Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Bingle]

By the way, I asked if unwnd if it was possible for a role to not have SP. They refused to answer, which is equivalent to saying that it's possible.

So...

I have two abilities. One is passive, one is activated. Neither use SP. I explicitly still have SP and it can be stolen from me, but I had to check with unwnd after the first day to confirm this. (I did this when Arte revealed the SP drain ability)

[Bingle]

I do not have SP.

As I said, I had to confirm that I had SP with unwnd, so it is possible Math didn't know.

[Bingle]

By the way, I asked if unwnd if it was possible for a role to not have SP. They refused to answer, which is equivalent to saying that it's possible.

So...

I have two abilities. One is passive, one is activated. Neither use SP. I explicitly still have SP and it can be stolen from me, but I had to check with unwnd after the first day to confirm this. (I did this when Arte revealed the SP drain ability)

Are you a combat class?

Farmer is a field class

I’m a friendly villager. Pretty sure I’m an npc.

[Bingle]

Also having the watcher specifically undated by the universal gating mechanism just seems wrong to me.

[Bingle]

I will be around at deadline, btw.

[Bingle]

I’ve liked ircher more since he voted me. I don’t oppose murderwagon. If ndmathlives the day phase we shouldn’t kill there tonight. I don’t think there’s time in the phase to do anything else.

[Bingle]

I think it’s likely scum has some method of mitigating hp damage because that’s the most obvious route to breaking via massclaim, so I wouldn’t lay those cards on the table. With that said, there are only a few people I’d think of as truly bad shots here. LLD, me, bell, sigmund math is pretty much the list of attacking this is an outright scum claim tonight.

[Bingle]

I think most people are more sure about townreads than scum reads and scum are worried about being outed by shooting someone towny and potentially grouped to make a kill more certain.

[Bingle]

I think if math is scum the noise about shooting math means it’s inarguably better to eliminate there instead of attacking. If math doesn’t die today it’s because we want an additional result, and denying that information by resolving the slot over night is inherently anti town.

Also I’m pretty sure you have other fish you want fried, Titus.

[Bingle]

The point that Anya was a watcher counter (and a powerful one at that) makes me more inclined to believe Math, given a little more thought. I'm fine with leaving that for a tomorrow world. Ffabd is probably right that town shooting early nights is antitown at best (See: every dancegame and hero vig I've ever witnessed), but that's not a fight I'm going to win.

VOTE: MC

[Bingle]

How much time left in the day?

~8 hours, I think.

[Bingle]

I don’t think you guys are scum but I also don't think that my reasons for not scumreading you are strong enough to take you off the table forever.

I am doing my trademark town Bingle second guessing himself into uselessness thing atm, so I'm just gonna stay on MC and hammer if Math hits E-1.

[Bingle]

My last thing was at morph.

MC is saying townies will pierce his body with needles if he lives to night phase.

[Bingle]

God my motivation for this game is so low it hurts. I’ll try to care more tomorrow.

[Bingle]

More specifically:

Why didn't he protect Artemisia who claimed cop

I mean I can't speak for sigmund but ffery and I sat down and shortlisted multiple protect candidates and picked one out of a hat.

I mean, I want all shots at dead people claimed, I think?

BINGLE! Confirmed town powwow, what's the best strategy here? I'm thinking all shots at flipped players get claimed, attacks on still-alive players don't for now?

There’s absolutely no reason not to claim shots at flipped players as town. I’ll have to think about the implications of laying cards on the table for other shots before committing. It’s 330 AM here and I should get some sleep. But I’ll get to this tomorrow for sure after my other obligations. (I have a couple setups to look at and such.) mostly posting this so I can click the link to jump to where I need to start reading.

[Bingle]

One question for now, and answer at your leisure -- we're both shutting down.

What puts Chara outside the 10?

Don’t answer just yet, LLD. I think ambiguity premassclaim is potential utility here. In fact, everyone should avoid mechspeak until we decide on massclaim/no massclaim.

Insomnia is a bitch, so I’m here for a little bit while I wait for the alcohol to make me tired.

Initial thoughts: double tiered massclaim. Initial round being disorganized and simply has attack/does not have attack. This should prevent scum from lying about that as it is incredibly likely there’s some kind of stat cop along the lines of toogs role and that helps us with narrowing down unclaimed shots at obvtown.

Fairly obviously I’m last on coming clean with my role, although I’d be genuinely surprised if cabd hasn’t figured it out and I suspect SS has. Ircher might have hinted at it which would be very +town if he did, and I want his guess specifically before I claim but after the rest of massclaim.

[Bingle]

We still need to sort the top group but I think the bottom is in order. I’m thinking notty/dwlee late, Shea ircher flea ss early. Combination of mech skill and scumminess leading to the earlyness. Fairly confident in the order of the second group.

catboi
Ircher
14. not science
16. Dwlee99
18. Flea the Magician
19. Chara - wherever we put it in the list is where LLD answers why it’s outside of the 10. If the answer is “mechanics” claim happens after LLD.
20. Thestatusquo
22. Farkran
24. Something_Smart


2. Dunnstral - my strongest tokay based tr.
13. WhemeStar - mostly claimed.
10. Bell - Assuming still confident on Bell readability.
5. Lady Lambdadelta - claim largely irrelevant to townread.
8. Sigmund
23. Bingle Last
1. Morph the Cat (fferyllt/Cabd) Not Massclaiming.

[Bingle]

I'm going to be around and such stating the order but yeah it's:

S_S --> Fark --> T3 --> Flea -->Dwlee -->Notsci -->Chara -->Ircher -->Catboi --> Dunn -->Wheme --->Bell-->LLD-->Sigmund-->Bingle--> Morph

Don't need any data other than the name and night damage claims for now, in this round.

I'm fine with this order for both sets of claiming. Don't mind bumping T3 back a bit as necessary either as I don't think T3 is quite as versed in claiming as shea and coming up with a solid fakeclaim on replace in is harder without a truly amazing scumteam behind you, in which case there's probably already a claim waiting for him to use.

[Bingle]

if this is just massclaim day i'm going to check out hard, which is a shame because i was so full of game energy this morning. at least Dwlee is making gut lists. love you Dwlee.

Honestly, I would suggest just ignoring me and morph for the moment. Massclaim is going to be the two of us talking around everyone else anyway, so pushing reads independent of that is actually high town equity.

Also, we're not likely to weigh in on subjective stuff atm, but that's fine because we also don't need to be sorted.

[Bingle]

Dwlee you're up.

[Bingle]

Uh I didn't get damaged Night 2.

Noted.

Notsci, your turn.

[Bingle]

I genuinely don't get why people think maasclaim means they can't do other shit. Can you not walk and talk at the same time?

i'm aware. i'm sure you're also aware that when A Thing is happening conversation tends to be about the thing. i can't singlehandedly make regular thread content happen, and afternoon Chara is far lazier than morning Chara.

pedit: kind of funny notsci had been decreed to go before me. :>

also fuck hold on.

I'd be interested in analysis of catboi/LLD's list/Dwlee's list if you're looking for something to engage with.

[Bingle]

i don't have the energy.

I can't blame you, tbh. Until the morph thing happened I was pretty low on energy for this game myself. I can't really help solve it other than trying to make massclaim take up as little time and be as painless as possible, but I completely get what you're saying here. I still think it needs to happen, though, so I can't really put it aside.

My only real way to try to help though is to ask your opinion on things I think are relevant, because I too have very little control over how much people actually participate.

[Bingle]

Dunn is next.

[Bingle]

That wraps us. I believe just LLD bingle and myself left?

Did we miss anyone?

I claimed 0 attack a while back I think.

[Bingle]

People claiming damage received is fine. People should not claim whether they were targeted for damage that didn't go through.

[Bingle]

I’d be lying if I said I was excited for any read but my own

I'm excited for every read but my own.

[Bingle]

Reread is on my agenda. Just don’t know when I’ll get to it.

Ninja
Morph is literally mod confirmed town.

Technically incorrect. Morph could be a scum bodyguard who submitted both a bodyguard and a nightkill on the claimed town cop in the hope that the mod would mod error and misprocess the action then choose to confirm the bodyguard action as a fix to the gamestate. It sounds like the kind of gambit scum cabd would come up with.

[Bingle]

I am nearly certain at this point that scum have some sort of protective from chip damage they can deploy on their own. Probably not to all of them at once, hence why us splitting shots into the red pool is a best way forward.

I thought it was the Farmer, tbh. That's one of the two big reasons that I didn't want NDMath killed at night.

[Bingle]

Excuse me but I already made this joke.

Repetition is the key to humor.

[Bingle]

Not to mention "binds" doesn't seem to mean anything

Binds was a mastina role thing (although it might be used by more people). It prevents all support actions.

[Bingle]

I mean like you’re welcome to try and make a case on me

You were an SE in my first game on site and I feel bullied that you haven't acknowledged that deep connection we share so you must be scum. Am I doing this right?

[Bingle]

Hot take- if SS is scum it’s a disloyal shot and Fark still is confirmed town

Nah, if SS scum it's most likely a normal neighborize. Even if it were a disloyal neighborize we wouldn't be able to confirm that SS actually did use it on Fark and this isn't a communication via scumchat confirmation of out of game conversation. (also, scum disloyal neighborizor would be insanely powerful for that reason. Time to go design a setup to run in three years when everyone's forgotten this.)

[Bingle]

Like I know this is in jest but that’s cool if true

Yup. Newbie 1422 "I can't believe it's a Scumwin" in 2013. Don't have it bookmarked on this account, but you and ETL were two of the SE's and I've been excited to play pretty much any game with either of you since then. I think it might actually have been the first game you were an SE too.

[Bingle]

I was informed of White Fire's actions immediately as part of my confirmation. Even with recent sloppiness as a consideration, I find it highly unlikely that the mod would change protocol so drastically. This seems like a stalling tactic.

Noraa we were mid massclaim when catboi left could you please claim any actions and role

the mod didn't tell me what my predecessor actions were. Unwnd just quoted the role pm to catboi and told me I was at like 3/5 HP or something. Then I asked if my predecessor had any actions and why my hp wasn't 5 and he didn't reply.
I have like 4 different things .. abilities? that I dont remember. Ig I'll go read the role pm again

Was this ever explained? I kinda feel like Noraa cc'd her own slot here and I'm not sure how to take everyone just ignoring that.

[Bingle]

Oh, no, I wasn't concerned about it as a reading Noraa, thing, I was concerned about it as a reading T3 thing.

Like, Noraa cc'd the post where catboi cc'd T3, and that's interesting to me.

[Bingle]

Bingle reads list, for consideration:

Bingle
Morph
Sig
Dunn
Fark*
Bell**
notty
Dwlee
Irch
-
Chara
Wheme
LLD
T3***
Noraa
S_S****
Flea

* Literally the SS thing. That's why I moved this up.
** I'm sheeping other people on the Bell meta tell. I don't have a townread there based on quality of play and am just assuming that it's reliable. I do think that LLD might be capable of puppeting him into higher activity if she was extraordinarily invested in this game despite the meta, but I don't think she would do so as opposed to just bussing the liability slot.
*** I haven't gone back to check, but I had a vague recollection of T3 as being lurkery as both alignments. I'm assuming you've done the footwork here and am willing to sheep, but don't see this as a particular departure from naughts and crosses (a recent T3 towngame I modded). I think on the merit of play he's still below LLD, but without the faith in meta I think Noraa is slightly more likely to flip scum out of that interaction.
**** SS is definitely canny enough to have played the role I assume he has the way he has. I waffle a little bit on this based on the fact that up until today he's played into the town motivation very well, but I think the "Oh wait I want to reveal my stuff before I die" is particularly performative, especially with the lengths he's gone to to setup the inno after he flips. SS town knows Fark is off the table the moment he flips and Fark is never going to die before him here, so I see this as a purely survivalistic move on his part. Even if I'm wrong and he's town he definitely needs to flip sooner than later.

[Bingle]

Oh, wrt to LLD, the scumread is the back and forth with morph and she still has a free pass to D4 in my book.

[Bingle]

I've got some extremely bad news for you, then.

[Bingle]

Guillo has never been that cutesy

Which game did you read?

Like, nothing against his play, but I don't think cutesy in any way describes it. He was pretty openly antagonistic and confrontational.

[Bingle]

If Lady Lambdadelta goes through her promise of killing the hyper poster, make sure she goes next. There shouldnt be space for game throwers in this game as that is a very bad reason to take out soo eone who is excited about playing the game.

And because im sure im gonna be that hyper poster

Meanwhile we have Anya and G who are good targets

I'm a good

Target?

You are tonally scumming up, this is the same tone you had in our last game when I scum read you and I was right.

I don't wanna deathtunnel, I don't wanna deathtunnel, I don't wanna deathtunnel!

Screw this.

I'm gonna deathtunnel VOTE: Titus

Noraa's scum too, incredible.

Look realtalk. If it's not you, it's gonna be {SS-T3-Noraa-Flea-1 more}

If you're town we really need you to focus on the one more, as you've now essentially accepted 3/4ths of the above list.

The last one is Farkan.

Did you catch the loyal neighborizer claim on Fark from SS?

[Bingle]

oh, hey, I didn't realize I had quotes of G being prickly in my pedit.

[Bingle]

Worth noting that Anya softed JK to me super early too.

[Bingle]

bingleses is going to jail tonight

[Bingle]

Spoiler:

MOD EVENT

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.11

Adventurers

:

Flea the Magician [8]: Dunnstral, White Fire, Guillotina, Sigmund, morph the cat, Bell, Farkran, notscience
Sigmund [7]: Save the Dragons, Flea the Magician, NDMath, MURDERCAT, Bingle, Thestatusquo, Chara
Anya [4]: Ircher, Lady Lambdadelta, Artemiana, Titus
Ircher [2]: WhemeStar, Toogeloo
Lady Lambdadelta [1]: Anya

Not Voting [2]: Not_Mafia, Something_Smart

Please let me know if you see errors and I'll do my utmost to fix

With 23 alive it takes 13 to eliminate. Stratum 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-04 22:25:25).

Votecount 1.12

Adventurers

:

Sigmund [9]: Save the Dragons, Flea the Magician, NDMath, MURDERCAT, Bingle, Thestatusquo, Chara, Artemiana, Guillotina
Anya [9]: Ircher, Lady Lambdadelta, Titus, morph the cat, Bell, Sigmund, Dunnstral, WhemeStar, notscience
Flea the Magician [2]: White Fire, Farkran,
Lady Lambdadelta [1]: Anya


Not Voting [2]: Not_Mafia, Something_Smart, Toogeloo

With 23 alive it takes 13 to eliminate. Stratum 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-04 22:25:25).

Votecount 1.13

Adventurers

:

Anya [12]: Ircher, Lady Lambdadelta, Titus, morph the cat, Bell, Sigmund, Dunnstral, notscience, Something_Smart, Artemiana, Bingle, Whemestar

[E-1!]

Sigmund [5]: Save the Dragons, Flea the Magician, NDMath, MURDERCAT, Thestatusquo
Flea the Magician [4]: White Fire, Farkran, Chara, Guillotina
Lady Lambdadelta [1]: Anya

With 23 alive it takes 13 to eliminate. Stratum 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-04 22:25:25).

Not Voting [1]: Not_Mafia, Toogeloo

Final Votecount 1.14

Adventurers

:

Anya [13]: Ircher, Lady Lambdadelta, Titus, Bell, Sigmund, Dunnstral, notscience, Something_Smart, Artemiana, Bingle, Whemestar, Flea The Magician, Toogeloo

[Hammer!]

Sigmund [5]: Save the Dragons, Flea the Magician, NDMath, MURDERCAT, Thestatusquo
Flea the Magician [4]: White Fire, Farkran, Chara, Guillotina
Lady Lambdadelta [1]: Anya

Not Voting [1]: Not_Mafia, morph the cat

I think, based solely off of this and Noraa's defense today, that Flea is important to the scum team if faer scum, so I think that's probably first imo. I'd also be down to flip SS first as that has the most impactful townflip.

[Bingle]

Goddammit, bork broke my spoiler.

[Bingle]

Except my teacher is mean enough to give all odd numbers so I dont get the luxury of doing that.

Typically, it's the odd ones that have the solutions, at least in my experience.

Im not sure actually. lemme check

I would hope that all of the problems in your math textbook have solutions.

[Bingle]

I think the joke went over your head. I was saying that they should actually be solvable problems. I'm aware that math books usually have a solutions appendix.

Also, I'm not that old Noraa. Just because I like to shout at people to get off my lawn and can't remember what I ate for dinner, doesn't mean I'm ancient.

[Bingle]

someone just change GET OFF MY LAWN to STOP SCUMREADING ME
and its bonappletea bootiful

If I weren't bald, male and 28 it'd be like looking in a mirror.

[Bingle]

NO ONE ELSE VOTE NOTSCI.

LLD's point about you and me holding the hammer and E-1 on the lim is prudent, regardless of her alignment. Our wagon placement is largely irrelevant for analytical purposes.

I'm not sure how I feel about 2 RB claims, one of which also claims to have been RB'd and a jailkeeper soft from non jailkeeper flipped scum, but it does feel significant.

[Bingle]

I have been super important this game and you couldn’t have done anything without me.

[Bingle]

Double checking NA leashes before committing, but yeah they e-1 is in the next ten minutes.

[Bingle]

Right vig ss cause that’s the most information if wrong.

Chip vfp.

Chara is the least solid yellow imo.

VOTE: gamma

See you in the dead thread, cabdyllt.

[Bingle]

Has someone put together a list of role claims?

[Bingle]

The scum team has kept you around just for this reason.

Because even when a game looks won I want to mechanically squeeze every last ounce of EV out of the setup? I thought it was because I was being ineffective as shit and no one was listening to me along with all of the softing about how difficult I am to kill.

[Bingle]

Wait, is there seriously a train of thought where Smart isn't the lim today? Cause, nah, smart dies today.

[Bingle]

Alive tonight in personal reads order:

Bingle (Town unless impressive levels of bastardry)
Farkran (Town unless active gamethrowing)

notscience (Unclaimed?)
Bell (Reverse FV)
Dunnstral (RB except for innate attack) (Does this work on Factional kill and can you use it tonight?)
Sigmund (Doctor? Needs to be fullclaimed still I think)
Ircher (Vig + Damage soak)
WhemeStar (Flavor thingy)
Chara (Needs to be limmed, not chip damaged)

If Dunn block stops a NK, we can use him as an investigation. Preferably on someone who has a visible effect to their power (Wheme?). Probably flipping Irch tonight as the lowest person who can be flipped at night. Still need notty and Sigmund claims, I think.

[Bingle]

Sigmund claimed Doc, not any additional actions he may have. I looked through his ISO for it.

[Bingle]

I'm assuming that's confirmation that the self heal based on being voted is your only ability, btw.

[Bingle]

I'm a medic

my normal ability is to heal people who are missing HP.

I have SP abilities that allow me to make someone ascetic and prevent someone from dying on a given night.

Yeah, here. There's nothing about sp costs or what he's actually done later afaict.

[Bingle]

Dancing around mine at this point is probably a waste of time. I don't have HP. They have to NK me.

[Bingle]

I believe it's just, Chara on Ircher, everyone stacking on Chara, right?

I would imagine that should end it.

This is plan. If Chara flips town and I'm dead, someone should look into whose flavor matches healing it, because none of the claims or flips account for that afaict.

[Bingle]

VOTE: S_S

[Bingle]

It's over yeah

Never stop hoping. There's always the chance that every living town player gets modkilled before unwnd ends the game.

[Bingle]

Thanks for the game, unwnd. Despite the issues I had fun and was glad I played. I’m sorry that the game fell apart so much, I know how rough that can be when you obviously put a ton into it.

[Bingle]

oh and, apologies to morph. i was completely in the wrong in that interaction re: LLD.

You weren't.

LLD weaponizes her real emotions. You wanting to defend someone you saw as hurting is not something you ever have to apologize for. You can own being wrong, but don't apologize for being nice.

[Bingle]

Well, for one, Toogeloo didn't accurately paraphrase, so there's that.

Not saying that Toog should've been modkilled, but accuracy of the quote isn't really an issue. The appearance of quoting mod communications is just as bad as actually quoting mod communications, rightfully so, because mod confirmation via lack of action is an abusable concept.

Toog's was likely accepted because the formatting for it didn't resemble a role PM as much.


This whole discussion is why I use specifically relaxed quoting rules and try to provide complete information about role PMs/the ability to have a mod generated claim of whatever role they desire for my scumteams, FWIW, although I'm aware that mine is also not a perfect solution.

[Bingle]

^

[Bingle]

FWIW, I definitely think that conversation is one worth having, having seen this kind of situation come up twice very recently. (Here, and in yes's Lovers and Losers which thankfully only resulted in a reroll as an Open.)