Situation Room [Game Over!]

[Dannflor]

he only way its beatable is if we collectively have a 100% reads rate and literally dont miss ever

you called?

[Dannflor]

Favorite People so Far:

OkaPoka, DrippingGoofball

VOTE: Qoobee

Can you explain why DGB is here and what elevates it above other players that have posted so far?

[Dannflor]

this seems like a lot of words to not play the game

[Dannflor]

Sorry, I'm being snippy and rude

I'm just a little annoyed by the amount of mech talk in the pre-game, and how that seems like it'll be continuing quite a bit into Day 1. I'd rather people play like it's a normal game for a while and then if we have to, do the mech talk after we actually have some content on the board. It's very frustrating to try to get anything AI out of empty questions like "do we wanna try a strategy to improve our odds or is there not a way to do so?"

Because like 1. No duh we want to improve our odds within reason, and whether or not there is a way to do so will become evident as more people check in and give their thoughts

2. it becomes a mask for giving actual content about the game, stalls out RVS, and gives the appearance of looking productive and town without actually having to risk anything

[Dannflor]

I'm doing both(I'm just not saying anything about it because they're vague initial impressions)

personally I would love to hear even your under-baked half-formed initial impressions if you are willing to share

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I'm not against breaking the setup or mech talk on principle

I'm against people trying to do that to substitute playing the game

[Dannflor]

Sure. Oka spam posts as either alignment, I'm not sure if he's town or not here, I think it was a nice touch if he's scum that he "tried" to control his posting and enthusiasm. Overall though I do think his start out of thinking "oh shit, I rolled town in a scum-sided set up, but I love this shit" is kind of coming off as genuine to me.

You I'm not sure if you're posturing/hewing too close to the town norm/purist version to be town, but I wouldn't really know. Your question to me is largely open ended and it depends on the player to respond well rather than definitively determine my own alignment. So thanks for the opportunity, but I don't feel much.

Oka: the point about him trying to reign himself in is good - he posts a lot of posts and says a lot of nice words so he's a very easy town read to throw out early and it's good you're aware of that

me: I'm a little unclear what you mean here. are you expecting me to try and definitively determine your alignment right now?

[Dannflor]

very strange hill for dann to stand on all thing considered

you've played with me before

[Dannflor]

Do u think either me or bell are going to not play the game and only mech talk? Cmon now

points to last 3 pages

[Dannflor]

vote me oka poka

[Dannflor]

Bell only started posting content because I started being rude

and you're like dancing around providing an actual opinion on me

[Dannflor]

president dann rolled scum oh no!

vote me

[Dannflor]

its against my morals to vote you as i believe we must leash every single vote this game

I can't actually tell are you serious

[Dannflor]

@Pedit: Not really, I was already playing the game, you just didn't have an internal view until you asked for one.

I know I'm aggressively oversimplifying

but I think you're town now so that's nice

[Dannflor]

well as mechanical talk has so evidently pointed out this setup is very very hard to win for town without proper leashing, we still need good reads to win, but good reads are not enough. we need good leashes as well as otherwise there is simply too much room for scum to force a win.

do you think it's possible to efficiently get good reads in a game where we aren't allowed to vote?

I feel like you should know such a plan either scum sides the day play or is just doomed to fail

[Dannflor]

I don't like it Oka but I won't argue any more about it

[Dannflor]

Gamma, why focus on that slot now vs. a number of other potentially readable slots?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Hypothermia

[Dannflor]

Hit me with why.

I sorta think Gamma is maybe town and I think you're the worst vote on his wagon

[Dannflor]

Bell is scum.

[Dannflor]

dan fl oor

[Dannflor]

dann y r u so weird this game

I'm trying to be a little more aggressive/assertive than I usually am

[Dannflor]

Hit me with why.

I sorta think Gamma is maybe town and I think you're the worst vote on his wagon

Where do you think he was towny?

he's not particularly trying to be towny

and playing the game pretty coolly despite being under a little bit of pressure from a couple sources

[Dannflor]

dann y r u so weird this game

I'm trying to be a little more aggressive/assertive than I usually am

Why??

Because my usual more passive play style doesn’t give the results I want

[Dannflor]

Dusa, a lot of the posts you are liking are… designed to be likable

[Dannflor]

VOTE: solo

I can give a more thorough answer when I get home from work GuiltyLion, but I do see the case for Bell being a bit LAMIST, in fact that’s why I was pushing him for content early on. Once he moved away from mech talk I got less of those vibes and I thought his initial impressions were fairly nuanced + his frequent posting has seemed pretty natural compared to where I sometimes felt he was forcing himself to post in a stilted manner when he was scum

[Dannflor]

VOTE: solo

I can give a more thorough answer when I get home from work GuiltyLion, but I do see the case for Bell being a bit LAMIST, in fact that’s why I was pushing him for content early on. Once he moved away from mech talk I got less of those vibes and I thought his initial impressions were fairly nuanced + his frequent posting has seemed pretty natural compared to where I sometimes felt he was forcing himself to post in a stilted manner when he was scum

I don't see any reasoning for the vote here?
also

@MOD you miscounted Bell's vote

fixed, thanks.
-nsg

u have to read between the lines

[Dannflor]

anyway

VOTE: save the dragons

[Dannflor]

at least one person voting gamma is dirty

[Dannflor]

UNOwen TOWN

[Dannflor]

I need to play Hades

[Dannflor]

performative

hmm

[Dannflor]

Strong tr on Dan floor based mostly on an assumption that may not be true, btw.

when do I get to know this secret secret btw

[Dannflor]

Bell feels distinctly different from his scum game. I wouldn't like bet my life's savings on it yet but I might bet the contents of the jar of rainy day cash savings that sits on my desk. The sort of LAMIST vibes people were picking up from him are... I think... emblematic of his town play. Bell is a little more uhhh self conscious as scum. I'm still watching him closely. Yes, you Bell. I'm watching you. Keep this posting up. Don't start going scummy

Gamma Emerald reminds me of that one game where I was scum and died immediately because Flavor Leaf is good at this game. GE isn't low hanging fruit per se, but his entrances often leave a lot of room for scum to jump on him. He tends to poke at the outrageous, and thence becomes outrageous himself, which is a literal beacon for scum to jump on. thusly, I am incredibly incredulous at the hypothesis that his wagon is/was all town. I mean, regardless of his alignment I am incredulous, but especially if he is town, which I do believe to be the case.

I sorta already touched on this I think but with the amount of pressure GE was under, I think scum!him maybe tries to develop a more nuanced reasoning for his push on Dusa. At worse, his frustration with Dusa is NAI. The fact that he's rather unworried about his wagon is also +town. I mean Gamma is experienced, he won't freak out, but he didn't lurk out and instead has remained quite active + playing the game and that's ususally a harder response for scum to pull off in response to a wagon wagon

FakeGod might be town just for not caring much where his vote is right now? Idk. I see the performative argument too. He's in the OkaPoka boat of "I want them to be town but they're sorta dancing around playing the game / saying what's on their mind." no I will not take that back

bingle bingle bingle. all I remember from you is that town reading Oka is undeserved.

DGB is like town. I will not be reevaluating at this time.

I was half-kidding with UNOwen town but reading back I actually really like that read. I will not be taking questions at this time.

Hypothermia ehhhhh. The trouble with all these secret alts is figuring out if they're mafia or players with slightly more out there logic than normal. Also, I keep mixing up Hypthermia with Cupcake in my head. They're both just occupying a spot in my brain of GET YOUR LUKE WARM MAFIA TAKES HERE. LUKE WARM TAKES. LOOKS AS VANILLA AS CAN BE. might be mafia trying to not make waves. might be townies who I haven't got a bead on yet or haven't got a bead on the game yet, who knows.

Solo performative

I voted Savethedragons because Bell was voting there. I'm continuing to vote Savethedragons because they haven't moved passed their Gamma vote 10 pages ago and seemingly can't move on to any new horizons despite the endless possibilities this particular rousing game of mafia has offered us all.

the dragons will not be saved this game

[Dannflor]

oh I forgot Dusa

I'm not reading Dusa's post so I don't get spoilers for Hades true story

[Dannflor]

did not expect a town pool of DGB, UNOwen, Gamma Emerald, Bell I'm gonna be honest

[Dannflor]

qoobee is nice but probably mafia

Yuri? Never heard of him

northsidegal - how do I get a neighborhood with her?

this concludes the reads list I never meant to make

[Dannflor]

I’m not half as good at scum half as well as I should like, and I’m charming less than half of you half as well as you deserve

[Dannflor]

Oh I’m slow

[Dannflor]

*twirls away*

[Dannflor]

I don't get all these UNOWEN townreads. OWEN ISO looks like not much of nothing much.

Lavar looks even more nonexistent.

VOTE: LavarManos

I'm kinda disappointed by the vote on someone who isn't here versus any number of slots you could pressure instead

[Dannflor]

VOTE: qoobee

Why?

[Dannflor]

call out their NAMES fakegod

[Dannflor]

I don’t have the sinking sickly feeling that Hypothermia is scum like I did last time I played with her but I’m also not arrogant enough to claim that means I would definitely get that feeling again

[Dannflor]

call out their NAMES fakegod

why would I

I want the gossip

[Dannflor]

Okaypoka is not very performative this game

[Dannflor]

Probably by virtue of being one of our only players to “break” the setup, unless Bingle is town

[Dannflor]

Okay I know bingle doesn’t lie about mechanics as scum but he will twist the truth

[Dannflor]

Don’t ask what vibing means

[Dannflor]

I wanna be in every hood please that sounds fun

You can trust me

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Hypothermia

[Dannflor]

Oka?

[Dannflor]

eating a granola bar during my 15 minute work break

What are you doing

[Dannflor]

If you mean in the game I had enough time to read but I’m not replying to anything substantial for another few hours

Oh and I decided I think hypothermia is scum today

[Dannflor]

About to nap until you decided to say one thing and do another

What was this thing

[Dannflor]

Oh hypothermia I’m guessing

I changed my mind badaboom

[Dannflor]

You should nap and maybe when you wake up I can pull you out of despair

[Dannflor]

bingle is that solo read real?

[Dannflor]

I’m just surprised you would think his vote on me is weird

[Dannflor]

I like this post, feels more likely to be an indignant townie than manipulative scum

mmm why

[Dannflor]

and why are those the only two options

[Dannflor]

schrodinger's deepwolf

okay logging off until after I eat and can actually wrap my head around this game

[Dannflor]

I'm not feeling Savethedragons as scum so much anymore.

But also, am I crazy or did OkaPoka and Gamma Emerald both not just totally townspew all over the place? I will pre-face that I do think Gamma Emerald wears his emotions on his sleeve as both alignments, but in general as scum, the breadth and depth of your emotion is going to be a little stunted. That is, the internal thought processes of town are usually a lot more complex, and I feel like I'm seeing that re: Gamma's navigation of his fight with FakeGod. Specifically, #778 contains a sort of earnestness about the thought processes that lead to his emotional outbursts that feels genuine. It's a human moment with Oka that reveals his inner thought processes in a natural way instead of a scummy "here's what I'm thinking so I can manipulate you into thinking I'm town" way. That post in particular sticks out to me but I also already town read Gamma.

Now, I might be reading into OkaPoka's general good disposition and the fact that he is a good person and attributing that to towniness, but I don't think that's all there is to it. I also recognize that inserting oneself into a "town mediator" role is a great way to earn town cred, but I still think Oka jumping in when he did there is like, slight towny points? There's other reasons I'm starting to come around to Oka too. I like that he hasn't dropped the mechanics (or didn't for a while). I was against the talk at first because it makes a very easy environment for scum to come and say nice sounding stuff, but Oka's been consistently spouting his own views to go along with that so like... I'm not mad. I don't want to not have a strategy going into this setup. I find his continued suspicion not very weird because Oka usually doesn't town read me anyway. I guess I still don't have a strong town read here but I'm starting to understand his process this game better. I definitely don't think he's town because he's been "enthusiastic," if anything his despair is more towny than not.

Speaking of which, I had a moment earlier today where I was paranoiaing Bingle scum. I've talked myself out of it by now but I'm still kind of mystified by him this game. One thing that's kind of stood out to me is that he's doing a lot of "don't town read X," which is all well and good, but a lot of it seems kind of perfunctory. Like, duh people shouldn't town read Oka because he's enthusiastic, but is Oka even particularly enthusiastic this game? Honestly, he seems kind of subdued and I'm not the only one who has noticed that. Idk some of the things Bingle has been harping on just seem a little surface level. @Bingle maybe you can help me out here by talking a little bit more about any thoughts you do have on Oka? Or even me for that matter? I don't understand why you're trusting me as town for now or whatever

[Dannflor]

why? I don't think so myself

I retract the read, in trying to find the example for you I realized that I conflated two players as Guilty Lion, so of course the progression made no sense

I think this post is towny

Don't think DGB is the type of player to fake a post like this

[Dannflor]

I expect Oka still wants an explanation for my dramatic heel turn on Hypothermia. Basically, as this game was marinating in my head while I worked today I realized Hypothermia wouldn't give me the same feeling as scum she has in the past. In the past, I've associated her scum play with pockety charisma focused vibe play, hence the sickly sweet feeling. But THEN

I vibe less on alts and play more seriously.

which like fine, but I still don't really have a reason to town read her. I 1. didn't really like her unvote of Gamma in that she was just like "I'll revisit this" instead of like, trying to engage or sort Gamma any further. And now has sat on her vote for quite a while and since being outed has moved more towards vibing. I didn't like the fact that she didn't vote me either when Yuri asked her too despite her immediate previous interactions with him and the "carry me" comment. It reads like she's hesitant to put down a vote after I and a few others called out her vote on Gamma. That's maybe not scum indicative on its own but I don't particularly like the fact that she's null voting and then a presumed known player (that she thinks is good?) tells her to vote me and she slows down and asks why, despite Yuri already spending time talking about me. Idk I feel a lot of the time town just votes here even if they don't particularly scum read me, because hey wagon and Yuri is a commanding voice. It doesn't really fit the pure easy going picture of Hypothermia that I imagine but I don't actually know what that looks like completely and that could be obfuscated by her playing on an alt.

Basically @Hypothermia, I need to know where you're at post-Gamma, because it feels like you're not even sure yourself and I'm worried you're struggling for natural reads now.

[Dannflor]

@Yuri, can you explain what your deal is with Bingle now and why on earth you seemingly just dropped trying to engage with or pressure him? That feels like a thread that got cut off very abruptly.

[Dannflor]

for you, i find your entire approach to Dann here weird, and I’m not sure what to make of it. Dann isn’t someone I think of as having strong reads, certainly not the the extent that he should be left alone to work, and given your familiarity with him I also find it off that you’re not interested in pressing on any of the difference he’s showing here vs recent games

I also think he’s being inconsistent in a way that’s still bothering me in that it’s like he can’t pick a tonal approaxh and is flitting back and forth between his standard deepwolf charm approach and the more assertive harder look which I don’t think I’ve ever seen from him before

it's true my usual vector of getting playing town is ability to get town read, my reads are inconsistent at best

regarding the second point, what you're seeing as inconsistency is most likely my inability to hard commit to the more assertive style because uh, I've never done it before

What did you see from Hypo/Ydra that you town read?

[Dannflor]

I’m interested in what has changed wrt STD and what your take is on Solo. I’m also interested in seeing where your Hypo push leads, but am uninterested in joining you atm.

I'm not inspired by the STD wagon really

I don't hard town read him but there are other places I'd rather push.

Solo is in the same bucket as Hypothermia and maybe Qoobee where they're just kinda posting luke-warm takes and not really pushing anything like they mean it. I did like the small detail that they picked up on Oka's drop in activity, but that doesn't really mean anything on its own.

The timing of voting me when he did seems immediately towny? Scum are usually far more conscious of their own continuity regarding reads because it tends to be manufactured. The fact that Solo voted me while stating he had me as a town read multiple times isn't really scummy but more something I'd expect a townie to do in response to Yuri's prodding. It's the same reason I'm suspicious of Hypothermia's hesitancy to vote me. I do want some explanation from Solo on his reads list but not because I look at it and think its immediately bad. It feels like you're picking at inconsistencies that are surface level scummy but inconsistencies that the average scum would never willingly make because it obviously stands out.

[Dannflor]

UNOwen why do you trust Bingle?

[Dannflor]

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

I think it's sus especially given that half the player list is playing under (what I suppose are secret) alts

[Dannflor]

but also people in general seem to have bigger expectations than I think is realistic, regarding both my scum and town games so I don't actually know how my read strength is perceived by bingle

I don't think I'm gonna give particularly more useful or AI content if I'm "left alone" as town versus pushed though

and I don't handle pushes as scum super well historically sooooo

the meta read is off at best

[Dannflor]

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

I think it's sus especially given that half the player list is playing under (what I suppose are secret) alts

Do you have a different name in other cultures!?!?!

Beowulf?!?!?

I don't play on alts I carry my meta like the burden it is

[Dannflor]

I liked some of her posts when catching up (had to go back and check but I think it was like 315 and the couple after that that rung to me as a town way of thinking about what was happening) but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't largely her reaction to realising who I am where I think she would be uh

significantly less enthusiastic about realising that I'm in the game if she were scum and probably working me more than she actually is? like she was cheery about it but I don't feel like she's been playing around me at all and that reads as +town for her

This might be more convincing if I knew who you were. (I'm not asking you to out, just saying)

I do read scum!ydrasse as usually very pockety and she has not been thus far this game, so that part makes sense, and I suppose her not immediately following you onto me adds onto your point about not playing around you. But I also think she's self-aware enough to not go for the same vector of play every single game and the content she has posted has felt somewhere between stilted and forced

She's just passive this game, is the best way I can describe it

[Dannflor]

that's fine, I'd rather read you without knowing the baggage of whoever you are anyway

my thoughts on Bingle are still in limbo and I'm waiting to see where his push on Solo in particular goes

[Dannflor]

dann didnt you get a bunch of reads right after u died in the tm large normal r2?

ehhhh not really

I don't have access to the discord anymore but I remember changing my mind a lot. I think at varying points I had you / hopkirk / bell / luca as scum but I don't think ever at the same time. They were probably roughly as good as they were when I was alive, which is still a bit above average for me

I don't think highly of my read strength in general and that's an aspect of my play I'm actively trying to improve this game.

[Dannflor]

VOTE: guilty lion

[Dannflor]

okay I didn't mind Oka's vote but it feels like every single vote after that on Yuri has just been sheeping that reason which I don't really think is good enough

but that's probably because I'm also on the side of holy hell stop the mech talk for a bit

[Dannflor]

but in 5 additional votes on Yuri I haven't seen one new reason that I recall

[Dannflor]

Yuri did not "shut down," mech talk. He even engaged with it in Bingle. Yuri said that mech talk bores him and continued discussion of the same points ad nauseum would not be useful. These are all uncontroversial points I think. I don't think the contradiction is as clear as Oka makes it out to be and an uncomfortable amount of people have jumped on the Yuri wagon precisely for a reason that really should not have that many people sheeping it.

As far as GuiltyLion, none of his posts have really town pinged me yet but I especially dislike #773. Bingle as a top tier town read is ???. There's no explanation for the town read on me either despite there being multiple slots Oka/Yuri who scum read me. Why is Oka's Yuri vote spicy? Why is arguing with Bingle about mech talk strange from Yuri when Yuri specifically mentioned scum reading Bingle and also wanting to find someone mechanically minded to sheep? Yuri already expressed why he was voting me, what about that doesn't GL grok?

Like overall, it's a post that surface level looks good and towny but I find the reads list tiers pretty shallow and convenient and I don't really understand how he got to the Yuri vote either.

[Dannflor]

a lil suppressive to discussion imo

good! if you think 10 more pages of discussion with bingle is going to greatly increase our odds of winning the game then go for it, but imo let's decide who we're killing today and then decide who is gonna be on the wagon and what that might mean for future wagons

or in the mean time just talk about who you'd like to see in certain neighborhoods or whatever

but like, if the best strategy hasn't already been talked about I feel it's not going to be, and if someone has an idea I'm sure they'll out it

[Dannflor]

Like this is what I was trying to get at in pre-game. There is a point of diminishing returns with "discussion" about mech talk and I know you want to play the setup optimally, I do too, but I'm also trying to make sure Day 1 is as productive for reads as can be

@Titus VCA is gonna be a lil wonky regardless in this setup

Also this is the weirdest thing but I'm pretty sure I had a dream a couple nights ago that Titus replaced into this game and hated this setup because she couldn't do VCA

[Dannflor]

right

so yuri wanting to table the mech talk is bad because?

[Dannflor]

Spoiler: cw mechanics, dann clicky click here but nobody else need to click if u dont like

also just want to point one thing, slight thing with regards to mech dann

choosing to play d1 normally as possible is a mechanical decision because it will require correcting in the future, if you want to know why well you can read up. there is no world where we can escape mechanics. okay that's my spiel about mechanics. ive agreed with bingle at this point that we just play d1 normally and bother with other stuff later, probably d2-d3 to try and fix any glaring holes that might form. but we can ignore mech now but that's the benefit of having talked about mechanics is that we are on the same page.

Spoiler:

Yeah, I understand that now. My assumption coming into the game that D1 was likely going to be played as normally as possible because all systems tend towards entropy. That is, even if a few loud players do try to steer a particular direction, most players are still gonna shy away from that and treat it like a normal mafia game. My main intention with coming in and poo pooing mechanical discussion was that I 1. didn't want people to be stuck in analysis paralysis and 2. I didn't want an easy layer of discussion for scum to hide behind. I realize now that my approach to this game was essentially Bingle's and a mechanical choice in its own right but I didn't express that very well coming into things.

[Dannflor]

were you gonna ask me any of this stuff or were you just gonna vote me and wait until someone asked you why

I was gonna wait for you to elaborate and had more time because I assumed at least some of the stuff that was lacking in that post was due to lack of time

but yeah consider me asking now

[Dannflor]

also Dann, what is your read on Yuri yourself, I just re-skimmed your ISO and didn't see it. Are you townreading that slot or are you just pushing back on people voting it?

I'll respond in a little bit as I'm still kind of in the process of figuring out what I think about Yuri

mostly I just know I find the wagon that's built on them weird

[Dannflor]

Bingle is good.

Can you elaborate?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: butterfly

I like you Dusa

[Dannflor]

This game kinda stalled out but I don't really feel like pushing a lot of the active slots. I need to sit down and think through some of the questions that have been bugging me for like days

I need to figure out what my read is on Yuri

will I ever stop being paranoid of okapoka?

is my Dusa town read too easy?

will I ever discover the identity of Gentleman 3?

[Dannflor]

I only saw Bell!scum once as a replacement but he lacked both the activity and the motivation present here. When he did post solving / townie looking posts they were exceptionally shallow imo and were revealing of a lack of underlying thought processes. My town read of Bell might have come to early but it was directly in response to seeing some of those underlying thought processes that I thought were genuine as opposed to his scum play where they felt manufactured if they were even there.

[Dannflor]

Why Qoobee?

Also does anyone have a read on FakeGod in either direction

[Dannflor]

I've been paranoid of you since that one normal game we played with eddie cane

[Dannflor]

yes lol

no every game since then has been me trying to figure out how to read you because I've gotten it wrong a lot

I am trying to get better at that because I refuse to default to a scum read of someone I don't know how to read but I will admit I find reading you exceptionally tricky

[Dannflor]

. I think STD is probably town.

I also arrived here but I’m interested in what changed your mind

[Dannflor]

this is purely a reads list and not an evaluation of character

some things have changed since last time I expressed reads on certain people, so I'll type up a more thorough text to go with this later but for now, AMA

[Dannflor]

T3 seems townie

where exactly did you get that from his 4 posts

[Dannflor]

@CB, who is scum?

[Dannflor]

B tier is my null / mixed line btw

[Dannflor]

you should like yourself more

[Dannflor]

dann but i thought i townspewed D:

I wound up thinking you were slightly +town for that interaction, but the thing that sticks in mind is that you're just being so passive. Like the only thing you've really done this game that I remember is pushing Yuri, and it's a push I'm not the biggest fan of. I know you just said you're content to be passive because all outcomes are good for you, but that passivity is not something I super associate with town you. Even if you were content to watch where things go I'd kind of expect you to be... poking at something? meming? idk

Can I ask if you still scum read me and if so why?

[Dannflor]

Once CB flips scum I feel like Dusa should be flipped next

Gamma, this feels... overly confident

[Dannflor]

I also don't think it's logical that scum!Dusa voting you is a way to protect scum!CB, like your vote wasn't even particularly threatening, it was "I want to join CB's game so I will vote"

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

dont @ me

[Dannflor]

My scumread on CB has softened a bit.

The over-the-top role-playing combined with the lack of game content blew up my scumdar.

But now that I see CB is capable of intelligent discourse, I'd like to see more of it.

UNVOTE: for now, though I am still scumreading the slot. It may be because the player is cornered in a defensive position.

My read on CB hasn’t really changed

The game show thing is cute and fun but it seems personality indicative and not alignment indicative

[Dannflor]

I think it was overconfident in the way that scum try to emulate town being super confident in their reads. I don’t think his confidence says anything much about the alignments of CB or Dusa, like he was TMIing, but I think it veers to far into foolish overconfidence that it becomes a parody of itself, and I think as scum Gamma tends to over exaggerate his emotions in an attempt to match his town game.

There’s a little more nuance then that that I can try to reword later, but gotta get back to work

Oka i see you and I’ll answer you later

GL, you don’t need a unique reason and that wasn’t really the issue I had with your vote previously

[Dannflor]

I’m a lot less hot on UNOwen now

[Dannflor]

Also

@Dann

I asked a question about your reads which as of now has gone unanswered

Scum reads is pretty general question but yes I’ll elaborate when I get to a computer

[Dannflor]

I have a bit written about bell in my ISO

[Dannflor]

I am unlikely to join the fast-growing Gamma wagon. I don't see anything scummy in their posts and I dislike the speed in which it got from 0 to 5 votes

People are always saying this

Why is wagon speed an indicator of anything *especially* in a game where players are incentivized to join the largest wagon

[Dannflor]

I could go guiltylion too

[Dannflor]

Why is T3 towny

[Dannflor]

Its eddie cane!

don't think so :/

[Dannflor]

Did you think i was passive as scum in the other games?

mmmm no that's not quite it. It's less that I think you're scum for being passive, it's more that I feel you've only done a handful of alignment indicative things at all this game so it feels difficult to get a bead on you. I don't know if you're intentionally playing this way or if its an artifact of the setup or what. I don't think your level of engagement or activity by itself is strictly indicative for you, but I feel like the most I'm getting is a little nudge in either direction.

For instance, I liked your interaction with Gamma.

For another instance, I dislike this question:

dann what was with the sharp s tier to vote tier on gamma

Because... exactly what kind of answer are you hoping to get here?

What happened to the old vibing Okapoka

Most curious about the scumreads rn

Also

@Dann

I asked a question about your reads which as of now has gone unanswered

This is uh... very broad but I'll do my best. LavarManos' ISO is filled with largely empty questions. By empty questions I refer to big sweeping general questions like "What dynamic are you talking about," "How do people read X and Y," "What is townie about this thought?" At best, they seem to be clarifying questions, but they never coalesce into follow through. The other thoughts that appear in their posts at least express some critical thoughts about specific posts, but they're also fairly basic observations by which LavarManos has even admitted to just making a "random read." The reads they have given seem more designed to appear like he's having thoughts™ about the game™, rather than being natural reactions to the game contents. I think evidence of this read is that LavarManos has failed to push literally anywhere despite naming several slots as suspicious. There is no questioning of those slots and they have yet to even vote. Most of LavarManos' interactions are due to them answering someone else's direct question.

T3, I'm beginning to rethink now. Especially with the random town reads thrown his way when I feel he's done very little to deserve them. It feels potentially TMI-y especially from slots like LavarManos.

Fakegod has this weird fake confidence thing going on that isn't actually backed up by any action. Looking back over his ISO as I write this I sorta see a relaxed townie if I squint? And now I'm kinda doubting this one. But even still, there's not much directly to town read. The best I could say for Fakegod is that he's town because he seemingly doesn't really care how he's perceived too much?

CupcakeButterfly should not have needed a wagon to build on her for her to start posting content. In addition, her "content" is largely non game related gameshow nonsense. Very cute and fun nonsense, but nonsense nonetheless. It feels like she has to force herself to talk about the game and even the performative gameshow stuff shoves much of the work on other players. She's loosely made up a scum pool of half the players pushing her, but hasn't directly called out anyone. It's like she's avoiding confrontation completely and wants people to town read her based on her cute schtick. I don't think as town CB would be so avoidy of the confrontationy.

Titus is uh... too calm? I feel like she should be more freaked out by the possible flaws in applying VCA to this game. People mentioned VCA wouldn't work very well and she was just like... "oh no! anyway..." Perhaps because she's just gonna make it up?

UNOwen... I was liking his prods earlier in the game. They were regular and felt like they came at townie intervals and timings and supplied information that wasn't just directly questioned of him. But they've never really gone anywhere. He seems content to just be prodding and as Bingle pointed out, he doesn't seem to be getting a whole tone out of those prods. I haven't really seen UNOwen take a prod and make it into a full blown case, or the other way, where he took a prod and turned it into a strong town read. It's a pattern of play that feels very safe and I feel he'd have started doing something different by now as town with this pattern of play seemingly not resulting in a ton.

GuiltyLion is being kinda weird this game and I can't figure out how much of that is just lack of time / focus / activity. He feels oddly defensive but maybe he feels he has to be because he's been away so much? This read needs more development but it's difficult because I feel like prodding GL means all he'll do is defensively respond to that prod when he has time for the thread. As such, I haven't been able to see much/any townie self actualization in this game (what a BS term I just decided to use). I mean, his moments of agency where he's pushed something on his own or prodded or joined a wagon have seemed shallow, but again maybe that can be attributed to a lack of engagement? But I feel like GuiltyLion would *feel* different as town even if he wasn't as engaged. I dunno. Probably one of my weaker scum reads here, he has had towny moments I suppose but I forget about them easily.

Gamma I really thought you were town but I've really disliked your reactions recently and particularly your reaction to Dusa. Aside from CB and Dusa, who is scum? Why does it feel like you're not super bothered by the fact you might be eliminated soon here?

forget if I had any more questions to respond to

oh I'm actually pretty fine with the current wagon composition? I might just add bingle + bell Maybe swap ne of GL or T3 for A50 or Yuri? idk

[Dannflor]

I'm not townreading A50, and that's actually a pretty big thing. Definitely could be that he just hasn't had an opportunity to show me his town monkey intestines yet, but I don't want him on wagon without a read on him.

hmmm okay scratch the A50

[Dannflor]

my other issue is I'm Fully Bothered by CB and Lavar just not having voted at all today

yes this is A Problem

[Dannflor]

idk from Oka's position as either alignment I would feel pretty uncomfortable pushing Yuri given his current state

[Dannflor]

I just feel I don't have an answer to that that's not "I just changed my mind / wanted to see what would happen"

I don't feel that I'm good enough to not reconsider even my strongest reads when faced with good evidence to the contrary on D1, which I feel that I got

[Dannflor]

I'm glad you're doing okay Yuri

[Dannflor]

also I think the nature of my Gamma read was very gut / emotion based and that's something that can easily change for me based on more recent evidence

[Dannflor]

versus like I think Bell would have to start dancing with a red blinking neon sign above his head that said "playing for the red team" in order for me to start scum reading him, because my reasons for town!bell feel more grounded

[Dannflor]

sure but this exists and i mean this does not seem like a feeling you would just drop unless you lied to me about your feelings

those were the feelings I had at the time

I'm now having different feelings. idk how to explain it and I wish I wasn't so flimsy on this but this is where I am and how I am.

[Dannflor]

then ur tier list made no sense i mean something has to give here dann and you aren't the type of person with lolreads you aren't me dann, you are supposed to be the stable one in this dynamic!

you also had like 0 reaction to Dusa's push on Gamma and his subsequent reaction to that so I feel like the difference in how we read that situation might be the giving factor here

[Dannflor]

you are supposed to be the stable one in this dynamic!

I'm also not as self-confident a player as I sometimes project and that was something I was supposed to be fixing this game by being more aggressive but alas I have fallen back on old habits

[Dannflor]

possibly true that i just dont care about gamma's rxn when i maybe should

I also think Dusa's utter enthusiasm has had some element in swaying me

[Dannflor]

have u figured out dusa's main

I have a pretty decent guess

[Dannflor]

sure if you go for that sort of thing

[Dannflor]

What I wanna know is with this self-awareness why was I in your S tier? Read strength should be balanced with the certainty of the read

that's true

I think believing in my strong feeling so strongly was a mistake

[Dannflor]

sorry Cupcake, thanks Dusa

[Dannflor]

@Dannflor - what's your read on Yuri?

honestly no idea

[Dannflor]

But OkaPoka is a god with a strange nature! He doesn't make sense! I don't know how to explain this...

oh you explained it just perfectly

[Dannflor]

it is known

[Dannflor]

I don't find her particularly hard to read because despite the roleplay she has consistently given opinions on slots and especially recently hard pushed those opinions. What about her gimmick makes her hard to read?

[Dannflor]

This pings me too, I liked Dusa pushing Gamma but the shift between which wagon is most prominent is too swift for me to trust it.

Whyyyyy? What about the swiftness makes the wagon not trustworthy? Also, it switched from you, who from your perspective should be assumed town, so it's not like the speed of the shift is a response to a wagon on scum. Do you think Gamma is simply an easier elimination than yourself?

[Dannflor]

Dann, why do my posts come from the perspective of someone filling space and not a method to engage?

Well, you just said this:

Feels like people are putting me on the backburner in favor of a more probable lim rather than sorting me, since most of the responses to my game were some variation of "I don't care." Nothing in good faith for me to grab a hold onto here. :/ It's feeding my disinterest with hard-solving.

Judging by the gameshow, you obviously have the initiative to be able to start hard-solving on your own engagement. But instead it feels like you're using the fact that players are focusing on slots that are producing content over you to excuse the fact that you aren't putting out much content. There's a wealth of good-faith content in the present game even if it's not directed specifically towards you, and it only feels like its within these last few posts that you've made an earnest attempt to engage with the game at large, which feels convenient, but also I know how difficult it can be to get into a game at a later stage like this sometimes. I also feel you didn't really form any conclusions off the response to your gameshow, at least any conclusions that didn't just lead to the above quote and your apparent disinterest.

[Dannflor]

Because the votes went from 0 to almost-limmed in less than 24 hours, and in a game where scum is benefited by joining a wagon to become part of a hood, that gives me pause.

And why does me being town prevent me from reviewing an alternative wagon critically?

1. Town is also incentivized to join a wagon to become part of a hood.

2. That's not what I said. I am trying to understand what reasons you have for being critical of it, because I don't see wagon speed on its own as particular cause for worry.

[Dannflor]

I work best when I'm in a back and forth and working alongside other players because I don't have the time to sit through and read every page to come up with an assessment with no solid information in this game thus far, and the game was to help work in spite of that. I guess I've tackled the game at an unhelpful angle for myself to read, since people nor myself are getting much out of my posts.

That's fair. I personally found the gameshow a little too forced for me to get genuine engagement out of it, which was why I didn't really engage with it. Too much structure kind of defeats the purpose for me, I much prefer this kind of back and forth for interaction. I understand jumping into something like this can be difficult when you're consensus null-scum and haven't been able to bite into anything yet this game, though.

[Dannflor]

Dusa are you being tricksy

[Dannflor]

[Dannflor]

i just made this to demonstrate that as long as bingle is alive I will be reading A50 through him

[Dannflor]

an all town sounding neighborhood is unlikely to be all town

just town sounding

[Dannflor]

Why would town ever say they'd give up at all?

I can think of a good few reasons

[Dannflor]

thanks for modding!

dusa should have died over me

[Dannflor]

yeah I kinda just completely forgot I had been scum reading the Titus slot early game

[Dannflor]

Cupcake! Northsidegal tasked 13 of us the chore of damaging mafia! She gave 4 of us the task of damaging town! Gamma Emerald is very clearly mafia! That makes most of 13 people want to hurt him and all of four people not want to hurt him!

I hope that helps you understand why so many people are voting him!

It's less clear what you are!

this one post sent me on a spiral of paranoia

[Dannflor]

I thought you knew some tricks

[Dannflor]

Isnt being scumread as town the best compliment one can give

I do think we should be promoting less polarized play in general

although sometimes I feel like I'm playing trash as town and deserve the scum reads

[Dannflor]

you were pretty obv town! I think you were good

[Dannflor]

I think the numbers assume a lobby of non-polarized players

[Dannflor]

how to solve immensely polarized lobbies

encourage people to improve, provide more resources for people to improve, don't praise polarized play

[Dannflor]

idk it might need an md topic