am prepared to compromise. If this plan is accepted, and this is required from the majority of the other players, I will provide a full claim and not just a race claim.

Why would anyone provide you with info with no idea what side you're on?

In any mafia game??

[dybeck]

Anyone who wants to give away their info is free to do so. I'm not one of them.

So it's 'no thanks' from me.

Now you've splashed the complete list of alignments across the thread, no doubt scum will find something that they'd like to claim, so no doubt they'll join you in your plan.

[dybeck]

Anyone who wants to give away their info is free to do so. I'm not one of them.

So it's 'no thanks' from me.

Now you've splashed the complete list of alignments across the thread, no doubt scum will find something that they'd like to claim, so no doubt they'll join you in your plan.

The claim requires participation from everyone to work dybeck. If the majority of the town agrees to claim, will you claim?

I don't think it will work whether I claim or not. Scum will just fake claim now that we've made it so easy for them.

I don't see the point of the claim other than the fact that you think you've broken the game, despite the fact you know nothing of scum's abilities that could be aided by a mass claim and the fact that the mod is experienced and highly unlikely to have made it so easy.

And we have no way of knowing whether you're right or wrong, since you won't tell us the plan.

Furthermore, one of my win conditions is an anti-faction win condition, so declaring which one it is just makes me a target for nightkill. Which doesn't help me or my faction.

So no, overall, I'm not going to go along with your mysterious, inadequately-informed plan. On Day 1.

Does anyone have a reason to support the plan other than blind faith that Kinetic has actually broken the game?

[dybeck]

I just don't believe we have enough information to know that a massclaim will do us any good.

I don't believe you have this information either, although I confess you certainly do seem better informed than the rest of us. Whether you're informed by virtue of being scum, or by virtue of some power role, I don't know. Will you at least confess that scum could have some ability that you haven't anticipated?

Part of me thinks that if you were scum, you wouldn't be so vocal. However, your odd relationship with the suddenly-quiet Cybele from earlier in the game still gives me an inkling that you could be in the same informed minority, and that's another reason why I'm loath to lay all my cards on the table until we've explored some more traditional methods.

Also, I will categorically tell you that at least one of your race WCs is flat wrong.

Can I ask a question to the town?

Does anyone have any evidence that Shadows are not scum?

Does anyone have any evidence that Narn are scum?

[dybeck]

No, I don't think giving scum yet more info is necessary at this point.

I think I've made my point about how half-baked your plan is.

[dybeck]

Kinetic, your guesswork is putting the town at risk.

And I'm fairly certain you're not from my faction.

And there's every chance you're scum.

unvote, vote: Kinetic

[dybeck]

Kinetic, your guesswork is putting the town at risk.

And I'm fairly certain you're not from my faction.

And there's every chance you're scum.

unvote, vote: Kinetic

So you're admitting you're scum?

If this is a serious question, then you have alarmingly less knowledge about this game setup even than your posts so far have revealed.

[dybeck]

You vote me and attack me for revealing TOO much information, but you still want me to reveal MORE information and my refusal to you consider scummy. Contradiction much?

FOS:Dybeck

There's no contradiction here. I don't like a massclaim. I don't like your fishing.

I wouldn't mind hearing you claim. No dichotomy.

I'm most concerned that you're not actually in an informed minority, and that this whole argument is distracting from lynching them.

Would you at least accept that we should hear from some other people?

unvote

for now.

[dybeck]

We have 11 days to lynch a scum.

Perhaps now might be the time to start thinking about who it might be, particularly since the majority of those voting are against this ridiculous 'plan'.

Hint:

vote: Cybele

[dybeck]

Kinetic, can I just clarify the next steps of your plan?

1) We vote yay or nay on your plan.
2) If yay, we vote to decide who goes first.
3) That person claims, and they name the next person to claim.
4) Repeat step 3 21 times.
5) You reveal the secret element of your plan.

Have I got it straight in my mind?

[dybeck]

Kinetic, can I just clarify the next steps of your plan?

1) We vote yay or nay on your plan.
2) If yay, we vote to decide who goes first.
3) That person claims, and they name the next person to claim.
4) Repeat step 3 21 times.
5) You reveal the secret element of your plan.

Have I got it straight in my mind?

That's basically the deal.

And you definitely have some way of telling truth from lies? Because presumably everybody, scum or not, is just going to say 'Army of Light'?

[dybeck]

And also, the scum can have no problem right now; they can just post an "I agree, please personX claim first because blahblahblah", or whatever they want. And yeah, this is discussion, but I think that this kind of discussion is easy for scum, and we must not let the scum screw us.

And this. They're under no pressure whatsoever.

[dybeck]

And

mod, my vote should be on Cybele, not Kinetic.

[dybeck]

I'm really not attacking Kinetic. I can't get a feeling for any scenario where he's scum.

I'm just not big on his 'plan'.

[dybeck]

Kinetic, you're pushing the race claim way too much. Why do you want it so badly? I haven't you do a single thing to hunt scum. All you've done is comment amount events and defend your big 'plan'.

Unvote, Vote Kinetic

Guys, make sure you're voting Kinetic because you

actually

think he's scum. There's a world of difference between being Not Helpful and being scum. Don't lose sight of the object of the game.

[dybeck]

There's really nothing wrong with either claim, that I can see.

[dybeck]

When did we ever say 8 neutrals?

I'm certainly not "neutral", I just have a preference for one mafia

(You hear me, Vorlons?)

. hp is the opposite. I'm fairly sure there is at least one survivor(because there not being one makes us pretty much a strictly easier to win town. That's one(three if you count us, I guess).

Hasn't it been established for definite that there's a Shadow group? Or was that more misinformation?

[dybeck]

"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange this for me, Mr. Morden?"

Welcome to Babylon 5 Mafia: Severed Dreams,

RandomGem

. You are

Vir Cotto

. As an idealistic, if naive, Centauri, you've decided to help in the fight to save Babylon 5.

You are a

Army of Light/Centauri Member

. You have no special abilities.

You win if you fulfill any one (1) of the following win conditions:

Army of Light Win Condition: All Shadow Operatives and Vorlon Operatives must die.

Centauri Win Condition: All Narn and League of Unaligned Worlds players must die.

Please confirm via return PM.

The "All Shadow Operatives" part makes it pretty clear that there is a Shadow group of some kind.

This is my point. The sarcasm was lost in translation somewhat :/

[dybeck]

I largely don't care who claims first... I'd err towards KoC or Kinetic.

All... don't forget to vote also. Time is running out. This 'plan' doesn't give us a lynch, and there's no reason to no-lynch today just because we're claiming.

[dybeck]

Kinetic... you said this plan wouldn't work unless everyone took part.

With three days to go and significant characters V/LA, lurking or stalling, tell me that you've figured a way around this.

[dybeck]

For the record, I think this plan sucks.

But I suspect I'm going to wagoned to a claim anyway, so I may as well head it off now.

I'm a Narn. KoC needs to go next. He also needs to be heavily voted if he intends to lurk this one out.

I think it's better that we don't all claim at once. I'd rather see this plan go by the wayside than to let the informed minorities get to wait to claim.

[dybeck]

Please. Do. Not. Forget. To. Lynch.

[dybeck]

You say we need to lynch, but you don't tell us who.
scum.

Dybeck did the same thing.

I hardly think so. I've been for a Cybele/Knight of Cydonia lynch quite openly pretty much since I joined the game, (off and on).

[dybeck]

I'm intrigued that not only are there no Vorlons and Shandows, but no Centauri either.

Not sure what that means but it's interesting.

[dybeck]

I'm intrigued that not only are there no Vorlons and Shandows, but no Centauri either.

???

There's so many reasons the former should be obvious.

obv.

Centauri... there's one so far.

Oh yeah. Read back and I managed to miss two

[dybeck]

Ah... the pressure of a name... it's caught out scum so many times before and will do so many times in the future.

unvote, vote: Mana_Ku

[dybeck]

Mana_Ku.

Define 'cop' more precisely for us please.

You can detect Vorlons and/or Shadows?

[dybeck]

This is getting annoying from SSK and KoC. At this point I'm about to say the next that race claims gets a pass for today and we're lynching the other to figure out their race the hard way.

It was only a matter of time before Kinetic and I agreed on something!

[dybeck]

unvote, vote: Knight of Cydonia

[dybeck]

I have a question. Does anyone have Earthforce in their win-condition?

It smacks of a safeclaim to me.

[dybeck]

Yes, those are actually the old WCs which dybeck (Narn) told me I had wrong. I redid my math and realized he was right. The correct WCs are actually:

Minbari Narn Earthforce
Babylon 5 Minbari Earthforce
Centauri Unaligned Narn
Unaligned Centauri B5
Narn Minbari Unaligned
EF B5 Centauri

Your Narn win condition is wrong. Farside22 will tell you what it really is. Otherwise, I suspect he's lying about his raceclaim.

[dybeck]

Kinetic... do you want me to state the real Narn WC, or is it worth getting one of the other claimed Narns (populartajo?) to tell you what it is? Maybe we can catch one of them in a lie?

[dybeck]

Tomorrow, while we're lynching farside, we need to know why DGB is derailing this lynch by posting with no vote.

[dybeck]

Tomorrow, while we're lynching farside, we need to know why DGB is derailing this lynch by posting with no vote.

shes alredy voeting KoC

No she isn't. She's voting veerus.

[dybeck]

I'm an idiot

This isn't really relevant to the game, or even really my opinion, but I just thought I'd quote it for humour value.

I actually don't need to answer your question, Kinetic. Reading back, you've posted enough for me to be confident that you actually do now know the win condition.

[dybeck]

Tomorrow, while we're lynching farside, we need to know why DGB is derailing this lynch by posting with no vote.

shes alredy voeting KoC

No she isn't. She's voting veerus.

ur rite

And you're lying. I wonder why.

FOS: farside22, DGB, cr3t1n

[dybeck]

Since I'm Narn, and farside doesn't seem to be confirming, the real win condition for Narn is killing Centauri and LoUW.

This is true. Although I'd far rather have tested populartajo on it than malthusis.

[dybeck]

Ok, new information allows me to get a better picture on the game:

Narn, Minbari, and Centauri have 3 per race
B5, Unaligned, and EF have 4 per race

Sounds plausible, but how do you know this?

[dybeck]

Ok, new information allows me to get a better picture on the game:

Narn, Minbari, and Centauri have 3 per race
B5, Unaligned, and EF have 4 per race

Sounds plausible, but how do you know this?

With the correct Win Conditions I now can figure out distribution correctly based on what we know:

Minbari Narn Earthforce
Babylon 5 Minbari Earthforce
Centauri Unaligned Narn
Unaligned Centauri B5
Narn Unaligned Centauri
EF B5 Minbari

First, on the assumption that every race WC has to kill 7 people, thus they must attack someone with 4 and someone with three.

That puts the current WCs at

Minbari 6
B5 6
Centauri 6
Unaligned 8
Narn 6
EF 8

Assuming now that at least 4 of the B5 are not lying, that leaves us with one who is. Plus we have KoC who STILL hasn't claimed. So I needed to place two wild cards in so that all numbers equaled 7.

By adding one to EF I get:

Minbari 7
B5 7
Cenauri 6
Unaligned 8
Narn 6
EF 8

And by taking one from B5 and adding one to unaligned I get:

7 for all.

Thus if KoC is Unaligned or EF then the person hiding inside B5 is the other one.

<3 Kinetic

[dybeck]

There's been a lot of posting in the last little while.

Anyone reading through should note that if they fail to read it all, the bottom line is that we're lynching Knight of Cydonia.

[dybeck]

Pacman was on the KoC wagon while it was still a Cybele wagon.

[dybeck]

Also can someone who can be bothered please check that that is a lynch?

[dybeck]

Also, cr3t1n's been warned about his annoying posting.

It's been established that it's another scummer messing around. I think it's time for final warning/replacement/modkill.

[dybeck]

I believe it was Primate.

[dybeck]

Kinetic... maybe now's the time to put your plan to bed?

Especially since we have lynches for tomorrow?

[dybeck]

Bah. Go Narns

[dybeck]

Hey... guess who's back. Replacing farside.

For the sake of clarity... farside was a Centauri as per his second claim.

I'm slightly disappointed that you didn't lynch him. He lied, for god's sake. Have you guys played mafia before?

I'm interested to know why we're lynching a claimed cop with a plausible claim.

The psi-corps DOES seem plausible as cops. It doesn't seem plausible as Vorlon or Shadow operatives.

So I'm really not buying this whole wagon. One of malthusis and hpleaves is lying. And I don't think hpleaves is lying. Additionally, malthusis's fuzzy claim that he's 'dangerous' seems far too deniable tomorrow.

unvote, vote: malthusis

Malthusis: did your PM mention hp leaves by name?

[dybeck]

Actually on third thoughts... I don't like a lynch of either of them yet.

Malthusis: did your PM mention hp leaves by name?

unvote

[dybeck]

Were you told that 'hp leaves was scum' specifically? Or are you inferring this because he was your target and you got a guilty result?

[dybeck]

Oh screw it. I want to see what happens.

Claim: Scum.
Claim 2: You can't lynch me right now

.

The 1/1/1 theory may very well hold true. I see no evidence to the contrary. If you lynch me now, and you incorrectly choose which of pacman and DGB to lynch,

AoL cannot win.

Killing all scum would require you to genocide both Narn and EF, thus ending the game with a Minbari win. So, AoLers, do you want me to die yet?

Hee hee. I'm excited.

Oh dear. Miscalculation on youir part.

vote:MacavityLock

[dybeck]

Oh dear. Miscalculation on youir part.

Oh I didn't miscalculate at all.

Trust me. You did.

Unfortunately for you, you don't know what i know.