FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Berserker]

Anyone who has not done so already should go read Cabds comments from the first game on the preliminary master vote. The short version is decide on a charismatic player to receive it, and let them either lead town or get taken out entirely if scum.

[Servant Berserker]

I’d argue that if your only qualifications come from a mechanical sense it is not a good idea to make you town leader.

[Servant Berserker]

I've one townread already. Let's see if I can find another on page 2.

I’m at one and one so far.

[Servant Berserker]

Beast, why did you feel the need to announce your vote and then make a separate post with it? Had you not made a decision by your initial post?

[Servant Berserker]

Subject: FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt (Game Over!)

As mafia, I see two valid approaches. One is to try and elect one of your own and bank on the powerups, and playing 10-3 with uber-charged roles. That one is good if you think your mafia team is all of equal skill, or you have three powerful players and one weaker player that you feel can be successfully "obvtowned" enough for a masterization.

The other approach, and the one that I would have taken with a mafia PM this game, is to drive the master onto somebody from the town who is unlikely to properly use the newfound status. Take a player who is good at appearing town but is lurky, or lazy, or divisive. Argue HARD that you're worried about mafia getting the role so you'd rather the obvtown lurksack, over the charismatic person who could be really good mafia. In this game, I would have been trying to drive the master powers HARD onto Foreigner, Berserker, or Caster.

Does this sound like anyone in this game so far?

Pedit-
I would like to be the master.

[Servant Berserker]

That is the first post caster has made that I agree with. Town master is the first priority, but we aren’t up a creek without a paddle if it hits scum.

[Servant Berserker]

Did you read the flipped roles from the first game, caster?

Pedit-
I have agreed with most of Egos posting.

[Servant Berserker]

Archer, Lancer, Egos all town. I could argue Caster either way, but it doesn’t seem likely scum is this.. off. At least not openly. I don’t like the posting from assassin and foreigner.

[Servant Berserker]

but it doesn’t seem likely scum is this.. off.

?

How am I off?

You have some very awkward stances, and I would think if you were scum you would at least have some kind of idea of the past game from one of your buddies by now. At this point in the game, I’m leaning you are the type of person I’d butt heads with, causing my initial skepticisms.

Pedit-
I disagree. Assassins overselling feels very inorganic, like a presidential election almost. And again, do not vote a master for solely role based reasons.

[Servant Berserker]

Assassins entire play has screamed “I want the master power up from whoever gets it.” I can’t be the only one who saw that.

[Servant Berserker]

Do you have any scumreads yet, ego?

[Servant Berserker]

I have yet to see anything that comes off as scummy, though beserker's appeal to cabd and the resultant thought to elect a charismatic town leader was off-putting.

Typically people don’t like when someone opposes their game plan. I brought up information I deemed important to make these decisions, and stand by my choices to prefer someone to lead than someone for the role itself.

Lancer is town. I respect them not wanting to lead, but they are town. 85 is self reflective on their own qualifications to lead, as well as actual need and optimization of them receiving the master. I also think that everyone, regardless of alignment wants to be the master, so the “Why is that?” is more about trying to get a read and feels like an unfair nitpick.

Rider should have engaged more, as should foreigner.

With regard to my read on egos, it might be a tad premature. I did find them saying a lot of what I was thinking, but I suppose arguing from a mechanical standpoint and not a scumhunting standpoint is much easier to fake.

[Servant Berserker]

As I’ve mentioned, most of this is coming off the back of listening to what the creator of the game would have done. I also, frankly, agree. Having been in games where confirmed town

is

a potato, I’d much prefer someone who is willing and capable of getting us on the same page (such as assassin in the first game). Someone central to prevent us going off on the wrong track via tunneling and the like. It’s honestly strange you don’t see the merit in a town leader, I feel like most decisive wins from town typically have a central figure.

I find not wanting the role for the reasons Lancer listed town, there’s more interest in preserving a good gamestate than selfish desire for the master (I’m not calling anyone out here, because I too have the desire). Ive also liked their tone throughout the game.

Pedit-
Agreed, as I’ve already said.

[Servant Berserker]

@Berserker - I was looking back over the game, and I am curious who were you referring to in post 50

Caster. I’ve come around to the idea that we just have polar opposite approaches to the game, but I did not like their constant reinforcement to focus on abilities anyway. I think it’s a pitfall, but there’s clearly more than just them that believes it.

[Servant Berserker]

You aren’t alone in that belief.

Has nothing stood out to you?

[Servant Berserker]

I was at 1 and 1 on page two.

[Servant Berserker]

What are your townreads looking like, foreigner?

[Servant Berserker]

Why for both? Did you not agree with Beast that most of Alters posting is mechanics based and thus probably not as town as some of us have said?

[Servant Berserker]

My first reaction was to laugh but I figured that wasn’t a conductive way to get more interaction. Then you said you normally have poor reads and I wasn’t concerned about it as much, even if it’s an excuse.

[Servant Berserker]

So your reason for scumreading us is the way we reacted to you scumreading us.

Pedit-
Foreigner, would you be interested in voting me to be master?

[Servant Berserker]

I agree that caster seems town. Don’t want them as master though.

[Servant Berserker]

Foreigner, would you be interested in voting me to be master?

Why do you want to be master? I haven't seen it, and it would help me read you.

I provide both day and night benefit. I play mostly PoE, so I’d upgrade correctly and provide a central voice who is good at working with a variety of people

I agree that caster seems town. Don’t want them as master though.

I am uncertain on Caster and I disagree with their conclusions. Can you explain why they're town?

I think Caster, while misguided, genuinely believes that they found scum in me and archer. I liked their self doubt with regards to their stances, and I believe scum would not be as misinformed about how this whole setup works through virtue of having their team talk about it. I don’t think someone who is not willing to put in the work to optimize use is a smart choice to lead, and I also think they will take the obvious choice of promoting Assassin.

Did you read the flipped roles from the first game, caster?

Pedit-
I have agreed with most of Egos posting.

Berserker, were you going somewhere with this question?

Just that caster seemed very uninformed in general, if I’m remembering correctly it was after some confusion about how the master role worked.

[Servant Berserker]

Unless my count is off we’re still waiting on one or two to check in.

I also think we could use some of today’s extra pages to discuss an elim, rather than burn them.

[Servant Berserker]

I agree about Assassin getting better once they actually started to engage, even if I disagree with their Lancer stance.

And to lancer, who I forgot to respond to- the instance I recalled was about towns master. I will look when I have more time for the exact post.

[Servant Berserker]

Again, Assassins motivation was never the initial master. They admitted as such.

Lancer is the easiest read in the game followed by Archer, it’s part of why Moon’s readslist is so awkward.

[Servant Berserker]

And deeper information comes with more data. We still are missing some slots.

When I am at a computer I intend to try and put some more work in. Won’t be for at least two hours. As is, my primary concern is building an initial block and holding them to standard as the game progresses(For instance, getting actual reads and thoughts out of Egos). Until we get our first flip, we play it by ear.

It should go without saying I will reevaluate later, as I assume most of this game will. But for now, they are town enough.

[Servant Berserker]

If I’m remembering correctly Lancer also asked to not be master.

I currently have three (four with you) in favor of me, not including myself.

Pedit-
It could be premature, yes. Do you think the post about how we reacted to his scumread came from a scum mindset?

[Servant Berserker]

We can discuss in full later, and maybe Archer will also join in.

[Servant Berserker]

What do you not like about it?

[Servant Berserker]

I wouldn’t hesitate to call it a town post from Caster, considering the follow through from early on about us, Archer. Not sure if I should be concerned about the rigidity and refusal to reevaluate with more information, but it is still in the first phase. Plenty of time to eat words down the line.

Pedit-
Will you two let me post

[Servant Berserker]

As I’ve already highlighted there’s at least four or five people who prefer me at the moment. If anything it is just progressing the game.

[Servant Berserker]

Only one way to test your theory, no?

[Servant Berserker]

Your entire case you’ve laid out is that we ignored your scumread and Archer is trying to push for me to be master. You haven’t laid out the rest of your thoughts, so how is anyone supposed to try and see them through your lens?

And as another note entirely, why are you expecting a likely seasoned player list to play inside a neat little box in the first place?

[Servant Berserker]

Archer, do you have any thoughts on the convenience of the Miller claim in conjunction with Assassin? I was debating how scum would approach this, as I already laid out the postgame notes from the last game.

I’m not saying Assassin is scum either. I just wouldn’t be surprised if one of the main contenders did end up flipping red. Maybe some scum in the people arguing purely for a mechanical choice, and maybe one in the town leader side as well.

Pedit-
Not disagreeing, I just would not expect seasoned players without the shackles of meta to stay in their normal box. Who’s town and who’s scum, Rider?

[Servant Berserker]

Without us there are multiple others heavily considering making me the master that you would need to dissuade, those are who you need to outline it for. I’m not asking you to convince someone of their alignment, I’m asking you to do more than sit back and fearmonger.

Pedit-
Wasn’t a fan either, but who ever is a fan of Miller claims?

What do you need to get invested in the game?

[Servant Berserker]

Page count restarts.

[Servant Berserker]

I can quote a few random posts from different ISOs for you and you can share your thoughts, or you can talk about how you believe we should be choosing our master.

You are also welcome to address my questions to Archer- how do you think scum positioned around the master debate? Did they all take the same side, or divide and conquer?

Pedit-
And again, there’s one way to test that theory. My point isn’t that everyone saying I should be master is scum, my point is that you keep trying to draw associatives for how Archer and I could be a team without explaining what exactly it is each of us has done to seem scummy. But you are asking for Archer to explain his townread. There’s a double standard I am trying to rectify.

[Servant Berserker]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

Name names.

[Servant Berserker]

You are saying scum is trying to derail from Saber while best I can tell, you are townreading myself, Lancer, Archer. That leaves Ruler, Egos, foreigner potentially. Foreigner is not really doing anything. Ruler only voted me when prompted by me. Have you come around to a scumread on Egos? Because otherwise, all you are doing is trying to discredit me as an option.

[Servant Berserker]

And the other side of that coin, is that if you don’t want me to be master, you need to explain why I’m scum.

[Servant Berserker]

Why should I want to give Saber the master? Something that is not about mechanics.

[Servant Berserker]

You seem very critical of everyone else. Why is that?

[Servant Berserker]

You seem very critical of everyone else. Why is that?

I'm fairly critical of myself and I don't really get why you think you should get this grail over another town player who comes off as pretty genuine. You're colder and harder to read.

I don’t townread Saber, and think playing solely around the mechanics is misguided, as I’ve already said.

How can I help you read me better?

Pedit-?
My accuracy depends on the style of game I’m playing. This style is my most accurate. I do well in my other styles too, but this type of game does a lot to help cover my weaknesses.

[Servant Berserker]

Yes, we all remember the plot of the Incredibles. Thank you for elaborating on your Saber read, I’m going to go take a look.

Pedit-
I thought you used to be Incrediboy or something.

[Servant Berserker]

I did agree with the skepticism about moon upon review, and forgot it was Saber who asked me about my Caster read. I’d definitely put them in the lean town arena, thinking about it now.

[Servant Berserker]

That thought also crossed my mind. I’m still waiting for them to continue the line of questioning with Egos, because I felt like their read on me in particular felt somewhat flimsy.

[Servant Berserker]

My count has me at four. Don’t love Avengers vote, but that seems to be a theme with Avenger posting.

[Servant Berserker]

You don’t think there’s been resistance to me? What do you think Beast and Caster have been doing, exactly?

[Servant Berserker]

Did anyone oppose Saber election? I don't like recent lack of resistance

What was this in response to then? I don’t think Saber experienced much resistance besides myself saying we need to think of all sides of the role (Archer also shared similar sentiments). I’ve already outlined resistance to me and most everyone has resisted Assassin, so this comment feels out of place.

[Servant Berserker]

Maybe I was unclear on your phrasing (and in mine). I thought you were saying “I prefer Saber because there has been no resistance to Berserker” and that felt strange given the resistance I had from Beast and caster. But instead, it seems you are saying “Why was Saber not voted, where is this resistance coming from” and I don’t have any other arguments other than those I’ve already made, and the fact that people seem to be townreading me more than Saber/believe I would do better in the leadership position.

[Servant Berserker]

I don’t think I implied a scumread on either of you. I’m still trying to figure you out but have been fairly vocal in my townread of caster. And again, we run into the issue of “where is scum positioning.” If I had to pick one vote I didn’t like for me, it would be Avenger. I’d also argue that Foreigners recent line of defense puts him in that same arena, and would be my choice for scum of the three of you.

I hope we see how Ego’s reads progressed through the early game at some point, because that would do a lot to help firm up the read there. I liked Archer’s interaction with Caster. I’ve liked the quick wit coming from Lancer, and the posts I’ve already mentioned.

[Servant Berserker]

Bad choice of words, sorry. I was speaking in reference to you highlighting the lack of spoken resistance to Saber.

[Servant Berserker]

Archer
Saber
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Ruler,Avenger,Foreigner
Caster,Beast
Berserker
Assassin
Alter Ego

VOTE: Saber

Archer
Ruler
Beast,Caster,Berserker
Shielder,Lancer,Rider,Avenger,Assassin
Saber
Foreigner
Alter Ego

VOTE: Servant Berserker

It seems like your entire readslist has flipped, can you explain what changed for each of-
Saber, Ruler, Beast, Caster, me, Assassin, and Foreigner?

[Servant Berserker]

And beast?

My big concern is there have been several people expressing concern over your reads, and such a rapid flip without detailed explanation into it seems rather opportunistic. For instance, which reads that ruler gave did you find the strongest? You said that your reasons to scumread me were incorrect but have not explained what it is that made you townread me. Why is Ruler conditional on the flips of Saber and Foreigner?

Side note, I’m at M-2. Speak now or hold your piece.

[Servant Berserker]

I just recounted and I’m only at four, apologies for the incorrect count. Took Lancer’s intent as an actual vote I guess.

Pedit-
It’s not like I’m avoiding questions. Noones really had any for me.

[Servant Berserker]

That was continuing my line of questioning into Moon, who didn’t elaborate on their change of heart on you in particular. Not much elaboration in general, but you were left out of the post entirely.

Pedit-
I didn’t do a super big one, but it did help refresh my memory on some things (I admittedly attributed to lancer) that I found somewhat towb, as well as agreeing with your stance on the questioning the wagon being a good look. It helps we agree about Moon.

[Servant Berserker]

It's like, I don't find Saber's ability description all that enticing, but I find the wagon composition for Berserker to be slightly disturbing.

I also find my wagon composition disturbing. Which are the worst votes and why?

[Servant Berserker]

I've spent the past few hours working on this and am not fully satisfied, and have some more things I want to look into. But for sake of advancing the game and providing insight into my PoV, this is about where I am at. Anyone below the town is subject to move. Some of these can easily go up or down depending on answers to questions.

Town Reads

Servant Lancer

- As I have said before, I find Lancer to be fairly town for their self introspection about why they did not want to be the master in 85. I also liked the follow up on my earlier question in 220 as well as their stance on caster in 248 as it is a weird approach for scum to take when preparing a read. Combine this with the following 249 of snappy comments felt genuine. I still expect to see some solving out of them to keep their spot amongst the stars.

Servant Archer

- I might have a soft spot for my biggest fan. Besides that, we have moved in near lockstep for the duration of the game. Given my late appeal to be the master, I don't think I would be the choice for scum to buddy, so that lends itself to similar motivation by virtue of similar alignments. 41 is an earlier one I thought but never said. For recent instances, take a look at their interaction with Caster. It is genuinely trying to explain and be transparent to allow Caster the information needed to reevaluate their read and overcome the tunnel. I'm speaking of 369, 372. I also appreciated the transparency regarding his changing perspective about who should be town master in 376, particularly with regards to the unvote of Saber and how they were developing a new decision.

Servant Caster

- Caster seems like misguided town. As I have said already, I believe scum would not be as clueless about the history of the game (it frankly surprised me any player would not look up how the roles looked last game). This is followed up by the development of the read on 194. I think scum would be a tad more flexible than to hold on to a page 2 scumread in a dead tunnel as well, including the situational awareness in 351 about my professed reads, and following up again on getting more information out of me in 469. My biggest complaints here is that despite opposing my master they have not shared any reasons I could be scum beyond pre-flip associatives, but I assume they just think hiding their case will give it more gravitas.

Servant Alter Ego

- They, like Archer, have been mirroring a lot of my thoughts throughout the game. I did drop them down some when Beast pointed out that it was mostly mechanical and easily faked. 299 was the same thing I was thinking. I also liked their comments in 427 about how Beast was campaigning for Saber by virtue of making resistance a scumtell, and while somewhat abrasive, I do agree with their analysis on Beast spending a lot more time critiquing everyone else, and 441 feels somewhat against the grain as well. I also liked their shutdown of the back and forth with beast in 457 and feel like scum don't shut things down quite like that. I don't think scum has any incentive to shut down the line of questioning in the first place, and if they were going to, would choose something more along the lines of discrediting.

Lean Town

Servant Saber

- I was not initially townreading them, until I did the review after talking with Beast. The points I found easiest to swallow were about their suspicions of the building master wagon on them, in specific the Moon suspicion listed in 235. I also had issues with the Moon reads list, and their justifications were weak. I found it town to be comparing his location to the other candidates and draw that conclusion.

Servant Foreigner

- This was the hardest one on the list for me to place. It changed up slots upon my reread, for one post in particular. 162 is a town post, that's a town confession. Yes, scum has to remember who people are to fake reads and yada yada, but I don't think scum just comes out and says it. They have other good posts such as 171 which showed good gamestate awareness, and I think 388 is a little too blunt to come from scum. It isn't as strong as my other townreads, but enough to put him at the bottom of my town list.

Null

Servant Rider

- This is just under the line. I liked the pause about the wagon composition in 489. I liked their confusion about Moon and Egos coexisting on the wagon in 492 because it brought up something I missed myself. I liked his call back in 490, as it shows he is trying to get into Saber's head and seeing if his statements are holding up as time goes on.

Servant Ruler

- I find myself wanting more from their posts. It's pbpa, but majority of the comments are just "this post is pure of heart" without walking through the thoughts that make them believe that. I disagree with their moon stance, but that read is somewhat against the grain. I'm almost tempted to call them town for that read, if they actually explained what it was about not one, but both of Moon's readslists they found town. The other thing I find myself leaning town on from them is the read on Saber. It's an awkward angle for scum to take when trying to start a push on someone. I could see it, however, providing plenty of backtracking via "Oh I guess I was wrong on who it was"

Servant Assassin

- They were my first scumread of the game, I was not a fan of the "I have a strong role master me" as others have already shared, its an easy way for scum to get the master without actually committing anything. I did end up liking their thoughts once they started analysis, and while I disagreed with it liked the read on Lancer in particular. Now, you might be asking why they are in null. I will hit on this further later.

Lean Scum

Servant Beast

- I have mixed feelings here. On the one hand, I think their pushing Saber and belief of that feels genuine, and I liked their response to me in 348. I wish there was more follow up and actual trying to read me, I tried to extend a hand to allow them into my head but nothing ever truly came of it. I do agree with Alter's analysis that there does seem to be a lot of questions and very little analysis or follow up, it mostly seems to revert back to "We need to master Saber." As of this point in the thread, I think they have declared 4/5 reads? But there was a good chunk of time they only had two actual reads, and I found it hard to believe they had no other impressions.

Servant Avenger

I didn't like the miller claim. I will hit on this more later.

Scum

Servant Moon Cancer

- Originally one could have made the argument that such controversial reads in 226 were more likely to come from scum. Then, they change their entire list up in 462 after receiving a lot of flak over a few of these reads, one central one is their read on me. They justify the read on me in 238 (and I use the term justify lightly). The person who calls it out (other than me I believe) is Alter, their lowest scumread. There is no backtrack, there is no attempt to read me, just a strange flip. Even if they said "Well my strongest townread is pro-Berserker Master" that would at least make some sense. The backtracks feel too inorganic.

[Servant Berserker]

@Berserker.

Let's assume you're town. Your townreads are correct.

What do you suppose the scum team is trying to do?

Why have they chosen to not contest and allow you to just waltz into Town-Leadership and take Mastery without really putting up any kind of fight whatsoever?

I’m sure you’ve seen the recent uptick in do nothing and lose scumteams, right Caster?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they pushed for me to get the master because I haven’t spent any time talking about my role. There’s a thought that crossed my mind that if Saber is scum, it’s incredibly likely to find more scum in the “just follow the mechanical strength” group. But besides that point, how often is it scum is actually on the same page in day play?

Pedit-
There is always a need for reevaluation down the line when more information is made available. See the recent MD thread about mind melding, in situations like this where information is limited, it’s things like that which help jump someone up the reads list. If people decide to wagon them, then so be it. I’m not going to shut down people who think differently, and I’m not going to let those at the top coast either.

At the end of the day I want to win this game. If I make a mistake in an early readslist (that was somewhat unpolished), I would obviously be open to hearing about it down the line. But I’d require actual casing, for pretty much everything. We can’t use meta or anything, this is going to come down to who can find scum and case them the best.

I’ll toss this question back at you. If scum were to contest, how exactly would they do that besides the consistent nay saying and critiquing the wagon. Hell, some could even argue having scummier members vote the wagon to try and stunt it’s momentum is a tactic.

But my bottom line is that if scum did have a tactic coming in, it was either “don’t go for the master” or “make a play for master by promising strong mech”

[Servant Berserker]

Wow my formatting got fucked.

Middle two paragraphs are supposed to be at the end.

[Servant Berserker]

When someone gets confirmed.

I'd also like Caster to case me and archer before the hammer happens.

[Servant Berserker]

For instance, 464 does a good job of explaining the differences between their reads and mine. Servant Moon Cancer shows a strong individual thought process there unique to them, with reads that serve no function if they are corrupted.

Servant Ruler gave great reasons for many people. Ruler is terribly wrong on Ego, and the reasons for the reads on Ego, Rider and Lancer are too weak for me.

They only highlight the differences in your readslist. They do mention which reads they found weaker, but not why they are weaker (or why the other ones are stronger).

It is also in part because there is no backtrack. There is simply a flip. A corrupt servant is more likely to try and justify a shift in their reads thanks to fear of suspicion were they to not justify it.

This is a solid point I also considered, and its why I've been trying to get more information on what exactly they are seeing.

pedit-
Did you finally go read Cabd's post? He highlights that some picks would be likely to devolve into a tunnel. I've limited how much I've talked about scumreads before this and have focused more on the town side to try and prevent this should I have become our final choice.

And again, you aren't the only person throwing shade at my wagon. Multiple people have complained about the wagon composition, Beast has outright debated with me over it.

As for why you have not been pushed for it, I said early on I didn't want you as master and there was some agreement from the masses. It seems most people have been regarding you as lost, and it's hard for scum to make a push for a "lost" player to be the master.

[Servant Berserker]

My role is fairly strong so I knew I wouldn’t hate it. I had no problem giving it over to someone who could actually lead, but the only two contenders were both more focused on the mechanical side instead of the other responsibilities.

So I guess before I knew I kind of wanted it. After game start I decided I need to more actively campaign.

[Servant Berserker]

The concept behind those somewhat innocuous quotes from Foreigner is the concept of a censor. I don’t think scum just comes out and says stuff like that, but town doesn’t really care.

[Servant Berserker]

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=84100

[Servant Berserker]

I’d appreciate it if everyone’s next post could include two people they prefer and two people off the table when it comes to elimination one. Preferably with detail about each.

[Servant Berserker]

I think that’s an angle shoot and is going to get you in trouble js

[Servant Berserker]

Interesting post to laser in on.

[Servant Berserker]

Which post do you think I was talking about that shielder referenced? Do you know why it bothered me?

[Servant Berserker]

Which post do you think I was talking about that shielder referenced? Do you know why it bothered me?

This question is open to the general public as well.

[Servant Berserker]

Yeah, her simultaneously being aware and unaware of what's going on in recent times seems too convenient for me. Good catch.

[Servant Berserker]

Those behind should catch-up by tomorrow so we can get this show on the road.

[Servant Berserker]

The most confusing thing about beast is they fluctuate between antagonizing and then acting like the victim. It’s not like they are using the antagonizing to read, either. It’s just antagonizing for antagonizings sake.

[Servant Berserker]

The most confusing thing about beast is they fluctuate between antagonizing and then acting like the victim. It’s not like they are using the antagonizing to read, either. It’s just antagonizing for antagonizings sake.

Disregard this.

I’ve been coming around to the thought that Saber might be scum but would appreciate a case from those scumreading them.

And we are still waiting on Caster to outline their thoughts about me and archer.

[Servant Berserker]

Lancer, Archer, what are your thoughts on Saber?

[Servant Berserker]

Am I afraid of the guy who I’ve pretty convincingly beat out for the master and had as lean town in my readslist?

Not really. Trying to figure something out.

[Servant Berserker]

Afraid of the person, sorry.

[Servant Berserker]

After, I think I brought that up already though. You’re first of the two.

[Servant Berserker]

My first edition of my readslist had rider in the lean town section. I have zero qualms moving them up, for a lot of the same reasons alter just listed.

Foreigner, do you have any reasons other than lack of resistance you prefer Saber over myself? You’ve been hinting at it for a while despite your “whoever has the most page tops” stance.

[Servant Berserker]

Foreigner, do you have any reasons other than lack of resistance you prefer Saber over myself? You’ve been hinting at it for a while despite your “whoever has the most page tops” stance.

I said that i don't want Saber. Still why do i need to pick between two of you? I know why Saber wants to be master but why you? You keep arguing why other people are bad candidates and never argument, who would be a good one besides you. Also you never spoke why would you be a good master or vote for yourself.

I misunderstood your intentions with your comments then, that’s on me.

As I’ve said, I have a strong role but am more interested in actually leading the town during the day phase. The other candidates just wanted to use their roles. The day phase was an afterthought.

[Servant Berserker]

I’ve tried multiple times to reach out and understand, as well as provided a giant in depth wall of my thoughts on everyone on the player list. I don’t know what else you need. Can you please do more than just complain?

[Servant Berserker]

I probably misphrased.

I just don’t understand what else I can do to show you before the mod does and it’s frustrating. I don’t even fully understand your reasoning, and I want it out so people have it to analyze as you are one of the main people against my wagon. Without it out there, there’s a possibility you can come under suspicion down the line for being so vague.

[Servant Berserker]

I’m ready to move on if the rest of you are.

[Servant Berserker]

If you are writing it by all means! I thought you were saying you weren’t going to. I’d genuinely like your thoughts to look through.

[Servant Berserker]

My accuracy depends on the style of game I’m playing. This style is my most accurate. I do well in my other styles too, but this type of game does a lot to help cover my weaknesses.

Only nitpick, Caster.

[Servant Berserker]

What do you think scum would actually do?

[Servant Berserker]

My point is this gives us a springboard to have a base idea of the optimal strategy for last game to prevent it from happening this game. Yes, obviously scum won’t do the optimal things both due to lack of knowledge and a plethora of other reasons. But by cutting off the optimal play we force them into a suboptimal play, which was my intention.

[Servant Berserker]

I don’t think we can ever be positive who has the best role.

I mean, I could just be putting my foot in my mouth. Maybe I’m super off, but what’s done is done. I’ll let people read over Casters case. But it’s time to move on and catch scum.

[Servant Berserker]

Looking at you, lancer.

[Servant Berserker]

That’s why you use different themes on different accounts.

[Servant Berserker]

It’s 8 votes not 7.

[Servant Berserker]

VOTE: Berserker

[Servant Berserker]

sorry, I guess

I got lazy and just didn't give full consideration to what caster was saying because I felt like this was happening no matter what and the game was falling into an apathetic state

So I kind of just rolled with it hoping I was right

I shouldn't have done it and I feel terrible for freezing out my townread here

This is a town reaction.

[Servant Berserker]

What do you think of the other reactions, Beast?

[Servant Berserker]

I agree, Lancer's felt kind of meh. Not enough to wagon there but enough for a firm scolding and a demand they bring me scum.

I wasn't a huge fan of Saber's initial post either, it felt like it was explicitly avoiding the elephant in the room while simultaneously feeling obligated to post.

[Servant Berserker]

Assassin, does your cop shot go through the miller or circumvent it in a different way?

[Servant Berserker]

Pretty sure I get the idea. I'll keep that in mind for now. Why include a miller with a role like that, though? That's not really adding up for me.

[Servant Berserker]

Caster, I would like you to do a hard reset and give me a few scum picks when you are up.

Still waiting on Shielder's finished catchup as well as the others to chime in tomorrow.

[Servant Berserker]

Did you read your reaction to my flip? I expect better.

[Servant Berserker]

What do you think of the other reactions?

[Servant Berserker]

I return "No Result" when investigated. Strange combination of roles.

[Servant Berserker]

Want to make me a tier list where you are at? Open question to everyone.

[Servant Berserker]

There's a 0% chance scum don't have tons of fun toys. It's why we crush them with day play.

[Servant Berserker]

Archer, I think we need to look through the people on my wagon. Particularly the middle few votes.

[Servant Berserker]

I would like a readslist with some explanations, Avenger.

[Servant Berserker]

Tell me more about your preferred pool, rider.

[Servant Berserker]

Spoiler tag it. I’d like to hear your thoughts on all of them

[Servant Berserker]

I would like some detailed reasonings for all of your reads please.

[Servant Berserker]

It doesn’t have to be a wall, just more specific than “this is a town post. This is a scum post” because as is, playing like an enigma has you in the hot seat.

[Servant Berserker]

Moon.

[Servant Berserker]

I will hit on this further later.

later? when?

I’ve already brought up that I’m immune to investigations and think that’s weird in conjunction with the claims on the table.

[Servant Berserker]

I was expecting a vanilla cop, in all honesty. Games most likely balanced around that role.

[Servant Berserker]

It was after your first post that no one townread if I’m remembering correctly. Not your first catchup.

[Servant Berserker]

In other news, grass is green. More on this at 11.

Ruler is town.

[Servant Berserker]

I’d argue this game is already heading that direction.

[Servant Berserker]

Also pending certain things, i think sabers claim is believable enough

I don’t think the question is if his claim is believable or not.

[Servant Berserker]

Also pending certain things, i think sabers claim is believable enough

I don’t think the question is if his claim is believable or not.

The issue is, Saber made a big deal on how powerful their Noble phatasm is and there is a very small amount of characters that i can see holding such a phatasm

I can also see the mindset of what they were thinking and why the believe it to be a powerful tool early on and not as much later on given that i also agree that most of the toxic 1v1s happen earlier rather than later.

I'm also unsure that this is how scum campaign to sacrifice themselves to better their team

And you think this is a more powerful tool than a cop? I’m going to need some more from you once you are done your catch-up because you have some very weird takes

[Servant Berserker]

Where is the president?

I would like him to weigh in on the three wagons

Just got home from visiting family over the past two days. Saber wagon is my wagon of choice. Followed by moon. I think the foreigner wagon is trash.

[Servant Berserker]

I hadn’t weighed in before now to try and preserve VCA as best as possible, but I think it’s 100% ridiculous that was the role Saber was so gung ho over.

Foreigners wagon has very little in actual substance about why he could be scum and appeared out of almost nowhere, and that put me off.

[Servant Berserker]

Caster, your disappearance is incredibly unnerving and I need to see more things from you ASAP.

Archer and Lancer are still town, Ruler is town, alter is town. Shielder is town.

Rider is leaning town, I quite enjoyed their wall. Caster disappearing is concerning.

[Servant Berserker]

As long as it’s in Saber or moon I’m happy.

[Servant Berserker]

Saber. I think that flip will provide tons of information even if wrong. But it’s mind boggling to me to view that play from town.

[Servant Berserker]

Yes, Saber should claim.

[Servant Berserker]

Why?

It seems to me that sabers being scum read largely for a difference in playstyle and ideals.

I also don't entirely yet understand moon cancer but I think im overall going to give saber a light townread

These ideals were that a scummy role was more powerful than a cop shot. As archer has already said, if scum were going to make a play for the master it would be through promising early power that isn’t good late, something they can explain around later should they not get it (but not have to explain if they did get it)

[Servant Berserker]

I’ve been thinking on that claim and I think I believe it.

I’m going to ruminate on it some. But moon should claim and then die.

[Servant Berserker]

now this just seems weird

[Servant Berserker]

That is quite helpful, Archer.
I will likely heed at least some of my predecessor's advice as to reads, so the link to that is a particular boon.
Also I likely would have called this out eventually but that makes it a good time to state the biggest impact of investigations on me failing is that a watcher would not be advised to target me.

[Servant Berserker]

I get whip lash going from 1260 to 1262.

I would not mind Avenger still being our first flip, but I could go for Moon as well

I'm somewhat of this mind myself. The way the challenge ended confuses me.

[Servant Berserker]

I believe gladiator's can cancel their ability, I'm not sure if every gladiator can do that or if this was a unique mechanic where the name was revealed as a consequence in exchange for the ability to cancel.

Avenger can still be a scum miller, but his flavor is very spot on so I'm not sure they lied about anything.

cancelling gladiates outright is not a mechanic I believe is common

[Servant Berserker]

Help, Ruler broke character

is this important?

[Servant Berserker]

Personally I feel that a traffic analyst claim should at least earn Saber a night to attempt actions

I don't think TA is going to yield much given Moon's flip

[Servant Berserker]

If I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence: I told you so.

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I'm not going to immediately jump on Avenger for the hasty gladiate, that was a dumb and incredibly frustrating move but I'm not sure if scum would willingly draw so much attention to themself like that. I have a few other people in mind I want to take a look back at.

Given this I take it you think scum should be off the Moon wagon, especially the initial one?

[Servant Berserker]

nice progression over two hours

I'm gonna be upfront that I'm very likely not going to condemn someone off progression alone because some people just have disconnected thoughts ig

[Servant Berserker]

Me and saber were first to catch Moon, so you should follow me now.

where did you two "catch" Moon?

[Servant Berserker]

that's not "catching" scum
otherwise you could catch scum by just voting every player

[Servant Berserker]

does anyone have any idea what Ruler is doing rn?

[Servant Berserker]

the big wtf for me is the self-vote

[Servant Berserker]

I think that people SR ruler improperly. She is not positioning herself against Saber, which as scum she would. She just disagree with people for sake of her ego.

this is kinda what I feel is the case myself
mostly because of the self-vote tbh

[Servant Berserker]

I'm feeling like foreigner is a solid vote option
don't feel good about eliminating ruler
saber is being voted for the incongruity between their claim and asserted role strength during the master selection phase, right? I see how that's scummy, but I kinda think there's also room for doubt since iirc there's some sort of thing where roles get upgraded if chosen for master? I don't think I quite get that whole deal yet

[Servant Berserker]

If a town Master is selected, the town Master + servant is revealed as an innocent child and becomes unkillable by ANY means until day two has passed.

The servant in that slot will additionally have their role modified to account for the additional support they now have

. Day 1 will become an double-elimination day and last for 240 hours (10 days) instead of 168 hours (7 days). (The first elimination WILL reset the vote count)

I have bolded the part that I'm referring to

[Servant Berserker]

actually scratch that this is just him being sarcastic?

>.>

my memory is really not great this game :<

lol

why is that your only response to that whole query?

[Servant Berserker]

yeah that tracks then

[Servant Berserker]

Also, ngl if Ruler had gotten wagoned and run up and claimed their true role, I would've copped to being wrong and have have gone straight to the hammer button on the sheer number of scum sided abilities they had. Glad they didn't.

I don't get how you see that third skill and NP and think that's scumsided tbh

[Servant Berserker]

I'll try to read the game in full this day phase, no promises, but I will say foreigner is probably the person I'm most suspicious of currently
also got a small feeling that beast is town from what I've currently caught up on
not impressed with Caster rn

[Servant Berserker]

At this point the only realistic possibilities I see for scum are Foreigner, Caster, or maybe Rider. Probably autowin, tbh. Boring game.

yeah Foreigner and Caster have been pinging me during my catch-up, Rider too a little but something tells me Rider had a town post in 229

[Servant Berserker]

Ruler seemed like the obvious NK to me

how so?

[Servant Berserker]

friendly neighbor

I have a decent idea of what dictates who can receive the action, but in the interest of keeping up the masquerade I'll spare the details

[Servant Berserker]

why would scum kill Ruler over someone like Archer or AE though, who seemed more in the driver's seat?

[Servant Berserker]

I'm.. not sure why you're questioning me about this? is there something you're trying to get at?

I just really feel like Ruler would have been a lower priority kill over someone like Archer or AE

[Servant Berserker]

based on the flips I have a guess. it doesn't really matter right now though.

pedit: okay. I'm not sure what you are after in asking me about it?

I'm not exactly well versed in what's going on so I thought you could have helped give perspective

[Servant Berserker]

based on the flips I have a guess. it doesn't really matter right now though.

pedit: okay. I'm not sure what you are after in asking me about it?

I'm not exactly well versed in what's going on so I thought you could have helped give perspective

okay, got it.

there's two parts - the first is that it seemed like everyone was basically calling Ruler locktown for mastina following town meta. the second part of my guess is that I

think

scum knowing someone's identity or attributes or some specific other kind of information about the servant helps with the kill or gives some kind of bonus, which is why Cabd revealed the slot's identity as a penalty. maybe part of it is also that scum thought the slot was likely to be unprotected, I don't know.

Spoiler: reaction image

I hadn't entirely considered the idea that the identity being revealed could be a factor

[Servant Berserker]

You're so deep into this fantasy of yours that I don't really think you're worth the effort of salvation.

I find it laughable you think Archer is proposing a fantasy when their view of the game seems very rational and in line with my own thoughts

[Servant Berserker]

I would be happy with an Avenger or Beast flip at this moment in time.

I don’t think either of these flip scum

[Servant Berserker]

I would say my perspective is more emblematic of the general consensus, and I’m also confirmed town, so do you really want to try gaslighting me?

[Servant Berserker]

Would it be a good idea to share my abilities or at least some of the relevant ones @Berserker? @Shielder?

Depends on how relevant they are IMO

[Servant Berserker]

I would say my perspective is more emblematic of the general consensus, and I’m also confirmed town, so do you really want to try gaslighting me?

Why do you think I'm gaslighting you?

What do you mean more emblematic of the general consensus?

If you're trying to say that you are the direct reason we have two flipped scum, I would say no. I would say it was more your predecessor and the actions of other players around you, and that you mostly just inherited the slot because notscience posted on the wrong account. I don't even think you were on the final Saber wagon.

Just because you are in agreement with someone else doesn't mean either of you two are right.

I think you’re gaslighting me because you’re trying to suggest I shouldn’t trust myself. As for being more emblematic, it means our thought processes are shared by even more people than just us, and as such if you want to say we’re wrong you have a lot of people to convince.

I wouldn’t say I directly caused any scum to be eliminated but I took a deliberate course of not using my vote as an influence Day 1 and instead simply speaking my thoughts. I also don’t think your current attitude of trying to besmirch me for not voting out scum is a good look.

[Servant Berserker]

I don't think he's gas lighting you so much as that he's using an ad hominem on you.

That seems to be part of it but I say gaslighting because that’s pretty much the only recourse scum have to work around conftown, is to make them doubt their own thoughts and feelings. Maybe he’s town doing it but the follow-up I just responded to makes that feel less likely

[Servant Berserker]

It's not an ad hominem.

Just stating it how I see it.

You’re literally saying that I wasn’t a factor in the scum flips and that I’m essentially resting on notsci’s laurels. That’s ad hominem.

[Servant Berserker]

or potentially even scum-motivated.

Rider, please, I am begging you.

Please try to scum case me right now.

I would actually love to see how you could try to spin that

I don't think I could even if I wanted to.

And it's why I have you as being misguided rather than scum, and thus have kept you out of my elimination pile.

This feels like a scum post
I feel like bad guys tend to try to use this sort of conciliatory tone when trying to work around people who are clearly town

[Servant Berserker]

At this point I notice I may have misinterpreted Rider’s intent
Rider seems to just be arguing that Avenger can be scum, while I was thinking Rider was trying to propose that Avenger is scum AND Foreigner is town

[Servant Berserker]

Given that, maybe disregard 1803?

[Servant Berserker]

How do you look at how Avenger and Foreigner have played and decide that Foreigner trying to snag free for the Moon flip is okay but Avenger claiming Miller isn’t? There’s probably more to the scenario but I feel like Foreigner has done more actively scummy stuff while Avenger is just an easy target.

[Servant Berserker]

How do you look at how Avenger and Foreigner have played and decide that Foreigner trying to snag cred for the Moon flip is okay but Avenger claiming Miller isn’t? There’s probably more to the scenario but I feel like Foreigner has done more actively scummy stuff while Avenger is just an easy target.

EBWOP

[Servant Berserker]

that thing he said about Saber catching Moon Cancer does seem awful in retrospect.

Him and Saber catching Moon Caster*
FTFY

[Servant Berserker]

No thank you. I don't mind existing in the state of a perennial null read for the time being. Now if only someone could charge my NP up.

You know, if I had known what your actual NP was, instead of how you hinted at it as an "unstoppable cop clear" I think I would have believed it more (although, I understand the hesitancy for claiming it out right on a Day 0)

Not sure I would have preferred giving you the master over Notscience, but I might have asked Berskerer to give you an extra * so that you could neighborize me

So you’re not un-neighborizable?
I recall someone asked that about you before so I figure it’s good to clear it up

[Servant Berserker]

I feel like 'PT Cop' would not be an entirely correct way to describe your role, although it wouldn't necessarily be wrong either. You are after all essentially a cop that can create PT's.

I actually investigate for PT's though.

Assassin’s role would best be described as Loyal Neighborizer (assuming Assassin is town, and the hood is formed with town only)

[Servant Berserker]

Oops lol

[Servant Berserker]

I hope i stop receiving this stupid question bUt bEAsT wAsnT tHE mOsT liKeLy pLyARer tO dIe??? again

I don’t exactly buy that you thought all things were equal between potential kills
There are always fluctuations of thought that would make certain people slightly better or worse kills, and unless you’re extremely new I’d expect you to know that.

[Servant Berserker]

I hope i stop receiving this stupid question bUt bEAsT wAsnT tHE mOsT liKeLy pLyARer tO dIe??? again

I don’t exactly buy that you thought all things were equal between potential kills
There are always fluctuations of thought that would make certain people slightly better or worse kills, and unless you’re extremely new I’d expect you to know that.

Soon i will curse you, get banned and still call it worth it for the way you treat me.

WTF?
I feel like I've been pretty chill, so this lash-out bothers me a bit
what's wrong with how I've treated you?

[Servant Berserker]

If i am forced to do then i will. Don't expect that i will nerf myself, because one person wish for it.

given the fact you're the leading wagon (unless Avenger somehow has more, I haven't explicitly kept count), it's probably advisable for you to do so.

[Servant Berserker]

I can see thinking there's too many possible kills, I just have an issue with how that idea was expressed

[Servant Berserker]

I can see thinking there's too many possible kills, I just have an issue with how that idea was expressed

Do you think having foreigner and avenger full claim minus character/ability name is a good idea?

Or just one/the other?

This would probably be the smart thing, based on how today has gone

I went back through Foreigner's iso and haven't seen anything resembling game solving for today. I also feel very unenthused by the self-vote since Ruler already tried the same stunt on Day 1.

Anyhow, my sleep schedule is in chaos and I need to take a nap before work.

Ruler also had the caveat of being someone who is very volatile when trying to defend townreads and coming up short, which resulted in the self-vote
Foreigner doesn't have any noble intentions behind theirs

[Servant Berserker]

VOTE: Foreigner
I think I want to make this a bit more of a concrete threat

[Servant Berserker]

Why are we doing Avenger over Rider?

[Servant Berserker]

Wait, which of those abilities results in you being a miller?

I second this question

[Servant Berserker]

Okay let’s see if I have this straight. I’m not putting them in any specific order besides what is written, and don’t correct me if they are a different order in actuality.

First ability = miller
Second ability = gladiator with ability to cancel at a cost
Third ability = Informed + always able to post

Do I have these separated correctly?

Honestly I think it could be Avenger atp because I was having concerns D2 regarding Avenger seeming to have too much stuff to his role, and this claim re-incites that concern.

[Servant Berserker]

I will potentially post more later but I will say axe Rider tomorrow if I'm not around, unless something comes up to change things

[Servant Berserker]

Don’t really have the time to, unfortunately
But yeah Alter Ego is like 99% town by play