Dogs Vs. Cats Mafia | Endgame

[Kazyan]

Here come dat boi

VOTE: Kazyan

O shit waddup

[Kazyan]

I wondering if Nero seriously wants us to cut the chitchat, or if that's just doing more chit-chat in an in-character way.

[Kazyan]

VOTE: xofelf for breaking RVS with defensiveness instead, idk, more animalposting.

Toadette is a townread for me, and SirCakez leans town (but is also saying a lot of things that I like from a meta-perspective, so I might be biased in saying "yup that's town"). The rest of you guys honestly blend together due to the ten pages of hyperposting overnight, except for Lion I guess.

[Kazyan]

i also thought unwnd's quick defense was kind of weird but the background behind it wasn't bad, not so much as "i also think Ivy is towny from that" but "this feels like a normal opinion", also so far this game no one but Fire has captured my heart (read: felt like their game is going a place)

Everyone's just joshing around at the moment, so there is no one to capture anyone's hearts. I'll probably review the unwnd/Fark thing later, but for today, this game has an incredibly low content-to-pages ratio and it's not actually worth the effort to try to distill anything out of it.

[Kazyan]

trying to get workable content out of the fluff is the quickest way to get out of that phase of the game, though.

True; I'm just not looking forward to reviewing 20 pages of dogposting and multiple layers of irony.

Sort of

Something doesn't seem right about Fark, the votes on xof aren't terrible but it's a early D1 wagon that doesn't need my added vote.

Is this a gut read, or do you have a specific thing that isn't right?

[Kazyan]

Knowing that several people have expressed being overwhelmed by the amount of posting, do we think that it would be in scum's best interest to continue adding fluff, or would they prefer to stay on the sidelines? They'd probably be of split opinion on that, come to think of it, so we could expect some scum to be quiet and some to be very fluffy.

P-edit: Flow Trap, do you have a reason behind the naked vote?

[Kazyan]

Town

lol I mean, I could've told you, if we're serious for 1 minute. Anya is most likely town, what scum would come in here trying to be the opposition... I've had her in my town pool for a while lol

This post strikes me as a town mindset.

[Kazyan]

I think at least 1 scum is in the "I hate all this content" cause scum has to follow along with it, town can skim, say they won't back read, so what, ask someone for a TLDR later, like, yeah

Many ISOs to review to figure out who said they hate this content then. Here gooooes

Pro-posting:
- Andante
- Nero
- Flow Trap
- unwnd
- Chara

Anti-posting:
- SirCakez
- Beeboy?
- Kazyan

More later.

Anyone on the Toadette wagon wanna talk about it?

No

Refusing to give a motivation for a vote. Yikes. VOTE: flow trap

[Kazyan]

not really sure of the point of 526, is the idea that there's one scum in the antiposting camp worth making a list to sort out all the players? and more than that is Andante's idea one that holds water?

pedit: please do, i don't do well under the pressure of having to do it myself. :>

I mean, yeah? It's a piece of information I can put together, even if it's not going to slam-dunk solve the game.

[Kazyan]

I understand the anti-Beeboy sentimnet, but since we're less than 24 hours out from the start of the game, I'm not comfortable driving that wagon yet. I feel like it's in our best interest to do that to win the game, but it makes me squicky to lean that hard into demanding that everyone be here always--this is a game where the purpose of long day phases is that you

do

have time.

Anyway:

Pro-Posting:

- Anya
- Firebringer
- Andante
- Nero
- Flow Trap
- unwnd
- Chara
- Pooky? (commented on the page count, but joined the fluffiness)
- Shiro ("I am caught up")
- Murdercat (planned absence, but promised to be very present)

Ambiguous:

- Farkran
- xofelf
- Raya36
- Brave Heart Lion (has one post, but it's enthusiastic)
- Toadette

Anti-Posting:

- Dwlee
- SirCakez
- Beeboy? (has zero posts)
- Isis? (has one irrelevant post)
- Kazyan
- NorwegianboyEE
- Flea the Magician
- kdowns ("15 pages of shit")
- Save the Dragons ("holy crap there are a lot of posts")

Was this helpful? Probably not.

[Kazyan]

- kdowns ("15 pages of shit")

and I don't have 100 shit posts?

You totes do, but I was referring to this:

Also this. I saw game start and didn't know that I would have to sift through 15 pages of shit.

[Kazyan]

I think "town who isn't towning well" is more plausible for kdowns, but kdowns is still more likely to be scum than a random poster here.

Thinking back to that scumgod Prism newbie game, though, Flow Trap's town behavior in that game is consistent with their behavior here. So I'm just gonnna sheep. VOTE: kdowns

[Kazyan]

It's not a list of reads, though. It's a list of who was pro-fluff and who was anti-fluff. I don't have 24 distinct reads; a lot of people blend together.

[Kazyan]

Oh I see, I guess I misinterpreted. That makes more sense as the meaning of the list. Still not a fan of 614.

That's fair. To know more about how you think, why did you get the impression that I'd scumread myself? Did that come across as a Jester soft-claim or something?

[Kazyan]

I thought it was a joke of sorts. Like someone going "haha I'm scum " I always find that sort of thing strange, but people do it. I think Toadette's first post was claiming that they could be mafia, for instance. Strange all around.

Yeah, scum joking about being scum is what another player, Hana Song, once described as "guilty conscience" behavior from people who prefer to play as town instead of as mafia.

[Kazyan]

Also, she's doing this kinda weird thing where she assumes that the cats are the scum team just b/c the name is "dogs vs. cats" but many of you have said you are other animals and the town pm lists threasts as our enemy. Am I just overthinking this?

It's a good point, but lots of other people have gone with the "cats are the enemy" flavor as well? It's a data point.

[Kazyan]

Refusing to give a motivation for a vote. Yikes. VOTE: flow trap

this doesn't really mean anything Kaz

Understanding people's thought processes is entirely necessary in the game of Mafia, though. It's why people policy-yeet lurkers and people who refuse to claim at E-1; you can't tell what they're thinking and thus don't know whether that comes from scum or not.

who cares?

Truth, but how dare you.

[Kazyan]

I don't understand the idea that Andante is scum. Is it good that Andante is posting less? Yeah. Does that mean that posting a lot was a scum plot from the very beginning? Nah.

[Kazyan]

Did you read 629? She also kinda left after ppl got tired of all the shit/fluff posting and its not a great look either.

Oh, right. I was stuck on the "she's posting

too much

" sentiment rather than the patterns of what she was doing. This is a good observation and I think you're town.

[Kazyan]

????

I don't care about your read on me. What's your read on her?

My read on her is "I don't know". I think it's unlikely that scum would commit so hard to fluff-walling so early in the game, but I can't rule it out. She also sort of deflected onto the anti-fluff-wallers. There are scummy bits and pieces, but they don't cohere well into an image of scummy play for me.

[Kazyan]

Here's my readslist.

Townread

:
Nero

Townlean

:
Save The Dragons
Anya (gut read)
Toadette
unwnd

Null

:
(Everyone else not mentioned on this list)

I'm Particularly Confused About

:
Flow Trap
Andante
dwlee99

Scumlean

:
Beeboy
kdowns
Pooky (gut read)

[Kazyan]

I didn't do that in the first place because I did not have distinct impressions of players several hours ago, but the fluff density has lowered now.

[Kazyan]

I think it's just with Kaz it seems like it's initiating conversations on people other than himself? I just haven't like the feel of the buddy buddy that's been going on.

Should I be talking more about myself? Despite the rumblings, I have zero votes on me and I already know everything about myself, so I'm statistically the least interesting person in the game from my POV.

[Kazyan]

VOTE: Pooky

Pls give a real opinion about the gamestate

[Kazyan]

He/they; either one works.

[Kazyan]

Apologies for being anti-fun with my dourness. I'd been thinking with a puzzle mindset and didn't let the introductory levity in.

I wrinkled my nose a little, though not super much. Nero town read I agree on. I can see the you townlean, you come across a lot more different when you're being schemey and lying. Anya I follow, though I'd put her more into a null box so far. Toadette baffles me, but only because that's a null box. Admittedly, my only experience with Isis has been her as scum so far as I recall so I could just be watching her slot that much harder. unwnd is fine to be townlean, I feel that. Flowtrap is definitely a box of confusion, that's fine. Andante I feel good about, but this is also just fluff interactions were fun and I always like fun. And her reactions to people questioning her also feel totally in line with what I'd expect. Dwlee doesn't feel confusing to me? Hell i'd put them in slight townread box. I think how they've questioned people feels the way I'd expect town to go about it, doesn't feel like any bonkers reaches are happening, there's room for them to be wrong. Beeboy as scum is a bad read. Mans has one post, and it's one that makes sense. It would be one thing if this was like 4 RL days into Day 1 and he still had one or two posts. This is not that. Even given the assumption he won't play hard if scum, which I sure hope that's not actually a real thing he actually does cuz that's very =/, we're not even 24 hours into the game. This read can chill. kdowns also makes no sense to me as a scumread. He's barely got any posts, and feels like the ones he has given are all in line with a typical amount of engagement? idk, I don't get that one. Pooky as a gut read, sure I can't question gut reads too hard as a person who almost solely plays by them, but like Pooky's just been stuffed of fluff so far, I don't put too much into that.

So I guess you could tl;dr all of that and get, everything Null up I like, but confusion box down I do not.

Hmm. I like this post--it's rambly and uncurated in a way that is counter to the scum mindset.

[Kazyan]

Idea: People can find so many reasons to scumread Andante mostly because she has so many posts. Thus, more chances to say something someone dislikes, regardless of alignment.

[Kazyan]

SirCakez and Norwegianboy's votes for Andante look super opportunistic and weak to me, though they are almost definitely not scum together. SirCakez's explanation for the vote seems particularly like a made-up reason for me, in absence of having an actually good reason to scumread someone.

VOTE: SirCakez

[Kazyan]

Alright, I'm here again and I probably have an hour or two before work needs me. Does anyone have direct questions?

By the way my current opinion is that the kazyan wagon is scumdriven, i cannot believe for a second that he is being scumread for trying to organize the thread

Out of all the possible reasons to vote anyone, choosing to vote for busywork is terrible, and the wagon growing so high is opportunistic at best

Can we have a vc?

My hot take is that scum were in the half-dozen pre-wagon people throwing shade at me over and over, and when that didn't work, someone finally voted for me.

[Kazyan]

@kazyan why are you voting Cakez?

Because he added his vote (813) to a growing wagon with a weak reason that came out of nowhere. To me, it screamed "I just realized/was told that I should contribute to getting this miselim, but I need to come up something to explain my vote."

[Kazyan]

lol do people just hate every post of mine that isn't a one-line comment

[Kazyan]

I see what you're saying Kazyan, the reasoning given does boil down to that one post pinging Cakez. But also, that is more reasoning than I've seen from Andante so I'm not sure how I should interpret that.

That make more sense. I thought he was referring to posts like 792. That thought process looks genuine now, so UNVOTE: SirCakez.

[Kazyan]

All of it. You have like 100000 posts I'm not gonna dig individual things out. I don't have more to say on this than what I've said.

That's a relief, it hold no weight

VOTE: Flow Trap

[Kazyan]

It's not a list of reads, though. It's a list of who was pro-fluff and who was anti-fluff. I don't have 24 distinct reads; a lot of people blend together.

I really want to know why you made that list though, and what you were hoping to gain from it?[/spoiler][/quote]

I was trying to generate content. See what I was told in 477 and then in 503; I realized that I could make An Content to get us out of the fluff. But now everyone hates it because it's "IIoA", but what was there to analyze? The furry RP? I don't hate myself enough to pore through that.

[Kazyan]

Also, notice how quiet things are from former hyperposters (I'm particularly side-eyeing unwnd) now that I'm the center of attention.

[Kazyan]

Also, UNVOTE: Flow Trap because of this post:

ideally the honest answer but i appreciate that honesty too.

I don't remember why .-.

Scum would almost certainly make up a reason instead of saying this.

[Kazyan]

Spoiler: Slumber in peace

SirCakez and Norwegianboy's votes for Andante look super opportunistic and weak to me, though they are almost definitely not scum together. SirCakez's explanation for the vote seems particularly like a made-up reason for me, in absence of having an actually good reason to scumread someone.

VOTE: SirCakez

Votes are oppotunistic, they're unaligned, sir cakez is makin it up.
OK so why cakez over NBEE and how are they unaligned?

At the time, I saw SirCakez's weak explanation as more scum-inidicative--making something up--than NBEE's naked vote, which looked more like playstyle.

what are you talking about with unwnd? they've been posting a lot and haven't stopped.

Mea culpa. I'm having a hard time keeping track of everyone.

Kazyan what's your take on Pooky now?

Fallen off my radar. idk, maybe content with the gamestate.

[Kazyan]

As for SirCakez and NBEE not being scum together, it seems really bold for them to basically call each other out on what they're doing and then continue doing those things.

[Kazyan]

So yeah to the people who hate reading

Andante wagon bad because it is cultivated by potential Beeboy partners; Andante is limbait at worst
Beeboy partners mad that Beeboy not post
Beeboy continue to not post, we should vote him

Eh, screw it, seems legit. VOTE: Beeboy

[Kazyan]

It is Unwd. And you're one of the more arrogant players i've met to think you've "caught me" because i made some light jokes in a game.

Also this is 100% town!norwee

Farkran, my impression of you is that you're townreading basically everyone. Could you sum up who you think are most likely to be scum, if anyone?

[Kazyan]

Memory issues

flow i love that you do this, i do the same thing.

lol sometimes I ISO myself because I react in-the-moment and I have to figure out what I was thinking in the distant past of 4 hours ago.

[Kazyan]

I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.

Sticking this in my ISO for later.

[Kazyan]

ATTENTION DUELISTS!

MY HAIR HAS DECIDED THAT WE ELIMINATE BEEBOY!

[Kazyan]

I wasn't even trying to pagetop, but that's nice for effect.

[Kazyan]

I don't understand why we should ever eliminate a slot that doesn't even post. The allignment indicative information we'd get out of that flip if scum is zero to none. And if they flip town it's even worse.

But what if someone vigs Beeboy and we vote someone that will react more to pressure instead.

I mean if i was scum and i had someone like Beeboy as scum partner i would just buss him and say everyone who didn't vote him is scum.

This is strange. NBEE suggests that 1) flipping Beeboy would give no information, 2) that we wait for to see if we have a vigilante, and 3) that well, maybe the scum are just trying to bus Beeboy. What I'm seeing is that NBEE has no consistent townread rationale for disagreeing with the Beeboy wagon, and is simply trying very hard to save Beeboy.

If Beeboy flips scum, we should seriously consider whether NBEE was trying to save a scumbuddy here.

[Kazyan]

everything about what you said here... it's perfectly reasonable to not want to lim slots with no content... if anything, I think you're scum here for this post

I

strongly

disagree. Staying quiet benefits no one except for scum. That's why we policy-elim lurkers and have a prod timer.

[Kazyan]

Policy lim lurkers, jesus. You're definitely new around here aren't you.

Just tell me to go fuck myself next time instead of being passive-aggressive.

[Kazyan]

Seriously, the degree of condescension in that post is uncalled for.

[Kazyan]

where are your independent thoughts? all I keep seeing from you is sheeping onto other people's thoughts

1) I just posted an independent thought. 2) I sheep people frequently--when people bring up points I agree with, so goes my opinion, because this is a 24-person slugfest and my brain is not that big. 3) I'm probably not going to convince you regardless; this is phrased more like an accusation than a question.

[Kazyan]

In fact, if Beeboy is scum Pooky could be scum. Because it'd be a lot of cred for eliminating an non-participating teammate that would prob die anyway.

For reference, Pooky had a comment about this consideration earlier.

[Kazyan]

yea im sure scum pooky and scum unwnd saw beeboy sitting there doing nothing and decided it's a real good idea to kamikaze blitz him in case he ever gets back to the game and nails the entire scum team.

do you actually read the things you write?

I was gonna raise eyebrows at this, but I think it's something Pooky does as town, too--suddenly breaking character to call someone a dimwit when something is bothersome. My example is in Newbie 2059 (completed).

[Kazyan]

Impressions on Kaz really boil down to the sentiment he brings. That being there is none. My issue with Kaz can be summarized that I don't think he believes anything he's saying really, and his flippant behavior accurately depicts that. Look at his readlist in #704. Now look at where his vote at and how it's followed said read-list. Spoiler it hasn't followed it at all. Why would you scumlean Pooky in that post and then go 'oh well yup, I guess Beeboy is scum after all'. I would be considering why my scumlean is trying to drive a lim onto a no-presence slot. What are some other votes he's made so far? Pooky? That didn't last long, he moved on and voted Cakez in his #832. You'd think he'd stay with that vote and maybe grill his apparent read or I don't know, work with them? Nah, unvote Cakez I was wrong this whole time silly me don't scumread me for opportunistic behavior. There's a lot of accusations from him as well but like, it just doesn't go anywhere. I don't understand what he's gaining by making statements like

"Also, notice how quiet things are from former hyperposters (I'm particularly side-eyeing unwnd) now that I'm the center of attention."

What purpose does it serve? And again, the moment someone says 'no, that's not how it works' he immediately changes his mind. Added bonus: His stances have all been rudimentary and have mostly followed the order of town, bluntly put safe. He's playing so low to the ground his animal might as well be a mole.

On one hand, you're right about how diffident I'm being--all else being equal, you should definitely kill someone who's playing like this. I don't actually have a defense for how my actions can be distinguished from scum, tbh. On the other, I don't think I'm playing any differently than I did during Mini Normal 2187, during which I was town.

[Kazyan]

Gimme a minute; I'll make another list.

[Kazyan]

Townread

:
Nero (big solvy energy)

Townlean

:
xofelf (rambly in a way that scum do not curate)
Andante (she's indignant in that way that she seems to be as town)
SirCakez (Cakez's thoughts seem to fit together now that I've had the progression pointed out)
Firebringer (Gut read)

Null

:
Pooky
Murdercat
kdowns
Fark

I forget which one of these people are which

:
Raya
Flea the magician
Shiro
Anya
Iyveo

I'm Particularly Confused About

:
unwnd (too good at being scum to say anything is town-indicative)
flow trap (honesty, but scummy play?)
Chara (I don't want to give brownie points just for townreading me, but otherwise, ???)
Dwlee99 (responses seem very careful in a way that scum would want, but seems to actually try to solve the game)

Scumlean

:
Save The Dragons (ISO is full of softball questions that go nowhere)
NBEE (contingent on Beeboy being scum)
Brave Heart Lion (very parse posts)
Toadette (just dropped an analysis and left; that seems like a scummy move to get towncred and then let the arguments play out)

Scumread

:
Beeboy (refuses to post)

[Kazyan]

kaz I have another question to you if you don't mind:

Let's say hypothetically that you're scum here. What do you different? What makes you town here? I was a bit shocked you just laid down and went 'yeah I don't blame you for scumreading me'. I honestly don't mind when people defend themselves because I think people fail to understand one crucial aspect of this game

The best to know you is yourself. That's true for everyone. Defending yourself is not inherently scummy and it gives perspective

I've only had one scumgame, so I can't tell you if there's a pattern per se--but in that game, I spent the whole time arranging the town to make the following day go smoothly. Behind every miselim push, I was setting up another townie for failure. Here's an example in Newbie 2057:

Yeah, I'm really not vibing with an RVS meme-wagon being objectionable, during a period where there aren't actually enough players to hammer anyone, rather than the post contents.

This argument does not feel TvT.

This was my way of saying "I don't care which one of you gets wagoned, as long as I can start dunking on the other tomorrow". But I haven't done anything in this game that, if someone flips town, would tell me who to vote for on Day 2. I haven't been "scumhunting" in a way that gives me an excuse to tunnel tomorrow in a way that looks towny.

[Kazyan]

I've seen two of Andante's town games, and one thing that I haven't seen her do in them is to repeatedly assert that she's town--which she's doing in this one. I won't jump to conclusions and call that a scum tell, though.

[Kazyan]

That's why I'm not calling it a scum tell? It's something I simply noticed.

[Kazyan]

Anya is probably mafia I just don't care that much about it

?????

What is this post.

[Kazyan]

That's why I'm not calling it a scum tell? It's something I simply noticed.

Sure, but it probably should be.

I've seen two of Andante's town games, and one thing that I haven't seen her do in them is to repeatedly assert that she's town--which she's doing in this one. I won't jump to conclusions and call that a scum tell, though.

i feel like in the game below she says she is town a lot.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86324

+ Subsequent voting for me by Dragons

---

I feel like I should respond to both of these but I literally can't lmao.

[Kazyan]

You barbecue a dog to get it to stop barking at falling leaves at 4:30 in the morning, not to prepare food

[Kazyan]

pshhh you wake up at 4:30 to take dog on a run!

No thanks; I would rather dayvig myself

[Kazyan]

The best to know you is yourself. That's true for everyone. Defending yourself is not inherently scummy and it gives perspective

I've been thinking about this one. Like, I know what my scum tells are in Among Us--I overreact in defending myself and I gave too much info, e.g. nobody cares about what kind of burger I was making in the task; they just wanted to know where I was. But my writing voice is significantly different from my on-the-spot speaking voice, so I don't know how well those things translate. I curate my posts as scum in order to look like I have natural town reactions, but I also self-edit a lot as town in order to express my thoughts as clearly as possible; I'm on the sixth+ version of this sentence you're reading.

[Kazyan]

If someone put a gun to my head right now, I would not be able to tell you a single thing Shiro has said or what Shiro's avatar is, so

Can someone explain this

[Kazyan]

Shiro is at E-9; better make a decision chop chop

[Kazyan]

Crap, we need to consolidate and I'm on a low wagon, don't we. Uh.

I don't like NBEE but I'm still waiting for that case on Shiro tbh

[Kazyan]

I guess i just find it hard to believe Beeboy would literally just never post as scum? Isn't this borderline trust tell?

OK so you're not even reading. Bonus.

NBEE also did this when suggesting that scum could be bussing Beeboy after Pooky specifically addressed that argument earlier.

I kinda can't blame NBEE for not wanting to read 75 pages of text tho

[Kazyan]

These last few pages have done a thing where, like, I have to read through them all to catch up, but I realize that 90% of it leaves no impression (we're playing this like it's over an instant messaging program instead of a forum) and over half of my effort should be digging into xofelf's analysis, not figuring out what Andante and Nero are on about.

[Kazyan]

Shiro: There's not much in here, not really. But timezones can really fuck you. I don't really see the people calling this scum though. Feels like a super reach, they're no more scummy than a lot of the other slots that aren't posting much(which sure some of those could be lurking scum) but this doesn't feel like trying to fly under the radar or anything, but rather just trying when the time exists to do so. I don't see it. I do like the readspost they made. I just have a very genuine trying vibe to this slot, not overly compensating or just doing enough to be forgotten. It's all doing what they can manage.

I've been asking for a case on Shiro, but have received nothing. It's odd to me that the wagon appeared of nowhere with nothing obviously (imo) backing it, just a "yeah this seems like a good wagon, why not" vibe, and I think...maybe that's +town for people who jumped onto it? Like, why would scum just look at a wagon based on nothing with 1 or 2 votes and go "this is the least suspicious place to put my vote". We should review the Shiro wagon later.

[Kazyan]

Yeah, I've been trying to back off posting in hopes half the people decided they'd want to talk.. kdowns has done nothing but tunnel me.. and that is getting annoying

I mean to be fair. I only do it, because it has been getting a reaction out of you that has been peaking my attention.

oh no

I diagnose this post with Fake.

[Kazyan]

Okay, I caught up on these last few pages and honestly my eyes are kinda glazing over but on the subject on Anya, what is Anya even doing? I get the Flow Trap/Lunar Martian style of sliding your vote around wildly while hunting for information, but Anya just says something random and then votes. I don't see any

intent

going on there. I would be okay with yeeting Anya today, if we're giving Titus more of a chance to spew.

Some updates on reads: Brave Heart Lion is now null, Flea and unwind are full townreads, and I'm liking SirCakez more and more because he seems to be thinking a lot. NBEE is still scummy.

A thought on the pace of the game: people are expressing a lot of comments about the pace, such as "I need time to catch up" and "I'm not going to bother catching up". I propose that both of these kinds of comments are slightly towny, since an overwhelmed scumbuddy would be more likely to slide into their private thread and say "I'm not reading all of this, can you pls summarize for me?"

[Kazyan]

@Kazyan, Why would you move to Anya over NBEE if you find both are scummy and the pace needs to slow down?

"The pace needs to slow down" is not what I said, and I'd move to Anya if that's who we're trying to yeet today, but idk. All else being equal on Anya and NBEE, if it were up to me, I'd get rid of Anya first because I think my opinion on NBEE might be clouded by his lack of charisma? Except that I definitely don't want it to be up to me. There was a Newbie game I watched where Anya's behavior was kinda like in this one, and Anya was scum there, but idk. I'm also kinda waiting for that proposed 'Titus is easy to read' phenomenon to kick in.

people are expressing a lot of comments about the pace, such as "I need time to catch up" and "I'm not going to bother catching up". I propose that both of these kinds of comments are slightly towny, since an overwhelmed scumbuddy would be more likely to slide into their private thread and say "I'm not reading all of this, can you pls summarize for me?

I'm not sure this is a good idea. While lurky town do get behind often scum do this alot so....

Cool cool cool.

[Kazyan]

Wait what happened while *I* Was gone??

Hey everyone o/ don't have time to post rn will finish reading soonish
BOOKMARK: Page 55

like I specifically thought these prod dodgey type posts were from scum. Like I certainly understand that town do get behind but scum do this often so your request to give town cred to prod dodgers is denied.

Gonna be honest, Iyveo is still in the 'literally who is this person' bin for me so I can't really give an opinion

[Kazyan]

There are a lot of short flowery-sounding names in this game where people are like "Renyo is scummy" and I'm like "haha yes I definitely know which one you're talking about"

[Kazyan]

Hello!

I skimmed Ivyeo's ISO, and I think I see the scumcase on her now. 1509 seems like a soft/easy stance, 1964 pings me, and 1971 gives me a "contributing without actually contributing" vibe. 1974 actually bugs me the most, though--where did she catch up from? And her statement on Norwe doesn't say anything that can actually be responded to; it's the opposite of definitive. Adding the Shiro townread gives me pause, though.

[Kazyan]

@Kazyan, I'd like to see a readslist from you. Reasonless is fine.

You got it.

Townread

:
unwnd
Flea the magician
Nero
SirCakez

Townlean

:
xofelf
Andante
Firebringer

Null

:
Pooky
Murdercat
kdowns
Fark
Brave Heart Lion

Who are you people?

:
Raya
Shiro

I'm Particularly Confused About

:
flow trap
Chara
Dwlee99

Scumlean

:
Iyveo
Save The Dragons
NBEE
Toadette

Scumread

:
Anya
Beeboy/Titus

[Kazyan]

A few questions. If you buy Pooky's case on me, why is Pooky a nullread?

Why are Shiro and Raya on the who are these people line? They both seem present and working with the thread.

I want to know why on your confused people.

I'm taking it more as

unwnd

's case on you, not Pooky's. My read on Pooky is pretty stale.

I don't know what to tell you about the 'who are you people' line; I don't have enough of an opinion to answer questions on them. I've barely disentangled Anya and Ivyeo from that blob of indistinctness.

On confusion, I posted reasons in one of my previous lists, and they haven't changed much.
- Flow Trap has a towny honesty, but I found his play scummy circa post 1400, and I haven't updated on it.
- Chara townreads me hard and talks a lot, but I can't remember any specific insight that I attribute to Chara, so I'm stuck wondering if this is A) a good scum player trying to pocket me, or B) just an active townie and I'm overthinking things.
- Dwlee99...I should probably move to townlean or townread, come to think of it. They have a very curated style, and it seems like they might have an agenda, but they're actively trying to solve the game. But the interaction around post 1560 is special; it makes me think they're trying to get town to get with the program and solve.

[Kazyan]

VOTE: Pooky mostly as a note for how particular the bear's behavior has been, rather than like an actual push to get a bear-yeet on Day 1 when this wildness has happened because aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

I'm trying to think through how likely a single-ball groupscum would be to make a multiball fakeclaim--would that be advantageous? The layers of hypotheticals are piling up in my head.

[Kazyan]

I am wanting to know why you jumped to Pooky and not NorweiganboyEE, Kazyan.

Fear of commitment in the face of uncertainty, ofc

[Kazyan]

I am wanting to know why you jumped to Pooky and not NorweiganboyEE, Kazyan.

Fear of commitment in the face of uncertainty, ofc

More seriously, I'm trying to figure out whether I believe you or not, Titus.

[Kazyan]

Here, unwnd:

I believe Titus

,

and Pooky looks awful in these pages.

[Pooky]

[o]nly shows up to mentions of their name and to push the beeboy slot.

If it were plural, the congugations would read:

I believe Titus and Pooky

look

awful in these pages.

[They]

Only

show

up to mentions of their name and to push the beeboy slot.

[Kazyan]

Committing now despite nervousness

VOTE: Titus

I will be closing this tab for a while to discourage ruminating thoughts.

[Kazyan]

Closing the tab did not help and it looks like if I step away for an hour, I will come back to another 10 pages jfc

I think Andante might be genuine here; if she were scum fighting this hard to save Titus and then Titus flipped red, Andante would get yeeted on Day 2 or maybe vigged during the night. That would be too risky of a play, I think

Titus and Andante are either in two different scum teams, or are both town.

VOTE: NBEE

[Kazyan]

Don't care if Andante thinks I'm scum, btw

[Kazyan]

y can't titus be town and andante is scum?

Because thinking is hard. Either way, NBEE is a better spot for my vote than Titus.

[Kazyan]

Leaving the Alien cop alive will force them to submit an investigation result tomorrow. I think that's better information to have.

[Kazyan]

*her, excuse me

[Kazyan]

I switched to NBEE in post 2399

I'm getting tired, there's nothing to say. I don't know why i'm the one being wagoned, i just am. And i don't think Titus is scum.
Shrug.
Eliminate this when i flip?
VOTE: Flow Trap

Sure.

[Kazyan]

NorwegianboyEE can you give me reads?

I'm stuck with a problem that I don't really SR your wagon, I don't see much content from you, but I don't see why scum you doesn't want me dead?

Wait, this is a really good point. The only way this binary makes sense is if Titus is town and NBEE is non-alien scum, vice versa, or if you're both town.

...I'm kinda down for a Day 1 Pooky elimination now, tbh.

[Kazyan]

Closing the tab did not help and it looks like if I step away for an hour, I will come back to another 10 pages jfc

I think Andante might be genuine here; if she were scum fighting this hard to save Titus and then Titus flipped red, Andante would get yeeted on Day 2 or maybe vigged during the night. That would be too risky of a play, I think

Titus and Andante are either in two different scum teams, or are both town.

VOTE: NBEE

NorwegianboyEE can you give me reads?

I'm stuck with a problem that I don't really SR your wagon, I don't see much content from you, but I don't see why scum you doesn't want me dead?

Wait, this is a really good point. The only way this binary makes sense is if

Titus is town and NBEE is non-alien scum, vice versa, or if you're both town.

...I'm kinda down for a Day 1 Pooky elimination now, tbh.

Plausible combinations for these two constraints are thus, for the Andante/Titus/NBEE trio, respectively:

Andante = Town, Titus = Town, NBEE = non-alien scum
OR
Andante = Town, Titus = Town, NBEE = Town
OR
Andante = alien scum, Titus = non-alien scum, NBEE = Town

...and the latter doesn't make any sense, because an alien is not going to let a claim like "I'm an alien cop" live.

Therefore, it's likely that Andante and Titus are both town.

[Kazyan]

I'll have to [...] read the game.

Don't do this yourself; mental health comes first.

[Kazyan]

My NBEE vote is a compromise vote, at this point. I think I'd be more comfortable with an elimination of Anya or Pooky.

[Kazyan]

Page 101 is wild. I'm legit enjoying this game more than any previous Mafia game I've been in.

[Kazyan]

Hey unwnd, what's your opinion on this :')

[Kazyan]

Quick thoughts:

How does Kazy have me in the who are these people bin when I feel like I've been pushing them the most this game. No way they didn't notice that even if I've been on catchup mode

The act of pushing me is not unique to you at all, tbh.

[Kazyan]

VOTE: Anya to make this sporting

[Kazyan]

Fiiiiine

VOTE: Murdercat

[Kazyan]

Oh look, we're switching wagons again

Sadness covers me like a blanket. Tuck me in. Let me laugh.

VOTE: Anya

[Kazyan]

so the idea that we're going from someone who actually trust tell flakeouts as scum to some dude who loves trolling the shit out of the game as scum cuz lol lurk is just rofl what is even going on

I don't trust Pooky, but this analysis for why the Fireheart wagon sucks is on-point.

[Kazyan]

"Fireheart"

I expect to eat at least three votes for that

[Kazyan]

VOTE: NBEE

[Kazyan]

Like the fact MURDERCAT has gotten all the way up to fucking 11 and then people went 'lol wait kinda townie' tells me this is just pedantic multiball scum bs

Did you not see MC townspew? You can scream END DAY END DAY END DAY all you like, but we're not actually close to the deadline.

[Kazyan]

I don't care about "committing"; I care about finding scum and not doing their work of killing townies for them.

[Kazyan]

the deadline is a suggestion

not a period of time we need to spend posting

we are not working for shea

he is not going to punish us for not using all of the clock.

we are not getting paid an hourly wage.

we do not need to make day 1 200 pages

and day 2 200 pages

and this game end up being some unreadable 1000 page mess.

I was just about to post this thank you

Really? Because the impression I've been getting from my last few games, and what I've observed in the newbie queue, is that ending early is Haram and Scummy and Bad and you Must Recieve As Much Information As Possible and yes I'm just salty that there are perverse incentives to fun games on this website but I don't actually know what to do about any of it when I'm trying to find scum (which I am bad at). VOTE: Murdercat

[Kazyan]

in singleball small games you want more discussion

in multi-ball 20+ player larges you just want the page count to be manageable so you don't have to dig through a mountain of dirt to figure shit out when it's like day 9 and you're making a lylo decision

That makes sense

I've been overwhelmed by the page counts of even Newbie games, so I just figured that page count was a non-factor in the site and I had to just suck it up and deal with having a small brain. I was told by the guy who got me into Mafia that the long Day periods were an advantage instead of a detriment, because that meant that you didn't have to be there constantly...but the site meta is hyperposting = town, lurkers = scum, and the newbie queue hates it when you try to end early. I'm dead salty, fam

The way the entire lobby is approaching the tension between consolidation and deadline utilization is asinine. It's the weekend right now. No one is gonna ask anyone to reread this game in full, or they shouldn't. Lots of the posting has been highly alignment indicative. Everyone is framing things as you have to be on a popular wagon and you can't even jump ship to get a scum that was exposed by the formation of those wagons, which like dismantles the base purpose of building wagons

This post screams "I AM TOWN" to me.

[Kazyan]

I think I'm actually more mad at myself for invoking "lurking = scum" and "go all the way to deadline" than the site meta perverse incentives themselves, tbh. I just hate knowing that I've betrayed my principles so easily.

[Kazyan]

I feel sorry for the mod in having to keep up with this.

[Kazyan]

kazyan you've voted norway before, why is murdercat a better option?

Oh, it's definitely not. NBEE is tied for the leading wagon now, so now I won't get chewed out for lack of commitment! VOTE: NBEE

What's norwee at? I will absolutely Not_Mafia style hammer

Also if Norwee is scum Fark is scum with him, sentiment still applies!

Dooooo it

[Kazyan]

It takes 13 votes to be executed, y'all.

[Kazyan]

127 pages. Congrats

[Kazyan]

'Sup

I won't be around to debate all night, but we're definitely killing "Bojack Horseman, Alien Cop" during this day phase after we review the wacky sloshing wagons from yesterday.

[Kazyan]

hey titus does it actually say alien on role pm

The mod has already said "you can't directly quote your role PM" twice now.

[Kazyan]

lmao what was this

Someone else should unvote too; Titus could just quickhammer with Andante.

Anyway, so the shortlist of caught scum is 1) Andante and 2) Titus, with heavy suspicion on SirCakez, Flow Trap, and Fark? I'm willing to look over Cakez again, but Fark is taking me by surprise, partly because I don't remember any of what Fark has done as this point.

[Kazyan]

But then the next caught scum will claim Miller Cop Miller and be

outraged

that we find that implausible

[Kazyan]

We need a Cop Cop, a cop who finds cops (and millers)

[Kazyan]

Haha the joke is that Dwlee is already on the Andante wagon, so you can only hammer if you're off it.

VOTE: Andante whoops my finger slipped

[Kazyan]

After I replaced out of the game, I continued to watch it daily. Seriously, this one was a wild ride from start to finish.

The reason I replaced was that I didn't want to deal with all of the emotions that came from hammering a miselim after overinvesting myself in the game--it's something that I'll have to work on as a person. That said, I don't think my continued presence would have changed anything. I'm pretty much automatically /in for the next game that TSQ runs (if any), because I loved watching the plot twists, and the bastardry was entertaining.

Also, regarding town putting more effort...all three scumteams were absolutely diabolical in this game. I'll be disappointed if no Scummies awards come out of this; Cats, Dogs, and Rats all had excellent play from start to finish.

[Kazyan]

2) There were definitely opportunities for the game to turn in a different direction. For example on Day 5 when it was Raya vs Isis. If the town had chosen correctly there, they would've discovered the third scum group and been in a much better position going into that night. I still don't understand why anyone thought Isis was more scummy than Raya.

See, I wonder why Raya was even in the table, honestly. I figured that BHL would get voted off, because of the counterclaim.