Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Bell]

Is there anything I should concentrate on with my read of the game? Anything I should look at in particular?

Mastina's posts and how people reacted to her.

[Bell]

(As a reminder: for the rest of the month I am V/LA every Friday/Saturday. In this case, I've still got ~10 hours of work that has piled up since Friday that I've been unable to finish and my intention is to get into the mafia games I wasn't already playing once I get through that circa 10 hours, which should be either Sunday or Monday, so in effect, I am V/LA until Monday.)

we don't care

Greetings, Gentlebeings!

VOTE: Spiffeh

Hi!

Town.

I'm so excited to not care what any of you think about me

Town?

Will be back in like 5+ hours please don’t spam the thread people.

Scum?

VOTE: Prism

VOTE: spiffeh

Scum.

page count limit is a genius move, but I don't really share the level of concern from Mathblade - 85 pages is MORE than enough for Day 1 in any game. also what is post 8?

Battle Mage.



VOTE: SirCakez

Hi Mastina

why haven't you called me scum yet?

I think Prism is scum btw

Town. <3

I have a question. Anyone have any idea how we bronze scum? If artifacts are good to pass to town, then what's stopping scum from just bronzing whoever gets the artifact and we get screwed?

Town?

Math are you also scum lol

LLD's probably gonna be furious when she sees I agree with at least two of her initial scumreads.

This seems like a good time for a readslist!

Lady Lambdadelta
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
PookyTheMagicalBear
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
Bell

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage
borkjerfkin
GreyICE
quiet

Dunnstral

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Locktown, lean town, null, nullscum, lean scum, scumread.

Math, Mastina, Cakez.
Titus.
Bork, Kittens,
Tammy. Quest
Paranoia read: Prism.
GrayIce, Pooky.
Dunstrall
Sangres, Spiffeh, BM, LLD, Bell.

Good night.

I think Spiffeh town BM scum Prism null LLD scum lean Cakez is prob town but scum in a very minor circumstance so not considering it. If I am right then Titus is town by proxy.

Scummy reads

Scratch the scunread, Dunn's town.

quiet is aggressively ambivalent (which is to say, one post rapidly swaying from definitely-scum and definitely-town, hard to lock down as one of those and not the other).

Got exactly one thing that I don't expect to have, yes, although no indication where I got it from. Are you the character pictured w/ that item if I look it up on the wiki? If so it's adorable you picked me considering my own flavor

Town.

Lady Lambdadelta
Dunnstral
Bell
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
PookyTheMagicalBear
borkjerfkin
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage
GreyICE
quiet


MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Locktown townread null scumread scum.

Really? 152 made me go from nullscum to locktown?

This seems like a good time for a readslist!

Lady Lambdadelta
Kitty Trauma Team (hydra of Malakittens and kuribo)
PookyTheMagicalBear
sangres (hydra of fferyllt and Nachomamma8)
Tammy
Bell

Titus
Spiffeh

Battle Mage
borkjerfkin
GreyICE
quiet

Dunnstral

MathBlade

Prism
SirCakez

Locktown, lean town, null, nullscum, lean scum, scumread.

am i being set up wtf

It’s just weird Mastina and LLD (whose clearly NOT a mason ) agree on reads.

And the reads are garbage.

Cakez townslipped after I scumread him
Prism is probably scum but that’s either having to put a scumread there or buddying my scumread there
Literally no one agrees with my prism read. They think I am ridiculous.

So I find it weird Mastina’s reads match mine about almost midpoint through the morning but yet I am scum.

That doesn’t sit right.

Really? 152 made me go from nullscum to locktown?

152 was also my first post of the game, by the way

Really? 152 made me go from nullscum to locktown?

152 was also my first post of the game, by the way

Hey Dunn, I think we’re both being set up here.

Can you do a read wall and I just vote the person lowest on your wall I agree with?

Kinda thinking Mastina Titus?

Just gonna reset all my reads

i'm townreading too many people

Honestly this is a game going to be won by townreads and mutual townblocs being formed, so this is not a problem.

I find Pooky's reaction anti-associative.
I find Mathblade and Dunnstrall's responses less clear. As being distancing/cribbing off of Pooky's paranoia.
I immediately posted a similar reads list to Mastina right after she did because I wanted to push her down.

[Bell]

I don't really think VCA works because I haven't seen a single piece of consistent evidence that it does. I can't find a research paper on it. I can't find a statistical analysis on it. I cannot find a statistically significant finding about it.

So.

On further looking, while I think it's possible Pooky tried to save Mastina through pushing a Sircakez miselim. I actually find Pooky pretty townie overall It's not a town bin. But I have some trouble imagining Pooky responding to Mastina the way he did out the gate. He's usually more tolerant of his scum partners out the gate? Maybe?

*holds up microphone to Pookythemagicalbear* Could you comment on your initial reaction to Mastina and self-meta dazzle me with why you can't possibly be scum this game because of X, Y, and Z?

Pedit: My read on Tammy is that she's spiky and that I don't wish to be hurt.

[Bell]

Outside of the mason claim, is anyone townreading LLD?

It’s all related to the mason claim and her behavior and timing surrounding it. I think her claim has legitimacy in part because she claimed early, it was unlikely to be a fake claim provided by cabd or penguin and it was proactively done. Eye brows are going to be raised if she lives much longer.

I don’t think this is a productive avenue for exploration.
In your previous experience with lld fake claiming mason, did they do it so early?

[Bell]

She claimed mason day two. Not before the day even started.

VOTE: Mathblade

[Bell]

I’m talking about in the game she linked.

[Bell]

Oh, obviously it has nothing to do with that conversation. I just carry on more than one conversation at a time.

As for why I’m voting you and why I switched back to you. Well, it’s because I’m scum obviously.

For real though. Every time you say fuck it and vote somebody it gets automatically red flagged in my brain

[Bell]

Because pattern recognition. I’m not a psychologist.

[Bell]

Because pattern recognition. I’m not a psychologist.

That is indeed where you read I said fuck it.

You’re not explaining why that makes you vote me.

Look math. I think you’re scum and I think it everyday and I think it every time you vote and say fuck it when you do. I’m never ever changing my mind about this. You are scum. You have a role PM that is red.
Unless a cop comes in and says I’m wrong I am never going to stop thinking you’re scum.

Capisce?

[Bell]

VOTE: DGB

Sure.

[Bell]

It's unfortunate, but I will say nothing more about it. Keep voting me.

I don’t get why you would say for prism to keep voting you.

[Bell]

It's unfortunate, but I will say nothing more about it. Keep voting me.

I don’t get why you would say for prism to keep voting you.

Resignation.

Poptart rainbow kitty is never supposed to be resigned!
Also, I don’t understand.
Mostly I’m scum reading you because I think your initial response to Titus was pretty emotional manipulative.
I’m not sure you’d assign blame to someone non-tactically.
Rather it felt like it was a tactical choice more than because they were your real feelings.

So, I’ll just proceed I suppose!

[Bell]

I think your initial response to Titus was pretty emotional manipulative.

how

Did I figure out you were scum from a single post?
I’m talented what can I say.

[Bell]

Can we not wait until the last minute to eliminate someone this time?

[Bell]

I’m around and yes. I will hate anything but a math blade wagon tbh.
But I will tolerate a dgb, sircakez, or Bork wagon.

I will only vote Titus ironically.

[Bell]

I like how mathblade discounts the fairy boonskies game where I was hyper focused on him and cakez to the point Titus told me in no uncertain terms that I needed to shut up and vote someone else.

[Bell]

When I say that I will vote Titus ironically I mean that I will vote Titus since everybody else seems to want to and has found one excuse or other to do so and unlike other wagons here is quick to rise. I could see me getting fed up enough not getting a math wagon that I’ll just spite vote. Which will be neither productive nor helpful toward my goals. But that’s life.

@mathblade: if I was playing like a 3p then why would I be pushing for your elimination out in the thread? Don’t answer that.

[Bell]

Hey Wall Street ended. I’d like grayice to explain why he voted and then moved his vote off of mathblade now.

[Bell]

And why pooky isn’t wagoning the fuck out of math blade.

[Bell]

I don't follow your logic at all right now Bell

if you have a good case on MB I am happy to read it.

Meh, I already explained that math blade was defending mastina while ostensibly voting her and kept pushing other wagons when it mattered.

[Bell]

I’ve taken your posts in context In this game fmpov MBz

1. When MB died in wall street Grayice made a speech about this not being MB’s town game then voted him. He later moved off.
2. I pooky@just wanted to see how you’d react. I honestly don’t really have the time to follow games in depth due to work.

[Bell]

*clarification. I have enough time to read this game in depth* but not others. (Relatively speaking).

[Bell]

Whoops I mixed up games my bad. I retract everything I just said and keep the question for grayice to explain within this game’s context if he can when he has time.

[Bell]

Whoops I mixed up games my bad. I retract everything I just said and keep the question for grayice to explain within this game’s context if he can when he has time.

What game did you mean then?

Is like nobody going to note how Bell seems to be inventing reasons to scumread me?

Like I get wanting your question answered but like can you all explain how you’re townreading Bell when this is like the 7th (hyperbole) time I have asked him to expand why and he either can’t or it’s factually incorrect?

I am having a hard time seeing how people are townreading Bell. Would love an explanation.

1. I can't answer this.
2. See section 1 of my first wall against you.
3. This is like your 15th attempt to appeal to fairness. Most everyone in this game is going to answer with. Meta (Bell sucks as scum), Bell appears to believe what he's saying regardless of the accuracy. Or "how does that make him scum?"
4. I guess all the players in this game are my scum partners?

[Bell]

Have a good Birthday weekend!

I'm not sure how I feel about DGB the more I think about their position the more question marks I have.

Obviously they did something to Prism.
But DGB is neglecting relationships outside of that point of leverage. Trying to gain Prism's trust essentially. They're awesome at fake claiming. But from my position sitting here as an ignorant townie. This kind of feels like it's amateurish?
Sort of like a scum fruit vendor claim hoping to pocket one person and when they get voted not realizing that the the reaction of an actual town fruit vendor is not confusion but omgus. They're lightly implying Prism sucs but saying it in the gentlest way possible through the angle of "I don't know what Prism is doing" when, like, fmpov Prism just isn't town binning you for an ambiguous night action.

[Bell]

I also think a prism visit is a smarter visit for scum than LLD. Because LLD could have been watched and who knows how Spiffy would have reacted. But I'm making a lot of leaps in logic when the information is unclear and I'm bad with claims on a good day.

[Bell]

I hate posts about hating posts because they’re so airy and it does nothing.
It’s not even accurate in this case.
So I can only think you either aren’t reading or you’re being a poser.

[Bell]

Prism hammer me so that I can sign up or replace in another game and fuck it up too.

You can't be serious.

[Bell]

DGB lost me. I don't understand what is going on here at all. You've been playing Mafia for over a decade and you're still making posts like that? It has to be a joke. Or an act. How can you have played and experienced so much and then make a post like that?
it's not a good scum post, it's not a good town post.
What am I seeing?

[Bell]

DGB lost me. I don't understand what is going on here at all. You've been playing Mafia for over a decade and you're still making posts like that? It has to be a joke. Or an act. How can you have played and experienced so much and then make a post like that?
it's not a good scum post, it's not a good town post.
What am I seeing?

LOL

I make posts like that VERY PREDICTABLY

Please elaborate so I can understand where you're coming from and why you are town this game.

UNVOTE:

[Bell]

I'm happy to do a Bork Lim.

[Bell]

IDK why you're being so hard on yourself right now when it's literally just our fault if you're town lol

Game after game of fucking up PRs and hard townreading all the scum does that.

Okay, so you're on a losing streak. Don't people usually just reevaluate how they've hunted and figure out a method or something else they can do to to achieve a town win condition.

[Bell]

I don't get it, you seem to have some background/knowledge in psychology so cognitive behavioral therapy, tying up your self-esteem to games seems like a a self-correction you'd have long done by now.

[Bell]

I feel like DGB is very much applying a double standard to Spiffeh and I.

I'm basically saying I wouldn't expect DGB to do this while trying to reconcile.
While spiffeh is doing the same thing but he's using a shiv.

[Bell]

Pretty much, for somebody that wants to die they're giving Spiffeh a lot of shit.

[Bell]

This is a tactical demand for a reset. Using AtE.
I don't think the emotions are real.

VOTE: DGB

I apologize if wrong DGB as I am essentially denying your feelings by saying I don't believe them. I'm not sure how to say this in a less insensitive way.

[Bell]

Pretty much, for somebody that wants to die they're giving Spiffeh a lot of shit.

How are these two things incompatible?

You're right, people aren't so simplistic. We can both catastrophize and present a sense of low self-esteem, while simultaneously protecting our ego and attacking someone else for unrepentantly pushing their elimination.

This is hard. /:

[Bell]

That sucked.

VOTE: Prism

Even after thinking about it, my reads haven't changed much. here's an inclination to look more closely at Titus, but honestly I don't see anything more problematic than what was already problematic there.

Also happy birthday Titus.

[Bell]

The other mason outting today would be a bad idea

I agree.

[Bell]

Even if you were, I doubt I would have changed my mind. That was a Tenet level fuck up.

[Bell]

Who other than you have Prism in their PoE?

DGB was wagoned yesterday for a variety of reasons. I listed both of mine.

[Bell]

I mean I'll take it but I'm surprised to get not 1 but 3 immediate votes. Did powereliminating the bodyguard just not move the needle at all? How strongly were Pooky/Titus townreading me anyway?

Like I'm just surprised no one so far has considered Bell instead

You're more deliberative than I am is my guess.
Also, while I'm obvious town to a subset of players, there are players here that don't think that.

[Bell]

I mean I basically forced it citing how ugly the Titus wagon was, openly did not care that they softed doctor to me, so like ??? I am as puzzled as to why I am getting immediate votes as you are.

I was pretty determined to force it as no other vote really felt right to me, didn't like quiet slot, and thought DGB's reads/responses were coming way too easily to be natural (and oh god am I sorry DGB it is still not your fault, rest easy child). I also just straight up didn't think doctor fit with selfprotecting mason...and I didn't think bulletproof bodyguard made much sense either but obviously ~I was wrong~

....

Can we just trust me one of the few times I say I have a meta read from now on?

Like I seriously almost never do that

No. No I will not.

[Bell]

I mean I'll take it but I'm surprised to get not 1 but 3 immediate votes. Did powereliminating the bodyguard just not move the needle at all? How strongly were Pooky/Titus townreading me anyway?

Like I'm just surprised no one so far has considered Bell instead

You're more deliberative than I am is my guess.
Also, while I'm obvious town to a subset of players, there are players here that don't think that.

I’d be screaming a hell of a lot harder if Bell was flashvoted.

Bell would be like almost literally anyone else.

Especially after that flash wagon.

We should look at the Cakez wagon for scum today please

*snort* you never change. That's why you're kind of easy to read. But I guess I'll find out if that's true or not.

[Bell]

I dunno, why are you capitalizing on their flip to control people's focus, set an agenda and try to push at me more?

Also, no. Nobody cared what you thought of DGB because it wasn't a serious defense meant to delay votes. That's a misrepresentation of everyone's positions. I doubt a single person voted or unvoted or factored in your opinion when they made their votes.

[Bell]

1. How about people focus wherever they like and go where their nose leads them and make reads and such rather than asking for people to focus on a subset of players. If you have a case or an opinion that goes beyond 1 must have voted X and 2 voted Y because I am assuming such. Than say so.
2. Is this a joke?
You can't seriously think a meta read would cause a single person to hesitate without a further more practical defense or argument. There needs to be a level of persuasion beyond it. There was none. You said DGB was town because they acted like they'd always acted. Why would people trust that? Why would you expect people to trust you or your opinion?

Likewise there were 15 hours left so someone needed to be eliminated in that time frame. I doubt anyone set their clocks to your V/LA schedule so that they could sneak one by you. People keep just assuming it's just you being you. But I find your thinking incredibly unlikely to come from a genuine place.

[Bell]

Those are all fine. There's enough there to recognize that Prism is town in my opinion. It's not a difficult read.
My genuine opinion is that Prism should remain untouchable and that scum are going to need to use a night action or they can continue to complain about them in thread.
If Prism makes it to elo kill them you have my approval. But no sooner.

[Bell]

1. How about people focus wherever they like and go where their nose leads them and make reads and such rather than asking for people to focus on a subset of players. If you have a case or an opinion that goes beyond 1 must have voted X and 2 voted Y because I am assuming such. Than say so.
2. Is this a joke?
You can't seriously think a meta read would cause a single person to hesitate without a further more practical defense or argument. There needs to be a level of persuasion beyond it. There was none. You said DGB was town because they acted like they'd always acted. Why would people trust that? Why would you expect people to trust you or your opinion?

Likewise there were 15 hours left so someone needed to be eliminated in that time frame. I doubt anyone set their clocks to your V/LA schedule so that they could sneak one by you. People keep just assuming it's just you being you. But I find your thinking incredibly unlikely to come from a genuine place.

I agree time is a factor. 24 hours and tons of pages left is plenty of time for a flash wagon.

And yes, considering a case was never made about DGB being scum only that its predecessor lurked I would expect someone saying it is town would hold some weight. I expect people to trust my opinion because
A> I provide a factual basis to what I am saying
B> While I have been stubborn in my opinions I have been cooperating with my townreads.
C> Because when it’s something I rarely do it should be memorable.
How many times have I presented meta as my argument?

1.I made two arguments that I believed made it likely DGB was scum. I was wrong on both counts. But the cases are there for your or anyone else's use.
2. You're very reasonable.
3. This is like saying that If I said Prism was scum because there was a banana on my office desk this morning and because I rarely use banana based reasoning that people should have listened.

[Bell]

Why do we have to hand off the artifact in the first few hours of the day?

What are the benefits for town to slow this process down?

Mathblade: I am just gunna shake my head from side to side. Even really large meta cases with multiple links and indepth explanations on the differences and similarities would only factor in slightly to any read I had. A single link and a statement does not even properly account for your confidence in your read of them, let alone possess persuasive power.

[Bell]

UNVOTE:

That's fine.

Btw, post morning mod should have an announcement.
Don't acknowledge that I just said this plz and ty.

[Bell]

@Spiffeh, use it on Bork or MB or it's a scum claim.

Also, I don't know exactly what it does, but I have a guess.

Everybody else ignore this ty, ty.

[Bell]

viewtopic.php?p=12522750#p12522750

^^

@Pooky — Town Bell, start the ISO from here
Commonly and frequently mentions multiple slots even while tunneling.
He hasn’t here.
I don’t see how this is town bell.
It could be, but it’s a major deviation.

Maybe you should look at some of my scum games instead of linking to a single town game of mine and comparing it. You're not really listening to Pooky if you aren't actually going to look to see what he's talking about. You're just playing lip service or going for the appearance of listening.

@BM: I need more from you. I understand you aren't feelin' it but but this isn't enough to stop a spiralling read.

[Bell]

Seriously are you going to ever like state reads on anyone else Bell?

Do that read wall from Boonskiies?

Anything remotely Townie?

Read my posts. I have zero interest in arguing whether I've been giving reads or not when anyone that iso's me is going to realize I have.

VOTE: Borkjerfkin

[Bell]

I would strongly recommend waiting for him to show up before using anything/directing Spiffeh to use anything on Bork.

I don't see an incentive to out the relative power or any specifics of the scarf at this time.

I would greatly prefer he use it on Mathblade anyway.

Pedit: Sircakez, bro.

[Bell]

Yo, Spiffeh.
The thing. Did you get it?

[Bell]

Thanks.

I've been following along on the Bork/Tammy posts. I'm mostly just waffling back and forth. Tammy take on Titus is like a remix of other people's opinions from day 1. So a reread is certainly appropriate. Not sure if Bork is asking Titus questions as fake hunting or not.

My reads of Dunn and BM are deteriorating rapidly. Titus is hard to read this game for me, but I continue to think that scum are primarily pushing at her.

I would like to point out that LLD and Sangres have a commonality in reads, but I'm sure everyone is aware.

[Bell]

I need to reread Titus here. I only read the parts where you guys interacted and read each other to acquaint myself with what that is like. Tit

us is not really playing how I've seen her play as scum or town.

There's a part of me that thinks she'd have more fire as scum whereas here she almost seems ready to roll over and be eliminated.

Please substantiate your confidence in Tammy and KTT.
That doesn’t begin and end with it being a good idea to TR the two people who aren’t voting anybody.

Sir Cakez I’ve seen flashes of townieness, but that’s it. He’s also been a source of shade and been attacked in turn. Some of his scum instincts seem to have flipped. For example he would probably as scum push quiet to be the elimination this dp but is instead doing sort of the opposite. Titus’s attack on that, I’m not sure where she’s coming from.

Titus

: no fucking clue. Consider me disordered and discombobulated in regards to her play this game. I agreed with your take that Titus is not playing like scum or town her until you asked and then it got more complicated and muddled.

@Mala, You're pretty right. I don't care.

@Math, Your post asking me to do things isn't in good faith. I just spent hours catching up and your reply is that I'm not "doing things". I asked for your thoughts on Mastina's prism case and I got three posts of nonsense. If you were reading my posts with any eye to listen, you'd know why I am suspecting Cakez at least partially. There was zero follow up to his request for Prism's meta.

I didn't directly say this in my catchup but I feel your townread on Cakez, like your other reads, is largely political. There's no nuance in your reads. I don't really feel like engaging you when doing so will generate 3 posts to my every one and flood out the thread.

Are you okay? Like this doesn’t match town you or scum you.

You’re not getting my reads right in your post (esp Cakez who is a scumread). You did catch up yes but you’re usually more active. Not only that but you on one hand are saying if you knew there was a post limit you wouldn’t have signed up yet are railing on me for posting a lot despite having been under attack all day. You’re incoherent at best.

I am not sure what you’re meaning by nuance but I think stopping tons of TvT fights while trying to keep things together requires nuance and coordination. You literally said “Hey you’re not working with your town reads” about the Dunn vote. It’s like you’re all over the map.

Normally you’re way more driven than this and gung-ho. Your play reminds me of newb scum and that is not you.

Though it should be noted that on math specifically he was pretty much on a constant "titus is scum" Before shifting to Cakez > Titus in terms of kills. After that particular take, I'm not sure why his read of Titus seemed so mobile, sometimes he was lurk warm, other times seemed convinced, bu he has mostly been in that range all game. So maybe not that much variance.

[Bell]

They were both scum reading/pointing the finger at Bork before they got nked. I'm genuinely surprised you hadn't noticed Math. /:
There are obvious issues with that take though. Those kills generally make sense even in a non-scum-bork world. It could have been a 2 birds one stone action or it could be unrelated. There are a bunch of people that have motivation to kill Sangres/LLD/KTT.

[Bell]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

A cogent point. I still think scum are pushing her wagon though. The only one really interested in diverting it is me and to a lesser extent you through the alternative Sircakez recommendation. It's simply difficult to read Titus given the factors I'm aware of.

Pedit: I mean, one of the goals of scum is to have their posting look good on the surface. /:

@Tammy, That's a lot of questions. My meaning was that your read does not appear to have progressed. I am aware of your tendency to waffle.

[Bell]

Item was distributed at end of morning. There are other ways to distribute artifacts. The idea that spiffeh and I are scum together and gambiting is itself just a ploy to get more information out of people probably.. or he’s misplaying. Either wouldn’t shock me.
I just got off from work so I don’t have the full context behind what is being said.

[Bell]

Yeah it just looks like he’s rules lawyering because he can’t get momentum otherwise and this is a pretty good point of leverage/opportunity.

[Bell]

I received it at the start of Afternoon today.

Upon receipt, a player may choose to interact with one Artifact in their possession per game phase. They may either use it or transfer the selected Artifact to another player rather than using it. This counts as the player's Artifact interaction for the night.

Transfers may only be performed during the Night phase.

If transferred, the recipient will be informed of the Artifact's Power and Negative Effect. They may also use any non-Artifact actions they have from their role, including the factional kill if Mafia. There is a limit of one non-factional kill role action used per player per phase.

Uhm how Spiffeh?

<< this here

This is pretty selective reading. It starts with “upon receipt,” which I won’t go into further since I’ve already revealed enough. In general no, you’re wrong.

[Bell]

I think it is because the item in question was in limbo.
It was pretty clearly talking about artifacts that you received through the selection process, not artifacts in general. You’re being fairly anti-town. Not that I needed more evidence of that. ~

[Bell]

Pretty much reading the rules more closely you will see that there are phases to artifacts.
There is the default state and then there is the received state which reveals the full information of the artifact. The rules discussed only refer to received artifacts not default state artifacts.

And that’s the last thing I have to say about that I think.

[Bell]

who is bell?

MB.

[Bell]

Lol. Can we please eliminate math blade.

[Bell]

VOTE: borkjerfkin

honestly fuck off.

^Going to assume this is out of scum range

Bork can be fairly mean scum. Also yeah, town clearing him for that, from you, given how you disagreed with me on superbowl for similar ethical reasons is odd to me.

@Titus: I still think Spiffeh is town he hasn't done anything that has dissuaded me from that opinion. If he's scum here this is simply his strongest scum game to date in my experience. He didn't seem to have much interest in growing or improving in scum and this is quite a drastic step up.

[Bell]

I would possibly swap Titus with Cakez or Dunn but Bell/Spiffeh are pretty much lock scum to me unless and until Bell flips town.

Which at that point I go “whatever op is meaningless”

This can't be real. Multiple people have provided explanations and since he can't understand them he's just ignoring them and genuinely thinks Spiffeh and I are scum partners and lying together in some kind of elaborate scum gambit.

Like I get that he's been running this too dense to be scum shtick for a while, but this is bordering on satire.

[Bell]

....

VOTE: Mathblade

This is just an act. I refuse to believe otherwise.
Please toxic 1v1 me and then die and flip scum. If you don’t flip scum I will assume the mod is lying and this game is bastard.

[Bell]

He’s just fake tunneling.

[Bell]

Going by this argument you should be happy because you found two scum and once you flip we’ll quickly follow. /: I

[Bell]

Going by this argument you should be happy because you found two scum and once you flip we’ll quickly follow. /: I

I am not happy because this is never how it works.

It’s almost like your density increases and decreases depending on what serves you best!

[Bell]

VOTE: Bork

More Bork votes.

Yeah, I’m going to assume this page was a collectively have a stroke page.
In which saying fuck you is an auto clear for sircakez and dunnstral which is so below their level of skill that I don’t even know if this is the real life. Or if it’s just fantasy and Mathblade is just probably trying to distract me again.

[Bell]

Also Titus you were in that game and talked to me so why are you saying you don’t remember me being in that game?wasn’t that like a month ago?

Also, for more selective Mathblade positioning please note that he originally said I was 3rd party in that game and not playing like town, but now puts it up as the epitome of my town game which is fair because, rly, I insisted I was playing my town game there.
But this is also my town game so I’m just like. Meh.

[Bell]

@Everyone who would vote Mathblade? I'm doing a vote check.
As I would like to force that one through today if possible.

[Bell]

i mean i would've deferred again if DGB flipped red but I'm not deferring after it failed spectacularly yesterday

You would have kept deferring if LLD was alive.

[Bell]

Who is against eliminating Cake besides Titus?

[Bell]

I’m not checked out. Was just busy with my job and I don’t have much to say.
I want Mathblade, I want Bork.

I want to see more from those players I’m having trouble sorting into obvious town.
Tammy, cakes, Dunn, BM, GI, Titus.

But I don’t really think outside of cakez I’m going to be wowed by anything.
Dunnstrall occasionally has those moments but so far, nope.

[Bell]

what do you want to see Bell? I feel like I don't have anything to add here. That's why I'm telling people to make a wagon so we can actually analyze something and pressure someone.

A clear thought process and self-meta as to why you can't be scum this game and are in fact, town.

[Bell]

I don't care what other people think. If I think you're town for your self-meta, I'll defend you.

[Bell]

Like, here's a fun exercise for the table. Answering publicly is absolutely encouraged.

Who is a player you have changed your mind on, or at least had your view of challenged in a way that made you

actually doubt the read

\, in the last calendar week, and why?

Flashs of paranoia on Pooky, I've almost voted Cakez like 3 separate times. Consistently considered just executing the least active until morale improves, but there are simply too many people just kind of coasting to make that a real strategy.
I'm mainly annoyed.

[Bell]

*stares at Bork*

Is mathblade your muffin.

[Bell]

bork is not town

<3 Bork

Is he bussing then?

[Bell]

How did math almost get mod killed for challenging the rules in his scum PT/Whining about them?
At worst we would have proceeded with the game knowing that the game was unintentionally bastard and if anyone wanted to replace out, nobody was stopping them.

He was not shaming mental illness math. /: Accusing someone of being insane is not the same as accusing them of being in psychosis or having a symptom of being delusion or...Well this isn't an important discussion for this game so nevermind.

[Bell]

Please stop putting mathblade in the too crazy to be scum bucket. smh, smh.

Hi Notscience.
Are you regretting repping into a scum slot or are you my bud this game?

[Bell]

How did math almost get mod killed for challenging the rules in his scum PT/Whining about them?
At worst we would have proceeded with the game knowing that the game was unintentionally bastard and if anyone wanted to replace out, nobody was stopping them.

He was not shaming mental illness math. /: Accusing someone of being insane is not the same as accusing them of being in psychosis or having a symptom of being delusion or...Well this isn't an important discussion for this game so nevermind.

Can we like not?

I get it.

If you’re town you’re hopelessly tunnelled on me.
If you’re scum you need me gone because my PoE is scum.

Can we like just move on?

I am trying to respect people who say you’re town but you’re really making it hard.

As an Aspie I take rules literally. I really really don’t want to go down here right now but you’re pissing me off.

If you could refrain from mixing the game discussion with the non-game discussion. I would appreciate it. I can't engage with this when it's a mixture of personal argument and in game discrediting.

[Bell]

I'm arguing that this game being interrupted is not clearly indicative of your alignment as you are very critical of set ups as scum too based on our previous games together.
I am not arguing that you are scum for it, but I am arguing that you aren't town for it.

[Bell]

\o

Also in case people aren’t to to date on my posting schedule tomorrow’s my long work day I won’t be around much

Bell who else is town?

Prism, spiffeh, maybe Pooky. He’s borderline for me. I’ve been stuck on expanding my town reads past that. Polly is the newest almost addition.

Spiffeh’s overall quality of posting is better than it was in the last 3 scum games I was in with him.
Pooky because he broke out the boxes and I haven’t seen scum pooky break out the boxes.
He also proactively town binned me which he has refrained from doing in his (one other scum game of me). Plus a lot of other stuff really. But his alignment is kinda tied up with sircakez being scum.I guess I’m just conflicted enough to put him at borderine obv town
This was a phone post.

[Bell]

The short version is that Pooky thinks Sircakez is scum since about 100-200 posts into the game and has relentlessly poked at him since.
Sircakez,when accused of such, took umbridge with the stain upon his honor and demanded a fight to the death.

They've been going at it ever since rly.
We eliminated scum mastina day 1, so some think Pooky might have been counter wagoning in earnest and hard pushed to save Mastina. As he was unleashed around that time and made a super push on Sircakez that reminded people of Tenet when he snowed Flavorleaf using meta from a recent other game with him as cover (I say snowed, but I really just mean managed to push that wagon through with the help of his team) though the context is different here I think. But frankly I don't remember.

I'm not sure, if either of them are scum, but between the two I do think Pooky is more townie.

[Bell]

[Bell]

Do you think NS ironically food tell'd.

[Bell]

You're more comfortable calling a dude who has made like 4 posts scum than Cakez who has 356 posts?

[Bell]

Bell where are you at with Dunnstral right now?

Null read. This is the least active and most disinterested I've seen him be. I'm not sure if that makes him scum or not. I don't know what his scum game looks like.

@Bork, sure.

[Bell]

I was mostly posturing at Bork to see if I could shake him. I too find NS's first post scummy, but I also know that there's a genuine temptation to dogpile because there's blood in the water and I'm not sure NS can or will be able to get out of it.

Won't lie, I get this vague bussy feeling.

Also, I'm happy you're feeling better Bork. I heard you were sick or something.

[Bell]

Bell where are you at with Dunnstral right now?

Null read. This is the least active and most disinterested I've seen him be. I'm not sure if that makes him scum or not. I don't know what his scum game looks like.

@Bork, sure.

I'm saving posts /s

Are you fucking with me?

[Bell]

Circular reasoning is when your premises need backing just as much as your conclusion does.

For example, if you say that someone is scum (conclusion) because their word count or number of posts has reached 666 (the premise that everyone that makes 666 posts or has a post that has exactly 666 letters in it is scum) then you've created a circular argument because both your conclusion that everyone that makes those types of posts is scum is not particularly likely to be accurate and so any conclusion or comparison drawing from it is also lacking persuasiveness.

"Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion"
Wikipedia~ It can also just mean that you start with the conclusion and then state the premises that apply to when you reached the conclusion.

[Bell]

In this case the circular reasoning he's mentioning looks like this:
Bork is scum(conclusion) because scum are very defensive (premise).

[Bell]

VOTE: Sirvcakez

[Bell]

I'm sheeping you once Pooky try to make it memorable by being right. LMK if you change your mind.
I don't disagree strongly with the takes of other players in regards to cakez. Mostly, I'm just confused at all the bussing.

[Bell]

We could just try really hard to discuss it and hope we do a better job, lol.

[Bell]

@Pooky, would you be willing to do bork today and cakez tomorrow?

[Bell]

what if cakez shoots me tonight and I don't get the sweet joy of eliminating him?

have you thought about that Bell?

No, I haven't.

PURE AS FRESHLY FALLEN SNOW ON A WINTERS EVE


ps notty/bork are the last 2 bad guys probly

If Cakez flips red and you die, you have my word I will tunnel Bork.

These conditionals and associatives still weird me out when anyone does them.

I don't get the discred on titus from Pooky, it's pretty common for her to make absolute statements like that. I will note my first game with Titus was FGO and she was fake tunneling that game. So Iknow she can play up being dense. But it's hard to say.
I genuinely think Dunnsrall is off this game a this point. I feels like he's intentionally holding back.

[Bell]

How are your opinions coming along NS?

[Bell]

How are your opinions coming along NS?

Did you miss my catch-up wall with readslist

I prob won’t read day 2/early 3 until at least Thursday but my day one reviews are usually pretty strong so I’m sitting pretty

Who do you want to talk about?

I saw it.

@Mod request a day or two extension for our replacement to catch up.

[Bell]

Bell I’ve been here for 2 days and can tell the game is stagnating. I’m not playing the extension game it’ll just make it worse.

You know my day one revisits are strong, and I’m willing to roll with it for now and reread whenever I get time.

Sure.

Can someone hammer?

[Bell]

GG.

Sorry Math, DGB. I misread you both.

I have no redactions if you want to release my notes PT, if not that's fine too.

[Bell]

Happy scumday Bork.

[Bell]

We can have that convo Math.
Last day of vacation tomorrow.

Yup, Pooky had good reads.

[Bell]

@Spiffeh.

[Bell]

Oh and sorry for outting myself as mason. I fucked up there. I also misread a negative ability effect and thought me handing the knife to Spiffeh would result in an immediate announcement instead of an announcement next day phase.

[Bell]

I'm really happy I wound up connecting so much with Bell this game, glad I found a new dad who could teach me to smoke meats, and yes, Day 1 was quite fun ffery and I was sad to see you dead.

Same, I'm glad we could get along.
I do wanna make clear that I'm pretty distant with players until I think they're town. I just keep people at arm's length until I feel like I have a solid read on them.


@Spiffeh: BM was a miller. When he killed KTT he became a miller as the downside of the shot was that if he hit town he would become a miller with a positive guncheck if there was a gunsmith. He claimed the negative aspect of his role as his full role instead. He pretty much just omitted that he was a VT with an 1-shot artifact that he used night 1.

[Bell]

Ah ok I can't read, thanks

Same.

[Bell]

@Mathblade, can you explain which of your posts were reaction tests or meant to gauge people's responses?

[Bell]

*ahem*

*Do I feel angry?*
If yes,
*Why do I feel angry?*
*Is my anger telling me something?*
*How should I respond to my anger?*
*what should I do with my anger?*
*Is this something I can control or do something about?*
If yes,
*How do I want to go about it?*
*implement*

Something, something communication is key, something something.

I think you did the rightt hing by opening up and telling me that my play was bothering you Prism. Sure, it alarmed me. But ultimately it was something I was more than happy to accommodate because I want everyone to have a good time if I can get away with it. I'm not sure if there was a better way to express it.

As for others, probably you could have approached some others better (LLD specifically), but master of interpersonal navigation in the sociopolitical field of mafia, I am not.

[Bell]

I have a temper too. Coping strategies can be helpful in life *and* in mafia.

Of course you should ask yourself why you're getting mad more than usual. You seem to have an idea about yourself and your own thinking though.

Sorry for dispensing advice. I don't think it reflects badly on you though. Or at least, it didn't reflect too badly to me.

[Bell]

Bell i think you in particular are cognizant of my occasional venom i bring out when playing scum

And while its a tool that works some of the time its not the person i wanna be

Yup. I tend to be meaner as scum too.

[Bell]

I'm not that adorable, but you have the right idea.

[Bell]

Yes, I am a veritable Mafia God.

[Bell]

Yeah, conflict is inevitable but town or scum can make it work for them.
I could have been a real shithead this game, but for the most part I wasn't and didn't just say the first thing that came to mind in response to what someone else was saying.

Reflexive defensiveness is hard to navigate around, but you can temper it. There were multiple times when people made a choice not to escalate or really take the gloves off and I think it worked to town's advantage for the most part.

[Bell]

I liked reading the scum PT and KTT PT.
I think it probably would have gone better for the scum team if Mastina and GI weren't so busy and their survival was prioritized.
I don't really think I'm a respect junkie, I'm a town read junkie.