Happy Face Mafia (Game Over)

[jjh927]

VOTE: Raya36

[jjh927]

Okay there's some content now, cool

[jjh927]

Apologies as I've only been skimming thus far- I'll give this game a proper read and put some reads out today

[jjh927]

Ooh, I seem to have come in at the same time as some reads

Scumreading me at this stage is pretty valid considering I prompted myself to post and then didn't

What's up with the Bell scumread?

[jjh927]

I thought that was a towny post, personally, but looking at Bell's iso there's not a lot else so I think what I saw while skimming might not have been a representative sample

I don't think there's any issue with not having proper scumreads this many pages into the game

[jjh927]

That might be a playstyle difference

[jjh927]

More people are town than scum

It is far easier to townhunt in the first part of day 1 than it is to actually expect to find scum, then look for scum in the people you have not got in the town pile

Like, you're in my locktown pile already

[jjh927]

More people are town than scum

It is far easier to townhunt in the first part of day 1 than it is to actually expect to find scum, then look for scum in the people you have not got in the town pile

Like, you're in my locktown pile already

what for?

Partly this conversation here, partly good timing in putting me in your scumreads just as I was holding myself to account for my failure to post, and partly that you're challenging the VFP wagon

[jjh927]

Aside from you being locktown
Bear hydra is locktown
Enchant is town
Bamboozle is town
VFP is town
Bell is town
Wheme looks town
Titus looked town but I'm not sure I can read Titus


Raya is a scumlean, as is samantha, and I'm torn on Retti

[jjh927]

Thank you for making me post now because I was telling myself I was gonna post in like 12 hours when I'd woken up more and when I tell myself that it's usually a lie

[jjh927]

Raya's approach to sam just looked really strange, and I feel conflicted on Retti because I've liked the posts but they don't quite radiate town

[jjh927]

Thank you for making me post now because I was telling myself I was gonna post in like 12 hours when I'd woken up more and when I tell myself that it's usually a lie

why do you usually not post?

Because it takes me effort to engage in the game

Once I'm engaged it's a lot easier though

[jjh927]

Also depends on whether I'm playing lazy or actively
Probably will be the latter following this conversation

[jjh927]

I didn't really say anything before this at all if that makes sense

[jjh927]

I also don't recall VFP being a wagon when I checked in on Sunday morning

[jjh927]

Bell's last post looked really bad

Does Bell have any inactive town games or is relative inactivity actually a scumtell? I'd be somewhat happy to vote there if so, and I have mixed feelings about the counterwagon forming on Raya.

[jjh927]

I think it's worth waiting for clarification on the claim before talking about multiball or even taking it seriously

On another note, I'm back to being happy with Raya votes. This can be another piece of evidence in favour of my lazy playstyle guiding the elim onto scum with minimal effort

[jjh927]

lol I was literally right about to talk more crap about how a role called seer could exist and then I noticed Bamboozle requesting that people do not talk about that

[jjh927]

I also need to get into this properly, since it is now day 2

Is anyone around to talk?

[jjh927]

Do you want to discuss Titus or Raya? I want to leave things to discuss with the other people in the game too

I believe one is scum and one is town

[jjh927]

Hmm fine but I thought most would probably have an opinion on at least one of those players and I was hoping this could be more real time

[jjh927]

Do you guys think the top 2 wagons day 1 are both scum?

I also dont think titus is scum here

I don't think Titus is scum either

Raya is. I think it was all town on the Raya wagon, so scum could have tried to move pressure away from the Bell wagon and they didn't

[jjh927]

Esoaa has been locktown for a long time but I don't remember a particular case

Please elaborate

[jjh927]

I recall questioning why Esoaa scumread Bell and having a brief conversation about it

[jjh927]

I think there was an awful lot of activity based stuff in there and the case being correct doesn't necessarily make it excellent

[jjh927]

Which of the three of you am I speaking to right now?

[jjh927]

I mean, you don't actually need to disprove meta arguments because they are inherently flawed

[jjh927]

Is it possible for circumstances unrelated to alignment to affect someone's activity level? Yep
Did I get elimed the first time I played an inactive towngame? You bet I did

Meta can be a hindrance when you're locked into that kind of thinking rather than thinking about the possibility of a first time for something- like someone breaking out of their scumrange. Activity levels will not be a consistent meta tell over someone's future play. Oh, and I like to believe that replacing out really is NAI because people who are more inclined to replace out as scum should not be playing this game.

Ultimately it doesn't matter because Robert looks pretty damn scummy with hindsight, although I'm afraid hindsight is all I can give you since I wasn't around after the gladiate.

[jjh927]

While technically I started the Raya wagon, that was my standard lazy play and you might note that the vote was cast a long long time ago and just stuck alongside my suspicions of Raya

[jjh927]

Willow's reads feel pretty out there to me, which I'm taking as a sign that Willow is town

Scum are more inclined to come out with reads that are similar to what other people in the game are putting out


On the same note, I think I can see T3 scum but will have to iso properly

Titus is just town fwiw

[jjh927]

Willow's reads feel pretty out there to me, which I'm taking as a sign that Willow is town

which

Doesn't seem like a readslist made to appease at all; in other words it is sincere

Most of it is null or leans
The list has Esooa, who I feel is generally a consensus hard town as only a townlean, and I don't think there's a lot of attention on VFP right now

[jjh927]

That most of it is null or leans even on slots where there's a consensus

[jjh927]

There aren't any extras sneaking in that Willow hasn't been focusing on just for the sake of agreeing with town

[jjh927]

I mean, that's from quite a long while ago now but the deal with my readslists is that you can ask me about specific reads rather than me just dumping a load of information in the open when I make a readslist, since that gives me some information too

[jjh927]

I mean, it could, sure

I just don't think it looks like that

[jjh927]

I just got a prod

Apologies for my low activity as of late- it has been a busy weekend

[jjh927]

Titus is just town fwiw

Why is Titus town?

I'm not agreeing with a number of the things she is saying, but there are other things where she absolutely makes sense, and I feel like she's always saying things that make sense from what I know of her thought process. This appears to be Titus' real outlook on the game, as opposed to her scumgame. I somewhat expect her to have a few things that I completely disagree with, but she's a lot easier for me to place now I think I know roughly how she thinks.

There might conceivably be some minor recent differences in meta that I'm tuned in on that other people who are scumreading her are not? Might be worth checking up on the team mafia game she was in, as I think this is extremely similar play.

[jjh927]

Raya and Andante have both moved into my town pile

[jjh927]

I'll elaborate on Titus a bit then, hang on

[jjh927]

VC 1.3

VFP (6): Retti, Romance, Bear HUGS, samantha97, Enchant, willow1
Enchant (3): Dunnstral, Bamboozle, WhemeStar
samantha97 (3): Raya36, VFP, T3
Dunnstral (1): Titus
Raya36(1): jjh927
Romance (1): Bell
Bamboozle(1): Flea The Magician

Not Voting (2): PenguinPower, Hubble Bubble,

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

VC 1.4

VFP (6): Retti, Romance, Bear HUGS, samantha97, Enchant, willow1
samantha97 (2): Raya36, VFP,
Enchant (2): Dunnstral, PenguinPower
Bamboozle(2): Flea The Magician, WhemeStar
Bell (2): Esooa, Bamboozle
Dunnstral (1): Titus
Raya36 (1): jjh927
Romance (1): Bell
WhemeStar (1): T3


Not Voting (0):

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Bamboozle, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS
samantha97 (3): Raya36, VFP, Romance
Dunnstral (2): Titus, T3
Bamboozle(2): Flea The Magician, WhemeStar
Enchant (1): Dunnstral
FP (1): willow1
Raya36 (1): jjh927
Romance (1): Bell
PenguinPower (1): samantha97

Not Voting (1): Retti

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

VC 1.5

Bell (5): Esooa, Enchant, PenguinPower, Bear HUGS, Raya36
Raya36 (4): jjh927, Titus, Retti, Bamboozle
samantha97 (3): VFP, Romance, willow1
Romance (2): Bell, WhemeStar
Retti (1): Flea The Magician,
Titus (1): T3
Enchant (1): Dunnstral

Not Voting (1): samantha97

Deadline is in (expired on 2021-04-27 00:50:57)

With 18 players alive, it takes 10 to fade away

Given Retti and Bamboozle are town, scum were not trying to save Raya but merely gave up here. They went from not caring who was eliminated to resignation.

This points to PP scum as I TR everyone else on the Bell wagon.

PP Dunn T3 is my new answer.

[jjh927]

if anything the votes point to vfp being mafia if penguin were mafia

immediately before the bell votes vfp was at 6

So you're suggesting scum bussed Bell over VFP. It's a valid theory but I disagree.

I townread all the names on the VFP wagon. That's a sign you're correct. Yet no scumreads jumped on the wagon. I would expect some scum to jump on a scum wagon. If we do postulate VFP scum, then he must be either a higher PR role or more likely to go deep. This is where tin foil Retti scum goes.

Given the wagon participation rate (most sitting alone), I would feel that they generally ignored wagons on town and rushed to get on scum wagons. This is why PP's empty ISO is key. He was around but chose to vote Bell and not VFP. The VFP wagon was meant to hang around like DGB and LLD wagons did in the large normal.

Tldr, I think your read is townie but incorrect with a possibility that I am wrong.

Can we just vote where we agree though?

VOTE: PP

Raya is. I think it was all town on the Raya wagon, so scum could have tried to move pressure away from the Bell wagon and they didn't

Counterpoint, as much as Raya is my backup.

They may not have had time to do so given the gladiate.

Do you have a reason for T3 scum that is not related to him voting you?

His unreasoned defense of lurky players, his utter lack of scumhunting (no discussion of anyone but me) and his chainsaw on behalf of Dunn.

[jjh927]

That's probably enough posts

Titus is looking to try and push wagons on people she thinks are scum, especially when people are voting for people she does not think are scum
She is engaging with people to the end of convincing them of her viewpoint

This is Titus' towngame

[jjh927]

So where do you think scum are voting in vote count 1.5 above?

That's quite open tbh and not my preferred kind of spec

That Bell wagon looks like all town there

The Samantha wagon includes VFP
Dunnstral wagon includes T3
Bamboozle wagon has Flea

and then there's all the vanity wagons at that point

If I had to pick from the actual wagons, I think the order listed (VFP, T3, Flea) is order of likelihood of being scum, with the unmentioned players on those wagons (now mentioned as Raya, Titus, and Wheme) being town. I don't think there's a lot we can get from these wagon comps at this stage

[jjh927]

Willow, check out Titus' iso from the large normal in team mafia, or look at her in pokemon battles

I think Titus looks a bit different in recent months

I also think people who would otherwise be able to read her have recently ended up scumreading her incorrectly as a result of this- see myself in pokemon battles or mastina in the large normal

[jjh927]

Samantha, sorry I keep ignoring your request to give 2 scumcases but that's gonna be some effort and I need to get my reads in order again

If you want a scumcase at all or more than 1 confident scum I need to engage and stop being lazy, which was actually my plan for this day phase and hopefully there is still time

[jjh927]

Dunn probably isn't town. He's been deflecting rather than sorting and that's only after being wagoned.

Dunn T3 PPP Raya.

you know... I did sr dunn earlier... just saw a fun picture and went "pretty picture!!!" Honestly, of your list... I haven't read T3, Penguin has nothing, and I haven't looked at raya too much...


Retti are you dueling someone again?

according to the wiki
> It is almost always one-shot.
and if people are talking about you having an extra shot, you claimed that yesterday, so why did scum leave you alive?

Gladiates in themselves are generally not a pro-town power

See: this situation right now

[jjh927]

Everything Titus just said

[jjh927]

This is a pretty messy situation tbh where optimal play now is unclear
While the traditional play would be to elim Titus here anyway, I don't think I need that flip for my read confidence so my initial tendency is towards not voting

I'd like to think that the gamestate is better with Titus alive than not, but that really depends on other people- particularly those who will live to later in the game

[jjh927]

well if titus was off the table and retti theoretically never used gladiate, who would you want to lynch today?

I'd probably go along with people running up Dunn, see what he looked like when the pressure piled on, and either go with that or try to pivot over to T3

[jjh927]

Well that was quite a start to the day

I'm a little concerned about Retti's itchy trigger finger as the guilty could technically still be some form of gambit but it doesn't look gambity and I think andante is probably just guiltied scum

[jjh927]

VOTE: Andante

[jjh927]

Damn, I think that makes me the objectively correct elim for today

I'm neg utility- if I die in an odd phase then flips will only be alignment and not role after that point. This is an even phase so we're good

VOTE: jjh927

[jjh927]

If you're absolutely sure you're the optimal elim here then sure but I'm a little concerned that this will lead to me being elimed on an odd phase

[jjh927]

I have a guilty on jjh.

I'm struggling to see how that could be the case

[jjh927]

I have a guilty on jjh.

I'm struggling to see how that could be the case

Well then what do you claim?

On odd phases, if I die then future flips will be alignment only and will not include role.
During odd nights I can target a player and I find out what negative effects have been caused by them wearing a mask. I can't find out what the drawback is before someone has worn a mask though, only find out retroactively. This has been relatively useless as I targeted Whemestar in N1 and T3 in N3 and got nothing both times. In the first case, I thought Whemestar would be one of the most likely players in the game to use a mask in N1. In the second case, T3 had claimed a mask and I assumed it was gonna get used here.

In even nights I can stop someone from wearing a mask, effectively roleblocking a mask ability (but only a mask ability). I targeted Dunnstral in N2.

I can put on a mask to swap these round but I haven't done that

[jjh927]

No idea what role could generate a false guilty on me here, but there's a lot indicating it's not a fake one so it must simply be false

[jjh927]

I do think it's better to elim me first simply because it stops this neg utility from firing off

Honestly I was planning on going fully active in day 2 because I was gonna try and get myself NKed but stage 1 of that plan just didn't happen

[jjh927]

People seem to have talked a lot about what I want and what I know

I would like it on record that:
My proposed elim order here is myself first, then Samantha, then Titus. This isn't the best in terms of town deaths, but it'll do.
I have seen all of the high rise invasion anime, which is pretty good overall but I don't think it had any particularly spectacular individual scenes that stood out.

[jjh927]

I think I'm E-1

[jjh927]

[jjh927]

You know I have 3 guilties on me and just got hammered right

[jjh927]

But anyway, I'm actually town even though 3 separate people have guiltied me

[jjh927]

In order:
Titus is scum
I am guessing that T3 is a tracker who has made a questionable assumption about me targeting him
Retti's gambit isn't actually a guilty because the actual scum is someone else within the mask claims. I trueclaimed

[jjh927]

No, you need to elim Sam even though she is town

[jjh927]

It's the only way to stop the killing

[jjh927]

Don't cry when it's hilarious

[jjh927]

Honestly I can't even be mad at this level of happenstance

[jjh927]

I can think of at least 4 reasons why there would be a ninja checker

[jjh927]

1. Scum might have a ninja
2. Town might have a ninja, leading to an interesting scenario depending on how a positive result would play out
3. Mod wifom. There is no ninja. However, a ninja checker could rule out specific players being ninjas and therefore make tracker innos more reliable.
4. A role in the game might have a mask that when worn secretly gives them the ninja modifier.

[jjh927]

Oh, for some pretty much meaningless clarification, I actually fully understood Sam's role when it was claimed the first time and I claimed my neg utility. No additional information was gleaned from the clarification and I was still pretty sure eliming me was correct given the circumstances

[jjh927]

That sounds like you might be setting up for excusing yourself when I flip town